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  • From: David Kummerow <farmerjoeblo AT hotmail.com>
  • To: b-hebrew AT lists.ibiblio.org
  • Subject: Re: [b-hebrew] b-hebrew Uncancellable meaning and Hebrew verbs
  • Date: Thu, 25 Jun 2009 10:47:53 +1000

Hi Karl,

I disagree. "Plod" is just a case in point. For me, "plod" can in fact be used even of a "quick" action, it is entirely acceptable. So the question is: What is the uncancellable meaning of "plod" in such a dialect, or is the meaning of "plod" solely pragmatic in such a case? In that case, does "plod" not have any semantics?

I think it's better to think of semantics in terms of frames as per Fillmore etc. This way, we may locate "slow" as part of the semantics of "plod", but not have to say at the same time that such semantics cannot be cancelled.

The fact remains, though, that for a methodology which equates semantics to uncancellable meaning at the end of the day has to reckon with such examples which challenge the notion of "uncancellable meaning". Rolf has yet to interact in any way with the copious examples of such aspects of language which challenge his assumption. What this means is that the principal of uncancellable meaning needs to be established on a case by case basis if it is going to be established at all, ie it cannot be extrapolated cross-constructionally or across languages. Now, Olson may have established that there is an uncancellable meaning to some English verb forms, but that says nothing about BH, nor that the ultimate principal of "uncancellable meaning" has been established.

Regards,
David Kummerow.


-----Original Message-----
From: b-hebrew-bounces AT lists.ibiblio.org
[mailto:b-hebrew-bounces AT lists.ibiblio.org] On Behalf Of K Randolph
Sent: Wednesday, June 24, 2009 10:32 AM
To: B-Hebrew
Subject: Re: [b-hebrew] b-hebrew Uncancellable meaning and Hebrew verbs

David:

It appears to me that you are reading ideas into “uncancellable
meaning” that Rolf never intended.

The
so-called uncancellable meaning of "plod" can in some contexts be
cancelled, as in the this sentence which is acceptable in my English
dialect:

(1) I plodded quickly through the mud to the garage.

I don’t know which dialect of English you refer to, but Rolf never
intended that “uncancellable meaning” would mean that individual words
would have exactly the same meanings across dialectal and language
boundaries, nor would the meanings remain unchanged over time. Just
that within a particular language at a particular time words may have
meanings that are uncancellable.

Now in the variety of English that I grew up learning, namely that of
the upper Midwest of the United States, “plod” has exactly the same
meaning as listed in the dictionary that came with my computer,
namely, “Plod [verb] [intrans.] walk doggedly and slowly with heavy
steps, • work slowly and perseveringly at a dull task [noun] a slow,
heavy walk • the sound of a heavy, dull tread; a thud.” That makes
your example above an oxymoron outside of your dialect. Therefore,
within the variety of English that I grew up speaking, namely upper
Midwest U.S., “plod” does have an uncancellable meaning referring to
slowly. (As a non-native speaker of English, Rolf would have to refer
to dictionary meanings more than would native speakers, hence you need
to respond to him according to dictionary listings instead of your
dialectal understandings.)

This is not a defense of Rolf’s dissertation, as I have not read it,
so I don’t know if Rolf has been correct in his attribution of
uncancellable meanings to Biblical Hebrew terms. But it certainly
appears that your attack on his work is based on an incorrect
understanding of the idea of uncancellable meaning.

Karl W. Randolph.





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