From pete_tallman at hotmail.com Tue Sep 6 06:24:25 2016 From: pete_tallman at hotmail.com (Pete Tallman) Date: Tue, 6 Sep 2016 10:24:25 +0000 Subject: [nafex] Niwot Black Raspberry Patent Message-ID: I am pleased to announce that the U.S. Plant Patent for the 'Niwot' primocane-fruiting black raspberry was issued today as U.S. Plant Patent number PP27,131. Help from certain NAFEX people was essential to the breeding program. Pete Tallman Louisville, CO (formerly Longmont, CO) From jwlehmantree at gmail.com Tue Sep 6 07:46:57 2016 From: jwlehmantree at gmail.com (Jerry Lehman) Date: Tue, 6 Sep 2016 07:46:57 -0400 Subject: [nafex] Niwot Black Raspberry Patent In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <5b23468d-4ff5-d2ce-6ecd-54e6c6c2da44@gmail.com> On 9/6/2016 6:24 AM, Pete Tallman wrote: > I am pleased to announce that the U.S. Plant Patent for the 'Niwot' primocane-fruiting black raspberry was issued today as U.S. Plant Patent number PP27,131. Help from certain NAFEX people was essential to the breeding program. Good Morning Pete, Congratulations on achieving the plant patent for Niwot. We purchased 5 plants last spring and have been very pleased with it. I am planning to rip out the old raspberry bed of which I don't remember the original variety and I suspect now is primarily under performing seedlings. I was under the impression that Niwot would set 2 crops, an early summer then late fall. Quite frankly it seems to be more ever bearing than a duel ripening season as we have been picking fruit now for 60 days with many new clusters forming. Many of the berries are actually dual (Siamese twin) with one being larger than the other. It is very vigorous and I need to increase the height of the top trellis wire to keep the cains off the ground. Presently the top wire is about 5 feet and I should add another one 2 feet higher. Again, congratulations and my fruit breeding hat is off to you. Jerry Lehman From list at ginda.us Tue Sep 6 07:52:12 2016 From: list at ginda.us (Ginda) Date: Tue, 06 Sep 2016 07:52:12 -0400 Subject: [nafex] Niwot Black Raspberry Patent In-Reply-To: <5b23468d-4ff5-d2ce-6ecd-54e6c6c2da44@gmail.com> References: <5b23468d-4ff5-d2ce-6ecd-54e6c6c2da44@gmail.com> Message-ID: <2151348D-CF52-4AC4-B23B-402BDEEC75A0@ginda.us> On September 6, 2016 7:46:57 AM EDT, Jerry Lehman wrote: >On 9/6/2016 6:24 AM, Pete Tallman wrote: >> I am pleased to announce that the U.S. Plant Patent for the 'Niwot' >primocane-fruiting black raspberry was issued today as U.S. Plant >Patent number PP27,131. Help from certain NAFEX people was essential >to the breeding program. >Good Morning Pete, > >Congratulations on achieving the plant patent for Niwot. > >We purchased 5 plants last spring and have been very pleased with it. I > >am planning to rip out the old raspberry bed of which I don't remember >the original variety and I suspect now is primarily under performing >seedlings. I was under the impression that Niwot would set 2 crops, an >early summer then late fall. Quite frankly it seems to be more ever >bearing than a duel ripening season as we have been picking fruit now >for 60 days with many new clusters forming. Many of the berries are >actually dual (Siamese twin) with one being larger than the other. It >is >very vigorous and I need to increase the height of the top trellis wire > >to keep the cains off the ground. Presently the top wire is about 5 >feet >and I should add another one 2 feet higher. > >Again, congratulations and my fruit breeding hat is off to you. > >Jerry Lehman Wow! That's impressive. How are the flavor and texture? -- Ginda From organic87 at frontiernet.net Tue Sep 6 08:33:08 2016 From: organic87 at frontiernet.net (Road's End Farm) Date: Tue, 6 Sep 2016 08:33:08 -0400 Subject: [nafex] Niwot Black Raspberry Patent In-Reply-To: <2151348D-CF52-4AC4-B23B-402BDEEC75A0@ginda.us> References: <5b23468d-4ff5-d2ce-6ecd-54e6c6c2da44@gmail.com> <2151348D-CF52-4AC4-B23B-402BDEEC75A0@ginda.us> Message-ID: On Sep 6, 2016, at 7:52 AM, Ginda wrote: >> > > Wow! That's impressive. How are the flavor and texture? > Also, how's the virus resistance and hardiness? -- Rivka; Finger Lakes NY, Zone 6A now I think Fresh-market organic produce, small scale From jwlehmantree at gmail.com Tue Sep 6 08:50:03 2016 From: jwlehmantree at gmail.com (Jerry Lehman) Date: Tue, 6 Sep 2016 08:50:03 -0400 Subject: [nafex] Niwot Black Raspberry Patent In-Reply-To: References: <5b23468d-4ff5-d2ce-6ecd-54e6c6c2da44@gmail.com> <2151348D-CF52-4AC4-B23B-402BDEEC75A0@ginda.us> Message-ID: On 9/6/2016 8:33 AM, Road's End Farm wrote: > Also, how's the virus resistance and hardiness? Thus far no problems, but this is only the second season. From rosholdt at erols.com Tue Sep 6 10:33:09 2016 From: rosholdt at erols.com (Rosholdt) Date: Tue, 6 Sep 2016 10:33:09 -0400 Subject: [nafex] Niwot Black Raspberry Patent (Jerry Lehman) In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <05cafd63-8c02-c6b7-fbc9-518fc115f9f3@erols.com> Let me add my congratulations on Niwot! I have 1 plant I am trying out. Due to my illness and injury, the poor thing has been underwatered, overrun with weeds, including vetch, and ground ivy for two years, and, most recently, the worst: passiflora. I did finally clear out the passiflora and anything climbing the stems and, in spite of our drought and the blazing heat, it is currently bearing a nice fall crop. So I'd say Niwot is vigorous. I second everything Jerry says about them (they are lanky) and they taste ..... wait for it .... just like Black Raspberries! :-) Congratulations to all who assisted in this effort, my thanks to you! Barbara Rosholdt Central Virginia - zone 6c/7a, depending On 9/6/2016 7:47 AM, nafex-request at lists.ibiblio.org wrote: Congratulations on achieving the plant patent for Niwot. We purchased 5 plants last spring and have been very pleased with it. I am planning to rip out the old raspberry bed of which I don't remember the original variety and I suspect now is primarily under performing seedlings. I was under the impression that Niwot would set 2 crops, an early summer then late fall. Quite frankly it seems to be more ever bearing than a duel ripening season as we have been picking fruit now for 60 days with many new clusters forming. Many of the berries are actually dual (Siamese twin) with one being larger than the other. It is very vigorous and I need to increase the height of the top trellis wire to keep the cains off the ground. Presently the top wire is about 5 feet and I should add another one 2 feet higher. Again, congratulations and my fruit breeding hat is off to you. Jerry Lehman From rhoras at nuttrees.com Tue Sep 6 11:16:53 2016 From: rhoras at nuttrees.com (Charles Rhora) Date: Tue, 6 Sep 2016 11:16:53 -0400 Subject: [nafex] Niwot Black Raspberry Patent In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <000001d20851$b3674b30$1a35e190$@nuttrees.com> Pete - Congratulations! What climatic zone are they listed for hardiness? Have a few acres to test here. Presently caring for 8 acres of new paw paw planting. Charles Rhora Wainfleet, Ontario Climatic zone 4. -----Original Message----- From: nafex [mailto:nafex-bounces at lists.ibiblio.org] On Behalf Of Pete Tallman Sent: September 6, 2016 6:24 AM To: nafex Subject: [nafex] Niwot Black Raspberry Patent I am pleased to announce that the U.S. Plant Patent for the 'Niwot' primocane-fruiting black raspberry was issued today as U.S. Plant Patent number PP27,131. Help from certain NAFEX people was essential to the breeding program. Pete Tallman Louisville, CO (formerly Longmont, CO) __________________ nafex mailing list nafex at lists.ibiblio.org Northamerican Allied Fruit Experimenters subscribe/unsubscribe|user config|list info: http://lists.ibiblio.org/mailman/listinfo/nafex ----- No virus found in this message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 2015.0.6201 / Virus Database: 4649/12949 - Release Date: 09/05/16 From orders at cuttsreviews.com Tue Sep 6 12:12:09 2016 From: orders at cuttsreviews.com (Jay Cutts) Date: Tue, 6 Sep 2016 10:12:09 -0600 Subject: [nafex] Niwot Black Raspberry Patent In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <5fad76e7-1ca5-16b5-3c03-53372b9f073e@cuttsreviews.com> Congratulations, Pete! Mine died long ago but so have most of my raspberries. Tough environment here. Regards, Jay Jay Cutts Director, Cutts Graduate Reviews Lead Author, Barron's MCAT Prep Book Lead Author, Barron's MCAT Flash Cards Lead Author, Barron's LSAT Prep Book (505)-281-0684 10 am to 10 pm Mt Time, 7 days On 9/6/2016 4:24 AM, Pete Tallman wrote: > I am pleased to announce that the U.S. Plant Patent for the 'Niwot' primocane-fruiting black raspberry was issued today as U.S. Plant Patent number PP27,131. Help from certain NAFEX people was essential to the breeding program. > > Pete Tallman > Louisville, CO (formerly Longmont, CO) > __________________ > nafex mailing list > nafex at lists.ibiblio.org > Northamerican Allied Fruit Experimenters > subscribe/unsubscribe|user config|list info: > http://lists.ibiblio.org/mailman/listinfo/nafex From sam739is at hotmail.com Tue Sep 6 13:14:48 2016 From: sam739is at hotmail.com (Sam Brungardt) Date: Tue, 6 Sep 2016 17:14:48 +0000 Subject: [nafex] Niwot Black Raspberry Patent In-Reply-To: <5fad76e7-1ca5-16b5-3c03-53372b9f073e@cuttsreviews.com> References: , <5fad76e7-1ca5-16b5-3c03-53372b9f073e@cuttsreviews.com> Message-ID: This is an exciting development. The first of a unique kind. I wonder how Niwot has been trialed by anyone and how it has performed for them. Please give your location if you can reply. Thanks. -- Sam Brungardt, St. Paul, MN, USDA hardiness zone 4a ________________________________ From: nafex on behalf of Jay Cutts Sent: Tuesday, September 6, 2016 11:12 AM To: mailing list at ibiblio - Northamerican Allied Fruit Experimenters Subject: Re: [nafex] Niwot Black Raspberry Patent Congratulations, Pete! Mine died long ago but so have most of my raspberries. Tough environment here. Regards, Jay Jay Cutts Director, Cutts Graduate Reviews Lead Author, Barron's MCAT Prep Book Lead Author, Barron's MCAT Flash Cards Lead Author, Barron's LSAT Prep Book (505)-281-0684 10 am to 10 pm Mt Time, 7 days On 9/6/2016 4:24 AM, Pete Tallman wrote: > I am pleased to announce that the U.S. Plant Patent for the 'Niwot' primocane-fruiting black raspberry was issued today as U.S. Plant Patent number PP27,131. Help from certain NAFEX people was essential to the breeding program. > > Pete Tallman > Louisville, CO (formerly Longmont, CO) > __________________ > nafex mailing list > nafex at lists.ibiblio.org > Northamerican Allied Fruit Experimenters > subscribe/unsubscribe|user config|list info: > http://lists.ibiblio.org/mailman/listinfo/nafex nafex Info Page - lists.ibiblio.org Mailing Lists lists.ibiblio.org Welcome to the nafex mailing list at ibiblio! Northamerican Allied Fruit Experimenters message archives: http://lists.ibiblio.org/pipermail/nafex __________________ nafex mailing list nafex at lists.ibiblio.org Northamerican Allied Fruit Experimenters subscribe/unsubscribe|user config|list info: http://lists.ibiblio.org/mailman/listinfo/nafex From ramoyer at gmail.com Tue Sep 6 13:51:27 2016 From: ramoyer at gmail.com (Richard Moyer) Date: Tue, 6 Sep 2016 13:51:27 -0400 Subject: [nafex] Niwot trial Message-ID: Sam, Quick search shows that Penn State has trialed 'Niwot' with positive comments. Let me know if you need link(s). Richard Moyer, SW VA Good jujube year here. On Tue, Sep 6, 2016 at 1:15 PM, wrote: > Send nafex mailing list submissions to > nafex at lists.ibiblio.org > > To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit > http://lists.ibiblio.org/mailman/listinfo/nafex > or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to > nafex-request at lists.ibiblio.org > > You can reach the person managing the list at > nafex-owner at lists.ibiblio.org > > When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific > than "Re: Contents of nafex digest..." > > > Today's Topics: > > 1. Re: Niwot Black Raspberry Patent (Sam Brungardt) > > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > > Message: 1 > Date: Tue, 6 Sep 2016 17:14:48 +0000 > From: Sam Brungardt > To: mailing list at ibiblio - Northamerican Allied Fruit Experimenters > > Subject: Re: [nafex] Niwot Black Raspberry Patent > Message-ID: > namprd15.prod.outlook.com> > > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" > > This is an exciting development. The first of a unique kind. > > > I wonder how Niwot has been trialed by anyone and how it has performed for > them. Please give your location if you can reply. Thanks. -- Sam > Brungardt, St. Paul, MN, USDA hardiness zone 4a > > > > ________________________________ > From: nafex on behalf of Jay Cutts < > orders at cuttsreviews.com> > Sent: Tuesday, September 6, 2016 11:12 AM > To: mailing list at ibiblio - Northamerican Allied Fruit Experimenters > Subject: Re: [nafex] Niwot Black Raspberry Patent > > Congratulations, Pete! > > Mine died long ago but so have most of my raspberries. Tough environment > here. > > Regards, > > Jay > > Jay Cutts > Director, Cutts Graduate Reviews > Lead Author, Barron's MCAT Prep Book > Lead Author, Barron's MCAT Flash Cards > Lead Author, Barron's LSAT Prep Book > (505)-281-0684 > 10 am to 10 pm Mt Time, 7 days > > On 9/6/2016 4:24 AM, Pete Tallman wrote: > > I am pleased to announce that the U.S. Plant Patent for the 'Niwot' > primocane-fruiting black raspberry was issued today as U.S. Plant Patent > number PP27,131. Help from certain NAFEX people was essential to the > breeding program. > > > > Pete Tallman > > Louisville, CO (formerly Longmont, CO) > > __________________ > > nafex mailing list > > nafex at lists.ibiblio.org > > Northamerican Allied Fruit Experimenters > > subscribe/unsubscribe|user config|list info: > > http://lists.ibiblio.org/mailman/listinfo/nafex > nafex Info Page - lists.ibiblio.org Mailing Lists org/mailman/listinfo/nafex> > lists.ibiblio.org > Welcome to the nafex mailing list at ibiblio! Northamerican Allied Fruit > Experimenters message archives: http://lists.ibiblio.org/pipermail/nafex > > > > __________________ > nafex mailing list > nafex at lists.ibiblio.org > Northamerican Allied Fruit Experimenters > subscribe/unsubscribe|user config|list info: > http://lists.ibiblio.org/mailman/listinfo/nafex > > > ------------------------------ > > Subject: Digest Footer > > __________________ > nafex mailing list > nafex at lists.ibiblio.org > Northamerican Allied Fruit Experimenters > subscribe/unsubscribe|user config|list info: > http://lists.ibiblio.org/mailman/listinfo/nafex > > ------------------------------ > > End of nafex Digest, Vol 186, Issue 6 > ************************************* > From dwoodard at becon.org Wed Sep 7 14:39:03 2016 From: dwoodard at becon.org (dwoodard at becon.org) Date: Wed, 07 Sep 2016 14:39:03 -0400 Subject: [nafex] [ARTICLE] New juice grape for warmer areas In-Reply-To: <85847478-3fda-4974-9f0e-68bbfed65818@googlegroups.com> References: <17df07.53a9fe48.4501b0f8@aol.com> <359e58c3-f52b-4963-81cf-60e0e0cbaa12@googlegroups.com> <85847478-3fda-4974-9f0e-68bbfed65818@googlegroups.com> Message-ID: See Doug Woodard St. Catharines, Ontario From pete_tallman at hotmail.com Sun Sep 11 04:50:27 2016 From: pete_tallman at hotmail.com (Pete Tallman) Date: Sun, 11 Sep 2016 08:50:27 +0000 Subject: [nafex] Niwot Black Raspberry hardiness and disease resistance Message-ID: In response to a few question on hardiness and disease resistance. Niwot hardiness is rated as zone 5, and there are some reports (including mine and local growers) that Niwot is slightly more hardy than Jewel black raspberry. The problem with going to zone 4 or lower is that the primocane crop could have trouble ripening in the shorter season. Jim Fruth reported hardiness to zone 3, but if you are there, you should consider his Pequot instead. Berries ripening in the cooler fall weather won't have so much sweetness. As an experiment, you might want to try eliminating the floricanes to move the primocane crop earlier. For Canadian growers, In spring 2016, Niwot was offered by Strawberry Tyme Farm and Wiffletree Farm and Nursery, both in Ontario. Check with them for 2017. There has been scant information on the Niwot disease resistance. There were a few anecdotal reports as being better than Jewel, but nothing I want to claim about this. Pete Tallman Louisville, CO zone 5 or so From treehugger53ah at yahoo.com Sun Sep 11 18:22:31 2016 From: treehugger53ah at yahoo.com (Henry) Date: Sun, 11 Sep 2016 22:22:31 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [nafex] trezibond date References: <910587559.2538163.1473632551860.ref@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <910587559.2538163.1473632551860@mail.yahoo.com> There does not seem to be much information about this plant. The internet suggests it is the same species as Russian olive. The fruit is much larger and sweet. A friend from Turkey claims it was a favored fruit among the children when he was growing up. He brought me a bag of the fruit. They look like dates with a light brown dry skin. I broke one open with my fingernail and found a dry almost white mealiness inside. It did not look appetizing. It was sweet but not at all like a date. I tried manually cleaning the seed and it was way too difficult. But I could clean them well with my teeth. The taste grew on me and I found myself happily cleaning the rest of them. Does anyone know if I can expect good quality fruit from seed? Does anyone have experience growing it in North America? --Henry Fieldseth Minneapolis, Minnesota, USA, zone 4 From cgarriss at garriss.net Sun Sep 11 19:34:35 2016 From: cgarriss at garriss.net (Chris Garriss) Date: Sun, 11 Sep 2016 19:34:35 -0400 Subject: [nafex] trezibond date In-Reply-To: <910587559.2538163.1473632551860@mail.yahoo.com> References: <910587559.2538163.1473632551860.ref@mail.yahoo.com> <910587559.2538163.1473632551860@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: The info I found called it Trebizond Date, and said it was e. orientalis, which would be a different species. One review compared the two, with Trebizond being preferred. Apparently known in Iran and other countries by various names, and available by mail order suppliers of Middle Eastern food and seasoning suppliers. However, I am not personally acquainted, but sounds quite interesting. Chris Garriss Sent via Android Phone On Sep 11, 2016 18:29, "Henry" wrote: > There does not seem to be much information about this plant. > > The internet suggests it is the same species as Russian olive. The fruit > is much larger and sweet. > > A friend from Turkey claims it was a favored fruit among the children when > he was growing up. He brought me a bag of the fruit. > > They look like dates with a light brown dry skin. I broke one open with my > fingernail and found a dry almost white mealiness inside. It did not look > appetizing. It was sweet but not at all like a date. > > I tried manually cleaning the seed and it was way too difficult. But I > could clean them well with my teeth. The taste grew on me and I found > myself happily cleaning the rest of them. > > Does anyone know if I can expect good quality fruit from seed? > > Does anyone have experience growing it in North America? > > --Henry Fieldseth > Minneapolis, Minnesota, USA, zone 4 > > __________________ > nafex mailing list > nafex at lists.ibiblio.org > Northamerican Allied Fruit Experimenters > subscribe/unsubscribe|user config|list info: > http://lists.ibiblio.org/mailman/listinfo/nafex > From leeareich at gmail.com Sun Sep 11 20:29:10 2016 From: leeareich at gmail.com (Lee Reich) Date: Sun, 11 Sep 2016 20:29:10 -0400 Subject: [nafex] trezibond date In-Reply-To: References: <910587559.2538163.1473632551860.ref@mail.yahoo.com> <910587559.2538163.1473632551860@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: From the Elaeagnus chapter in my book Uncommon Fruits for Every Garden: More soothing to the taste buds are Russian olive (Elaeagnus angustifolia) fruits, which are silvery yellow, mealy, sweet, and about half an inch long. They ripen in late summer. A botanical variety with a red skin, E. angustifolia var. orientalis, is familiar in the markets of Turkey and surrounding countries. Fruits are eaten fresh, dried, stewed in milk, or boiled with sugar. When dry, the loose skin of i?de, as the fruit is called in Turkey, peels away easily to reveal a cream-colored, almost dusty, sweet pulp that practically dissolves in your mouth. (This red-fruited form has sometimes been referred to erroneously as the Trebizond date, which is in fact the date plum, Diospyros lotus, another small, dark, sweet, dried fruit eaten in that part of the world.) Lee Reich, PhD Come visit my farmden at http://www.leereich.com/blog http://leereich.com/ Books by Lee Reich: A Northeast Gardener's Year The Pruning Book Weedless Gardening Uncommon Fruits for Every Garden Landscaping with Fruit Grow Fruit Naturally > On Sep 11, 2016, at 7:34 PM, Chris Garriss wrote: > > The info I found called it Trebizond Date, and said it was e. orientalis, > which would be a different species. One review compared the two, with > Trebizond being preferred. Apparently known in Iran and other countries by > various names, and available by mail order suppliers of Middle Eastern food > and seasoning suppliers. > > However, I am not personally acquainted, but sounds quite interesting. > > Chris Garriss > Sent via Android Phone > > On Sep 11, 2016 18:29, "Henry" wrote: > >> There does not seem to be much information about this plant. >> >> The internet suggests it is the same species as Russian olive. The fruit >> is much larger and sweet. >> >> A friend from Turkey claims it was a favored fruit among the children when >> he was growing up. He brought me a bag of the fruit. >> >> They look like dates with a light brown dry skin. I broke one open with my >> fingernail and found a dry almost white mealiness inside. It did not look >> appetizing. It was sweet but not at all like a date. >> >> I tried manually cleaning the seed and it was way too difficult. But I >> could clean them well with my teeth. The taste grew on me and I found >> myself happily cleaning the rest of them. >> >> Does anyone know if I can expect good quality fruit from seed? >> >> Does anyone have experience growing it in North America? >> >> --Henry Fieldseth >> Minneapolis, Minnesota, USA, zone 4 >> >> __________________ >> nafex mailing list >> nafex at lists.ibiblio.org >> Northamerican Allied Fruit Experimenters >> subscribe/unsubscribe|user config|list info: >> http://lists.ibiblio.org/mailman/listinfo/nafex >> > __________________ > nafex mailing list > nafex at lists.ibiblio.org > Northamerican Allied Fruit Experimenters > subscribe/unsubscribe|user config|list info: > http://lists.ibiblio.org/mailman/listinfo/nafex From jrplelie at centurylink.net Sun Sep 11 21:38:44 2016 From: jrplelie at centurylink.net (PATTY ) Date: Sun, 11 Sep 2016 21:38:44 -0400 (EDT) Subject: [nafex] trezibond date In-Reply-To: <910587559.2538163.1473632551860@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <937863599.6100795.1473644324498.JavaMail.root@centurylink.net> Henry, You might be able to find it in one of the Middle Eastern grocers in your area as well. I have purchased it in the past and have germinated seed but it has been years since. They germinated pretty comparably with apple and pear seeds that I start. Also, I purchased a couple small trees of "King Red" from Forest Farm Nursery. One died on its own and this past spring I removed the second which wasn't thriving. I did save scion wood and did about 10 grafts on a few local Russian Olive trees. Most survived but the vigor of the Russian olive required being cutting back several times. With the scion wood I had I was considering the experiment topworking but if I had it to do over, I would cut the RO back to a 2-3 foot trunk and graft onto that. Rind grafting and cleft grafting both seemed to do well. I still have scion wood and dependent on its condition, I may try a few more grafts next spring. I am also thinking of starting a few from seed as well. Any chance I could get a few seeds from you? I am near Green Bay? Let me know what you want for the seed. Locating the Igde fruit is made quite difficult by all the names. Poruk Igde, Senjed, Sencet, Oleaster, and Mountain Ash. Thanks, Jim Elie ----- Original Message ----- From: "Henry" To: "mailing list at ibiblio - Northamerican Allied Fruit Experimenters" Sent: Sunday, September 11, 2016 5:22:31 PM Subject: [nafex] trezibond date There does not seem to be much information about this plant. The internet suggests it is the same species as Russian olive. The fruit is much larger and sweet. A friend from Turkey claims it was a favored fruit among the children when he was growing up. He brought me a bag of the fruit. They look like dates with a light brown dry skin. I broke one open with my fingernail and found a dry almost white mealiness inside. It did not look appetizing. It was sweet but not at all like a date. I tried manually cleaning the seed and it was way too difficult. But I could clean them well with my teeth. The taste grew on me and I found myself happily cleaning the rest of them. Does anyone know if I can expect good quality fruit from seed? Does anyone have experience growing it in North America? --Henry Fieldseth Minneapolis, Minnesota, USA, zone 4 __________________ nafex mailing list nafex at lists.ibiblio.org Northamerican Allied Fruit Experimenters subscribe/unsubscribe|user config|list info: http://lists.ibiblio.org/mailman/listinfo/nafex From jwlehmantree at gmail.com Sun Sep 11 21:47:34 2016 From: jwlehmantree at gmail.com (Jerry Lehman) Date: Sun, 11 Sep 2016 21:47:34 -0400 Subject: [nafex] trezibond date In-Reply-To: References: <910587559.2538163.1473632551860.ref@mail.yahoo.com> <910587559.2538163.1473632551860@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: On 9/11/2016 8:29 PM, Lee Reich wrote: > (This red-fruited form has sometimes been referred to erroneously as the Trebizond date, which is in fact the date plum, Diospyros lotus, another small, dark, sweet, dried fruit eaten in that part of the world.) It sure looks to me like there is a lot of confusion on names. Nothing new here. The 1st message on the subject refers to cleaning the seed with his teeth. If the Trebizond Date where D. lotus it could have up to 8 seeds. Jerry Lehman From jrplelie at centurylink.net Sun Sep 11 22:18:58 2016 From: jrplelie at centurylink.net (PATTY ) Date: Sun, 11 Sep 2016 22:18:58 -0400 (EDT) Subject: [nafex] trezibond date In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <1498527939.6118152.1473646738539.JavaMail.root@centurylink.net> Jerry, Here's what a bag of E. orientalis looks like. Oh, I missed another synonym, Lotus tree fruit. It is definitely not a Diospyros. Traversing so many Middle Eastern cultures hasn't helped the list of names. http://persianbasket.com/sadaf-senjed Jim Elie ----- Original Message ----- From: "Jerry Lehman" To: nafex at lists.ibiblio.org Sent: Sunday, September 11, 2016 8:47:34 PM Subject: Re: [nafex] trezibond date On 9/11/2016 8:29 PM, Lee Reich wrote: > (This red-fruited form has sometimes been referred to erroneously as the Trebizond date, which is in fact the date plum, Diospyros lotus, another small, dark, sweet, dried fruit eaten in that part of the world.) It sure looks to me like there is a lot of confusion on names. Nothing new here. The 1st message on the subject refers to cleaning the seed with his teeth. If the Trebizond Date where D. lotus it could have up to 8 seeds. Jerry Lehman __________________ nafex mailing list nafex at lists.ibiblio.org Northamerican Allied Fruit Experimenters subscribe/unsubscribe|user config|list info: http://lists.ibiblio.org/mailman/listinfo/nafex From leeareich at gmail.com Mon Sep 12 05:17:53 2016 From: leeareich at gmail.com (Lee Reich) Date: Mon, 12 Sep 2016 05:17:53 -0400 Subject: [nafex] trezibond date In-Reply-To: <1498527939.6118152.1473646738539.JavaMail.root@centurylink.net> References: <1498527939.6118152.1473646738539.JavaMail.root@centurylink.net> Message-ID: <2D18E05E-3C30-4EDF-B12F-1411A881353A@leereich.com> I started some seed from fruit in a bag such as the one pictured. I have one seedling. In my experience, and that of others, the plants succumb to summer heat and/or humidity in eastern U.S. My one seedling is a couple of years old. I will be planting it out (it?s in a pot) this fall and see how it fares through winter and next summer. The tree has been widely planted in western US, where it was introduce by the USDA, and grows well there ? too well; it?s now banned there as an invasive. It?s quite beautiful with its red fruits standing out against the gray green foliage. Lee Reich, PhD Come visit my farmden at http://www.leereich.com/blog http://leereich.com/ Books by Lee Reich: A Northeast Gardener's Year The Pruning Book Weedless Gardening Uncommon Fruits for Every Garden Landscaping with Fruit Grow Fruit Naturally > On Sep 11, 2016, at 10:18 PM, PATTY wrote: > > Jerry, Here's what a bag of E. orientalis looks like. Oh, I missed another synonym, Lotus tree fruit. It is definitely not a Diospyros. Traversing so many Middle Eastern cultures hasn't helped the list of names. > > http://persianbasket.com/sadaf-senjed > > Jim Elie > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Jerry Lehman" > To: nafex at lists.ibiblio.org > Sent: Sunday, September 11, 2016 8:47:34 PM > Subject: Re: [nafex] trezibond date > > On 9/11/2016 8:29 PM, Lee Reich wrote: >> (This red-fruited form has sometimes been referred to erroneously as the Trebizond date, which is in fact the date plum, Diospyros lotus, another small, dark, sweet, dried fruit eaten in that part of the world.) > It sure looks to me like there is a lot of confusion on names. Nothing > new here. The 1st message on the subject refers to cleaning the seed > with his teeth. If the Trebizond Date where D. lotus it could have up to > 8 seeds. Jerry Lehman > __________________ > nafex mailing list > nafex at lists.ibiblio.org > Northamerican Allied Fruit Experimenters > subscribe/unsubscribe|user config|list info: > http://lists.ibiblio.org/mailman/listinfo/nafex > __________________ > nafex mailing list > nafex at lists.ibiblio.org > Northamerican Allied Fruit Experimenters > subscribe/unsubscribe|user config|list info: > http://lists.ibiblio.org/mailman/listinfo/nafex From treehugger53ah at yahoo.com Mon Sep 12 09:41:34 2016 From: treehugger53ah at yahoo.com (Henry) Date: Mon, 12 Sep 2016 13:41:34 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [nafex] trezibond date References: <195843592.2688103.1473687694167.ref@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <195843592.2688103.1473687694167@mail.yahoo.com> That is indeed what they look like. There is one seed per fruit, about 3/4 inch long and less than 1/4 inch wide, with longitudinal grooves. I was told to eat them as they were (dried), there was no mention of any cooking. Pealing them was messy and counterproductive. They were called "sultan i?de" (to my ear, pronounced: ee day). According to my Turkish friend, i?de alone refers to the genus /Elaeagnus/ and "sultan i?de" refers to the specific trees with good fruit. No mention of Trebizond or date. They look a bit like dates though. Turkish wikipedia has quite a list of /Elaeagnus/, but it does not include /E. orientalis/ (which western botany seems to have lumped into /L. angustifolia/ without even a varietal separation). I don't read Turkish, but the wikitranslation does suggest that grafting may be necessary for the best fruit. https://translate.google.com/translate?hl=en&sl=tr&u=https://tr.wikipedia.org/wiki/%25C4%25B0%25C4%259Fde&prev=search --Henry -------------------------------------------- On Sun, 9/11/16, PATTY wrote: Subject: Re: [nafex] trezibond date To: "mailing list at ibiblio - Northamerican Allied Fruit Experimenters" Date: Sunday, September 11, 2016, 9:18 PM Jerry, Here's what a bag of E. orientalis looks like.? Oh, I missed another synonym, Lotus tree fruit.? It is definitely not a Diospyros.? Traversing so many Middle Eastern cultures hasn't helped the list of names.? http://persianbasket.com/sadaf-senjed Jim Elie ----- Original Message ----- From: "Jerry Lehman" To: nafex at lists.ibiblio.org Sent: Sunday, September 11, 2016 8:47:34 PM Subject: Re: [nafex] trezibond date On 9/11/2016 8:29 PM, Lee Reich wrote: >???(This red-fruited form has sometimes been referred to erroneously as the Trebizond date, which is in fact the date plum, Diospyros lotus, another small, dark, sweet, dried fruit eaten in that part of the world.) It sure looks to me like there is a lot of confusion on names. Nothing new here. The 1st message on the subject refers to cleaning the seed with his teeth. If the Trebizond Date where D. lotus it could have up to 8 seeds. Jerry Lehman __________________ nafex mailing list nafex at lists.ibiblio.org Northamerican Allied Fruit Experimenters subscribe/unsubscribe|user config|list info: http://lists.ibiblio.org/mailman/listinfo/nafex __________________ nafex mailing list nafex at lists.ibiblio.org Northamerican Allied Fruit Experimenters subscribe/unsubscribe|user config|list info: http://lists.ibiblio.org/mailman/listinfo/nafex From treehugger53ah at yahoo.com Mon Sep 12 10:09:24 2016 From: treehugger53ah at yahoo.com (Henry) Date: Mon, 12 Sep 2016 14:09:24 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [nafex] trezibond date References: <1151939820.2748128.1473689364836.ref@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <1151939820.2748128.1473689364836@mail.yahoo.com> Lee, Do you know if the trees widely planted in the West, are regular Russian olive or the variety /orientalis/? The Russian olive has been widely planted here but only the kind with small silvery fruit. The follow up question is: if they planted the large-fruited variety, did the invasive seedlings still have the large fruit? --Henry Fieldseth Minneapolis, Minnesota, USA, zone 4 -------------------------------------------- On Mon, 9/12/16, Lee Reich wrote: Subject: Re: [nafex] trezibond date To: "mailing list at ibiblio - Northamerican Allied Fruit Experimenters" Date: Monday, September 12, 2016, 4:17 AM I started some seed from fruit in a bag such as the one pictured. I have one seedling. In my experience, and that of others, the plants succumb to summer heat and/or humidity in eastern U.S. My one seedling is a couple of years old. I will be planting it out (it?s in a pot) this fall and see how it fares through winter and next summer. The tree has been widely planted in western US, where it was introduce by the USDA, and grows well there ? too well; it?s now banned there as an invasive. It?s quite beautiful with its red fruits standing out against the gray green foliage. Lee Reich, PhD Come visit my farmden at? http://www.leereich.com/blog http://leereich.com/ Books by Lee Reich: A Northeast Gardener's Year The Pruning Book Weedless Gardening Uncommon Fruits for Every Garden Landscaping with Fruit Grow Fruit Naturally > On Sep 11, 2016, at 10:18 PM, PATTY wrote: > > Jerry, Here's what a bag of E. orientalis looks like.? Oh, I missed another synonym, Lotus tree fruit.? It is definitely not a Diospyros.? Traversing so many Middle Eastern cultures hasn't helped the list of names.? > > http://persianbasket.com/sadaf-senjed > > Jim Elie > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Jerry Lehman" > To: nafex at lists.ibiblio.org > Sent: Sunday, September 11, 2016 8:47:34 PM > Subject: Re: [nafex] trezibond date > > On 9/11/2016 8:29 PM, Lee Reich wrote: >>? (This red-fruited form has sometimes been referred to erroneously as the Trebizond date, which is in fact the date plum, Diospyros lotus, another small, dark, sweet, dried fruit eaten in that part of the world.) > It sure looks to me like there is a lot of confusion on names. Nothing > new here. The 1st message on the subject refers to cleaning the seed > with his teeth. If the Trebizond Date where D. lotus it could have up to > 8 seeds. Jerry Lehman > __________________ > nafex mailing list > nafex at lists.ibiblio.org > Northamerican Allied Fruit Experimenters > subscribe/unsubscribe|user config|list info: > http://lists.ibiblio.org/mailman/listinfo/nafex > __________________ > nafex mailing list > nafex at lists.ibiblio.org > Northamerican Allied Fruit Experimenters > subscribe/unsubscribe|user config|list info: > http://lists.ibiblio.org/mailman/listinfo/nafex __________________ nafex mailing list nafex at lists.ibiblio.org Northamerican Allied Fruit Experimenters subscribe/unsubscribe|user config|list info: http://lists.ibiblio.org/mailman/listinfo/nafex From sam739is at hotmail.com Mon Sep 12 11:48:17 2016 From: sam739is at hotmail.com (Sam Brungardt) Date: Mon, 12 Sep 2016 15:48:17 +0000 Subject: [nafex] Italian grows forgotten fruit. What she preserves is a culture, (NY Times) Message-ID: Italian Grows Forgotten Fruit. What She Preserves Is a Culture. New York Times But on her farm, Isabella Dalla Ragione pursues a personal mission - saving ancient fruit trees from extinction - with a strong sense of urgency. From dwoodard at becon.org Tue Sep 13 10:31:26 2016 From: dwoodard at becon.org (dwoodard at becon.org) Date: Tue, 13 Sep 2016 10:31:26 -0400 Subject: [nafex] [ARTICLE] Italian Grows Forgotten Fruit. What She Preserves Is a Culture. In-Reply-To: <57D80CEC.0000020A@pmta04.ewr1.nytimes.com> References: <57D80CEC.0000020A@pmta04.ewr1.nytimes.com> Message-ID: <371a795e43e069110eb5bb756121cb3f@becon.org> See http://nyti.ms/2cBzA4s Doug Woodard St. Catharines, Ontario From sam739is at hotmail.com Wed Sep 14 22:18:41 2016 From: sam739is at hotmail.com (Sam Brungardt) Date: Thu, 15 Sep 2016 02:18:41 +0000 Subject: [nafex] The Currant Farm's Black Currant and Apple Strudel Message-ID: If you are fortunate enough to have some frozen black currants, you may want to try this dessert, from a New York grower who sells black currants (dried, frozen, juice, etc.) on the Internet. -- Sam Brungardt, St. Paul, Minn. The Currant Farm's Black Currant & Apple Strudel Ingredients 1 large Golden Delicious apple, peeled, cored and sliced 1/8 to 1/4-inch thick 1/2 lemon, juiced 1 cup CurrantC(tm) black currants, fresh or thawed 1/2 cup sugar, plus 2 tablespoons 2 tablespoons cold butter, cut into small pieces 2 tablespoons butter, melted All-purpose flour, for dusting ? cup Quaker Old Fashioned Oats 1 sheet frozen puff pastry, thawed according to directions on box. 4 teaspoons ground cinnamon [http://static.sendgrid.com/uploads/UID_1140832_NL_23061038_b6293dd82dce4a4a91a3adf3a88f5f40/d783accf2b53ed6fa6625ea149a1ed98] Directions Position an oven rack in the center of the oven and preheat to 375 degrees F. In a large bowl, toss the sliced apples with the lemon juice until the apples are thoroughly coated. Add the black currants, 1/4 cup sugar, and the 2 tablespoons cold cubed butter and toss well. Set aside. Lightly dust the work surface with flour. Lay the puff pastry on top and dust the rolling pin with additional flour. Gently roll the puff pastry to 1/8-inch thickness. Position the sheet of puff pastry on a parchment lined baking sheet. Sprinkle the Quaker Old Fashioned Oats on half of the pastry to absorb the juices Spread the black currant & apple mixture on top of the oats leaving about 1-inch of space along the side edges. Sprinkle 2 teaspoons of cinnamon over the mix. Brush some of the melted butter along the 1" edge of the pastry to help seal. Fold the other half over the mix and pinch to seal the edges together tightly. Brush the entire strudel with the melted butter. Sprinkle with 2 teaspoons of cinnamon and remaining sugar. Using a sharp knife, make 3 diagonal slits across the top of the strudel. Bake for 40 minutes, rotating halfway through cooking, until the pastry is puffed and golden brown. From rizzolori1 at gmail.com Fri Sep 23 11:22:48 2016 From: rizzolori1 at gmail.com (Lori Rizzo) Date: Fri, 23 Sep 2016 11:22:48 -0400 Subject: [nafex] The Currant Farm's Black Currant and Apple Strudel In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Sounds pretty good to me!? On Wed, Sep 14, 2016 at 10:18 PM, Sam Brungardt wrote: > If you are fortunate enough to have some frozen black currants, you may > want to try this dessert, from a New York grower who sells black currants > (dried, frozen, juice, etc.) on the Internet. -- Sam Brungardt, St. Paul, > Minn. > > > The Currant Farm's Black Currant & Apple Strudel > > Ingredients > 1 large Golden Delicious apple, peeled, cored and sliced 1/8 to 1/4-inch > thick > 1/2 lemon, juiced > 1 cup CurrantC(tm) black currants, fresh or thawed > 1/2 cup sugar, plus 2 tablespoons > 2 tablespoons cold butter, cut into small pieces > 2 tablespoons butter, melted > All-purpose flour, for dusting > ? cup Quaker Old Fashioned Oats > 1 sheet frozen puff pastry, thawed according to directions on box. > 4 teaspoons ground cinnamon > [http://static.sendgrid.com/uploads/UID_1140832_NL_23061038_ > b6293dd82dce4a4a91a3adf3a88f5f40/d783accf2b53ed6fa6625ea149a1ed98] > > > Directions > > > Position an oven rack in the center of the oven and preheat to 375 degrees > F. > In a large bowl, toss the sliced apples with the lemon juice until the > apples are thoroughly coated. > Add the black currants, 1/4 cup sugar, and the 2 tablespoons cold cubed > butter and toss well. Set aside. > Lightly dust the work surface with flour. Lay the puff pastry on top and > dust the rolling pin with additional flour. > Gently roll the puff pastry to 1/8-inch thickness. > Position the sheet of puff pastry on a parchment lined baking sheet. > Sprinkle the Quaker Old Fashioned Oats on half of the pastry to absorb the > juices > Spread the black currant & apple mixture on top of the oats leaving about > 1-inch of space along the side edges. > Sprinkle 2 teaspoons of cinnamon over the mix. > Brush some of the melted butter along the 1" edge of the pastry to help > seal. > Fold the other half over the mix and pinch to seal the edges together > tightly. > Brush the entire strudel with the melted butter. > Sprinkle with 2 teaspoons of cinnamon and remaining sugar. > Using a sharp knife, make 3 diagonal slits across the top of the strudel. > Bake for 40 minutes, rotating halfway through cooking, until the pastry is > puffed and golden brown. > > __________________ > nafex mailing list > nafex at lists.ibiblio.org > Northamerican Allied Fruit Experimenters > subscribe/unsubscribe|user config|list info: > http://lists.ibiblio.org/mailman/listinfo/nafex > -- Lori Rizzo, BSN MBA RN *Healthcare Quality & Performance Improvement* *Behavioral Dog Training & Counseling* *Heirloom & Unusual Vegetable Propagation* *Supporting Member New England Kayak Fishing (NEKF)* *Kingston, MA* *rizzolori1 at gmail.com * From ehilborn at mebtel.net Sat Sep 24 15:54:16 2016 From: ehilborn at mebtel.net (Elizabeth Hilborn) Date: Sat, 24 Sep 2016 15:54:16 -0400 Subject: [nafex] Care of D. kaki seedlings In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <5024395e-0562-14c1-28a5-7759273a8314@mebtel.net> I have some seedlings started from seeds saved from D. kaki fruits. I have learned on this list that growing these trees up to maturity is sometimes problematic. Does anyone have suggestions or advice to improve my chances of success? I was planning to overwinter in pots this year and to set out in permanent sites next spring with the intention of providing vigilant care. Thanks, Betsy Hilborn Zone 7a, NC From jwlehmantree at gmail.com Sat Sep 24 22:40:11 2016 From: jwlehmantree at gmail.com (Jerry Lehman) Date: Sat, 24 Sep 2016 22:40:11 -0400 Subject: [nafex] Care of D. kaki seedlings In-Reply-To: <5024395e-0562-14c1-28a5-7759273a8314@mebtel.net> References: <5024395e-0562-14c1-28a5-7759273a8314@mebtel.net> Message-ID: On 9/24/2016 3:54 PM, Elizabeth Hilborn wrote: > I have some seedlings started from seeds saved from D. kaki fruits. I > have learned on this list that growing these trees up to maturity is > sometimes problematic. > Does anyone have suggestions or advice to improve my chances of success? > > I was planning to overwinter in pots this year and to set out in > permanent sites next spring with the intention of providing vigilant > care. > > Thanks, > Betsy Hilborn > Zone 7a, NC Hello Betsy, You're in zone 7a which improves your chances but still not guaranteed. My zone 7 chart says 0 Fahrenheit average minimum low temperature. That's average which means occasionally it can get lower than that and based on my experience kaki winter damage begins at 0 and -10 normally spells death. Can you put it on the south side of your home, like only a few feet from your home. I have kept kaki several years 2 feet from the south side of my house and they fruited but when it got the -15 there wasn't enough protection. Jerry From ehilborn at mebtel.net Sun Sep 25 11:44:13 2016 From: ehilborn at mebtel.net (Elizabeth Hilborn) Date: Sun, 25 Sep 2016 11:44:13 -0400 Subject: [nafex] Care of D. kaki seedlings In-Reply-To: References: <5024395e-0562-14c1-28a5-7759273a8314@mebtel.net> Message-ID: Thank you. I am wondering if the seedlings are hybrids with D. virginiana as the leaves are not as thick and leathery as D. kaki, but wider than D. viginiana. I am hoping that if they are hybrids, it will confer additional winter hardiness. If they are hybrids, are there any special culture methods to follow? Betsy On 9/24/2016 10:40 PM, Jerry Lehman wrote: > On 9/24/2016 3:54 PM, Elizabeth Hilborn wrote: >> I have some seedlings started from seeds saved from D. kaki fruits. I >> have learned on this list that growing these trees up to maturity is >> sometimes problematic. >> Does anyone have suggestions or advice to improve my chances of success? >> >> I was planning to overwinter in pots this year and to set out in >> permanent sites next spring with the intention of providing vigilant >> care. >> >> Thanks, >> Betsy Hilborn >> Zone 7a, NC > Hello Betsy, > > You're in zone 7a which improves your chances but still not > guaranteed. My zone 7 chart says 0 Fahrenheit average minimum low > temperature. That's average which means occasionally it can get lower > than that and based on my experience kaki winter damage begins at 0 > and -10 normally spells death. Can you put it on the south side of > your home, like only a few feet from your home. I have kept kaki > several years 2 feet from the south side of my house and they fruited > but when it got the -15 there wasn't enough protection. > > Jerry > __________________ >