Biblical Hebrew Forum

[David Kummerow <farmerjoeblo AT hotmail.com>]

Hi Karl,

I disagree. "Plod" is just a case in point. For me, "plod" can in fact 
be used even of a "quick" action, it is entirely acceptable. So the 
question is: What is the uncancellable meaning of "plod" in such a 
dialect, or is the meaning of "plod" solely pragmatic in such a case? In 
that case, does "plod" not have any semantics?

I think it's better to think of semantics in terms of frames as per 
Fillmore etc. This way, we may locate "slow" as part of the semantics of 
"plod", but not have to say at the same time that such semantics cannot 
be cancelled.

The fact remains, though, that for a methodology which equates semantics 
to uncancellable meaning at the end of the day has to reckon with such 
examples which challenge the notion of "uncancellable meaning". Rolf has 
yet to interact in any way with the copious examples of such aspects of 
language which challenge his assumption. What this means is that the 
principal of uncancellable meaning needs to be established on a case by 
case basis if it is going to be established at all, ie it cannot be 
extrapolated cross-constructionally or across languages. Now, Olson may 
have established that there is an uncancellable meaning to some English 
verb forms, but that says nothing about BH, nor that the ultimate 
principal of "uncancellable meaning" has been established.

Regards,
David Kummerow.

> -----Original Message-----
> From: b-hebrew-bounces AT lists.ibiblio.org 
> [mailto:b-hebrew-bounces AT lists.ibiblio.org] On Behalf Of K Randolph
> Sent: Wednesday, June 24, 2009 10:32 AM
> To: B-Hebrew
> Subject: Re: [b-hebrew] b-hebrew Uncancellable meaning and Hebrew verbs
>
> David:
>
> It appears to me that you are reading ideas into “uncancellable
> meaning” that Rolf never intended.
>
> > The
> > so-called uncancellable meaning of "plod" can in some contexts be
> > cancelled, as in the this sentence which is acceptable in my English
> > dialect:
> >
> > (1) I plodded quickly through the mud to the garage.
> I don’t know which dialect of English you refer to, but Rolf never
> intended that “uncancellable meaning” would mean that individual words
> would have exactly the same meanings across dialectal and language
> boundaries, nor would the meanings remain unchanged over time. Just
> that within a particular language at a particular time words may have
> meanings that are uncancellable.
>
> Now in the variety of English that I grew up learning, namely that of
> the upper Midwest of the United States, “plod” has exactly the same
> meaning as listed in the dictionary that came with my computer,
> namely, “Plod [verb] [intrans.] walk doggedly and slowly with heavy
> steps, • work slowly and perseveringly at a dull task [noun] a slow,
> heavy walk • the sound of a heavy, dull tread; a thud.” That makes
> your example above an oxymoron outside of your dialect. Therefore,
> within the variety of English that I grew up speaking, namely upper
> Midwest U.S., “plod” does have an uncancellable meaning referring to
> slowly. (As a non-native speaker of English, Rolf would have to refer
> to dictionary meanings more than would native speakers, hence you need
> to respond to him according to dictionary listings instead of your
> dialectal understandings.)
>
> This is not a defense of Rolf’s dissertation, as I have not read it,
> so I don’t know if Rolf has been correct in his attribution of
> uncancellable meanings to Biblical Hebrew terms. But it certainly
> appears that your attack on his work is based on an incorrect
> understanding of the idea of uncancellable meaning.
>
> Karl W. Randolph.