From tanisgrif at yahoo.com Wed Mar 2 12:50:12 2016 From: tanisgrif at yahoo.com (tanis grif) Date: Wed, 2 Mar 2016 17:50:12 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [nafex] requesting parafilm References: <1676387967.1922135.1456941012946.JavaMail.yahoo.ref@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <1676387967.1922135.1456941012946.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> Well my apple scionwood has been collected and much of it is rather thin. It's too delicate for my favorite graft wrap-- rubber electrician's splicing tape-- but parafilm works great on the thin scionwood. Can anyone spare a couple feet of parafilm ("M" I think, but haven't used it in a couple years.) Tanis Cuff, sWI, snowdrop bulbs up and one has a flower already, under yesterday's snowfall. From list at ginda.us Wed Mar 2 19:43:37 2016 From: list at ginda.us (Ginda Fisher) Date: Wed, 2 Mar 2016 19:43:37 -0500 Subject: [nafex] requesting parafilm In-Reply-To: <1676387967.1922135.1456941012946.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> References: <1676387967.1922135.1456941012946.JavaMail.yahoo.ref@mail.yahoo.com> <1676387967.1922135.1456941012946.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <0F5E0498-B990-46AA-BD9E-373DCCB609C1@ginda.us> On Mar 2, 2016, at 12:50 PM, tanis grif wrote: > Well my apple scionwood has been collected and much of it is rather thin. It's too delicate for my favorite graft wrap-- rubber electrician's splicing tape-- but parafilm works great on the thin scionwood. Can anyone spare a couple feet of parafilm ("M" I think, but haven't used it in a couple years.) > > Tanis Cuff, sWI, snowdrop bulbs up and one has a flower already, under yesterday's snowfall. > __________________ > nafex mailing list > nafex at lists.ibiblio.org > Northamerican Allied Fruit Experimenters > subscribe/unsubscribe|user config|list info: > http://lists.ibiblio.org/mailman/listinfo/nafex I can send you some. What's your address? Is it okay to just fold it and put it in an ordinary envelope? From sam.brungardt at state.mn.us Wed Mar 9 12:43:20 2016 From: sam.brungardt at state.mn.us (Brungardt, Sam (MPCA)) Date: Wed, 9 Mar 2016 17:43:20 +0000 Subject: [nafex] NMSU to host jujube fruit tree growing habits, pruning workshop in Los Lunas on March 22 Message-ID: <1268E36B214F7D4F968B0285BF5CF3E40582830C@055-CH1MPN1-031.055d.mgd.msft.net> NMSU to host jujube fruit tree growing habits, pruning workshop in Los Lunas New Mexico State University NewsCenter LOS LUNAS - Interest in raising the jujube as an alternative fruit crop continues to grow among New Mexicans because of crop reliability and its ability ... From sam.brungardt at state.mn.us Tue Mar 15 15:34:02 2016 From: sam.brungardt at state.mn.us (Brungardt, Sam (MPCA)) Date: Tue, 15 Mar 2016 19:34:02 +0000 Subject: [nafex] Ancient Fruit Cornelian Cherry Warrants a Comeback (ABC News) Message-ID: <1268E36B214F7D4F968B0285BF5CF3E4058332AE@055-CH1MPN1-032.055d.mgd.msft.net> Chron.com Ancient Fruit Cornelian Cherry Warrants a Comeback ABC News Summer and fall also bring fruits, which, unknown to most people, are edible. The fruits - oval, fire-engine red, with a single stone - look a lot like ... From fuwafuwausagi at muchomail.com Tue Mar 15 16:26:48 2016 From: fuwafuwausagi at muchomail.com (fuwa fuwa usagi) Date: Tue, 15 Mar 2016 13:26:48 -0700 Subject: [nafex] Willamette nurseries Message-ID: <20160315132648.5CE10A5E@m0087793.ppops.net> Gang, I just thought I would mention I once again ordered some root stocks from Willamette nurseries and once again received excellent stock precisely delivered on the agreed ship date. They are very nice rootstocks. This is the 3rd time I have ordered from them and each time I have been very happy. I also ordered from Cummins once and was very happy also. I have had very mixed results with other suppliers. Of special note, Willamette has exceptional customer service. The minimums from Willamette is 50-100 rootstocks of a single variety. http://www.willamettenurseries.com/ And it bears mentioning I have no relationship with this or any supplier other than as a customer. Cheers, the fluffy bunny _____________________________________________________________ The Free Email with so much more! =====> http://www.MuchoMail.com <===== From lindakruhmin at gmail.com Tue Mar 15 16:28:14 2016 From: lindakruhmin at gmail.com (Linda Kruhmin) Date: Tue, 15 Mar 2016 15:28:14 -0500 Subject: [nafex] Ancient Fruit Cornelian Cherry Warrants a Comeback (ABC News) In-Reply-To: <1268E36B214F7D4F968B0285BF5CF3E4058332AE@055-CH1MPN1-032.055d.mgd.msft.net> References: <1268E36B214F7D4F968B0285BF5CF3E4058332AE@055-CH1MPN1-032.055d.mgd.msft.net> Message-ID: I've had a single cornus mas (Cornelian Cherry) tree for 12 years here in Chicago. It grew 14' high, 12'wide, a multi-stemmed beauty which the smalls birds loved, and last year yielded 5 gallons of berries, plenty for sharing. (It unfortunately was tipped over in one of our high wind storms...) But the jams made from this fruit were unusual and delicious - I've made plain, with rosemary, with ginger and black pepper, and with cardamon. I highly recommend this fruit tree for smaller urban yards! Linda On Tue, Mar 15, 2016 at 2:34 PM, Brungardt, Sam (MPCA) < sam.brungardt at state.mn.us> wrote: > > > Chron.com > > Ancient Fruit Cornelian Cherry Warrants a Comeback < > https://www.google.com/url?rct=j&sa=t&url=http://abcnews.go.com/Health/wireStory/ancient-fruit-cornelian-cherry-warrants-comeback-37654386&ct=ga&cd=CAEYACoUMTIxOTA0OTI2NDc4MTA4MTg1ODgyGmRmZTAxMjc3N2JlODQ1YTY6Y29tOmVuOlVT&usg=AFQjCNENTrW0QoWVJWcp0fOwMZT5cl6Fnw > > > ABC News > Summer and fall also bring fruits, which, unknown to most people, are > edible. The fruits - oval, fire-engine red, with a single stone - look a > lot like ... > > > > __________________ > nafex mailing list > nafex at lists.ibiblio.org > Northamerican Allied Fruit Experimenters > subscribe/unsubscribe|user config|list info: > http://lists.ibiblio.org/mailman/listinfo/nafex > From lpittman at murraystate.edu Tue Mar 15 17:35:43 2016 From: lpittman at murraystate.edu (Dr. Lucky Pittman) Date: Tue, 15 Mar 2016 16:35:43 -0500 Subject: [nafex] Ancient Fruit Cornelian Cherry Warrants a Comeback (ABC News) In-Reply-To: <1268E36B214F7D4F968B0285BF5CF3E4058332AE@055-CH1MPN1-032.055d.mgd.msft.net> References: <1268E36B214F7D4F968B0285BF5CF3E4058332AE@055-CH1MPN1-032.055d.mgd.msft.net> Message-ID: <002701d17f02$a159bcd0$e40d3670$@murraystate.edu> C.mas in full bloom here in KY right now. Saw a post on Facebook one night last week... nice photo, with caption "Cornus mas fruit" , and underneath, the 'see translation hypertext'... clicked on it... "Cornus more fruit"... from Spanish.... Duh. I knew 'mas' meant 'more' in el Espanol... but I'm not certain that that is where that specific epithet came from. Lucky Pittman Hopkinsville, KY -----Original Message----- From: nafex [mailto:nafex-bounces at lists.ibiblio.org] On Behalf Of Brungardt, Sam (MPCA) Sent: Tuesday, March 15, 2016 2:34 PM To: mailing list at ibiblio - Northamerican Allied Fruit Experimenters Subject: [nafex] Ancient Fruit Cornelian Cherry Warrants a Comeback (ABC News) Chron.com Ancient Fruit Cornelian Cherry Warrants a Comeback ABC News Summer and fall also bring fruits, which, unknown to most people, are edible. The fruits - oval, fire-engine red, with a single stone - look a lot like ... __________________ nafex mailing list nafex at lists.ibiblio.org Northamerican Allied Fruit Experimenters subscribe/unsubscribe|user config|list info: http://lists.ibiblio.org/mailman/listinfo/nafex From fuwafuwausagi at muchomail.com Tue Mar 15 18:13:28 2016 From: fuwafuwausagi at muchomail.com (fuwa fuwa usagi) Date: Tue, 15 Mar 2016 15:13:28 -0700 Subject: [nafex] Horizontal cordon espalier vs New Tall Spindle Message-ID: <20160315151328.5CE092DC@m0087792.ppops.net> Preface: So the fluffy one is strongly kicking the tires on establishing a small commercial orchard. As a result I likely shall be inundating the list with asinine questions that only a rabbit who does not know his fluffy little tail for a hole in the ground can do. Question #1: Does anyone have any studies that show the yield for espalier orchard systems, I am thinking in particular about 3 to 4 tier horizontal cordons (i.e. 6-8 arms)? In general my reference point are apple yields. Additional information related to the question: I have been looking strongly at the New Tall Spindle system for apples and really like it, but I am deeply concerned about the ultimate height and one of goals is to have a truly pedestrian orchard (for one I am deathly afraid of height, I get on a kitchen chair and I get nervous, couple that with age and deteriorating knees, it seems to me pedestrian is the way to go. Also on the limited acreage I am considering I don?t think I could manage the cost of a self-steer platform). Hence I started thinking of horizontal espalier. Since I will be managing the pruning myself, the skill factor is not as much of a concern as it typically would be in an orchard. My instincts tell me this is a bad idea, as the French would not have started looking at fruiting walls etc if the yields were acceptable. But I am very open to people's experience. Kindest regards to all, The fluffy one _____________________________________________________________ The Free Email with so much more! =====> http://www.MuchoMail.com <===== From ehilborn at mebtel.net Tue Mar 15 19:21:30 2016 From: ehilborn at mebtel.net (Elizabeth Hilborn) Date: Tue, 15 Mar 2016 19:21:30 -0400 Subject: [nafex] Ancient Fruit Cornelian Cherry Warrants a Comeback (ABC News) In-Reply-To: <002701d17f02$a159bcd0$e40d3670$@murraystate.edu> References: <1268E36B214F7D4F968B0285BF5CF3E4058332AE@055-CH1MPN1-032.055d.mgd.msft.net> <002701d17f02$a159bcd0$e40d3670$@murraystate.edu> Message-ID: <56E898FA.806@mebtel.net> Mas fruit. Sounds like my kind of tree! I am eagerly anticipating the arrival of an "Elegant' and a "Red Dawn". I finally found/freed up two proximate partially shaded site that I think will suit these trees. Wish me luck! The growing conditions are getting so unpredictable here: bats flying around on Christmas eve, my first Swallowtail butterfly on March 8, and my Keiffer pear flowering now! Betsy Hilborn 7a NC On 3/15/2016 5:35 PM, Dr. Lucky Pittman wrote: > C.mas in full bloom here in KY right now. > > Saw a post on Facebook one night last week... nice photo, with caption > "Cornus mas fruit" , and underneath, the 'see translation hypertext'... > clicked on it... "Cornus more fruit"... from Spanish.... > Duh. I knew 'mas' meant 'more' in el Espanol... but I'm not certain that > that is where that specific epithet came from. > > Lucky Pittman > Hopkinsville, KY > > -----Original Message----- > From: nafex [mailto:nafex-bounces at lists.ibiblio.org] On Behalf Of Brungardt, > Sam (MPCA) > Sent: Tuesday, March 15, 2016 2:34 PM > To: mailing list at ibiblio - Northamerican Allied Fruit Experimenters > Subject: [nafex] Ancient Fruit Cornelian Cherry Warrants a Comeback (ABC > News) > > > > Chron.com > > Ancient Fruit Cornelian Cherry Warrants a Comeback > Story/ancient-fruit-cornelian-cherry-warrants-comeback-37654386&ct=ga&cd=CAE > YACoUMTIxOTA0OTI2NDc4MTA4MTg1ODgyGmRmZTAxMjc3N2JlODQ1YTY6Y29tOmVuOlVT&usg=AF > QjCNENTrW0QoWVJWcp0fOwMZT5cl6Fnw> > ABC News > Summer and fall also bring fruits, which, unknown to most people, are > edible. The fruits - oval, fire-engine red, with a single stone - look a lot > like ... > > > From lpittman at murraystate.edu Tue Mar 15 22:56:32 2016 From: lpittman at murraystate.edu (Louis Pittman) Date: Tue, 15 Mar 2016 21:56:32 -0500 Subject: [nafex] Ancient Fruit Cornelian Cherry Warrants a Comeback (ABC News) In-Reply-To: <56E898FA.806@mebtel.net> References: <1268E36B214F7D4F968B0285BF5CF3E4058332AE@055-CH1MPN1-032.055d.mgd.msft.net> <002701d17f02$a159bcd0$e40d3670$@murraystate.edu> <56E898FA.806@mebtel.net> Message-ID: Betsy, Three seedling (I presume) C.mas trees along the 'riverwalk' here in the metropolis of Hopkinsville, KY. I'm sure there's not a half-dozen folks in town here that even know what they are, much less that the fruits are edible. Rob Hamilton was by here once, back around 2001, when they were fruiting, I think... I've shared fruits with coworkers/friends. Not very well received. As you may know, some have likened them to 'cranberry-flavored cardboard... with astringency'. However, I do like them - even before they're soft and fully ripened. Many of my pears are breaking dormancy now, as well.... LLP On Tue, Mar 15, 2016 at 6:21 PM, Elizabeth Hilborn wrote: > Mas fruit. Sounds like my kind of tree! > > I am eagerly anticipating the arrival of an "Elegant' and a "Red Dawn". I > finally found/freed up two proximate partially shaded site that I think > will suit these trees. > > Wish me luck! The growing conditions are getting so unpredictable here: > bats flying around on Christmas eve, my first Swallowtail butterfly on > March 8, and my Keiffer pear flowering now! > > Betsy Hilborn > 7a NC > > > On 3/15/2016 5:35 PM, Dr. Lucky Pittman wrote: > >> C.mas in full bloom here in KY right now. >> >> Saw a post on Facebook one night last week... nice photo, with caption >> "Cornus mas fruit" , and underneath, the 'see translation hypertext'... >> clicked on it... "Cornus more fruit"... from Spanish.... >> Duh. I knew 'mas' meant 'more' in el Espanol... but I'm not certain that >> that is where that specific epithet came from. >> >> Lucky Pittman >> Hopkinsville, KY >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: nafex [mailto:nafex-bounces at lists.ibiblio.org] On Behalf Of >> Brungardt, >> Sam (MPCA) >> Sent: Tuesday, March 15, 2016 2:34 PM >> To: mailing list at ibiblio - Northamerican Allied Fruit Experimenters >> Subject: [nafex] Ancient Fruit Cornelian Cherry Warrants a Comeback (ABC >> News) >> >> >> >> Chron.com >> >> Ancient Fruit Cornelian Cherry Warrants a Comeback >> < >> https://www.google.com/url?rct=j&sa=t&url=http://abcnews.go.com/Health/wire >> >> Story/ancient-fruit-cornelian-cherry-warrants-comeback-37654386&ct=ga&cd=CAE >> >> YACoUMTIxOTA0OTI2NDc4MTA4MTg1ODgyGmRmZTAxMjc3N2JlODQ1YTY6Y29tOmVuOlVT&usg=AF >> QjCNENTrW0QoWVJWcp0fOwMZT5cl6Fnw> >> ABC News >> Summer and fall also bring fruits, which, unknown to most people, are >> edible. The fruits - oval, fire-engine red, with a single stone - look a >> lot >> like ... >> >> >> >> > __________________ > nafex mailing list > nafex at lists.ibiblio.org > Northamerican Allied Fruit Experimenters > subscribe/unsubscribe|user config|list info: > http://lists.ibiblio.org/mailman/listinfo/nafex > From list at ginda.us Wed Mar 16 00:57:10 2016 From: list at ginda.us (Ginda Fisher) Date: Wed, 16 Mar 2016 00:57:10 -0400 Subject: [nafex] Ancient Fruit Cornelian Cherry Warrants a Comeback (ABC News) In-Reply-To: <002701d17f02$a159bcd0$e40d3670$@murraystate.edu> References: <1268E36B214F7D4F968B0285BF5CF3E4058332AE@055-CH1MPN1-032.055d.mgd.msft.net> <002701d17f02$a159bcd0$e40d3670$@murraystate.edu> Message-ID: <9F837515-805D-4D1E-A3A0-CFA949810DEE@ginda.us> I read, probably on this list, that "mas" is for "masculine, since the young tree only produces masculine blooms. Ginda Fisher On Mar 15, 2016, at 5:35 PM, Dr. Lucky Pittman wrote: > C.mas in full bloom here in KY right now. > > Saw a post on Facebook one night last week... nice photo, with caption > "Cornus mas fruit" , and underneath, the 'see translation hypertext'... > clicked on it... "Cornus more fruit"... from Spanish.... > Duh. I knew 'mas' meant 'more' in el Espanol... but I'm not certain that > that is where that specific epithet came from. > > Lucky Pittman > Hopkinsville, KY > > -----Original Message----- > From: nafex [mailto:nafex-bounces at lists.ibiblio.org] On Behalf Of Brungardt, > Sam (MPCA) > Sent: Tuesday, March 15, 2016 2:34 PM > To: mailing list at ibiblio - Northamerican Allied Fruit Experimenters > Subject: [nafex] Ancient Fruit Cornelian Cherry Warrants a Comeback (ABC > News) > > > > Chron.com > > Ancient Fruit Cornelian Cherry Warrants a Comeback > Story/ancient-fruit-cornelian-cherry-warrants-comeback-37654386&ct=ga&cd=CAE > YACoUMTIxOTA0OTI2NDc4MTA4MTg1ODgyGmRmZTAxMjc3N2JlODQ1YTY6Y29tOmVuOlVT&usg=AF > QjCNENTrW0QoWVJWcp0fOwMZT5cl6Fnw> > ABC News > Summer and fall also bring fruits, which, unknown to most people, are > edible. The fruits - oval, fire-engine red, with a single stone - look a lot > like ... > > > > __________________ > nafex mailing list > nafex at lists.ibiblio.org > Northamerican Allied Fruit Experimenters subscribe/unsubscribe|user > config|list info: > http://lists.ibiblio.org/mailman/listinfo/nafex > > __________________ > nafex mailing list > nafex at lists.ibiblio.org > Northamerican Allied Fruit Experimenters > subscribe/unsubscribe|user config|list info: > http://lists.ibiblio.org/mailman/listinfo/nafex From sam.brungardt at state.mn.us Wed Mar 16 13:32:41 2016 From: sam.brungardt at state.mn.us (Brungardt, Sam (MPCA)) Date: Wed, 16 Mar 2016 17:32:41 +0000 Subject: [nafex] Recipes: Fruit Shrubs Message-ID: <1268E36B214F7D4F968B0285BF5CF3E4058375C6@055-CH1MPN1-032.055d.mgd.msft.net> Recipes: Fruit Shrubs Dallas Morning News Blackberry, strawberry, pear - these fruit shrubs are an impressive drink that you'll be excited to share with your friends. The secrets behind a winning shrub recipe from Dallas experts - Dallas Morning News From leeareich at gmail.com Wed Mar 16 15:58:01 2016 From: leeareich at gmail.com (Lee Reich) Date: Wed, 16 Mar 2016 15:58:01 -0400 Subject: [nafex] Ancient Fruit Cornelian Cherry Warrants a Comeback (ABC News) In-Reply-To: <9F837515-805D-4D1E-A3A0-CFA949810DEE@ginda.us> References: <1268E36B214F7D4F968B0285BF5CF3E4058332AE@055-CH1MPN1-032.055d.mgd.msft.net> <002701d17f02$a159bcd0$e40d3670$@murraystate.edu> <9F837515-805D-4D1E-A3A0-CFA949810DEE@ginda.us> Message-ID: <14E862EA-1CAA-465E-9BE4-85AC1D1463E5@leereich.com> I devote a whole chapter to Cornus mas in my book Uncommon Fruits for Every Garden. One website says that ?mas? means is a Latin prefix meaning ?strong?, referring to the wood, which you quickly find out it is, when pruning. That same site states that ?cornelian? comes from ?cornel? which comes from ?cornu?, describing hard and tough objects, such as the horn of a goat. Researching for my book, however, I found that ?cornelian? refers to the fruits similatrity in color to cornelian (or carnelian) quartz. Cornelian quartz ?has a waxy luster and a deep red, reddish white, of flesh red (?carnis' is Latin for flesh color) color?. Perhaps the ?mas? meaning is also wrong; perhaps I?m wrong about Cornus meaning. Lee Reich, PhD Come visit my farmden at http://www.leereich.com/blog http://leereich.com/ Books by Lee Reich: A Northeast Gardener's Year The Pruning Book Weedless Gardening Uncommon Fruits for Every Garden Landscaping with Fruit Grow Fruit Naturally > On Mar 16, 2016, at 12:57 AM, Ginda Fisher wrote: > > I read, probably on this list, that "mas" is for "masculine, since the young tree only produces masculine blooms. > > Ginda Fisher > > On Mar 15, 2016, at 5:35 PM, Dr. Lucky Pittman wrote: > >> C.mas in full bloom here in KY right now. >> >> Saw a post on Facebook one night last week... nice photo, with caption >> "Cornus mas fruit" , and underneath, the 'see translation hypertext'... >> clicked on it... "Cornus more fruit"... from Spanish.... >> Duh. I knew 'mas' meant 'more' in el Espanol... but I'm not certain that >> that is where that specific epithet came from. >> >> Lucky Pittman >> Hopkinsville, KY >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: nafex [mailto:nafex-bounces at lists.ibiblio.org] On Behalf Of Brungardt, >> Sam (MPCA) >> Sent: Tuesday, March 15, 2016 2:34 PM >> To: mailing list at ibiblio - Northamerican Allied Fruit Experimenters >> Subject: [nafex] Ancient Fruit Cornelian Cherry Warrants a Comeback (ABC >> News) >> >> >> >> Chron.com >> >> Ancient Fruit Cornelian Cherry Warrants a Comeback >> > Story/ancient-fruit-cornelian-cherry-warrants-comeback-37654386&ct=ga&cd=CAE >> YACoUMTIxOTA0OTI2NDc4MTA4MTg1ODgyGmRmZTAxMjc3N2JlODQ1YTY6Y29tOmVuOlVT&usg=AF >> QjCNENTrW0QoWVJWcp0fOwMZT5cl6Fnw> >> ABC News >> Summer and fall also bring fruits, which, unknown to most people, are >> edible. The fruits - oval, fire-engine red, with a single stone - look a lot >> like ... >> >> >> >> __________________ >> nafex mailing list >> nafex at lists.ibiblio.org >> Northamerican Allied Fruit Experimenters subscribe/unsubscribe|user >> config|list info: >> http://lists.ibiblio.org/mailman/listinfo/nafex >> >> __________________ >> nafex mailing list >> nafex at lists.ibiblio.org >> Northamerican Allied Fruit Experimenters >> subscribe/unsubscribe|user config|list info: >> http://lists.ibiblio.org/mailman/listinfo/nafex > > __________________ > nafex mailing list > nafex at lists.ibiblio.org > Northamerican Allied Fruit Experimenters > subscribe/unsubscribe|user config|list info: > http://lists.ibiblio.org/mailman/listinfo/nafex From lostman_amiga at yahoo.com Wed Mar 16 16:09:46 2016 From: lostman_amiga at yahoo.com (rob hamilton) Date: Wed, 16 Mar 2016 20:09:46 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [nafex] Ancient Fruit Cornelian Cherry Warrants a Comeback (ABC News) In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <1492248998.1398223.1458158986787.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> Yes, remember eating them Lucky. "cranberry-flavored cardboard" is an unfair description in my opinion.I have tasted an number of varieties after that (mostly for One Green World). Though I would not eat them just out of hand, I would like their flavor as a jam or? candied some how. Also, last year we had a presentation from a guy? "little John" who makes products from the fruits, he in now or edible dogwood interest group chair!! Robert?-------------------------------------------- Now Zone 8a!! Atlanta, GA Atlanta Fruits Club ?? ?? http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Atlanta_Fruits/ North American Fruit Explorers (NAFEX) ?? www.NAFEX.org Southern Fruit Fellowship (SFF)??? http://southernfruitfellowship.wordpress.com/ California Rare Fruit Growers ?? www.crfg.org My New Blog!! http://atlantafruitman.wordpress.com/ On Tuesday, March 15, 2016 10:56 PM, Louis Pittman wrote: Betsy, Three seedling (I presume) C.mas trees along the 'riverwalk' here in the metropolis of Hopkinsville, KY.? I'm sure there's not a half-dozen folks in town here that even know what they are, much less that the fruits are edible. Rob Hamilton was by here once, back around 2001, when they were fruiting, I think... I've shared fruits with coworkers/friends.? Not very well received. As you may know, some have likened them to 'cranberry-flavored cardboard... with astringency'.? However, I do like them - even before they're soft and fully ripened. Many of my pears are breaking dormancy now, as well.... LLP On Tue, Mar 15, 2016 at 6:21 PM, Elizabeth Hilborn wrote: > Mas fruit. Sounds like my kind of tree! > > I am eagerly anticipating the arrival of an "Elegant' and a "Red Dawn". I > finally found/freed up two proximate partially shaded site that I think > will suit these trees. > > Wish me luck! The growing conditions are getting so unpredictable here: > bats flying around on Christmas eve, my first Swallowtail butterfly on > March 8, and my Keiffer pear flowering now! > > Betsy Hilborn > 7a NC > > > On 3/15/2016 5:35 PM, Dr. Lucky Pittman wrote: > >> C.mas in full bloom here in KY right now. >> >> Saw a post on Facebook one night last week... nice photo, with caption >> "Cornus mas fruit" , and underneath, the 'see translation hypertext'... >> clicked on it... "Cornus more fruit"... from Spanish.... >> Duh.? I knew 'mas' meant 'more' in el Espanol... but I'm not certain that >> that? is where that specific epithet came from. >> >> Lucky Pittman >> Hopkinsville, KY >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: nafex [mailto:nafex-bounces at lists.ibiblio.org] On Behalf Of >> Brungardt, >> Sam (MPCA) >> Sent: Tuesday, March 15, 2016 2:34 PM >> To: mailing list at ibiblio - Northamerican Allied Fruit Experimenters >> Subject: [nafex] Ancient Fruit Cornelian Cherry Warrants a Comeback (ABC >> News) >> >> >> >> Chron.com >> >> Ancient Fruit Cornelian Cherry Warrants a Comeback >> < >> https://www.google.com/url?rct=j&sa=t&url=http://abcnews.go.com/Health/wire >> >> Story/ancient-fruit-cornelian-cherry-warrants-comeback-37654386&ct=ga&cd=CAE >> >> YACoUMTIxOTA0OTI2NDc4MTA4MTg1ODgyGmRmZTAxMjc3N2JlODQ1YTY6Y29tOmVuOlVT&usg=AF >> QjCNENTrW0QoWVJWcp0fOwMZT5cl6Fnw> >> ABC News >> Summer and fall also bring fruits, which, unknown to most people, are >> edible. The fruits - oval, fire-engine red, with a single stone - look a >> lot >> like ... >> >> >> >> > __________________ > nafex mailing list > nafex at lists.ibiblio.org > Northamerican Allied Fruit Experimenters > subscribe/unsubscribe|user config|list info: > http://lists.ibiblio.org/mailman/listinfo/nafex > __________________ nafex mailing list nafex at lists.ibiblio.org Northamerican Allied Fruit Experimenters subscribe/unsubscribe|user config|list info: http://lists.ibiblio.org/mailman/listinfo/nafex From ramoyer at gmail.com Wed Mar 16 21:57:01 2016 From: ramoyer at gmail.com (Richard Moyer) Date: Wed, 16 Mar 2016 21:57:01 -0400 Subject: [nafex] Cornelian Cherry Message-ID: Lee, Thanks for your excellent book, including this fruit. While giving a talk last weekend on 'soft mast' fruits for wildlife, I included this one. Several folks had not seen them before, but were taken with the fruit color, with the early bloom for pollinators, with the notion of an edible dogwood, etc. I use a pic of three plates of fruit from the same tree: one harvested that day, the second held a day at room temp, and the third held two days at room temp. The color deepens dramatically each day. As does the flavor intensity, and diminution of 'off' flavors. Been a while since I shared this: My first encounter with this fruit, at a neighbors house: Knock-knock: "We live the next block over, noticed your tree while walking, could we taste some of the fruit?" ---'No, it's poisonous, I don't want anyone to get hurt.' "But I'm positive with the bark, opposite leaves, the fruit, that it's Cornus mas, an edible fruit, people just don't eat it around here." ---'We've always been told it's poisonous, so we've never tried it, or allowed anyone else to.' "I have a great book which devotes a whole chapter to this fruit. Sometimes it's called Cornelian cherry, though it's not really a cherry. Could I taste a few of them?" ---(Reluctantly): 'Well, you can taste a couple, but I won't let your daughter eat any, don't want her to be poisoned.' We both lived to tell about it, she begging for one on the way home. In time our own trees bore. Since then, have noted multiple public locations with trees bearing well. Such as the ALS building at Oregon State U, in Corvallis. Our favorite use has been running very ripe fruit through a food mill, for a fresh dessert something like cranberry relish. And a jam with the same goes well on toast. Richard Moyer, SW VA Nanking Cherries blooming well this week, first peach blossoms yesterday, cattle grazing grass three weeks earlier than usual... On Wed, Mar 16, 2016 at 3:58 PM, wrote: > Send nafex mailing list submissions to > nafex at lists.ibiblio.org > > To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit > http://lists.ibiblio.org/mailman/listinfo/nafex > or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to > nafex-request at lists.ibiblio.org > > You can reach the person managing the list at > nafex-owner at lists.ibiblio.org > > When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific > than "Re: Contents of nafex digest..." > > > Today's Topics: > > 1. Re: Ancient Fruit Cornelian Cherry Warrants a Comeback (ABC > News) (Lee Reich) > > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > > Message: 1 > Date: Wed, 16 Mar 2016 15:58:01 -0400 > From: Lee Reich > To: mailing list at ibiblio - Northamerican Allied Fruit Experimenters > > Subject: Re: [nafex] Ancient Fruit Cornelian Cherry Warrants a > Comeback (ABC News) > Message-ID: <14E862EA-1CAA-465E-9BE4-85AC1D1463E5 at leereich.com> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 > > I devote a whole chapter to Cornus mas in my book Uncommon Fruits for > Every Garden. One website says that ?mas? means is a Latin prefix meaning > ?strong?, referring to the wood, which you quickly find out it is, when > pruning. > > That same site states that ?cornelian? comes from ?cornel? which comes > from ?cornu?, describing hard and tough objects, such as the horn of a > goat. Researching for my book, however, I found that ?cornelian? refers to > the fruits similatrity in color to cornelian (or carnelian) quartz. > Cornelian quartz ?has a waxy luster and a deep red, reddish white, of flesh > red (?carnis' is Latin for flesh color) color?. Perhaps the ?mas? meaning > is also wrong; perhaps I?m wrong about Cornus meaning. > > Lee Reich, PhD > Come visit my farmden at http://www.leereich.com/blog < > http://www.leereich.com/blog> > http://leereich.com/ > > Books by Lee Reich: > A Northeast Gardener's Year > The Pruning Book > Weedless Gardening > Uncommon Fruits for Every Garden > Landscaping with Fruit > Grow Fruit Naturally > > > On Mar 16, 2016, at 12:57 AM, Ginda Fisher wrote: > > > > I read, probably on this list, that "mas" is for "masculine, since the > young tree only produces masculine blooms. > > > > Ginda Fisher > > > > On Mar 15, 2016, at 5:35 PM, Dr. Lucky Pittman wrote: > > > >> C.mas in full bloom here in KY right now. > >> > >> Saw a post on Facebook one night last week... nice photo, with caption > >> "Cornus mas fruit" , and underneath, the 'see translation hypertext'... > >> clicked on it... "Cornus more fruit"... from Spanish.... > >> Duh. I knew 'mas' meant 'more' in el Espanol... but I'm not certain > that > >> that is where that specific epithet came from. > >> > >> Lucky Pittman > >> Hopkinsville, KY > >> > >> -----Original Message----- > >> From: nafex [mailto:nafex-bounces at lists.ibiblio.org] On Behalf Of > Brungardt, > >> Sam (MPCA) > >> Sent: Tuesday, March 15, 2016 2:34 PM > >> To: mailing list at ibiblio - Northamerican Allied Fruit Experimenters > >> Subject: [nafex] Ancient Fruit Cornelian Cherry Warrants a Comeback (ABC > >> News) > >> > >> > >> > >> Chron.com > >> > >> Ancient Fruit Cornelian Cherry Warrants a Comeback > >> < > https://www.google.com/url?rct=j&sa=t&url=http://abcnews.go.com/Health/wire > >> > Story/ancient-fruit-cornelian-cherry-warrants-comeback-37654386&ct=ga&cd=CAE > >> > YACoUMTIxOTA0OTI2NDc4MTA4MTg1ODgyGmRmZTAxMjc3N2JlODQ1YTY6Y29tOmVuOlVT&usg=AF > >> QjCNENTrW0QoWVJWcp0fOwMZT5cl6Fnw> > >> ABC News > >> Summer and fall also bring fruits, which, unknown to most people, are > >> edible. The fruits - oval, fire-engine red, with a single stone - look > a lot > >> like ... > >> > >> > >> > >> __________________ > >> nafex mailing list > >> nafex at lists.ibiblio.org > >> Northamerican Allied Fruit Experimenters subscribe/unsubscribe|user > >> config|list info: > >> http://lists.ibiblio.org/mailman/listinfo/nafex > >> > >> __________________ > >> nafex mailing list > >> nafex at lists.ibiblio.org > >> Northamerican Allied Fruit Experimenters > >> subscribe/unsubscribe|user config|list info: > >> http://lists.ibiblio.org/mailman/listinfo/nafex > > > > __________________ > > nafex mailing list > > nafex at lists.ibiblio.org > > Northamerican Allied Fruit Experimenters > > subscribe/unsubscribe|user config|list info: > > http://lists.ibiblio.org/mailman/listinfo/nafex > > > > ------------------------------ > > Subject: Digest Footer > > __________________ > nafex mailing list > nafex at lists.ibiblio.org > Northamerican Allied Fruit Experimenters > subscribe/unsubscribe|user config|list info: > http://lists.ibiblio.org/mailman/listinfo/nafex > > ------------------------------ > > End of nafex Digest, Vol 173, Issue 8 > ************************************* > From leeareich at gmail.com Thu Mar 17 08:26:54 2016 From: leeareich at gmail.com (Lee Reich) Date: Thu, 17 Mar 2016 08:26:54 -0400 Subject: [nafex] Cornelian Cherry In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Hi Richard, Nice story. I figure that many people consider any red fruit that they don?t know to be poisonous. They?re red to entice us, perhaps the thinking goes, sort of like the big, red, juicy apple of the Garden of Eden. Lee Lee Reich, PhD Come visit my farmden at http://www.leereich.com/blog http://leereich.com/ Books by Lee Reich: A Northeast Gardener's Year The Pruning Book Weedless Gardening Uncommon Fruits for Every Garden Landscaping with Fruit Grow Fruit Naturally > On Mar 16, 2016, at 9:57 PM, Richard Moyer wrote: > > Lee, > Thanks for your excellent book, including this fruit. While giving a talk > last weekend on 'soft mast' fruits for wildlife, I included this one. > Several folks had not seen them before, but were taken with the fruit > color, with the early bloom for pollinators, with the notion of an edible > dogwood, etc. > > I use a pic of three plates of fruit from the same tree: one harvested > that day, the second held a day at room temp, and the third held two days > at room temp. The color deepens dramatically each day. As does the flavor > intensity, and diminution of 'off' flavors. > > Been a while since I shared this: > My first encounter with this fruit, at a neighbors house: > Knock-knock: "We live the next block over, noticed your tree while > walking, could we taste some of the fruit?" > ---'No, it's poisonous, I don't want anyone to get hurt.' > "But I'm positive with the bark, opposite leaves, the fruit, that it's > Cornus mas, an edible fruit, people just don't eat it around here." > ---'We've always been told it's poisonous, so we've never tried it, or > allowed anyone else to.' > "I have a great book which devotes a whole chapter to this fruit. > Sometimes it's called Cornelian cherry, though it's not really a cherry. > Could I taste a few of them?" > ---(Reluctantly): 'Well, you can taste a couple, but I won't let your > daughter eat any, don't want her to be poisoned.' > > We both lived to tell about it, she begging for one on the way home. In > time our own trees bore. > > Since then, have noted multiple public locations with trees bearing well. > Such as the ALS building at Oregon State U, in Corvallis. > > Our favorite use has been running very ripe fruit through a food mill, for > a fresh dessert something like cranberry relish. And a jam with the same > goes well on toast. > > Richard Moyer, SW VA > Nanking Cherries blooming well this week, first peach blossoms yesterday, > cattle grazing grass three weeks earlier than usual... > > > > On Wed, Mar 16, 2016 at 3:58 PM, wrote: > >> Send nafex mailing list submissions to >> nafex at lists.ibiblio.org >> >> To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit >> http://lists.ibiblio.org/mailman/listinfo/nafex >> or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to >> nafex-request at lists.ibiblio.org >> >> You can reach the person managing the list at >> nafex-owner at lists.ibiblio.org >> >> When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific >> than "Re: Contents of nafex digest..." >> >> >> Today's Topics: >> >> 1. Re: Ancient Fruit Cornelian Cherry Warrants a Comeback (ABC >> News) (Lee Reich) >> >> >> ---------------------------------------------------------------------- >> >> Message: 1 >> Date: Wed, 16 Mar 2016 15:58:01 -0400 >> From: Lee Reich >> To: mailing list at ibiblio - Northamerican Allied Fruit Experimenters >> >> Subject: Re: [nafex] Ancient Fruit Cornelian Cherry Warrants a >> Comeback (ABC News) >> Message-ID: <14E862EA-1CAA-465E-9BE4-85AC1D1463E5 at leereich.com> >> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 >> >> I devote a whole chapter to Cornus mas in my book Uncommon Fruits for >> Every Garden. One website says that ?mas? means is a Latin prefix meaning >> ?strong?, referring to the wood, which you quickly find out it is, when >> pruning. >> >> That same site states that ?cornelian? comes from ?cornel? which comes >> from ?cornu?, describing hard and tough objects, such as the horn of a >> goat. Researching for my book, however, I found that ?cornelian? refers to >> the fruits similatrity in color to cornelian (or carnelian) quartz. >> Cornelian quartz ?has a waxy luster and a deep red, reddish white, of flesh >> red (?carnis' is Latin for flesh color) color?. Perhaps the ?mas? meaning >> is also wrong; perhaps I?m wrong about Cornus meaning. >> >> Lee Reich, PhD >> Come visit my farmden at http://www.leereich.com/blog < >> http://www.leereich.com/blog> >> http://leereich.com/ >> >> Books by Lee Reich: >> A Northeast Gardener's Year >> The Pruning Book >> Weedless Gardening >> Uncommon Fruits for Every Garden >> Landscaping with Fruit >> Grow Fruit Naturally >> >>> On Mar 16, 2016, at 12:57 AM, Ginda Fisher wrote: >>> >>> I read, probably on this list, that "mas" is for "masculine, since the >> young tree only produces masculine blooms. >>> >>> Ginda Fisher >>> >>> On Mar 15, 2016, at 5:35 PM, Dr. Lucky Pittman wrote: >>> >>>> C.mas in full bloom here in KY right now. >>>> >>>> Saw a post on Facebook one night last week... nice photo, with caption >>>> "Cornus mas fruit" , and underneath, the 'see translation hypertext'... >>>> clicked on it... "Cornus more fruit"... from Spanish.... >>>> Duh. I knew 'mas' meant 'more' in el Espanol... but I'm not certain >> that >>>> that is where that specific epithet came from. >>>> >>>> Lucky Pittman >>>> Hopkinsville, KY >>>> >>>> -----Original Message----- >>>> From: nafex [mailto:nafex-bounces at lists.ibiblio.org] On Behalf Of >> Brungardt, >>>> Sam (MPCA) >>>> Sent: Tuesday, March 15, 2016 2:34 PM >>>> To: mailing list at ibiblio - Northamerican Allied Fruit Experimenters >>>> Subject: [nafex] Ancient Fruit Cornelian Cherry Warrants a Comeback (ABC >>>> News) >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> Chron.com >>>> >>>> Ancient Fruit Cornelian Cherry Warrants a Comeback >>>> < >> https://www.google.com/url?rct=j&sa=t&url=http://abcnews.go.com/Health/wire >>>> >> Story/ancient-fruit-cornelian-cherry-warrants-comeback-37654386&ct=ga&cd=CAE >>>> >> YACoUMTIxOTA0OTI2NDc4MTA4MTg1ODgyGmRmZTAxMjc3N2JlODQ1YTY6Y29tOmVuOlVT&usg=AF >>>> QjCNENTrW0QoWVJWcp0fOwMZT5cl6Fnw> >>>> ABC News >>>> Summer and fall also bring fruits, which, unknown to most people, are >>>> edible. The fruits - oval, fire-engine red, with a single stone - look >> a lot >>>> like ... >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> __________________ >>>> nafex mailing list >>>> nafex at lists.ibiblio.org >>>> Northamerican Allied Fruit Experimenters subscribe/unsubscribe|user >>>> config|list info: >>>> http://lists.ibiblio.org/mailman/listinfo/nafex >>>> >>>> __________________ >>>> nafex mailing list >>>> nafex at lists.ibiblio.org >>>> Northamerican Allied Fruit Experimenters >>>> subscribe/unsubscribe|user config|list info: >>>> http://lists.ibiblio.org/mailman/listinfo/nafex >>> >>> __________________ >>> nafex mailing list >>> nafex at lists.ibiblio.org >>> Northamerican Allied Fruit Experimenters >>> subscribe/unsubscribe|user config|list info: >>> http://lists.ibiblio.org/mailman/listinfo/nafex >> >> >> >> ------------------------------ >> >> Subject: Digest Footer >> >> __________________ >> nafex mailing list >> nafex at lists.ibiblio.org >> Northamerican Allied Fruit Experimenters >> subscribe/unsubscribe|user config|list info: >> http://lists.ibiblio.org/mailman/listinfo/nafex >> >> ------------------------------ >> >> End of nafex Digest, Vol 173, Issue 8 >> ************************************* >> > __________________ > nafex mailing list > nafex at lists.ibiblio.org > Northamerican Allied Fruit Experimenters > subscribe/unsubscribe|user config|list info: > http://lists.ibiblio.org/mailman/listinfo/nafex From tanisgrif at yahoo.com Thu Mar 17 11:38:25 2016 From: tanisgrif at yahoo.com (tanis grif) Date: Thu, 17 Mar 2016 15:38:25 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [nafex] Interesting article, need help with link References: <532090081.251760.1458229105924.JavaMail.yahoo.ref@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <532090081.251760.1458229105924.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> Univ. WI publishes the magazine 'Wisconsin People and Ideas', website wisconsinacademy.org In the Fall 2015 issue was a nice article about the project to preserve and ID old apple trees on the former farms of the former Badger Army Ammunition Plant. "Of Connection and Renewal". I've tried to figure out how to post a link for the listserv, but the magazine's website and the URLs at the end of the article aren't any help. The group doing the project-- the Badger Apple Corp-- doesn't have a website. It's an interesting article and seems fairly complete (lacking mention of some of the hard winters and long droughts these trees have survived). I don't know how to get it to the listserv other than scanning it and linking the images, which is probably against copyright. Otherwise, watch for results of some research the article mentions: the accumulation in fruit of toxins from contaminated soils. Tanis Cuff, s.WI, crocus and snowdrops blooming but wind damaged, earliest buds swelling but slowed by temerature drop From cgarriss at garriss.net Fri Mar 18 06:46:35 2016 From: cgarriss at garriss.net (Chris Garriss) Date: Fri, 18 Mar 2016 06:46:35 -0400 Subject: [nafex] Of Connection and Renewal: The Historic Apple Trees of the Badger Army Ammunition Plant (PDF Download Available) Message-ID: You can download a PDF of the article from this page. https://www.researchgate.net/publication/283501057_Of_Connection_and_Renewal_The_Historic_Apple_Trees_of_the_Badger_Army_Ammunition_Plant Chris Garriss Sent via Android Phone From pxbacher at gmail.com Sat Mar 19 14:21:05 2016 From: pxbacher at gmail.com (Peter Chrisbacher) Date: Sat, 19 Mar 2016 14:21:05 -0400 Subject: [nafex] McAllister Peach Message-ID: Anyone ever heard of the McAllister Peach? I was at the backyard Fruit Growers grafting meeting this weekend and spoke with a gentleman who says McAllister Peach ripens here in south east PA in November. I've never heard of a November ripening Peach before. I'm very curious to see if this variety still exists out there somewhere. -Pete Wilmington DE From fuwafuwausagi at muchomail.com Sat Mar 19 23:04:28 2016 From: fuwafuwausagi at muchomail.com (fuwa fuwa usagi) Date: Sat, 19 Mar 2016 20:04:28 -0700 Subject: [nafex] McAllister Peach Message-ID: <20160319200428.86D01945@m0087793.ppops.net> I have a peach (it was suppose to be a Reliance but it actually tasted good (the few times I got a ripe one off of it), it ripes late Oct to mid November here in zone 5a/4b. Quite a tough tree too, it is 20 years old and vigorous. this might be the last year I keep it, so let me know if you want a scion. They may have broken now, not sure...the peaches are huge... the fluffy one --- pxbacher at gmail.com wrote: From: Peter Chrisbacher To: nafex mailing list at ibiblio Subject: [nafex] McAllister Peach Date: Sat, 19 Mar 2016 14:21:05 -0400 Anyone ever heard of the McAllister Peach? I was at the backyard Fruit Growers grafting meeting this weekend and spoke with a gentleman who says McAllister Peach ripens here in south east PA in November. I've never heard of a November ripening Peach before. I'm very curious to see if this variety still exists out there somewhere. -Pete Wilmington DE __________________ nafex mailing list nafex at lists.ibiblio.org Northamerican Allied Fruit Experimenters subscribe/unsubscribe|user config|list info: http://lists.ibiblio.org/mailman/listinfo/nafex _____________________________________________________________ The Free Email with so much more! =====> http://www.MuchoMail.com <===== From pxbacher at gmail.com Sun Mar 20 15:03:15 2016 From: pxbacher at gmail.com (Peter Chrisbacher) Date: Sun, 20 Mar 2016 15:03:15 -0400 Subject: [nafex] McAllister Peach In-Reply-To: <20160319200428.86D01945@m0087793.ppops.net> References: <20160319200428.86D01945@m0087793.ppops.net> Message-ID: Hello Fluffy One! Thanks for the reply - I've reached out to my friend to see if he's interested - I'll let you know what he says. Thanks again -Pete Pete Chrisbacher On Sat, Mar 19, 2016 at 11:04 PM, fuwa fuwa usagi < fuwafuwausagi at muchomail.com> wrote: > I have a peach (it was suppose to be a Reliance but it actually tasted > good (the few times I got a ripe one off of it), it ripes late Oct to mid > November here in zone 5a/4b. Quite a tough tree too, it is 20 years old > and vigorous. this might be the last year I keep it, so let me know if you > want a scion. They may have broken now, not sure...the peaches are huge... > > the fluffy one > > --- pxbacher at gmail.com wrote: > > From: Peter Chrisbacher > To: nafex mailing list at ibiblio > Subject: [nafex] McAllister Peach > Date: Sat, 19 Mar 2016 14:21:05 -0400 > > Anyone ever heard of the McAllister Peach? I was at the backyard Fruit > Growers grafting meeting this weekend and spoke with a gentleman who says > McAllister Peach ripens here in south east PA in November. I've never heard > of a November ripening Peach before. I'm very curious to see if this > variety still exists out there somewhere. > > -Pete > Wilmington DE > __________________ > nafex mailing list > nafex at lists.ibiblio.org > Northamerican Allied Fruit Experimenters > subscribe/unsubscribe|user config|list info: > http://lists.ibiblio.org/mailman/listinfo/nafex > > > > > _____________________________________________________________ > The Free Email with so much more! > =====> http://www.MuchoMail.com <===== > __________________ > nafex mailing list > nafex at lists.ibiblio.org > Northamerican Allied Fruit Experimenters > subscribe/unsubscribe|user config|list info: > http://lists.ibiblio.org/mailman/listinfo/nafex > From alandhaigh at gmail.com Sun Mar 20 19:53:24 2016 From: alandhaigh at gmail.com (Alan Haigh) Date: Sun, 20 Mar 2016 19:53:24 -0400 Subject: [nafex] nafex Digest, Vol 173, Issue 14 In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: So Fluffy, it sounds like a valuable tree- why are you done with it? On Sun, Mar 20, 2016 at 3:03 PM, wrote: > Send nafex mailing list submissions to > nafex at lists.ibiblio.org > > To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit > http://lists.ibiblio.org/mailman/listinfo/nafex > or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to > nafex-request at lists.ibiblio.org > > You can reach the person managing the list at > nafex-owner at lists.ibiblio.org > > When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific > than "Re: Contents of nafex digest..." > > > Today's Topics: > > 1. Re: McAllister Peach (Peter Chrisbacher) > > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > > Message: 1 > Date: Sun, 20 Mar 2016 15:03:15 -0400 > From: Peter Chrisbacher > To: fuwafuwausagi at muchomail.com, mailing list at ibiblio - > Northamerican Allied Fruit Experimenters < > nafex at lists.ibiblio.org> > Subject: Re: [nafex] McAllister Peach > Message-ID: > w at mail.gmail.com> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 > > Hello Fluffy One! > > Thanks for the reply - I've reached out to my friend to see if he's > interested - I'll let you know what he says. > > Thanks again > > -Pete > > > > Pete Chrisbacher > > On Sat, Mar 19, 2016 at 11:04 PM, fuwa fuwa usagi < > fuwafuwausagi at muchomail.com> wrote: > > > I have a peach (it was suppose to be a Reliance but it actually tasted > > good (the few times I got a ripe one off of it), it ripes late Oct to mid > > November here in zone 5a/4b. Quite a tough tree too, it is 20 years old > > and vigorous. this might be the last year I keep it, so let me know if > you > > want a scion. They may have broken now, not sure...the peaches are > huge... > > > > the fluffy one > > > > --- pxbacher at gmail.com wrote: > > > > From: Peter Chrisbacher > > To: nafex mailing list at ibiblio > > Subject: [nafex] McAllister Peach > > Date: Sat, 19 Mar 2016 14:21:05 -0400 > > > > Anyone ever heard of the McAllister Peach? I was at the backyard Fruit > > Growers grafting meeting this weekend and spoke with a gentleman who says > > McAllister Peach ripens here in south east PA in November. I've never > heard > > of a November ripening Peach before. I'm very curious to see if this > > variety still exists out there somewhere. > > > > -Pete > > Wilmington DE > > __________________ > > nafex mailing list > > nafex at lists.ibiblio.org > > Northamerican Allied Fruit Experimenters > > subscribe/unsubscribe|user config|list info: > > http://lists.ibiblio.org/mailman/listinfo/nafex > > > > > > > > > > _____________________________________________________________ > > The Free Email with so much more! > > =====> http://www.MuchoMail.com <===== > > __________________ > > nafex mailing list > > nafex at lists.ibiblio.org > > Northamerican Allied Fruit Experimenters > > subscribe/unsubscribe|user config|list info: > > http://lists.ibiblio.org/mailman/listinfo/nafex > > > > > ------------------------------ > > Subject: Digest Footer > > __________________ > nafex mailing list > nafex at lists.ibiblio.org > Northamerican Allied Fruit Experimenters > subscribe/unsubscribe|user config|list info: > http://lists.ibiblio.org/mailman/listinfo/nafex > > ------------------------------ > > End of nafex Digest, Vol 173, Issue 14 > ************************************** > From fuwafuwausagi at muchomail.com Sun Mar 20 22:24:38 2016 From: fuwafuwausagi at muchomail.com (fuwa fuwa usagi) Date: Sun, 20 Mar 2016 19:24:38 -0700 Subject: [nafex] Alan queries: Re: nafex Digest, Vol 173, Issue 14 Message-ID: <20160320192438.86AD6914@m0087797.ppops.net> Alan queries: So Fluffy, it sounds like a valuable tree- why are you done with it? My reply: We normally get our first hard frost/freeze by Oct 15th, I think I have only gotten 2-3 harvests in the 20 some years I have grown it. It is simply too late here. I might graft it to Krystk 1 (nothing I have read so far says that peach was found to be incomparable, though circa 2002-2005 it seems there were open concerns; however I may not have read far enough yet.) and plant it against my south facing brick wall. The peach I have there now (Belle of Georgia - so yummy)seems 3 weeks ahead of its clone parent. If you want to try it, I'll see if it has broke yet or can hard prune it to push wood for you for next year. Nice to hear from you Alan. Your friend, fluffy --- alandhaigh at gmail.com wrote: From: Alan Haigh To: nafex at lists.ibiblio.org Subject: Re: [nafex] nafex Digest, Vol 173, Issue 14 Date: Sun, 20 Mar 2016 19:53:24 -0400 So Fluffy, it sounds like a valuable tree- why are you done with it? Re: > On Sat, Mar 19, 2016 at 11:04 PM, fuwa fuwa usagi < > fuwafuwausagi at muchomail.com> wrote: > > > I have a peach (it was suppose to be a Reliance but it actually tasted > > good (the few times I got a ripe one off of it), it ripes late Oct to mid > > November here in zone 5a/4b. Quite a tough tree too, it is 20 years old > > and vigorous. this might be the last year I keep it, so let me know if > you > > want a scion. They may have broken now, not sure...the peaches are > huge... > > > > the fluffy one > > _____________________________________________________________ The Free Email with so much more! =====> http://www.MuchoMail.com <===== From jwlehmantree at gmail.com Mon Mar 21 07:19:25 2016 From: jwlehmantree at gmail.com (Jerry Lehman) Date: Mon, 21 Mar 2016 07:19:25 -0400 Subject: [nafex] Alan queries: Re: nafex Digest, Vol 173, Issue 14 In-Reply-To: <20160320192438.86AD6914@m0087797.ppops.net> References: <20160320192438.86AD6914@m0087797.ppops.net> Message-ID: <56EFD8BD.8050209@gmail.com> On 3/20/2016 10:24 PM, fuwa fuwa usagi wrote: > We normally get our first hard frost/freeze by Oct 15th, I think I > have only gotten 2-3 harvests in the 20 some years I have grown it. It > is simply too late here. I might graft it to Krystk 1 (nothing I have > read so far says that peach was found to be incomparable, though circa > 2002-2005 it seems there were open concerns; however I may not have > read far enough yet.) and plant it against my south facing brick wall. > The peach I have there now (Belle of Georgia - so yummy)seems 3 weeks > ahead of its clone parent. Good Morning Mr. Fluffy, The Lord knows I'm among the worlds worst spellers and if it weren't for being a trademarked name I wouldn't point out the error. Krymsk 1 was bred by Gennadiy Ereman of Krymsk Russia and the original designator which was a breeder cultivar number was changed to Krymsk series for the US markets. If there actually is a Krystk series I'm going to be embarrassed, but it wouldn't be the 1st time. Yes, one of the imported Krymsk rootstocks did have peach incompatibility problems but I don't believe it was Krymsk 1 and I would have to check my records to find which one it was. Have a good week, Jerry From nathan.b.c.wilson at gmail.com Mon Mar 21 09:01:57 2016 From: nathan.b.c.wilson at gmail.com (Nathan Wilson) Date: Mon, 21 Mar 2016 09:01:57 -0400 Subject: [nafex] Recipes: Fruit Shrubs In-Reply-To: <1268E36B214F7D4F968B0285BF5CF3E4058375C6@055-CH1MPN1-032.055d.mgd.msft.net> References: <1268E36B214F7D4F968B0285BF5CF3E4058375C6@055-CH1MPN1-032.055d.mgd.msft.net> Message-ID: Has anyone tried any of the recipes from 'Seasonal Fruit Desserts' by Deborah Madison? http://deborahmadison.com/seasonal-fruit-desserts/ -Nathan On Wed, Mar 16, 2016 at 1:32 PM, Brungardt, Sam (MPCA) < sam.brungardt at state.mn.us> wrote: > Recipes: Fruit Shrubs < > https://www.google.com/url?rct=j&sa=t&url=http://www.dallasnews.com/lifestyles/food-wine/food-wine-headlines/20160315-recipes-fruit-shrubs.ece&ct=ga&cd=CAEYACoTMTg4OTU5NTc4NTU0MDg0OTU0MTIaZGZlMDEyNzc3YmU4NDVhNjpjb206ZW46VVM&usg=AFQjCNF4YjxAmfn4GCjIfNxdjwnlmZ0nEA > > > Dallas Morning News > Blackberry, strawberry, pear - these fruit shrubs are an impressive drink > that you'll be excited to share with your friends. > The secrets behind a winning shrub recipe from Dallas experts< > https://www.google.com/url?rct=j&sa=t&url=http://www.dallasnews.com/lifestyles/food-wine/food-wine-headlines/20160315-the-secrets-behind-a-winning-shrub-recipe-from-dallas-experts.ece&ct=ga&cd=CAEYACoTMTg4OTU5NTc4NTU0MDg0OTU0MTIaZGZlMDEyNzc3YmU4NDVhNjpjb206ZW46VVM&usg=AFQjCNG6jzVZCYSxSkRLBULuPmQcCyuDgw> > - Dallas Morning News > > __________________ > nafex mailing list > nafex at lists.ibiblio.org > Northamerican Allied Fruit Experimenters > subscribe/unsubscribe|user config|list info: > http://lists.ibiblio.org/mailman/listinfo/nafex > From pxbacher at gmail.com Tue Mar 22 10:34:41 2016 From: pxbacher at gmail.com (Peter Chrisbacher) Date: Tue, 22 Mar 2016 10:34:41 -0400 Subject: [nafex] Plum Grafting / Budding In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Greetings All - Last year I attempted to graft 6 Plum Rootstocks to 6 varieties of plum; 0 takes. This year the Rootstocks are doing well and I have a fresh batch of scions. Does anyone have any *tricks* for successfully grafting Plum on an established seedling? Whip? Splice? Tight or loose binding? I plan to bud as well as a safety net. I also have 3 bare Rootstocks. Tips for these would be appreciated as well. Thanks All- -Pete Wilmington DE From dwoodard at becon.org Tue Mar 22 10:48:39 2016 From: dwoodard at becon.org (dwoodard at becon.org) Date: Tue, 22 Mar 2016 10:48:39 -0400 Subject: [nafex] Fruit Propagation Workshop, fee, central Virginia, 2 April In-Reply-To: <56F14F89.7080903@conev.org> References: <56F14F89.7080903@conev.org> Message-ID: <8e0622cb8744a0275998fadcf6ca6821@becon.org> See flyer at I'm not connected in any way except that I know (as an internet acquaintance and a writer) and admire the person giving the workshop, Alexis Zeigler. He is especially interested in less conventional species which are low-maintenance in Virginia and nearby states. You can learn about his other activities at http://www.livingenergyfarm.org and http://conev.org (54-page book on fruit readable on the conev website). Doug Woodard St. Catharines, Ontario From gary.masog at gci.net Tue Mar 22 10:53:37 2016 From: gary.masog at gci.net (Gary Masog) Date: Tue, 22 Mar 2016 06:53:37 -0800 Subject: [nafex] Plum Grafting / Budding In-Reply-To: Message-ID: ?? If grafting outside wait until full buds, they need warm weather for the grafts to take.? Usually easy to graft but I always have poor long term survival .? I also bag them if grafting outside, with a bid of wet paper towel in colored bag. Gary ? ----- Original Message ----- From: "mailing list at ibiblio - Northamerican Allied Fruit Experimenters" To:"nafex mailing list at ibiblio" Cc: Sent:Tue, 22 Mar 2016 10:34:41 -0400 Subject:[nafex] Plum Grafting / Budding Greetings All - Last year I attempted to graft 6 Plum Rootstocks to 6 varieties of plum; 0 takes. This year the Rootstocks are doing well and I have a fresh batch of scions. Does anyone have any *tricks* for successfully grafting Plum on an established seedling? Whip? Splice? Tight or loose binding? I plan to bud as well as a safety net. I also have 3 bare Rootstocks. Tips for these would be appreciated as well. Thanks All- -Pete Wilmington DE __________________ nafex mailing list nafex at lists.ibiblio.org Northamerican Allied Fruit Experimenters subscribe/unsubscribe|user config|list info: http://lists.ibiblio.org/mailman/listinfo/nafex From nave1 at comcast.net Tue Mar 22 15:16:06 2016 From: nave1 at comcast.net (Dan Nave) Date: Tue, 22 Mar 2016 14:16:06 -0500 Subject: [nafex] Alan queries: Re: nafex Digest, Vol 173, Issue 14 In-Reply-To: <20160320192438.86AD6914@m0087797.ppops.net> References: <20160320192438.86AD6914@m0087797.ppops.net> Message-ID: <56F199F6.3060207@comcast.net> A note I got from Cummins Nursery states: "We have had graft union sensitivity with first Krymsk 86 and now Krymsk 1 in many varieties, we always lose an inordinate number of trees to breakage at the time of digging. The hope has been that these unions would strengthen over time, which does seem to happen in the case of many varieties. But all in all I think we are ready to abandon the Krymsk 1 for apricots (and peach, but not plum), in spite of the cold hardiness and the dwarfing qualities. For the spring 2014 season we are returning to the use of Manchurian" So I would not graft peach onto K1 since it is incompatible with apricot and peach... Dan On 3/20/2016 9:24 PM, fuwa fuwa usagi wrote: > Alan queries: > > So Fluffy, it sounds like a valuable tree- why are you done with it? > > My reply: > > We normally get our first hard frost/freeze by Oct 15th, I think I have only gotten 2-3 harvests in the 20 some years I have grown it. It is simply too late here. I might graft it to Krystk 1 (nothing I have read so far says that peach was found to be incomparable, though circa 2002-2005 it seems there were open concerns; however I may not have read far enough yet.) and plant it against my south facing brick wall. The peach I have there now (Belle of Georgia - so yummy)seems 3 weeks ahead of its clone parent. > > If you want to try it, I'll see if it has broke yet or can hard prune it to push wood for you for next year. > > Nice to hear from you Alan. > > Your friend, > > fluffy > > --- alandhaigh at gmail.com wrote: > > From: Alan Haigh > To: nafex at lists.ibiblio.org > Subject: Re: [nafex] nafex Digest, Vol 173, Issue 14 > Date: Sun, 20 Mar 2016 19:53:24 -0400 > > So Fluffy, it sounds like a valuable tree- why are you done with it? > > > Re: > >> On Sat, Mar 19, 2016 at 11:04 PM, fuwa fuwa usagi < >> fuwafuwausagi at muchomail.com> wrote: >> >>> I have a peach (it was suppose to be a Reliance but it actually tasted >>> good (the few times I got a ripe one off of it), it ripes late Oct to mid >>> November here in zone 5a/4b. Quite a tough tree too, it is 20 years old >>> and vigorous. this might be the last year I keep it, so let me know if >> you >>> want a scion. They may have broken now, not sure...the peaches are >> huge... >>> the fluffy one >>> > > _____________________________________________________________ > The Free Email with so much more! > =====> http://www.MuchoMail.com <===== > __________________ > nafex mailing list > nafex at lists.ibiblio.org > Northamerican Allied Fruit Experimenters > subscribe/unsubscribe|user config|list info: > http://lists.ibiblio.org/mailman/listinfo/nafex > --- This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software. https://www.avast.com/antivirus From jwlehmantree at gmail.com Tue Mar 22 23:03:53 2016 From: jwlehmantree at gmail.com (Jerry Lehman) Date: Tue, 22 Mar 2016 23:03:53 -0400 Subject: [nafex] Plum Grafting / Budding In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <56F20799.8010903@gmail.com> On 3/22/2016 10:34 AM, Peter Chrisbacher wrote: > Does anyone have any*tricks* for successfully grafting Plum on an > established seedling? Whip? Splice? Tight or loose binding? I plan to bud > as well as a safety net. Pete, My suggestion is wait until active growth has begun and the bark is in the slip. I would use a splice, whip and tongue or machine graft. Wrap it tight and cover it with Parafilm. I would also place foil on the south leaving it open to the north to shad it from the sun to keep it cool. It works I've grafted several plums. Jerry From fuwafuwausagi at muchomail.com Tue Mar 22 23:50:00 2016 From: fuwafuwausagi at muchomail.com (fuwa fuwa usagi) Date: Tue, 22 Mar 2016 20:50:00 -0700 Subject: [nafex] Alan queries: Re: nafex Digest, Vol 173, Issue 14 Message-ID: <20160322205000.86AC5EB1@m0087797.ppops.net> Gang, My esteemed friend Jerry correctly points out that not only can rabbits not spell but apparently this one is also too lazy to look things up - LOL. In addition another esteemed list member and dear friend contacted my privately and indicated there may be some bacterial issues with Krymsk. A few minutes of searching did turn up some old studies that pointed out similar concerns. Live large, the fluffy one Jerry's comments: Good Morning Mr. Fluffy, The Lord knows I'm among the worlds worst spellers and if it weren't for being a trademarked name I wouldn't point out the error. Krymsk 1 was bred by Gennadiy Ereman of Krymsk Russia and the original designator which was a breeder cultivar number was changed to Krymsk series for the US markets. If there actually is a Krystk series I'm going to be embarrassed, but it wouldn't be the 1st time. Yes, one of the imported Krymsk rootstocks did have peach incompatibility problems but I don't believe it was Krymsk 1 and I would have to check my records to find which one it was. Have a good week, Jerry _____________________________________________________________ The Free Email with so much more! =====> http://www.MuchoMail.com <===== From fuwafuwausagi at muchomail.com Tue Mar 22 23:55:27 2016 From: fuwafuwausagi at muchomail.com (fuwa fuwa usagi) Date: Tue, 22 Mar 2016 20:55:27 -0700 Subject: [nafex] Plum Grafting / Budding Message-ID: <20160322205527.86AC5E9D@m0087797.ppops.net> If it matters, I second Jerry's comments. At one time I grafted a lot of plums and found that grafting later makes a large difference. Interestingly, my experience with cherries is the opposite. With them the earlier the better, just use parafilm or melted wax. fluffy --- jwlehmantree at gmail.com wrote: From: Jerry Lehman To: mailing list at ibiblio - Northamerican Allied Fruit Experimenters Subject: Re: [nafex] Plum Grafting / Budding Date: Tue, 22 Mar 2016 23:03:53 -0400 On 3/22/2016 10:34 AM, Peter Chrisbacher wrote: > Does anyone have any*tricks* for successfully grafting Plum on an > established seedling? Whip? Splice? Tight or loose binding? I plan to bud > as well as a safety net. Pete, My suggestion is wait until active growth has begun and the bark is in the slip. I would use a splice, whip and tongue or machine graft. Wrap it tight and cover it with Parafilm. I would also place foil on the south leaving it open to the north to shad it from the sun to keep it cool. It works I've grafted several plums. Jerry __________________ nafex mailing list nafex at lists.ibiblio.org Northamerican Allied Fruit Experimenters subscribe/unsubscribe|user config|list info: http://lists.ibiblio.org/mailman/listinfo/nafex _____________________________________________________________ The Free Email with so much more! =====> http://www.MuchoMail.com <===== From pxbacher at gmail.com Wed Mar 23 07:36:14 2016 From: pxbacher at gmail.com (Peter Chrisbacher) Date: Wed, 23 Mar 2016 07:36:14 -0400 Subject: [nafex] Plum Grafting / Budding In-Reply-To: <20160322205527.86AC5E9D@m0087797.ppops.net> References: <20160322205527.86AC5E9D@m0087797.ppops.net> Message-ID: Thank you both, gentlemen, for your helpful advice! I've heard anecdotally that grafting plums is possible (and one of the guys at the BYFG grafting meeting told me "ALL my plum grafts took last year! I just did normal grafts!" without providing any helpful details). I grafted three last night (splice) on actively growing 1 YO in-ground rootstock with dime-size leaves. Most of the leaves were high up the leader, so they ended up getting cut off. I'm assuming (hoping) the roots will just continue pushing into the scion now if my grafts are any good. I wrapped tightly but not excessively with a budding rubber, then parafilm, including a single-wrap covering of the lowest scion bud to keep it from drying out (2 buds on each scion). Tree-cote to seal the exposed scion cut. Tonight when I get home I'll add some foil. Scions will be kept refrigerated for later budding just in case. Thanks again for your advice -Pete Wilmington, DE Pete Chrisbacher On Tue, Mar 22, 2016 at 11:55 PM, fuwa fuwa usagi < fuwafuwausagi at muchomail.com> wrote: > If it matters, I second Jerry's comments. At one time I grafted a lot of > plums and found that grafting later makes a large difference. > Interestingly, my experience with cherries is the opposite. With them the > earlier the better, just use parafilm or melted wax. > > fluffy > > --- jwlehmantree at gmail.com wrote: > > From: Jerry Lehman > To: mailing list at ibiblio - Northamerican Allied Fruit Experimenters < > nafex at lists.ibiblio.org> > Subject: Re: [nafex] Plum Grafting / Budding > Date: Tue, 22 Mar 2016 23:03:53 -0400 > > On 3/22/2016 10:34 AM, Peter Chrisbacher wrote: > > Does anyone have any*tricks* for successfully grafting Plum on an > > established seedling? Whip? Splice? Tight or loose binding? I plan to bud > > as well as a safety net. > Pete, > > My suggestion is wait until active growth has begun and the bark is in > the slip. I would use a splice, whip and tongue or machine graft. Wrap > it tight and cover it with Parafilm. I would also place foil on the > south leaving it open to the north to shad it from the sun to keep it > cool. It works I've grafted several plums. > > Jerry > __________________ > nafex mailing list > nafex at lists.ibiblio.org > Northamerican Allied Fruit Experimenters > subscribe/unsubscribe|user config|list info: > http://lists.ibiblio.org/mailman/listinfo/nafex > > > > > _____________________________________________________________ > The Free Email with so much more! > =====> http://www.MuchoMail.com <===== > __________________ > nafex mailing list > nafex at lists.ibiblio.org > Northamerican Allied Fruit Experimenters > subscribe/unsubscribe|user config|list info: > http://lists.ibiblio.org/mailman/listinfo/nafex > From jwlehmantree at gmail.com Wed Mar 23 08:24:19 2016 From: jwlehmantree at gmail.com (Jerry Lehman) Date: Wed, 23 Mar 2016 08:24:19 -0400 Subject: [nafex] Plum Grafting / Budding In-Reply-To: References: <20160322205527.86AC5E9D@m0087797.ppops.net> Message-ID: <56F28AF3.1030708@gmail.com> On 3/23/2016 7:36 AM, Peter Chrisbacher wrote: > Thank you both, gentlemen, for your helpful advice! I've heard > anecdotally that grafting plums is possible (and one of the guys at > the BYFG grafting meeting told me "ALL my plum grafts took last year! > I just did normal grafts!" without providing any helpful details). > > I grafted three last night (splice) on actively growing 1 YO in-ground > rootstock with dime-size leaves. Most of the leaves were high up the > leader, so they ended up getting cut off. I'm assuming (hoping) the > roots will just continue pushing into the scion now if my grafts are > any good. I wrapped tightly but not excessively with a budding > rubber, then parafilm, including a single-wrap covering of the lowest > scion bud to keep it from drying out (2 buds on each scion). Tree-cote > to seal the exposed scion cut. > Pete, Thank you Fluffy for your concurrence. Let me add 2 more " by the ways," and an observation. Storing cherry scion's in a normal refrigeration for any length of time can lead to a problem. 40? to 45? is too warm, it approximates the outdoor temperature when cherry flower buds become active. Likewise they will do that in the refrigerator at those temperatures and will be too active when grafting reducing the success rate. Store cherry scion wood as close to the freezing temperature as you can to keep it fully dormant. My scion storage refrigerator has been modified and it will actually frost in the bottom where the coldest air settles and a little frost will not hurt a fully dormant piece of scion wood. At least I have never detected damage to scion wood that has been lightly frosted. I would not stored in a deep-freeze where the temperature can get down to near 0 because if any activity had begun in the scion wood, the cells filling with water, the cells could burst damaging the wood. I have often grafted using the splice graft or machine graft and pulled the rubber band as tight as I can. You would think it could constrict the activity but certainly in persimmon and pawpaw I've not seen a problem. It will girdle the graft sooner because there is less elasticity left for expansion. As soon as the graft has calloused and begun growth simply cut the rubber band in one or 2 places and there is no need to remove it as now the expanding calloused area is not restricted. Again I cover the entire scion wood starting below the graph point with Parafilm, no need to fool around with wax or anything else. Simply expand (stretch it out approximately double length) the Parafilm start below the graft union keep wrapping all the way up and pitch it off above the scion or continue back down until you run out of Parafilm. Anything that I have ever grafted pushes right through it, and I've made many many grafts of many species. In my opinion wrapping tightly is important. I believe the 2 cambium layers must be pulled and held together in order to callous, especially in hardwood such as nut trees which would include harder wood of the plum family. Plum wood is much more dense than cherry. I've had people tell me they have successfully grafted using masking tape to hold the understock and scion together and I have no doubt that can work. But I firmly believe to increase your success percentage, wrap the graft union tight. Jerry A persimmon button pushing through Parafilm. As IBIBLIO often sees pictures as spam ( numerous times I've been removed from the list for sending pictures) and IBIBLIO doesn't include the sender I have no way of knowing if this was passed through and if I'm still allowed on the net. Would someone let me know via direct email that the picture came through. From jwlehmantree at gmail.com Wed Mar 23 08:52:22 2016 From: jwlehmantree at gmail.com (Jerry Lehman) Date: Wed, 23 Mar 2016 08:52:22 -0400 Subject: [nafex] test to Gina Message-ID: <56F29186.8060505@gmail.com> Please let me know if this came through then I'll know if I've not been turned off again. From lfljvenaura at gmail.com Wed Mar 23 09:32:34 2016 From: lfljvenaura at gmail.com (Lawrence London) Date: Wed, 23 Mar 2016 09:32:34 -0400 Subject: [nafex] test to Gina In-Reply-To: <56F29186.8060505@gmail.com> References: <56F29186.8060505@gmail.com> Message-ID: Jerry writes: jwlehmantree at gmail.com On Wed, Mar 23, 2016 at 8:52 AM, Jerry Lehman wrote: > Please let me know if this came through then I'll know if I've not been > turned off again. > __________________ > nafex mailing list > nafex at lists.ibiblio.org > Northamerican Allied Fruit Experimenters > subscribe/unsubscribe|user config|list info: > http://lists.ibiblio.org/mailman/listinfo/nafex > Your post made it to me via the nafex list so no you have "not been turned off again". If your posts don't go through it usually means that they originated from some compromised source, i.e. the aol mail host or another one whose email gets filtered out for not complying with ibiblio's or Google's (or other site's) email standards. This means that an email server recognized as safe or legitimate will have met such standards by filtering out email with certain spam or virus content before sending it out to or through other mail hosts. Gmail checks each email sent to its server by looking at its good and bad attributes and comparing them with those on its its checklist before sending it along to another mail host or directly to an individual's email account. With the nafex and permaculture lists each post is checked twice, once by ibiblio and again by Gmail which hosts the mirrors for those forums. Each of those hosts will alert me if they think suspicious email is trying to get through. This procedure does not prevent email with links/URLs to sites that instantly embed viruses on the computer of anyone clicking on them. I have no idea why your nafex subscription would have ever been disabled or cancelled unless you previously use aol or had your email account configured to send out email in some format unacceptable to other email hosts, Jerry. LL -- Lawrence F. London lfljvenaura at gmail.com https://sites.google.com/site/avantgeared/ From lfljvenaura at gmail.com Wed Mar 23 09:35:26 2016 From: lfljvenaura at gmail.com (Lawrence London) Date: Wed, 23 Mar 2016 09:35:26 -0400 Subject: [nafex] Fwd: Lowering the Risk of Infection with Grapes In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: ---------- Forwarded message ---------- From: ARS News Service Date: Wed, Mar 23, 2016 at 8:55 AM Subject: Lowering the Risk of Infection with Grapes To: ARS News subscriber ------------------------------ ARS News Service Agricultural Research Service, USDA --View this report online, plus photos and related stories, at www.ars.usda.gov/is/pr --Follow us on Twitter at http://twitter.com/USDA_ARS ------------------------------ *Read the magazine story to find out more. * [image: Purple, red and green grapes. Link to photo information] Consuming grapes may help reduce infection risk in obese people, ARS research suggests. * Click the image for more information about it.* [image: For further reading] - Connecting Overeating, Emotions and Cognitive Control in Young Children - Brain Images Focus on Stress Eaters' Neurological Response to Comfort Foods - Scientists Explore Brain, Cortisol, and Weight Loss Connections Lowering the Risk of Infection with Grapes By Sandra Avant March 23, 2016 Eating grapes may help obese people decrease certain types of fats in their blood that are linked to heart disease and lower their risk of infection, according to a U.S. Department of Agriculture (USDA) study. Susan Zunino , a molecular biologist with the Agricultural Research Service?s (ARS) Western Human Nutrition Research Center (WHNRC) in Davis, California, studies phytochemicals?natural compounds found in fruits such as grapes and strawberries. Her recent work suggests that phytochemicals from grapes may have a positive effect on the immune system of obese individuals. Hospital and clinic documentation of viral and bacterial infection has shown that obese people are at a much higher risk for developing infections after surgery, according to Zunino. About 35 percent of Americans are obese, which puts them at a higher risk of developing heart disease, diabetes, and bacterial and viral infections. In the study, obese participants drank either a mixture of water and grape powder made from freeze-dried table grapes or a placebo twice a day for three weeks. The two groups switched to the opposite mixture for the next three weeks. Blood samples were analyzed to measure the effects of grapes on blood lipids (fats), blood markers of inflammation and cells of the immune system during the study. Compared with the placebo group, the grape powder group had reduced plasma concentrations of low-density lipoprotein (LDL), known as ?bad? cholesterol, which is associated with heart disease. When scientists stimulated immune cells from blood with a bacterial component, they found an increase in the production of proteins?cytokines?that are instrumental in fighting off infections. In previous research, Zunino discovered that one of the same cytokine proteins was produced when obese individuals consumed strawberry powder. However, obesity leads to more inflammation in the body, according to Zunino. Therefore, more studies are needed to find out if the increase in cytokine production, after grapes and strawberries are eaten, contributes to more inflammation or is beneficial in reducing infections. ARS is USDA?s principal intramural scientific research agency. Read more about this work in the March 2016 issue of *AgResearch*. ------------------------------ This is one of the news reports that ARS Information distributes to subscribers on weekdays. Send feedback and questions to the ARS News Service at NewsService at ars.usda.gov. * You are subscribed to "ARS News" as lflj at bellsouth.net. * To change the address, please notify the ARS News Service at NewsService at ars.usda.gov. * To unsubscribe, send a blank email to leave-172658-2628.8e065119c74efe3a47aec8796964cf8b at ls.ars.usda.gov. * Other ARS news products are available by e-mail. For details about them or to subscribe, please contact the ARS News Service or visit http://www.ars.usda.gov/is/pr/lists.htm. ------------------------------ ARS News Service, Information Staff, Agricultural Research Service 5601 Sunnyside Ave., Room 1-2251, Beltsville MD 20705-5128 NewsService at ars.usda.gov | www.ars.usda.gov/news Phone (301) 504-1636 | fax (301) 504-1486 USDA is an equal opportunity provider, employer, and lender. To file a complaint of discrimination, write: USDA, Office of the Assistant Secretary for Civil Rights, Office of Adjudication, 1400 Independence Ave., SW, Washington, DC 20250-9410 or call (866) 632-9992 (Toll-free Customer Service), (800) 877-8339 (Local or Federal relay), (866) 377-8642 (Relay voice users). -- Lawrence F. London lfljvenaura at gmail.com https://sites.google.com/site/avantgeared/ From pxbacher at gmail.com Wed Mar 23 10:11:20 2016 From: pxbacher at gmail.com (Peter Chrisbacher) Date: Wed, 23 Mar 2016 10:11:20 -0400 Subject: [nafex] Plum Grafting / Budding In-Reply-To: <56F28AF3.1030708@gmail.com> References: <20160322205527.86AC5E9D@m0087797.ppops.net> <56F28AF3.1030708@gmail.com> Message-ID: Jerry - Yes, the photo came through and is very helpful. Again, thank you so much for your knowledge and assistance! I am also of the opinion that tight wrapping is best, at least with the apples and pears with which I have the most practice/experience. In my opinion, my plum grafts are wrapped sufficiently tightly; they're just not as tight as I would have wrapped an apple or pear, as I was concerned my usual super-tight wrapping last year might have been part of the cause of last year's plum graft failures ;) Your explanation of how to properly use parafilm should also be extremely helpful for others who may be new to using it. Crazing (the technical term for polymer chain alignment during elongation, if I'm correctly remembering my schooling) is a necessary ingredient in parafilm's proper use, and is one of those things you have to have someone explain or show you! -Pete Pete Chrisbacher On Wed, Mar 23, 2016 at 8:24 AM, Jerry Lehman wrote: > On 3/23/2016 7:36 AM, Peter Chrisbacher wrote: > > Thank you both, gentlemen, for your helpful advice! I've heard > anecdotally that grafting plums is possible (and one of the guys at the > BYFG grafting meeting told me "ALL my plum grafts took last year! I just > did normal grafts!" without providing any helpful details). > > I grafted three last night (splice) on actively growing 1 YO in-ground > rootstock with dime-size leaves. Most of the leaves were high up the > leader, so they ended up getting cut off. I'm assuming (hoping) the roots > will just continue pushing into the scion now if my grafts are any good. I > wrapped tightly but not excessively with a budding rubber, then parafilm, > including a single-wrap covering of the lowest scion bud to keep it from > drying out (2 buds on each scion). Tree-cote to seal the exposed scion cut. > > Pete, > > Thank you Fluffy for your concurrence. Let me add 2 more " by the ways," > and an observation. > > Storing cherry scion's in a normal refrigeration for any length of time > can lead to a problem. 40? to 45? is too warm, it approximates the outdoor > temperature when cherry flower buds become active. Likewise they will do > that in the refrigerator at those temperatures and will be too active when > grafting reducing the success rate. Store cherry scion wood as close to the > freezing temperature as you can to keep it fully dormant. My scion storage > refrigerator has been modified and it will actually frost in the bottom > where the coldest air settles and a little frost will not hurt a fully > dormant piece of scion wood. At least I have never detected damage to scion > wood that has been lightly frosted. I would not stored in a deep-freeze > where the temperature can get down to near 0 because if any activity had > begun in the scion wood, the cells filling with water, the cells could > burst damaging the wood. > > I have often grafted using the splice graft or machine graft and pulled > the rubber band as tight as I can. You would think it could constrict the > activity but certainly in persimmon and pawpaw I've not seen a problem. It > will girdle the graft sooner because there is less elasticity left for > expansion. As soon as the graft has calloused and begun growth simply cut > the rubber band in one or 2 places and there is no need to remove it as now > the expanding calloused area is not restricted. Again I cover the entire > scion wood starting below the graph point with Parafilm, no need to fool > around with wax or anything else. Simply expand (stretch it out > approximately double length) the Parafilm start below the graft union keep > wrapping all the way up and pitch it off above the scion or continue back > down until you run out of Parafilm. Anything that I have ever grafted > pushes right through it, and I've made many many grafts of many species. > > In my opinion wrapping tightly is important. I believe the 2 cambium > layers must be pulled and held together in order to callous, especially in > hardwood such as nut trees which would include harder wood of the plum > family. Plum wood is much more dense than cherry. I've had people tell me > they have successfully grafted using masking tape to hold the understock > and scion together and I have no doubt that can work. But I firmly believe > to increase your success percentage, wrap the graft union tight. Jerry > > A persimmon button pushing through Parafilm. > > As IBIBLIO often sees pictures as spam ( numerous times I've been removed > from the list for sending pictures) and IBIBLIO doesn't include the sender > I have no way of knowing if this was passed through and if I'm still > allowed on the net. Would someone let me know via direct email that the > picture came through. > -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: bud push through-1.jpg Type: image/jpeg Size: 127696 bytes Desc: not available URL: From nave1 at comcast.net Wed Mar 23 14:24:37 2016 From: nave1 at comcast.net (Dan Nave) Date: Wed, 23 Mar 2016 13:24:37 -0500 Subject: [nafex] Plum Grafting / Budding In-Reply-To: References: <20160322205527.86AC5E9D@m0087797.ppops.net> <56F28AF3.1030708@gmail.com> Message-ID: <56F2DF65.8000804@comcast.net> I got no photo attachment on the post from Jerry, but got it on the subsequent post from Peter... Dan On 3/23/2016 9:11 AM, Peter Chrisbacher wrote: > Jerry - > > Yes, the photo came through and is very helpful. > > Again, thank you so much for your knowledge and assistance! I am also of > the opinion that tight wrapping is best, at least with the apples and pears > with which I have the most practice/experience. In my opinion, my plum > grafts are wrapped sufficiently tightly; they're just not as tight as I > would have wrapped an apple or pear, as I was concerned my usual > super-tight wrapping last year might have been part of the cause of last > year's plum graft failures ;) > > Your explanation of how to properly use parafilm should also be extremely > helpful for others who may be new to using it. Crazing (the technical term > for polymer chain alignment during elongation, if I'm correctly remembering > my schooling) is a necessary ingredient in parafilm's proper use, and is > one of those things you have to have someone explain or show you! > > -Pete > > > Pete Chrisbacher > > On Wed, Mar 23, 2016 at 8:24 AM, Jerry Lehman > wrote: > >> On 3/23/2016 7:36 AM, Peter Chrisbacher wrote: >> >> Thank you both, gentlemen, for your helpful advice! I've heard >> anecdotally that grafting plums is possible (and one of the guys at the >> BYFG grafting meeting told me "ALL my plum grafts took last year! I just >> did normal grafts!" without providing any helpful details). >> >> I grafted three last night (splice) on actively growing 1 YO in-ground >> rootstock with dime-size leaves. Most of the leaves were high up the >> leader, so they ended up getting cut off. I'm assuming (hoping) the roots >> will just continue pushing into the scion now if my grafts are any good. I >> wrapped tightly but not excessively with a budding rubber, then parafilm, >> including a single-wrap covering of the lowest scion bud to keep it from >> drying out (2 buds on each scion). Tree-cote to seal the exposed scion cut. >> >> Pete, >> >> Thank you Fluffy for your concurrence. Let me add 2 more " by the ways," >> and an observation. >> >> Storing cherry scion's in a normal refrigeration for any length of time >> can lead to a problem. 40? to 45? is too warm, it approximates the outdoor >> temperature when cherry flower buds become active. Likewise they will do >> that in the refrigerator at those temperatures and will be too active when >> grafting reducing the success rate. Store cherry scion wood as close to the >> freezing temperature as you can to keep it fully dormant. My scion storage >> refrigerator has been modified and it will actually frost in the bottom >> where the coldest air settles and a little frost will not hurt a fully >> dormant piece of scion wood. At least I have never detected damage to scion >> wood that has been lightly frosted. I would not stored in a deep-freeze >> where the temperature can get down to near 0 because if any activity had >> begun in the scion wood, the cells filling with water, the cells could >> burst damaging the wood. >> >> I have often grafted using the splice graft or machine graft and pulled >> the rubber band as tight as I can. You would think it could constrict the >> activity but certainly in persimmon and pawpaw I've not seen a problem. It >> will girdle the graft sooner because there is less elasticity left for >> expansion. As soon as the graft has calloused and begun growth simply cut >> the rubber band in one or 2 places and there is no need to remove it as now >> the expanding calloused area is not restricted. Again I cover the entire >> scion wood starting below the graph point with Parafilm, no need to fool >> around with wax or anything else. Simply expand (stretch it out >> approximately double length) the Parafilm start below the graft union keep >> wrapping all the way up and pitch it off above the scion or continue back >> down until you run out of Parafilm. Anything that I have ever grafted >> pushes right through it, and I've made many many grafts of many species. >> >> In my opinion wrapping tightly is important. I believe the 2 cambium >> layers must be pulled and held together in order to callous, especially in >> hardwood such as nut trees which would include harder wood of the plum >> family. Plum wood is much more dense than cherry. I've had people tell me >> they have successfully grafted using masking tape to hold the understock >> and scion together and I have no doubt that can work. But I firmly believe >> to increase your success percentage, wrap the graft union tight. Jerry >> >> A persimmon button pushing through Parafilm. >> >> As IBIBLIO often sees pictures as spam ( numerous times I've been removed >> from the list for sending pictures) and IBIBLIO doesn't include the sender >> I have no way of knowing if this was passed through and if I'm still >> allowed on the net. Would someone let me know via direct email that the >> picture came through. >> > > > __________________ > nafex mailing list > nafex at lists.ibiblio.org > Northamerican Allied Fruit Experimenters > subscribe/unsubscribe|user config|list info: > http://lists.ibiblio.org/mailman/listinfo/nafex --- This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software. https://www.avast.com/antivirus From oowonbs at netscape.net Wed Mar 23 17:42:25 2016 From: oowonbs at netscape.net (Oowonbs) Date: Wed, 23 Mar 2016 17:42:25 -0400 Subject: [nafex] Plum Graft < nafex Digest, Vol 174, Issue 2 In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <153a56dbc6e-3c6b-ddab@webprd-a79.mail.aol.com> Sending this direct also. after good luck, I later became unable to post to Nafex. Plums are related to cherries. This family is difficult to graft or air layer etc. As I understand it, moist moss, a layer of plastic, a light blocking layer, a way to remoisten the moss, and all things plus a year are required along with luck. Do it again... minding every tiny nuance. BillSF9c - Not a Pro From list at ginda.us Wed Mar 23 20:16:24 2016 From: list at ginda.us (Ginda Fisher) Date: Wed, 23 Mar 2016 20:16:24 -0400 Subject: [nafex] Plum Grafting / Budding In-Reply-To: References: <20160322205527.86AC5E9D@m0087797.ppops.net> <56F28AF3.1030708@gmail.com> Message-ID: <6F3F8941-69AC-4941-9F26-C99E40E93EE3@ginda.us> Very odd. I got no attachment/photo with the original post, but did get a photo with this one. On Mar 23, 2016, at 10:11 AM, Peter Chrisbacher wrote: > Jerry - > > Yes, the photo came through and is very helpful. > > Again, thank you so much for your knowledge and assistance! I am also of > the opinion that tight wrapping is best, at least with the apples and pears > with which I have the most practice/experience. In my opinion, my plum > grafts are wrapped sufficiently tightly; they're just not as tight as I > would have wrapped an apple or pear, as I was concerned my usual > super-tight wrapping last year might have been part of the cause of last > year's plum graft failures ;) > > Your explanation of how to properly use parafilm should also be extremely > helpful for others who may be new to using it. Crazing (the technical term > for polymer chain alignment during elongation, if I'm correctly remembering > my schooling) is a necessary ingredient in parafilm's proper use, and is > one of those things you have to have someone explain or show you! > > -Pete > > > Pete Chrisbacher > > On Wed, Mar 23, 2016 at 8:24 AM, Jerry Lehman > wrote: > >> On 3/23/2016 7:36 AM, Peter Chrisbacher wrote: >> >> Thank you both, gentlemen, for your helpful advice! I've heard >> anecdotally that grafting plums is possible (and one of the guys at the >> BYFG grafting meeting told me "ALL my plum grafts took last year! I just >> did normal grafts!" without providing any helpful details). >> >> I grafted three last night (splice) on actively growing 1 YO in-ground >> rootstock with dime-size leaves. Most of the leaves were high up the >> leader, so they ended up getting cut off. I'm assuming (hoping) the roots >> will just continue pushing into the scion now if my grafts are any good. I >> wrapped tightly but not excessively with a budding rubber, then parafilm, >> including a single-wrap covering of the lowest scion bud to keep it from >> drying out (2 buds on each scion). Tree-cote to seal the exposed scion cut. >> >> Pete, >> >> Thank you Fluffy for your concurrence. Let me add 2 more " by the ways," >> and an observation. >> >> Storing cherry scion's in a normal refrigeration for any length of time >> can lead to a problem. 40? to 45? is too warm, it approximates the outdoor >> temperature when cherry flower buds become active. Likewise they will do >> that in the refrigerator at those temperatures and will be too active when >> grafting reducing the success rate. Store cherry scion wood as close to the >> freezing temperature as you can to keep it fully dormant. My scion storage >> refrigerator has been modified and it will actually frost in the bottom >> where the coldest air settles and a little frost will not hurt a fully >> dormant piece of scion wood. At least I have never detected damage to scion >> wood that has been lightly frosted. I would not stored in a deep-freeze >> where the temperature can get down to near 0 because if any activity had >> begun in the scion wood, the cells filling with water, the cells could >> burst damaging the wood. >> >> I have often grafted using the splice graft or machine graft and pulled >> the rubber band as tight as I can. You would think it could constrict the >> activity but certainly in persimmon and pawpaw I've not seen a problem. It >> will girdle the graft sooner because there is less elasticity left for >> expansion. As soon as the graft has calloused and begun growth simply cut >> the rubber band in one or 2 places and there is no need to remove it as now >> the expanding calloused area is not restricted. Again I cover the entire >> scion wood starting below the graph point with Parafilm, no need to fool >> around with wax or anything else. Simply expand (stretch it out >> approximately double length) the Parafilm start below the graft union keep >> wrapping all the way up and pitch it off above the scion or continue back >> down until you run out of Parafilm. Anything that I have ever grafted >> pushes right through it, and I've made many many grafts of many species. >> >> In my opinion wrapping tightly is important. I believe the 2 cambium >> layers must be pulled and held together in order to callous, especially in >> hardwood such as nut trees which would include harder wood of the plum >> family. Plum wood is much more dense than cherry. I've had people tell me >> they have successfully grafted using masking tape to hold the understock >> and scion together and I have no doubt that can work. But I firmly believe >> to increase your success percentage, wrap the graft union tight. Jerry >> >> A persimmon button pushing through Parafilm. >> >> As IBIBLIO often sees pictures as spam ( numerous times I've been removed >> from the list for sending pictures) and IBIBLIO doesn't include the sender >> I have no way of knowing if this was passed through and if I'm still >> allowed on the net. Would someone let me know via direct email that the >> picture came through. >> > __________________ > nafex mailing list > nafex at lists.ibiblio.org > Northamerican Allied Fruit Experimenters > subscribe/unsubscribe|user config|list info: > http://lists.ibiblio.org/mailman/listinfo/nafex From lpittman at murraystate.edu Wed Mar 23 20:31:24 2016 From: lpittman at murraystate.edu (Louis Pittman) Date: Wed, 23 Mar 2016 19:31:24 -0500 Subject: [nafex] Plum Grafting / Budding In-Reply-To: <6F3F8941-69AC-4941-9F26-C99E40E93EE3@ginda.us> References: <20160322205527.86AC5E9D@m0087797.ppops.net> <56F28AF3.1030708@gmail.com> <6F3F8941-69AC-4941-9F26-C99E40E93EE3@ginda.us> Message-ID: Only real issue I've ever encountered in grafting plums is keeping the scionwood dormant in the refrigerator, long enough for the rootstock to get growing well and bark slipping. I've only ever bothered grafting the 'Guthrie' selection of P.angustifolia onto native P.angustifolia understock - and my scions are usually quite small-caliper. Bark grafts, overwrapped (union and scion in its entirety) with Parafilm, then the graft union overwrapped with a rubber band... as tight as I can pull it - and I'll often overwrap the rubber band with one layer of masking tape to slow UV degradation of the rubber. Lucky On Wed, Mar 23, 2016 at 7:16 PM, Ginda Fisher wrote: > Very odd. I got no attachment/photo with the original post, but did get a > photo with this one. > > On Mar 23, 2016, at 10:11 AM, Peter Chrisbacher wrote: > > > Jerry - > > > > Yes, the photo came through and is very helpful. > > > > Again, thank you so much for your knowledge and assistance! I am also of > > the opinion that tight wrapping is best, at least with the apples and > pears > > with which I have the most practice/experience. In my opinion, my plum > > grafts are wrapped sufficiently tightly; they're just not as tight as I > > would have wrapped an apple or pear, as I was concerned my usual > > super-tight wrapping last year might have been part of the cause of last > > year's plum graft failures ;) > > > > Your explanation of how to properly use parafilm should also be extremely > > helpful for others who may be new to using it. Crazing (the technical > term > > for polymer chain alignment during elongation, if I'm correctly > remembering > > my schooling) is a necessary ingredient in parafilm's proper use, and is > > one of those things you have to have someone explain or show you! > > > > -Pete > > > > > > Pete Chrisbacher > > > > On Wed, Mar 23, 2016 at 8:24 AM, Jerry Lehman > > wrote: > > > >> On 3/23/2016 7:36 AM, Peter Chrisbacher wrote: > >> > >> Thank you both, gentlemen, for your helpful advice! I've heard > >> anecdotally that grafting plums is possible (and one of the guys at the > >> BYFG grafting meeting told me "ALL my plum grafts took last year! I > just > >> did normal grafts!" without providing any helpful details). > >> > >> I grafted three last night (splice) on actively growing 1 YO in-ground > >> rootstock with dime-size leaves. Most of the leaves were high up the > >> leader, so they ended up getting cut off. I'm assuming (hoping) the > roots > >> will just continue pushing into the scion now if my grafts are any > good. I > >> wrapped tightly but not excessively with a budding rubber, then > parafilm, > >> including a single-wrap covering of the lowest scion bud to keep it from > >> drying out (2 buds on each scion). Tree-cote to seal the exposed scion > cut. > >> > >> Pete, > >> > >> Thank you Fluffy for your concurrence. Let me add 2 more " by the ways," > >> and an observation. > >> > >> Storing cherry scion's in a normal refrigeration for any length of time > >> can lead to a problem. 40? to 45? is too warm, it approximates the > outdoor > >> temperature when cherry flower buds become active. Likewise they will do > >> that in the refrigerator at those temperatures and will be too active > when > >> grafting reducing the success rate. Store cherry scion wood as close to > the > >> freezing temperature as you can to keep it fully dormant. My scion > storage > >> refrigerator has been modified and it will actually frost in the bottom > >> where the coldest air settles and a little frost will not hurt a fully > >> dormant piece of scion wood. At least I have never detected damage to > scion > >> wood that has been lightly frosted. I would not stored in a deep-freeze > >> where the temperature can get down to near 0 because if any activity had > >> begun in the scion wood, the cells filling with water, the cells could > >> burst damaging the wood. > >> > >> I have often grafted using the splice graft or machine graft and pulled > >> the rubber band as tight as I can. You would think it could constrict > the > >> activity but certainly in persimmon and pawpaw I've not seen a problem. > It > >> will girdle the graft sooner because there is less elasticity left for > >> expansion. As soon as the graft has calloused and begun growth simply > cut > >> the rubber band in one or 2 places and there is no need to remove it as > now > >> the expanding calloused area is not restricted. Again I cover the entire > >> scion wood starting below the graph point with Parafilm, no need to fool > >> around with wax or anything else. Simply expand (stretch it out > >> approximately double length) the Parafilm start below the graft union > keep > >> wrapping all the way up and pitch it off above the scion or continue > back > >> down until you run out of Parafilm. Anything that I have ever grafted > >> pushes right through it, and I've made many many grafts of many species. > >> > >> In my opinion wrapping tightly is important. I believe the 2 cambium > >> layers must be pulled and held together in order to callous, especially > in > >> hardwood such as nut trees which would include harder wood of the plum > >> family. Plum wood is much more dense than cherry. I've had people tell > me > >> they have successfully grafted using masking tape to hold the understock > >> and scion together and I have no doubt that can work. But I firmly > believe > >> to increase your success percentage, wrap the graft union tight. > Jerry > >> > >> A persimmon button pushing through Parafilm. > >> > >> As IBIBLIO often sees pictures as spam ( numerous times I've been > removed > >> from the list for sending pictures) and IBIBLIO doesn't include the > sender > >> I have no way of knowing if this was passed through and if I'm still > >> allowed on the net. Would someone let me know via direct email that the > >> picture came through. > >> > > __________________ > > nafex mailing list > > nafex at lists.ibiblio.org > > Northamerican Allied Fruit Experimenters > > subscribe/unsubscribe|user config|list info: > > http://lists.ibiblio.org/mailman/listinfo/nafex > > __________________ > nafex mailing list > nafex at lists.ibiblio.org > Northamerican Allied Fruit Experimenters > subscribe/unsubscribe|user config|list info: > http://lists.ibiblio.org/mailman/listinfo/nafex > From fuwafuwausagi at muchomail.com Thu Mar 24 02:27:28 2016 From: fuwafuwausagi at muchomail.com (fuwa fuwa usagi) Date: Wed, 23 Mar 2016 23:27:28 -0700 Subject: [nafex] Plum Grafting / Budding Message-ID: <20160323232728.5CE7B848@m0087792.ppops.net> I did not see the photos either. --- list at ginda.us wrote: From: Ginda Fisher To: mailing list at ibiblio - Northamerican Allied Fruit Experimenters Subject: Re: [nafex] Plum Grafting / Budding Date: Wed, 23 Mar 2016 20:16:24 -0400 Very odd. I got no attachment/photo with the original post, but did get a photo with this one. On Mar 23, 2016, at 10:11 AM, Peter Chrisbacher wrote: > Jerry - > > Yes, the photo came through and is very helpful. > > Again, thank you so much for your knowledge and assistance! I am also of > the opinion that tight wrapping is best, at least with the apples and pears > with which I have the most practice/experience. In my opinion, my plum > grafts are wrapped sufficiently tightly; they're just not as tight as I > would have wrapped an apple or pear, as I was concerned my usual > super-tight wrapping last year might have been part of the cause of last > year's plum graft failures ;) > > Your explanation of how to properly use parafilm should also be extremely > helpful for others who may be new to using it. Crazing (the technical term > for polymer chain alignment during elongation, if I'm correctly remembering > my schooling) is a necessary ingredient in parafilm's proper use, and is > one of those things you have to have someone explain or show you! > > -Pete > > > Pete Chrisbacher > > On Wed, Mar 23, 2016 at 8:24 AM, Jerry Lehman > wrote: > >> On 3/23/2016 7:36 AM, Peter Chrisbacher wrote: >> >> Thank you both, gentlemen, for your helpful advice! I've heard >> anecdotally that grafting plums is possible (and one of the guys at the >> BYFG grafting meeting told me "ALL my plum grafts took last year! I just >> did normal grafts!" without providing any helpful details). >> >> I grafted three last night (splice) on actively growing 1 YO in-ground >> rootstock with dime-size leaves. Most of the leaves were high up the >> leader, so they ended up getting cut off. I'm assuming (hoping) the roots >> will just continue pushing into the scion now if my grafts are any good. I >> wrapped tightly but not excessively with a budding rubber, then parafilm, >> including a single-wrap covering of the lowest scion bud to keep it from >> drying out (2 buds on each scion). Tree-cote to seal the exposed scion cut. >> >> Pete, >> >> Thank you Fluffy for your concurrence. Let me add 2 more " by the ways," >> and an observation. >> >> Storing cherry scion's in a normal refrigeration for any length of time >> can lead to a problem. 40? to 45? is too warm, it approximates the outdoor >> temperature when cherry flower buds become active. Likewise they will do >> that in the refrigerator at those temperatures and will be too active when >> grafting reducing the success rate. Store cherry scion wood as close to the >> freezing temperature as you can to keep it fully dormant. My scion storage >> refrigerator has been modified and it will actually frost in the bottom >> where the coldest air settles and a little frost will not hurt a fully >> dormant piece of scion wood. At least I have never detected damage to scion >> wood that has been lightly frosted. I would not stored in a deep-freeze >> where the temperature can get down to near 0 because if any activity had >> begun in the scion wood, the cells filling with water, the cells could >> burst damaging the wood. >> >> I have often grafted using the splice graft or machine graft and pulled >> the rubber band as tight as I can. You would think it could constrict the >> activity but certainly in persimmon and pawpaw I've not seen a problem. It >> will girdle the graft sooner because there is less elasticity left for >> expansion. As soon as the graft has calloused and begun growth simply cut >> the rubber band in one or 2 places and there is no need to remove it as now >> the expanding calloused area is not restricted. Again I cover the entire >> scion wood starting below the graph point with Parafilm, no need to fool >> around with wax or anything else. Simply expand (stretch it out >> approximately double length) the Parafilm start below the graft union keep >> wrapping all the way up and pitch it off above the scion or continue back >> down until you run out of Parafilm. Anything that I have ever grafted >> pushes right through it, and I've made many many grafts of many species. >> >> In my opinion wrapping tightly is important. I believe the 2 cambium >> layers must be pulled and held together in order to callous, especially in >> hardwood such as nut trees which would include harder wood of the plum >> family. Plum wood is much more dense than cherry. I've had people tell me >> they have successfully grafted using masking tape to hold the understock >> and scion together and I have no doubt that can work. But I firmly believe >> to increase your success percentage, wrap the graft union tight. Jerry >> >> A persimmon button pushing through Parafilm. >> >> As IBIBLIO often sees pictures as spam ( numerous times I've been removed >> from the list for sending pictures) and IBIBLIO doesn't include the sender >> I have no way of knowing if this was passed through and if I'm still >> allowed on the net. Would someone let me know via direct email that the >> picture came through. >> > __________________ > nafex mailing list > nafex at lists.ibiblio.org > Northamerican Allied Fruit Experimenters > subscribe/unsubscribe|user config|list info: > http://lists.ibiblio.org/mailman/listinfo/nafex __________________ nafex mailing list nafex at lists.ibiblio.org Northamerican Allied Fruit Experimenters subscribe/unsubscribe|user config|list info: http://lists.ibiblio.org/mailman/listinfo/nafex _____________________________________________________________ The Free Email with so much more! =====> http://www.MuchoMail.com <===== From hwpark at kahres.org Thu Mar 24 08:01:45 2016 From: hwpark at kahres.org (Hank Parker) Date: Thu, 24 Mar 2016 08:01:45 -0400 Subject: [nafex] Photo came thru fro Peter Chrisbacher In-Reply-To: <20160323232728.5CE7B848@m0087792.ppops.net> References: <20160323232728.5CE7B848@m0087792.ppops.net> Message-ID: thanks for photo Hank Parker Maple syrup makers never die, They just evaporate! > On Mar 24, 2016, at 2:27 AM, fuwa fuwa usagi wrote: > > I did not see the photos either. > > --- list at ginda.us wrote: > > From: Ginda Fisher > To: mailing list at ibiblio - Northamerican Allied Fruit Experimenters > Subject: Re: [nafex] Plum Grafting / Budding > Date: Wed, 23 Mar 2016 20:16:24 -0400 > > Very odd. I got no attachment/photo with the original post, but did get a photo with this one. > > On Mar 23, 2016, at 10:11 AM, Peter Chrisbacher wrote: > >> Jerry - >> >> Yes, the photo came through and is very helpful. >> >> Again, thank you so much for your knowledge and assistance! I am also of >> the opinion that tight wrapping is best, at least with the apples and pears >> with which I have the most practice/experience. In my opinion, my plum >> grafts are wrapped sufficiently tightly; they're just not as tight as I >> would have wrapped an apple or pear, as I was concerned my usual >> super-tight wrapping last year might have been part of the cause of last >> year's plum graft failures ;) >> >> Your explanation of how to properly use parafilm should also be extremely >> helpful for others who may be new to using it. Crazing (the technical term >> for polymer chain alignment during elongation, if I'm correctly remembering >> my schooling) is a necessary ingredient in parafilm's proper use, and is >> one of those things you have to have someone explain or show you! >> >> -Pete >> >> >> Pete Chrisbacher >> >> On Wed, Mar 23, 2016 at 8:24 AM, Jerry Lehman >> wrote: >> >>> On 3/23/2016 7:36 AM, Peter Chrisbacher wrote: >>> >>> Thank you both, gentlemen, for your helpful advice! I've heard >>> anecdotally that grafting plums is possible (and one of the guys at the >>> BYFG grafting meeting told me "ALL my plum grafts took last year! I just >>> did normal grafts!" without providing any helpful details). >>> >>> I grafted three last night (splice) on actively growing 1 YO in-ground >>> rootstock with dime-size leaves. Most of the leaves were high up the >>> leader, so they ended up getting cut off. I'm assuming (hoping) the roots >>> will just continue pushing into the scion now if my grafts are any good. I >>> wrapped tightly but not excessively with a budding rubber, then parafilm, >>> including a single-wrap covering of the lowest scion bud to keep it from >>> drying out (2 buds on each scion). Tree-cote to seal the exposed scion cut. >>> >>> Pete, >>> >>> Thank you Fluffy for your concurrence. Let me add 2 more " by the ways," >>> and an observation. >>> >>> Storing cherry scion's in a normal refrigeration for any length of time >>> can lead to a problem. 40? to 45? is too warm, it approximates the outdoor >>> temperature when cherry flower buds become active. Likewise they will do >>> that in the refrigerator at those temperatures and will be too active when >>> grafting reducing the success rate. Store cherry scion wood as close to the >>> freezing temperature as you can to keep it fully dormant. My scion storage >>> refrigerator has been modified and it will actually frost in the bottom >>> where the coldest air settles and a little frost will not hurt a fully >>> dormant piece of scion wood. At least I have never detected damage to scion >>> wood that has been lightly frosted. I would not stored in a deep-freeze >>> where the temperature can get down to near 0 because if any activity had >>> begun in the scion wood, the cells filling with water, the cells could >>> burst damaging the wood. >>> >>> I have often grafted using the splice graft or machine graft and pulled >>> the rubber band as tight as I can. You would think it could constrict the >>> activity but certainly in persimmon and pawpaw I've not seen a problem. It >>> will girdle the graft sooner because there is less elasticity left for >>> expansion. As soon as the graft has calloused and begun growth simply cut >>> the rubber band in one or 2 places and there is no need to remove it as now >>> the expanding calloused area is not restricted. Again I cover the entire >>> scion wood starting below the graph point with Parafilm, no need to fool >>> around with wax or anything else. Simply expand (stretch it out >>> approximately double length) the Parafilm start below the graft union keep >>> wrapping all the way up and pitch it off above the scion or continue back >>> down until you run out of Parafilm. Anything that I have ever grafted >>> pushes right through it, and I've made many many grafts of many species. >>> >>> In my opinion wrapping tightly is important. I believe the 2 cambium >>> layers must be pulled and held together in order to callous, especially in >>> hardwood such as nut trees which would include harder wood of the plum >>> family. Plum wood is much more dense than cherry. I've had people tell me >>> they have successfully grafted using masking tape to hold the understock >>> and scion together and I have no doubt that can work. But I firmly believe >>> to increase your success percentage, wrap the graft union tight. Jerry >>> >>> A persimmon button pushing through Parafilm. >>> >>> As IBIBLIO often sees pictures as spam ( numerous times I've been removed >>> from the list for sending pictures) and IBIBLIO doesn't include the sender >>> I have no way of knowing if this was passed through and if I'm still >>> allowed on the net. Would someone let me know via direct email that the >>> picture came through. >>> >> __________________ >> nafex mailing list >> nafex at lists.ibiblio.org >> Northamerican Allied Fruit Experimenters >> subscribe/unsubscribe|user config|list info: >> http://lists.ibiblio.org/mailman/listinfo/nafex > > __________________ > nafex mailing list > nafex at lists.ibiblio.org > Northamerican Allied Fruit Experimenters > subscribe/unsubscribe|user config|list info: > http://lists.ibiblio.org/mailman/listinfo/nafex > > > > > _____________________________________________________________ > The Free Email with so much more! > =====> http://www.MuchoMail.com <===== > __________________ > nafex mailing list > nafex at lists.ibiblio.org > Northamerican Allied Fruit Experimenters > subscribe/unsubscribe|user config|list info: > http://lists.ibiblio.org/mailman/listinfo/nafex From organic87 at frontiernet.net Thu Mar 24 09:05:57 2016 From: organic87 at frontiernet.net (Road's End Farm) Date: Thu, 24 Mar 2016 09:05:57 -0400 Subject: [nafex] Plum Grafting / Budding In-Reply-To: <20160323232728.5CE7B848@m0087792.ppops.net> References: <20160323232728.5CE7B848@m0087792.ppops.net> Message-ID: <57335A24-4E68-4E02-9B35-9E8943871851@frontiernet.net> On Mar 24, 2016, at 2:27 AM, fuwa fuwa usagi wrote: > I did not see the photos either. I have not seen photos with any of the emails in this thread; though some of them have included the line >>> A persimmon button pushing through Parafilm. which I took to be possibly the title of the photo. -- Rivka; Finger Lakes NY, Zone 6A now I think Fresh-market organic produce, small scale From leeareich at gmail.com Fri Mar 25 03:10:24 2016 From: leeareich at gmail.com (Lee Reich) Date: Fri, 25 Mar 2016 03:10:24 -0400 Subject: [nafex] Fruit Propagation Workshop, fee, central Virginia, 2 April In-Reply-To: <8e0622cb8744a0275998fadcf6ca6821@becon.org> References: <56F14F89.7080903@conev.org> <8e0622cb8744a0275998fadcf6ca6821@becon.org> Message-ID: <38CBFB88-2F55-4FC0-9808-B6D1C36421FB@leereich.com> Here?s another grafting workshop taking place. I am connected, in this case. Lee Reich, PhD Come visit my farmden at http://www.leereich.com/blog http://leereich.com/ Books by Lee Reich: A Northeast Gardener's Year The Pruning Book Weedless Gardening Uncommon Fruits for Every Garden Landscaping with Fruit Grow Fruit Naturally > On Mar 22, 2016, at 10:48 AM, dwoodard at becon.org wrote: > > See flyer at > > I'm not connected in any way except that I know (as an internet acquaintance and a writer) > and admire the person giving the workshop, Alexis Zeigler. He is especially > interested in less conventional species which are low-maintenance in Virginia and nearby states. > > You can learn about his other activities at > > http://www.livingenergyfarm.org > > and > > http://conev.org > > (54-page book on fruit readable on the conev website). > > Doug Woodard > St. Catharines, Ontario > > __________________ > nafex mailing list > nafex at lists.ibiblio.org > Northamerican Allied Fruit Experimenters > subscribe/unsubscribe|user config|list info: > http://lists.ibiblio.org/mailman/listinfo/nafex From jwlehmantree at gmail.com Fri Mar 25 08:21:35 2016 From: jwlehmantree at gmail.com (Jerry Lehman) Date: Fri, 25 Mar 2016 08:21:35 -0400 Subject: [nafex] Krymsk Rootstock Breeder Gennadiy Eremin In-Reply-To: <20160322205000.86AC5EB1@m0087797.ppops.net> References: <20160322205000.86AC5EB1@m0087797.ppops.net> Message-ID: <56F52D4F.2020005@gmail.com> On 3/22/2016 11:50 PM, fuwa fuwa usagi wrote: > Krymsk 1 was bred by Gennadiy Ereman of Krymsk Russia and the original designator > which was a breeder cultivar number was changed to the Krymsk series for the US markets. Hello Everyone, While looking for another photo this one was found and after just having discussed the Krymsk 1 rootstock I thought you all would like to see a picture of Gennadiy. this was taken in 2012 upon my visit to Russia and Ukraine. Gennadiy is in his late 80s and was in excellent health at that time. With him is his son Victor and they are standing in a peach rootstock test plot. Gennadiy has devoted his entire life to Prunus rootstock breeding and spent many years traveling throughout the former Soviet Union collecting all the Prunus species he could. Back then due to financial problems within the Soviet Union (socialism doesn't work) they traveled on foot and spent the nights camped out. His young son Victor often accompanied him along with a few other employees at the Krymsk breeding Station. In 1991 on the NAFEX/VIR exchange agreement we visited his breeding orchard where we saw many of those Prunus species. In his office he had pictures of world-famous fruit breeders, including Luther Burbank. Gennadiy was the director of the Krymsk breeding Station for many years. After Gennadiy retired the position of director it was passed on to 2 others. And as I understand it after their resignations Victor became director with the guidance of his father and today remains the director. He has followed his father's footsteps and is a peach breeder at the station and his wife is the sweet cherry breeder. When we visited in 1991 the breeding orchard contained 6,000 Myrobalan plum and rootstock trial varieties. I took with us a top-of-the-line Sony VHS camcorder and to put together a report for the annual meeting, but it'd videos takes lots of time. Jerry From lfljvenaura at gmail.com Fri Mar 25 09:34:46 2016 From: lfljvenaura at gmail.com (Lawrence London) Date: Fri, 25 Mar 2016 09:34:46 -0400 Subject: [nafex] Krymsk Rootstock Breeder Gennadiy Eremin In-Reply-To: <56F52D4F.2020005@gmail.com> References: <20160322205000.86AC5EB1@m0087797.ppops.net> <56F52D4F.2020005@gmail.com> Message-ID: On Fri, Mar 25, 2016 at 8:21 AM, Jerry Lehman wrote: > I thought you all would like to see a picture of Gennadiy. this was taken > in 2012 upon my visit to Russia and Ukraine. No image accompanied your post, Jerry. With Gmail you can easily include an image in an email message either inline (inserted directly into text) or as an attachment, viewable by clicking on its thumbnail at bottom of message. I have configured the nafex list to allow messages 20 megabytes total size for distribution to subscribers. This allows a large image to be included in any message. LL -- Lawrence F. London lfljvenaura at gmail.com https://sites.google.com/site/avantgeared/ From lfljvenaura at gmail.com Fri Mar 25 09:41:54 2016 From: lfljvenaura at gmail.com (Lawrence London) Date: Fri, 25 Mar 2016 09:41:54 -0400 Subject: [nafex] Example of including an image in an email message to list: Plum - Kuban Burgandy - My Edible Landscape Message-ID: [I use Gmail and simply highlighted this image in the website, copied the image file and pasted it into my message to the list, as you see below.] Plum - Kuban Burgandy - My Edible Landscape http://edible.wikidot.com/edible-plant:91 [image: Image Unavailable] Raintree Nursery imported this variety from Abkhazia where it was developed near the Kuban River valley. It was imported to the US with the help of Gennady Eremin at the Krymsk Research Station in southern Russia. This variety was tested for years at the Mt. Vernon fruit research station north of Seattle, and it performed well. The red plums have blood-red flesh with hints of bing cherry taste. The fruit is hard to spot in the tree because it is almost the same color as the leaves. It is pollinated by Japanese-type plums. Raintree no longer sells this variety. Kuban Burgandy was developed from the cross Satsuma x Myrobalan (Prunus cerasifera). Satsuma is a Japanese plum Introduced in 1889 by Luther Burbank. The story of Satsuma Plum is found below. Luther Burbank's own words on Satsuma Plum as recalled in 1914: "Browsing among the books of the Mercantile Library in San Francisco, I had chanced to come upon an account of the wanderings in Japan of an American sailor, and what particularly held my attention was his mention of a red-fleshed plum of exceptional quality that he had seen and eaten in the Province of Satsuma in southern Japan. That red-fleshed plum appealed to me, and I determined to secure a specimen of it for my own orchards. The sailor reported in his book that he had seen a single plum tree bearing this "blood-plum of Satsuma." But of course the rarity of the fruit made it the more alluring. So in due course when I came to make importations of native seeds, plants, and bulbs from Japan, I urged Mr. Isaac Bunting, an English bulb dealer in Yokohama who collected these for me, to visit the southern part ol that country and make a par- ticular effort to procure with others some of the red-fleshed plums. Mr. Bunting complied with my request, but, vastly to my disappointment, the first lot of young trees he shipped to me arrived (Nov. 5, 1884) in such condition that I despaired of doing anything with them. I immediately sent a request for another shipment, and gave definite instructions as to packing. A little over a year later, on Dec. 20, 1885, there arrived the twelve seedlings to which I have already referred. And this time, to my great satisfaction, the tiny trees w r ere found in good condition. Among the twelve seedlings was a representative of the race about which the sailor had written and about which I had read with such interest years before in the San Francisco Library. This was, in short, a plum with red flesh, something hitherto unknown among the plums of Europe or America. Red flesh in a plum is a character so conspicuous that it is not likely to escape attention even of the least observing. And my red plum had other qualities that made it well worthy of introduction. It first came into bearing in 1887, and two years later it was introduced under the name of Satsuma the name being suggested, as was that of its companion the Burbank, by Professor H. E. Van Deman." From lfljvenaura at gmail.com Fri Mar 25 09:47:07 2016 From: lfljvenaura at gmail.com (Lawrence London) Date: Fri, 25 Mar 2016 09:47:07 -0400 Subject: [nafex] Example of including an image in an email message to list: Plum - Kuban Burgandy - My Edible Landscape In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On Fri, Mar 25, 2016 at 9:41 AM, Lawrence London wrote: > [I use Gmail and simply highlighted this image in the website, copied the > image file and pasted it into my message to the list, as you see below.] > > Plum - Kuban Burgandy - My Edible Landscape > http://edible.wikidot.com/edible-plant:91 > The image did not appear in the nafex message archives so I am trying a different method. Inline image sourced from my computer: ? And attached: -- Lawrence F. London lfljvenaura at gmail.com https://sites.google.com/site/avantgeared/ -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: KubanBurgundyPlum.jpg Type: image/jpeg Size: 101639 bytes Desc: not available URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: KubanBurgundyPlum.jpg Type: image/jpeg Size: 101639 bytes Desc: not available URL: From lfljvenaura at gmail.com Fri Mar 25 09:51:25 2016 From: lfljvenaura at gmail.com (Lawrence London) Date: Fri, 25 Mar 2016 09:51:25 -0400 Subject: [nafex] Example of including an image in an email message to list: Plum - Kuban Burgandy - My Edible Landscape In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On Fri, Mar 25, 2016 at 9:47 AM, Lawrence London wrote: > On Fri, Mar 25, 2016 at 9:41 AM, Lawrence London > wrote: > >> [I use Gmail and simply highlighted this image in the website, copied the >> image file and pasted it into my message to the list, as you see below.] >> >> Plum - Kuban Burgandy - My Edible Landscape >> http://edible.wikidot.com/edible-plant:91 >> > > The image did not appear in the nafex message archives so I am trying a > different method. > > Inline image sourced from my computer: > This worked. The image appears twice in the message. I uploaded the picture of the plum from storage on my computer hard drive as inline and attached. http://lists.ibiblio.org/pipermail/nafex/2016-March/049919.html -- Lawrence F. London lfljvenaura at gmail.com https://sites.google.com/site/avantgeared/ From organic87 at frontiernet.net Fri Mar 25 10:20:55 2016 From: organic87 at frontiernet.net (Road's End Farm) Date: Fri, 25 Mar 2016 10:20:55 -0400 Subject: [nafex] Example of including an image in an email message to list: Plum - Kuban Burgandy - My Edible Landscape In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <505D5889-67A5-4D5E-B5DC-C0B7E5850C04@frontiernet.net> On Mar 25, 2016, at 9:47 AM, Lawrence London wrote: >> > > The image did not appear in the nafex message archives so I am trying a > different method. > > Inline image sourced from my computer: > > ? > And attached: > > I see the second one but not the first. -- Rivka; Finger Lakes NY, Zone 6A now I think Fresh-market organic produce, small scale From lfljvenaura at gmail.com Fri Mar 25 10:28:56 2016 From: lfljvenaura at gmail.com (Lawrence London) Date: Fri, 25 Mar 2016 10:28:56 -0400 Subject: [nafex] Example of including an image in an email message to list: Plum - Kuban Burgandy - My Edible Landscape In-Reply-To: <505D5889-67A5-4D5E-B5DC-C0B7E5850C04@frontiernet.net> References: <505D5889-67A5-4D5E-B5DC-C0B7E5850C04@frontiernet.net> Message-ID: On Fri, Mar 25, 2016 at 10:20 AM, Road's End Farm wrote: > I see the second one but not the first. > I see now that the cut and paste into message from an image online does not work with this list. It does with most non list email I send. Thanks for the feedback. LL -- Lawrence F. London lfljvenaura at gmail.com https://sites.google.com/site/avantgeared/ From jwlehmantree at gmail.com Fri Mar 25 11:00:56 2016 From: jwlehmantree at gmail.com (Jerry Lehman) Date: Fri, 25 Mar 2016 11:00:56 -0400 Subject: [nafex] Example of including an image in an email message to list: Plum - Kuban Burgandy - My Edible Landscape In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <56F552A8.9090304@gmail.com> On 3/25/2016 9:41 AM, Lawrence London wrote: > [I use Gmail and simply highlighted this image in the website, copied the > image file and pasted it into my message to the list, as you see below.] > > Plum - Kuban Burgandy - My Edible Landscape > http://edible.wikidot.com/edible-plant:91 > > [image: Image Unavailable] LL, The message I got says the image is unavailable. Jerry From jwlehmantree at gmail.com Fri Mar 25 11:01:57 2016 From: jwlehmantree at gmail.com (Jerry Lehman) Date: Fri, 25 Mar 2016 11:01:57 -0400 Subject: [nafex] Example of including an image in an email message to list: Plum - Kuban Burgandy - My Edible Landscape In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <56F552E5.1000708@gmail.com> On 3/25/2016 9:47 AM, Lawrence London wrote: > On Fri, Mar 25, 2016 at 9:41 AM, Lawrence London > wrote: > >> [I use Gmail and simply highlighted this image in the website, copied the >> image file and pasted it into my message to the list, as you see below.] >> >> Plum - Kuban Burgandy - My Edible Landscape >> http://edible.wikidot.com/edible-plant:91 >> > The image did not appear in the nafex message archives so I am trying a > different method. > > Inline image sourced from my computer: > > ? > And attached: > > > > > > __________________ > nafex mailing list > nafex at lists.ibiblio.org > Northamerican Allied Fruit Experimenters > subscribe/unsubscribe|user config|list info: > http://lists.ibiblio.org/mailman/listinfo/nafex the plum picture came through embedded as well as attached. From jwlehmantree at gmail.com Fri Mar 25 11:39:43 2016 From: jwlehmantree at gmail.com (Jerry Lehman) Date: Fri, 25 Mar 2016 11:39:43 -0400 Subject: [nafex] Gennadiy's picture Message-ID: <56F55BBF.4040906@gmail.com> Hello Everyone, I really appreciate that Lawrence is working with us and is keeping a close eye on the net. When I write emails I use Mozilla Foxfire then when I send it goes to Gmail and then they forward to ibiblio. I went to attach that picture and got the following message from Mozilla Foxfire, "Many email servers do not accept messages with large file attachments. The file size restriction varies depending on the mail server configuration. While you might be able to send a message with a large attachment, the receiving mail server might refuse to accept a message with a large attachment. This is all beyond the control of Thunderbird". The file size of that picture was 1.38 MB so I opened it with _Picture It_ software and compressed it reducing the size to 25 kB, that's quite a reduction. I hope the picture quality and definition is acceptable, we shall see. On the last send of the picture some of you reported you did receive it some of you didn't which tells me, after thinking about it, that Gmail is passing it on and IBIBLIO is passing it on and the problem is in servers after ibiblio. Will those of you that reported not receiving it please let me know if you received the smaller size and received the attachment. Then I will have learned that in the future I need to compress pictures before I send them and shame on me for not having learned this before. I guess some folks are slow learners. :-) I've embed the picture again from the 25 kB size and also attach it and lets see what happens. So again the picture is of Gennadiy Eremin and his son Victor taken in Krymsk, Russia at the Krymsk breeding Station in their peach test plot. Jerry L -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: Krymsk 1 small .JPG Type: image/jpeg Size: 25631 bytes Desc: not available URL: From bluestem_farm at juno.com Fri Mar 25 11:52:47 2016 From: bluestem_farm at juno.com (Scott Weber and Muffy Barrett) Date: Fri, 25 Mar 2016 15:52:47 GMT Subject: [nafex] Gennadiy's picture Message-ID: <20160325.105247.27484.1@webmail02.dca.untd.com> Got it, Jerry. ---------- Original Message ---------- Hello Everyone, I really appreciate that Lawrence is working with us and is keeping a close eye on the net. When I write emails I use Mozilla Foxfire then when I send it goes to Gmail and then they forward to ibiblio. I went to attach that picture and got the following message from Mozilla Foxfire, "Many email servers do not accept messages with large file attachments. The file size restriction varies depending on the mail server configuration. While you might be able to send a message with a large attachment, the receiving mail server might refuse to accept a message with a large attachment. This is all beyond the control of Thunderbird". The file size of that picture was 1.38 MB so I opened it with _Picture It_ software and compressed it reducing the size to 25 kB, that's quite a reduction. I hope the picture quality and definition is acceptable, we shall see. On the last send of the picture some of you reported you did receive it some of you didn't which tells me, after thinking about it, that Gmail is passing it on and IBIBLIO is passing it on and the problem is in servers after ibiblio. Will those of you that reported not receiving it please let me know if you received the smaller size and received the attachment. Then I will have learned that in the future I need to compress pictures before I send them and shame on me for not having learned this before. I guess some folks are slow learners. :-) I've embed the picture again from the 25 kB size and also attach it and lets see what happens. So again the picture is of Gennadiy Eremin and his son Victor taken in Krymsk, Russia at the Krymsk breeding Station in their peach test plot. Jerry L ____________________________________________________________ Wall Street Daily Peter Schiff: China Just Armed its Financial Missile http://thirdpartyoffers.juno.com/TGL3131/56f55f1a5172d5f1a4f87st02duc From nathan.b.c.wilson at gmail.com Fri Mar 25 12:11:29 2016 From: nathan.b.c.wilson at gmail.com (Nathan Wilson) Date: Fri, 25 Mar 2016 12:11:29 -0400 Subject: [nafex] Morus Nigra Chilling Requirements, Etc Message-ID: Hi everyone, What are the chilling requirements of morus nigra? 1. Minimum chilling hours needed to ensure fruit set the next year. 2. Maximum temperature that 'counts' as chilling hours. 3. What conditions trigger the plants to break dormancy? 4. What are the lowest short-term and long-term temperatures the plant will survive? Background information: As mentioned in a previous post, I'm in zone 5/6 and have morus nigra in 87 litre (23 U.S. gal) pots. I'm weighing my options: A. Bury the plants in winter, just like some people do with figs. I'm not sure if morus nigra is hardy enough for this. B. Put the plants in an unheated, detached garage over winter. I think it would get far too cold in January and February and would kill the plants, although I haven't documented temperatures yet. C. Leave the plants outside until around Christmas to satisfy chilling requirements, then put them in a cool basement, which is presently 12 deg C (54 deg F), and hope the plants don't break dormancy before I can bring them back outside. D. Greenhouse: I have a mekeshift greenhouse setup in my cellar door stairway. The temperature fluctuates, but I can control it to a point. The benefit of having the plants in the greenhouse is that I think it could reduce the number of years it takes the plants to bear, by making them slightly healthier and more vigorous (this was pointed out by Lee Reich). But, perhaps I can't have my cake and eat it too. Any input or experiences would be appreciated. -Nathan From pxbacher at gmail.com Fri Mar 25 12:11:34 2016 From: pxbacher at gmail.com (Peter Chrisbacher) Date: Fri, 25 Mar 2016 12:11:34 -0400 Subject: [nafex] Gennadiy's picture In-Reply-To: <20160325.105247.27484.1@webmail02.dca.untd.com> References: <20160325.105247.27484.1@webmail02.dca.untd.com> Message-ID: Hi Jerry - I received the "ATTACHED" small photo in your email quoted below. I did not see/receive an embedded photo. I have not received the high-quality photo at all. I do not believe it is GMail that is filtering out the photo on MY end, as I often email myself fairly large photos, and as I understand it, GMail's attachment size limit is 25MB. I hope that helps, but I suspect it may actually make things more confusing... :-\ -Pete Pete Chrisbacher On Fri, Mar 25, 2016 at 11:52 AM, Scott Weber and Muffy Barrett < bluestem_farm at juno.com> wrote: > Got it, Jerry. > > ---------- Original Message ---------- > > > Hello Everyone, > > I really appreciate that Lawrence is working with us and is keeping a > close eye on the net. When I write emails I use Mozilla Foxfire then > when I send it goes to Gmail and then they forward to ibiblio. I went to > attach that picture and got the following message from Mozilla Foxfire, > "Many email servers do not accept messages with large file attachments. > The file size restriction varies depending on the mail server > configuration. While you might be able to send a message with a large > attachment, the receiving mail server might refuse to accept a message > with a large attachment. This is all beyond the control of Thunderbird". > > The file size of that picture was 1.38 MB so I opened it with _Picture > It_ software and compressed it reducing the size to 25 kB, that's quite > a reduction. I hope the picture quality and definition is acceptable, we > shall see. On the last send of the picture some of you reported you did > receive it some of you didn't which tells me, after thinking about it, > that Gmail is passing it on and IBIBLIO is passing it on and the problem > is in servers after ibiblio. Will those of you that reported not > receiving it please let me know if you received the smaller size and > received the attachment. Then I will have learned that in the future I > need to compress pictures before I send them and shame on me for not > having learned this before. I guess some folks are slow learners. :-) > > I've embed the picture again from the 25 kB size and also attach it and > lets see what happens. So again the picture is of Gennadiy Eremin and > his son Victor taken in Krymsk, Russia at the Krymsk breeding Station in > their peach test plot. > > > > > > Jerry L > ____________________________________________________________ > Wall Street Daily > Peter Schiff: China Just Armed its Financial Missile > http://thirdpartyoffers.juno.com/TGL3131/56f55f1a5172d5f1a4f87st02duc > __________________ > nafex mailing list > nafex at lists.ibiblio.org > Northamerican Allied Fruit Experimenters > subscribe/unsubscribe|user config|list info: > http://lists.ibiblio.org/mailman/listinfo/nafex > From organic87 at frontiernet.net Fri Mar 25 13:11:31 2016 From: organic87 at frontiernet.net (Road's End Farm) Date: Fri, 25 Mar 2016 13:11:31 -0400 Subject: [nafex] Gennadiy's picture In-Reply-To: <56F55BBF.4040906@gmail.com> References: <56F55BBF.4040906@gmail.com> Message-ID: <293D93F9-0838-4949-963C-7FA28979DBA9@frontiernet.net> On Mar 25, 2016, at 11:39 AM, Jerry Lehman wrote: > I've embed the picture again from the 25 kB size and also attach it and lets see what happens. So again the picture is of Gennadiy Eremin and his son Victor taken in Krymsk, Russia at the Krymsk breeding Station in their peach test plot. This time I've got it. Didn't see it before. I'm using Mac Mail on my computer, coming through Frontiernet, for what that's worth. -- Rivka; Finger Lakes NY, Zone 6A now I think Fresh-market organic produce, small scale From r.fred.bruns at gmail.com Fri Mar 25 15:15:32 2016 From: r.fred.bruns at gmail.com (Robert Bruns) Date: Fri, 25 Mar 2016 15:15:32 -0400 Subject: [nafex] Morus Nigra Chilling Requirements, Etc In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: I have M. nigra "Noir de Spain" in a pot. I overwintered it in a cool greenhouse where the temperature was set to 60 degrees but got down as low as 35 on extremely cold nights. The plant sprouted about a month ago, which implies that your option D would work. A few years ago, my previous greenhouse had its heater fail on a night when the temperature got down to minus 15. My Morus nigra survived, but my figs didn't. So your options A and B might work, but I think they are iffy. In your option C, I'm sure the plant would leaf out in the basement. Good luck! Fred central Indiana, zone 6 (formerly zone 5b) On Fri, Mar 25, 2016 at 12:11 PM, Nathan Wilson wrote: > Hi everyone, > > What are the chilling requirements of morus nigra? > 1. Minimum chilling hours needed to ensure fruit set the next year. > 2. Maximum temperature that 'counts' as chilling hours. > 3. What conditions trigger the plants to break dormancy? > 4. What are the lowest short-term and long-term temperatures the plant will > survive? > > Background information: As mentioned in a previous post, I'm in zone 5/6 > and have morus nigra in 87 litre (23 U.S. gal) pots. > > I'm weighing my options: > A. Bury the plants in winter, just like some people do with figs. I'm not > sure if morus nigra is hardy enough for this. > B. Put the plants in an unheated, detached garage over winter. I think it > would get far too cold in January and February and would kill the plants, > although I haven't documented temperatures yet. > C. Leave the plants outside until around Christmas to satisfy chilling > requirements, then put them in a cool basement, which is presently 12 deg C > (54 deg F), and hope the plants don't break dormancy before I can bring > them back outside. > D. Greenhouse: I have a mekeshift greenhouse setup in my cellar door > stairway. The temperature fluctuates, but I can control it to a point. The > benefit of having the plants in the greenhouse is that I think it could > reduce the number of years it takes the plants to bear, by making them > slightly healthier and more vigorous (this was pointed out by Lee Reich). > But, perhaps I can't have my cake and eat it too. > > Any input or experiences would be appreciated. > > -Nathan > __________________ > nafex mailing list > nafex at lists.ibiblio.org > Northamerican Allied Fruit Experimenters > subscribe/unsubscribe|user config|list info: > http://lists.ibiblio.org/mailman/listinfo/nafex > From cgarriss at garriss.net Fri Mar 25 16:43:00 2016 From: cgarriss at garriss.net (Chris Garriss) Date: Fri, 25 Mar 2016 16:43:00 -0400 Subject: [nafex] Gennadiy's picture In-Reply-To: <56F55BBF.4040906@gmail.com> References: <56F55BBF.4040906@gmail.com> Message-ID: I received it. Chris Garriss Sent via Android Phone On Mar 25, 2016 11:40 AM, "Jerry Lehman" wrote: > Hello Everyone, > > I really appreciate that Lawrence is working with us and is keeping a > close eye on the net. When I write emails I use Mozilla Foxfire then when I > send it goes to Gmail and then they forward to ibiblio. I went to attach > that picture and got the following message from Mozilla Foxfire, "Many > email servers do not accept messages with large file attachments. The file > size restriction varies depending on the mail server configuration. While > you might be able to send a message with a large attachment, the receiving > mail server might refuse to accept a message with a large attachment. This > is all beyond the control of Thunderbird". > > The file size of that picture was 1.38 MB so I opened it with _Picture It_ > software and compressed it reducing the size to 25 kB, that's quite a > reduction. I hope the picture quality and definition is acceptable, we > shall see. On the last send of the picture some of you reported you did > receive it some of you didn't which tells me, after thinking about it, that > Gmail is passing it on and IBIBLIO is passing it on and the problem is in > servers after ibiblio. Will those of you that reported not receiving it > please let me know if you received the smaller size and received the > attachment. Then I will have learned that in the future I need to compress > pictures before I send them and shame on me for not having learned this > before. I guess some folks are slow learners. :-) > > I've embed the picture again from the 25 kB size and also attach it and > lets see what happens. So again the picture is of Gennadiy Eremin and his > son Victor taken in Krymsk, Russia at the Krymsk breeding Station in their > peach test plot. > > > > > > Jerry L > > > __________________ > nafex mailing list > nafex at lists.ibiblio.org > Northamerican Allied Fruit Experimenters > subscribe/unsubscribe|user config|list info: > http://lists.ibiblio.org/mailman/listinfo/nafex > From lfljvenaura at gmail.com Fri Mar 25 22:04:56 2016 From: lfljvenaura at gmail.com (Lawrence London) Date: Fri, 25 Mar 2016 22:04:56 -0400 Subject: [nafex] Gennadiy's picture In-Reply-To: <56F55BBF.4040906@gmail.com> References: <56F55BBF.4040906@gmail.com> Message-ID: On Fri, Mar 25, 2016 at 11:39 AM, Jerry Lehman wrote: > When I write emails I use Mozilla Foxfire then when I send it goes to > Gmail and then they forward to ibiblio. I went to attach that picture and > got the following message from Mozilla Foxfire, "Many email servers do > not accept messages with large file attachments. The file size restriction > varies depending on the mail server configuration. While you might be able > to send a message with a large attachment, the receiving mail server might > refuse to accept a message with a large attachment. This is all beyond the > control of Thunderbird". > Jerry: I received your message with 1) an inline image embedded in the text 2) a thumbnail of the same image, attached to the message Perfect. About the apps and services you use: 1) You run Firefox, your web browser 2) You go to Gmail Gmail - Google https://mail.google.com/ 3) You log into Gmail with 1) your username and 2) your password 4) You then read your incoming email in Inbox or other folders, reply to them OR create and send a new email message in Compose So,all your email activity should be in Gmail after logging in Firefox doesn't do email but it takes you to services that do Of course you can run dedicated email apps that reside completely on your own computer, ones like Thunderbird, Opera, Claws or other good ones and you can run those concurrently with Gmail plus import all your Gmail into them. The image you sent could be several megabytes in size so trimming it smaller than 25K is not necessary. Gennaidy's farm soil looks like Black Earth or rather Black Gold. LL -- Lawrence F. London lfljvenaura at gmail.com https://sites.google.com/site/avantgeared/ From lfljvenaura at gmail.com Fri Mar 25 22:23:57 2016 From: lfljvenaura at gmail.com (Lawrence London) Date: Fri, 25 Mar 2016 22:23:57 -0400 Subject: [nafex] Example of including an image in an email message to list: Plum - Kuban Burgandy - My Edible Landscape In-Reply-To: <56F552E5.1000708@gmail.com> References: <56F552E5.1000708@gmail.com> Message-ID: On Fri, Mar 25, 2016 at 11:01 AM, Jerry Lehman wrote: > the plum picture came through embedded as well as attached. > So that means that for me at least doing the copy-paste of an image from a website I have open in a browser window into the body of a message to the nafex list does not work but uploading it from my computer hard drive as inline or attached does. So, that is settled. Thanks for the feedback. LL -- Lawrence F. London lfljvenaura at gmail.com https://sites.google.com/site/avantgeared/ From nathan.b.c.wilson at gmail.com Mon Mar 28 10:25:49 2016 From: nathan.b.c.wilson at gmail.com (Nathan Wilson) Date: Mon, 28 Mar 2016 10:25:49 -0400 Subject: [nafex] Morus Nigra Chilling Requirements, Etc In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Thanks very much Fred. This is exactly the sort of information I'm looking for. Nathan On Friday, March 25, 2016, Robert Bruns wrote: > I have M. nigra "Noir de Spain" in a pot. I overwintered it in a cool > greenhouse where the temperature was set to 60 degrees but got down as low > as 35 on extremely cold nights. The plant sprouted about a month ago, > which implies that your option D would work. > > A few years ago, my previous greenhouse had its heater fail on a night when > the temperature got down to minus 15. My Morus nigra survived, but my figs > didn't. So your options A and B might work, but I think they are iffy. In > your option C, I'm sure the plant would leaf out in the basement. > > Good luck! > > Fred > central Indiana, zone 6 (formerly zone 5b) > > > On Fri, Mar 25, 2016 at 12:11 PM, Nathan Wilson < nathan.b.c.wilson at gmail.com >> wrote: > >> Hi everyone, >> >> What are the chilling requirements of morus nigra? >> 1. Minimum chilling hours needed to ensure fruit set the next year. >> 2. Maximum temperature that 'counts' as chilling hours. >> 3. What conditions trigger the plants to break dormancy? >> 4. What are the lowest short-term and long-term temperatures the plant will >> survive? >> >> Background information: As mentioned in a previous post, I'm in zone 5/6 >> and have morus nigra in 87 litre (23 U.S. gal) pots. >> >> I'm weighing my options: >> A. Bury the plants in winter, just like some people do with figs. I'm not >> sure if morus nigra is hardy enough for this. >> B. Put the plants in an unheated, detached garage over winter. I think it >> would get far too cold in January and February and would kill the plants, >> although I haven't documented temperatures yet. >> C. Leave the plants outside until around Christmas to satisfy chilling >> requirements, then put them in a cool basement, which is presently 12 deg C >> (54 deg F), and hope the plants don't break dormancy before I can bring >> them back outside. >> D. Greenhouse: I have a mekeshift greenhouse setup in my cellar door >> stairway. The temperature fluctuates, but I can control it to a point. The >> benefit of having the plants in the greenhouse is that I think it could >> reduce the number of years it takes the plants to bear, by making them >> slightly healthier and more vigorous (this was pointed out by Lee Reich). >> But, perhaps I can't have my cake and eat it too. >> >> Any input or experiences would be appreciated. >> >> -Nathan >> __________________ >> nafex mailing list >> nafex at lists.ibiblio.org >> Northamerican Allied Fruit Experimenters >> subscribe/unsubscribe|user config|list info: >> http://lists.ibiblio.org/mailman/listinfo/nafex >> > __________________ > nafex mailing list > nafex at lists.ibiblio.org > Northamerican Allied Fruit Experimenters > subscribe/unsubscribe|user config|list info: > http://lists.ibiblio.org/mailman/listinfo/nafex > From leeareich at gmail.com Mon Mar 28 10:49:07 2016 From: leeareich at gmail.com (Lee Reich) Date: Mon, 28 Mar 2016 10:49:07 -0400 Subject: [nafex] Morus Nigra Chilling Requirements, Etc In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <51B0BD4E-35F7-4ADB-BAD5-6CBE949493B9@leereich.com> Fred, I am very surprised at the amount of cold your M. nigra tolerated, although we don?t know just how cold it got in the unheated greenhouse. Where did you get your M. nigra, because sometimes nurseries mislabel the plant? Lee Reich, PhD Come visit my farmden at http://www.leereich.com/blog http://leereich.com/ Books by Lee Reich: A Northeast Gardener's Year The Pruning Book Weedless Gardening Uncommon Fruits for Every Garden Landscaping with Fruit Grow Fruit Naturally > On Mar 28, 2016, at 10:25 AM, Nathan Wilson wrote: > > Thanks very much Fred. This is exactly the sort of information I'm looking > for. > > Nathan > > > > On Friday, March 25, 2016, Robert Bruns wrote: >> I have M. nigra "Noir de Spain" in a pot. I overwintered it in a cool >> greenhouse where the temperature was set to 60 degrees but got down as low >> as 35 on extremely cold nights. The plant sprouted about a month ago, >> which implies that your option D would work. >> >> A few years ago, my previous greenhouse had its heater fail on a night > when >> the temperature got down to minus 15. My Morus nigra survived, but my > figs >> didn't. So your options A and B might work, but I think they are iffy. > In >> your option C, I'm sure the plant would leaf out in the basement. >> >> Good luck! >> >> Fred >> central Indiana, zone 6 (formerly zone 5b) >> >> >> On Fri, Mar 25, 2016 at 12:11 PM, Nathan Wilson < > nathan.b.c.wilson at gmail.com >>> wrote: >> >>> Hi everyone, >>> >>> What are the chilling requirements of morus nigra? >>> 1. Minimum chilling hours needed to ensure fruit set the next year. >>> 2. Maximum temperature that 'counts' as chilling hours. >>> 3. What conditions trigger the plants to break dormancy? >>> 4. What are the lowest short-term and long-term temperatures the plant > will >>> survive? >>> >>> Background information: As mentioned in a previous post, I'm in zone 5/6 >>> and have morus nigra in 87 litre (23 U.S. gal) pots. >>> >>> I'm weighing my options: >>> A. Bury the plants in winter, just like some people do with figs. I'm not >>> sure if morus nigra is hardy enough for this. >>> B. Put the plants in an unheated, detached garage over winter. I think it >>> would get far too cold in January and February and would kill the plants, >>> although I haven't documented temperatures yet. >>> C. Leave the plants outside until around Christmas to satisfy chilling >>> requirements, then put them in a cool basement, which is presently 12 > deg C >>> (54 deg F), and hope the plants don't break dormancy before I can bring >>> them back outside. >>> D. Greenhouse: I have a mekeshift greenhouse setup in my cellar door >>> stairway. The temperature fluctuates, but I can control it to a point. > The >>> benefit of having the plants in the greenhouse is that I think it could >>> reduce the number of years it takes the plants to bear, by making them >>> slightly healthier and more vigorous (this was pointed out by Lee Reich). >>> But, perhaps I can't have my cake and eat it too. >>> >>> Any input or experiences would be appreciated. >>> >>> -Nathan >>> __________________ >>> nafex mailing list >>> nafex at lists.ibiblio.org >>> Northamerican Allied Fruit Experimenters >>> subscribe/unsubscribe|user config|list info: >>> http://lists.ibiblio.org/mailman/listinfo/nafex >>> >> __________________ >> nafex mailing list >> nafex at lists.ibiblio.org >> Northamerican Allied Fruit Experimenters >> subscribe/unsubscribe|user config|list info: >> http://lists.ibiblio.org/mailman/listinfo/nafex >> > __________________ > nafex mailing list > nafex at lists.ibiblio.org > Northamerican Allied Fruit Experimenters > subscribe/unsubscribe|user config|list info: > http://lists.ibiblio.org/mailman/listinfo/nafex From filtertitle at gmail.com Mon Mar 28 12:08:07 2016 From: filtertitle at gmail.com (SC) Date: Mon, 28 Mar 2016 12:08:07 -0400 Subject: [nafex] Morus Nigra Chilling Requirements, Etc Message-ID: I think the issue is that of humidity; not cold-tollerance. ?Mine in ground 3-4 years.. occasionally bellow 0 F. M. nigra -- for certain Sent via the Samsung Galaxy S?6 active, an AT&T 4G LTE smartphone-------- Original message --------From: Lee Reich Date: 3/28/2016 10:49 AM (GMT-05:00) To: mailing list at ibiblio - Northamerican Allied Fruit Experimenters Subject: Re: [nafex] Morus Nigra Chilling Requirements, Etc Fred, I am very surprised at the amount of cold your M. nigra tolerated, although we don?t know just how cold it got in the unheated greenhouse. Where did you get your M. nigra, because sometimes nurseries mislabel the plant? Lee Reich, PhD Come visit my farmden at? http://www.leereich.com/blog http://leereich.com/ Books by Lee Reich: A Northeast Gardener's Year The Pruning Book Weedless Gardening Uncommon Fruits for Every Garden Landscaping with Fruit Grow Fruit Naturally > On Mar 28, 2016, at 10:25 AM, Nathan Wilson wrote: > > Thanks very much Fred. This is exactly the sort of information I'm looking > for. > > Nathan > > > > On Friday, March 25, 2016, Robert Bruns wrote: >> I have M. nigra "Noir de Spain" in a pot.? I overwintered it in a cool >> greenhouse where the temperature was set to 60 degrees but got down as low >> as 35 on extremely cold nights.? The plant sprouted about a month ago, >> which implies that your option D would work. >> >> A few years ago, my previous greenhouse had its heater fail on a night > when >> the temperature got down to minus 15.? My Morus nigra survived, but my > figs >> didn't.? So your options A and B might work, but I think they are iffy. > In >> your option C, I'm sure the plant would leaf out in the basement. >> >> Good luck! >> >> Fred >> central Indiana, zone 6 (formerly zone 5b) >> >> >> On Fri, Mar 25, 2016 at 12:11 PM, Nathan Wilson < > nathan.b.c.wilson at gmail.com >>> wrote: >> >>> Hi everyone, >>> >>> What are the chilling requirements of morus nigra? >>> 1. Minimum chilling hours needed to ensure fruit set the next year. >>> 2. Maximum temperature that 'counts' as chilling hours. >>> 3. What conditions trigger the plants to break dormancy? >>> 4. What are the lowest short-term and long-term temperatures the plant > will >>> survive? >>> >>> Background information: As mentioned in a previous post, I'm in zone 5/6 >>> and have morus nigra in 87 litre (23 U.S. gal) pots. >>> >>> I'm weighing my options: >>> A. Bury the plants in winter, just like some people do with figs. I'm not >>> sure if morus nigra is hardy enough for this. >>> B. Put the plants in an unheated, detached garage over winter. I think it >>> would get far too cold in January and February and would kill the plants, >>> although I haven't documented temperatures yet. >>> C. Leave the plants outside until around Christmas to satisfy chilling >>> requirements, then put them in a cool basement, which is presently 12 > deg C >>> (54 deg F), and hope the plants don't break dormancy before I can bring >>> them back outside. >>> D. Greenhouse: I have a mekeshift greenhouse setup in my cellar door >>> stairway. The temperature fluctuates, but I can control it to a point. > The >>> benefit of having the plants in the greenhouse is that I think it could >>> reduce the number of years it takes the plants to bear, by making them >>> slightly healthier and more vigorous (this was pointed out by Lee Reich). >>> But, perhaps I can't have my cake and eat it too. >>> >>> Any input or experiences would be appreciated. >>> >>> -Nathan >>> __________________ >>> nafex mailing list >>> nafex at lists.ibiblio.org >>> Northamerican Allied Fruit Experimenters >>> subscribe/unsubscribe|user config|list info: >>> http://lists.ibiblio.org/mailman/listinfo/nafex >>> >> __________________ >> nafex mailing list >> nafex at lists.ibiblio.org >> Northamerican Allied Fruit Experimenters >> subscribe/unsubscribe|user config|list info: >> http://lists.ibiblio.org/mailman/listinfo/nafex >> > __________________ > nafex mailing list > nafex at lists.ibiblio.org > Northamerican Allied Fruit Experimenters > subscribe/unsubscribe|user config|list info: > http://lists.ibiblio.org/mailman/listinfo/nafex __________________ nafex mailing list nafex at lists.ibiblio.org Northamerican Allied Fruit Experimenters subscribe/unsubscribe|user config|list info: http://lists.ibiblio.org/mailman/listinfo/nafex From r.fred.bruns at gmail.com Mon Mar 28 15:57:59 2016 From: r.fred.bruns at gmail.com (Robert Bruns) Date: Mon, 28 Mar 2016 15:57:59 -0400 Subject: [nafex] Morus Nigra Chilling Requirements, Etc In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Lee - I'm pretty sure got it from Raintree. It's a very small plant, still less than 3 feet tall. It gets a leaf disease that doesn't affect any of my M. Alba/rubra, maybe that's why it isn't growing With respect to hardiness, I would bet the problem isn't surviving the cold in mid-winter, especially if the plant is fully dormant and protected. The problem is that the subtropical mulberries leaf out too early in the spring and then get clobbered by late frosts. Fred On Mon, Mar 28, 2016 at 12:08 PM, SC wrote: > I think the issue is that of humidity; not cold-tollerance. Mine in > ground 3-4 years.. occasionally bellow 0 F. > M. nigra -- for certain > > > Sent via the Samsung Galaxy S?6 active, an AT&T 4G LTE smartphone-------- > Original message --------From: Lee Reich Date: > 3/28/2016 10:49 AM (GMT-05:00) To: mailing list at ibiblio - > Northamerican Allied Fruit Experimenters > Subject: Re: [nafex] Morus Nigra Chilling Requirements, Etc > Fred, I am very surprised at the amount of cold your M. nigra tolerated, > although we don?t know just how cold it got in the unheated greenhouse. > Where did you get your M. nigra, because sometimes nurseries mislabel the > plant? > > Lee Reich, PhD > Come visit my farmden at http://www.leereich.com/blog < > http://www.leereich.com/blog> > http://leereich.com/ > > Books by Lee Reich: > A Northeast Gardener's Year > The Pruning Book > Weedless Gardening > Uncommon Fruits for Every Garden > Landscaping with Fruit > Grow Fruit Naturally > > > On Mar 28, 2016, at 10:25 AM, Nathan Wilson > wrote: > > > > Thanks very much Fred. This is exactly the sort of information I'm > looking > > for. > > > > Nathan > > > > > > > > On Friday, March 25, 2016, Robert Bruns wrote: > >> I have M. nigra "Noir de Spain" in a pot. I overwintered it in a cool > >> greenhouse where the temperature was set to 60 degrees but got down as > low > >> as 35 on extremely cold nights. The plant sprouted about a month ago, > >> which implies that your option D would work. > >> > >> A few years ago, my previous greenhouse had its heater fail on a night > > when > >> the temperature got down to minus 15. My Morus nigra survived, but my > > figs > >> didn't. So your options A and B might work, but I think they are iffy. > > In > >> your option C, I'm sure the plant would leaf out in the basement. > >> > >> Good luck! > >> > >> Fred > >> central Indiana, zone 6 (formerly zone 5b) > >> > >> > >> On Fri, Mar 25, 2016 at 12:11 PM, Nathan Wilson < > > nathan.b.c.wilson at gmail.com > >>> wrote: > >> > >>> Hi everyone, > >>> > >>> What are the chilling requirements of morus nigra? > >>> 1. Minimum chilling hours needed to ensure fruit set the next year. > >>> 2. Maximum temperature that 'counts' as chilling hours. > >>> 3. What conditions trigger the plants to break dormancy? > >>> 4. What are the lowest short-term and long-term temperatures the plant > > will > >>> survive? > >>> > >>> Background information: As mentioned in a previous post, I'm in zone > 5/6 > >>> and have morus nigra in 87 litre (23 U.S. gal) pots. > >>> > >>> I'm weighing my options: > >>> A. Bury the plants in winter, just like some people do with figs. I'm > not > >>> sure if morus nigra is hardy enough for this. > >>> B. Put the plants in an unheated, detached garage over winter. I think > it > >>> would get far too cold in January and February and would kill the > plants, > >>> although I haven't documented temperatures yet. > >>> C. Leave the plants outside until around Christmas to satisfy chilling > >>> requirements, then put them in a cool basement, which is presently 12 > > deg C > >>> (54 deg F), and hope the plants don't break dormancy before I can bring > >>> them back outside. > >>> D. Greenhouse: I have a mekeshift greenhouse setup in my cellar door > >>> stairway. The temperature fluctuates, but I can control it to a point. > > The > >>> benefit of having the plants in the greenhouse is that I think it could > >>> reduce the number of years it takes the plants to bear, by making them > >>> slightly healthier and more vigorous (this was pointed out by Lee > Reich). > >>> But, perhaps I can't have my cake and eat it too. > >>> > >>> Any input or experiences would be appreciated. > >>> > >>> -Nathan > >>> __________________ > >>> nafex mailing list > >>> nafex at lists.ibiblio.org > >>> Northamerican Allied Fruit Experimenters > >>> subscribe/unsubscribe|user config|list info: > >>> http://lists.ibiblio.org/mailman/listinfo/nafex > >>> > >> __________________ > >> nafex mailing list > >> nafex at lists.ibiblio.org > >> Northamerican Allied Fruit Experimenters > >> subscribe/unsubscribe|user config|list info: > >> http://lists.ibiblio.org/mailman/listinfo/nafex > >> > > __________________ > > nafex mailing list > > nafex at lists.ibiblio.org > > Northamerican Allied Fruit Experimenters > > subscribe/unsubscribe|user config|list info: > > http://lists.ibiblio.org/mailman/listinfo/nafex > > __________________ > nafex mailing list > nafex at lists.ibiblio.org > Northamerican Allied Fruit Experimenters > subscribe/unsubscribe|user config|list info: > http://lists.ibiblio.org/mailman/listinfo/nafex > __________________ > nafex mailing list > nafex at lists.ibiblio.org > Northamerican Allied Fruit Experimenters > subscribe/unsubscribe|user config|list info: > http://lists.ibiblio.org/mailman/listinfo/nafex > From growyourown at earthlink.net Mon Mar 28 22:06:44 2016 From: growyourown at earthlink.net (mark wessel) Date: Mon, 28 Mar 2016 22:06:44 -0400 Subject: [nafex] Morus Nigra Chilling Requirements, Etc In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Greetings All What a mixed up and confusing genus with nurseries offering mis identified plants only adding to the confusion. Unless past knowledge about Morus nigra is totally incorrect, M. nigra is not hardy in most of the country. Indeed, it does not like humidity but it also will not handle temps much below 15 F. Extensive conversations with A.J. Bullard are the basis of my knowledge on the subject. He is the first along with Michael at Edible Landscaping to import M. nigra into this country. I am working on a dichotomous key for Morus nigra, alba and rubber. Not that this will relieve all id problems but it will be a good start. The species have very distinct characteristics that differentiate themselves. There are two sources so far that have added to the confusion. First, a major seed house is offering M. nigra seeds which in fact are M alba. Many nurseries use this seed house and end up selling mis id plants. Secondly, A tissue culture lab is selling a dwarf nigra. I do not know exactly what it is, I suspect alba , but it is not nigra. It doesn?t possess any of the diagnostic characteristics of nigra and it has survived 12 below F in a pot sitting above the soil level. Burnt Ridge is offering one that fits this bill. I now have it from three different sources and all are the same. Then there is the issue of how freely alb and rubra hybridize. Mark > On Mar 28, 2016, at 3:57 PM, Robert Bruns wrote: > > Lee - > > I'm pretty sure got it from Raintree. It's a very small plant, still less > than 3 feet tall. It gets a leaf disease that doesn't affect any of my M. > Alba/rubra, maybe that's why it isn't growing > > With respect to hardiness, I would bet the problem isn't surviving the cold > in mid-winter, especially if the plant is fully dormant and protected. The > problem is that the subtropical mulberries leaf out too early in the spring > and then get clobbered by late frosts. > > Fred > > On Mon, Mar 28, 2016 at 12:08 PM, SC wrote: > >> I think the issue is that of humidity; not cold-tollerance. Mine in >> ground 3-4 years.. occasionally bellow 0 F. >> M. nigra -- for certain >> >> >> Sent via the Samsung Galaxy S?6 active, an AT&T 4G LTE smartphone-------- >> Original message --------From: Lee Reich Date: >> 3/28/2016 10:49 AM (GMT-05:00) To: mailing list at ibiblio - >> Northamerican Allied Fruit Experimenters >> Subject: Re: [nafex] Morus Nigra Chilling Requirements, Etc >> Fred, I am very surprised at the amount of cold your M. nigra tolerated, >> although we don?t know just how cold it got in the unheated greenhouse. >> Where did you get your M. nigra, because sometimes nurseries mislabel the >> plant? >> >> Lee Reich, PhD >> Come visit my farmden at http://www.leereich.com/blog < >> http://www.leereich.com/blog> >> http://leereich.com/ >> >> Books by Lee Reich: >> A Northeast Gardener's Year >> The Pruning Book >> Weedless Gardening >> Uncommon Fruits for Every Garden >> Landscaping with Fruit >> Grow Fruit Naturally >> >>> On Mar 28, 2016, at 10:25 AM, Nathan Wilson >> wrote: >>> >>> Thanks very much Fred. This is exactly the sort of information I'm >> looking >>> for. >>> >>> Nathan >>> >>> >>> >>> On Friday, March 25, 2016, Robert Bruns wrote: >>>> I have M. nigra "Noir de Spain" in a pot. I overwintered it in a cool >>>> greenhouse where the temperature was set to 60 degrees but got down as >> low >>>> as 35 on extremely cold nights. The plant sprouted about a month ago, >>>> which implies that your option D would work. >>>> >>>> A few years ago, my previous greenhouse had its heater fail on a night >>> when >>>> the temperature got down to minus 15. My Morus nigra survived, but my >>> figs >>>> didn't. So your options A and B might work, but I think they are iffy. >>> In >>>> your option C, I'm sure the plant would leaf out in the basement. >>>> >>>> Good luck! >>>> >>>> Fred >>>> central Indiana, zone 6 (formerly zone 5b) >>>> >>>> >>>> On Fri, Mar 25, 2016 at 12:11 PM, Nathan Wilson < >>> nathan.b.c.wilson at gmail.com >>>>> wrote: >>>> >>>>> Hi everyone, >>>>> >>>>> What are the chilling requirements of morus nigra? >>>>> 1. Minimum chilling hours needed to ensure fruit set the next year. >>>>> 2. Maximum temperature that 'counts' as chilling hours. >>>>> 3. What conditions trigger the plants to break dormancy? >>>>> 4. What are the lowest short-term and long-term temperatures the plant >>> will >>>>> survive? >>>>> >>>>> Background information: As mentioned in a previous post, I'm in zone >> 5/6 >>>>> and have morus nigra in 87 litre (23 U.S. gal) pots. >>>>> >>>>> I'm weighing my options: >>>>> A. Bury the plants in winter, just like some people do with figs. I'm >> not >>>>> sure if morus nigra is hardy enough for this. >>>>> B. Put the plants in an unheated, detached garage over winter. I think >> it >>>>> would get far too cold in January and February and would kill the >> plants, >>>>> although I haven't documented temperatures yet. >>>>> C. Leave the plants outside until around Christmas to satisfy chilling >>>>> requirements, then put them in a cool basement, which is presently 12 >>> deg C >>>>> (54 deg F), and hope the plants don't break dormancy before I can bring >>>>> them back outside. >>>>> D. Greenhouse: I have a mekeshift greenhouse setup in my cellar door >>>>> stairway. The temperature fluctuates, but I can control it to a point. >>> The >>>>> benefit of having the plants in the greenhouse is that I think it could >>>>> reduce the number of years it takes the plants to bear, by making them >>>>> slightly healthier and more vigorous (this was pointed out by Lee >> Reich). >>>>> But, perhaps I can't have my cake and eat it too. >>>>> >>>>> Any input or experiences would be appreciated. >>>>> >>>>> -Nathan >>>>> __________________ >>>>> nafex mailing list >>>>> nafex at lists.ibiblio.org >>>>> Northamerican Allied Fruit Experimenters >>>>> subscribe/unsubscribe|user config|list info: >>>>> http://lists.ibiblio.org/mailman/listinfo/nafex >>>>> >>>> __________________ >>>> nafex mailing list >>>> nafex at lists.ibiblio.org >>>> Northamerican Allied Fruit Experimenters >>>> subscribe/unsubscribe|user config|list info: >>>> http://lists.ibiblio.org/mailman/listinfo/nafex >>>> >>> __________________ >>> nafex mailing list >>> nafex at lists.ibiblio.org >>> Northamerican Allied Fruit Experimenters >>> subscribe/unsubscribe|user config|list info: >>> http://lists.ibiblio.org/mailman/listinfo/nafex >> >> __________________ >> nafex mailing list >> nafex at lists.ibiblio.org >> Northamerican Allied Fruit Experimenters >> subscribe/unsubscribe|user config|list info: >> http://lists.ibiblio.org/mailman/listinfo/nafex >> __________________ >> nafex mailing list >> nafex at lists.ibiblio.org >> Northamerican Allied Fruit Experimenters >> subscribe/unsubscribe|user config|list info: >> http://lists.ibiblio.org/mailman/listinfo/nafex >> > __________________ > nafex mailing list > nafex at lists.ibiblio.org > Northamerican Allied Fruit Experimenters > subscribe/unsubscribe|user config|list info: > http://lists.ibiblio.org/mailman/listinfo/nafex From nathan.b.c.wilson at gmail.com Tue Mar 29 10:26:55 2016 From: nathan.b.c.wilson at gmail.com (Nathan Wilson) Date: Tue, 29 Mar 2016 10:26:55 -0400 Subject: [nafex] Morus Nigra Chilling Requirements, Etc In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Thanks Mark. Looking forward to seeing that dichotomous key. I just recently ordered supposed morus nigra seed from Trade Winds Fruit. Maybe it is true morus nigra or maybe it isn't; time will tell. Where can one purchase true/verified morus nigra seed? -Nathan On Mon, Mar 28, 2016 at 10:06 PM, mark wessel wrote: > Greetings All > > What a mixed up and confusing genus with nurseries offering mis identified > plants only adding to the confusion. > Unless past knowledge about Morus nigra is totally incorrect, M. nigra is > not hardy in most of the country. Indeed, it does not like humidity but it > also will not handle temps much below 15 F. Extensive conversations with > A.J. Bullard are the basis of my knowledge on the subject. He is the first > along with Michael at Edible Landscaping to import M. nigra into this > country. > I am working on a dichotomous key for Morus nigra, alba and rubber. Not > that this will relieve all id problems but it will be a good start. The > species have very distinct characteristics that differentiate themselves. > There are two sources so far that have added to the confusion. First, a > major seed house is offering M. nigra seeds which in fact are M alba. Many > nurseries use this seed house and end up selling mis id plants. > Secondly, A tissue culture lab is selling a dwarf nigra. I do not know > exactly what it is, I suspect alba , but it is not nigra. It doesn?t > possess any of the diagnostic characteristics of nigra and it has survived > 12 below F in a pot sitting above the soil level. Burnt Ridge is offering > one that fits this bill. I now have it from three different sources and all > are the same. > Then there is the issue of how freely alb and rubra hybridize. > > Mark > > > > > > On Mar 28, 2016, at 3:57 PM, Robert Bruns > wrote: > > > > Lee - > > > > I'm pretty sure got it from Raintree. It's a very small plant, still > less > > than 3 feet tall. It gets a leaf disease that doesn't affect any of my > M. > > Alba/rubra, maybe that's why it isn't growing > > > > With respect to hardiness, I would bet the problem isn't surviving the > cold > > in mid-winter, especially if the plant is fully dormant and protected. > The > > problem is that the subtropical mulberries leaf out too early in the > spring > > and then get clobbered by late frosts. > > > > Fred > > > > On Mon, Mar 28, 2016 at 12:08 PM, SC wrote: > > > >> I think the issue is that of humidity; not cold-tollerance. Mine in > >> ground 3-4 years.. occasionally bellow 0 F. > >> M. nigra -- for certain > >> > >> > >> Sent via the Samsung Galaxy S?6 active, an AT&T 4G LTE > smartphone-------- > >> Original message --------From: Lee Reich Date: > >> 3/28/2016 10:49 AM (GMT-05:00) To: mailing list at ibiblio - > >> Northamerican Allied Fruit Experimenters > >> Subject: Re: [nafex] Morus Nigra Chilling Requirements, Etc > >> Fred, I am very surprised at the amount of cold your M. nigra tolerated, > >> although we don?t know just how cold it got in the unheated greenhouse. > >> Where did you get your M. nigra, because sometimes nurseries mislabel > the > >> plant? > >> > >> Lee Reich, PhD > >> Come visit my farmden at http://www.leereich.com/blog < > >> http://www.leereich.com/blog> > >> http://leereich.com/ > >> > >> Books by Lee Reich: > >> A Northeast Gardener's Year > >> The Pruning Book > >> Weedless Gardening > >> Uncommon Fruits for Every Garden > >> Landscaping with Fruit > >> Grow Fruit Naturally > >> > >>> On Mar 28, 2016, at 10:25 AM, Nathan Wilson < > nathan.b.c.wilson at gmail.com> > >> wrote: > >>> > >>> Thanks very much Fred. This is exactly the sort of information I'm > >> looking > >>> for. > >>> > >>> Nathan > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> On Friday, March 25, 2016, Robert Bruns > wrote: > >>>> I have M. nigra "Noir de Spain" in a pot. I overwintered it in a cool > >>>> greenhouse where the temperature was set to 60 degrees but got down as > >> low > >>>> as 35 on extremely cold nights. The plant sprouted about a month ago, > >>>> which implies that your option D would work. > >>>> > >>>> A few years ago, my previous greenhouse had its heater fail on a night > >>> when > >>>> the temperature got down to minus 15. My Morus nigra survived, but my > >>> figs > >>>> didn't. So your options A and B might work, but I think they are > iffy. > >>> In > >>>> your option C, I'm sure the plant would leaf out in the basement. > >>>> > >>>> Good luck! > >>>> > >>>> Fred > >>>> central Indiana, zone 6 (formerly zone 5b) > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> On Fri, Mar 25, 2016 at 12:11 PM, Nathan Wilson < > >>> nathan.b.c.wilson at gmail.com > >>>>> wrote: > >>>> > >>>>> Hi everyone, > >>>>> > >>>>> What are the chilling requirements of morus nigra? > >>>>> 1. Minimum chilling hours needed to ensure fruit set the next year. > >>>>> 2. Maximum temperature that 'counts' as chilling hours. > >>>>> 3. What conditions trigger the plants to break dormancy? > >>>>> 4. What are the lowest short-term and long-term temperatures the > plant > >>> will > >>>>> survive? > >>>>> > >>>>> Background information: As mentioned in a previous post, I'm in zone > >> 5/6 > >>>>> and have morus nigra in 87 litre (23 U.S. gal) pots. > >>>>> > >>>>> I'm weighing my options: > >>>>> A. Bury the plants in winter, just like some people do with figs. I'm > >> not > >>>>> sure if morus nigra is hardy enough for this. > >>>>> B. Put the plants in an unheated, detached garage over winter. I > think > >> it > >>>>> would get far too cold in January and February and would kill the > >> plants, > >>>>> although I haven't documented temperatures yet. > >>>>> C. Leave the plants outside until around Christmas to satisfy > chilling > >>>>> requirements, then put them in a cool basement, which is presently 12 > >>> deg C > >>>>> (54 deg F), and hope the plants don't break dormancy before I can > bring > >>>>> them back outside. > >>>>> D. Greenhouse: I have a mekeshift greenhouse setup in my cellar door > >>>>> stairway. The temperature fluctuates, but I can control it to a > point. > >>> The > >>>>> benefit of having the plants in the greenhouse is that I think it > could > >>>>> reduce the number of years it takes the plants to bear, by making > them > >>>>> slightly healthier and more vigorous (this was pointed out by Lee > >> Reich). > >>>>> But, perhaps I can't have my cake and eat it too. > >>>>> > >>>>> Any input or experiences would be appreciated. > >>>>> > >>>>> -Nathan > >>>>> __________________ > >>>>> nafex mailing list > >>>>> nafex at lists.ibiblio.org > >>>>> Northamerican Allied Fruit Experimenters > >>>>> subscribe/unsubscribe|user config|list info: > >>>>> http://lists.ibiblio.org/mailman/listinfo/nafex > >>>>> > >>>> __________________ > >>>> nafex mailing list > >>>> nafex at lists.ibiblio.org > >>>> Northamerican Allied Fruit Experimenters > >>>> subscribe/unsubscribe|user config|list info: > >>>> http://lists.ibiblio.org/mailman/listinfo/nafex > >>>> > >>> __________________ > >>> nafex mailing list > >>> nafex at lists.ibiblio.org > >>> Northamerican Allied Fruit Experimenters > >>> subscribe/unsubscribe|user config|list info: > >>> http://lists.ibiblio.org/mailman/listinfo/nafex > >> > >> __________________ > >> nafex mailing list > >> nafex at lists.ibiblio.org > >> Northamerican Allied Fruit Experimenters > >> subscribe/unsubscribe|user config|list info: > >> http://lists.ibiblio.org/mailman/listinfo/nafex > >> __________________ > >> nafex mailing list > >> nafex at lists.ibiblio.org > >> Northamerican Allied Fruit Experimenters > >> subscribe/unsubscribe|user config|list info: > >> http://lists.ibiblio.org/mailman/listinfo/nafex > >> > > __________________ > > nafex mailing list > > nafex at lists.ibiblio.org > > Northamerican Allied Fruit Experimenters > > subscribe/unsubscribe|user config|list info: > > http://lists.ibiblio.org/mailman/listinfo/nafex > > __________________ > nafex mailing list > nafex at lists.ibiblio.org > Northamerican Allied Fruit Experimenters > subscribe/unsubscribe|user config|list info: > http://lists.ibiblio.org/mailman/listinfo/nafex > From iwgarden at earthlink.net Tue Mar 29 11:08:33 2016 From: iwgarden at earthlink.net (Idell Weydemeyer) Date: Tue, 29 Mar 2016 08:08:33 -0700 Subject: [nafex] Morus Nigra Chilling Requirements, Etc In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <000e01d189cc$dca1f3f0$95e5dbd0$@net> Black mulberries can be grafted onto white mulberries. Probably someone has scions that could be mailed. Mine has already broken dormancy so could not be mailed by me. My Morus nigra has black tipped buds and my Morus alba has white tipped buds . Perhaps you can buy a tree and keep it small in a large pot. Idell Weydemeyer Zone 9a El Sobrante, CA -----Original Message----- From: nafex [mailto:nafex-bounces at lists.ibiblio.org] On Behalf Of Nathan Wilson Sent: Tuesday, March 29, 2016 7:27 AM To: mailing list at ibiblio - Northamerican Allied Fruit Experimenters Subject: Re: [nafex] Morus Nigra Chilling Requirements, Etc Thanks Mark. Looking forward to seeing that dichotomous key. I just recently ordered supposed morus nigra seed from Trade Winds Fruit. Maybe it is true morus nigra or maybe it isn't; time will tell. Where can one purchase true/verified morus nigra seed? -Nathan On Mon, Mar 28, 2016 at 10:06 PM, mark wessel wrote: > Greetings All > > What a mixed up and confusing genus with nurseries offering mis > identified plants only adding to the confusion. > Unless past knowledge about Morus nigra is totally incorrect, M. nigra > is not hardy in most of the country. Indeed, it does not like humidity > but it also will not handle temps much below 15 F. Extensive > conversations with A.J. Bullard are the basis of my knowledge on the > subject. He is the first along with Michael at Edible Landscaping to > import M. nigra into this country. > I am working on a dichotomous key for Morus nigra, alba and rubber. > Not that this will relieve all id problems but it will be a good > start. The species have very distinct characteristics that differentiate themselves. > There are two sources so far that have added to the confusion. First, > a major seed house is offering M. nigra seeds which in fact are M > alba. Many nurseries use this seed house and end up selling mis id plants. > Secondly, A tissue culture lab is selling a dwarf nigra. I do not know > exactly what it is, I suspect alba , but it is not nigra. It doesn t > possess any of the diagnostic characteristics of nigra and it has > survived > 12 below F in a pot sitting above the soil level. Burnt Ridge is > offering one that fits this bill. I now have it from three different > sources and all are the same. > Then there is the issue of how freely alb and rubra hybridize. > > Mark > > > > > > On Mar 28, 2016, at 3:57 PM, Robert Bruns > wrote: > > > > Lee - > > > > I'm pretty sure got it from Raintree. It's a very small plant, > > still > less > > than 3 feet tall. It gets a leaf disease that doesn't affect any of > > my > M. > > Alba/rubra, maybe that's why it isn't growing > > > > With respect to hardiness, I would bet the problem isn't surviving > > the > cold > > in mid-winter, especially if the plant is fully dormant and protected. > The > > problem is that the subtropical mulberries leaf out too early in the > spring > > and then get clobbered by late frosts. > > > > Fred > > > > On Mon, Mar 28, 2016 at 12:08 PM, SC wrote: > > > >> I think the issue is that of humidity; not cold-tollerance. Mine > >> in ground 3-4 years.. occasionally bellow 0 F. > >> M. nigra -- for certain > >> > >> > >> Sent via the Samsung Galaxy S 6 active, an AT&T 4G LTE > smartphone-------- > >> Original message --------From: Lee Reich Date: > >> 3/28/2016 10:49 AM (GMT-05:00) To: mailing list at ibiblio - > >> Northamerican Allied Fruit Experimenters > >> Subject: Re: [nafex] Morus Nigra Chilling Requirements, Etc Fred, I > >> am very surprised at the amount of cold your M. nigra tolerated, > >> although we don t know just how cold it got in the unheated greenhouse. > >> Where did you get your M. nigra, because sometimes nurseries > >> mislabel > the > >> plant? > >> > >> Lee Reich, PhD > >> Come visit my farmden at http://www.leereich.com/blog < > >> http://www.leereich.com/blog> http://leereich.com/ > >> > >> > >> Books by Lee Reich: > >> A Northeast Gardener's Year > >> The Pruning Book > >> Weedless Gardening > >> Uncommon Fruits for Every Garden > >> Landscaping with Fruit > >> Grow Fruit Naturally > >> > >>> On Mar 28, 2016, at 10:25 AM, Nathan Wilson < > nathan.b.c.wilson at gmail.com> > >> wrote: > >>> > >>> Thanks very much Fred. This is exactly the sort of information I'm > >> looking > >>> for. > >>> > >>> Nathan > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> On Friday, March 25, 2016, Robert Bruns > wrote: > >>>> I have M. nigra "Noir de Spain" in a pot. I overwintered it in a > >>>> cool greenhouse where the temperature was set to 60 degrees but > >>>> got down as > >> low > >>>> as 35 on extremely cold nights. The plant sprouted about a month > >>>> ago, which implies that your option D would work. > >>>> > >>>> A few years ago, my previous greenhouse had its heater fail on a > >>>> night > >>> when > >>>> the temperature got down to minus 15. My Morus nigra survived, > >>>> but my > >>> figs > >>>> didn't. So your options A and B might work, but I think they are > iffy. > >>> In > >>>> your option C, I'm sure the plant would leaf out in the basement. > >>>> > >>>> Good luck! > >>>> > >>>> Fred > >>>> central Indiana, zone 6 (formerly zone 5b) > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> On Fri, Mar 25, 2016 at 12:11 PM, Nathan Wilson < > >>> nathan.b.c.wilson at gmail.com > >>>>> wrote: > >>>> > >>>>> Hi everyone, > >>>>> > >>>>> What are the chilling requirements of morus nigra? > >>>>> 1. Minimum chilling hours needed to ensure fruit set the next year. > >>>>> 2. Maximum temperature that 'counts' as chilling hours. > >>>>> 3. What conditions trigger the plants to break dormancy? > >>>>> 4. What are the lowest short-term and long-term temperatures the > plant > >>> will > >>>>> survive? > >>>>> > >>>>> Background information: As mentioned in a previous post, I'm in > >>>>> zone > >> 5/6 > >>>>> and have morus nigra in 87 litre (23 U.S. gal) pots. > >>>>> > >>>>> I'm weighing my options: > >>>>> A. Bury the plants in winter, just like some people do with > >>>>> figs. I'm > >> not > >>>>> sure if morus nigra is hardy enough for this. > >>>>> B. Put the plants in an unheated, detached garage over winter. I > think > >> it > >>>>> would get far too cold in January and February and would kill > >>>>> the > >> plants, > >>>>> although I haven't documented temperatures yet. > >>>>> C. Leave the plants outside until around Christmas to satisfy > chilling > >>>>> requirements, then put them in a cool basement, which is > >>>>> presently 12 > >>> deg C > >>>>> (54 deg F), and hope the plants don't break dormancy before I > >>>>> can > bring > >>>>> them back outside. > >>>>> D. Greenhouse: I have a mekeshift greenhouse setup in my cellar > >>>>> door stairway. The temperature fluctuates, but I can control it > >>>>> to a > point. > >>> The > >>>>> benefit of having the plants in the greenhouse is that I think > >>>>> it > could > >>>>> reduce the number of years it takes the plants to bear, by > >>>>> making > them > >>>>> slightly healthier and more vigorous (this was pointed out by > >>>>> Lee > >> Reich). > >>>>> But, perhaps I can't have my cake and eat it too. > >>>>> > >>>>> Any input or experiences would be appreciated. > >>>>> > >>>>> -Nathan > >>>>> __________________ > >>>>> nafex mailing list > >>>>> nafex at lists.ibiblio.org > >>>>> Northamerican Allied Fruit Experimenters > >>>>> subscribe/unsubscribe|user config|list info: > >>>>> http://lists.ibiblio.org/mailman/listinfo/nafex > >>>>> > >>>> __________________ > >>>> nafex mailing list > >>>> nafex at lists.ibiblio.org > >>>> Northamerican Allied Fruit Experimenters > >>>> subscribe/unsubscribe|user config|list info: > >>>> http://lists.ibiblio.org/mailman/listinfo/nafex > >>>> > >>> __________________ > >>> nafex mailing list > >>> nafex at lists.ibiblio.org > >>> Northamerican Allied Fruit Experimenters > >>> subscribe/unsubscribe|user config|list info: > >>> http://lists.ibiblio.org/mailman/listinfo/nafex > >> > >> __________________ > >> nafex mailing list > >> nafex at lists.ibiblio.org > >> Northamerican Allied Fruit Experimenters subscribe/unsubscribe|user > >> config|list info: > >> http://lists.ibiblio.org/mailman/listinfo/nafex > >> __________________ > >> nafex mailing list > >> nafex at lists.ibiblio.org > >> Northamerican Allied Fruit Experimenters subscribe/unsubscribe|user > >> config|list info: > >> http://lists.ibiblio.org/mailman/listinfo/nafex > >> > > __________________ > > nafex mailing list > > nafex at lists.ibiblio.org > > Northamerican Allied Fruit Experimenters subscribe/unsubscribe|user > > config|list info: > > http://lists.ibiblio.org/mailman/listinfo/nafex > > __________________ > nafex mailing list > nafex at lists.ibiblio.org > Northamerican Allied Fruit Experimenters subscribe/unsubscribe|user > config|list info: > http://lists.ibiblio.org/mailman/listinfo/nafex > __________________ nafex mailing list nafex at lists.ibiblio.org Northamerican Allied Fruit Experimenters subscribe/unsubscribe|user config|list info: http://lists.ibiblio.org/mailman/listinfo/nafex From sam739is at hotmail.com Wed Mar 30 12:41:19 2016 From: sam739is at hotmail.com (Sam Brungardt) Date: Wed, 30 Mar 2016 16:41:19 +0000 Subject: [nafex] The New Glorious Era of Manmade Fruit (NY Times) Message-ID: [https://encrypted-tbn3.gstatic.com/images%3Fq%3Dtbn:ANd9GcTjvLRha5MWvdlHLhm0AcaH9F4UcEaZH56L1b__PNHW-uiN_Ql6vUgYZpeAnXxx92vO4JDFIHum][Text Box: New York Times] New York Times The New Glorious Era of Manmade Fruit New York Times A mix of tropical and hybrid fruits recently available in the United States. Credit Photograph by Anthony Cotsifas. Styled by Michael Reynolds. [Google Plus] [Facebook] [Twitter] Flag as irrelevant From jono at regenerativedesigngroup.com Thu Mar 31 11:41:11 2016 From: jono at regenerativedesigngroup.com (Jono Neiger) Date: Thu, 31 Mar 2016 11:41:11 -0400 Subject: [nafex] fruit bags for organic production Message-ID: Hi Im wondering what people think of bagging individual fruit as in using "fruit bags" or "Japanese fruit bags" Ive thought of trying it but havent gotten around to it. And I have several clients looking for them. Any sources? (sorry if this is a repeat topic- I didnt search the archives) thanks Jono *Jono Neiger, Principal* Regenerative Design Group 1 Chevalier Avenue Greenfield, Massachusetts 01301 web. regenerativedesigngroup.com tel. 413-658-7048 From organic87 at frontiernet.net Thu Mar 31 12:18:51 2016 From: organic87 at frontiernet.net (Road's End Farm) Date: Thu, 31 Mar 2016 12:18:51 -0400 Subject: [nafex] fruit bags for organic production In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: I did order some bags from Territorial but haven't tried them yet. http://www.territorialseed.com/product/nylon-maggot-barriers Not sure whether I'll have any fruit to try them on this year, either. Most of the old trees have died and replacement trees are too young. But it's possible I'll try them on some apricots, even if it's rootstock fruit, just to see what happens. -- Rivka; Finger Lakes NY, Zone 6A now I think Fresh-market organic produce, small scale On Mar 31, 2016, at 11:41 AM, Jono Neiger wrote: > Hi > Im wondering what people think of bagging individual fruit as in using > "fruit bags" or "Japanese fruit bags" > > Ive thought of trying it but havent gotten around to it. And I have several > clients looking for them. Any sources? > > (sorry if this is a repeat topic- I didnt search the archives) > > thanks > > Jono > Massachusetts From ramoyer at gmail.com Thu Mar 31 12:41:58 2016 From: ramoyer at gmail.com (Richard Moyer) Date: Thu, 31 Mar 2016 12:41:58 -0400 Subject: [nafex] Bagging Fruit Message-ID: Do search the archives. Worked well for us to thwart coddling moth and apple maggot. We used breathable bags made of poly row cover, some have used plastic bags with holes cut in a corner to drain water... Richard Moyer SW VA Good bloom on cherries and peaches here, hope they come through the frosts/freezes. On Thu, Mar 31, 2016 at 12:19 PM, wrote: > Send nafex mailing list submissions to > nafex at lists.ibiblio.org > > To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit > http://lists.ibiblio.org/mailman/listinfo/nafex > or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to > nafex-request at lists.ibiblio.org > > You can reach the person managing the list at > nafex-owner at lists.ibiblio.org > > When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific > than "Re: Contents of nafex digest..." > > > Today's Topics: > > 1. fruit bags for organic production (Jono Neiger) > 2. Re: fruit bags for organic production (Road's End Farm) > > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > > Message: 1 > Date: Thu, 31 Mar 2016 11:41:11 -0400 > From: Jono Neiger > To: North American Fruit Explorers > Subject: [nafex] fruit bags for organic production > Message-ID: > < > CAM0CCau8qBYXDHf+v_woV-TVbZxvMwzK684JwnwnK164O0VQng at mail.gmail.com> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 > > Hi > Im wondering what people think of bagging individual fruit as in using > "fruit bags" or "Japanese fruit bags" > > Ive thought of trying it but havent gotten around to it. And I have several > clients looking for them. Any sources? > > (sorry if this is a repeat topic- I didnt search the archives) > > thanks > > Jono > > *Jono Neiger, Principal* > Regenerative Design Group > 1 Chevalier Avenue > Greenfield, Massachusetts 01301 > web. regenerativedesigngroup.com > tel. 413-658-7048 > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 2 > Date: Thu, 31 Mar 2016 12:18:51 -0400 > From: Road's End Farm > To: mailing list at ibiblio - Northamerican Allied Fruit Experimenters > > Subject: Re: [nafex] fruit bags for organic production > Message-ID: > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii > > I did order some bags from Territorial but haven't tried them yet. > > http://www.territorialseed.com/product/nylon-maggot-barriers > > Not sure whether I'll have any fruit to try them on this year, either. > Most of the old trees have died and replacement trees are too young. But > it's possible I'll try them on some apricots, even if it's rootstock fruit, > just to see what happens. > > > > -- Rivka; Finger Lakes NY, Zone 6A now I think > Fresh-market organic produce, small scale > > > On Mar 31, 2016, at 11:41 AM, Jono Neiger wrote: > > > Hi > > Im wondering what people think of bagging individual fruit as in using > > "fruit bags" or "Japanese fruit bags" > > > > Ive thought of trying it but havent gotten around to it. And I have > several > > clients looking for them. Any sources? > > > > (sorry if this is a repeat topic- I didnt search the archives) > > > > thanks > > > > Jono > > Massachusetts > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------ > > Subject: Digest Footer > > __________________ > nafex mailing list > nafex at lists.ibiblio.org > Northamerican Allied Fruit Experimenters > subscribe/unsubscribe|user config|list info: > http://lists.ibiblio.org/mailman/listinfo/nafex > > ------------------------------ > > End of nafex Digest, Vol 175, Issue 9 > ************************************* > From sherwindu at att.net Thu Mar 31 15:16:41 2016 From: sherwindu at att.net (sherwin) Date: Thu, 31 Mar 2016 14:16:41 -0500 Subject: [nafex] fruit bags for organic production In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <56FD7799.8020403@att.net> On 3/31/2016 10:41 AM, Jono Neiger wrote: > Hi > Im wondering what people think of bagging individual fruit as in using > "fruit bags" or "Japanese fruit bags" > > Ive thought of trying it but havent gotten around to it. And I have several > clients looking for them. Any sources? > > (sorry if this is a repeat topic- I didnt search the archives) > > thanks > > Jono > > *Jono Neiger, Principal* > Regenerative Design Group > 1 Chevalier Avenue > Greenfield, Massachusetts 01301 > web. regenerativedesigngroup.com > tel. 413-658-7048 > __________________ > nafex mailing list > nafex at lists.ibiblio.org > Northamerican Allied Fruit Experimenters > subscribe/unsubscribe|user config|list info: > http://lists.ibiblio.org/mailman/listinfo/nafex > Jono, I have used covers for my fruit for many years now. I have not used the Japanese bags, but think there could be a problem of their disintegration with rain and sunshine. I have had that problem with some of the nylon mesh bags that did not hold up well with rain and sun. The most durable were the plastic sandwich bags. They required slits at the bottom to allow the rain water to drain off. They were also not a perfect seal, so some bugs were able to get inside the bags. The color of the fruit was not affected by these plastic bags, but I would think the paper bags would retard this effect. Certainly, covering large amounts of fruit would be a tedious job, so I would spread out this effort over several days. The other advantage of bags is that it discourages critter attacks both on the tree and fallen fruit on the ground. They will not stop a determined critter. Sherwin Dubren Morton Grove, IL --- This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software. https://www.avast.com/antivirus From BMaybank at nexsenpruet.com Thu Mar 31 21:26:15 2016 From: BMaybank at nexsenpruet.com (Maybank, Burnet R. III) Date: Fri, 1 Apr 2016 01:26:15 +0000 Subject: [nafex] Bagging Fruit In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <3167767B-379C-4CDD-8060-E6DBBDF0DCF8@nexsenpruet.com> Sources: https://www.packcoinc.com/cloth-cotton-drawsting-parts-bags.html http://www.alibaba.com/showroom/fruit-protection-bag-mango.html Discussions: http://www.geeksongardens.com/how_7667705_protect-fruit-trees-birds-eating.html http://forums.gardenweb.com/discussions/1466911/can-you-bag-peaches-like-apples Sent from my iPhone On Mar 31, 2016, at 12:42 PM, Richard Moyer > wrote: Do search the archives. Worked well for us to thwart coddling moth and apple maggot. We used breathable bags made of poly row cover, some have used plastic bags with holes cut in a corner to drain water... Richard Moyer SW VA Good bloom on cherries and peaches here, hope they come through the frosts/freezes. On Thu, Mar 31, 2016 at 12:19 PM, > wrote: Send nafex mailing list submissions to nafex at lists.ibiblio.org To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__lists.ibiblio.org_mailman_listinfo_nafex&d=CwICAg&c=rTID8zFL-e0diXJhnyrnsnYU8VIcDlW52AybVWLBNqM&r=3q_o75mYRtGDknC9RjeuI-yJN97mF1XxYGNfVGxhomM&m=5NsHaAd_E8-WBXK1-IqvRlZQGfO_Lff-z_uwehM_T6Y&s=pFqeMpvLzRZZTUppBFTEumd1Xq7n26aVv7NOAm9B_fo&e= or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to nafex-request at lists.ibiblio.org You can reach the person managing the list at nafex-owner at lists.ibiblio.org When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific than "Re: Contents of nafex digest..." Today's Topics: 1. fruit bags for organic production (Jono Neiger) 2. Re: fruit bags for organic production (Road's End Farm) ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Message: 1 Date: Thu, 31 Mar 2016 11:41:11 -0400 From: Jono Neiger > To: North American Fruit Explorers > Subject: [nafex] fruit bags for organic production Message-ID: < CAM0CCau8qBYXDHf+v_woV-TVbZxvMwzK684JwnwnK164O0VQng at mail.gmail.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Hi Im wondering what people think of bagging individual fruit as in using "fruit bags" or "Japanese fruit bags" Ive thought of trying it but havent gotten around to it. And I have several clients looking for them. Any sources? (sorry if this is a repeat topic- I didnt search the archives) thanks Jono *Jono Neiger, Principal* Regenerative Design Group 1 Chevalier Avenue Greenfield, Massachusetts 01301 web. regenerativedesigngroup.com tel. 413-658-7048 ------------------------------ Message: 2 Date: Thu, 31 Mar 2016 12:18:51 -0400 From: Road's End Farm > To: mailing list at ibiblio - Northamerican Allied Fruit Experimenters > Subject: Re: [nafex] fruit bags for organic production Message-ID: > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii I did order some bags from Territorial but haven't tried them yet. https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__www.territorialseed.com_product_nylon-2Dmaggot-2Dbarriers&d=CwICAg&c=rTID8zFL-e0diXJhnyrnsnYU8VIcDlW52AybVWLBNqM&r=3q_o75mYRtGDknC9RjeuI-yJN97mF1XxYGNfVGxhomM&m=5NsHaAd_E8-WBXK1-IqvRlZQGfO_Lff-z_uwehM_T6Y&s=DDknLe1KnER1eiqwpo8O6ft4eFT4hEhauINjU-HyHFE&e= Not sure whether I'll have any fruit to try them on this year, either. Most of the old trees have died and replacement trees are too young. But it's possible I'll try them on some apricots, even if it's rootstock fruit, just to see what happens. -- Rivka; Finger Lakes NY, Zone 6A now I think Fresh-market organic produce, small scale On Mar 31, 2016, at 11:41 AM, Jono Neiger wrote: Hi Im wondering what people think of bagging individual fruit as in using "fruit bags" or "Japanese fruit bags" Ive thought of trying it but havent gotten around to it. And I have several clients looking for them. Any sources? (sorry if this is a repeat topic- I didnt search the archives) thanks Jono Massachusetts ------------------------------ Subject: Digest Footer __________________ nafex mailing list nafex at lists.ibiblio.org Northamerican Allied Fruit Experimenters subscribe/unsubscribe|user config|list info: https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__lists.ibiblio.org_mailman_listinfo_nafex&d=CwICAg&c=rTID8zFL-e0diXJhnyrnsnYU8VIcDlW52AybVWLBNqM&r=3q_o75mYRtGDknC9RjeuI-yJN97mF1XxYGNfVGxhomM&m=5NsHaAd_E8-WBXK1-IqvRlZQGfO_Lff-z_uwehM_T6Y&s=pFqeMpvLzRZZTUppBFTEumd1Xq7n26aVv7NOAm9B_fo&e= ------------------------------ End of nafex Digest, Vol 175, Issue 9 ************************************* __________________ nafex mailing list nafex at lists.ibiblio.org Northamerican Allied Fruit Experimenters subscribe/unsubscribe|user config|list info: https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__lists.ibiblio.org_mailman_listinfo_nafex&d=CwICAg&c=rTID8zFL-e0diXJhnyrnsnYU8VIcDlW52AybVWLBNqM&r=3q_o75mYRtGDknC9RjeuI-yJN97mF1XxYGNfVGxhomM&m=5NsHaAd_E8-WBXK1-IqvRlZQGfO_Lff-z_uwehM_T6Y&s=pFqeMpvLzRZZTUppBFTEumd1Xq7n26aVv7NOAm9B_fo&e= *** CONFIDENTIAL COMMUNICATION *** The information contained in this message may contain legally privileged and confidential information intended only for the use of the individual or entity named above. If the reader of this message is not the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any dissemination, distribution or duplication of this transmission is strictly prohibited. If you have received this communication in error, please notify us by telephone or email immediately and return the original message to us or destroy all printed and electronic copies. Nothing in this transmission is intended to be an electronic signature nor to constitute an agreement of any kind under applicable law unless otherwise expressly indicated. Intentional interception or dissemination of electronic mail not belonging to you may violate federal or state law. From JCooper at lewistonschools.net Thu Mar 31 21:56:45 2016 From: JCooper at lewistonschools.net (James A Cooper) Date: Fri, 1 Apr 2016 01:56:45 +0000 Subject: [nafex] Bagging Fruit In-Reply-To: <3167767B-379C-4CDD-8060-E6DBBDF0DCF8@nexsenpruet.com> References: , <3167767B-379C-4CDD-8060-E6DBBDF0DCF8@nexsenpruet.com> Message-ID: I have used zip-lock sandwich bags for years very successful on apples. Most other fruits I tried did not work well. I do cut the bottom corners of about 10 bags at a time and can bag hundreds of them in an hour or 2. It stops about 80% of bug damage. We do the bagging just after thinning about Memorial day in Zone 6. the apples are about the size of your finger or thumb. If too early the stem will be damaged and the apple and bag will fall soon. If too late the apple bugs will beat you too it! Most years we bag about 2000 - 3000 apples and the first weeks loose about 100 bags from the weather or the apple was just going to thin anyway, so falls with the bag. Then through the season we have many others fall early with bug holes, but still good for a trimmed early snack. Those that remain until harvest are 90% bug free and for the time and cost of the bags it is less expensive and maybe equal or probably less time to trying to spray every week and not being successful in keeping the codling moths out! and who wants to spray every week and still have 50% damaged apples when bagging will get you almost 90% even with heavy codling moth pressure! Jim Cooper Automotive Technology Lewiston High School jcooper at lewistonschools.net ________________________________________ From: nafex [nafex-bounces at lists.ibiblio.org] on behalf of Maybank, Burnet R. III [BMaybank at nexsenpruet.com] Sent: Thursday, March 31, 2016 6:26 PM To: mailing list at ibiblio - Northamerican Allied Fruit Experimenters Subject: Re: [nafex] Bagging Fruit Sources: https://www.packcoinc.com/cloth-cotton-drawsting-parts-bags.html http://www.alibaba.com/showroom/fruit-protection-bag-mango.html Discussions: http://www.geeksongardens.com/how_7667705_protect-fruit-trees-birds-eating.html http://forums.gardenweb.com/discussions/1466911/can-you-bag-peaches-like-apples Sent from my iPhone On Mar 31, 2016, at 12:42 PM, Richard Moyer > wrote: Do search the archives. Worked well for us to thwart coddling moth and apple maggot. We used breathable bags made of poly row cover, some have used plastic bags with holes cut in a corner to drain water... Richard Moyer SW VA Good bloom on cherries and peaches here, hope they come through the frosts/freezes. On Thu, Mar 31, 2016 at 12:19 PM, > wrote: Send nafex mailing list submissions to nafex at lists.ibiblio.org To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__lists.ibiblio.org_mailman_listinfo_nafex&d=CwICAg&c=rTID8zFL-e0diXJhnyrnsnYU8VIcDlW52AybVWLBNqM&r=3q_o75mYRtGDknC9RjeuI-yJN97mF1XxYGNfVGxhomM&m=5NsHaAd_E8-WBXK1-IqvRlZQGfO_Lff-z_uwehM_T6Y&s=pFqeMpvLzRZZTUppBFTEumd1Xq7n26aVv7NOAm9B_fo&e= or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to nafex-request at lists.ibiblio.org You can reach the person managing the list at nafex-owner at lists.ibiblio.org When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific than "Re: Contents of nafex digest..." Today's Topics: 1. fruit bags for organic production (Jono Neiger) 2. Re: fruit bags for organic production (Road's End Farm) ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Message: 1 Date: Thu, 31 Mar 2016 11:41:11 -0400 From: Jono Neiger > To: North American Fruit Explorers > Subject: [nafex] fruit bags for organic production Message-ID: < CAM0CCau8qBYXDHf+v_woV-TVbZxvMwzK684JwnwnK164O0VQng at mail.gmail.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Hi Im wondering what people think of bagging individual fruit as in using "fruit bags" or "Japanese fruit bags" Ive thought of trying it but havent gotten around to it. And I have several clients looking for them. Any sources? (sorry if this is a repeat topic- I didnt search the archives) thanks Jono *Jono Neiger, Principal* Regenerative Design Group 1 Chevalier Avenue Greenfield, Massachusetts 01301 web. regenerativedesigngroup.com tel. 413-658-7048 ------------------------------ Message: 2 Date: Thu, 31 Mar 2016 12:18:51 -0400 From: Road's End Farm > To: mailing list at ibiblio - Northamerican Allied Fruit Experimenters > Subject: Re: [nafex] fruit bags for organic production Message-ID: > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii I did order some bags from Territorial but haven't tried them yet. https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__www.territorialseed.com_product_nylon-2Dmaggot-2Dbarriers&d=CwICAg&c=rTID8zFL-e0diXJhnyrnsnYU8VIcDlW52AybVWLBNqM&r=3q_o75mYRtGDknC9RjeuI-yJN97mF1XxYGNfVGxhomM&m=5NsHaAd_E8-WBXK1-IqvRlZQGfO_Lff-z_uwehM_T6Y&s=DDknLe1KnER1eiqwpo8O6ft4eFT4hEhauINjU-HyHFE&e= Not sure whether I'll have any fruit to try them on this year, either. Most of the old trees have died and replacement trees are too young. But it's possible I'll try them on some apricots, even if it's rootstock fruit, just to see what happens. -- Rivka; Finger Lakes NY, Zone 6A now I think Fresh-market organic produce, small scale On Mar 31, 2016, at 11:41 AM, Jono Neiger wrote: Hi Im wondering what people think of bagging individual fruit as in using "fruit bags" or "Japanese fruit bags" Ive thought of trying it but havent gotten around to it. And I have several clients looking for them. Any sources? (sorry if this is a repeat topic- I didnt search the archives) thanks Jono Massachusetts ------------------------------ Subject: Digest Footer __________________ nafex mailing list nafex at lists.ibiblio.org Northamerican Allied Fruit Experimenters subscribe/unsubscribe|user config|list info: https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__lists.ibiblio.org_mailman_listinfo_nafex&d=CwICAg&c=rTID8zFL-e0diXJhnyrnsnYU8VIcDlW52AybVWLBNqM&r=3q_o75mYRtGDknC9RjeuI-yJN97mF1XxYGNfVGxhomM&m=5NsHaAd_E8-WBXK1-IqvRlZQGfO_Lff-z_uwehM_T6Y&s=pFqeMpvLzRZZTUppBFTEumd1Xq7n26aVv7NOAm9B_fo&e= ------------------------------ End of nafex Digest, Vol 175, Issue 9 ************************************* __________________ nafex mailing list nafex at lists.ibiblio.org Northamerican Allied Fruit Experimenters subscribe/unsubscribe|user config|list info: https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__lists.ibiblio.org_mailman_listinfo_nafex&d=CwICAg&c=rTID8zFL-e0diXJhnyrnsnYU8VIcDlW52AybVWLBNqM&r=3q_o75mYRtGDknC9RjeuI-yJN97mF1XxYGNfVGxhomM&m=5NsHaAd_E8-WBXK1-IqvRlZQGfO_Lff-z_uwehM_T6Y&s=pFqeMpvLzRZZTUppBFTEumd1Xq7n26aVv7NOAm9B_fo&e= *** CONFIDENTIAL COMMUNICATION *** The information contained in this message may contain legally privileged and confidential information intended only for the use of the individual or entity named above. If the reader of this message is not the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any dissemination, distribution or duplication of this transmission is strictly prohibited. If you have received this communication in error, please notify us by telephone or email immediately and return the original message to us or destroy all printed and electronic copies. Nothing in this transmission is intended to be an electronic signature nor to constitute an agreement of any kind under applicable law unless otherwise expressly indicated. Intentional interception or dissemination of electronic mail not belonging to you may violate federal or state law. __________________ nafex mailing list nafex at lists.ibiblio.org Northamerican Allied Fruit Experimenters subscribe/unsubscribe|user config|list info: http://lists.ibiblio.org/mailman/listinfo/nafex From chandos49 at hotmail.com Thu Mar 31 23:34:17 2016 From: chandos49 at hotmail.com (david liezen) Date: Fri, 1 Apr 2016 03:34:17 +0000 Subject: [nafex] In the bag Message-ID: I've used nylon footlets w/Kaolin from Home Orchard Society (order on their website) the past five years or more. It takes some time but I don't have to mess with them again until a few weeks before the fruit is fully ripe, when I carefully remove the li'l bags to allow better color to develop. 90% or better success rate except with Liberty, which seems to be a codling magnet and I got about 75% success with that. ( I speak of Liberty in the past tense because I sold it to make room for Hunt Russet.) Dave Liezen From list at ginda.us Thu Mar 31 23:53:46 2016 From: list at ginda.us (Ginda Fisher) Date: Thu, 31 Mar 2016 23:53:46 -0400 Subject: [nafex] fruit bags for organic production In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On Mar 31, 2016, at 11:41 AM, Jono Neiger wrote: > Hi > Im wondering what people think of bagging individual fruit as in using > "fruit bags" or "Japanese fruit bags" > > Ive thought of trying it but havent gotten around to it. And I have several > clients looking for them. Any sources? > > (sorry if this is a repeat topic- I didnt search the archives) > > thanks > > Jono I also used zip-lock baggies to protect apples for a couple of years. I cut off a corner of each bag, so they wouldn't fill with water. This did a good job of keeping out insects. More importantly, it did a surprisingly good job of keep out cedar apple rust. I have more problems with rust than with insects, due to my location and there not being many domestic apples around. But, the local critters learned that bags meant yummy food, and they selectively ate all the bagged fruit (but didn't notice all the unbagged fruit.) So I gave up. Mostly it was squirrels, which just chewed through the bags to get at the apples. But the funniest was when I found a an apple that had been 1/3 eaten, and then carefully re-sealed into the bag. I assume that was a raccoon. (The teeth marks were the right size for a raccoon, as well as the odd behavior.) Ginda Fisher eastern MA, zone 6