Biblical Hebrew Forum

["Bryant J. Williams III" <bjwvmw AT com-pair.net>]

Dear Rolf,

The examples you give in 1-3 and 5-7 use the following time indicators:
yesterday - examples 1 & 3;  adverb
tomorrow - examples 3 & 7; adverb
from now until 4 - example 3; prepositional phrase with the adverb "now;" 
until
is a preposition
as I am speaking - example 6; "as" is an adverb, pronoun or preposition
depending on context; in this case, preposition

In English, work is either a noun or transitive verb. As a verb, works is
present tense. It can also be used as slang word "give him the works."
Ran is a participle from "run" which can be transitive or intransitive 
depending
on the context.

You did not answer my question regarding the following Hebrew words:

Bara'
Yatsar
Asah'
Hayah
Davar

Do any of the above Hebrew verbs have "uncancellable meaning?" If so, which 
ones
with examples would fit the criteria of "uncancellable meaning?"

Now, what I am asking is for you to give examples of Hebrew verbs where
"uncancellable meaning" is inherent in the verb itself. These examples would
have to have the same meaning throughout various literary genres for your 
theory
to work.

Rev. Bryant J. Williams III
----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Rolf Furuli" <furuli AT online.no>
To: <b-hebrew AT lists.ibiblio.org>
Sent: Wednesday, June 24, 2009 1:05 AM
Subject: Re: [b-hebrew] b-hebrew Uncancellable meaning and Hebrew verbs


> Dear Bryant,
>
> I am not sure what you are asking for. In English we have the
> participle that can describe actions, as the verb does. The point I
> tried to convey was that in English the participle has no intrinsic
> tense, but still it can have past, present, and future reference.
> This shows there can be a difference between tense and temporal
> reference, We can do the same with English present. I take the
> example from Broman Olsen who was a native speaker and a linguist. On
> the basis of 1)-4) Broman Olsen concludes that English present is not
> a tense. And on the basis of 5) -7) she concludes that English simple
> past is past tense.
>
> 1) So Paul works all yesterday to finish.  (Past)
>
> 2) Paul works from now until 4. (present)
>
> 3) Paul works tomorrow.  (future)
>
> 4) Paul works (Omni-temporal)
>
> 5) Matt ran yesterday.
>
> 6) #Matt ran as I am speaking.
>
> 7) #Matt ran tomorrow.
>
> Please help me understand what you are asking for.
>
>
> Best regards.
>
> Rolf Furuli
> University of Oslo
>
>
>
> >Dear Rolf,
> >
> >[Rolf Said]
> >Here I will just say that the comments above are so silly that I am
> >completely breathless.
> >No linguist will deny that there is a difference between past
> >reference and past tense. The English participle has present
> >reference in 1), past reference in 2), and future reference in 3).
> >But the past reference in 2) does not indicate that the participle
> >expresses past tense; it is not a tense.
> >
> >
> >1) Right now Rita is walking.
> >
> >2) Yesterday Rita was walking.
> >
> >3) Tomorrow Rita will be walking.
> >
> >[Bryant]
> >"Walking" is an English participle. All you have done is add a
> >participle with a
> >verb of "to be" (walking + to be) with a time reference noun. The
> >example number
> >2 has "yesterday + was (to be verb)" qualifying as to when in the
> >past that the
> >action of the subject occured. Without the qualifying time reference noun 
> >all
> >one would know is that "Rita was walking."
> >
> >So please indicate from BH examples in the Tanach the following verbs:
> >
> >Bara'
> >Yatsar
> >Asah'
> >Hayah
> >Davar
> >
> >Also please indicate the source as narrative, poetry, prophetic, etc., 
> >genre.
> >
> >If what you say is correct, then would it apply in all of the different
genres
> >found in the Tanach? If not, why?
> >
> >Rev. Bryant J. Williams III
>
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