From list at ginda.us Fri Nov 20 13:37:35 2020 From: list at ginda.us (Ginda Fisher) Date: Fri, 20 Nov 2020 13:37:35 -0500 Subject: [nafex] Ashmeads Kernal grafting material Message-ID: I know this list is mostly dead, but it still seems like a good place to ask? Could anyone sell me one or two sticks of Ashmeads Kernal this winter, to graft next spring? Or know a place I could buy it? Thanks, Ginda Fisher Eastern MA, zone 6 From ehilborn at mebtel.net Fri Nov 20 21:47:27 2020 From: ehilborn at mebtel.net (Elizabeth Hilborn) Date: Fri, 20 Nov 2020 21:47:27 -0500 Subject: [nafex] Ashmeads Kernal grafting material In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Hi Ginda, David Vernon at Century Farms Orchards has some. Contact info on: www.centuryfarmorchards.com On 11/20/2020 1:37 PM, Ginda Fisher wrote: > I know this list is mostly dead, but it still seems like a good place to ask? Could anyone sell me one or two sticks of Ashmeads Kernal this winter, to graft next spring? Or know a place I could buy it? > > Thanks, > Ginda Fisher > Eastern MA, zone 6 > __________________ > nafex mailing list > nafex at lists.ibiblio.org > Northamerican Allied Fruit Experimenters > subscribe/unsubscribe|user config|list info: > https://lists.ibiblio.org/mailman/listinfo/nafex -- Elizabeth Hilborn, DVM Bee Well Mobile Veterinary Services, PLLC beewellvet.com From lfljvenaura at gmail.com Sat Nov 21 00:40:35 2020 From: lfljvenaura at gmail.com (Lawrence London) Date: Fri, 20 Nov 2020 21:40:35 -0800 Subject: [nafex] This nafex list In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: This list still works, as before. Is there any way to revive it....again? Is it worth it? Of course. Facebook gets worse and worse and worse..my feed is approaching 50% commercial ads. Lists that use email are the best there are. Groups.io is excellent but limited and if the forum is large with lots of traffic with a long history can be expensive. ibiblio is free; doesn;t have the bells and whistles of groups. io but is as good where it counts. I am in tough with the ibiblio admins so can get done what I need to ensure the survival of this excellent forum. Does Nafex, Inc. use Facebook? Do they even have an in-house forum? Anyway, I am still here and will be for a long time. As long as I am around this list will be also. I am mostly interested in vegetables but always want to learn more about fruit growing. Lawrence London Chapel Hill, NC, 27516 919 448 8556 and hello to Ginda and Elizabeth! :-) -- Lawrence F. London, Jr. lfljvenaura at gmail.com Avant Geared walnut and oak serving and kitchen cutting boards https://sites.google.com/site/avantgeared https://www.instagram.com/avantgeared/?hl=en From spidra at gmail.com Sat Nov 21 00:51:50 2020 From: spidra at gmail.com (Megan Lynch) Date: Fri, 20 Nov 2020 21:51:50 -0800 Subject: [nafex] This nafex list In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: The only reason I haven't posted is because people said they were folding up the list. I think the list where it is is way better than FB could ever be. Megan From bartdalrymple at gmail.com Sat Nov 21 01:09:53 2020 From: bartdalrymple at gmail.com (Bart Dalrymple) Date: Sat, 21 Nov 2020 01:09:53 -0500 Subject: [nafex] nafex Digest, Vol 241, Issue 2 In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: I'm always lurking. On Sat, Nov 21, 2020, 12:54 AM wrote: > Send nafex mailing list submissions to > nafex at lists.ibiblio.org > > To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit > https://lists.ibiblio.org/mailman/listinfo/nafex > or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to > nafex-request at lists.ibiblio.org > > You can reach the person managing the list at > nafex-owner at lists.ibiblio.org > > When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific > than "Re: Contents of nafex digest..." > > > Today's Topics: > > 1. This nafex list (Lawrence London) > 2. Re: This nafex list (Megan Lynch) > > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > > Message: 1 > Date: Fri, 20 Nov 2020 21:40:35 -0800 > From: Lawrence London > To: mailing list at ibiblio - Northamerican Allied Fruit Experimenters > > Subject: [nafex] This nafex list > Message-ID: > dVO1Z2Uw7pm-aLw-0XqOoS6V5v3sZ8r4oFLevuuQ at mail.gmail.com> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" > > This list still works, as before. Is there any way to revive it....again? > Is it worth it? Of course. Facebook gets worse and worse and worse..my feed > is approaching 50% commercial ads. > Lists that use email are the best there are. Groups.io is excellent but > limited and if the forum is large with lots of traffic with a long history > can be expensive. ibiblio is free; > doesn;t have the bells and whistles of groups. io but is as good where it > counts. I am in tough with the ibiblio admins so can get done what I need > to ensure the survival of this excellent forum. > Does Nafex, Inc. use Facebook? Do they even have an in-house forum? > > Anyway, I am still here and will be for a long time. As long as I am around > this list will be also. > > I am mostly interested in vegetables but always want to learn more about > fruit growing. > > Lawrence London > Chapel Hill, NC, 27516 > 919 448 8556 > > and hello to Ginda and Elizabeth! :-) > > -- > Lawrence F. London, Jr. > lfljvenaura at gmail.com > Avant Geared > walnut and oak serving and kitchen cutting boards > https://sites.google.com/site/avantgeared > < > https://sites.google.com/site/avantgeared/avant-geared-products/woodworking > > > https://www.instagram.com/avantgeared/?hl=en > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 2 > Date: Fri, 20 Nov 2020 21:51:50 -0800 > From: Megan Lynch > To: mailing list at ibiblio - Northamerican Allied Fruit Experimenters > > Subject: Re: [nafex] This nafex list > Message-ID: > < > CACPFkVLH_fnCm4yuAvz9EYWFb+6yyth0cMzZ-ofTa9+-Nk7gFA at mail.gmail.com> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" > > The only reason I haven't posted is because people said they were folding > up the list. I think the list where it is is way better than FB could ever > be. > > Megan > > > ------------------------------ > > Subject: Digest Footer > > __________________ > nafex mailing list > nafex at lists.ibiblio.org > Northamerican Allied Fruit Experimenters > subscribe/unsubscribe|user config|list info: > https://lists.ibiblio.org/mailman/listinfo/nafex > > > ------------------------------ > > End of nafex Digest, Vol 241, Issue 2 > ************************************* > From lfljvenaura at gmail.com Sat Nov 21 04:44:51 2020 From: lfljvenaura at gmail.com (Lawrence London) Date: Sat, 21 Nov 2020 01:44:51 -0800 Subject: [nafex] This nafex list In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On Fri, Nov 20, 2020 at 9:52 PM Megan Lynch wrote: > The only reason I haven't posted is because people said they were folding > up the list. I think the list where it is is way better than FB could ever > be. > No, the list is here to stay, fully functional. Enjoy. LL > > Megan > __________________ > nafex mailing list > nafex at lists.ibiblio.org > Northamerican Allied Fruit Experimenters > subscribe/unsubscribe|user config|list info: > https://lists.ibiblio.org/mailman/listinfo/nafex > -- Lawrence F. London, Jr. lfljvenaura at gmail.com Avant Geared walnut and oak serving and kitchen cutting boards https://sites.google.com/site/avantgeared https://www.instagram.com/avantgeared/?hl=en From ehilborn at mebtel.net Sat Nov 21 06:47:23 2020 From: ehilborn at mebtel.net (Elizabeth Hilborn) Date: Sat, 21 Nov 2020 06:47:23 -0500 Subject: [nafex] This nafex list In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <2ea90771-cfa9-4e0f-47c4-a688a4e58cef@mebtel.net> Hi all, I enjoy the list. I tried FB, but am just not a fan of the platform.? I have wanted to post here this past summer with some pawpaw problems, but did not. I will do so in the near future and we can see the response. Thank you for keeping the NAFEX list flame aglow Lawrence! Elizabeth On 11/21/2020 12:40 AM, Lawrence London wrote: > This list still works, as before. Is there any way to revive it....again? > Is it worth it? Of course. Facebook gets worse and worse and worse..my feed > is approaching 50% commercial ads. > Lists that use email are the best there are. Groups.io is excellent but > limited and if the forum is large with lots of traffic with a long history > can be expensive. ibiblio is free; > doesn;t have the bells and whistles of groups. io but is as good where it > counts. I am in tough with the ibiblio admins so can get done what I need > to ensure the survival of this excellent forum. > Does Nafex, Inc. use Facebook? Do they even have an in-house forum? > > Anyway, I am still here and will be for a long time. As long as I am around > this list will be also. > > I am mostly interested in vegetables but always want to learn more about > fruit growing. > > Lawrence London > Chapel Hill, NC, 27516 > 919 448 8556 > > and hello to Ginda and Elizabeth! :-) > -- Elizabeth Hilborn, DVM Bee Well Mobile Veterinary Services, PLLC beewellvet.com From cgarriss at garriss.net Sat Nov 21 07:28:23 2020 From: cgarriss at garriss.net (Chris Garriss) Date: Sat, 21 Nov 2020 07:28:23 -0500 Subject: [nafex] This nafex list In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: I agree with Lawrence. I found that when NAFEX made the "decision" to go in a "more modern way" it became less and less useful in general. With the list it came to me once I was a member. I did not need to log into another app, getoads of unrelated crap, I could easily see what was of interest, what I could just skip over. Bells and whistles may be nice for some things. But I found them distracting. As far as I could tell the move to groups had a negative impact - less information, fewer people participating, more junk and unrelated info. There are some thing an old fashioned listserv does better than a new format. This list is one. I find it interesting that so much traffic has just evaporated. I think, at least in my case, NAFEX the organization became less important as it became more difficult to use. Perhaps the 20 to 30 year olds might disagree, but I did not really see them participating. So, I dropped my membership in NAFEX the organization, continue to monitor this list and hope for a come back. Stay well all. >From My Samsung S20 5G 919.357.0863 On Sat, Nov 21, 2020, 00:40 Lawrence London wrote: > This list still works, as before. Is there any way to revive it....again? > Is it worth it? Of course. Facebook gets worse and worse and worse..my feed > is approaching 50% commercial ads. > Lists that use email are the best there are. Groups.io is excellent but > limited and if the forum is large with lots of traffic with a long history > can be expensive. ibiblio is free; > doesn;t have the bells and whistles of groups. io but is as good where it > counts. I am in tough with the ibiblio admins so can get done what I need > to ensure the survival of this excellent forum. > Does Nafex, Inc. use Facebook? Do they even have an in-house forum? > > Anyway, I am still here and will be for a long time. As long as I am around > this list will be also. > > I am mostly interested in vegetables but always want to learn more about > fruit growing. > > Lawrence London > Chapel Hill, NC, 27516 > 919 448 8556 > > and hello to Ginda and Elizabeth! :-) > > -- > Lawrence F. London, Jr. > lfljvenaura at gmail.com > Avant Geared > walnut and oak serving and kitchen cutting boards > https://sites.google.com/site/avantgeared > < > https://sites.google.com/site/avantgeared/avant-geared-products/woodworking > > > https://www.instagram.com/avantgeared/?hl=en > __________________ > nafex mailing list > nafex at lists.ibiblio.org > Northamerican Allied Fruit Experimenters > subscribe/unsubscribe|user config|list info: > https://lists.ibiblio.org/mailman/listinfo/nafex > From jakuehn at verizon.net Sat Nov 21 08:40:07 2020 From: jakuehn at verizon.net (Jacquelyn Kuehn) Date: Sat, 21 Nov 2020 08:40:07 -0500 Subject: [nafex] nafex Digest, Vol 241, Issue 4 In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <1F69E44D-AB3C-436C-8957-064AC2AB91F4@verizon.net> Thanks, all! I like it! Jacquelyn Kuehn > On Nov 21, 2020, at 6:47 AM, nafex-request at lists.ibiblio.org wrote: > > ?Send nafex mailing list submissions to > nafex at lists.ibiblio.org > > To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit > https://lists.ibiblio.org/mailman/listinfo/nafex > or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to > nafex-request at lists.ibiblio.org > > You can reach the person managing the list at > nafex-owner at lists.ibiblio.org > > When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific > than "Re: Contents of nafex digest..." > > > Today's Topics: > > 1. Re: This nafex list (Lawrence London) > 2. Re: This nafex list (Elizabeth Hilborn) > > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > > Message: 1 > Date: Sat, 21 Nov 2020 01:44:51 -0800 > From: Lawrence London > To: mailing list at ibiblio - Northamerican Allied Fruit Experimenters > > Subject: Re: [nafex] This nafex list > Message-ID: > > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" > >> On Fri, Nov 20, 2020 at 9:52 PM Megan Lynch wrote: >> >> The only reason I haven't posted is because people said they were folding >> up the list. I think the list where it is is way better than FB could ever >> be. >> > > No, the list is here to stay, fully functional. > > Enjoy. > > LL > >> >> Megan >> __________________ >> nafex mailing list >> nafex at lists.ibiblio.org >> Northamerican Allied Fruit Experimenters >> subscribe/unsubscribe|user config|list info: >> https://lists.ibiblio.org/mailman/listinfo/nafex >> > > > -- > Lawrence F. London, Jr. > lfljvenaura at gmail.com > Avant Geared > walnut and oak serving and kitchen cutting boards > https://sites.google.com/site/avantgeared > > https://www.instagram.com/avantgeared/?hl=en > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 2 > Date: Sat, 21 Nov 2020 06:47:23 -0500 > From: Elizabeth Hilborn > To: nafex at lists.ibiblio.org > Subject: Re: [nafex] This nafex list > Message-ID: <2ea90771-cfa9-4e0f-47c4-a688a4e58cef at mebtel.net> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed > > Hi all, > > I enjoy the list. I tried FB, but am just not a fan of the platform.? I > have wanted to post here this past summer with some pawpaw problems, but > did not. I will do so in the near future and we can see the response. > > Thank you for keeping the NAFEX list flame aglow Lawrence! > > Elizabeth > >> On 11/21/2020 12:40 AM, Lawrence London wrote: >> This list still works, as before. Is there any way to revive it....again? >> Is it worth it? Of course. Facebook gets worse and worse and worse..my feed >> is approaching 50% commercial ads. >> Lists that use email are the best there are. Groups.io is excellent but >> limited and if the forum is large with lots of traffic with a long history >> can be expensive. ibiblio is free; >> doesn;t have the bells and whistles of groups. io but is as good where it >> counts. I am in tough with the ibiblio admins so can get done what I need >> to ensure the survival of this excellent forum. >> Does Nafex, Inc. use Facebook? Do they even have an in-house forum? >> >> Anyway, I am still here and will be for a long time. As long as I am around >> this list will be also. >> >> I am mostly interested in vegetables but always want to learn more about >> fruit growing. >> >> Lawrence London >> Chapel Hill, NC, 27516 >> 919 448 8556 >> >> and hello to Ginda and Elizabeth! :-) >> > > -- > Elizabeth Hilborn, DVM > Bee Well Mobile Veterinary Services, PLLC > beewellvet.com > > > > ------------------------------ > > Subject: Digest Footer > > __________________ > nafex mailing list > nafex at lists.ibiblio.org > Northamerican Allied Fruit Experimenters > subscribe/unsubscribe|user config|list info: > https://lists.ibiblio.org/mailman/listinfo/nafex > > > ------------------------------ > > End of nafex Digest, Vol 241, Issue 4 > ************************************* From jakuehn at verizon.net Sat Nov 21 08:43:56 2020 From: jakuehn at verizon.net (Jacquelyn Kuehn) Date: Sat, 21 Nov 2020 08:43:56 -0500 Subject: [nafex] Sweet Sixteen References: <1992E5CE-3EB3-4437-946B-3CE08781CB55.ref@verizon.net> Message-ID: <1992E5CE-3EB3-4437-946B-3CE08781CB55@verizon.net> So I?ll start with a sad story. My Sweet Sixteen apple, about 10 years old, was just starting to give wonderful crops of amazing apples. This spring, as it was laden with blossoms, we had a heavy frost. Some of the fruits developed anyway. Then the season became quite dry. By August, the tree shriveled up and died. Completely dead. After so long to have established its root system, is it possible the drought really was what killed it? Jacquelyn Kuehn > On Nov 21, 2020, at 7:28 AM, nafex-request at lists.ibiblio.org wrote: > > ?Send nafex mailing list submissions to > nafex at lists.ibiblio.org > > To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit > https://lists.ibiblio.org/mailman/listinfo/nafex > or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to > nafex-request at lists.ibiblio.org > > You can reach the person managing the list at > nafex-owner at lists.ibiblio.org > > When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific > than "Re: Contents of nafex digest..." > > > Today's Topics: > > 1. Re: This nafex list (Chris Garriss) > > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > > Message: 1 > Date: Sat, 21 Nov 2020 07:28:23 -0500 > From: Chris Garriss > To: mailing list at ibiblio - Northamerican Allied Fruit Experimenters > > Subject: Re: [nafex] This nafex list > Message-ID: > > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" > > I agree with Lawrence. I found that when NAFEX made the "decision" to go > in a "more modern way" it became less and less useful in general. > > With the list it came to me once I was a member. I did not need to log into > another app, getoads of unrelated crap, I could easily see what was of > interest, what I could just skip over. Bells and whistles may be nice for > some things. But I found them distracting. As far as I could tell the move > to groups had a negative impact - less information, fewer people > participating, more junk and unrelated info. > > There are some thing an old fashioned listserv does better than a new > format. This list is one. I find it interesting that so much traffic has > just evaporated. I think, at least in my case, NAFEX the organization > became less important as it became more difficult to use. Perhaps the 20 > to 30 year olds might disagree, but I did not really see them > participating. So, I dropped my membership in NAFEX the organization, > continue to monitor this list and hope for a come back. > > Stay well all. > >> From My Samsung S20 5G > 919.357.0863 > >> On Sat, Nov 21, 2020, 00:40 Lawrence London wrote: >> >> This list still works, as before. Is there any way to revive it....again? >> Is it worth it? Of course. Facebook gets worse and worse and worse..my feed >> is approaching 50% commercial ads. >> Lists that use email are the best there are. Groups.io is excellent but >> limited and if the forum is large with lots of traffic with a long history >> can be expensive. ibiblio is free; >> doesn;t have the bells and whistles of groups. io but is as good where it >> counts. I am in tough with the ibiblio admins so can get done what I need >> to ensure the survival of this excellent forum. >> Does Nafex, Inc. use Facebook? Do they even have an in-house forum? >> >> Anyway, I am still here and will be for a long time. As long as I am around >> this list will be also. >> >> I am mostly interested in vegetables but always want to learn more about >> fruit growing. >> >> Lawrence London >> Chapel Hill, NC, 27516 >> 919 448 8556 >> >> and hello to Ginda and Elizabeth! :-) >> >> -- >> Lawrence F. London, Jr. >> lfljvenaura at gmail.com >> Avant Geared >> walnut and oak serving and kitchen cutting boards >> https://sites.google.com/site/avantgeared >> < >> https://sites.google.com/site/avantgeared/avant-geared-products/woodworking >>> >> https://www.instagram.com/avantgeared/?hl=en >> __________________ >> nafex mailing list >> nafex at lists.ibiblio.org >> Northamerican Allied Fruit Experimenters >> subscribe/unsubscribe|user config|list info: >> https://lists.ibiblio.org/mailman/listinfo/nafex >> > > > ------------------------------ > > Subject: Digest Footer > > __________________ > nafex mailing list > nafex at lists.ibiblio.org > Northamerican Allied Fruit Experimenters > subscribe/unsubscribe|user config|list info: > https://lists.ibiblio.org/mailman/listinfo/nafex > > > ------------------------------ > > End of nafex Digest, Vol 241, Issue 5 > ************************************* From craigevankoe at gmail.com Sat Nov 21 08:57:58 2020 From: craigevankoe at gmail.com (Craig Evankoe) Date: Sat, 21 Nov 2020 07:57:58 -0600 Subject: [nafex] Gearing up for next year Message-ID: I recently moved to western Kentucky and need recommendations on what fruit trees will grow well here in spite of the humidity. Also sources of scion wood and rootstock would be helpful. Sent from my iPad From cgarriss at garriss.net Sat Nov 21 09:10:08 2020 From: cgarriss at garriss.net (Chris Garriss) Date: Sat, 21 Nov 2020 09:10:08 -0500 Subject: [nafex] Sweet Sixteen In-Reply-To: <1992E5CE-3EB3-4437-946B-3CE08781CB55@verizon.net> References: <1992E5CE-3EB3-4437-946B-3CE08781CB55.ref@verizon.net> <1992E5CE-3EB3-4437-946B-3CE08781CB55@verizon.net> Message-ID: I think that is one possibility. I had a similar circumstance a number if years ago. In doing a "necropsy" i found that when planted the soil had not been loosened enough, the roots were essentially root bound, not growing out into the soil around the planting hole. The adage of "Dig a $100 hole for a $10 tree" definitely applies. Other things could factor in but I would not discount lack of an extensive root system. I have also seen over watering keeping the development of a robust root system from occurring. >From My Samsung S20 5G 919.357.0863 On Sat, Nov 21, 2020, 08:44 Jacquelyn Kuehn via nafex < nafex at lists.ibiblio.org> wrote: > So I?ll start with a sad story. My Sweet Sixteen apple, about 10 years > old, was just starting to give wonderful crops of amazing apples. This > spring, as it was laden with blossoms, we had a heavy frost. Some of the > fruits developed anyway. > > Then the season became quite dry. By August, the tree shriveled up and > died. Completely dead. > > After so long to have established its root system, is it possible the > drought really was what killed it? > > Jacquelyn Kuehn > > > On Nov 21, 2020, at 7:28 AM, nafex-request at lists.ibiblio.org wrote: > > > > ?Send nafex mailing list submissions to > > nafex at lists.ibiblio.org > > > > To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit > > https://lists.ibiblio.org/mailman/listinfo/nafex > > or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to > > nafex-request at lists.ibiblio.org > > > > You can reach the person managing the list at > > nafex-owner at lists.ibiblio.org > > > > When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific > > than "Re: Contents of nafex digest..." > > > > > > Today's Topics: > > > > 1. Re: This nafex list (Chris Garriss) > > > > > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > > > > Message: 1 > > Date: Sat, 21 Nov 2020 07:28:23 -0500 > > From: Chris Garriss > > To: mailing list at ibiblio - Northamerican Allied Fruit Experimenters > > > > Subject: Re: [nafex] This nafex list > > Message-ID: > > > > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" > > > > I agree with Lawrence. I found that when NAFEX made the "decision" to go > > in a "more modern way" it became less and less useful in general. > > > > With the list it came to me once I was a member. I did not need to log > into > > another app, getoads of unrelated crap, I could easily see what was of > > interest, what I could just skip over. Bells and whistles may be nice > for > > some things. But I found them distracting. As far as I could tell the > move > > to groups had a negative impact - less information, fewer people > > participating, more junk and unrelated info. > > > > There are some thing an old fashioned listserv does better than a new > > format. This list is one. I find it interesting that so much traffic > has > > just evaporated. I think, at least in my case, NAFEX the organization > > became less important as it became more difficult to use. Perhaps the 20 > > to 30 year olds might disagree, but I did not really see them > > participating. So, I dropped my membership in NAFEX the organization, > > continue to monitor this list and hope for a come back. > > > > Stay well all. > > > >> From My Samsung S20 5G > > 919.357.0863 > > > >> On Sat, Nov 21, 2020, 00:40 Lawrence London > wrote: > >> > >> This list still works, as before. Is there any way to revive > it....again? > >> Is it worth it? Of course. Facebook gets worse and worse and worse..my > feed > >> is approaching 50% commercial ads. > >> Lists that use email are the best there are. Groups.io is excellent but > >> limited and if the forum is large with lots of traffic with a long > history > >> can be expensive. ibiblio is free; > >> doesn;t have the bells and whistles of groups. io but is as good where > it > >> counts. I am in tough with the ibiblio admins so can get done what I > need > >> to ensure the survival of this excellent forum. > >> Does Nafex, Inc. use Facebook? Do they even have an in-house forum? > >> > >> Anyway, I am still here and will be for a long time. As long as I am > around > >> this list will be also. > >> > >> I am mostly interested in vegetables but always want to learn more about > >> fruit growing. > >> > >> Lawrence London > >> Chapel Hill, NC, 27516 > >> 919 448 8556 > >> > >> and hello to Ginda and Elizabeth! :-) > >> > >> -- > >> Lawrence F. London, Jr. > >> lfljvenaura at gmail.com > >> Avant Geared > >> walnut and oak serving and kitchen cutting boards > >> https://sites.google.com/site/avantgeared > >> < > >> > https://sites.google.com/site/avantgeared/avant-geared-products/woodworking > >>> > >> https://www.instagram.com/avantgeared/?hl=en > >> __________________ > >> nafex mailing list > >> nafex at lists.ibiblio.org > >> Northamerican Allied Fruit Experimenters > >> subscribe/unsubscribe|user config|list info: > >> https://lists.ibiblio.org/mailman/listinfo/nafex > >> > > > > > > ------------------------------ > > > > Subject: Digest Footer > > > > __________________ > > nafex mailing list > > nafex at lists.ibiblio.org > > Northamerican Allied Fruit Experimenters > > subscribe/unsubscribe|user config|list info: > > https://lists.ibiblio.org/mailman/listinfo/nafex > > > > > > ------------------------------ > > > > End of nafex Digest, Vol 241, Issue 5 > > ************************************* > > __________________ > nafex mailing list > nafex at lists.ibiblio.org > Northamerican Allied Fruit Experimenters > subscribe/unsubscribe|user config|list info: > https://lists.ibiblio.org/mailman/listinfo/nafex > From pogohome at gmail.com Sat Nov 21 09:14:22 2020 From: pogohome at gmail.com (DB) Date: Sat, 21 Nov 2020 08:14:22 -0600 Subject: [nafex] Gearing up for next year In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: go talk with Cliff England at Englands Nursery. Eastern Kentucky. ( nuttrees.net) He will open your eyes to many possibilities. I live in a high humidity environment and am growing Pawpaw, Asian Persimmon, Jujube, Asian Pear. Hybrid Persimmon cross. On Sat, Nov 21, 2020 at 7:58 AM Craig Evankoe wrote: > I recently moved to western Kentucky and need recommendations on what > fruit trees will grow well here in spite of the humidity. Also sources of > scion wood and rootstock would be helpful. > > Sent from my iPad > __________________ > nafex mailing list > nafex at lists.ibiblio.org > Northamerican Allied Fruit Experimenters > subscribe/unsubscribe|user config|list info: > https://lists.ibiblio.org/mailman/listinfo/nafex > From pogohome at gmail.com Sat Nov 21 09:19:44 2020 From: pogohome at gmail.com (DB) Date: Sat, 21 Nov 2020 08:19:44 -0600 Subject: [nafex] nafex Digest, Vol 241, Issue 4 In-Reply-To: <1F69E44D-AB3C-436C-8957-064AC2AB91F4@verizon.net> References: <1F69E44D-AB3C-436C-8957-064AC2AB91F4@verizon.net> Message-ID: On the distance between trees and land prep. I will soon start the planting holes for a small half acre orchard. Since I have thick clay a few inches under I want to put in some expanded shale, EM and mycorrhizae. I will work to keep the trees around 12 foot tall, Mostly Pawpaw and Asian Persimmon and some Persimmon hybrid crosses. Does 10 feet between trees and 15 feet between rows sound like a good plan? The rows will run north/south and the land is on the southeast side of a slope in North Alabama. Any guidance to pass down? thanks On Sat, Nov 21, 2020 at 7:40 AM Jacquelyn Kuehn via nafex < nafex at lists.ibiblio.org> wrote: > Thanks, all! I like it! > > Jacquelyn Kuehn > > > On Nov 21, 2020, at 6:47 AM, nafex-request at lists.ibiblio.org wrote: > > > > ?Send nafex mailing list submissions to > > nafex at lists.ibiblio.org > > > > To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit > > https://lists.ibiblio.org/mailman/listinfo/nafex > > or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to > > nafex-request at lists.ibiblio.org > > > > You can reach the person managing the list at > > nafex-owner at lists.ibiblio.org > > > > When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific > > than "Re: Contents of nafex digest..." > > > > > > Today's Topics: > > > > 1. Re: This nafex list (Lawrence London) > > 2. Re: This nafex list (Elizabeth Hilborn) > > > > > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > > > > Message: 1 > > Date: Sat, 21 Nov 2020 01:44:51 -0800 > > From: Lawrence London > > To: mailing list at ibiblio - Northamerican Allied Fruit Experimenters > > > > Subject: Re: [nafex] This nafex list > > Message-ID: > > > > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" > > > >> On Fri, Nov 20, 2020 at 9:52 PM Megan Lynch wrote: > >> > >> The only reason I haven't posted is because people said they were > folding > >> up the list. I think the list where it is is way better than FB could > ever > >> be. > >> > > > > No, the list is here to stay, fully functional. > > > > Enjoy. > > > > LL > > > >> > >> Megan > >> __________________ > >> nafex mailing list > >> nafex at lists.ibiblio.org > >> Northamerican Allied Fruit Experimenters > >> subscribe/unsubscribe|user config|list info: > >> https://lists.ibiblio.org/mailman/listinfo/nafex > >> > > > > > > -- > > Lawrence F. London, Jr. > > lfljvenaura at gmail.com > > Avant Geared > > walnut and oak serving and kitchen cutting boards > > https://sites.google.com/site/avantgeared > > < > https://sites.google.com/site/avantgeared/avant-geared-products/woodworking > > > > https://www.instagram.com/avantgeared/?hl=en > > > > > > ------------------------------ > > > > Message: 2 > > Date: Sat, 21 Nov 2020 06:47:23 -0500 > > From: Elizabeth Hilborn > > To: nafex at lists.ibiblio.org > > Subject: Re: [nafex] This nafex list > > Message-ID: <2ea90771-cfa9-4e0f-47c4-a688a4e58cef at mebtel.net> > > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed > > > > Hi all, > > > > I enjoy the list. I tried FB, but am just not a fan of the platform.? I > > have wanted to post here this past summer with some pawpaw problems, but > > did not. I will do so in the near future and we can see the response. > > > > Thank you for keeping the NAFEX list flame aglow Lawrence! > > > > Elizabeth > > > >> On 11/21/2020 12:40 AM, Lawrence London wrote: > >> This list still works, as before. Is there any way to revive > it....again? > >> Is it worth it? Of course. Facebook gets worse and worse and worse..my > feed > >> is approaching 50% commercial ads. > >> Lists that use email are the best there are. Groups.io is excellent but > >> limited and if the forum is large with lots of traffic with a long > history > >> can be expensive. ibiblio is free; > >> doesn;t have the bells and whistles of groups. io but is as good where > it > >> counts. I am in tough with the ibiblio admins so can get done what I > need > >> to ensure the survival of this excellent forum. > >> Does Nafex, Inc. use Facebook? Do they even have an in-house forum? > >> > >> Anyway, I am still here and will be for a long time. As long as I am > around > >> this list will be also. > >> > >> I am mostly interested in vegetables but always want to learn more about > >> fruit growing. > >> > >> Lawrence London > >> Chapel Hill, NC, 27516 > >> 919 448 8556 > >> > >> and hello to Ginda and Elizabeth! :-) > >> > > > > -- > > Elizabeth Hilborn, DVM > > Bee Well Mobile Veterinary Services, PLLC > > beewellvet.com > > > > > > > > ------------------------------ > > > > Subject: Digest Footer > > > > __________________ > > nafex mailing list > > nafex at lists.ibiblio.org > > Northamerican Allied Fruit Experimenters > > subscribe/unsubscribe|user config|list info: > > https://lists.ibiblio.org/mailman/listinfo/nafex > > > > > > ------------------------------ > > > > End of nafex Digest, Vol 241, Issue 4 > > ************************************* > > __________________ > nafex mailing list > nafex at lists.ibiblio.org > Northamerican Allied Fruit Experimenters > subscribe/unsubscribe|user config|list info: > https://lists.ibiblio.org/mailman/listinfo/nafex > From mijwiz at yahoo.com Sat Nov 21 09:34:32 2020 From: mijwiz at yahoo.com (Melissa Kacalanos) Date: Sat, 21 Nov 2020 09:34:32 -0500 Subject: [nafex] Ashmeads Kernal grafting material In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <01FD4E79-6860-41AF-9215-68C8BB3D343C@yahoo.com> This list is mostly dead, but you don?t have to resort to Facebook to talk fruit. I?ve been enjoying https://growingfruit.org/ No ads, all fruit discussions. Melissa From list at ginda.us Sat Nov 21 09:30:04 2020 From: list at ginda.us (Ginda Fisher) Date: Sat, 21 Nov 2020 09:30:04 -0500 Subject: [nafex] Sweet Sixteen In-Reply-To: References: <1992E5CE-3EB3-4437-946B-3CE08781CB55.ref@verizon.net> <1992E5CE-3EB3-4437-946B-3CE08781CB55@verizon.net> Message-ID: <8CA40CB7-5268-466A-B986-53CF9A6DF810@ginda.us> We had a bad drought a couple of years ago and I lost two mature oak trees and some rhododendrons. I lost 90% of a rhododendron that was 50 years old. Even trees with extensive root systems can be killed by drought. (Although of course a limited root system doesn't help.) This last summer I watered. Not often. But each valuable tree got at least one deep watering in the worst of it. -- Ginda typed with Swype, who knows what I intended. On November 21, 2020 9:10:08 AM EST, Chris Garriss wrote: >I think that is one possibility. I had a similar circumstance a number >if >years ago. In doing a "necropsy" i found that when planted the soil >had >not been loosened enough, the roots were essentially root bound, not >growing out into the soil around the planting hole. The adage of "Dig >a >$100 hole for a $10 tree" definitely applies. > >Other things could factor in but I would not discount lack of an >extensive >root system. I have also seen over watering keeping the development of >a >robust root system from occurring. > >From My Samsung S20 5G >919.357.0863 > >On Sat, Nov 21, 2020, 08:44 Jacquelyn Kuehn via nafex < >nafex at lists.ibiblio.org> wrote: > >> So I?ll start with a sad story. My Sweet Sixteen apple, about 10 >years >> old, was just starting to give wonderful crops of amazing apples. >This >> spring, as it was laden with blossoms, we had a heavy frost. Some of >the >> fruits developed anyway. >> >> Then the season became quite dry. By August, the tree shriveled up >and >> died. Completely dead. >> >> After so long to have established its root system, is it possible the >> drought really was what killed it? >> >> Jacquelyn Kuehn >> >> > On Nov 21, 2020, at 7:28 AM, nafex-request at lists.ibiblio.org wrote: >> > >> > ?Send nafex mailing list submissions to >> > nafex at lists.ibiblio.org >> > >> > To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit >> > https://lists.ibiblio.org/mailman/listinfo/nafex >> > or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to >> > nafex-request at lists.ibiblio.org >> > >> > You can reach the person managing the list at >> > nafex-owner at lists.ibiblio.org >> > >> > When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific >> > than "Re: Contents of nafex digest..." >> > >> > >> > Today's Topics: >> > >> > 1. Re: This nafex list (Chris Garriss) >> > >> > >> > >---------------------------------------------------------------------- >> > >> > Message: 1 >> > Date: Sat, 21 Nov 2020 07:28:23 -0500 >> > From: Chris Garriss >> > To: mailing list at ibiblio - Northamerican Allied Fruit >Experimenters >> > >> > Subject: Re: [nafex] This nafex list >> > Message-ID: >> > > >> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" >> > >> > I agree with Lawrence. I found that when NAFEX made the "decision" >to go >> > in a "more modern way" it became less and less useful in general. >> > >> > With the list it came to me once I was a member. I did not need to >log >> into >> > another app, getoads of unrelated crap, I could easily see what was >of >> > interest, what I could just skip over. Bells and whistles may be >nice >> for >> > some things. But I found them distracting. As far as I could tell >the >> move >> > to groups had a negative impact - less information, fewer people >> > participating, more junk and unrelated info. >> > >> > There are some thing an old fashioned listserv does better than a >new >> > format. This list is one. I find it interesting that so much >traffic >> has >> > just evaporated. I think, at least in my case, NAFEX the >organization >> > became less important as it became more difficult to use. Perhaps >the 20 >> > to 30 year olds might disagree, but I did not really see them >> > participating. So, I dropped my membership in NAFEX the >organization, >> > continue to monitor this list and hope for a come back. >> > >> > Stay well all. >> > >> >> From My Samsung S20 5G >> > 919.357.0863 >> > >> >> On Sat, Nov 21, 2020, 00:40 Lawrence London > >> wrote: >> >> >> >> This list still works, as before. Is there any way to revive >> it....again? >> >> Is it worth it? Of course. Facebook gets worse and worse and >worse..my >> feed >> >> is approaching 50% commercial ads. >> >> Lists that use email are the best there are. Groups.io is >excellent but >> >> limited and if the forum is large with lots of traffic with a long >> history >> >> can be expensive. ibiblio is free; >> >> doesn;t have the bells and whistles of groups. io but is as good >where >> it >> >> counts. I am in tough with the ibiblio admins so can get done what >I >> need >> >> to ensure the survival of this excellent forum. >> >> Does Nafex, Inc. use Facebook? Do they even have an in-house >forum? >> >> >> >> Anyway, I am still here and will be for a long time. As long as I >am >> around >> >> this list will be also. >> >> >> >> I am mostly interested in vegetables but always want to learn more >about >> >> fruit growing. >> >> >> >> Lawrence London >> >> Chapel Hill, NC, 27516 >> >> 919 448 8556 >> >> >> >> and hello to Ginda and Elizabeth! :-) >> >> >> >> -- >> >> Lawrence F. London, Jr. >> >> lfljvenaura at gmail.com >> >> Avant Geared >> >> walnut and oak serving and kitchen cutting boards >> >> https://sites.google.com/site/avantgeared >> >> < >> >> >> >https://sites.google.com/site/avantgeared/avant-geared-products/woodworking >> >>> >> >> https://www.instagram.com/avantgeared/?hl=en >> >> __________________ >> >> nafex mailing list >> >> nafex at lists.ibiblio.org >> >> Northamerican Allied Fruit Experimenters >> >> subscribe/unsubscribe|user config|list info: >> >> https://lists.ibiblio.org/mailman/listinfo/nafex >> >> >> > >> > >> > ------------------------------ >> > >> > Subject: Digest Footer >> > >> > __________________ >> > nafex mailing list >> > nafex at lists.ibiblio.org >> > Northamerican Allied Fruit Experimenters >> > subscribe/unsubscribe|user config|list info: >> > https://lists.ibiblio.org/mailman/listinfo/nafex >> > >> > >> > ------------------------------ >> > >> > End of nafex Digest, Vol 241, Issue 5 >> > ************************************* >> >> __________________ >> nafex mailing list >> nafex at lists.ibiblio.org >> Northamerican Allied Fruit Experimenters >> subscribe/unsubscribe|user config|list info: >> https://lists.ibiblio.org/mailman/listinfo/nafex >> >__________________ >nafex mailing list >nafex at lists.ibiblio.org >Northamerican Allied Fruit Experimenters >subscribe/unsubscribe|user config|list info: >https://lists.ibiblio.org/mailman/listinfo/nafex From organic87 at frontiernet.net Sat Nov 21 09:31:27 2020 From: organic87 at frontiernet.net (Road's End Farm) Date: Sat, 21 Nov 2020 09:31:27 -0500 Subject: [nafex] This nafex list In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: > On Nov 21, 2020, at 12:40 AM, Lawrence London wrote: > [ . . . .] > I am still here and will be for a long time. As long as I am around > this list will be also. > > I am mostly interested in vegetables but always want to learn more about > fruit growing. > Hey, this morning my email box is full of NAFEX! Great! -- do we want to expand the subject to vegetables and maybe herbs? That might keep the list livelier; and would probably bring more topics where I feel competent to weigh in; but I don't know whether others feel it would dilute it. I used to get several lists including a couple with vegetable discussions, but they died a while ago. I have developed a liking for certain types of message boards, but I don't do Facebook, and find Reddit nearly unusable. -- Rivka; Finger Lakes NY, Zone 6A now I think Fresh-market organic produce, small scale From pogohome at gmail.com Sat Nov 21 09:41:04 2020 From: pogohome at gmail.com (DB) Date: Sat, 21 Nov 2020 08:41:04 -0600 Subject: [nafex] Ashmeads Kernal grafting material In-Reply-To: <01FD4E79-6860-41AF-9215-68C8BB3D343C@yahoo.com> References: <01FD4E79-6860-41AF-9215-68C8BB3D343C@yahoo.com> Message-ID: I go to this site also. Lots of good material/ideas/support. On Sat, Nov 21, 2020 at 8:35 AM Melissa Kacalanos via nafex < nafex at lists.ibiblio.org> wrote: > This list is mostly dead, but you don?t have to resort to Facebook to talk > fruit. I?ve been enjoying https://growingfruit.org/ > > No ads, all fruit discussions. > > Melissa > __________________ > nafex mailing list > nafex at lists.ibiblio.org > Northamerican Allied Fruit Experimenters > subscribe/unsubscribe|user config|list info: > https://lists.ibiblio.org/mailman/listinfo/nafex > From ossoeo at myfairpoint.net Sat Nov 21 09:49:07 2020 From: ossoeo at myfairpoint.net (Richard J. Ossolinski) Date: Sat, 21 Nov 2020 09:49:07 -0500 Subject: [nafex] This nafex list In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <360B142C-0731-49D7-9326-5AC52AF9D7F1@myfairpoint.net> Comforting news, Lawrence: thank you!! Richard On Nov 21, 2020, at 12:40 AM, Lawrence London wrote: This list still works, as before. Is there any way to revive it....again? Is it worth it? Of course. Facebook gets worse and worse and worse..my feed is approaching 50% commercial ads. Lists that use email are the best there are. Groups.io is excellent but limited and if the forum is large with lots of traffic with a long history can be expensive. ibiblio is free; doesn;t have the bells and whistles of groups. io but is as good where it counts. I am in tough with the ibiblio admins so can get done what I need to ensure the survival of this excellent forum. Does Nafex, Inc. use Facebook? Do they even have an in-house forum? Anyway, I am still here and will be for a long time. As long as I am around this list will be also. I am mostly interested in vegetables but always want to learn more about fruit growing. Lawrence London Chapel Hill, NC, 27516 919 448 8556 and hello to Ginda and Elizabeth! :-) -- Lawrence F. London, Jr. lfljvenaura at gmail.com Avant Geared walnut and oak serving and kitchen cutting boards https://sites.google.com/site/avantgeared https://www.instagram.com/avantgeared/?hl=en __________________ nafex mailing list nafex at lists.ibiblio.org Northamerican Allied Fruit Experimenters subscribe/unsubscribe|user config|list info: https://lists.ibiblio.org/mailman/listinfo/nafex From alandhaigh at gmail.com Sat Nov 21 10:08:37 2020 From: alandhaigh at gmail.com (Alan Haigh) Date: Sat, 21 Nov 2020 10:08:37 -0500 Subject: [nafex] sweet 16 death Message-ID: Your description suggests to me that the vascular sheaf was fatally damaged, perhaps by the freeze event. Sometimes the death scene is extended even beyond what is happening in our recent presidential election as such damage often only interferes with the flow of carbohydrates to the roots and roots then gradually starve. However, even when the flow is disrupted both ways, there is often enough stored energy in the shoots to send out leaves and start to ripen a crop. Year before this I had an Elephant Heart plum die from apparent cambium damage that leafed out and actually managed to barely ripen its last crop. The tree was at least 15 years old and had only finally begun bearing heavy crops for the past 6-7 years somewhat irregularly. Dig around the base of the tree and make sure it wasn't girdled. Also rock the trunk and make sure it is still well anchored. There are also voles. From lfljvenaura at gmail.com Sat Nov 21 11:45:30 2020 From: lfljvenaura at gmail.com (Lawrence London) Date: Sat, 21 Nov 2020 08:45:30 -0800 Subject: [nafex] This nafex list In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On Sat, Nov 21, 2020 at 6:41 AM Road's End Farm wrote: > > > > On Nov 21, 2020, at 12:40 AM, Lawrence London > wrote: > > > [ . . . .] > > > I am still here and will be for a long time. As long as I am around > > this list will be also. > > > > I am mostly interested in vegetables but always want to learn more about > > fruit growing. > > > > Hey, this morning my email box is full of NAFEX! Great! > > -- do we want to expand the subject to vegetables and maybe herbs? That > might keep the list livelier; and would probably bring more topics where I > feel competent to weigh in; but I don't know whether others feel it would > dilute it. I used to get several lists including a couple with vegetable > discussions, but they died a while ago. > I would like to see this list include vegetables if 1) consensus of members is to do that 2) members won't unsubscribe because of it If it's worth discussing, let's do that. My interest in vegetables includes 1) varieties, culinary qualities and health aspects 2) soil quality, which would apply to fruit growing also With the pandemic continuing, probably for two to three more years, good discussion forums are really valuable as they keep communities of like minded people together, are a lot of fun and offer lots of opportunities for learning. Allowing vegetable discussion might bring in more list members through referrals from existing subscribers. Again, we would not want to drive off the fruit enthusiasts. What do members think about this change in list purpose? LL > > I have developed a liking for certain types of message boards, but I don't > do Facebook, and find Reddit nearly unusable. > Reddit is only useful for political action, Facebook for a few well behaved special interest groups; other than that they are both a waste of time. If you were to try a fruit group in FB it would be filled with chit chat, politics, religion and arguments. There are very interesting exceptions: several scything groups, some Euro, two hedge laying groups in the UK, fermented foods, historical farming > > > -- Rivka; Finger Lakes NY, Zone 6A now I think > Fresh-market organic produce, small scale > > > > > __________________ > nafex mailing list > nafex at lists.ibiblio.org > Northamerican Allied Fruit Experimenters > subscribe/unsubscribe|user config|list info: > https://lists.ibiblio.org/mailman/listinfo/nafex > -- Lawrence F. London, Jr. lfljvenaura at gmail.com Avant Geared walnut and oak serving and kitchen cutting boards https://sites.google.com/site/avantgeared https://www.instagram.com/avantgeared/?hl=en From pogohome at gmail.com Sat Nov 21 11:48:08 2020 From: pogohome at gmail.com (DB) Date: Sat, 21 Nov 2020 10:48:08 -0600 Subject: [nafex] This nafex list In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: I like this idea. I learn much from groups like this On Sat, Nov 21, 2020, 10:46 AM Lawrence London wrote: > On Sat, Nov 21, 2020 at 6:41 AM Road's End Farm > > wrote: > > > > > > > > On Nov 21, 2020, at 12:40 AM, Lawrence London > > wrote: > > > > > [ . . . .] > > > > > I am still here and will be for a long time. As long as I am around > > > this list will be also. > > > > > > I am mostly interested in vegetables but always want to learn more > about > > > fruit growing. > > > > > > > Hey, this morning my email box is full of NAFEX! Great! > > > > -- do we want to expand the subject to vegetables and maybe herbs? That > > might keep the list livelier; and would probably bring more topics where > I > > feel competent to weigh in; but I don't know whether others feel it would > > dilute it. I used to get several lists including a couple with vegetable > > discussions, but they died a while ago. > > > > I would like to see this list include vegetables if 1) consensus of members > is to do that 2) members won't unsubscribe because of it > If it's worth discussing, let's do that. > > My interest in vegetables includes 1) varieties, culinary qualities and > health aspects 2) soil quality, which would apply to fruit growing also > With the pandemic continuing, probably for two to three more years, good > discussion forums are really valuable as they keep communities of like > minded people together, are a lot of fun and offer lots of opportunities > for learning. > Allowing vegetable discussion might bring in more list members through > referrals from existing subscribers. Again, we would not want to drive off > the fruit enthusiasts. > > What do members think about this change in list purpose? > > LL > > > > > > I have developed a liking for certain types of message boards, but I > don't > > do Facebook, and find Reddit nearly unusable. > > > > Reddit is only useful for political action, Facebook for a few well behaved > special interest groups; other than that they are both a waste of time. > If you were to try a fruit group in FB it would be filled with chit chat, > politics, religion and arguments. > There are very interesting exceptions: several scything groups, some Euro, > two hedge laying groups in the UK, fermented foods, historical farming > > > > > > > -- Rivka; Finger Lakes NY, Zone 6A now I think > > Fresh-market organic produce, small scale > > > > > > > > > > __________________ > > nafex mailing list > > nafex at lists.ibiblio.org > > Northamerican Allied Fruit Experimenters > > subscribe/unsubscribe|user config|list info: > > https://lists.ibiblio.org/mailman/listinfo/nafex > > > > > -- > Lawrence F. London, Jr. > lfljvenaura at gmail.com > Avant Geared > walnut and oak serving and kitchen cutting boards > https://sites.google.com/site/avantgeared > < > https://sites.google.com/site/avantgeared/avant-geared-products/woodworking > > > https://www.instagram.com/avantgeared/?hl=en > __________________ > nafex mailing list > nafex at lists.ibiblio.org > Northamerican Allied Fruit Experimenters > subscribe/unsubscribe|user config|list info: > https://lists.ibiblio.org/mailman/listinfo/nafex > From jakuehn at verizon.net Sat Nov 21 12:10:55 2020 From: jakuehn at verizon.net (Jacquelyn Kuehn) Date: Sat, 21 Nov 2020 12:10:55 -0500 Subject: [nafex] Sweet Sixteen In-Reply-To: References: <1992E5CE-3EB3-4437-946B-3CE08781CB55.ref@verizon.net> <1992E5CE-3EB3-4437-946B-3CE08781CB55@verizon.net> Message-ID: <9070D6BB-9304-4C34-B4BA-5B9574B3874D@verizon.net> Thank you, Ginda and Chris. I wish I could do the summer over! But I?ve learned a valuable lesson. It is certainly possible I was careless with digging the hole, too, and that area often has standing water in spring, which surely doesn?t help the tree any. Onward and upward; time to buy a new tree! We did love those apples! Jacquelyn Kuehn jakuehn at verizon.net > On Nov 21, 2020, at 9:10 AM, Chris Garriss wrote: > > I think that is one possibility. I had a similar circumstance a number if years ago. In doing a "necropsy" i found that when planted the soil had not been loosened enough, the roots were essentially root bound, not growing out into the soil around the planting hole. The adage of "Dig a $100 hole for a $10 tree" definitely applies. > > Other things could factor in but I would not discount lack of an extensive root system. I have also seen over watering keeping the development of a robust root system from occurring. > > From My Samsung S20 5G > 919.357.0863 > > On Sat, Nov 21, 2020, 08:44 Jacquelyn Kuehn via nafex > wrote: > So I?ll start with a sad story. My Sweet Sixteen apple, about 10 years old, was just starting to give wonderful crops of amazing apples. This spring, as it was laden with blossoms, we had a heavy frost. Some of the fruits developed anyway. > > Then the season became quite dry. By August, the tree shriveled up and died. Completely dead. > > After so long to have established its root system, is it possible the drought really was what killed it? > > Jacquelyn Kuehn > > > On Nov 21, 2020, at 7:28 AM, nafex-request at lists.ibiblio.org wrote: > > > > ?Send nafex mailing list submissions to > > nafex at lists.ibiblio.org > > > > To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit > > https://lists.ibiblio.org/mailman/listinfo/nafex > > or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to > > nafex-request at lists.ibiblio.org > > > > You can reach the person managing the list at > > nafex-owner at lists.ibiblio.org > > > > When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific > > than "Re: Contents of nafex digest..." > > > > > > Today's Topics: > > > > 1. Re: This nafex list (Chris Garriss) > > > > > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > > > > Message: 1 > > Date: Sat, 21 Nov 2020 07:28:23 -0500 > > From: Chris Garriss > > > To: mailing list at ibiblio - Northamerican Allied Fruit Experimenters > > > > > Subject: Re: [nafex] This nafex list > > Message-ID: > > > > > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" > > > > I agree with Lawrence. I found that when NAFEX made the "decision" to go > > in a "more modern way" it became less and less useful in general. > > > > With the list it came to me once I was a member. I did not need to log into > > another app, getoads of unrelated crap, I could easily see what was of > > interest, what I could just skip over. Bells and whistles may be nice for > > some things. But I found them distracting. As far as I could tell the move > > to groups had a negative impact - less information, fewer people > > participating, more junk and unrelated info. > > > > There are some thing an old fashioned listserv does better than a new > > format. This list is one. I find it interesting that so much traffic has > > just evaporated. I think, at least in my case, NAFEX the organization > > became less important as it became more difficult to use. Perhaps the 20 > > to 30 year olds might disagree, but I did not really see them > > participating. So, I dropped my membership in NAFEX the organization, > > continue to monitor this list and hope for a come back. > > > > Stay well all. > > > >> From My Samsung S20 5G > > 919.357.0863 > > > >> On Sat, Nov 21, 2020, 00:40 Lawrence London > wrote: > >> > >> This list still works, as before. Is there any way to revive it....again? > >> Is it worth it? Of course. Facebook gets worse and worse and worse..my feed > >> is approaching 50% commercial ads. > >> Lists that use email are the best there are. Groups.io is excellent but > >> limited and if the forum is large with lots of traffic with a long history > >> can be expensive. ibiblio is free; > >> doesn;t have the bells and whistles of groups. io but is as good where it > >> counts. I am in tough with the ibiblio admins so can get done what I need > >> to ensure the survival of this excellent forum. > >> Does Nafex, Inc. use Facebook? Do they even have an in-house forum? > >> > >> Anyway, I am still here and will be for a long time. As long as I am around > >> this list will be also. > >> > >> I am mostly interested in vegetables but always want to learn more about > >> fruit growing. > >> > >> Lawrence London > >> Chapel Hill, NC, 27516 > >> 919 448 8556 > >> > >> and hello to Ginda and Elizabeth! :-) > >> > >> -- > >> Lawrence F. London, Jr. > >> lfljvenaura at gmail.com > >> Avant Geared > >> walnut and oak serving and kitchen cutting boards > >> https://sites.google.com/site/avantgeared > >> < > >> https://sites.google.com/site/avantgeared/avant-geared-products/woodworking > >>> > >> https://www.instagram.com/avantgeared/?hl=en > >> __________________ > >> nafex mailing list > >> nafex at lists.ibiblio.org > >> Northamerican Allied Fruit Experimenters > >> subscribe/unsubscribe|user config|list info: > >> https://lists.ibiblio.org/mailman/listinfo/nafex > >> > > > > > > ------------------------------ > > > > Subject: Digest Footer > > > > __________________ > > nafex mailing list > > nafex at lists.ibiblio.org > > Northamerican Allied Fruit Experimenters > > subscribe/unsubscribe|user config|list info: > > https://lists.ibiblio.org/mailman/listinfo/nafex > > > > > > ------------------------------ > > > > End of nafex Digest, Vol 241, Issue 5 > > ************************************* > > __________________ > nafex mailing list > nafex at lists.ibiblio.org > Northamerican Allied Fruit Experimenters > subscribe/unsubscribe|user config|list info: > https://lists.ibiblio.org/mailman/listinfo/nafex From jakuehn at verizon.net Sat Nov 21 12:52:04 2020 From: jakuehn at verizon.net (Jacquelyn Kuehn) Date: Sat, 21 Nov 2020 12:52:04 -0500 Subject: [nafex] Vegetables? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Yes to vegetables! Jacquelyn Kuehn jakuehn at verizon.net > On Nov 21, 2020, at 12:11 PM, nafex-request at lists.ibiblio.org wrote: > > Send nafex mailing list submissions to > nafex at lists.ibiblio.org > > To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit > https://lists.ibiblio.org/mailman/listinfo/nafex > or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to > nafex-request at lists.ibiblio.org > > You can reach the person managing the list at > nafex-owner at lists.ibiblio.org > > When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific > than "Re: Contents of nafex digest..." > > > Today's Topics: > > 1. Re: Sweet Sixteen (Jacquelyn Kuehn) > > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > > Message: 1 > Date: Sat, 21 Nov 2020 12:10:55 -0500 > From: Jacquelyn Kuehn > Cc: NAFEX > Subject: Re: [nafex] Sweet Sixteen > Message-ID: <9070D6BB-9304-4C34-B4BA-5B9574B3874D at verizon.net> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 > > Thank you, Ginda and Chris. I wish I could do the summer over! But I?ve learned a valuable lesson. > > It is certainly possible I was careless with digging the hole, too, and that area often has standing water in spring, which surely doesn?t help the tree any. > > Onward and upward; time to buy a new tree! We did love those apples! > > > Jacquelyn Kuehn > jakuehn at verizon.net > > > >> On Nov 21, 2020, at 9:10 AM, Chris Garriss wrote: >> >> I think that is one possibility. I had a similar circumstance a number if years ago. In doing a "necropsy" i found that when planted the soil had not been loosened enough, the roots were essentially root bound, not growing out into the soil around the planting hole. The adage of "Dig a $100 hole for a $10 tree" definitely applies. >> >> Other things could factor in but I would not discount lack of an extensive root system. I have also seen over watering keeping the development of a robust root system from occurring. >> >> From My Samsung S20 5G >> 919.357.0863 >> >> On Sat, Nov 21, 2020, 08:44 Jacquelyn Kuehn via nafex > wrote: >> So I?ll start with a sad story. My Sweet Sixteen apple, about 10 years old, was just starting to give wonderful crops of amazing apples. This spring, as it was laden with blossoms, we had a heavy frost. Some of the fruits developed anyway. >> >> Then the season became quite dry. By August, the tree shriveled up and died. Completely dead. >> >> After so long to have established its root system, is it possible the drought really was what killed it? >> >> Jacquelyn Kuehn >> >>> On Nov 21, 2020, at 7:28 AM, nafex-request at lists.ibiblio.org wrote: >>> >>> ?Send nafex mailing list submissions to >>> nafex at lists.ibiblio.org >>> >>> To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit >>> https://lists.ibiblio.org/mailman/listinfo/nafex >>> or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to >>> nafex-request at lists.ibiblio.org >>> >>> You can reach the person managing the list at >>> nafex-owner at lists.ibiblio.org >>> >>> When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific >>> than "Re: Contents of nafex digest..." >>> >>> >>> Today's Topics: >>> >>> 1. Re: This nafex list (Chris Garriss) >>> >>> >>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------- >>> >>> Message: 1 >>> Date: Sat, 21 Nov 2020 07:28:23 -0500 >>> From: Chris Garriss > >>> To: mailing list at ibiblio - Northamerican Allied Fruit Experimenters >>> > >>> Subject: Re: [nafex] This nafex list >>> Message-ID: >>> > >>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" >>> >>> I agree with Lawrence. I found that when NAFEX made the "decision" to go >>> in a "more modern way" it became less and less useful in general. >>> >>> With the list it came to me once I was a member. I did not need to log into >>> another app, getoads of unrelated crap, I could easily see what was of >>> interest, what I could just skip over. Bells and whistles may be nice for >>> some things. But I found them distracting. As far as I could tell the move >>> to groups had a negative impact - less information, fewer people >>> participating, more junk and unrelated info. >>> >>> There are some thing an old fashioned listserv does better than a new >>> format. This list is one. I find it interesting that so much traffic has >>> just evaporated. I think, at least in my case, NAFEX the organization >>> became less important as it became more difficult to use. Perhaps the 20 >>> to 30 year olds might disagree, but I did not really see them >>> participating. So, I dropped my membership in NAFEX the organization, >>> continue to monitor this list and hope for a come back. >>> >>> Stay well all. >>> >>>> From My Samsung S20 5G >>> 919.357.0863 >>> >>>> On Sat, Nov 21, 2020, 00:40 Lawrence London > wrote: >>>> >>>> This list still works, as before. Is there any way to revive it....again? >>>> Is it worth it? Of course. Facebook gets worse and worse and worse..my feed >>>> is approaching 50% commercial ads. >>>> Lists that use email are the best there are. Groups.io is excellent but >>>> limited and if the forum is large with lots of traffic with a long history >>>> can be expensive. ibiblio is free; >>>> doesn;t have the bells and whistles of groups. io but is as good where it >>>> counts. I am in tough with the ibiblio admins so can get done what I need >>>> to ensure the survival of this excellent forum. >>>> Does Nafex, Inc. use Facebook? Do they even have an in-house forum? >>>> >>>> Anyway, I am still here and will be for a long time. As long as I am around >>>> this list will be also. >>>> >>>> I am mostly interested in vegetables but always want to learn more about >>>> fruit growing. >>>> >>>> Lawrence London >>>> Chapel Hill, NC, 27516 >>>> 919 448 8556 >>>> >>>> and hello to Ginda and Elizabeth! :-) >>>> >>>> -- >>>> Lawrence F. London, Jr. >>>> lfljvenaura at gmail.com >>>> Avant Geared >>>> walnut and oak serving and kitchen cutting boards >>>> https://sites.google.com/site/avantgeared >>>> < >>>> https://sites.google.com/site/avantgeared/avant-geared-products/woodworking >>>>> >>>> https://www.instagram.com/avantgeared/?hl=en >>>> __________________ >>>> nafex mailing list >>>> nafex at lists.ibiblio.org >>>> Northamerican Allied Fruit Experimenters >>>> subscribe/unsubscribe|user config|list info: >>>> https://lists.ibiblio.org/mailman/listinfo/nafex >>>> >>> >>> >>> ------------------------------ >>> >>> Subject: Digest Footer >>> >>> __________________ >>> nafex mailing list >>> nafex at lists.ibiblio.org >>> Northamerican Allied Fruit Experimenters >>> subscribe/unsubscribe|user config|list info: >>> https://lists.ibiblio.org/mailman/listinfo/nafex >>> >>> >>> ------------------------------ >>> >>> End of nafex Digest, Vol 241, Issue 5 >>> ************************************* >> >> __________________ >> nafex mailing list >> nafex at lists.ibiblio.org >> Northamerican Allied Fruit Experimenters >> subscribe/unsubscribe|user config|list info: >> https://lists.ibiblio.org/mailman/listinfo/nafex > > > > ------------------------------ > > Subject: Digest Footer > > __________________ > nafex mailing list > nafex at lists.ibiblio.org > Northamerican Allied Fruit Experimenters > subscribe/unsubscribe|user config|list info: > https://lists.ibiblio.org/mailman/listinfo/nafex > > > ------------------------------ > > End of nafex Digest, Vol 241, Issue 16 > ************************************** From jbarbowski at gmail.com Sat Nov 21 13:17:51 2020 From: jbarbowski at gmail.com (John Barbowski) Date: Sat, 21 Nov 2020 13:17:51 -0500 Subject: [nafex] Vegetables? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: *V* *egetables - me too! * *Many years ago, I questioned NAFEX about blossom rot on my tomatoes (not knowing the subjects discussed were supposed to be fruit related). * *I received many good responses from the members - so I suppose there is a precedent.* *(don't forget to clip the previous responses to avoid repetition and long messages in the thread)* *john b* From lfljvenaura at gmail.com Sat Nov 21 13:28:03 2020 From: lfljvenaura at gmail.com (Lawrence London) Date: Sat, 21 Nov 2020 10:28:03 -0800 Subject: [nafex] Vegetables? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On Sat, Nov 21, 2020 at 10:18 AM John Barbowski wrote: > *V* > *egetables - me too! * > > > *(don't forget to clip the previous responses to avoid repetition and long > messages in the thread)* > Great thing to do and make sure the subject line reflects what you are writing about. -- Lawrence F. London, Jr. lfljvenaura at gmail.com Avant Geared walnut and oak serving and kitchen cutting boards https://sites.google.com/site/avantgeared https://www.instagram.com/avantgeared/?hl=en From cgarriss at garriss.net Sat Nov 21 13:31:39 2020 From: cgarriss at garriss.net (Chris Garriss) Date: Sat, 21 Nov 2020 13:31:39 -0500 Subject: [nafex] This nafex list In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: I am fine with expanding it to anything edible plant / fruit / etc related. Vegetables, herbs, fruit trees / berries / etc. It would be nice to have more traffic, and I think we all learn something even from topics that we were not directly interested in. I have often gotten a nugget from an extraneous source. >From My Samsung S20 5G 919.357.0863 On Sat, Nov 21, 2020, 09:40 Road's End Farm wrote: > > > > On Nov 21, 2020, at 12:40 AM, Lawrence London > wrote: > > > [ . . . .] > > > I am still here and will be for a long time. As long as I am around > > this list will be also. > > > > I am mostly interested in vegetables but always want to learn more about > > fruit growing. > > > > Hey, this morning my email box is full of NAFEX! Great! > > -- do we want to expand the subject to vegetables and maybe herbs? That > might keep the list livelier; and would probably bring more topics where I > feel competent to weigh in; but I don't know whether others feel it would > dilute it. I used to get several lists including a couple with vegetable > discussions, but they died a while ago. > > I have developed a liking for certain types of message boards, but I don't > do Facebook, and find Reddit nearly unusable. > > > -- Rivka; Finger Lakes NY, Zone 6A now I think > Fresh-market organic produce, small scale > > > > > __________________ > nafex mailing list > nafex at lists.ibiblio.org > Northamerican Allied Fruit Experimenters > subscribe/unsubscribe|user config|list info: > https://lists.ibiblio.org/mailman/listinfo/nafex > From bluestem_farm at juno.com Sat Nov 21 13:55:48 2020 From: bluestem_farm at juno.com (Scott Weber and Muffy Barrett) Date: Sat, 21 Nov 2020 18:55:48 GMT Subject: [nafex] Ashmeads Kernal grafting material Message-ID: <20201121.125548.436.2@webmail09.dca.untd.com> Hi Ginda, Fedco trees also sells Ashmeads Kernal scionwood. I'd offer to send you some but my tree has never fruited and looks rather sickly. Muffy Barrett ---------- Original Message ---------- Return-Path: Received: from mx05.dca.untd.com (mx05.dca.untd.com [10.171.44.35]) by maildeliver01.dca.untd.com with SMTP id AABR5TBDYAF5GUH2 for (sender ); Fri, 20 Nov 2020 19:07:34 -0800 (PST) Authentication-Results: mx05.dca.untd.com; DKIM=PERMERROR Received-SPF: None Received: from lists.ibiblio.org (mailman1.ibiblio.org [152.19.134.8]) by mx05.dca.untd.com with SMTP id AABR5TBDYABXMG5S for (sender ); Fri, 20 Nov 2020 19:07:34 -0800 (PST) Received: from mailman1.ibiblio.org (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by lists.ibiblio.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id C9711204C649 for ; Fri, 20 Nov 2020 22:07:33 -0500 (EST) X-Original-To: nafex at lists.ibiblio.org Delivered-To: nafex at lists.ibiblio.org X-Greylist: delayed 1201 seconds by postgrey-1.34 at mailman1.ibiblio.org; Fri, 20 Nov 2020 22:07:29 EST Received: from smtp.centurylink.net (mail.onyx.syn-alias.com [206.152.134.66]) by lists.ibiblio.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1B0C02055EAE for ; Fri, 20 Nov 2020 22:07:29 -0500 (EST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha1; d=mebtel.net; s=ctl201402; c=relaxed/simple; q=dns/txt; i=@mebtel.net; t=1605926848; h=From:Subject:Date:To:MIME-Version:Content-Type; bh=P8YCUa/BBttRLM6Hq6eK7VtqRvA=; b=uMTRRaHUzq+wIythja1LUBTtZYb1gJP1+z4wcvVQVLi4mmkLmE+adeODZioH8PoM T1LVUKeLJU6VkUWg5mTeF0E2Ev++l1Vip9EXF6Rv79XBr94uJLAaWDHIRcBAXzEB EErFzIdaM//BBnz9ElNyQgsD1fNWhXrh5P5oKemYZjUfzVvCL/C+vhX8USgwYoEs c6pCzaLw8dE8wNrlf/MUH/pl9trBGZ2ztOEjqRttI0osFcM0WyQ2T6gtr2MVrPhS KF9H8TrZxUSFPx0jbg8mFJbVJQQyz12Gz0LFzUMkiRKMEob7NuqRjuZ0ErH5Kimr rWXk07hyogGQ+sPHRocguQ==; X_CMAE_Category: , , X-CNFS-Analysis: v=2.3 cv=fKlHIqSe c=1 sm=1 tr=0 cx=a_idp_x a=2HGWabLVZp4dnDedEbwTiA==:117 a=2HGWabLVZp4dnDedEbwTiA==:17 a=KGjhK52YXX0A:10 a=nNwsprhYR40A:10 a=oTv9Up-JcXAA:10 a=eQrCS-SpgXYA:10 a=r77TgQKjGQsHNAKrUKIA:9 a=ohC8Q1ATAAAA:8 a=wkj3dZ8WAAAA:8 a=3aicrpa4AAAA:8 a=tZAdsmnTYR5y6XY1xR8A:9 a=QEXdDO2ut3YA:10 a=q7VOmodLaafiiEqS:21 a=_W_S_7VecoQA:10 a=6RAfOC3ZhvdVpXzC5ha2:22 a=3XPL3nUkXc7nXAuMtkbp:22 a=IZZ_1kP1wmYzIaP2mOFJ:22 X-CM-Score: 0 X-Scanned-by: Cloudmark Authority Engine Feedback-ID: dfw:ctl:res:onyx X-Authed-Username: ZWhpbGJvcm5AbWVidGVsLm5ldA== Authentication-Results: smtp04.onyx.dfw.sync.lan smtp.user=ehilborn at mebtel.net; auth=pass (LOGIN) Received: from [71.210.47.89] ([71.210.47.89:60489] helo=[192.168.1.158]) by smtp.centurylink.net (envelope-from ) (ecelerity 3.6.25.56547 r(Core:3.6.25.0)) with ESMTPA id 0F/58-06904-0CF78BF5; Fri, 20 Nov 2020 21:47:28 -0500 To: nafex at lists.ibiblio.org References: From: Elizabeth Hilborn Message-ID: Date: Fri, 20 Nov 2020 21:47:27 -0500 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 10.0; Win64; x64; rv:78.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/78.4.3 MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: Content-Language: en-US X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.34 Subject: Re: [nafex] Ashmeads Kernal grafting material X-BeenThere: nafex at lists.ibiblio.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.34 Precedence: list List-Id: mailing list at ibiblio - Northamerican Allied Fruit Experimenters List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Reply-To: mailing list at ibiblio - Northamerican Allied Fruit Experimenters Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"; Format="flowed" Errors-To: nafex-bounces+bluestem_farm=juno.com at lists.ibiblio.org Sender: "nafex" X-UNTD-BPF: 4c2d2d21bd008d193c8d41411d4921f9a5e12cb88d7581cd5835493135053105b89d7c11bcadcd5cf5d1a89505dd18d9d838ad3d99bc88597188c115716869e8689c X-UNTD-BodySize: 1265 X-UNTD-SPF: None X-UNTD-DKIM: PERMERROR X-ContentStamp: 10:5:2189149437 X-MAIL-INFO:4c0029212929bd294c41e14c4981b891b1fc19e15da17879457901550d6d796500787d788d191dad794c0c3ddd98dcdd3871dc6188b561f18d5881059d9d59cdb8ed997cb9ad155c959d9cd1b95c95ddbcdc55dcd8b5c13888dc71 X-UNTD-Peer-Info: 152.19.134.8|mailman1.ibiblio.org|lists.ibiblio.org|nafex-bounces+bluestem_farm=juno.com at lists.ibiblio.org X-UNTD-UBE:-1 Hi Ginda, David Vernon at Century Farms Orchards has some. Contact info on: www.centuryfarmorchards.com On 11/20/2020 1:37 PM, Ginda Fisher wrote: > I know this list is mostly dead, but it still seems like a good place to ask? Could anyone sell me one or two sticks of Ashmeads Kernal this winter, to graft next spring? Or know a place I could buy it? > > Thanks, > Ginda Fisher > Eastern MA, zone 6 > __________________ > nafex mailing list > nafex at lists.ibiblio.org > Northamerican Allied Fruit Experimenters > subscribe/unsubscribe|user config|list info: > https://lists.ibiblio.org/mailman/listinfo/nafex -- Elizabeth Hilborn, DVM Bee Well Mobile Veterinary Services, PLLC beewellvet.com __________________ nafex mailing list nafex at lists.ibiblio.org Northamerican Allied Fruit Experimenters subscribe/unsubscribe|user config|list info: https://lists.ibiblio.org/mailman/listinfo/nafex ____________________________________________________________ Sponsored by https://www.newser.com/?utm_source=part&utm_medium=uol&utm_campaign=rss_taglines_more Trump Thought His Sister Had His Back— She Didn't http://thirdpartyoffers.juno.com/TGL3131/5fb962f8de4762f753cdst03duc1 Mich. Lawmakers Back 'Normal Process' After Trump Meeting http://thirdpartyoffers.juno.com/TGL3131/5fb962f82e1cb62f753cdst03duc2 Coloradoans Spent 14 Hours in Line for an In-N-Out Burger http://thirdpartyoffers.juno.com/TGL3131/5fb962f84dd7962f753cdst03duc3 From bluestem_farm at juno.com Sat Nov 21 13:50:51 2020 From: bluestem_farm at juno.com (Scott Weber and Muffy Barrett) Date: Sat, 21 Nov 2020 18:50:51 GMT Subject: [nafex] fruit for W KY Message-ID: <20201121.125051.436.1@webmail09.dca.untd.com> It seems like back in the old days when this was a more active list that there was a NAFEXer from that general vicinity who had learned to love black currants-with the caveat that those commonly available varieties are nearly inedible. He said even his kids loved them. I may at some point be able to find his recommendations, and if I do I'll forward them. Muffy Barrett ---------- Original Message ---------- I recently moved to western Kentucky and need recommendations on what fruit trees will grow well here in spite of the humidity. Also sources of scion wood and rootstock would be helpful. ____________________________________________________________ Sponsored by https://www.newser.com/?utm_source=part&utm_medium=uol&utm_campaign=rss_taglines_more Trump Thought His Sister Had His Back— She Didn't http://thirdpartyoffers.juno.com/TGL3131/5fb961c64bd1261c65684st01duc1 Mich. Lawmakers Back 'Normal Process' After Trump Meeting http://thirdpartyoffers.juno.com/TGL3131/5fb961c66b8c061c65684st01duc2 Coloradoans Spent 14 Hours in Line for an In-N-Out Burger http://thirdpartyoffers.juno.com/TGL3131/5fb961c68bb9661c65684st01duc3 From ehilborn at mebtel.net Sat Nov 21 14:02:28 2020 From: ehilborn at mebtel.net (Elizabeth Hilborn) Date: Sat, 21 Nov 2020 14:02:28 -0500 Subject: [nafex] Vegetables? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <9c0236c9-2c80-c7cc-9c66-50191998b232@mebtel.net> I welcome discussion of other edibles and the environmental conditions that support them. I agree about labeling the subject line for full disclosure of content, that way folks can pick and choose. How fun! Elizabeth On 11/21/2020 12:52 PM, Jacquelyn Kuehn via nafex wrote: > Yes to vegetables! > > Jacquelyn Kuehn > jakuehn at verizon.net > > > > Elizabeth Hilborn, DVM Bee Well Mobile Veterinary Services, PLLC beewellvet.com From lfljvenaura at gmail.com Sat Nov 21 14:02:58 2020 From: lfljvenaura at gmail.com (Lawrence London) Date: Sat, 21 Nov 2020 11:02:58 -0800 Subject: [nafex] This nafex list In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Also, about this list, you can attach images or documents to your posts. On Sat, Nov 21, 2020 at 10:32 AM Chris Garriss wrote: > I am fine with expanding it to anything edible plant / fruit / etc > related. Vegetables, herbs, fruit trees / berries / etc. > > It would be nice to have more traffic, and I think we all learn something > even from topics that we were not directly interested in. I have often > gotten a nugget from an extraneous source. > If anyone is interested in food, food prep, nutrition, health, recipes, mostly vegetarian/raw vegetarian/vegan, I have another list calles Permaculturist Health or pchealth, also at ibiblio. It has been going for years and is filled with interesting food information. I am the primary poster and use it as a handy online library. It could be used in conjunction with this list to store recipes. Subscribers welcome. pchealth Permaculturist Health is a forum for discussion and information exchange on a wide range of health and nutrition issues faced by those involved in any way with the global permaculture movement. https://lists.ibiblio.org/mailman/listinfo/pchealth To see the collection of prior postings to the list, visit the pchealth Archives . https://lists.ibiblio.org/pipermail/pchealth/ The message archives are open for public viewing. -- Lawrence F. London, Jr. lfljvenaura at gmail.com Avant Geared walnut and oak serving and kitchen cutting boards https://sites.google.com/site/avantgeared https://www.instagram.com/avantgeared/?hl=en From lfljvenaura at gmail.com Sat Nov 21 14:08:52 2020 From: lfljvenaura at gmail.com (Lawrence London) Date: Sat, 21 Nov 2020 11:08:52 -0800 Subject: [nafex] Vegetables? In-Reply-To: <9c0236c9-2c80-c7cc-9c66-50191998b232@mebtel.net> References: <9c0236c9-2c80-c7cc-9c66-50191998b232@mebtel.net> Message-ID: On Sat, Nov 21, 2020 at 11:02 AM Elizabeth Hilborn wrote: > I welcome discussion of other edibles > and the environmental conditions > that support them. > > Ah yes, music to my ears. I have lettuces growing in a fire ant mound in a raised bed; they certainly provide tilth. > I agree about labeling the subject line for full disclosure of content, > that way folks can pick and choose. > It also makes it easier finding posts in the message archives. You can get quite elaborate with subject lines; also using keywords, abbreviations, hashtags. > How fun! > Elizabeth > > On 11/21/2020 12:52 PM, Jacquelyn Kuehn via nafex wrote: > > Yes to vegetables! > > > > Jacquelyn Kuehn > > jakuehn at verizon.net > > > > > > > > > Elizabeth Hilborn, DVM > Bee Well Mobile Veterinary Services, PLLC > beewellvet.com > > __________________ > nafex mailing list > nafex at lists.ibiblio.org > Northamerican Allied Fruit Experimenters > subscribe/unsubscribe|user config|list info: > https://lists.ibiblio.org/mailman/listinfo/nafex > -- Lawrence F. London, Jr. lfljvenaura at gmail.com Avant Geared walnut and oak serving and kitchen cutting boards https://sites.google.com/site/avantgeared https://www.instagram.com/avantgeared/?hl=en From ehilborn at mebtel.net Sat Nov 21 14:13:32 2020 From: ehilborn at mebtel.net (Elizabeth Hilborn) Date: Sat, 21 Nov 2020 14:13:32 -0500 Subject: [nafex] Gearing up for next year In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <06a769be-5f71-0f38-e690-f10e3b64e355@mebtel.net> I am in central NC zone 7a. But very high humidity, pest pressure. My most successful crops are persimmons (Asian and American), European pears and Kieffer pear, blueberries, mulberries, grapes, aronia, jujube, and figs (figs may be marginal for cold tolerance in your area). I have struggled with pawpaws, but it just appears to be a problem with my site- I am not sure. Elizabeth On 11/21/2020 8:57 AM, Craig Evankoe wrote: > I recently moved to western Kentucky and need recommendations on what fruit trees will grow well here in spite of the humidity. Also sources of scion wood and rootstock would be helpful. > > Sent from my iPad > __________________ -- Elizabeth Hilborn, DVM Bee Well Mobile Veterinary Services, PLLC beewellvet.com From ehilborn at mebtel.net Sat Nov 21 14:14:53 2020 From: ehilborn at mebtel.net (Elizabeth Hilborn) Date: Sat, 21 Nov 2020 14:14:53 -0500 Subject: [nafex] Vegetables? In-Reply-To: References: <9c0236c9-2c80-c7cc-9c66-50191998b232@mebtel.net> Message-ID: <7765522b-3947-6f44-2ec8-5399104ddcab@mebtel.net> Finally, a use for fire ants. On 11/21/2020 2:08 PM, Lawrence London wrote: > they certainly provide tilth. -- Elizabeth Hilborn, DVM Bee Well Mobile Veterinary Services, PLLC beewellvet.com From pxbacher at gmail.com Sat Nov 21 14:17:33 2020 From: pxbacher at gmail.com (Peter Chrisbacher) Date: Sat, 21 Nov 2020 14:17:33 -0500 Subject: [nafex] fruit for W KY In-Reply-To: <20201121.125051.436.1@webmail09.dca.untd.com> References: <20201121.125051.436.1@webmail09.dca.untd.com> Message-ID: I would love to see that list of currants - thanks Muffy. Black currants aren't much eaten out of hand - but they make great jelly! -Pete Pete Chrisbacher On Sat, Nov 21, 2020 at 2:00 PM Scott Weber and Muffy Barrett < bluestem_farm at juno.com> wrote: > It seems like back in the old days when this was a more active list that > there was a NAFEXer from that general vicinity who had learned to love > black currants-with the caveat that those commonly available varieties are > nearly inedible. He said even his kids loved them. I may at some point be > able to find his recommendations, and if I do I'll forward them. > Muffy Barrett > ---------- Original Message ---------- > > > I recently moved to western Kentucky and need recommendations on what > fruit trees will grow well here in spite of the humidity. Also sources of > scion wood and rootstock would be helpful. > > > ____________________________________________________________ > Sponsored by > https://www.newser.com/?utm_source=part&utm_medium=uol&utm_campaign=rss_taglines_more > > Trump Thought His Sister Had His Back— She Didn't > http://thirdpartyoffers.juno.com/TGL3131/5fb961c64bd1261c65684st01duc1 > Mich. Lawmakers Back 'Normal Process' After Trump Meeting > http://thirdpartyoffers.juno.com/TGL3131/5fb961c66b8c061c65684st01duc2 > Coloradoans Spent 14 Hours in Line for an In-N-Out Burger > http://thirdpartyoffers.juno.com/TGL3131/5fb961c68bb9661c65684st01duc3 > __________________ > nafex mailing list > nafex at lists.ibiblio.org > Northamerican Allied Fruit Experimenters > subscribe/unsubscribe|user config|list info: > https://lists.ibiblio.org/mailman/listinfo/nafex > From pxbacher at gmail.com Sat Nov 21 14:27:57 2020 From: pxbacher at gmail.com (Peter Chrisbacher) Date: Sat, 21 Nov 2020 14:27:57 -0500 Subject: [nafex] OT: Bay Laurel in 6B? In-Reply-To: References: <20201121.125051.436.1@webmail09.dca.untd.com> Message-ID: OK, I'm pushing it on the subject, but I have a feeling most of us grow more than just fruit (and veggies)... Is anyone successfully growing bay laurel as an outdoor perennial in a 6b or colder hardiness zone? I've got a perennial (so far - 2 years) rosemary in our east northeast-facing front garden up against the house that seems happy so far, and the online literature seems to indicate it and bay laurel are similar in their zone preferences. I wonder if I can get some bay laurel seed and allow some natural selection as was the case with the rosemary... Thanks - -Pete Pete Chrisbacher On Sat, Nov 21, 2020 at 2:17 PM Peter Chrisbacher wrote: > I would love to see that list of currants - thanks Muffy. > > Black currants aren't much eaten out of hand - but they make great jelly! > > -Pete > > Pete Chrisbacher > > > On Sat, Nov 21, 2020 at 2:00 PM Scott Weber and Muffy Barrett < > bluestem_farm at juno.com> wrote: > >> It seems like back in the old days when this was a more active list that >> there was a NAFEXer from that general vicinity who had learned to love >> black currants-with the caveat that those commonly available varieties are >> nearly inedible. He said even his kids loved them. I may at some point be >> able to find his recommendations, and if I do I'll forward them. >> Muffy Barrett >> ---------- Original Message ---------- >> >> >> I recently moved to western Kentucky and need recommendations on what >> fruit trees will grow well here in spite of the humidity. Also sources of >> scion wood and rootstock would be helpful. >> >> >> ____________________________________________________________ >> Sponsored by >> https://www.newser.com/?utm_source=part&utm_medium=uol&utm_campaign=rss_taglines_more >> >> Trump Thought His Sister Had His Back— She Didn't >> http://thirdpartyoffers.juno.com/TGL3131/5fb961c64bd1261c65684st01duc1 >> Mich. Lawmakers Back 'Normal Process' After Trump Meeting >> http://thirdpartyoffers.juno.com/TGL3131/5fb961c66b8c061c65684st01duc2 >> Coloradoans Spent 14 Hours in Line for an In-N-Out Burger >> http://thirdpartyoffers.juno.com/TGL3131/5fb961c68bb9661c65684st01duc3 >> __________________ >> nafex mailing list >> nafex at lists.ibiblio.org >> Northamerican Allied Fruit Experimenters >> subscribe/unsubscribe|user config|list info: >> https://lists.ibiblio.org/mailman/listinfo/nafex >> > From lfljvenaura at gmail.com Sat Nov 21 15:05:25 2020 From: lfljvenaura at gmail.com (Lawrence London) Date: Sat, 21 Nov 2020 12:05:25 -0800 Subject: [nafex] Vegetables? In-Reply-To: <7765522b-3947-6f44-2ec8-5399104ddcab@mebtel.net> References: <9c0236c9-2c80-c7cc-9c66-50191998b232@mebtel.net> <7765522b-3947-6f44-2ec8-5399104ddcab@mebtel.net> Message-ID: On Sat, Nov 21, 2020 at 11:15 AM Elizabeth Hilborn wrote: > Finally, a use for fire ants. > > On 11/21/2020 2:08 PM, Lawrence London wrote: > > they certainly provide tilth. > Some of the very best. What is above ground in height is a fraction of what is underground in tunnels and cavities: The one in the garden is on top right corner - the elongated brown pile of fine soil. [image: Copy of DSCN3968crop.JPG] Arugula, lettuces, parsley from this raised bed a few weeks after this picture was taken: [image: Salad-crop.jpg] -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: Copy of DSCN3968crop.JPG Type: image/jpeg Size: 403339 bytes Desc: not available URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: Salad-crop.jpg Type: image/jpeg Size: 398451 bytes Desc: not available URL: From pogohome at gmail.com Sat Nov 21 15:12:21 2020 From: pogohome at gmail.com (DB) Date: Sat, 21 Nov 2020 14:12:21 -0600 Subject: [nafex] This nafex list In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: I would like to learn more on beneficial insects/plants/herbs. Maybe even plants to attract pollinators. I struggle to find plants to attract pollinators to my Asian Pears. On Sat, Nov 21, 2020 at 8:41 AM Road's End Farm wrote: > > > > On Nov 21, 2020, at 12:40 AM, Lawrence London > wrote: > > > [ . . . .] > > > I am still here and will be for a long time. As long as I am around > > this list will be also. > > > > I am mostly interested in vegetables but always want to learn more about > > fruit growing. > > > > Hey, this morning my email box is full of NAFEX! Great! > > -- do we want to expand the subject to vegetables and maybe herbs? That > might keep the list livelier; and would probably bring more topics where I > feel competent to weigh in; but I don't know whether others feel it would > dilute it. I used to get several lists including a couple with vegetable > discussions, but they died a while ago. > > I have developed a liking for certain types of message boards, but I don't > do Facebook, and find Reddit nearly unusable. > > > -- Rivka; Finger Lakes NY, Zone 6A now I think > Fresh-market organic produce, small scale > > > > > __________________ > nafex mailing list > nafex at lists.ibiblio.org > Northamerican Allied Fruit Experimenters > subscribe/unsubscribe|user config|list info: > https://lists.ibiblio.org/mailman/listinfo/nafex > From organic87 at frontiernet.net Sat Nov 21 15:22:36 2020 From: organic87 at frontiernet.net (Road's End Farm) Date: Sat, 21 Nov 2020 15:22:36 -0500 Subject: [nafex] This nafex list: attachments In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <3C12CA4C-2111-4462-A904-45266D83DDA4@frontiernet.net> > On Nov 21, 2020, at 2:02 PM, Lawrence London wrote: > > Also, about this list, you can attach images or documents to your posts. I'd like to request that people keep the size and number of attachments fairly low. I have a slow internet connection and sometimes if someone tries to send a really large attachment, or a large number of attachments in the same email, it jams everything up so nothing comes through until I log on to my webmail (which isn't how I generally access my email so I sometimes have to hunt up the password) and delete the one causing the problem. A couple of pictures in what at least my program calls small or medium size should be fine. -- the email Lawrence sent to the vegetables thread just now came through with no problems. -- Rivka; Finger Lakes NY, Zone 6A now I think Fresh-market organic produce, small scale From organic87 at frontiernet.net Sat Nov 21 15:26:15 2020 From: organic87 at frontiernet.net (Road's End Farm) Date: Sat, 21 Nov 2020 15:26:15 -0500 Subject: [nafex] clipping responses In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <07A61DD2-481B-4088-80F2-DC8AFE87EBBD@frontiernet.net> > On Nov 21, 2020, at 1:17 PM, John Barbowski wrote: > > *(don't forget to clip the previous responses to avoid repetition and long > messages in the thread)* In my email program and at least some others, you can select/highlight just the bit you want to respond to before hitting reply to the email, and only that part will be quoted in your reply window. I recently ran into somebody who didn't know their email program does that, so I'll drop the information here in case somebody else whose program works that way doesn't know about it. It's much faster than having the program quote everything and then having to go through removing chunks of text both before and after. Then all you have to do is check the subject line and change or add to it if needed. -- Rivka; Finger Lakes NY, Zone 6A now I think Fresh-market organic produce, small scale From cgarriss at garriss.net Sat Nov 21 16:45:58 2020 From: cgarriss at garriss.net (Chris Garriss) Date: Sat, 21 Nov 2020 16:45:58 -0500 Subject: [nafex] Clipping email Message-ID: Easy to do on my computer but hard to manage on my phone, which I use most of time. Will see if I can find an easier way than manually deleting character by character. >From My Samsung S20 5G 919.357.0863 From cgarriss at garriss.net Sat Nov 21 17:06:05 2020 From: cgarriss at garriss.net (Chris Garriss) Date: Sat, 21 Nov 2020 17:06:05 -0500 Subject: [nafex] Bay Laurel in 6B Message-ID: While I have had no problem 9 years out of 10 with rosemary in NC 7A, I lost every Bay Laurel I ever tried. I had rosemary survive to the point the main trunk on several plants was about 3 inches in diameter. Then we got one of our freak cold snaps which killed the Rosemarys, figs to the ground (they resprout fine). Good luck. From lfljvenaura at gmail.com Sat Nov 21 17:57:28 2020 From: lfljvenaura at gmail.com (Lawrence London) Date: Sat, 21 Nov 2020 14:57:28 -0800 Subject: [nafex] This nafex list In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On Sat, Nov 21, 2020 at 12:12 PM DB wrote: > I would like to learn more on beneficial insects/plants/herbs. Maybe even > plants to attract pollinators. I struggle to find plants to attract > pollinators to my Asian Pears. > Go for it. Also soil microbiome. From lfljvenaura at gmail.com Sat Nov 21 18:01:23 2020 From: lfljvenaura at gmail.com (Lawrence London) Date: Sat, 21 Nov 2020 15:01:23 -0800 Subject: [nafex] This nafex list: attachments In-Reply-To: <3C12CA4C-2111-4462-A904-45266D83DDA4@frontiernet.net> References: <3C12CA4C-2111-4462-A904-45266D83DDA4@frontiernet.net> Message-ID: On Sat, Nov 21, 2020 at 12:22 PM Road's End Farm wrote: > > > > On Nov 21, 2020, at 2:02 PM, Lawrence London > wrote: > > > > Also, about this list, you can attach images or documents to your posts. > > I'd like to request that people keep the size and number of attachments > fairly low. > > I have a slow internet connection and sometimes if someone tries to send a > really large attachment, or a large number of attachments in the same > email, it jams everything up so nothing comes through until I log on to my > webmail (which isn't how I generally access my email so I sometimes have to > hunt up the password) and delete the one causing the problem. > Ah so. I was wondering about that, still some members have slow connections. It would be a good idea to keep image file size in mind and use external linking to include some images in posts. > From organic87 at frontiernet.net Sat Nov 21 18:06:29 2020 From: organic87 at frontiernet.net (Road's End Farm) Date: Sat, 21 Nov 2020 18:06:29 -0500 Subject: [nafex] This nafex list: attachments In-Reply-To: References: <3C12CA4C-2111-4462-A904-45266D83DDA4@frontiernet.net> Message-ID: <3661268E-DDAF-4F89-BD5C-998F199DAD36@frontiernet.net> > On Nov 21, 2020, at 6:01 PM, Lawrence London wrote: > > I was wondering about that, still some members have slow > connections. At least I don't have dial up any longer; haven't for years. But my DSL at the end of a long and poorly maintained line, that is now being used by a lot more people with a lot more devices, was only up to what was then modern standards when I started using it, if then. Ideas of what's a "slow" connection have moved on considerably since then, and so has the size of what some people routinely send around. I suspect however that "fast connection" will continue to be a moving target for quite some time. -- Rivka; Finger Lakes NY, Zone 6A now I think Fresh-market organic produce, small scale From ehilborn at mebtel.net Sat Nov 21 18:15:26 2020 From: ehilborn at mebtel.net (Elizabeth Hilborn) Date: Sat, 21 Nov 2020 18:15:26 -0500 Subject: [nafex] Bay Laurel in 6B In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <6131809c-f243-f0e4-e72a-edd6e7d59811@mebtel.net> I grow Bay laurel in zone 7a in a large pot on the south side of my house next to a concrete wall. I have kept it through 4 winters, but it, like my Rosemary gets a blanket if the temperature drops below 25 degrees F. On 11/21/2020 5:06 PM, Chris Garriss wrote: > While I have had no problem 9 years out of 10 with rosemary in NC 7A, I > lost every Bay Laurel I ever tried. I had rosemary survive to the point > the main trunk on several plants was about 3 inches in diameter. Then we > got one of our freak cold snaps which killed the Rosemarys, figs to the > ground (they resprout fine). > > Good luck. -- Elizabeth Hilborn, DVM Bee Well Mobile Veterinary Services, PLLC beewellvet.com From treehugger53ah at yahoo.com Sat Nov 21 19:12:46 2020 From: treehugger53ah at yahoo.com (Henry) Date: Sun, 22 Nov 2020 00:12:46 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [nafex] fruit for part shade In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <863330486.288453.1606003966472@mail.yahoo.com> Any recommendations for part shade? We have been removing buckthorn, but we don't want to remove the canopy. We have elm, cherry and oak, but it opens up a lot when the buckthorn is gone. Dogwood is the primary native understory. Would like to add some useful fruit. --Henry Fieldseth Minneapolis, Minnesota, zone 4 From spidra at gmail.com Sat Nov 21 19:47:45 2020 From: spidra at gmail.com (Megan Lynch) Date: Sat, 21 Nov 2020 16:47:45 -0800 Subject: [nafex] This nafex list: attachments In-Reply-To: <3C12CA4C-2111-4462-A904-45266D83DDA4@frontiernet.net> References: <3C12CA4C-2111-4462-A904-45266D83DDA4@frontiernet.net> Message-ID: I recommend Flickr as a really great place to share photos and videos. The free tier allows up to 1,000 photos/videos and. you could then share links to those with the list for your posts. https://www.flickr.com/lookingahead That doesn't help with PDFs, but one can use Google Drive for that and docs. Megan Lynch Davis, CA USDA Hardiness Zone 9B From list at ginda.us Sat Nov 21 20:22:15 2020 From: list at ginda.us (Ginda Fisher) Date: Sat, 21 Nov 2020 20:22:15 -0500 Subject: [nafex] fruit for part shade In-Reply-To: <863330486.288453.1606003966472@mail.yahoo.com> References: <863330486.288453.1606003966472@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <460BB662-BB8F-4607-8BA9-15F5C87C5EAE@ginda.us> Cornus mas. It's a fruiting dogwood. I have some. It does okay with light shade. I'm in zone 6, i don't know how cold hardy it is. -- Ginda typed with Swype, who knows what I intended. On November 21, 2020 7:12:46 PM EST, Henry via nafex wrote: > Any recommendations for part shade? > >We have been removing buckthorn, but we don't want to remove the >canopy. > >We have elm, cherry and oak, but it opens up a lot when the buckthorn >is gone. > >Dogwood is the primary native understory. Would like to add some useful >fruit. > >--Henry Fieldseth >Minneapolis, Minnesota, zone 4 > > > > > > > >__________________ >nafex mailing list >nafex at lists.ibiblio.org >Northamerican Allied Fruit Experimenters >subscribe/unsubscribe|user config|list info: >https://lists.ibiblio.org/mailman/listinfo/nafex From plantbasedservices at gmail.com Sat Nov 21 20:58:02 2020 From: plantbasedservices at gmail.com (John Holzwart) Date: Sat, 21 Nov 2020 19:58:02 -0600 Subject: [nafex] fruit for part shade In-Reply-To: <460BB662-BB8F-4607-8BA9-15F5C87C5EAE@ginda.us> References: <863330486.288453.1606003966472@mail.yahoo.com> <460BB662-BB8F-4607-8BA9-15F5C87C5EAE@ginda.us> Message-ID: Henry, I think you know what I'm going to suggest. Lol. I second Cornus mas. Little John On Sat, Nov 21, 2020, 7:23 PM Ginda Fisher wrote: > Cornus mas. It's a fruiting dogwood. I have some. It does okay with light > shade. > > I'm in zone 6, i don't know how cold hardy it is. > -- > Ginda > typed with Swype, who knows what I intended. > > > On November 21, 2020 7:12:46 PM EST, Henry via nafex < > nafex at lists.ibiblio.org> wrote: > > Any recommendations for part shade? > > > >We have been removing buckthorn, but we don't want to remove the > >canopy. > > > >We have elm, cherry and oak, but it opens up a lot when the buckthorn > >is gone. > > > >Dogwood is the primary native understory. Would like to add some useful > >fruit. > > > >--Henry Fieldseth > >Minneapolis, Minnesota, zone 4 > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >__________________ > >nafex mailing list > >nafex at lists.ibiblio.org > >Northamerican Allied Fruit Experimenters > >subscribe/unsubscribe|user config|list info: > >https://lists.ibiblio.org/mailman/listinfo/nafex > __________________ > nafex mailing list > nafex at lists.ibiblio.org > Northamerican Allied Fruit Experimenters > subscribe/unsubscribe|user config|list info: > https://lists.ibiblio.org/mailman/listinfo/nafex > From lfljvenaura at gmail.com Sat Nov 21 21:46:32 2020 From: lfljvenaura at gmail.com (Lawrence London) Date: Sat, 21 Nov 2020 18:46:32 -0800 Subject: [nafex] This nafex list: attachments In-Reply-To: References: <3C12CA4C-2111-4462-A904-45266D83DDA4@frontiernet.net> Message-ID: On Sat, Nov 21, 2020 at 4:48 PM Megan Lynch wrote: > I recommend Flickr as a really great place to share photos and videos. The > free tier allows up to 1,000 photos/videos and. you could then share links > to those with the list for your posts. https://www.flickr.com/lookingahead > > That doesn't help with PDFs, but one can use Google Drive for that and > docs. > Another free hosting site with very high quality graphics is Ello. It's a little slow but worth it. I use it. From lpittman at murraystate.edu Sun Nov 22 09:26:10 2020 From: lpittman at murraystate.edu (Louis Pittman) Date: Sun, 22 Nov 2020 08:26:10 -0600 Subject: [nafex] fruit for W KY In-Reply-To: <20201121.125051.436.1@webmail09.dca.untd.com> References: <20201121.125051.436.1@webmail09.dca.untd.com> Message-ID: Muffy, I'm at Hopkinsville. Pears, persimmons, mulberries are easy here; apples... less so - we went overboard planting apples when we moved here 25 yrs ago... granted, I'm sure I planted some varieties that were totally inappropriate, and with a full time job in town, 4 kids, and a growing beef herd, the orchard was pretty much left to its own devices - no pruning, no spraying, no fertilizing. Survivors worthy of remaining have been: MonArk, Winesap, Centennial, Kerr, Bastian Orange, and Almata (last 4, all crabs) . Only stonefruit that performs reasonably here in our orchard are Chickasaw plums. Pecans (scab-resistant, mostly 'northern' varieties), hickories, black walnuts do just fine here. Wonder if the black currant person you were referring to was Richard Moyer? Seems like he did a sabbatical at Corvallis some years ago Lucky Pittman On Sat, Nov 21, 2020 at 12:58 PM Scott Weber and Muffy Barrett < bluestem_farm at juno.com> wrote: > It seems like back in the old days when this was a more active list that > there was a NAFEXer from that general vicinity who had learned to love > black currants-with the caveat that those commonly available varieties are > nearly inedible. He said even his kids loved them. I may at some point be > able to find his recommendations, and if I do I'll forward them. > Muffy Barrett > ---------- Original Message ---------- > > > I recently moved to western Kentucky and need recommendations on what > fruit trees will grow well here in spite of the humidity. Also sources of > scion wood and rootstock would be helpful. > > > ____________________________________________________________ > Sponsored by > https://www.newser.com/?utm_source=part&utm_medium=uol&utm_campaign=rss_taglines_more > > Trump Thought His Sister Had His Back— She Didn't > http://thirdpartyoffers.juno.com/TGL3131/5fb961c64bd1261c65684st01duc1 > Mich. Lawmakers Back 'Normal Process' After Trump Meeting > http://thirdpartyoffers.juno.com/TGL3131/5fb961c66b8c061c65684st01duc2 > Coloradoans Spent 14 Hours in Line for an In-N-Out Burger > http://thirdpartyoffers.juno.com/TGL3131/5fb961c68bb9661c65684st01duc3 > __________________ > nafex mailing list > nafex at lists.ibiblio.org > Northamerican Allied Fruit Experimenters > subscribe/unsubscribe|user config|list info: > https://lists.ibiblio.org/mailman/listinfo/nafex > From dvidedevo at yahoo.com Sun Nov 22 09:29:32 2020 From: dvidedevo at yahoo.com (Devin Smith) Date: Sun, 22 Nov 2020 14:29:32 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [nafex] Black currants out of hand References: <37888560.388452.1606055372005.ref@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <37888560.388452.1606055372005@mail.yahoo.com> Many cultivars are quite tart and smoky, but not all. Sweeter and milder??selections abound. The best I?ve had for?fresh eating is minaj smyriou- it?s large, soft and juicy, and very mild. We eat them by the fistful in my household.??Titania, Belaruskaya, and Kirovchanka are about middle of the rd. in my experience, still good fresh, but more zippy. Black down is said to be quite good fresh, though I don?t have that one currantly (finest dad humor implied)Devin SmithSouthern VT zone 5 From lpittman at murraystate.edu Sun Nov 22 09:32:35 2020 From: lpittman at murraystate.edu (Louis Pittman) Date: Sun, 22 Nov 2020 08:32:35 -0600 Subject: [nafex] Gearing up for next year In-Reply-To: <06a769be-5f71-0f38-e690-f10e3b64e355@mebtel.net> References: <06a769be-5f71-0f38-e690-f10e3b64e355@mebtel.net> Message-ID: Oops. Forgot to promote blueberries for western KY - by all means, plant rabbiteye and Southern Highbush types... even though UofKY extension folks may not recommend them, our experience is that they're 10X more productive than the Northern Highbush types we started out with. Apple serviceberry (A.x grandiflora) can be very good - but some years, and some varieties, fruits will be decimated by cedar-serviceberry rust. Lucky Pittman On Sat, Nov 21, 2020 at 1:13 PM Elizabeth Hilborn wrote: > I am in central NC zone 7a. But very high humidity, pest pressure. > > My most successful crops are persimmons (Asian and American), European > pears and Kieffer pear, blueberries, mulberries, grapes, aronia, jujube, > and figs (figs may be marginal for cold tolerance in your area). I have > struggled with pawpaws, but it just appears to be a problem with my > site- I am not sure. > > Elizabeth > > On 11/21/2020 8:57 AM, Craig Evankoe wrote: > > I recently moved to western Kentucky and need recommendations on what > fruit trees will grow well here in spite of the humidity. Also sources of > scion wood and rootstock would be helpful. > > > > Sent from my iPad > > __________________ > > -- > Elizabeth Hilborn, DVM > Bee Well Mobile Veterinary Services, PLLC > beewellvet.com > > __________________ > nafex mailing list > nafex at lists.ibiblio.org > Northamerican Allied Fruit Experimenters > subscribe/unsubscribe|user config|list info: > https://lists.ibiblio.org/mailman/listinfo/nafex > From dvidedevo at yahoo.com Sun Nov 22 09:52:00 2020 From: dvidedevo at yahoo.com (Devin Smith) Date: Sun, 22 Nov 2020 14:52:00 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [nafex] Persimmon pests References: <1342056809.386490.1606056720404.ref@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <1342056809.386490.1606056720404@mail.yahoo.com> This year I lost much of my American persimmon crop to some non-descript brownish nocturnal moths. They hover around the tree?piercing?the fruit en masse?with their proboscises, causing it to rot. Ive?tried to figure out what they are, to no avail. They seem to resemble codling moth in some respects. I saw no evidence of the fruit feeding?being part of their life cycle - I.e. ovipositing, larvae, etc. The fruit just gets soft and rots, often in place, eventually turning brown and dedicated. I probably lost half of my crop to them, as they often attack the fruit before it?s fully ripe. Too bad, as I finally had a nice crop on several varieties.?I?m wondering if they might be some type of Johnny come lately like spotted wing drosophila. There seems to be no mention in the literature.?Anyone observe them or have insight? Thanks Devin SmithSouthern VTZone 5 From pxbacher at gmail.com Sun Nov 22 13:24:35 2020 From: pxbacher at gmail.com (Peter Chrisbacher) Date: Sun, 22 Nov 2020 13:24:35 -0500 Subject: [nafex] Passionfruit Variety Recommendations? In-Reply-To: <1342056809.386490.1606056720404@mail.yahoo.com> References: <1342056809.386490.1606056720404.ref@mail.yahoo.com> <1342056809.386490.1606056720404@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: This thread coming alive has me thinking about next spring - a good thing as I'm usually late in my planning (already late for some ordering - oh well). Anyone growing and have an opinion on available passionfruit varieties that are relatively easy to grow potted and produce decent fruit? I've grown seedling (or floral selection) maypop before that fruited, so I figure I can probably grow a fruit variety or two here in 6b successfully. At the moment I'm salivating over this page: https://www.hortzone.com/blog/popular-passion-fruit-varieties/ Thanks -Pete From yettmw at gmail.com Sun Nov 22 13:41:55 2020 From: yettmw at gmail.com (Mary Yett) Date: Sun, 22 Nov 2020 13:41:55 -0500 Subject: [nafex] fruit for part shade In-Reply-To: References: <863330486.288453.1606003966472@mail.yahoo.com> <460BB662-BB8F-4607-8BA9-15F5C87C5EAE@ginda.us> Message-ID: Try pawpaw, persimmon, taller elderberry varieties (some are tree sized), kousa dogwood, high bush cranberry, and of course the estimable cornus mas. Mary Yett Tree of Life Permaculture Farm Ontario,Canada Canadian zone 4B (USDA Zone 3 ) On Sat., Nov. 21, 2020, 8:58 p.m. John Holzwart, < plantbasedservices at gmail.com> wrote: > Henry, > > I think you know what I'm going to suggest. Lol. I second Cornus mas. > > Little John > > > On Sat, Nov 21, 2020, 7:23 PM Ginda Fisher wrote: > > > Cornus mas. It's a fruiting dogwood. I have some. It does okay with light > > shade. > > > > I'm in zone 6, i don't know how cold hardy it is. > > -- > > Ginda > > typed with Swype, who knows what I intended. > > > > > > On November 21, 2020 7:12:46 PM EST, Henry via nafex < > > nafex at lists.ibiblio.org> wrote: > > > Any recommendations for part shade? > > > > > >We have been removing buckthorn, but we don't want to remove the > > >canopy. > > > > > >We have elm, cherry and oak, but it opens up a lot when the buckthorn > > >is gone. > > > > > >Dogwood is the primary native understory. Would like to add some useful > > >fruit. > > > > > >--Henry Fieldseth > > >Minneapolis, Minnesota, zone 4 > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >__________________ > > >nafex mailing list > > >nafex at lists.ibiblio.org > > >Northamerican Allied Fruit Experimenters > > >subscribe/unsubscribe|user config|list info: > > >https://lists.ibiblio.org/mailman/listinfo/nafex > > __________________ > > nafex mailing list > > nafex at lists.ibiblio.org > > Northamerican Allied Fruit Experimenters > > subscribe/unsubscribe|user config|list info: > > https://lists.ibiblio.org/mailman/listinfo/nafex > > > __________________ > nafex mailing list > nafex at lists.ibiblio.org > Northamerican Allied Fruit Experimenters > subscribe/unsubscribe|user config|list info: > https://lists.ibiblio.org/mailman/listinfo/nafex > From list at ginda.us Sun Nov 22 13:53:38 2020 From: list at ginda.us (Ginda Fisher) Date: Sun, 22 Nov 2020 13:53:38 -0500 Subject: [nafex] fruit for part shade In-Reply-To: References: <863330486.288453.1606003966472@mail.yahoo.com> <460BB662-BB8F-4607-8BA9-15F5C87C5EAE@ginda.us> Message-ID: <07772D6B-6D2A-489E-BF3F-4724A6FF8A21@ginda.us> Has anyone selected for tasty kousa dogwood? I have sampled several, and they range from pretty tasty to having nasty flavors. I wouldn't plant one for fruit without knowing something about the flavor of that cultivar. -- Ginda typed with Swype, who knows what I intended. On November 22, 2020 1:41:55 PM EST, Mary Yett wrote: >Try pawpaw, persimmon, taller elderberry varieties (some are tree >sized), >kousa dogwood, high bush cranberry, and of course the estimable cornus >mas. > >Mary Yett >Tree of Life Permaculture Farm >Ontario,Canada >Canadian zone 4B (USDA Zone 3 ) > >On Sat., Nov. 21, 2020, 8:58 p.m. John Holzwart, < >plantbasedservices at gmail.com> wrote: > >> Henry, >> >> I think you know what I'm going to suggest. Lol. I second Cornus mas. >> >> Little John >> >> >> On Sat, Nov 21, 2020, 7:23 PM Ginda Fisher wrote: >> >> > Cornus mas. It's a fruiting dogwood. I have some. It does okay with >light >> > shade. >> > >> > I'm in zone 6, i don't know how cold hardy it is. >> > -- >> > Ginda >> > typed with Swype, who knows what I intended. >> > >> > >> > On November 21, 2020 7:12:46 PM EST, Henry via nafex < >> > nafex at lists.ibiblio.org> wrote: >> > > Any recommendations for part shade? >> > > >> > >We have been removing buckthorn, but we don't want to remove the >> > >canopy. >> > > >> > >We have elm, cherry and oak, but it opens up a lot when the >buckthorn >> > >is gone. >> > > >> > >Dogwood is the primary native understory. Would like to add some >useful >> > >fruit. >> > > >> > >--Henry Fieldseth >> > >Minneapolis, Minnesota, zone 4 >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > >__________________ >> > >nafex mailing list >> > >nafex at lists.ibiblio.org >> > >Northamerican Allied Fruit Experimenters >> > >subscribe/unsubscribe|user config|list info: >> > >https://lists.ibiblio.org/mailman/listinfo/nafex >> > __________________ >> > nafex mailing list >> > nafex at lists.ibiblio.org >> > Northamerican Allied Fruit Experimenters >> > subscribe/unsubscribe|user config|list info: >> > https://lists.ibiblio.org/mailman/listinfo/nafex >> > >> __________________ >> nafex mailing list >> nafex at lists.ibiblio.org >> Northamerican Allied Fruit Experimenters >> subscribe/unsubscribe|user config|list info: >> https://lists.ibiblio.org/mailman/listinfo/nafex >> >__________________ >nafex mailing list >nafex at lists.ibiblio.org >Northamerican Allied Fruit Experimenters >subscribe/unsubscribe|user config|list info: >https://lists.ibiblio.org/mailman/listinfo/nafex From ehilborn at mebtel.net Sun Nov 22 14:33:09 2020 From: ehilborn at mebtel.net (Elizabeth Hilborn) Date: Sun, 22 Nov 2020 14:33:09 -0500 Subject: [nafex] The heartbreak of grafted pawpaws In-Reply-To: References: <863330486.288453.1606003966472@mail.yahoo.com> <460BB662-BB8F-4607-8BA9-15F5C87C5EAE@ginda.us> Message-ID: <3d1c6b80-d9c3-fade-fce1-b8bf44f80060@mebtel.net> I planted my first pawpaws in 2009, I ordered the superior Peterson pawpaw varieties directly from Neil himself. One of four survived - a Shenandoah that was vigorous until 2015, then visibly declined. I removed the dead tree this summer. My working hypothesis was that the tree suffered a pruning injury back in 2013 or 2014 that became infected with fungus. That Shenandoah was an outlier, but it is the only grafted tree that has ever successfully matured fruit for me. It showed me how delicious selected pawpaws can be. Every other grafted pawpaw I have planted (about 16 of them) has died but for two five-year-old (at site) trees that are still less than 16 inches high. The typical scenario is that the plant will sit for a few years in my artificially shaded site as it becomes established. Then in its third or fourth year at site it starts rapid growth. Within a year to three years of putting on height, it flowers, maybe begins to set fruit (they do not always get this old) then midsummer, the leaves suddenly wilt and the tree dies within a few months. Post mortems reveal seemingly healthy roots, no trunk lesions, no discoloration of cambium.? No clue. The kicker is that I have healthy seedlings all over the place. Some seedlings are seven years old, volunteers in the woods where I tossed overripe fruit. Some were planted intentionally. The rootstock sprouts well if I leave it and seems healthy. Rootstock has started producing fruit (not very good fruit). I have divided rootstock from dead grafted trees to start new patches with the hope of later grafting. I have not seen remaining rootstock, divided rootstock or seedlings die like the grafted varieties. How I care for them: I water attentively for a couple years after planting, then only when weather is unusually dry. I shade the young grafted trees for two - three years at site. I only plant trees in spring. I have tried planting at ground level and recently higher in mounds to discourage root rot (no indication of root rot, just varying procedures). I plant with no amendments in soil, but top with compost around the site. The trunks are not smothered. This year, I transferred soil from a native pawpaw patch in the woods to the struggling small grafted trees in the hope they would get something they needed. They still are struggling. I will see next year. Any ideas? Has anyone else dealt with this? Pawpawless in central NC zone 7a Elizabeth -- Elizabeth Hilborn, DVM Bee Well Mobile Veterinary Services, PLLC beewellvet.com From pogohome at gmail.com Sun Nov 22 14:41:52 2020 From: pogohome at gmail.com (DB) Date: Sun, 22 Nov 2020 13:41:52 -0600 Subject: [nafex] The heartbreak of grafted pawpaws In-Reply-To: <3d1c6b80-d9c3-fade-fce1-b8bf44f80060@mebtel.net> References: <863330486.288453.1606003966472@mail.yahoo.com> <460BB662-BB8F-4607-8BA9-15F5C87C5EAE@ginda.us> <3d1c6b80-d9c3-fade-fce1-b8bf44f80060@mebtel.net> Message-ID: Two possibilities. Boulders or high water. I have both. I have two spots where water will raise to the top and stay for weeks or months. I now plant raised mounds. On Sun, Nov 22, 2020, 1:33 PM Elizabeth Hilborn wrote: > I planted my first pawpaws in 2009, I ordered the superior Peterson > pawpaw varieties directly from Neil himself. One of four survived - a > Shenandoah that was vigorous until 2015, then visibly declined. I > removed the dead tree this summer. My working hypothesis was that the > tree suffered a pruning injury back in 2013 or 2014 that became infected > with fungus. That Shenandoah was an outlier, but it is the only grafted > tree that has ever successfully matured fruit for me. It showed me how > delicious selected pawpaws can be. > > Every other grafted pawpaw I have planted (about 16 of them) has died > but for two five-year-old (at site) trees that are still less than 16 > inches high. > > The typical scenario is that the plant will sit for a few years in my > artificially shaded site as it becomes established. Then in its third or > fourth year at site it starts rapid growth. Within a year to three years > of putting on height, it flowers, maybe begins to set fruit (they do not > always get this old) then midsummer, the leaves suddenly wilt and the > tree dies within a few months. Post mortems reveal seemingly healthy > roots, no trunk lesions, no discoloration of cambium. No clue. > > The kicker is that I have healthy seedlings all over the place. Some > seedlings are seven years old, volunteers in the woods where I tossed > overripe fruit. Some were planted intentionally. The rootstock sprouts > well if I leave it and seems healthy. Rootstock has started producing > fruit (not very good fruit). I have divided rootstock from dead grafted > trees to start new patches with the hope of later grafting. I have not > seen remaining rootstock, divided rootstock or seedlings die like the > grafted varieties. > > How I care for them: > > I water attentively for a couple years after planting, then only when > weather is unusually dry. I shade the young grafted trees for two - > three years at site. I only plant trees in spring. I have tried planting > at ground level and recently higher in mounds to discourage root rot (no > indication of root rot, just varying procedures). > > I plant with no amendments in soil, but top with compost around the > site. The trunks are not smothered. > > This year, I transferred soil from a native pawpaw patch in the woods to > the struggling small grafted trees in the hope they would get something > they needed. They still are struggling. I will see next year. > > Any ideas? Has anyone else dealt with this? > > Pawpawless in central NC zone 7a > > Elizabeth > > -- > Elizabeth Hilborn, DVM > Bee Well Mobile Veterinary Services, PLLC > beewellvet.com > > __________________ > nafex mailing list > nafex at lists.ibiblio.org > Northamerican Allied Fruit Experimenters > subscribe/unsubscribe|user config|list info: > https://lists.ibiblio.org/mailman/listinfo/nafex > From mlevine at umich.edu Sun Nov 22 15:39:26 2020 From: mlevine at umich.edu (Mike Levine) Date: Sun, 22 Nov 2020 15:39:26 -0500 Subject: [nafex] The heartbreak of grafted pawpaws In-Reply-To: References: <863330486.288453.1606003966472@mail.yahoo.com> <460BB662-BB8F-4607-8BA9-15F5C87C5EAE@ginda.us> <3d1c6b80-d9c3-fade-fce1-b8bf44f80060@mebtel.net> Message-ID: Sounds like your are mostly doing the right things. Only 1-2 year old seedlings need shade. If they are grafted they ready for full sun, but want regular irrigation. I find the best time to transplant is after they have leafed out, but before the leaves are full size. What is your soil texture? If it's very well drained maybe water more often or more deeply? They don't like to dry out too much Have you checked your pH? Some folks say it needs acidic soil, but I haven't had an issue with our alkaline soils. I hope we can help figure out why they are dying. Best, Mike Levine www.natureandnurtureseeds.com On Sun, Nov 22, 2020, 2:42 PM DB wrote: > Two possibilities. Boulders or high water. I have both. I have two > spots where water will raise to the top and stay for weeks or months. I > now plant raised mounds. > > On Sun, Nov 22, 2020, 1:33 PM Elizabeth Hilborn > wrote: > > > I planted my first pawpaws in 2009, I ordered the superior Peterson > > pawpaw varieties directly from Neil himself. One of four survived - a > > Shenandoah that was vigorous until 2015, then visibly declined. I > > removed the dead tree this summer. My working hypothesis was that the > > tree suffered a pruning injury back in 2013 or 2014 that became infected > > with fungus. That Shenandoah was an outlier, but it is the only grafted > > tree that has ever successfully matured fruit for me. It showed me how > > delicious selected pawpaws can be. > > > > Every other grafted pawpaw I have planted (about 16 of them) has died > > but for two five-year-old (at site) trees that are still less than 16 > > inches high. > > > > The typical scenario is that the plant will sit for a few years in my > > artificially shaded site as it becomes established. Then in its third or > > fourth year at site it starts rapid growth. Within a year to three years > > of putting on height, it flowers, maybe begins to set fruit (they do not > > always get this old) then midsummer, the leaves suddenly wilt and the > > tree dies within a few months. Post mortems reveal seemingly healthy > > roots, no trunk lesions, no discoloration of cambium. No clue. > > > > The kicker is that I have healthy seedlings all over the place. Some > > seedlings are seven years old, volunteers in the woods where I tossed > > overripe fruit. Some were planted intentionally. The rootstock sprouts > > well if I leave it and seems healthy. Rootstock has started producing > > fruit (not very good fruit). I have divided rootstock from dead grafted > > trees to start new patches with the hope of later grafting. I have not > > seen remaining rootstock, divided rootstock or seedlings die like the > > grafted varieties. > > > > How I care for them: > > > > I water attentively for a couple years after planting, then only when > > weather is unusually dry. I shade the young grafted trees for two - > > three years at site. I only plant trees in spring. I have tried planting > > at ground level and recently higher in mounds to discourage root rot (no > > indication of root rot, just varying procedures). > > > > I plant with no amendments in soil, but top with compost around the > > site. The trunks are not smothered. > > > > This year, I transferred soil from a native pawpaw patch in the woods to > > the struggling small grafted trees in the hope they would get something > > they needed. They still are struggling. I will see next year. > > > > Any ideas? Has anyone else dealt with this? > > > > Pawpawless in central NC zone 7a > > > > Elizabeth > > > > -- > > Elizabeth Hilborn, DVM > > Bee Well Mobile Veterinary Services, PLLC > > beewellvet.com > > > > __________________ > > nafex mailing list > > nafex at lists.ibiblio.org > > Northamerican Allied Fruit Experimenters > > subscribe/unsubscribe|user config|list info: > > https://lists.ibiblio.org/mailman/listinfo/nafex > > > __________________ > nafex mailing list > nafex at lists.ibiblio.org > Northamerican Allied Fruit Experimenters > subscribe/unsubscribe|user config|list info: > https://lists.ibiblio.org/mailman/listinfo/nafex > From orders at cuttsreviews.com Sun Nov 22 15:57:59 2020 From: orders at cuttsreviews.com (Jay Cutts) Date: Sun, 22 Nov 2020 13:57:59 -0700 Subject: [nafex] Pushing the zone limitations Message-ID: I wanted to report on my experiments with pushing to grow plants that are just a touch too tender for my climate. I'm in New Mexico, just south of Albuquerque. Lots of microclimate variation, so hard to say what zone we are. Last winter our lowest temps were maybe close to zero. The winter before that maybe 5 degrees colder. 1. Figs - We live in an old adobe house with mud walls that are about 18" thick. I have fig trees planted close to the south side of the house. I build up a small straw bale wall around the figs in the winter and cover the plants with a tree bag. So far (two years) this has protected most of the top of the plants. Don't know what will happen when the tops get too tall to protect, though in other locations I've seen them better able to withstand lower temperatures once they get bigger. 2. Citrus trees - I've got a yuzu tree on the west side of the house just a few feet from the wall of the house. It's supposed to be fine down to zero. It's still small and I put straw bales around it. So far, so good. I also have two satsuma trees planted in the ground on the south side of the house BUT they are inside a lean-to greenhouse that I remove in the warm months. It doesn't get below freezing in the greenhouse and the two plants are doing fine. The greenhouse can get over 110 degrees when the sun is shining in the mid part of the day. We draw the hot, fragrant air into the house. 3. Pomegranates - I've had three in the ground over the past two winters. They are going into their third. So far the tops have not survived but I think I'll have better luck this year. I cover them with a couple layers of tree bags and have an outdoor halogen spotlight inside the bag on a thermostatic control that turns it on at 20 degrees. I'm pretty sure that in the past two winters the temperatures weren't cold enough to kill the tops. My theory is that the young branches were just too thin and vulnerable to drying out . This year the branches are bigger and I have built a temporary wall of straw bales around the entire planting, along with the previous precautions. So far the low temperatures inside those tree bags is 10-20 degrees warmer than out in the open. And the humidity is higher. I think the combo of a temporary straw bale wall, tree bags and halogen spotlights (they are very hot)) on thermostats could allow us to push the zone limits, if you're obsessed enough about plants from warmer climates. -- Regards, Jay Jay Cutts Director, Cutts Graduate Reviews Lead Author, Barron's MCAT Prep Book Lead Author, Barron's MCAT Flash Cards Lead Author, Barron's LSAT Prep Book (505) 281-0684 (landline, no texts) (505) 448-0888 (texts, no voicemail) 10 am to 10 pm Mt Time, 7 days From cgarriss at garriss.net Sun Nov 22 17:53:25 2020 From: cgarriss at garriss.net (Chris Garriss) Date: Sun, 22 Nov 2020 17:53:25 -0500 Subject: [nafex] OT: Glad to See Teaffic Message-ID: I am overjoyed to see the, hopefully not temporary, increase in traffic on the list. Pawpaws - I am not sure exactly who or where, but I saw a note on the Extension Service in Chatham County NC about a local that has planted in excess of 40 Pawpaw trees and is testing for the best varieties. During the season some fruits are available for sale at the local farmers market in Pittsboro NC, but arrangements must be made in advance, they do not always bring any to the market. If there is interest I (or you) can contact the Ag Extension Service in Chatham County NC to see if a name and contact information are available. The soils of Chatham are not the "friendliest", most of the county has heavy red clay, with areas that have a grsyer clay. The gray stuff hardens into something like concrete, and when wet can be as slimey and slick as grease. However, Chatham County is where Lee Calhoun lived and had his extensive apple collection. Both Lee and his wife are no longer alive, and I am not sure what may have become of his mini orchard. >From My Samsung S20 5G 919.357.0863 From jfl0102 at yahoo.com Sun Nov 22 18:16:18 2020 From: jfl0102 at yahoo.com (J L) Date: Sun, 22 Nov 2020 23:16:18 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [nafex] nafex Digest, Vol 241, Issue 4 In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <368132828.298007.1606086978687@mail.yahoo.com> Hear hear! ?This is a great spot for serious fruit growers. ?It's also refreshing to have a juvenile cheap shot free place to share an learn how to improve our antique orchard and cider in McFarland, WI. James Lindemann Our environment; our gift. ?Use bytes, not birch! ?Print this email only if needed. CONFIDENTIALITY NOTICE: ? The information contained in this email including attachments includes information which should be considered as private and confidential. Please delete if you aren't the intended recipient, and reply to the sender immediately. Thank you. On Saturday, November 21, 2020, 05:48:18 AM CST, nafex-request at lists.ibiblio.org wrote: Send nafex mailing list submissions to ??? nafex at lists.ibiblio.org To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit ??? https://lists.ibiblio.org/mailman/listinfo/nafex or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to ??? nafex-request at lists.ibiblio.org You can reach the person managing the list at ??? nafex-owner at lists.ibiblio.org When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific than "Re: Contents of nafex digest..." Today's Topics: ? 1. Re:? This nafex list (Lawrence London) ? 2. Re:? This nafex list (Elizabeth Hilborn) ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Message: 1 Date: Sat, 21 Nov 2020 01:44:51 -0800 From: Lawrence London To: mailing list at ibiblio - Northamerican Allied Fruit Experimenters ??? Subject: Re: [nafex] This nafex list Message-ID: ??? Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" On Fri, Nov 20, 2020 at 9:52 PM Megan Lynch wrote: > The only reason I haven't posted is because people said they were folding > up the list. I think the list where it is is way better than FB could ever > be. > No, the list is here to stay, fully functional. Enjoy. LL > > Megan > __________________ > nafex mailing list > nafex at lists.ibiblio.org > Northamerican Allied Fruit Experimenters > subscribe/unsubscribe|user config|list info: > https://lists.ibiblio.org/mailman/listinfo/nafex > -- Lawrence F. London, Jr. lfljvenaura at gmail.com Avant Geared walnut and oak serving and kitchen cutting boards https://sites.google.com/site/avantgeared https://www.instagram.com/avantgeared/?hl=en ------------------------------ Message: 2 Date: Sat, 21 Nov 2020 06:47:23 -0500 From: Elizabeth Hilborn To: nafex at lists.ibiblio.org Subject: Re: [nafex] This nafex list Message-ID: <2ea90771-cfa9-4e0f-47c4-a688a4e58cef at mebtel.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed Hi all, I enjoy the list. I tried FB, but am just not a fan of the platform.? I have wanted to post here this past summer with some pawpaw problems, but did not. I will do so in the near future and we can see the response. Thank you for keeping the NAFEX list flame aglow Lawrence! Elizabeth On 11/21/2020 12:40 AM, Lawrence London wrote: > This list still works, as before. Is there any way to revive it....again? > Is it worth it? Of course. Facebook gets worse and worse and worse..my feed > is approaching 50% commercial ads. > Lists that use email are the best there are. Groups.io is excellent but > limited and if the forum is large with lots of traffic with a long history > can be expensive. ibiblio is free; > doesn;t have the bells and whistles of groups. io but is as good where it > counts. I am in tough with the ibiblio admins so can get done what I need > to ensure the survival of this excellent forum. > Does Nafex, Inc. use Facebook? Do they even have an in-house forum? > > Anyway, I am still here and will be for a long time. As long as I am around > this list will be also. > > I am mostly interested in vegetables but always want to learn more about > fruit growing. > > Lawrence London > Chapel Hill, NC, 27516 > 919 448 8556 > > and hello to Ginda and Elizabeth! :-) > -- Elizabeth Hilborn, DVM Bee Well Mobile Veterinary Services, PLLC beewellvet.com ------------------------------ Subject: Digest Footer __________________ nafex mailing list nafex at lists.ibiblio.org Northamerican Allied Fruit Experimenters subscribe/unsubscribe|user config|list info: https://lists.ibiblio.org/mailman/listinfo/nafex ------------------------------ End of nafex Digest, Vol 241, Issue 4 ************************************* From pxbacher at gmail.com Sun Nov 22 20:14:33 2020 From: pxbacher at gmail.com (Peter Chrisbacher) Date: Sun, 22 Nov 2020 20:14:33 -0500 Subject: [nafex] fruit for part shade In-Reply-To: <07772D6B-6D2A-489E-BF3F-4724A6FF8A21@ginda.us> References: <863330486.288453.1606003966472@mail.yahoo.com> <460BB662-BB8F-4607-8BA9-15F5C87C5EAE@ginda.us> <07772D6B-6D2A-489E-BF3F-4724A6FF8A21@ginda.us> Message-ID: An invasive that I love and that seems to thrive in full shade to part sun is wineberry. If it's not already invasively established in your area I wouldn't recommend planting it; if it's already around, consider it. -Pete On Sun, Nov 22, 2020, 1:54 PM Ginda Fisher wrote: > Has anyone selected for tasty kousa dogwood? I have sampled several, and > they range from pretty tasty to having nasty flavors. I wouldn't plant one > for fruit without knowing something about the flavor of that cultivar. > -- > Ginda > typed with Swype, who knows what I intended. > > > On November 22, 2020 1:41:55 PM EST, Mary Yett wrote: > >Try pawpaw, persimmon, taller elderberry varieties (some are tree > >sized), > >kousa dogwood, high bush cranberry, and of course the estimable cornus > >mas. > > > >Mary Yett > >Tree of Life Permaculture Farm > >Ontario,Canada > >Canadian zone 4B (USDA Zone 3 ) > > > >On Sat., Nov. 21, 2020, 8:58 p.m. John Holzwart, < > >plantbasedservices at gmail.com> wrote: > > > >> Henry, > >> > >> I think you know what I'm going to suggest. Lol. I second Cornus mas. > >> > >> Little John > >> > >> > >> On Sat, Nov 21, 2020, 7:23 PM Ginda Fisher wrote: > >> > >> > Cornus mas. It's a fruiting dogwood. I have some. It does okay with > >light > >> > shade. > >> > > >> > I'm in zone 6, i don't know how cold hardy it is. > >> > -- > >> > Ginda > >> > typed with Swype, who knows what I intended. > >> > > >> > > >> > On November 21, 2020 7:12:46 PM EST, Henry via nafex < > >> > nafex at lists.ibiblio.org> wrote: > >> > > Any recommendations for part shade? > >> > > > >> > >We have been removing buckthorn, but we don't want to remove the > >> > >canopy. > >> > > > >> > >We have elm, cherry and oak, but it opens up a lot when the > >buckthorn > >> > >is gone. > >> > > > >> > >Dogwood is the primary native understory. Would like to add some > >useful > >> > >fruit. > >> > > > >> > >--Henry Fieldseth > >> > >Minneapolis, Minnesota, zone 4 > >> > > > >> > > > >> > > > >> > > > >> > > > >> > > > >> > > > >> > >__________________ > >> > >nafex mailing list > >> > >nafex at lists.ibiblio.org > >> > >Northamerican Allied Fruit Experimenters > >> > >subscribe/unsubscribe|user config|list info: > >> > >https://lists.ibiblio.org/mailman/listinfo/nafex > >> > __________________ > >> > nafex mailing list > >> > nafex at lists.ibiblio.org > >> > Northamerican Allied Fruit Experimenters > >> > subscribe/unsubscribe|user config|list info: > >> > https://lists.ibiblio.org/mailman/listinfo/nafex > >> > > >> __________________ > >> nafex mailing list > >> nafex at lists.ibiblio.org > >> Northamerican Allied Fruit Experimenters > >> subscribe/unsubscribe|user config|list info: > >> https://lists.ibiblio.org/mailman/listinfo/nafex > >> > >__________________ > >nafex mailing list > >nafex at lists.ibiblio.org > >Northamerican Allied Fruit Experimenters > >subscribe/unsubscribe|user config|list info: > >https://lists.ibiblio.org/mailman/listinfo/nafex > __________________ > nafex mailing list > nafex at lists.ibiblio.org > Northamerican Allied Fruit Experimenters > subscribe/unsubscribe|user config|list info: > https://lists.ibiblio.org/mailman/listinfo/nafex > From pogohome at gmail.com Sun Nov 22 20:45:43 2020 From: pogohome at gmail.com (DB) Date: Sun, 22 Nov 2020 19:45:43 -0600 Subject: [nafex] Leaves in hole before fruit tree Message-ID: I am wondering if putting some dead leaves (that time of year) into the bottom of a hole before planting a tree would be of any benefit and add some biology to the clay. I have thick clay just a few inches down and want to do something to jump start the soil for when I plant the fruit trees (seedlings) in the spring. Pawpaw and American Persimmon. Since I have a concern with large rocks being just below the surface I will use a small backhoe to dig holes a couple feet deep and then fill the holes back in. I have ordered some expanded shale and was thinking of using some of the many oak leaves that get placed on the streets here. Would vermiculite or something else help here? Looking at a $100 hole for a $10 tree. From lfljvenaura at gmail.com Sun Nov 22 21:28:36 2020 From: lfljvenaura at gmail.com (Lawrence London) Date: Sun, 22 Nov 2020 18:28:36 -0800 Subject: [nafex] Leaves in hole before fruit tree In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On Sun, Nov 22, 2020 at 5:46 PM DB wrote: > I am wondering if putting some dead leaves (that time of year) into the > bottom of a hole before planting a tree would be of any benefit and add > some biology to the clay. > Compost the leaves first. It is easy. Just put them in a pile on the ground. Mow or scythe grass and weeds, add that to the pile. Weed the garden with how and put that with a little dirt on the pile. Put kitchen scraps on the pile. Save pee and put that on it too. Keep it watered down so it doesn;t dry out. Turn it from time to time. It will be ready for use in a few months. You would be surprised how quickly it works off and shrinks in size, becoming more dense with abundant biologically active humus and nutrients. I have thick clay just a few inches down and want to do something to jump > start the soil for when I plant the fruit From sam739is at hotmail.com Sun Nov 22 01:35:21 2020 From: sam739is at hotmail.com (Sam Brungardt) Date: Sun, 22 Nov 2020 06:35:21 +0000 Subject: [nafex] Fruit for part shade Message-ID: I live in St. Paul and have grown some small fruits that do well in areas near trees as long as they get a few hours of sunlight a day. The most shade-tolerant are gooseberries and red and black currants. They should bear well for you, but would do best if the weeds are kept down for at least a couple of feet around each plant. They will also need some irrigation should we have have a dry spell. From r.fred.bruns at gmail.com Sun Nov 22 23:34:23 2020 From: r.fred.bruns at gmail.com (Fred Bruns) Date: Sun, 22 Nov 2020 23:34:23 -0500 Subject: [nafex] The heartbreak of grafted pawpaws In-Reply-To: References: <863330486.288453.1606003966472@mail.yahoo.com> <460BB662-BB8F-4607-8BA9-15F5C87C5EAE@ginda.us> <3d1c6b80-d9c3-fade-fce1-b8bf44f80060@mebtel.net> Message-ID: One solution might be to plant seeds from a known variety and hope that at least some of the seedlings are similar to the parent. I have seeds from Shenandoah with the male parent probably being Pennsylvania Golden. I had a grafted tree fail to sprout one spring. It was fairly large, about 10 feet wide and 15 feet tall. It didn't produce suckers after the top died, so I presume the roots died during the fall or winter. For what it's worth, you can find wild pawpaws near just about every stream here in central Indiana. The underlying rock is limestone, so I doubt they require acidic soil. On Sun, Nov 22, 2020 at 3:40 PM Mike Levine wrote: > Sounds like your are mostly doing the right things. > Only 1-2 year old seedlings need shade. If they are grafted they ready for > full sun, but want regular irrigation. I find the best time to transplant > is after they have leafed out, but before the leaves are full size. > What is your soil texture? If it's very well drained maybe water more > often or more deeply? They don't like to dry out too much > Have you checked your pH? Some folks say it needs acidic soil, but I > haven't had an issue with our alkaline soils. > I hope we can help figure out why they are dying. > > Best, > Mike Levine > www.natureandnurtureseeds.com > > On Sun, Nov 22, 2020, 2:42 PM DB wrote: > > > Two possibilities. Boulders or high water. I have both. I have two > > spots where water will raise to the top and stay for weeks or months. I > > now plant raised mounds. > > > > On Sun, Nov 22, 2020, 1:33 PM Elizabeth Hilborn > > wrote: > > > > > I planted my first pawpaws in 2009, I ordered the superior Peterson > > > pawpaw varieties directly from Neil himself. One of four survived - a > > > Shenandoah that was vigorous until 2015, then visibly declined. I > > > removed the dead tree this summer. My working hypothesis was that the > > > tree suffered a pruning injury back in 2013 or 2014 that became > infected > > > with fungus. That Shenandoah was an outlier, but it is the only grafted > > > tree that has ever successfully matured fruit for me. It showed me how > > > delicious selected pawpaws can be. > > > > > > Every other grafted pawpaw I have planted (about 16 of them) has died > > > but for two five-year-old (at site) trees that are still less than 16 > > > inches high. > > > > > > The typical scenario is that the plant will sit for a few years in my > > > artificially shaded site as it becomes established. Then in its third > or > > > fourth year at site it starts rapid growth. Within a year to three > years > > > of putting on height, it flowers, maybe begins to set fruit (they do > not > > > always get this old) then midsummer, the leaves suddenly wilt and the > > > tree dies within a few months. Post mortems reveal seemingly healthy > > > roots, no trunk lesions, no discoloration of cambium. No clue. > > > > > > The kicker is that I have healthy seedlings all over the place. Some > > > seedlings are seven years old, volunteers in the woods where I tossed > > > overripe fruit. Some were planted intentionally. The rootstock sprouts > > > well if I leave it and seems healthy. Rootstock has started producing > > > fruit (not very good fruit). I have divided rootstock from dead grafted > > > trees to start new patches with the hope of later grafting. I have not > > > seen remaining rootstock, divided rootstock or seedlings die like the > > > grafted varieties. > > > > > > How I care for them: > > > > > > I water attentively for a couple years after planting, then only when > > > weather is unusually dry. I shade the young grafted trees for two - > > > three years at site. I only plant trees in spring. I have tried > planting > > > at ground level and recently higher in mounds to discourage root rot > (no > > > indication of root rot, just varying procedures). > > > > > > I plant with no amendments in soil, but top with compost around the > > > site. The trunks are not smothered. > > > > > > This year, I transferred soil from a native pawpaw patch in the woods > to > > > the struggling small grafted trees in the hope they would get something > > > they needed. They still are struggling. I will see next year. > > > > > > Any ideas? Has anyone else dealt with this? > > > > > > Pawpawless in central NC zone 7a > > > > > > Elizabeth > > > > > > -- > > > Elizabeth Hilborn, DVM > > > Bee Well Mobile Veterinary Services, PLLC > > > beewellvet.com > > > > > > __________________ > > > nafex mailing list > > > nafex at lists.ibiblio.org > > > Northamerican Allied Fruit Experimenters > > > subscribe/unsubscribe|user config|list info: > > > https://lists.ibiblio.org/mailman/listinfo/nafex > > > > > __________________ > > nafex mailing list > > nafex at lists.ibiblio.org > > Northamerican Allied Fruit Experimenters > > subscribe/unsubscribe|user config|list info: > > https://lists.ibiblio.org/mailman/listinfo/nafex > > > __________________ > nafex mailing list > nafex at lists.ibiblio.org > Northamerican Allied Fruit Experimenters > subscribe/unsubscribe|user config|list info: > https://lists.ibiblio.org/mailman/listinfo/nafex > From pking888 at gmail.com Mon Nov 23 00:20:33 2020 From: pking888 at gmail.com (Patsy King) Date: Sun, 22 Nov 2020 21:20:33 -0800 Subject: [nafex] Elizabeth's grafted pawpaw sudden death Message-ID: I know nothing about pawpaws but wondered about graft incompatibility. A google search brought up this response to somebody whose trees die in the fall: (I put bold formatting on the pertinent part): Several possibilities come to mind for the cause of your trees death. Pawpaws require a well drained soil and we have had two wet seasons back to back. Saturated soils make trees much more susceptible to Phytophthora root rot. If the roots are dead this is probably the cause. This particular tree may have been growing in an area where water pockets after a rain or in a drainage area. *If the tree is a grafted one and the roots are alive (You can cut through the bark with a knife and see green tissue), but the top of the tree is dead the problem could be graft incompatibility with the seedling rootstock. This can show up a number of years after planting.* There is not much that can be done about this other than plant another tree. Alternatively if you look very closely at the dead top of the tree and see a multitude of pin head sized holes with what looks like a toothpick sized extension from the hole of sawdust the problem is Ambrosia beetle. This insect attacks trees that are growing less rapidly or are stressed. A targeted spray program for this insect is needed if this is the problem. The URL of the info above is: https://ask.extension.org/questions/293442 I found more fascinating info here, mentioning that pawpaws usually are not grafted, and why. But it does tell how the writer did the grafting when he tried. http://rarefruitclub.org.au/Level2/GraftingPawpaws.htm Were your grafted trees all purchased ones? I was not able yet to find out in some quick googling, what rootstocks/scions to use in order to avoid graft incompatibility. From leeareich at gmail.com Mon Nov 23 06:08:39 2020 From: leeareich at gmail.com (Lee Reich) Date: Mon, 23 Nov 2020 06:08:39 -0500 Subject: [nafex] The heartbreak of grafted pawpaws In-Reply-To: <3d1c6b80-d9c3-fade-fce1-b8bf44f80060@mebtel.net> References: <863330486.288453.1606003966472@mail.yahoo.com> <460BB662-BB8F-4607-8BA9-15F5C87C5EAE@ginda.us> <3d1c6b80-d9c3-fade-fce1-b8bf44f80060@mebtel.net> Message-ID: <260D4F49-9D9B-49D3-9270-17644F4CA3DC@gmail.com> Just a couple of comments on your pawpaw experience: ?Water attentively? is not necessarily watering correctly which is all important to the health of a plant. If the soil is well-drained, whih it should be, I generally recommend 3/4 gallon per square foot estimated spread of the root system, once a week. (More frequently for an initially planted potted tree which is, essentially, still growing in a pot until its roots reach out into surrounding soil. As far as shading, older trees do best in full sun. A grafted tree?s portion above the graft was taken from mature, fruiting wood, so its top portion is mature and will do best in full sun right from the get go. (I also have seen no definitive substantiation that even seedling trees need shade when young if given good soil conditions, which mostly means adequate moisture.) Lee Lee Reich, PhD Come visit my farmden at http://www.leereich.com/blog http://leereich.com Books by Lee Reich: ?The Ever Curious Gardener: Using a Little Natural Science for a Much Better Garden ?A Northeast Gardener?s Year ?The Pruning Book ?Weedless Gardening ?Uncommon Fruits for every Garden ?Landscaping with Fruit ?Grow Fruit Naturally > On Nov 22, 2020, at 2:33 PM, Elizabeth Hilborn wrote: > > I planted my first pawpaws in 2009, I ordered the superior Peterson pawpaw varieties directly from Neil himself. One of four survived - a Shenandoah that was vigorous until 2015, then visibly declined. I removed the dead tree this summer. My working hypothesis was that the tree suffered a pruning injury back in 2013 or 2014 that became infected with fungus. That Shenandoah was an outlier, but it is the only grafted tree that has ever successfully matured fruit for me. It showed me how delicious selected pawpaws can be. > > Every other grafted pawpaw I have planted (about 16 of them) has died but for two five-year-old (at site) trees that are still less than 16 inches high. > > The typical scenario is that the plant will sit for a few years in my artificially shaded site as it becomes established. Then in its third or fourth year at site it starts rapid growth. Within a year to three years of putting on height, it flowers, maybe begins to set fruit (they do not always get this old) then midsummer, the leaves suddenly wilt and the tree dies within a few months. Post mortems reveal seemingly healthy roots, no trunk lesions, no discoloration of cambium. No clue. > > The kicker is that I have healthy seedlings all over the place. Some seedlings are seven years old, volunteers in the woods where I tossed overripe fruit. Some were planted intentionally. The rootstock sprouts well if I leave it and seems healthy. Rootstock has started producing fruit (not very good fruit). I have divided rootstock from dead grafted trees to start new patches with the hope of later grafting. I have not seen remaining rootstock, divided rootstock or seedlings die like the grafted varieties. > > How I care for them: > > I water attentively for a couple years after planting, then only when weather is unusually dry. I shade the young grafted trees for two - three years at site. I only plant trees in spring. I have tried planting at ground level and recently higher in mounds to discourage root rot (no indication of root rot, just varying procedures). > > I plant with no amendments in soil, but top with compost around the site. The trunks are not smothered. > > This year, I transferred soil from a native pawpaw patch in the woods to the struggling small grafted trees in the hope they would get something they needed. They still are struggling. I will see next year. > > Any ideas? Has anyone else dealt with this? > > Pawpawless in central NC zone 7a > > Elizabeth > > -- > Elizabeth Hilborn, DVM > Bee Well Mobile Veterinary Services, PLLC > beewellvet.com > > __________________ > nafex mailing list > nafex at lists.ibiblio.org > Northamerican Allied Fruit Experimenters > subscribe/unsubscribe|user config|list info: > https://lists.ibiblio.org/mailman/listinfo/nafex From leeareich at gmail.com Mon Nov 23 06:13:19 2020 From: leeareich at gmail.com (Lee Reich) Date: Mon, 23 Nov 2020 06:13:19 -0500 Subject: [nafex] Leaves in hole before fruit tree In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <2DE8099F-28A0-4C1E-8F67-E2C8121AE4F5@gmail.com> Anything in a planting hole that causes a dramatic change in soil texture is inadvisable. At the bottom of a hole, that material causes a ?perched water table?. It?s counterintuitive but true. And any material that dramatically changes the soil porosity creates a ?pot in the ground? effect wherein roots stay inn the amended soil. Rock and boulders should not interfere with growth as long as there?s some soil though which roots can wend their way. Lee Lee Reich, PhD Come visit my farmden at http://www.leereich.com/blog http://leereich.com Books by Lee Reich: ?The Ever Curious Gardener: Using a Little Natural Science for a Much Better Garden ?A Northeast Gardener?s Year ?The Pruning Book ?Weedless Gardening ?Uncommon Fruits for every Garden ?Landscaping with Fruit ?Grow Fruit Naturally > On Nov 22, 2020, at 8:45 PM, DB wrote: > > I am wondering if putting some dead leaves (that time of year) into the > bottom of a hole before planting a tree would be of any benefit and add > some biology to the clay. > I have thick clay just a few inches down and want to do something to jump > start the soil for when I plant the fruit > trees > (seedlings) in the > spring. Pawpaw and American Persimmon. > Since I have a concern with large rocks being just below the surface I will > use a small backhoe to dig holes a couple feet deep and then fill the holes > back in. > I have ordered some expanded shale and was thinking of using some of the > many oak leaves that get placed on the streets here. > Would vermiculite or something else help here? > Looking at a $100 hole for a $10 tree. > __________________ > nafex mailing list > nafex at lists.ibiblio.org > Northamerican Allied Fruit Experimenters > subscribe/unsubscribe|user config|list info: > https://lists.ibiblio.org/mailman/listinfo/nafex From alandhaigh at gmail.com Mon Nov 23 06:33:43 2020 From: alandhaigh at gmail.com (Alan Haigh) Date: Mon, 23 Nov 2020 06:33:43 -0500 Subject: [nafex] nafex Digest, Vol 242, Issue 1 In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Dying paw-paws. Reading your descriptions provides no real clue to what is causing your paw-paws to die. I've no idea where you live, but paw-paw trees are very hard to kill in S. NY and I completely rely on rainfall for every paw-paw I manage. The only thing left for you to do that I can think of is to send a sample to a plant pathologist employed by your state's Land Grant university through your county's cooperative extension service the next time one dies. Paw paws are moderately simple to graft if you keep scion wood from drying out with parafilm, so you should acquire some wood and transform a few of those volunteers. It makes no sense to me that they would thrive when grafted varieties don't. That said, I've had cambium kill of a paw paw from a late hard frost of a single tree I manage and had another one badly damaged the same way that I thought was going to die but recovered. I plan to gratt over the one that was killed to the ground because its roots are sending up vigorous suckers. Perhaps your selected varieties are ill suited for your climate. On Mon, Nov 23, 2020 at 6:11 AM wrote: > Send nafex mailing list submissions to > nafex at lists.ibiblio.org > > To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit > https://lists.ibiblio.org/mailman/listinfo/nafex > or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to > nafex-request at lists.ibiblio.org > > You can reach the person managing the list at > nafex-owner at lists.ibiblio.org > > When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific > than "Re: Contents of nafex digest..." > > > Today's Topics: > > 1. Re: Elizabeth's grafted pawpaw sudden death (Patsy King) > 2. Re: The heartbreak of grafted pawpaws (Lee Reich) > > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > > Message: 1 > Date: Sun, 22 Nov 2020 21:20:33 -0800 > From: Patsy King > To: nafex at lists.ibiblio.org > Subject: Re: [nafex] Elizabeth's grafted pawpaw sudden death > Message-ID: > x23EW0Fc5Cu5OKyDVoaN5mw at mail.gmail.com> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" > > I know nothing about pawpaws but wondered about graft incompatibility. A > google search brought up this response to somebody whose trees die in the > fall: (I put bold formatting on the pertinent part): > Several possibilities come to mind for the cause of your trees death. > Pawpaws require a well drained soil and we have had two wet seasons back to > back. Saturated soils make trees much more susceptible to Phytophthora root > rot. If the roots are dead this is probably the cause. This particular tree > may have been growing in an area where water pockets after a rain or in a > drainage area. *If the tree is a grafted one and the roots are alive (You > can cut through the bark with a knife and see green tissue), but the top of > the tree is dead the problem could be graft incompatibility with the > seedling rootstock. This can show up a number of years after planting.* > There is not much that can be done about this other than plant another > tree. Alternatively if you look very closely at the dead top of the tree > and see a multitude of pin head sized holes with what looks like a > toothpick sized extension from the hole of sawdust the problem is Ambrosia > beetle. This insect attacks trees that are growing less rapidly or are > stressed. A targeted spray program for this insect is needed if this is the > problem. > > The URL of the info above is: > https://ask.extension.org/questions/293442 > > > I found more fascinating info here, mentioning that pawpaws usually are not > grafted, and why. But it does tell how the writer did the grafting when he > tried. > http://rarefruitclub.org.au/Level2/GraftingPawpaws.htm > > Were your grafted trees all purchased ones? I was not able yet to find > out in some quick googling, what rootstocks/scions to use in order to avoid > graft incompatibility. > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 2 > Date: Mon, 23 Nov 2020 06:08:39 -0500 > From: Lee Reich > To: mailing list at ibiblio - Northamerican Allied Fruit Experimenters > > Subject: Re: [nafex] The heartbreak of grafted pawpaws > Message-ID: <260D4F49-9D9B-49D3-9270-17644F4CA3DC at gmail.com> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 > > Just a couple of comments on your pawpaw experience: > > ?Water attentively? is not necessarily watering correctly which is all > important to the health of a plant. If the soil is well-drained, whih it > should be, I generally recommend 3/4 gallon per square foot estimated > spread of the root system, once a week. (More frequently for an initially > planted potted tree which is, essentially, still growing in a pot until its > roots reach out into surrounding soil. > > As far as shading, older trees do best in full sun. A grafted tree?s > portion above the graft was taken from mature, fruiting wood, so its top > portion is mature and will do best in full sun right from the get go. (I > also have seen no definitive substantiation that even seedling trees need > shade when young if given good soil conditions, which mostly means adequate > moisture.) > > Lee > Lee Reich, PhD > Come visit my farmden at > http://www.leereich.com/blog > http://leereich.com > > Books by Lee Reich: > ?The Ever Curious Gardener: Using a Little Natural Science for a Much > Better Garden > ?A Northeast Gardener?s Year > ?The Pruning Book > ?Weedless Gardening > ?Uncommon Fruits for every Garden > ?Landscaping with Fruit > ?Grow Fruit Naturally > > > On Nov 22, 2020, at 2:33 PM, Elizabeth Hilborn > wrote: > > > > I planted my first pawpaws in 2009, I ordered the superior Peterson > pawpaw varieties directly from Neil himself. One of four survived - a > Shenandoah that was vigorous until 2015, then visibly declined. I removed > the dead tree this summer. My working hypothesis was that the tree suffered > a pruning injury back in 2013 or 2014 that became infected with fungus. > That Shenandoah was an outlier, but it is the only grafted tree that has > ever successfully matured fruit for me. It showed me how delicious selected > pawpaws can be. > > > > Every other grafted pawpaw I have planted (about 16 of them) has died > but for two five-year-old (at site) trees that are still less than 16 > inches high. > > > > The typical scenario is that the plant will sit for a few years in my > artificially shaded site as it becomes established. Then in its third or > fourth year at site it starts rapid growth. Within a year to three years of > putting on height, it flowers, maybe begins to set fruit (they do not > always get this old) then midsummer, the leaves suddenly wilt and the tree > dies within a few months. Post mortems reveal seemingly healthy roots, no > trunk lesions, no discoloration of cambium. No clue. > > > > The kicker is that I have healthy seedlings all over the place. Some > seedlings are seven years old, volunteers in the woods where I tossed > overripe fruit. Some were planted intentionally. The rootstock sprouts well > if I leave it and seems healthy. Rootstock has started producing fruit (not > very good fruit). I have divided rootstock from dead grafted trees to start > new patches with the hope of later grafting. I have not seen remaining > rootstock, divided rootstock or seedlings die like the grafted varieties. > > > > How I care for them: > > > > I water attentively for a couple years after planting, then only when > weather is unusually dry. I shade the young grafted trees for two - three > years at site. I only plant trees in spring. I have tried planting at > ground level and recently higher in mounds to discourage root rot (no > indication of root rot, just varying procedures). > > > > I plant with no amendments in soil, but top with compost around the > site. The trunks are not smothered. > > > > This year, I transferred soil from a native pawpaw patch in the woods to > the struggling small grafted trees in the hope they would get something > they needed. They still are struggling. I will see next year. > > > > Any ideas? Has anyone else dealt with this? > > > > Pawpawless in central NC zone 7a > > > > Elizabeth > > > > -- > > Elizabeth Hilborn, DVM > > Bee Well Mobile Veterinary Services, PLLC > > beewellvet.com > > > > __________________ > > nafex mailing list > > nafex at lists.ibiblio.org > > Northamerican Allied Fruit Experimenters > > subscribe/unsubscribe|user config|list info: > > https://lists.ibiblio.org/mailman/listinfo/nafex > > > > ------------------------------ > > Subject: Digest Footer > > __________________ > nafex mailing list > nafex at lists.ibiblio.org > Northamerican Allied Fruit Experimenters > subscribe/unsubscribe|user config|list info: > https://lists.ibiblio.org/mailman/listinfo/nafex > > > ------------------------------ > > End of nafex Digest, Vol 242, Issue 1 > ************************************* > From ehilborn at mebtel.net Mon Nov 23 07:12:17 2020 From: ehilborn at mebtel.net (Elizabeth Hilborn) Date: Mon, 23 Nov 2020 07:12:17 -0500 Subject: [nafex] Elizabeth's grafted pawpaw sudden death In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <79a62467-107d-997e-449d-e2636c0834fa@mebtel.net> Thank you Patsy. I does almost seem like graft incompatibility, the way it has manifested among so many different trees and different time periods. But the rootstock is apparently from different places: I have purchased the trees from four different vendors, East and West coasts (Oregon, Virginia, Maryland, Kentucky). I need to get busy with scionwood this spring, I have so many dozens of seedlings/ sprouts now. It will be interesting to see what happens. Thank you for your thoughtful reply. Yes Ambrosia beetle. I had attacks on two grafted Chinese Chestnuts about 12 years ago. Very dramatic- covered with tiny tubes of frass/sawdust? on 2 inch caliper trunks. Cut and burned those trees. What a waste. On 11/23/2020 12:20 AM, Patsy King wrote: > I know nothing about pawpaws but wondered about graft incompatibility. A > google search brought up this response to somebody whose trees die in the > fall: (I put bold formatting on the pertinent part): > Several possibilities come to mind for the cause of your trees death. > Pawpaws require a well drained soil and we have had two wet seasons back to > back. Saturated soils make trees much more susceptible to Phytophthora root > rot. If the roots are dead this is probably the cause. This particular tree > may have been growing in an area where water pockets after a rain or in a > drainage area. *If the tree is a grafted one and the roots are alive (You > can cut through the bark with a knife and see green tissue), but the top of > the tree is dead the problem could be graft incompatibility with the > seedling rootstock. This can show up a number of years after planting.* > There is not much that can be done about this other than plant another > tree. Alternatively if you look very closely at the dead top of the tree > and see a multitude of pin head sized holes with what looks like a > toothpick sized extension from the hole of sawdust the problem is Ambrosia > beetle. This insect attacks trees that are growing less rapidly or are > stressed. A targeted spray program for this insect is needed if this is the > problem. > > The URL of the info above is: > https://ask.extension.org/questions/293442 > > > I found more fascinating info here, mentioning that pawpaws usually are not > grafted, and why. But it does tell how the writer did the grafting when he > tried. > http://rarefruitclub.org.au/Level2/GraftingPawpaws.htm > > Were your grafted trees all purchased ones? I was not able yet to find > out in some quick googling, what rootstocks/scions to use in order to avoid > graft incompatibility. > __________________ > -- Elizabeth Hilborn, DVM Bee Well Mobile Veterinary Services, PLLC beewellvet.com From ehilborn at mebtel.net Mon Nov 23 07:28:25 2020 From: ehilborn at mebtel.net (Elizabeth Hilborn) Date: Mon, 23 Nov 2020 07:28:25 -0500 Subject: [nafex] The heartbreak of grafted pawpaws In-Reply-To: <260D4F49-9D9B-49D3-9270-17644F4CA3DC@gmail.com> References: <863330486.288453.1606003966472@mail.yahoo.com> <460BB662-BB8F-4607-8BA9-15F5C87C5EAE@ginda.us> <3d1c6b80-d9c3-fade-fce1-b8bf44f80060@mebtel.net> <260D4F49-9D9B-49D3-9270-17644F4CA3DC@gmail.com> Message-ID: Hey Lee! Nice to hear from you, I hope that you are well! Yes, thank you. Water is not an issue in this case I believe. My shading system should not be either, but let me describe and tell me if you think it is too much. I plant new grafted trees in full sun. I take an opaque 4 foot high plastic tree tube and leave it as an open sheet. I set it like a screen on the SW corner of the plant so it gets AM full sun almost to 1pm then is shaded in our scorching summer afternoons. The shade is not full from the plastic, but sun intensity is much reduced. For others considering tree tubes for animal protection or whatnot- I tried leaving tree tubes as full enclosure tubes for a couple summers and killed pawpaw trees apparently by heat build up. It is better to leave big gaps for airflow in the sheet-type tubes. But in 7a central NC, I have better luck with sheets for shading pawpaws. I grow seedling pawpaws in tubes in 6a VA no problem, but I also leave big gaps in summer for airflow. Close up tight in winter. against vertebrates I realize as I write this, that I have grown (and killed) a LOT of pawpaws by this point! The seedlings and sprout transplants thrive. It is only the grafted ones that die (except for the Shenandoah who let me have such good fruit for a bit - just long enough to miss it now...) On 11/23/2020 6:08 AM, Lee Reich wrote: > Just a couple of comments on your pawpaw experience: > > ?Water attentively? is not necessarily watering correctly which is all important to the health of a plant. If the soil is well-drained, whih it should be, I generally recommend 3/4 gallon per square foot estimated spread of the root system, once a week. (More frequently for an initially planted potted tree which is, essentially, still growing in a pot until its roots reach out into surrounding soil. > > As far as shading, older trees do best in full sun. A grafted tree?s portion above the graft was taken from mature, fruiting wood, so its top portion is mature and will do best in full sun right from the get go. (I also have seen no definitive substantiation that even seedling trees need shade when young if given good soil conditions, which mostly means adequate moisture.) > > Lee > Lee Reich, PhD > Come visit my farmden at > http://www.leereich.com/blog > http://leereich.com > > Books by Lee Reich: > ?The Ever Curious Gardener: Using a Little Natural Science for a Much Better Garden > ?A Northeast Gardener?s Year > ?The Pruning Book > ?Weedless Gardening > ?Uncommon Fruits for every Garden > ?Landscaping with Fruit > ?Grow Fruit Naturally > >> On Nov 22, 2020, at 2:33 PM, Elizabeth Hilborn wrote: >> >> I planted my first pawpaws in 2009, I ordered the superior Peterson pawpaw varieties directly from Neil himself. One of four survived - a Shenandoah that was vigorous until 2015, then visibly declined. I removed the dead tree this summer. My working hypothesis was that the tree suffered a pruning injury back in 2013 or 2014 that became infected with fungus. That Shenandoah was an outlier, but it is the only grafted tree that has ever successfully matured fruit for me. It showed me how delicious selected pawpaws can be. >> >> Every other grafted pawpaw I have planted (about 16 of them) has died but for two five-year-old (at site) trees that are still less than 16 inches high. >> >> The typical scenario is that the plant will sit for a few years in my artificially shaded site as it becomes established. Then in its third or fourth year at site it starts rapid growth. Within a year to three years of putting on height, it flowers, maybe begins to set fruit (they do not always get this old) then midsummer, the leaves suddenly wilt and the tree dies within a few months. Post mortems reveal seemingly healthy roots, no trunk lesions, no discoloration of cambium. No clue. >> >> The kicker is that I have healthy seedlings all over the place. Some seedlings are seven years old, volunteers in the woods where I tossed overripe fruit. Some were planted intentionally. The rootstock sprouts well if I leave it and seems healthy. Rootstock has started producing fruit (not very good fruit). I have divided rootstock from dead grafted trees to start new patches with the hope of later grafting. I have not seen remaining rootstock, divided rootstock or seedlings die like the grafted varieties. >> >> How I care for them: >> >> I water attentively for a couple years after planting, then only when weather is unusually dry. I shade the young grafted trees for two - three years at site. I only plant trees in spring. I have tried planting at ground level and recently higher in mounds to discourage root rot (no indication of root rot, just varying procedures). >> >> I plant with no amendments in soil, but top with compost around the site. The trunks are not smothered. >> >> This year, I transferred soil from a native pawpaw patch in the woods to the struggling small grafted trees in the hope they would get something they needed. They still are struggling. I will see next year. >> >> Any ideas? Has anyone else dealt with this? >> >> Pawpawless in central NC zone 7a >> >> Elizabeth >> -- Elizabeth Hilborn, DVM Bee Well Mobile Veterinary Services, PLLC beewellvet.com From ehilborn at mebtel.net Mon Nov 23 07:32:38 2020 From: ehilborn at mebtel.net (Elizabeth Hilborn) Date: Mon, 23 Nov 2020 07:32:38 -0500 Subject: [nafex] Leaves in hole before fruit tree In-Reply-To: <2DE8099F-28A0-4C1E-8F67-E2C8121AE4F5@gmail.com> References: <2DE8099F-28A0-4C1E-8F67-E2C8121AE4F5@gmail.com> Message-ID: <7157423c-d65c-7dba-abe6-2955f1005595@mebtel.net> I echo Lee's advice. I never amend holes now, I plant in soil as it lays and top dress. My first experience growing fruit trees I amended all (very big) holes. They lasted about 12 years, got quite large, but when they started dying, a post mortem revealed roots did not penetrate beyond the original hole diameter. On 11/23/2020 6:13 AM, Lee Reich wrote: > And any material that dramatically changes the soil porosity creates a ?pot in the ground? effect wherein roots stay inn the amended soil -- Elizabeth Hilborn, DVM Bee Well Mobile Veterinary Services, PLLC beewellvet.com From lpittman at murraystate.edu Mon Nov 23 07:36:31 2020 From: lpittman at murraystate.edu (Louis Pittman) Date: Mon, 23 Nov 2020 06:36:31 -0600 Subject: [nafex] Elizabeth's grafted pawpaw sudden death In-Reply-To: <79a62467-107d-997e-449d-e2636c0834fa@mebtel.net> References: <79a62467-107d-997e-449d-e2636c0834fa@mebtel.net> Message-ID: Gotta be aware when reading articles about pawpaw from other countries, like the Australian one earlier in this thread, that everywhere else other than North America, 'pawpaw' is generally considered to be Carica papaya, which we call papaya. On Mon, Nov 23, 2020, 6:12 AM Elizabeth Hilborn wrote: > Thank you Patsy. > > I does almost seem like graft incompatibility, the way it has manifested > among so many different trees and different time periods. But the > rootstock is apparently from different places: I have purchased the > trees from four different vendors, East and West coasts (Oregon, > Virginia, Maryland, Kentucky). > > I need to get busy with scionwood this spring, I have so many dozens of > seedlings/ sprouts now. It will be interesting to see what happens. > > Thank you for your thoughtful reply. > > Yes Ambrosia beetle. I had attacks on two grafted Chinese Chestnuts > about 12 years ago. Very dramatic- covered with tiny tubes of > frass/sawdust on 2 inch caliper trunks. Cut and burned those trees. > What a waste. > > On 11/23/2020 12:20 AM, Patsy King wrote: > > I know nothing about pawpaws but wondered about graft incompatibility. A > > google search brought up this response to somebody whose trees die in the > > fall: (I put bold formatting on the pertinent part): > > Several possibilities come to mind for the cause of your trees death. > > Pawpaws require a well drained soil and we have had two wet seasons back > to > > back. Saturated soils make trees much more susceptible to Phytophthora > root > > rot. If the roots are dead this is probably the cause. This particular > tree > > may have been growing in an area where water pockets after a rain or in a > > drainage area. *If the tree is a grafted one and the roots are alive (You > > can cut through the bark with a knife and see green tissue), but the top > of > > the tree is dead the problem could be graft incompatibility with the > > seedling rootstock. This can show up a number of years after planting.* > > There is not much that can be done about this other than plant another > > tree. Alternatively if you look very closely at the dead top of the tree > > and see a multitude of pin head sized holes with what looks like a > > toothpick sized extension from the hole of sawdust the problem is > Ambrosia > > beetle. This insect attacks trees that are growing less rapidly or are > > stressed. A targeted spray program for this insect is needed if this is > the > > problem. > > > > The URL of the info above is: > > https://ask.extension.org/questions/293442 > > > > > > I found more fascinating info here, mentioning that pawpaws usually are > not > > grafted, and why. But it does tell how the writer did the grafting when > he > > tried. > > http://rarefruitclub.org.au/Level2/GraftingPawpaws.htm > > > > Were your grafted trees all purchased ones? I was not able yet to find > > out in some quick googling, what rootstocks/scions to use in order to > avoid > > graft incompatibility. > > __________________ > > > > -- > Elizabeth Hilborn, DVM > Bee Well Mobile Veterinary Services, PLLC > beewellvet.com > > __________________ > nafex mailing list > nafex at lists.ibiblio.org > Northamerican Allied Fruit Experimenters > subscribe/unsubscribe|user config|list info: > https://lists.ibiblio.org/mailman/listinfo/nafex > From alandhaigh at gmail.com Mon Nov 23 07:40:55 2020 From: alandhaigh at gmail.com (Alan Haigh) Date: Mon, 23 Nov 2020 07:40:55 -0500 Subject: [nafex] paw-paw graft incompatibility Message-ID: If you want to know about the possibility of graft incompatibility ask a nursery owner that grafts a wide range of paw-paw varieties, it would probably be more useful than searching the literature. Nick England or Mike McKonkey come to mind. I find this theory doubtful only because I haven't heard of it being a problem when reading comments over the years of scores of hobbyists that regularly graft them. Sometimes the people that do have information that people that read about doing don't. From rosholdt at erols.com Mon Nov 23 07:46:38 2020 From: rosholdt at erols.com (Rosholdt) Date: Mon, 23 Nov 2020 07:46:38 -0500 Subject: [nafex] nafex Digest, Vol 242, Issue 6 - this is confusing! When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific, than "Re: Contents of nafex digest..." In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On 11/23/2020 7:36 AM, nafex-request at lists.ibiblio.org wrote: > When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific > than "Re: Contents of nafex digest..." From growyourown at earthlink.net Mon Nov 23 06:18:40 2020 From: growyourown at earthlink.net (mark wessel) Date: Mon, 23 Nov 2020 06:18:40 -0500 Subject: [nafex] fruit for part shade In-Reply-To: References: <863330486.288453.1606003966472@mail.yahoo.com> <460BB662-BB8F-4607-8BA9-15F5C87C5EAE@ginda.us> <07772D6B-6D2A-489E-BF3F-4724A6FF8A21@ginda.us> Message-ID: <9C2AE9E3-3436-4D61-8D35-BF9A110AAA51@earthlink.net> Haskaps and Ribes do well in part shade in sw Ohio. Mark > On Nov 22, 2020, at 8:14 PM, Peter Chrisbacher wrote: > > An invasive that I love and that seems to thrive in full shade to part sun > is wineberry. If it's not already invasively established in your area I > wouldn't recommend planting it; if it's already around, consider it. > > -Pete > > On Sun, Nov 22, 2020, 1:54 PM Ginda Fisher wrote: > >> Has anyone selected for tasty kousa dogwood? I have sampled several, and >> they range from pretty tasty to having nasty flavors. I wouldn't plant one >> for fruit without knowing something about the flavor of that cultivar. >> -- >> Ginda >> typed with Swype, who knows what I intended. >> >> >> On November 22, 2020 1:41:55 PM EST, Mary Yett wrote: >>> Try pawpaw, persimmon, taller elderberry varieties (some are tree >>> sized), >>> kousa dogwood, high bush cranberry, and of course the estimable cornus >>> mas. >>> >>> Mary Yett >>> Tree of Life Permaculture Farm >>> Ontario,Canada >>> Canadian zone 4B (USDA Zone 3 ) >>> >>> On Sat., Nov. 21, 2020, 8:58 p.m. John Holzwart, < >>> plantbasedservices at gmail.com> wrote: >>> >>>> Henry, >>>> >>>> I think you know what I'm going to suggest. Lol. I second Cornus mas. >>>> >>>> Little John >>>> >>>> >>>> On Sat, Nov 21, 2020, 7:23 PM Ginda Fisher wrote: >>>> >>>>> Cornus mas. It's a fruiting dogwood. I have some. It does okay with >>> light >>>>> shade. >>>>> >>>>> I'm in zone 6, i don't know how cold hardy it is. >>>>> -- >>>>> Ginda >>>>> typed with Swype, who knows what I intended. >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> On November 21, 2020 7:12:46 PM EST, Henry via nafex < >>>>> nafex at lists.ibiblio.org> wrote: >>>>>> Any recommendations for part shade? >>>>>> >>>>>> We have been removing buckthorn, but we don't want to remove the >>>>>> canopy. >>>>>> >>>>>> We have elm, cherry and oak, but it opens up a lot when the >>> buckthorn >>>>>> is gone. >>>>>> >>>>>> Dogwood is the primary native understory. Would like to add some >>> useful >>>>>> fruit. >>>>>> >>>>>> --Henry Fieldseth >>>>>> Minneapolis, Minnesota, zone 4 >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> __________________ >>>>>> nafex mailing list >>>>>> nafex at lists.ibiblio.org >>>>>> Northamerican Allied Fruit Experimenters >>>>>> subscribe/unsubscribe|user config|list info: >>>>>> https://lists.ibiblio.org/mailman/listinfo/nafex >>>>> __________________ >>>>> nafex mailing list >>>>> nafex at lists.ibiblio.org >>>>> Northamerican Allied Fruit Experimenters >>>>> subscribe/unsubscribe|user config|list info: >>>>> https://lists.ibiblio.org/mailman/listinfo/nafex >>>>> >>>> __________________ >>>> nafex mailing list >>>> nafex at lists.ibiblio.org >>>> Northamerican Allied Fruit Experimenters >>>> subscribe/unsubscribe|user config|list info: >>>> https://lists.ibiblio.org/mailman/listinfo/nafex >>>> >>> __________________ >>> nafex mailing list >>> nafex at lists.ibiblio.org >>> Northamerican Allied Fruit Experimenters >>> subscribe/unsubscribe|user config|list info: >>> https://lists.ibiblio.org/mailman/listinfo/nafex >> __________________ >> nafex mailing list >> nafex at lists.ibiblio.org >> Northamerican Allied Fruit Experimenters >> subscribe/unsubscribe|user config|list info: >> https://lists.ibiblio.org/mailman/listinfo/nafex >> > __________________ > nafex mailing list > nafex at lists.ibiblio.org > Northamerican Allied Fruit Experimenters > subscribe/unsubscribe|user config|list info: > https://lists.ibiblio.org/mailman/listinfo/nafex From rosholdt at erols.com Mon Nov 23 07:33:31 2020 From: rosholdt at erols.com (Rosholdt) Date: Mon, 23 Nov 2020 07:33:31 -0500 Subject: [nafex] This list still works, as before. In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <8e0cbe87-1f3a-3107-2b87-415bf766e77d@erols.com> Subject: Re: [nafex] This nafex list From: Megan Lynch Date: 11/21/2020, 12:51 AM To: mailing list at ibiblio - Northamerican Allied Fruit Experimenters The only reason I haven't posted is because people said they were folding up the list. I think the list where it is is way better than FB could ever be. Megan On 11/21/2020 12:52 AM, nafex-request at lists.ibiblio.org wrote: > This list still works, as before. I AGREE!? With all the FB censorship, this is great! From list at ginda.us Mon Nov 23 08:19:00 2020 From: list at ginda.us (Ginda Fisher) Date: Mon, 23 Nov 2020 08:19:00 -0500 Subject: [nafex] Leaves in hole before fruit tree In-Reply-To: <7157423c-d65c-7dba-abe6-2955f1005595@mebtel.net> References: <2DE8099F-28A0-4C1E-8F67-E2C8121AE4F5@gmail.com> <7157423c-d65c-7dba-abe6-2955f1005595@mebtel.net> Message-ID: <3E439655-C2D2-4AB0-837A-3A70BC48912E@ginda.us> I?m curious what others think of what I?ve been doing recently. I have reasonably nice soil, but it?s full of rock of all different sizes, some large. So digging holes is very hard work. And I understand that it?s important not to bend the roots of a young plant back on itself. So I?ve been digging a small hole for the ?core" of the plant, and spreading out the roots on the top of the soil, and then digging a small trench for each root, often with a trowel. For instance, I planted some apple rootstock that was basically a stick with half a dozen long thread-like roots. So I dug a star, and spread out each root thread in a different direction. It?s a lot less digging. If I hit a large rock, I can guide the root around it. I?ve planted tree peonies, apples, and hazelnuts this way. Nothing that I?ve planted that way has seemed to die of it, yet. (Plants that died mostly did so because a deer ate the whole plant. A tree peonies developed some fungal disease.) But I feel a little guilty when I do this. Wishing you all a safe Thanksgiving, Ginda Fisher eastern MA, zone 6 > On Nov 23, 2020, at 7:32 AM, Elizabeth Hilborn wrote: > > I echo Lee's advice. I never amend holes now, I plant in soil as it lays and top dress. > > My first experience growing fruit trees I amended all (very big) holes. They lasted about 12 years, got quite large, but when they started dying, a post mortem revealed roots did not penetrate beyond the original hole diameter. > > On 11/23/2020 6:13 AM, Lee Reich wrote: >> And any material that dramatically changes the soil porosity creates a ?pot in the ground? effect wherein roots stay inn the amended soil > From lpittman at murraystate.edu Mon Nov 23 08:25:13 2020 From: lpittman at murraystate.edu (Louis Pittman) Date: Mon, 23 Nov 2020 07:25:13 -0600 Subject: [nafex] Leaves in hole before fruit tree In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: I'm with the others - no amendments. Early on in my orcharding career, I dug those $100 dollar holes and amended with peat and composted sheep manure... creating a 'bathtub' in my GOOD CLAY SOIL that essentially drowned the grafted pecans I'd purchased. I have really nice soil, with few rocks, and any more, I dig a $5 hole for a $10 tree. On Sun, Nov 22, 2020 at 7:46 PM DB wrote: > I am wondering if putting some dead leaves (that time of year) into the > bottom of a hole before planting a tree would be of any benefit and add > some biology to the clay. > I have thick clay just a few inches down and want to do something to jump > start the soil for when I plant the fruit > trees > (seedlings) in the > spring. Pawpaw and American Persimmon. > Since I have a concern with large rocks being just below the surface I will > use a small backhoe to dig holes a couple feet deep and then fill the holes > back in. > I have ordered some expanded shale and was thinking of using some of the > many oak leaves that get placed on the streets here. > Would vermiculite or something else help here? > Looking at a $100 hole for a $10 tree. > __________________ > nafex mailing list > nafex at lists.ibiblio.org > Northamerican Allied Fruit Experimenters > subscribe/unsubscribe|user config|list info: > https://lists.ibiblio.org/mailman/listinfo/nafex > From lpittman at murraystate.edu Mon Nov 23 08:37:10 2020 From: lpittman at murraystate.edu (Louis Pittman) Date: Mon, 23 Nov 2020 07:37:10 -0600 Subject: [nafex] The heartbreak of grafted pawpaws In-Reply-To: References: <863330486.288453.1606003966472@mail.yahoo.com> <460BB662-BB8F-4607-8BA9-15F5C87C5EAE@ginda.us> <3d1c6b80-d9c3-fade-fce1-b8bf44f80060@mebtel.net> Message-ID: The late John H. Gordon, Jr. opined, back in the 1990s, that if he were 30 years younger and starting over, that he would, rather than outplant grafted pawpaws, select the largest-leaved seedlings of named selections and plant those out. Pawpaw fruits from named-parentage seedlings are quite similar in most respects to those of the parent variety. Coming from an orchard with multiple superior varieties to serve as potential parents, resulting seedlings would certainly have a genetic 'head-start' with regard to fruit quality &/or productivity. I've experienced death &/or decline/regression of pawpaw grafts over a few years after transplant - and even when grafted into well-established seedlings. I've largely lost most of my desire to consume much pawpaw fruit, but do have a half-dozen or so named-parentage seedlings planted in a low spot alongside my driveway, with a few named varieties grafted in here and there - at this point, I can't even identify the grafts or the varieties, though I know Mango and Overleese are in there somewhere. Still, periodically, sections of a tree will die out - and if that was a graft... it's gone. Many of the pawpaws I've outplanted here were either 'imprisoned' for a couple of years in 20 oz (or even smaller!) styrofoam cups or in mass-plantings in 3-gallon pots. I have just whacked off the masses of circling roots in the bottom and transplanted, just as they're breaking dormancy; again, there is nothing magical about a taproot, on any species. No artificial shade provided, and even those in full sun, not under a canopy of larger trees, have done well. Lucky Pittman On Sun, Nov 22, 2020 at 10:34 PM Fred Bruns wrote: > One solution might be to plant seeds from a known variety and hope that at > least some of the seedlings are similar to the parent. I have seeds from > Shenandoah with the male parent probably being Pennsylvania Golden. > > I had a grafted tree fail to sprout one spring. It was fairly large, about > 10 feet wide and 15 feet tall. It didn't produce suckers after the top > died, so I presume the roots died during the fall or winter. > > For what it's worth, you can find wild pawpaws near just about every stream > here in central Indiana. The underlying rock is limestone, so I doubt > they require acidic soil. > > On Sun, Nov 22, 2020 at 3:40 PM Mike Levine wrote: > > > Sounds like your are mostly doing the right things. > > Only 1-2 year old seedlings need shade. If they are grafted they ready > for > > full sun, but want regular irrigation. I find the best time to > transplant > > is after they have leafed out, but before the leaves are full size. > > What is your soil texture? If it's very well drained maybe water more > > often or more deeply? They don't like to dry out too much > > Have you checked your pH? Some folks say it needs acidic soil, but I > > haven't had an issue with our alkaline soils. > > I hope we can help figure out why they are dying. > > > > Best, > > Mike Levine > > www.natureandnurtureseeds.com > > > > On Sun, Nov 22, 2020, 2:42 PM DB wrote: > > > > > Two possibilities. Boulders or high water. I have both. I have two > > > spots where water will raise to the top and stay for weeks or months. > I > > > now plant raised mounds. > > > > > > On Sun, Nov 22, 2020, 1:33 PM Elizabeth Hilborn > > > wrote: > > > > > > > I planted my first pawpaws in 2009, I ordered the superior Peterson > > > > pawpaw varieties directly from Neil himself. One of four survived - a > > > > Shenandoah that was vigorous until 2015, then visibly declined. I > > > > removed the dead tree this summer. My working hypothesis was that the > > > > tree suffered a pruning injury back in 2013 or 2014 that became > > infected > > > > with fungus. That Shenandoah was an outlier, but it is the only > grafted > > > > tree that has ever successfully matured fruit for me. It showed me > how > > > > delicious selected pawpaws can be. > > > > > > > > Every other grafted pawpaw I have planted (about 16 of them) has died > > > > but for two five-year-old (at site) trees that are still less than 16 > > > > inches high. > > > > > > > > The typical scenario is that the plant will sit for a few years in my > > > > artificially shaded site as it becomes established. Then in its third > > or > > > > fourth year at site it starts rapid growth. Within a year to three > > years > > > > of putting on height, it flowers, maybe begins to set fruit (they do > > not > > > > always get this old) then midsummer, the leaves suddenly wilt and the > > > > tree dies within a few months. Post mortems reveal seemingly healthy > > > > roots, no trunk lesions, no discoloration of cambium. No clue. > > > > > > > > The kicker is that I have healthy seedlings all over the place. Some > > > > seedlings are seven years old, volunteers in the woods where I tossed > > > > overripe fruit. Some were planted intentionally. The rootstock > sprouts > > > > well if I leave it and seems healthy. Rootstock has started producing > > > > fruit (not very good fruit). I have divided rootstock from dead > grafted > > > > trees to start new patches with the hope of later grafting. I have > not > > > > seen remaining rootstock, divided rootstock or seedlings die like the > > > > grafted varieties. > > > > > > > > How I care for them: > > > > > > > > I water attentively for a couple years after planting, then only when > > > > weather is unusually dry. I shade the young grafted trees for two - > > > > three years at site. I only plant trees in spring. I have tried > > planting > > > > at ground level and recently higher in mounds to discourage root rot > > (no > > > > indication of root rot, just varying procedures). > > > > > > > > I plant with no amendments in soil, but top with compost around the > > > > site. The trunks are not smothered. > > > > > > > > This year, I transferred soil from a native pawpaw patch in the woods > > to > > > > the struggling small grafted trees in the hope they would get > something > > > > they needed. They still are struggling. I will see next year. > > > > > > > > Any ideas? Has anyone else dealt with this? > > > > > > > > Pawpawless in central NC zone 7a > > > > > > > > Elizabeth > > > > > > > > -- > > > > Elizabeth Hilborn, DVM > > > > Bee Well Mobile Veterinary Services, PLLC > > > > beewellvet.com > > > > > > > > __________________ > > > > nafex mailing list > > > > nafex at lists.ibiblio.org > > > > Northamerican Allied Fruit Experimenters > > > > subscribe/unsubscribe|user config|list info: > > > > https://lists.ibiblio.org/mailman/listinfo/nafex > > > > > > > __________________ > > > nafex mailing list > > > nafex at lists.ibiblio.org > > > Northamerican Allied Fruit Experimenters > > > subscribe/unsubscribe|user config|list info: > > > https://lists.ibiblio.org/mailman/listinfo/nafex > > > > > __________________ > > nafex mailing list > > nafex at lists.ibiblio.org > > Northamerican Allied Fruit Experimenters > > subscribe/unsubscribe|user config|list info: > > https://lists.ibiblio.org/mailman/listinfo/nafex > > > __________________ > nafex mailing list > nafex at lists.ibiblio.org > Northamerican Allied Fruit Experimenters > subscribe/unsubscribe|user config|list info: > https://lists.ibiblio.org/mailman/listinfo/nafex > From alandhaigh at gmail.com Mon Nov 23 08:43:49 2020 From: alandhaigh at gmail.com (Alan Haigh) Date: Mon, 23 Nov 2020 08:43:49 -0500 Subject: [nafex] nafex Digest, Vol 242, Issue 9 In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On digging trenches for individual roots for bare root transplant: I have a nursery that produces bearing age, 2.5" diam. well branched 12' tall fruit trees that I grow and transplant with over half of my inventory being bare root. The diameter of the root systems can sometimes be as much as 8'- with peaches that means a very rigid 8'. Some roots may extend 6' from the trunk. Digging trenches for such roots is standard procedure for us and has been for years. Often we simply lift the sod with a little soil and pull the roots underneath creating a nice shallow root system that over the years has served trees very well. Sometimes peach trees act as though they weren't even transplanted and can hold good crops the first season after transplant. Same with J. plums, but other species will tend to need a season to recover. After planting shallow we dress trees with a 6 cu' ft wheelbarrow of compost covered with same of shredded wood mulch. Forest soil tends to be a parfait and not homogenous like prairie soil and I find trees tend to thrive in an approximation of that. On Mon, Nov 23, 2020 at 8:21 AM wrote: > Send nafex mailing list submissions to > nafex at lists.ibiblio.org > > To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit > https://lists.ibiblio.org/mailman/listinfo/nafex > or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to > nafex-request at lists.ibiblio.org > > You can reach the person managing the list at > nafex-owner at lists.ibiblio.org > > When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific > than "Re: Contents of nafex digest..." > > > Today's Topics: > > 1. This list still works, as before. (Rosholdt) > 2. Re: Leaves in hole before fruit tree (Ginda Fisher) > > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > > Message: 1 > Date: Mon, 23 Nov 2020 07:33:31 -0500 > From: Rosholdt > To: nafex at lists.ibiblio.org > Subject: [nafex] This list still works, as before. > Message-ID: <8e0cbe87-1f3a-3107-2b87-415bf766e77d at erols.com> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252; format=flowed > > Subject: > Re: [nafex] This nafex list > From: > Megan Lynch > Date: > 11/21/2020, 12:51 AM > > To: > mailing list at ibiblio - Northamerican Allied Fruit Experimenters > > > > The only reason I haven't posted is because people said they were folding > up the list. I think the list where it is is way better than FB could ever > be. > > Megan > > On 11/21/2020 12:52 AM, nafex-request at lists.ibiblio.org wrote: > > This list still works, as before. > > > > I AGREE!? With all the FB censorship, this is great! > > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 2 > Date: Mon, 23 Nov 2020 08:19:00 -0500 > From: Ginda Fisher > To: NAFEX Fruit Explorers > Subject: Re: [nafex] Leaves in hole before fruit tree > Message-ID: <3E439655-C2D2-4AB0-837A-3A70BC48912E at ginda.us> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 > > I?m curious what others think of what I?ve been doing recently. I have > reasonably nice soil, but it?s full of rock of all different sizes, some > large. So digging holes is very hard work. And I understand that it?s > important not to bend the roots of a young plant back on itself. So I?ve > been digging a small hole for the ?core" of the plant, and spreading out > the roots on the top of the soil, and then digging a small trench for each > root, often with a trowel. For instance, I planted some apple rootstock > that was basically a stick with half a dozen long thread-like roots. So I > dug a star, and spread out each root thread in a different direction. > > It?s a lot less digging. If I hit a large rock, I can guide the root > around it. I?ve planted tree peonies, apples, and hazelnuts this way. > > Nothing that I?ve planted that way has seemed to die of it, yet. (Plants > that died mostly did so because a deer ate the whole plant. A tree peonies > developed some fungal disease.) But I feel a little guilty when I do this. > > Wishing you all a safe Thanksgiving, > Ginda Fisher > eastern MA, zone 6 > > > On Nov 23, 2020, at 7:32 AM, Elizabeth Hilborn > wrote: > > > > I echo Lee's advice. I never amend holes now, I plant in soil as it lays > and top dress. > > > > My first experience growing fruit trees I amended all (very big) holes. > They lasted about 12 years, got quite large, but when they started dying, a > post mortem revealed roots did not penetrate beyond the original hole > diameter. > > > > On 11/23/2020 6:13 AM, Lee Reich wrote: > >> And any material that dramatically changes the soil porosity creates a > ?pot in the ground? effect wherein roots stay inn the amended soil > > > > > > ------------------------------ > > Subject: Digest Footer > > __________________ > nafex mailing list > nafex at lists.ibiblio.org > Northamerican Allied Fruit Experimenters > subscribe/unsubscribe|user config|list info: > https://lists.ibiblio.org/mailman/listinfo/nafex > > > ------------------------------ > > End of nafex Digest, Vol 242, Issue 9 > ************************************* > From ramoyer at gmail.com Mon Nov 23 09:02:11 2020 From: ramoyer at gmail.com (Richard Moyer) Date: Mon, 23 Nov 2020 09:02:11 -0500 Subject: [nafex] nafex Digest, Vol 242, Issue 9 In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Ginda, For last 13 yrs, been digging up and removing autumn olive, ailanthus, multiflora rose, privet, etc on our farm. Rocky parts of our farm, the roots of these healthy plants run over and around rock, large and small, to get to pockets of deeper soil. So seems to me you're doing what young seedling trees would be doing from the start: sending out feeler roots to find those areas where there's room to grow... While on sabbatical in Korea, when wandering around Yonsei campus in Seoul, I often saw campus landscape crew transplanting large, native forsythia and weigela. When shaping these round rootballs into the abundant rock crevices on campus hillsides; they sure had a different idea of a "proper planting hole" than I did. Once the weather warmed and we saw these plants growing wild as we hiked, we realized the landscapers were merely placing the plants as they grew in the wild. Korean culture is 5000 yrs old. Even at my 60 yrs, I'm content to leave more rocks in place and learn to work around them! Grace and peace, Richard Eating apple crisp for breakfast: Liberty, Enterprise and seedling apples from our farm. Message: 2 > Date: Mon, 23 Nov 2020 08:19:00 -0500 > From: Ginda Fisher > To: NAFEX Fruit Explorers > Subject: Re: [nafex] Leaves in hole before fruit tree > Message-ID: <3E439655-C2D2-4AB0-837A-3A70BC48912E at ginda.us> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 > > I?m curious what others think of what I?ve been doing recently. I have > reasonably nice soil, but it?s full of rock of all different sizes, some > large. So digging holes is very hard work. And I understand that it?s > important not to bend the roots of a young plant back on itself. So I?ve > been digging a small hole for the ?core" of the plant, and spreading out > the roots on the top of the soil, and then digging a small trench for each > root, often with a trowel. For instance, I planted some apple rootstock > that was basically a stick with half a dozen long thread-like roots. So I > dug a star, and spread out each root thread in a different direction. > > It?s a lot less digging. If I hit a large rock, I can guide the root > around it. I?ve planted tree peonies, apples, and hazelnuts this way. > > Nothing that I?ve planted that way has seemed to die of it, yet. (Plants > that died mostly did so because a deer ate the whole plant. A tree peonies > developed some fungal disease.) But I feel a little guilty when I do this. > > Wishing you all a safe Thanksgiving, > Ginda Fisher > eastern MA, zone 6 > > > On Nov 23, 2020, at 7:32 AM, Elizabeth Hilborn > wrote: > > > > I echo Lee's advice. I never amend holes now, I plant in soil as it lays > and top dress. > > > > My first experience growing fruit trees I amended all (very big) holes. > They lasted about 12 years, got quite large, but when they started dying, a > post mortem revealed roots did not penetrate beyond the original hole > diameter. > > > > On 11/23/2020 6:13 AM, Lee Reich wrote: > >> And any material that dramatically changes the soil porosity creates a > ?pot in the ground? effect wherein roots stay inn the amended soil > > > > From growyourown at earthlink.net Mon Nov 23 09:14:04 2020 From: growyourown at earthlink.net (mark wessel) Date: Mon, 23 Nov 2020 09:14:04 -0500 Subject: [nafex] nafex Digest, Vol 242, Issue 9 In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <6F2E29C1-DFFD-49FC-803B-A43316B76C08@earthlink.net> Alan How does the nursery dig these long rooted trees? Do they use an air knife? I have several trees that were budded three years ago and need to move them out of the nursery and into the orchard. Would love to get this done soon. Should I wait until late winter or do think it is safe to do now? Southern Ohio zone 6. Mark > On Nov 23, 2020, at 8:43 AM, Alan Haigh wrote: > > On digging trenches for individual roots for bare root transplant: > > I have a nursery that produces bearing age, 2.5" diam. well branched 12' > tall fruit trees that I grow and transplant with over half of my inventory > being bare root. The diameter of the root systems can sometimes be as much > as 8'- with peaches that means a very rigid 8'. Some roots may extend 6' > from the trunk. > > Digging trenches for such roots is standard procedure for us and has been > for years. Often we simply lift the sod with a little soil and pull the > roots underneath creating a nice shallow root system that over the years > has served trees very well. Sometimes peach trees act as though they > weren't even transplanted and can hold good crops the first season after > transplant. Same with J. plums, but other species will tend to need a > season to recover. > > After planting shallow we dress trees with a 6 cu' ft wheelbarrow of > compost covered with same of shredded wood mulch. Forest soil tends to be > a parfait and not homogenous like prairie soil and I find trees tend to > thrive in an approximation of that. > > On Mon, Nov 23, 2020 at 8:21 AM wrote: > >> Send nafex mailing list submissions to >> nafex at lists.ibiblio.org >> >> To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit >> https://lists.ibiblio.org/mailman/listinfo/nafex >> or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to >> nafex-request at lists.ibiblio.org >> >> You can reach the person managing the list at >> nafex-owner at lists.ibiblio.org >> >> When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific >> than "Re: Contents of nafex digest..." >> >> >> Today's Topics: >> >> 1. This list still works, as before. (Rosholdt) >> 2. Re: Leaves in hole before fruit tree (Ginda Fisher) >> >> >> ---------------------------------------------------------------------- >> >> Message: 1 >> Date: Mon, 23 Nov 2020 07:33:31 -0500 >> From: Rosholdt >> To: nafex at lists.ibiblio.org >> Subject: [nafex] This list still works, as before. >> Message-ID: <8e0cbe87-1f3a-3107-2b87-415bf766e77d at erols.com> >> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252; format=flowed >> >> Subject: >> Re: [nafex] This nafex list >> From: >> Megan Lynch >> Date: >> 11/21/2020, 12:51 AM >> >> To: >> mailing list at ibiblio - Northamerican Allied Fruit Experimenters >> >> >> >> The only reason I haven't posted is because people said they were folding >> up the list. I think the list where it is is way better than FB could ever >> be. >> >> Megan >> >> On 11/21/2020 12:52 AM, nafex-request at lists.ibiblio.org wrote: >>> This list still works, as before. >> >> >> >> I AGREE!? With all the FB censorship, this is great! >> >> >> >> ------------------------------ >> >> Message: 2 >> Date: Mon, 23 Nov 2020 08:19:00 -0500 >> From: Ginda Fisher >> To: NAFEX Fruit Explorers >> Subject: Re: [nafex] Leaves in hole before fruit tree >> Message-ID: <3E439655-C2D2-4AB0-837A-3A70BC48912E at ginda.us> >> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 >> >> I?m curious what others think of what I?ve been doing recently. I have >> reasonably nice soil, but it?s full of rock of all different sizes, some >> large. So digging holes is very hard work. And I understand that it?s >> important not to bend the roots of a young plant back on itself. So I?ve >> been digging a small hole for the ?core" of the plant, and spreading out >> the roots on the top of the soil, and then digging a small trench for each >> root, often with a trowel. For instance, I planted some apple rootstock >> that was basically a stick with half a dozen long thread-like roots. So I >> dug a star, and spread out each root thread in a different direction. >> >> It?s a lot less digging. If I hit a large rock, I can guide the root >> around it. I?ve planted tree peonies, apples, and hazelnuts this way. >> >> Nothing that I?ve planted that way has seemed to die of it, yet. (Plants >> that died mostly did so because a deer ate the whole plant. A tree peonies >> developed some fungal disease.) But I feel a little guilty when I do this. >> >> Wishing you all a safe Thanksgiving, >> Ginda Fisher >> eastern MA, zone 6 >> >>> On Nov 23, 2020, at 7:32 AM, Elizabeth Hilborn >> wrote: >>> >>> I echo Lee's advice. I never amend holes now, I plant in soil as it lays >> and top dress. >>> >>> My first experience growing fruit trees I amended all (very big) holes. >> They lasted about 12 years, got quite large, but when they started dying, a >> post mortem revealed roots did not penetrate beyond the original hole >> diameter. >>> >>> On 11/23/2020 6:13 AM, Lee Reich wrote: >>>> And any material that dramatically changes the soil porosity creates a >> ?pot in the ground? effect wherein roots stay inn the amended soil >>> >> >> >> >> ------------------------------ >> >> Subject: Digest Footer >> >> __________________ >> nafex mailing list >> nafex at lists.ibiblio.org >> Northamerican Allied Fruit Experimenters >> subscribe/unsubscribe|user config|list info: >> https://lists.ibiblio.org/mailman/listinfo/nafex >> >> >> ------------------------------ >> >> End of nafex Digest, Vol 242, Issue 9 >> ************************************* >> > __________________ > nafex mailing list > nafex at lists.ibiblio.org > Northamerican Allied Fruit Experimenters > subscribe/unsubscribe|user config|list info: > https://lists.ibiblio.org/mailman/listinfo/nafex From alandhaigh at gmail.com Mon Nov 23 09:33:19 2020 From: alandhaigh at gmail.com (Alan Haigh) Date: Mon, 23 Nov 2020 09:33:19 -0500 Subject: [nafex] How does the nursery dig these long rooted trees? Message-ID: Mark, we use a cultivating (potato) fork and a King of Spades long handled and bladed spade. We also plant trees over a sheet of plastic to encourage shallow rooting but haven't always done that. It can take up to 30 minutes to dig up a single tree and we are digging today and will be able to until the ground freezes. I believe the compost and mulch dressing reduces the chance of winter injury. Cycles of freeze and thaw could otherwise be a problem. From growyourown at earthlink.net Mon Nov 23 09:40:06 2020 From: growyourown at earthlink.net (mark wessel) Date: Mon, 23 Nov 2020 09:40:06 -0500 Subject: [nafex] How does the nursery dig these long rooted trees? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <5CA07F30-A264-42A0-A293-41B9F18A95BC@earthlink.net> Great info, I will go ahead and dig tomorrow. Thanks > On Nov 23, 2020, at 9:33 AM, Alan Haigh wrote: > > Mark, we use a cultivating (potato) fork and a King of Spades long handled > and bladed spade. We also plant trees over a sheet of plastic to encourage > shallow rooting but haven't always done that. It can take up to 30 minutes > to dig up a single tree and we are digging today and will be able to until > the ground freezes. I believe the compost and mulch dressing reduces the > chance of winter injury. Cycles of freeze and thaw could otherwise be a > problem. > __________________ > nafex mailing list > nafex at lists.ibiblio.org > Northamerican Allied Fruit Experimenters > subscribe/unsubscribe|user config|list info: > https://lists.ibiblio.org/mailman/listinfo/nafex From abreuer at 3rivers.net Mon Nov 23 11:27:08 2020 From: abreuer at 3rivers.net (Abigail Breuer) Date: Mon, 23 Nov 2020 09:27:08 -0700 Subject: [nafex] Fruit for part shade In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <005001d6c1b5$7deb43e0$79c1cba0$@3rivers.net> I have had luck with the same plants in nearly full shade in SW Montana. Also, I have been amazed that the yellow flowering current (not sure if it's Ribes oderatum or Ribes aureum, and apparently there is some debate about these) that were planted bare root have turned into lovely small shrubs with tasty fruit with < 1 hr of dappled light. Abigail -----Original Message----- From: nafex On Behalf Of Sam Brungardt Sent: Saturday, November 21, 2020 11:35 PM To: nafex at lists.ibiblio.org Subject: [nafex] Fruit for part shade I live in St. Paul and have grown some small fruits that do well in areas near trees as long as they get a few hours of sunlight a day. The most shade-tolerant are gooseberries and red and black currants. They should bear well for you, but would do best if the weeds are kept down for at least a couple of feet around each plant. They will also need some irrigation should we have have a dry spell. __________________ nafex mailing list nafex at lists.ibiblio.org Northamerican Allied Fruit Experimenters subscribe/unsubscribe|user config|list info: https://lists.ibiblio.org/mailman/listinfo/nafex From ehilborn at mebtel.net Mon Nov 23 15:31:00 2020 From: ehilborn at mebtel.net (Elizabeth Hilborn) Date: Mon, 23 Nov 2020 15:31:00 -0500 Subject: [nafex] Pawpaw seedlings - true to parent? In-Reply-To: References: <863330486.288453.1606003966472@mail.yahoo.com> <460BB662-BB8F-4607-8BA9-15F5C87C5EAE@ginda.us> <3d1c6b80-d9c3-fade-fce1-b8bf44f80060@mebtel.net> Message-ID: Hi Lucky, Is that your personal experience? Or can anyone else on list vouch for this? I have not had pawpaw seedlings fruit yet, but I have seen diametrically opposed opinions on this around the 'net. Elizabeth On 11/23/2020 8:37 AM, Louis Pittman wrote: > Pawpaw fruits from named-parentage seedlings are > quite similar in most respects to those of the parent variety. -- Elizabeth Hilborn, DVM Bee Well Mobile Veterinary Services, PLLC beewellvet.com From lpittman at murraystate.edu Mon Nov 23 17:02:45 2020 From: lpittman at murraystate.edu (Louis Pittman) Date: Mon, 23 Nov 2020 16:02:45 -0600 Subject: [nafex] Pawpaw seedlings - true to parent? In-Reply-To: References: <863330486.288453.1606003966472@mail.yahoo.com> <460BB662-BB8F-4607-8BA9-15F5C87C5EAE@ginda.us> <3d1c6b80-d9c3-fade-fce1-b8bf44f80060@mebtel.net> Message-ID: Other than these handful of seedlings grown from seed I bought from Tollgate Nursery (Corwin Davis' daughter and son-in-law) , years ago, I've not really kept any to fruiting... have given away many seedlings and numerous quarts of seed from grafted trees - but at this juncture, I can't tell you what the parent variety is for any of these seedlings, nor which still have many or any of their multiple grafts still in existence. Other than one graft of Mango on a wild pawpaw growing in the fenceline well away from the house, I can't identify any of my pawpaw grafts anymore. So... not my own personal experience, but some of the earliest literature I encountered from the resurgence of interest and research into pawpaws, back at least into the early 1990s - by folks like Desmond Layne, Corwin Davis, etc., suggested that a high percentage of seedlings produced fruit similar to, if not comparable to, that of the parent variety. John Gordon offered, in addition to named variety graftlings and scionwood, several named-parentage seedling pawpaw selections, which he usually denoted as SAA (Saved As 'A')... like SAA Zimmerman, etc., which was a seedling of Zimmerman that produced fruit all but indistinguishable from the parent tree. Lucky On Mon, Nov 23, 2020 at 2:31 PM Elizabeth Hilborn wrote: > Hi Lucky, > > Is that your personal experience? Or can anyone else on list vouch for > this? > > I have not had pawpaw seedlings fruit yet, but I have seen diametrically > opposed opinions on this around the 'net. > > Elizabeth > > On 11/23/2020 8:37 AM, Louis Pittman wrote: > > Pawpaw fruits from named-parentage seedlings are > > quite similar in most respects to those of the parent variety. > > > -- > Elizabeth Hilborn, DVM > Bee Well Mobile Veterinary Services, PLLC > beewellvet.com > > __________________ > nafex mailing list > nafex at lists.ibiblio.org > Northamerican Allied Fruit Experimenters > subscribe/unsubscribe|user config|list info: > https://lists.ibiblio.org/mailman/listinfo/nafex > From pogohome at gmail.com Mon Nov 23 17:05:19 2020 From: pogohome at gmail.com (DB) Date: Mon, 23 Nov 2020 16:05:19 -0600 Subject: [nafex] Pawpaw seedlings - true to parent? In-Reply-To: References: <863330486.288453.1606003966472@mail.yahoo.com> <460BB662-BB8F-4607-8BA9-15F5C87C5EAE@ginda.us> <3d1c6b80-d9c3-fade-fce1-b8bf44f80060@mebtel.net> Message-ID: Pawpaws also spread through root suckers but are genetically identical. But in order to get fruit you will need two trees with distinct and different genes. Two seeds are genetically different enough to fertilize. Here is some FAQ found at the Kentucky State Pawpaw website. https://www.kysu.edu/academics/college-acs/school-of-ace/pawpaw/pawpaw-faq-and-contact-information.php/#q03 On Mon, Nov 23, 2020 at 2:31 PM Elizabeth Hilborn wrote: > Hi Lucky, > > Is that your personal experience? Or can anyone else on list vouch for > this? > > I have not had pawpaw seedlings fruit yet, but I have seen diametrically > opposed opinions on this around the 'net. > > Elizabeth > > On 11/23/2020 8:37 AM, Louis Pittman wrote: > > Pawpaw fruits from named-parentage seedlings are > > quite similar in most respects to those of the parent variety. > > > -- > Elizabeth Hilborn, DVM > Bee Well Mobile Veterinary Services, PLLC > beewellvet.com > > __________________ > nafex mailing list > nafex at lists.ibiblio.org > Northamerican Allied Fruit Experimenters > subscribe/unsubscribe|user config|list info: > https://lists.ibiblio.org/mailman/listinfo/nafex > From ehilborn at mebtel.net Mon Nov 23 17:49:55 2020 From: ehilborn at mebtel.net (Elizabeth Hilborn) Date: Mon, 23 Nov 2020 17:49:55 -0500 Subject: [nafex] Pawpaw seedlings - true to parent? In-Reply-To: References: <863330486.288453.1606003966472@mail.yahoo.com> <460BB662-BB8F-4607-8BA9-15F5C87C5EAE@ginda.us> <3d1c6b80-d9c3-fade-fce1-b8bf44f80060@mebtel.net> Message-ID: <0bf20623-dfa2-a82f-bbe6-954c4eb49d55@mebtel.net> Thanks Lucky, ?I look forward to my seedlings fruiting. The 'wild' card at my place is the big clonal stand in the creek bottom 1/4 mile from my cultivated patch. I have seen the wild pawpaws flower, but they are in the forest, so never set fruit? (that I have seen). I wonder if they are close enough to pollinate my cultivated patch. If so, they would dilute the 'good' selected variety genetics and progeny. Elizabeth On 11/23/2020 5:02 PM, Louis Pittman wrote: > Other than these handful of seedlings grown from seed I bought from > Tollgate Nursery (Corwin Davis' daughter and son-in-law) , years ago, I've > not really kept any to fruiting... have given away many seedlings and > numerous quarts of seed from grafted trees - but at this juncture, I can't > tell you what the parent variety is for any of these seedlings, nor which > still have many or any of their multiple grafts still in existence. Other > than one graft of Mango on a wild pawpaw growing in the fenceline well away > from the house, I can't identify any of my pawpaw grafts anymore. > > So... not my own personal experience, but some of the earliest literature I > encountered from the resurgence of interest and research into pawpaws, back > at least into the early 1990s - by folks like Desmond Layne, Corwin Davis, > etc., suggested that a high percentage of seedlings produced fruit similar > to, if not comparable to, that of the parent variety. John Gordon offered, > in addition to named variety graftlings and scionwood, several > named-parentage seedling pawpaw selections, which he usually denoted as SAA > (Saved As 'A')... like SAA Zimmerman, etc., which was a seedling of > Zimmerman that produced fruit all but indistinguishable from the parent > tree. > > Lucky > > On Mon, Nov 23, 2020 at 2:31 PM Elizabeth Hilborn > wrote: > >> Hi Lucky, >> >> Is that your personal experience? Or can anyone else on list vouch for >> this? >> >> I have not had pawpaw seedlings fruit yet, but I have seen diametrically >> opposed opinions on this around the 'net. >> >> Elizabeth >> >> On 11/23/2020 8:37 AM, Louis Pittman wrote: >>> Pawpaw fruits from named-parentage seedlings are >>> quite similar in most respects to those of the parent variety. >> -- Elizabeth Hilborn, DVM Bee Well Mobile Veterinary Services, PLLC beewellvet.com From leeareich at gmail.com Mon Nov 23 19:58:26 2020 From: leeareich at gmail.com (Lee Reich) Date: Mon, 23 Nov 2020 19:58:26 -0500 Subject: [nafex] Pawpaw seedlings - true to parent? In-Reply-To: References: <863330486.288453.1606003966472@mail.yahoo.com> <460BB662-BB8F-4607-8BA9-15F5C87C5EAE@ginda.us> <3d1c6b80-d9c3-fade-fce1-b8bf44f80060@mebtel.net> Message-ID: I also have grown some of John Gordon?s SSA seedlings. They were pretty good but, alas, I?ve tired of the taste of pawpaws and rarely eat one. I know of a number of people with similar experience. I have not yet tasted any of Neal Peterson?s selections, which everyone raves about. I have some grafts; they flower but never fruit because of pawpaw peduncle borers. Do they really TASTE substantially better or different from some of the othe named selections? Lee Lee Reich, PhD Come visit my farmden at http://www.leereich.com/blog http://leereich.com Books by Lee Reich: ?The Ever Curious Gardener: Using a Little Natural Science for a Much Better Garden ?A Northeast Gardener?s Year ?The Pruning Book ?Weedless Gardening ?Uncommon Fruits for every Garden ?Landscaping with Fruit ?Grow Fruit Naturally > On Nov 23, 2020, at 3:31 PM, Elizabeth Hilborn wrote: > > Hi Lucky, > > Is that your personal experience? Or can anyone else on list vouch for this? > > I have not had pawpaw seedlings fruit yet, but I have seen diametrically opposed opinions on this around the 'net. > > Elizabeth > > On 11/23/2020 8:37 AM, Louis Pittman wrote: >> Pawpaw fruits from named-parentage seedlings are >> quite similar in most respects to those of the parent variety. > > > -- > Elizabeth Hilborn, DVM > Bee Well Mobile Veterinary Services, PLLC > beewellvet.com > > __________________ > nafex mailing list > nafex at lists.ibiblio.org > Northamerican Allied Fruit Experimenters > subscribe/unsubscribe|user config|list info: > https://lists.ibiblio.org/mailman/listinfo/nafex From treehugger53ah at yahoo.com Mon Nov 23 23:22:56 2020 From: treehugger53ah at yahoo.com (Henry) Date: Tue, 24 Nov 2020 04:22:56 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [nafex] The heartbreak of grafted pawpaws In-Reply-To: References: <863330486.288453.1606003966472@mail.yahoo.com> <460BB662-BB8F-4607-8BA9-15F5C87C5EAE@ginda.us> <3d1c6b80-d9c3-fade-fce1-b8bf44f80060@mebtel.net> Message-ID: <183707625.966032.1606191776377@mail.yahoo.com> Is anyone selling seeds of named selections that would do well at the northern end of the range? --Henry Fieldseth Minneapolis. Minnesota, Zone 4 From alandhaigh at gmail.com Tue Nov 24 05:41:48 2020 From: alandhaigh at gmail.com (Alan Haigh) Date: Tue, 24 Nov 2020 05:41:48 -0500 Subject: [nafex] paw paw taste Message-ID: I believe that some people can taste the slight toxic tang of paw paws and some can't. Those that can't think they are absolutely delicious and those that can are never big fans. Unfortunately, like Lee, I fall in the latter group. I've never tasted a Peterson variety, though. From alandhaigh at gmail.com Tue Nov 24 05:45:52 2020 From: alandhaigh at gmail.com (Alan Haigh) Date: Tue, 24 Nov 2020 05:45:52 -0500 Subject: [nafex] paw paw seedlings Message-ID: Michael, the owner of Edible Landscaping claimed his seedlings were of similar quality as grafted ones. I tried one tree to find out and 8 years later discovered it had fruit that was mostly seed just like other seedlings I'd grown in the past. Maybe I was just unlucky, but they really aren't that hard to graft. From ehilborn at mebtel.net Tue Nov 24 05:47:46 2020 From: ehilborn at mebtel.net (Elizabeth Hilborn) Date: Tue, 24 Nov 2020 05:47:46 -0500 Subject: [nafex] paw paw taste In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: I have only tasted two named varieties Mango and Shenandoah.? They were both delicious, sweet, fruity, bright without the taste/smell of overripe banana (tang) that the wild fruits contain. There was a 6 year gap between tasting them so I cannot compare their tastes directly. I do remember the mango surprised me with its deliciousness. In my experience, the selected varieties are worth the effort. That is why I keep trying to buy grafted trees and to graft my sprouts. Elizabeth On 11/24/2020 5:41 AM, Alan Haigh wrote: > I believe that some people can taste the slight toxic tang of paw paws and > some can't. Those that can't think they are absolutely delicious and those > that can are never big fans. Unfortunately, like Lee, I fall in the latter > group. > > I've never tasted a Peterson variety, though. > __________________ From loneroc1 at gmail.com Tue Nov 24 06:48:30 2020 From: loneroc1 at gmail.com (Steve Herje) Date: Tue, 24 Nov 2020 05:48:30 -0600 Subject: [nafex] fruit for part shade In-Reply-To: <9C2AE9E3-3436-4D61-8D35-BF9A110AAA51@earthlink.net> References: <863330486.288453.1606003966472@mail.yahoo.com> <460BB662-BB8F-4607-8BA9-15F5C87C5EAE@ginda.us> <07772D6B-6D2A-489E-BF3F-4724A6FF8A21@ginda.us> <9C2AE9E3-3436-4D61-8D35-BF9A110AAA51@earthlink.net> Message-ID: Howdy Henry et al, great to see traffic on the list again. 'Centennial', a crab out of the University of Minnesota fruit breeding program, might work for you. It's delicious and completely pest and disease free for me without spray (the only apple out of the twenty-odd apple tees I grow with that distinction). Okay, it does get some curculio, but that just helps with thinning ?. My tree is on M-7 and it's still more vigorous than I'd like it to be. My tree is also shaded for part of the day by a standard size Macintosh and fruits fine On Mon, Nov 23, 2020, 6:51 AM mark wessel wrote: > Haskaps and Ribes do well in part shade in sw Ohio. > > Mark > > > On Nov 22, 2020, at 8:14 PM, Peter Chrisbacher > wrote: > > > > An invasive that I love and that seems to thrive in full shade to part > sun > > is wineberry. If it's not already invasively established in your area I > > wouldn't recommend planting it; if it's already around, consider it. > > > > -Pete > > > > On Sun, Nov 22, 2020, 1:54 PM Ginda Fisher wrote: > > > >> Has anyone selected for tasty kousa dogwood? I have sampled several, and > >> they range from pretty tasty to having nasty flavors. I wouldn't plant > one > >> for fruit without knowing something about the flavor of that cultivar. > >> -- > >> Ginda > >> typed with Swype, who knows what I intended. > >> > >> > >> On November 22, 2020 1:41:55 PM EST, Mary Yett > wrote: > >>> Try pawpaw, persimmon, taller elderberry varieties (some are tree > >>> sized), > >>> kousa dogwood, high bush cranberry, and of course the estimable cornus > >>> mas. > >>> > >>> Mary Yett > >>> Tree of Life Permaculture Farm > >>> Ontario,Canada > >>> Canadian zone 4B (USDA Zone 3 ) > >>> > >>> On Sat., Nov. 21, 2020, 8:58 p.m. John Holzwart, < > >>> plantbasedservices at gmail.com> wrote: > >>> > >>>> Henry, > >>>> > >>>> I think you know what I'm going to suggest. Lol. I second Cornus mas. > >>>> > >>>> Little John > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> On Sat, Nov 21, 2020, 7:23 PM Ginda Fisher wrote: > >>>> > >>>>> Cornus mas. It's a fruiting dogwood. I have some. It does okay with > >>> light > >>>>> shade. > >>>>> > >>>>> I'm in zone 6, i don't know how cold hardy it is. > >>>>> -- > >>>>> Ginda > >>>>> typed with Swype, who knows what I intended. > >>>>> > >>>>> > >>>>> On November 21, 2020 7:12:46 PM EST, Henry via nafex < > >>>>> nafex at lists.ibiblio.org> wrote: > >>>>>> Any recommendations for part shade? > >>>>>> > >>>>>> We have been removing buckthorn, but we don't want to remove the > >>>>>> canopy. > >>>>>> > >>>>>> We have elm, cherry and oak, but it opens up a lot when the > >>> buckthorn > >>>>>> is gone. > >>>>>> > >>>>>> Dogwood is the primary native understory. Would like to add some > >>> useful > >>>>>> fruit. > >>>>>> > >>>>>> --Henry Fieldseth > >>>>>> Minneapolis, Minnesota, zone 4 > >>>>>> > >>>>>> > >>>>>> > >>>>>> > >>>>>> > >>>>>> > >>>>>> > >>>>>> __________________ > >>>>>> nafex mailing list > >>>>>> nafex at lists.ibiblio.org > >>>>>> Northamerican Allied Fruit Experimenters > >>>>>> subscribe/unsubscribe|user config|list info: > >>>>>> https://lists.ibiblio.org/mailman/listinfo/nafex > >>>>> __________________ > >>>>> nafex mailing list > >>>>> nafex at lists.ibiblio.org > >>>>> Northamerican Allied Fruit Experimenters > >>>>> subscribe/unsubscribe|user config|list info: > >>>>> https://lists.ibiblio.org/mailman/listinfo/nafex > >>>>> > >>>> __________________ > >>>> nafex mailing list > >>>> nafex at lists.ibiblio.org > >>>> Northamerican Allied Fruit Experimenters > >>>> subscribe/unsubscribe|user config|list info: > >>>> https://lists.ibiblio.org/mailman/listinfo/nafex > >>>> > >>> __________________ > >>> nafex mailing list > >>> nafex at lists.ibiblio.org > >>> Northamerican Allied Fruit Experimenters > >>> subscribe/unsubscribe|user config|list info: > >>> https://lists.ibiblio.org/mailman/listinfo/nafex > >> __________________ > >> nafex mailing list > >> nafex at lists.ibiblio.org > >> Northamerican Allied Fruit Experimenters > >> subscribe/unsubscribe|user config|list info: > >> https://lists.ibiblio.org/mailman/listinfo/nafex > >> > > __________________ > > nafex mailing list > > nafex at lists.ibiblio.org > > Northamerican Allied Fruit Experimenters > > subscribe/unsubscribe|user config|list info: > > https://lists.ibiblio.org/mailman/listinfo/nafex > > __________________ > nafex mailing list > nafex at lists.ibiblio.org > Northamerican Allied Fruit Experimenters > subscribe/unsubscribe|user config|list info: > https://lists.ibiblio.org/mailman/listinfo/nafex > From pogohome at gmail.com Tue Nov 24 06:53:18 2020 From: pogohome at gmail.com (DB) Date: Tue, 24 Nov 2020 05:53:18 -0600 Subject: [nafex] The heartbreak of grafted pawpaws In-Reply-To: <183707625.966032.1606191776377@mail.yahoo.com> References: <863330486.288453.1606003966472@mail.yahoo.com> <460BB662-BB8F-4607-8BA9-15F5C87C5EAE@ginda.us> <3d1c6b80-d9c3-fade-fce1-b8bf44f80060@mebtel.net> <183707625.966032.1606191776377@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: there are two pawpaw facebook sites that can answer this question. pawpaw fanatics and pawpaw fanclub. there are now many in europe, australia and asia growing pawpaw. On Mon, Nov 23, 2020 at 10:23 PM Henry via nafex wrote: > Is anyone selling seeds of named selections that would do well at the > northern end of the range? > > --Henry Fieldseth > Minneapolis. Minnesota, Zone 4 > __________________ > nafex mailing list > nafex at lists.ibiblio.org > Northamerican Allied Fruit Experimenters > subscribe/unsubscribe|user config|list info: > https://lists.ibiblio.org/mailman/listinfo/nafex > From leeareich at gmail.com Tue Nov 24 08:25:33 2020 From: leeareich at gmail.com (Lee Reich) Date: Tue, 24 Nov 2020 08:25:33 -0500 Subject: [nafex] paw paw taste In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <984F0CDB-7240-4540-B583-ECE1BD4A7B46@gmail.com> I think it takes a certain amount of eating pawpaws to lose your taste for them. I?ve noticed this in other once-pawpaw-enthusiasts also. Lee Lee Reich, PhD Come visit my farmden at http://www.leereich.com/blog http://leereich.com Books by Lee Reich: ?The Ever Curious Gardener: Using a Little Natural Science for a Much Better Garden ?A Northeast Gardener?s Year ?The Pruning Book ?Weedless Gardening ?Uncommon Fruits for every Garden ?Landscaping with Fruit ?Grow Fruit Naturally > On Nov 24, 2020, at 5:47 AM, Elizabeth Hilborn wrote: > > I have only tasted two named varieties Mango and Shenandoah. They were both delicious, sweet, fruity, bright without the taste/smell of overripe banana (tang) that the wild fruits contain. > > There was a 6 year gap between tasting them so I cannot compare their tastes directly. I do remember the mango surprised me with its deliciousness. > > In my experience, the selected varieties are worth the effort. That is why I keep trying to buy grafted trees and to graft my sprouts. > > Elizabeth > > On 11/24/2020 5:41 AM, Alan Haigh wrote: >> I believe that some people can taste the slight toxic tang of paw paws and >> some can't. Those that can't think they are absolutely delicious and those >> that can are never big fans. Unfortunately, like Lee, I fall in the latter >> group. >> >> I've never tasted a Peterson variety, though. >> __________________ > > __________________ > nafex mailing list > nafex at lists.ibiblio.org > Northamerican Allied Fruit Experimenters > subscribe/unsubscribe|user config|list info: > https://lists.ibiblio.org/mailman/listinfo/nafex From growyourown at earthlink.net Tue Nov 24 08:39:36 2020 From: growyourown at earthlink.net (mark wessel) Date: Tue, 24 Nov 2020 08:39:36 -0500 Subject: [nafex] paw paw taste In-Reply-To: <984F0CDB-7240-4540-B583-ECE1BD4A7B46@gmail.com> References: <984F0CDB-7240-4540-B583-ECE1BD4A7B46@gmail.com> Message-ID: I love paw paw and eat them every day when I am at work. We have many named varieties including most of the Peterson material. My favorites are Shenandoah, Potomac and a few selections from Jerry Lehman. Only numbers for Jerry's. A few things things separate my favorites from wild populations and some other named varieties. All of my favorites have sweet, pure and intense flavor with no off flavors. No earthy or green notes come through. Texture is better and seed to pulp ratio is very good. Some varieties and wild trees are packed with seeds. We have a long season of ripening starting in mid to late august and extending into October some years. I thoroughly enjoy eating them with no worries or feelings of guilt until someone brings up the study about paw paws causing parkinson?s disease. What a buzz kill. > On Nov 24, 2020, at 8:25 AM, Lee Reich wrote: > > I think it takes a certain amount of eating pawpaws to lose your taste for them. I?ve noticed this in other once-pawpaw-enthusiasts also. > > Lee > Lee Reich, PhD > Come visit my farmden at > http://www.leereich.com/blog > http://leereich.com > > Books by Lee Reich: > ?The Ever Curious Gardener: Using a Little Natural Science for a Much Better Garden > ?A Northeast Gardener?s Year > ?The Pruning Book > ?Weedless Gardening > ?Uncommon Fruits for every Garden > ?Landscaping with Fruit > ?Grow Fruit Naturally > >> On Nov 24, 2020, at 5:47 AM, Elizabeth Hilborn wrote: >> >> I have only tasted two named varieties Mango and Shenandoah. They were both delicious, sweet, fruity, bright without the taste/smell of overripe banana (tang) that the wild fruits contain. >> >> There was a 6 year gap between tasting them so I cannot compare their tastes directly. I do remember the mango surprised me with its deliciousness. >> >> In my experience, the selected varieties are worth the effort. That is why I keep trying to buy grafted trees and to graft my sprouts. >> >> Elizabeth >> >> On 11/24/2020 5:41 AM, Alan Haigh wrote: >>> I believe that some people can taste the slight toxic tang of paw paws and >>> some can't. Those that can't think they are absolutely delicious and those >>> that can are never big fans. Unfortunately, like Lee, I fall in the latter >>> group. >>> >>> I've never tasted a Peterson variety, though. >>> __________________ >> >> __________________ >> nafex mailing list >> nafex at lists.ibiblio.org >> Northamerican Allied Fruit Experimenters >> subscribe/unsubscribe|user config|list info: >> https://lists.ibiblio.org/mailman/listinfo/nafex > > __________________ > nafex mailing list > nafex at lists.ibiblio.org > Northamerican Allied Fruit Experimenters > subscribe/unsubscribe|user config|list info: > https://lists.ibiblio.org/mailman/listinfo/nafex From lpittman at murraystate.edu Tue Nov 24 08:41:16 2020 From: lpittman at murraystate.edu (Louis Pittman) Date: Tue, 24 Nov 2020 07:41:16 -0600 Subject: [nafex] The heartbreak of grafted pawpaws In-Reply-To: <183707625.966032.1606191776377@mail.yahoo.com> References: <863330486.288453.1606003966472@mail.yahoo.com> <460BB662-BB8F-4607-8BA9-15F5C87C5EAE@ginda.us> <3d1c6b80-d9c3-fade-fce1-b8bf44f80060@mebtel.net> <183707625.966032.1606191776377@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: Kentucky State University is the pawpaw clonal germplasm repository and primary research institution for pawpaw. They have, in the past, offered free packets of 20 or so seeds from their orchard of grafted and selected seedling selections. Sherry Crabtree would be my first contact there. LLP I would bet hardiness would not be a significant issue. I sent scions of a south Alabama-origin A.parviflora to my friend, the late Gordon Nofs, in Flint, MI, and his graft of it survived for many years - longer there than did mine here in southern KY. Easter Big Freeze Disaster of 2007 killed many things here back to the ground, if not outright stone-cold dead. Seed may or may not be available this year, though...spring freezes hit hard here during bloom period...total of two pawpaw fruits on my farm this year; no pecans or hickories, no apples or pears, few persimmons. Only blueberries and black walnuts in 2020. Lucky Pittman Hopkinsville KY On Mon, Nov 23, 2020, 10:23 PM Henry via nafex wrote: > Is anyone selling seeds of named selections that would do well at the > northern end of the range? > > --Henry Fieldseth > Minneapolis. Minnesota, Zone 4 > __________________ > nafex mailing list > nafex at lists.ibiblio.org > Northamerican Allied Fruit Experimenters > subscribe/unsubscribe|user config|list info: > https://lists.ibiblio.org/mailman/listinfo/nafex > From loneroc1 at gmail.com Tue Nov 24 08:41:12 2020 From: loneroc1 at gmail.com (Steve Herje) Date: Tue, 24 Nov 2020 07:41:12 -0600 Subject: [nafex] paw paw taste In-Reply-To: <984F0CDB-7240-4540-B583-ECE1BD4A7B46@gmail.com> References: <984F0CDB-7240-4540-B583-ECE1BD4A7B46@gmail.com> Message-ID: Howdy, I occasionally get a harvest on my seedling pawpaws here in zone 3. I figured that they'd taste best when allowed to turn black of the tree. Wrong-o. I made a pawpaw pudding and the taste was very strong. We ended up throwing out most of the pudding, but not until after we all got a case of bad diarrhoea. Seems that pawpaws should be eaten when just softening. That might help with the long-term likeability of the fruit. Steve H. SW WI USA, USDA zone 3 On Tue, Nov 24, 2020, 7:26 AM Lee Reich wrote: > I think it takes a certain amount of eating pawpaws to lose your taste for > them. I?ve noticed this in other once-pawpaw-enthusiasts also. > > Lee > Lee Reich, PhD > Come visit my farmden at > http://www.leereich.com/blog > http://leereich.com > > Books by Lee Reich: > ?The Ever Curious Gardener: Using a Little Natural Science for a Much > Better Garden > ?A Northeast Gardener?s Year > ?The Pruning Book > ?Weedless Gardening > ?Uncommon Fruits for every Garden > ?Landscaping with Fruit > ?Grow Fruit Naturally > > > On Nov 24, 2020, at 5:47 AM, Elizabeth Hilborn > wrote: > > > > I have only tasted two named varieties Mango and Shenandoah. They were > both delicious, sweet, fruity, bright without the taste/smell of overripe > banana (tang) that the wild fruits contain. > > > > There was a 6 year gap between tasting them so I cannot compare their > tastes directly. I do remember the mango surprised me with its > deliciousness. > > > > In my experience, the selected varieties are worth the effort. That is > why I keep trying to buy grafted trees and to graft my sprouts. > > > > Elizabeth > > > > On 11/24/2020 5:41 AM, Alan Haigh wrote: > >> I believe that some people can taste the slight toxic tang of paw paws > and > >> some can't. Those that can't think they are absolutely delicious and > those > >> that can are never big fans. Unfortunately, like Lee, I fall in the > latter > >> group. > >> > >> I've never tasted a Peterson variety, though. > >> __________________ > > > > __________________ > > nafex mailing list > > nafex at lists.ibiblio.org > > Northamerican Allied Fruit Experimenters > > subscribe/unsubscribe|user config|list info: > > https://lists.ibiblio.org/mailman/listinfo/nafex > > __________________ > nafex mailing list > nafex at lists.ibiblio.org > Northamerican Allied Fruit Experimenters > subscribe/unsubscribe|user config|list info: > https://lists.ibiblio.org/mailman/listinfo/nafex > From ehilborn at mebtel.net Tue Nov 24 08:45:48 2020 From: ehilborn at mebtel.net (Elizabeth Hilborn) Date: Tue, 24 Nov 2020 08:45:48 -0500 Subject: [nafex] paw paw taste -pawpaw-associated illness In-Reply-To: <984F0CDB-7240-4540-B583-ECE1BD4A7B46@gmail.com> References: <984F0CDB-7240-4540-B583-ECE1BD4A7B46@gmail.com> Message-ID: I dry much of my fruit as I can't eat it all fresh nor do I have the freezer space. A memorable experiment was dried pawpaw. Slices of beautiful, ripe fruit set in my dehydrator. Dried to perfection. Imagine my delight when I first tasted the dried fruit. Sweet, fruity, leathery, but easy to chew. I ate a single piece then went out to do evening farm chores. Within an hour I started feeling bad. Abdominal pain then a building nausea. I was not able to eat dinner that evening. Felt well in the morning. The next evening as I unloaded the dehydrator I ate another piece of dried pawpaw. Again within an hour, the same deal- pain, nausea. I had to go lay down for the night. Again, no dinner. Maybe some people do not feel well after eating the fresh fruit and stop enjoying it over time. I have NO idea why dried pawpaw does this to me while I can still eat (and enjoy) fresh pawpaw. Any ideas? Elizabeth On 11/24/2020 8:25 AM, Lee Reich wrote: > I think it takes a certain amount of eating pawpaws to lose your taste for them. I?ve noticed this in other once-pawpaw-enthusiasts also. > > Lee > Lee Reich, PhD > Come visit my farmden at > http://www.leereich.com/blog > http://leereich.com > > Books by Lee Reich: > ?The Ever Curious Gardener: Using a Little Natural Science for a Much Better Garden > ?A Northeast Gardener?s Year > ?The Pruning Book > ?Weedless Gardening > ?Uncommon Fruits for every Garden > ?Landscaping with Fruit > ?Grow Fruit Naturally > >> On Nov 24, 2020, at 5:47 AM, Elizabeth Hilborn wrote: >> >> I have only tasted two named varieties Mango and Shenandoah. They were both delicious, sweet, fruity, bright without the taste/smell of overripe banana (tang) that the wild fruits contain. >> >> There was a 6 year gap between tasting them so I cannot compare their tastes directly. I do remember the mango surprised me with its deliciousness. >> >> In my experience, the selected varieties are worth the effort. That is why I keep trying to buy grafted trees and to graft my sprouts. >> >> Elizabeth >> >> On 11/24/2020 5:41 AM, Alan Haigh wrote: >>> I believe that some people can taste the slight toxic tang of paw paws and >>> some can't. Those that can't think they are absolutely delicious and those >>> that can are never big fans. Unfortunately, like Lee, I fall in the latter >>> group. >>> >>> I've never tasted a Peterson variety, though. >>> __________________ >> ps://lists.ibiblio.org/mailman/listinfo/nafex -- Elizabeth Hilborn, DVM Bee Well Mobile Veterinary Services, PLLC beewellvet.com From lpittman at murraystate.edu Tue Nov 24 08:46:09 2020 From: lpittman at murraystate.edu (Louis Pittman) Date: Tue, 24 Nov 2020 07:46:09 -0600 Subject: [nafex] paw paw taste In-Reply-To: <984F0CDB-7240-4540-B583-ECE1BD4A7B46@gmail.com> References: <984F0CDB-7240-4540-B583-ECE1BD4A7B46@gmail.com> Message-ID: Yep. I can eat one, and that's enough to do me for a year or more. Grafted varieties definitely taste better than local natives, but one is still enough for me. I have pulp frozen back from 3 years or more, but rarely do anything with it...guess I need to whip up a batch of 'pawpaw honey' to pass out as holiday treats to friends & neighbors. Lucky On Tue, Nov 24, 2020, 7:25 AM Lee Reich wrote: > I think it takes a certain amount of eating pawpaws to lose your taste for > them. I?ve noticed this in other once-pawpaw-enthusiasts also. > > Lee > Lee Reich, PhD > Come visit my farmden at > http://www.leereich.com/blog > http://leereich.com > > Books by Lee Reich: > ?The Ever Curious Gardener: Using a Little Natural Science for a Much > Better Garden > ?A Northeast Gardener?s Year > ?The Pruning Book > ?Weedless Gardening > ?Uncommon Fruits for every Garden > ?Landscaping with Fruit > ?Grow Fruit Naturally > > > On Nov 24, 2020, at 5:47 AM, Elizabeth Hilborn > wrote: > > > > I have only tasted two named varieties Mango and Shenandoah. They were > both delicious, sweet, fruity, bright without the taste/smell of overripe > banana (tang) that the wild fruits contain. > > > > There was a 6 year gap between tasting them so I cannot compare their > tastes directly. I do remember the mango surprised me with its > deliciousness. > > > > In my experience, the selected varieties are worth the effort. That is > why I keep trying to buy grafted trees and to graft my sprouts. > > > > Elizabeth > > > > On 11/24/2020 5:41 AM, Alan Haigh wrote: > >> I believe that some people can taste the slight toxic tang of paw paws > and > >> some can't. Those that can't think they are absolutely delicious and > those > >> that can are never big fans. Unfortunately, like Lee, I fall in the > latter > >> group. > >> > >> I've never tasted a Peterson variety, though. > >> __________________ > > > > __________________ > > nafex mailing list > > nafex at lists.ibiblio.org > > Northamerican Allied Fruit Experimenters > > subscribe/unsubscribe|user config|list info: > > https://lists.ibiblio.org/mailman/listinfo/nafex > > __________________ > nafex mailing list > nafex at lists.ibiblio.org > Northamerican Allied Fruit Experimenters > subscribe/unsubscribe|user config|list info: > https://lists.ibiblio.org/mailman/listinfo/nafex > From lpittman at murraystate.edu Tue Nov 24 08:54:20 2020 From: lpittman at murraystate.edu (Louis Pittman) Date: Tue, 24 Nov 2020 07:54:20 -0600 Subject: [nafex] paw paw taste -pawpaw-associated illness In-Reply-To: References: <984F0CDB-7240-4540-B583-ECE1BD4A7B46@gmail.com> Message-ID: Not sure thatanyone has identified exactly what causes that gastronomic upheaval, but dried pawpaw/pawpaw fruit leather is a no-no! Heck, 15 years ago, I 'poisoned' a bunch of coworkers when I took a batch of pawpaw cookies to the office and shared them at the break table. The lab director spent 3 days at home, in close proximity to the toilet...thought he was gonna have to go into the hospital for IV fluids. I've not yet lived that down...former coworkers still rib me about those pawpaw cookies. On Tue, Nov 24, 2020, 7:45 AM Elizabeth Hilborn wrote: > I dry much of my fruit as I can't eat it all fresh nor do I have the > freezer space. > > A memorable experiment was dried pawpaw. > Slices of beautiful, ripe fruit set in my dehydrator. Dried to > perfection. Imagine my delight when I first tasted the dried fruit. > Sweet, fruity, leathery, but easy to chew. I ate a single piece then > went out to do evening farm chores. Within an hour I started feeling > bad. Abdominal pain then a building nausea. > > I was not able to eat dinner that evening. Felt well in the morning. > > The next evening as I unloaded the dehydrator I ate another piece of > dried pawpaw. Again within an hour, the same deal- pain, nausea. I had > to go lay down for the night. Again, no dinner. > > Maybe some people do not feel well after eating the fresh fruit and stop > enjoying it over time. > > I have NO idea why dried pawpaw does this to me while I can still eat > (and enjoy) fresh pawpaw. > > Any ideas? > > Elizabeth > > On 11/24/2020 8:25 AM, Lee Reich wrote: > > I think it takes a certain amount of eating pawpaws to lose your taste > for them. I?ve noticed this in other once-pawpaw-enthusiasts also. > > > > Lee > > Lee Reich, PhD > > Come visit my farmden at > > http://www.leereich.com/blog > > http://leereich.com > > > > Books by Lee Reich: > > ?The Ever Curious Gardener: Using a Little Natural Science for a Much > Better Garden > > ?A Northeast Gardener?s Year > > ?The Pruning Book > > ?Weedless Gardening > > ?Uncommon Fruits for every Garden > > ?Landscaping with Fruit > > ?Grow Fruit Naturally > > > >> On Nov 24, 2020, at 5:47 AM, Elizabeth Hilborn > wrote: > >> > >> I have only tasted two named varieties Mango and Shenandoah. They were > both delicious, sweet, fruity, bright without the taste/smell of overripe > banana (tang) that the wild fruits contain. > >> > >> There was a 6 year gap between tasting them so I cannot compare their > tastes directly. I do remember the mango surprised me with its > deliciousness. > >> > >> In my experience, the selected varieties are worth the effort. That is > why I keep trying to buy grafted trees and to graft my sprouts. > >> > >> Elizabeth > >> > >> On 11/24/2020 5:41 AM, Alan Haigh wrote: > >>> I believe that some people can taste the slight toxic tang of paw paws > and > >>> some can't. Those that can't think they are absolutely delicious and > those > >>> that can are never big fans. Unfortunately, like Lee, I fall in the > latter > >>> group. > >>> > >>> I've never tasted a Peterson variety, though. > >>> __________________ > >> ps://lists.ibiblio.org/mailman/listinfo/nafex > > > -- > Elizabeth Hilborn, DVM > Bee Well Mobile Veterinary Services, PLLC > beewellvet.com > > __________________ > nafex mailing list > nafex at lists.ibiblio.org > Northamerican Allied Fruit Experimenters > subscribe/unsubscribe|user config|list info: > https://lists.ibiblio.org/mailman/listinfo/nafex > From pogohome at gmail.com Tue Nov 24 09:34:46 2020 From: pogohome at gmail.com (DB) Date: Tue, 24 Nov 2020 08:34:46 -0600 Subject: [nafex] paw paw taste -pawpaw-associated illness In-Reply-To: References: <984F0CDB-7240-4540-B583-ECE1BD4A7B46@gmail.com> Message-ID: Kentucky State University has recipes for Pawpaw. I have not made it yet but hear ice cream is the dream. On Tue, Nov 24, 2020 at 7:55 AM Louis Pittman wrote: > Not sure thatanyone has identified exactly what causes that gastronomic > upheaval, but dried pawpaw/pawpaw fruit leather is a no-no! > > Heck, 15 years ago, I 'poisoned' a bunch of coworkers when I took a batch > of pawpaw cookies to the office and shared them at the break table. The lab > director spent 3 days at home, in close proximity to the toilet...thought > he was gonna have to go into the hospital for IV fluids. I've not yet > lived that down...former coworkers still rib me about those pawpaw cookies. > > On Tue, Nov 24, 2020, 7:45 AM Elizabeth Hilborn > wrote: > > > I dry much of my fruit as I can't eat it all fresh nor do I have the > > freezer space. > > > > A memorable experiment was dried pawpaw. > > Slices of beautiful, ripe fruit set in my dehydrator. Dried to > > perfection. Imagine my delight when I first tasted the dried fruit. > > Sweet, fruity, leathery, but easy to chew. I ate a single piece then > > went out to do evening farm chores. Within an hour I started feeling > > bad. Abdominal pain then a building nausea. > > > > I was not able to eat dinner that evening. Felt well in the morning. > > > > The next evening as I unloaded the dehydrator I ate another piece of > > dried pawpaw. Again within an hour, the same deal- pain, nausea. I had > > to go lay down for the night. Again, no dinner. > > > > Maybe some people do not feel well after eating the fresh fruit and stop > > enjoying it over time. > > > > I have NO idea why dried pawpaw does this to me while I can still eat > > (and enjoy) fresh pawpaw. > > > > Any ideas? > > > > Elizabeth > > > > On 11/24/2020 8:25 AM, Lee Reich wrote: > > > I think it takes a certain amount of eating pawpaws to lose your taste > > for them. I?ve noticed this in other once-pawpaw-enthusiasts also. > > > > > > Lee > > > Lee Reich, PhD > > > Come visit my farmden at > > > http://www.leereich.com/blog > > > http://leereich.com > > > > > > Books by Lee Reich: > > > ?The Ever Curious Gardener: Using a Little Natural Science for a Much > > Better Garden > > > ?A Northeast Gardener?s Year > > > ?The Pruning Book > > > ?Weedless Gardening > > > ?Uncommon Fruits for every Garden > > > ?Landscaping with Fruit > > > ?Grow Fruit Naturally > > > > > >> On Nov 24, 2020, at 5:47 AM, Elizabeth Hilborn > > wrote: > > >> > > >> I have only tasted two named varieties Mango and Shenandoah. They > were > > both delicious, sweet, fruity, bright without the taste/smell of overripe > > banana (tang) that the wild fruits contain. > > >> > > >> There was a 6 year gap between tasting them so I cannot compare their > > tastes directly. I do remember the mango surprised me with its > > deliciousness. > > >> > > >> In my experience, the selected varieties are worth the effort. That is > > why I keep trying to buy grafted trees and to graft my sprouts. > > >> > > >> Elizabeth > > >> > > >> On 11/24/2020 5:41 AM, Alan Haigh wrote: > > >>> I believe that some people can taste the slight toxic tang of paw > paws > > and > > >>> some can't. Those that can't think they are absolutely delicious and > > those > > >>> that can are never big fans. Unfortunately, like Lee, I fall in the > > latter > > >>> group. > > >>> > > >>> I've never tasted a Peterson variety, though. > > >>> __________________ > > >> ps://lists.ibiblio.org/mailman/listinfo/nafex > > > > > > -- > > Elizabeth Hilborn, DVM > > Bee Well Mobile Veterinary Services, PLLC > > beewellvet.com > > > > __________________ > > nafex mailing list > > nafex at lists.ibiblio.org > > Northamerican Allied Fruit Experimenters > > subscribe/unsubscribe|user config|list info: > > https://lists.ibiblio.org/mailman/listinfo/nafex > > > __________________ > nafex mailing list > nafex at lists.ibiblio.org > Northamerican Allied Fruit Experimenters > subscribe/unsubscribe|user config|list info: > https://lists.ibiblio.org/mailman/listinfo/nafex > From pogohome at gmail.com Tue Nov 24 09:41:00 2020 From: pogohome at gmail.com (DB) Date: Tue, 24 Nov 2020 08:41:00 -0600 Subject: [nafex] paw paw taste In-Reply-To: References: <984F0CDB-7240-4540-B583-ECE1BD4A7B46@gmail.com> Message-ID: There has been research done on the Parkinsons issue and can be found at Kentucky State. There has never been a case of Parkinsons being traced to Pawpaw. Seems that certain tropical countries have this problem and it is related to a relative of Pawpaw. I have attached the research. On Tue, Nov 24, 2020 at 7:40 AM mark wessel wrote: > I love paw paw and eat them every day when I am at work. We have many > named varieties including most of the Peterson material. My favorites are > Shenandoah, Potomac and a few selections from Jerry Lehman. Only numbers > for Jerry's. A few things things separate my favorites from wild > populations and some other named varieties. All of my favorites have sweet, > pure and intense flavor with no off flavors. No earthy or green notes come > through. Texture is better and seed to pulp ratio is very good. Some > varieties and wild trees are packed with seeds. > > We have a long season of ripening starting in mid to late august and > extending into October some years. I thoroughly enjoy eating them with no > worries or feelings of guilt until someone brings up the study about paw > paws causing parkinson?s disease. What a buzz kill. > > > > On Nov 24, 2020, at 8:25 AM, Lee Reich wrote: > > > > I think it takes a certain amount of eating pawpaws to lose your taste > for them. I?ve noticed this in other once-pawpaw-enthusiasts also. > > > > Lee > > Lee Reich, PhD > > Come visit my farmden at > > http://www.leereich.com/blog > > http://leereich.com > > > > Books by Lee Reich: > > ?The Ever Curious Gardener: Using a Little Natural Science for a Much > Better Garden > > ?A Northeast Gardener?s Year > > ?The Pruning Book > > ?Weedless Gardening > > ?Uncommon Fruits for every Garden > > ?Landscaping with Fruit > > ?Grow Fruit Naturally > > > >> On Nov 24, 2020, at 5:47 AM, Elizabeth Hilborn > wrote: > >> > >> I have only tasted two named varieties Mango and Shenandoah. They were > both delicious, sweet, fruity, bright without the taste/smell of overripe > banana (tang) that the wild fruits contain. > >> > >> There was a 6 year gap between tasting them so I cannot compare their > tastes directly. I do remember the mango surprised me with its > deliciousness. > >> > >> In my experience, the selected varieties are worth the effort. That is > why I keep trying to buy grafted trees and to graft my sprouts. > >> > >> Elizabeth > >> > >> On 11/24/2020 5:41 AM, Alan Haigh wrote: > >>> I believe that some people can taste the slight toxic tang of paw paws > and > >>> some can't. Those that can't think they are absolutely delicious and > those > >>> that can are never big fans. Unfortunately, like Lee, I fall in the > latter > >>> group. > >>> > >>> I've never tasted a Peterson variety, though. > >>> __________________ > >> > >> __________________ > >> nafex mailing list > >> nafex at lists.ibiblio.org > >> Northamerican Allied Fruit Experimenters > >> subscribe/unsubscribe|user config|list info: > >> https://lists.ibiblio.org/mailman/listinfo/nafex > > > > __________________ > > nafex mailing list > > nafex at lists.ibiblio.org > > Northamerican Allied Fruit Experimenters > > subscribe/unsubscribe|user config|list info: > > https://lists.ibiblio.org/mailman/listinfo/nafex > > __________________ > nafex mailing list > nafex at lists.ibiblio.org > Northamerican Allied Fruit Experimenters > subscribe/unsubscribe|user config|list info: > https://lists.ibiblio.org/mailman/listinfo/nafex > -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: jf9018239Pomper.pdf Type: application/pdf Size: 806784 bytes Desc: not available URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: AcetoUpdate-2016.pdf Type: application/pdf Size: 1995315 bytes Desc: not available URL: From pxbacher at gmail.com Tue Nov 24 12:50:48 2020 From: pxbacher at gmail.com (Peter Chrisbacher) Date: Tue, 24 Nov 2020 12:50:48 -0500 Subject: [nafex] Use for Callery/Bradford Pears In-Reply-To: References: <984F0CDB-7240-4540-B583-ECE1BD4A7B46@gmail.com> Message-ID: I have two callery pear trees in my front yard (not by choice) that are loaded with fruit. It's sweet but astringent, and does seem to have some flavor. I'm sure I could easily gather several pounds from just my two trees, let alone the trees of the neighbors. Anyone have any *good* uses for this unwelcome fruit? Looks like there are jelly recipes online - has anyone tried making this? Any other recommendations? Thanks -Pete From pogohome at gmail.com Tue Nov 24 12:56:09 2020 From: pogohome at gmail.com (DB) Date: Tue, 24 Nov 2020 11:56:09 -0600 Subject: [nafex] Use for Callery/Bradford Pears In-Reply-To: References: <984F0CDB-7240-4540-B583-ECE1BD4A7B46@gmail.com> Message-ID: graft european or asian pears onto them. On Tue, Nov 24, 2020 at 11:51 AM Peter Chrisbacher wrote: > I have two callery pear trees in my front yard (not by choice) that are > loaded with fruit. It's sweet but astringent, and does seem to have some > flavor. I'm sure I could easily gather several pounds from just my two > trees, let alone the trees of the neighbors. Anyone have any *good* uses > for this unwelcome fruit? Looks like there are jelly recipes online - has > anyone tried making this? Any other recommendations? > > Thanks > > -Pete > __________________ > nafex mailing list > nafex at lists.ibiblio.org > Northamerican Allied Fruit Experimenters > subscribe/unsubscribe|user config|list info: > https://lists.ibiblio.org/mailman/listinfo/nafex > From pxbacher at gmail.com Tue Nov 24 13:20:49 2020 From: pxbacher at gmail.com (Peter Chrisbacher) Date: Tue, 24 Nov 2020 13:20:49 -0500 Subject: [nafex] Use for Callery/Bradford Pears In-Reply-To: References: <984F0CDB-7240-4540-B583-ECE1BD4A7B46@gmail.com> Message-ID: They will die mysteriously one of these years, once I have a couple of decent size persimmon to replace them ;) (Fortunately, the township in which I live does allow them to be replaced with a different tree) Pete Chrisbacher On Tue, Nov 24, 2020 at 12:57 PM DB wrote: > graft european or asian pears onto them. > > > On Tue, Nov 24, 2020 at 11:51 AM Peter Chrisbacher > wrote: > > > I have two callery pear trees in my front yard (not by choice) that are > > loaded with fruit. It's sweet but astringent, and does seem to have some > > flavor. I'm sure I could easily gather several pounds from just my two > > trees, let alone the trees of the neighbors. Anyone have any *good* uses > > for this unwelcome fruit? Looks like there are jelly recipes online - > has > > anyone tried making this? Any other recommendations? > > > > Thanks > > > > -Pete > > __________________ > > nafex mailing list > > nafex at lists.ibiblio.org > > Northamerican Allied Fruit Experimenters > > subscribe/unsubscribe|user config|list info: > > https://lists.ibiblio.org/mailman/listinfo/nafex > > > __________________ > nafex mailing list > nafex at lists.ibiblio.org > Northamerican Allied Fruit Experimenters > subscribe/unsubscribe|user config|list info: > https://lists.ibiblio.org/mailman/listinfo/nafex > From orders at cuttsreviews.com Tue Nov 24 13:58:42 2020 From: orders at cuttsreviews.com (Jay Cutts) Date: Tue, 24 Nov 2020 11:58:42 -0700 Subject: [nafex] The heartbreak of grafted pawpaws In-Reply-To: <183707625.966032.1606191776377@mail.yahoo.com> References: <863330486.288453.1606003966472@mail.yahoo.com> <460BB662-BB8F-4607-8BA9-15F5C87C5EAE@ginda.us> <3d1c6b80-d9c3-fade-fce1-b8bf44f80060@mebtel.net> <183707625.966032.1606191776377@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <861b17e0-5fc4-582c-b992-c348706a6fc0@cuttsreviews.com> You can buy seedlings grown from selected varieties. Burnt Ridge Nursery sells seedling plants. I don't remember if they are from named varieties or just selected from better fruiting, unnamed varieties. Edible Landscaping also sells plants that I believe are from named varieties. Since first year seedlings can be so sensitive to light, it might be better to start with these already established plants. Regards, Jay Jay Cutts Director, Cutts Graduate Reviews Lead Author, Barron's MCAT Prep Book Lead Author, Barron's MCAT Flash Cards Lead Author, Barron's LSAT Prep Book (505) 281-0684 (landline, no texts) (505) 448-0888 (texts, no voicemail) 10 am to 10 pm Mt Time, 7 days On 11/23/2020 9:22 PM, Henry via nafex wrote: > Is anyone selling seeds of named selections that would do well at the northern end of the range? > > --Henry Fieldseth > Minneapolis. Minnesota, Zone 4 > __________________ > nafex mailing list > nafex at lists.ibiblio.org > Northamerican Allied Fruit Experimenters > subscribe/unsubscribe|user config|list info: > https://lists.ibiblio.org/mailman/listinfo/nafex From pogohome at gmail.com Tue Nov 24 14:15:58 2020 From: pogohome at gmail.com (DB) Date: Tue, 24 Nov 2020 13:15:58 -0600 Subject: [nafex] The heartbreak of grafted pawpaws In-Reply-To: <861b17e0-5fc4-582c-b992-c348706a6fc0@cuttsreviews.com> References: <863330486.288453.1606003966472@mail.yahoo.com> <460BB662-BB8F-4607-8BA9-15F5C87C5EAE@ginda.us> <3d1c6b80-d9c3-fade-fce1-b8bf44f80060@mebtel.net> <183707625.966032.1606191776377@mail.yahoo.com> <861b17e0-5fc4-582c-b992-c348706a6fc0@cuttsreviews.com> Message-ID: I would talk with Cliff England at England's Nursery. He sells a lot of seeds and should have some of which you seek. On Tue, Nov 24, 2020 at 12:59 PM Jay Cutts wrote: > You can buy seedlings grown from selected varieties. Burnt Ridge Nursery > sells seedling plants. I don't remember if they are from named varieties > or just selected from better fruiting, unnamed varieties. Edible > Landscaping also sells plants that I believe are from named varieties. > > Since first year seedlings can be so sensitive to light, it might be > better to start with these already established plants. > > Regards, > > Jay > > Jay Cutts > Director, Cutts Graduate Reviews > Lead Author, Barron's MCAT Prep Book > Lead Author, Barron's MCAT Flash Cards > Lead Author, Barron's LSAT Prep Book > (505) 281-0684 (landline, no texts) > (505) 448-0888 (texts, no voicemail) > 10 am to 10 pm Mt Time, 7 days > > On 11/23/2020 9:22 PM, Henry via nafex wrote: > > Is anyone selling seeds of named selections that would do well at the > northern end of the range? > > > > --Henry Fieldseth > > Minneapolis. Minnesota, Zone 4 > > __________________ > > nafex mailing list > > nafex at lists.ibiblio.org > > Northamerican Allied Fruit Experimenters > > subscribe/unsubscribe|user config|list info: > > https://lists.ibiblio.org/mailman/listinfo/nafex > > __________________ > nafex mailing list > nafex at lists.ibiblio.org > Northamerican Allied Fruit Experimenters > subscribe/unsubscribe|user config|list info: > https://lists.ibiblio.org/mailman/listinfo/nafex > From sam739is at hotmail.com Tue Nov 24 12:22:41 2020 From: sam739is at hotmail.com (Sam Brungardt) Date: Tue, 24 Nov 2020 17:22:41 +0000 Subject: [nafex] The heartbreak of grafted pawpaws In-Reply-To: References: <863330486.288453.1606003966472@mail.yahoo.com> <460BB662-BB8F-4607-8BA9-15F5C87C5EAE@ginda.us> <3d1c6b80-d9c3-fade-fce1-b8bf44f80060@mebtel.net> <183707625.966032.1606191776377@mail.yahoo.com>, Message-ID: Dan, as far as pawpaw varieties or selections that would do well in Minnesota, there are 2 reasons they will not do well if you were to grow them here. One is that the growing season is too short. And the other is that normally the accumulation of heat units during the growing season is not great enough to mature fruit if you did succeed in having a plant survive our winters until it was of bearing age. Sorry to be discouraging, but I believe that is what research at the Minnesota Landscape Arboretum found many years ago. -- Sam Brungardt, St. Paul, Minn. (USDA Hardiness Zone 4b) ________________________________ From: nafex on behalf of DB Sent: Tuesday, November 24, 2020 5:53 AM To: mailing list at ibiblio - Northamerican Allied Fruit Experimenters Subject: Re: [nafex] The heartbreak of grafted pawpaws there are two pawpaw facebook sites that can answer this question. pawpaw fanatics and pawpaw fanclub. there are now many in europe, australia and asia growing pawpaw. On Mon, Nov 23, 2020 at 10:23 PM Henry via nafex wrote: > Is anyone selling seeds of named selections that would do well at the > northern end of the range? > > --Henry Fieldseth > Minneapolis. Minnesota, Zone 4 > __________________ > nafex mailing list > nafex at lists.ibiblio.org > Northamerican Allied Fruit Experimenters > subscribe/unsubscribe|user config|list info: > https://nam11.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Flists.ibiblio.org%2Fmailman%2Flistinfo%2Fnafex&data=04%7C01%7C%7C66d0b92a0770444afadb08d8906f9300%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C637418156162060399%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C1000&sdata=1BnGjRWFcKc%2BW1JL5bisHq%2F0EQ4BI0RDehNbMcBDwmo%3D&reserved=0 > __________________ nafex mailing list nafex at lists.ibiblio.org Northamerican Allied Fruit Experimenters subscribe/unsubscribe|user config|list info: https://nam11.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Flists.ibiblio.org%2Fmailman%2Flistinfo%2Fnafex&data=04%7C01%7C%7C66d0b92a0770444afadb08d8906f9300%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C637418156162060399%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C1000&sdata=1BnGjRWFcKc%2BW1JL5bisHq%2F0EQ4BI0RDehNbMcBDwmo%3D&reserved=0 From rosholdt at erols.com Wed Nov 25 11:54:17 2020 From: rosholdt at erols.com (Rosholdt) Date: Wed, 25 Nov 2020 11:54:17 -0500 Subject: [nafex] Bay Laurel in 6B In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: I am in 6"c"/ 7a in central Virginia, and my Bay is an outdoor summer plant only.? It's pot comes in for the winter.? I also blanket my rosemary plants when the weather turns very cold with winds.? I lose my pastured figs, the potted ones are okay because they stay in an unheated garage for the winter weather. Barbara R Central Virginia Z6c/7a On 11/21/2020 7:12 PM, nafex-request at lists.ibiblio.org wrote: > > Re: [nafex] Bay Laurel in 6B.eml > > Subject: > Re: [nafex] Bay Laurel in 6B > From: > Elizabeth Hilborn > Date: > 11/21/2020, 6:15 PM > > To: > nafex at lists.ibiblio.org > > > > I grow Bay laurel in zone 7a in a large pot on the south side of my > house next to a concrete wall. I have kept it through 4 winters, but > it, like my Rosemary gets a blanket if the temperature drops below 25 > degrees F. > > On 11/21/2020 5:06 PM, Chris Garriss wrote: >> While I have had no problem 9 years out of 10 with rosemary in NC 7A, I >> lost every Bay Laurel I ever tried.? I had rosemary survive to the point >> the main trunk on several plants was about 3 inches in diameter.? >> Then we >> got one of our freak cold snaps which killed the Rosemarys, figs to the >> ground (they resprout fine). >> >> Good luck. > > -- > Elizabeth Hilborn, DVM > Bee Well Mobile Veterinary Services, PLLC > beewellvet.com From rosholdt at erols.com Wed Nov 25 12:14:50 2020 From: rosholdt at erols.com (Rosholdt) Date: Wed, 25 Nov 2020 12:14:50 -0500 Subject: [nafex] Glad to See Traffic - Lee Calhoun's trees In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <77e9984b-fcc8-3c80-52f6-c1067e7e41a0@erols.com> Lee's trees reside with his friend in NC at Century Orchard . Here's a plug: *Century Farm Orchardsred apple against blue sky **David C. Vernon* physical address: Reidsville, NC 27320 mailing address: P.O. Box 271 Altamahaw, NC 27202 *telephone:* *336.349.5709* *email:* david at centuryfarmorchards.com (we reply) Simple Website......Superior Service https://www.centuryfarmorchards.com/ On 11/22/2020 6:16 PM, nafex-request at lists.ibiblio.org wrote: > > [nafex] OT: Glad to See Teaffic.eml > > Subject: > [nafex] OT: Glad to See Teaffic > From: > Chris Garriss > Date: > 11/22/2020, 5:53 PM > > To: > Nafex > > > I am overjoyed to see the, hopefully not temporary, increase in traffic on > the list. > > Pawpaws - I am not sure exactly who or where, but I saw a note on the > Extension Service in Chatham County NC about a local that has planted in > excess of 40 Pawpaw trees and is testing for the best varieties. During > the season some fruits are available for sale at the local farmers market > in Pittsboro NC, but arrangements must be made in advance, they do not > always bring any to the market. > > If there is interest I (or you) can contact the Ag Extension Service in > Chatham County NC to see if a name and contact information are available. > > The soils of Chatham are not the "friendliest", most of the county has > heavy red clay, with areas that have a grsyer clay. The gray stuff hardens > into something like concrete, and when wet can be as slimey and slick as > grease. However, Chatham County is where Lee Calhoun lived and had his > extensive apple collection. Both Lee and his wife are no longer alive, and > I am not sure what may have become of his mini orchard. > > >From My Samsung S20 5G > 919.357.0863 > From rosholdt at erols.com Wed Nov 25 12:31:04 2020 From: rosholdt at erols.com (Rosholdt) Date: Wed, 25 Nov 2020 12:31:04 -0500 Subject: [nafex] Pawpaw seedlings - true to parent? (Louis Pittman) In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <6e35d378-cc98-d3d4-64fb-c20fbecef192@erols.com> I know they are not true to seed.?? I saved several dozen seeds from a tasting and ended up with about 12 trees.? Of these, I grew to fruiting, and replaced the icky ones.? I have 3 left, and one is being grafted onto.? I ended up with one really nice tree.? I wish I could have had trees like the PA Golden, and others, but pawpaws are like apples - or people - you really don't know what you will get.? As to rootstock, it is not practically possible to clone pawpaws, subsequently the rootstocks are seedlings that grow well enough to be grafted.??? For updates on the rootstock situation, check with KY State University, the germplasm repository for North American pawpaws. Barbara R Zone 7a/6c? Central Virginia On 11/23/2020 5:03 PM, nafex-request at lists.ibiblio.org wrote: > 1. Re: Pawpaw seedlings - true to parent? (Louis Pittman) > > Re: [nafex] Pawpaw seedlings - true to parent?.eml > > Subject: > Re: [nafex] Pawpaw seedlings - true to parent? > From: > Louis Pittman > Date: > 11/23/2020, 5:02 PM > > To: > mailing list at ibiblio - Northamerican Allied Fruit Experimenters > > > > Other than these handful of seedlings grown from seed I bought from > Tollgate Nursery (Corwin Davis' daughter and son-in-law) , years ago, I've > not really kept any to fruiting... have given away many seedlings and > numerous quarts of seed from grafted trees - but at this juncture, I can't > tell you what the parent variety is for any of these seedlings, nor which > still have many or any of their multiple grafts still in existence. Other > than one graft of Mango on a wild pawpaw growing in the fenceline well away > from the house, I can't identify any of my pawpaw grafts anymore. > > So... not my own personal experience, but some of the earliest literature I > encountered from the resurgence of interest and research into pawpaws, back > at least into the early 1990s - by folks like Desmond Layne, Corwin Davis, > etc., suggested that a high percentage of seedlings produced fruit similar > to, if not comparable to, that of the parent variety. John Gordon offered, > in addition to named variety graftlings and scionwood, several > named-parentage seedling pawpaw selections, which he usually denoted as SAA > (Saved As 'A')... like SAA Zimmerman, etc., which was a seedling of > Zimmerman that produced fruit all but indistinguishable from the parent > tree. > > Lucky > > On Mon, Nov 23, 2020 at 2:31 PM Elizabeth Hilborn > wrote: > >> Hi Lucky, >> >> Is that your personal experience? Or can anyone else on list vouch for >> this? >> >> I have not had pawpaw seedlings fruit yet, but I have seen diametrically >> opposed opinions on this around the 'net. >> >> Elizabeth >> >> On 11/23/2020 8:37 AM, Louis Pittman wrote: >>> Pawpaw fruits from named-parentage seedlings are >>> quite similar in most respects to those of the parent variety. From ehilborn at mebtel.net Wed Nov 25 12:43:20 2020 From: ehilborn at mebtel.net (Elizabeth Hilborn) Date: Wed, 25 Nov 2020 12:43:20 -0500 Subject: [nafex] Glad to See Traffic - Lee Calhoun's trees In-Reply-To: <77e9984b-fcc8-3c80-52f6-c1067e7e41a0@erols.com> References: <77e9984b-fcc8-3c80-52f6-c1067e7e41a0@erols.com> Message-ID: <6a41e21a-ef74-c8d4-5853-2755ed1ea28b@mebtel.net> Lee also donated scionwood and time to establish his collection at Horne Creek State Historic site in Pinnacle, NC. They refer to the orchard as The Southern Heritage Apple Collection. The last time I visited, there was a dwarf and a semi-dwarf (M111) tree of each of his varieties. See: https://historicsites.nc.gov/all-sites/horne-creek-farm On 11/25/2020 12:14 PM, Rosholdt wrote: > Lee's trees reside with his friend in NC at Century Orchard . Here's a > plug: > > *Century Farm Orchardsred apple against blue sky > **David C. Vernon* > physical address: Reidsville, NC 27320 > mailing address: P.O. Box 271 Altamahaw, NC 27202 > *telephone:* *336.349.5709* > *email:* david at centuryfarmorchards.com > (we reply) > > > ???? Simple Website......Superior Service > > https://www.centuryfarmorchards.com/ > > On 11/22/2020 6:16 PM, nafex-request at lists.ibiblio.org wrote: >> >> [nafex] OT: Glad to See Teaffic.eml >> >> Subject: >> [nafex] OT: Glad to See Teaffic >> From: >> Chris Garriss >> Date: >> 11/22/2020, 5:53 PM >> >> To: >> Nafex >> >> >> I am overjoyed to see the, hopefully not temporary, increase in >> traffic on >> the list. >> >> Pawpaws - I am not sure exactly who or where, but I saw a note on the >> Extension Service in Chatham County NC about a local that has planted in >> excess of 40 Pawpaw trees and is testing for the best varieties.? During >> the season some fruits? are available for sale at the local farmers >> market >> in Pittsboro NC, but arrangements must be made in advance, they do not >> always bring any to the market. >> >> If there is interest I (or you) can contact the Ag Extension Service in >> Chatham County NC to see if a name and contact information are >> available. >> >> The soils of Chatham are not the "friendliest", most of the county has >> heavy red clay, with areas that have a grsyer clay.? The gray stuff >> hardens >> into something like concrete,? and when wet can be as slimey and >> slick as >> grease.? However, Chatham County is where Lee Calhoun lived and had his >> extensive apple collection.? Both Lee and his wife are no longer >> alive, and >> I am not sure what may have become of his mini orchard. >> >> >From My Samsung S20 5G >> 919.357.0863 >> > __________________ From organic87 at frontiernet.net Wed Nov 25 14:14:44 2020 From: organic87 at frontiernet.net (Road's End Farm) Date: Wed, 25 Nov 2020 14:14:44 -0500 Subject: [nafex] Glad to See Traffic - Lee Calhoun's trees In-Reply-To: <77e9984b-fcc8-3c80-52f6-c1067e7e41a0@erols.com> References: <77e9984b-fcc8-3c80-52f6-c1067e7e41a0@erols.com> Message-ID: It's a relief to see that! thanks for telling us. > On Nov 25, 2020, at 12:14 PM, Rosholdt wrote: > > Lee's trees reside with his friend in NC at Century Orchard . From organic87 at frontiernet.net Wed Nov 25 14:17:02 2020 From: organic87 at frontiernet.net (Road's End Farm) Date: Wed, 25 Nov 2020 14:17:02 -0500 Subject: [nafex] Glad to See Traffic - Lee Calhoun's trees In-Reply-To: <6a41e21a-ef74-c8d4-5853-2755ed1ea28b@mebtel.net> References: <77e9984b-fcc8-3c80-52f6-c1067e7e41a0@erols.com> <6a41e21a-ef74-c8d4-5853-2755ed1ea28b@mebtel.net> Message-ID: <7BB25F5D-E52C-4E83-A975-05AEE0CD632D@frontiernet.net> Whoops -- should have read further down the new emails before posting. Very good to see this also. > On Nov 25, 2020, at 12:43 PM, Elizabeth Hilborn wrote: > > Lee also donated scionwood and time to establish his collection at Horne Creek State Historic site in Pinnacle, NC. They refer to the orchard as The Southern Heritage Apple Collection. The last time I visited, there was a dwarf and a semi-dwarf (M111) tree of each of his varieties.