From applesrgoodforu at aol.com Fri Apr 1 01:02:59 2016 From: applesrgoodforu at aol.com (Dan) Date: Fri, 1 Apr 2016 01:02:59 -0400 Subject: [nafex] Bagging Fruit In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <153d033f39e-39a4-300e@webprd-m05.mail.aol.com> Here's a good Youtube on bagging. Dan applesrgoodforu at aol.com -----Original Message----- From: James A Cooper To: mailing list at ibiblio - Northamerican Allied Fruit Experimenters Sent: Thu, Mar 31, 2016 6:57 pm Subject: Re: [nafex] Bagging Fruit I have used zip-lock sandwich bags for years very successful on apples. Most other fruits I tried did not work well. I do cut the bottom corners of about 10 bags at a time and can bag hundreds of them in an hour or 2. It stops about 80% of bug damage. We do the bagging just after thinning about Memorial day in Zone 6. the apples are about the size of your finger or thumb. If too early the stem will be damaged and the apple and bag will fall soon. If too late the apple bugs will beat you too it! Most years we bag about 2000 - 3000 apples and the first weeks loose about 100 bags from the weather or the apple was just going to thin anyway, so falls with the bag. Then through the season we have many others fall early with bug holes, but still good for a trimmed early snack. Those that remain until harvest are 90% bug free and for the time and cost of the bags it is less expensive and maybe equal or probably less time to trying to spray every week and not being successful in keeping the codling moths out! and who wants to spray every week and still have 50% damaged apples when bagging will get you almost 90% even with heavy codling moth pressure! Jim Cooper Automotive Technology Lewiston High School jcooper at lewistonschools.net ________________________________________ From: nafex [nafex-bounces at lists.ibiblio.org] on behalf of Maybank, Burnet R. III [BMaybank at nexsenpruet.com] Sent: Thursday, March 31, 2016 6:26 PM To: mailing list at ibiblio - Northamerican Allied Fruit Experimenters Subject: Re: [nafex] Bagging Fruit Sources: https://www.packcoinc.com/cloth-cotton-drawsting-parts-bags.html http://www.alibaba.com/showroom/fruit-protection-bag-mango.html Discussions: http://www.geeksongardens.com/how_7667705_protect-fruit-trees-birds-eating.html http://forums.gardenweb.com/discussions/1466911/can-you-bag-peaches-like-apples Sent from my iPhone On Mar 31, 2016, at 12:42 PM, Richard Moyer > wrote: Do search the archives. Worked well for us to thwart coddling moth and apple maggot. We used breathable bags made of poly row cover, some have used plastic bags with holes cut in a corner to drain water... Richard Moyer SW VA Good bloom on cherries and peaches here, hope they come through the frosts/freezes. On Thu, Mar 31, 2016 at 12:19 PM, > wrote: Send nafex mailing list submissions to nafex at lists.ibiblio.org To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__lists.ibiblio.org_mailman_listinfo_nafex&d=CwICAg&c=rTID8zFL-e0diXJhnyrnsnYU8VIcDlW52AybVWLBNqM&r=3q_o75mYRtGDknC9RjeuI-yJN97mF1XxYGNfVGxhomM&m=5NsHaAd_E8-WBXK1-IqvRlZQGfO_Lff-z_uwehM_T6Y&s=pFqeMpvLzRZZTUppBFTEumd1Xq7n26aVv7NOAm9B_fo&e= or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to nafex-request at lists.ibiblio.org You can reach the person managing the list at nafex-owner at lists.ibiblio.org When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific than "Re: Contents of nafex digest..." Today's Topics: 1. fruit bags for organic production (Jono Neiger) 2. Re: fruit bags for organic production (Road's End Farm) ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Message: 1 Date: Thu, 31 Mar 2016 11:41:11 -0400 From: Jono Neiger > To: North American Fruit Explorers > Subject: [nafex] fruit bags for organic production Message-ID: < CAM0CCau8qBYXDHf+v_woV-TVbZxvMwzK684JwnwnK164O0VQng at mail.gmail.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Hi Im wondering what people think of bagging individual fruit as in using "fruit bags" or "Japanese fruit bags" Ive thought of trying it but havent gotten around to it. And I have several clients looking for them. Any sources? (sorry if this is a repeat topic- I didnt search the archives) thanks Jono *Jono Neiger, Principal* Regenerative Design Group 1 Chevalier Avenue Greenfield, Massachusetts 01301 web. regenerativedesigngroup.com tel. 413-658-7048 ------------------------------ Message: 2 Date: Thu, 31 Mar 2016 12:18:51 -0400 From: Road's End Farm > To: mailing list at ibiblio - Northamerican Allied Fruit Experimenters > Subject: Re: [nafex] fruit bags for organic production Message-ID: > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii I did order some bags from Territorial but haven't tried them yet. https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__www.territorialseed.com_product_nylon-2Dmaggot-2Dbarriers&d=CwICAg&c=rTID8zFL-e0diXJhnyrnsnYU8VIcDlW52AybVWLBNqM&r=3q_o75mYRtGDknC9RjeuI-yJN97mF1XxYGNfVGxhomM&m=5NsHaAd_E8-WBXK1-IqvRlZQGfO_Lff-z_uwehM_T6Y&s=DDknLe1KnER1eiqwpo8O6ft4eFT4hEhauINjU-HyHFE&e= Not sure whether I'll have any fruit to try them on this year, either. Most of the old trees have died and replacement trees are too young. But it's possible I'll try them on some apricots, even if it's rootstock fruit, just to see what happens. -- Rivka; Finger Lakes NY, Zone 6A now I think Fresh-market organic produce, small scale On Mar 31, 2016, at 11:41 AM, Jono Neiger wrote: Hi Im wondering what people think of bagging individual fruit as in using "fruit bags" or "Japanese fruit bags" Ive thought of trying it but havent gotten around to it. And I have several clients looking for them. Any sources? (sorry if this is a repeat topic- I didnt search the archives) thanks Jono Massachusetts ------------------------------ Subject: Digest Footer __________________ nafex mailing list nafex at lists.ibiblio.org Northamerican Allied Fruit Experimenters subscribe/unsubscribe|user config|list info: https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__lists.ibiblio.org_mailman_listinfo_nafex&d=CwICAg&c=rTID8zFL-e0diXJhnyrnsnYU8VIcDlW52AybVWLBNqM&r=3q_o75mYRtGDknC9RjeuI-yJN97mF1XxYGNfVGxhomM&m=5NsHaAd_E8-WBXK1-IqvRlZQGfO_Lff-z_uwehM_T6Y&s=pFqeMpvLzRZZTUppBFTEumd1Xq7n26aVv7NOAm9B_fo&e= ------------------------------ End of nafex Digest, Vol 175, Issue 9 ************************************* __________________ nafex mailing list nafex at lists.ibiblio.org Northamerican Allied Fruit Experimenters subscribe/unsubscribe|user config|list info: https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__lists.ibiblio.org_mailman_listinfo_nafex&d=CwICAg&c=rTID8zFL-e0diXJhnyrnsnYU8VIcDlW52AybVWLBNqM&r=3q_o75mYRtGDknC9RjeuI-yJN97mF1XxYGNfVGxhomM&m=5NsHaAd_E8-WBXK1-IqvRlZQGfO_Lff-z_uwehM_T6Y&s=pFqeMpvLzRZZTUppBFTEumd1Xq7n26aVv7NOAm9B_fo&e= *** CONFIDENTIAL COMMUNICATION *** The information contained in this message may contain legally privileged and confidential information intended only for the use of the individual or entity named above. If the reader of this message is not the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any dissemination, distribution or duplication of this transmission is strictly prohibited. If you have received this communication in error, please notify us by telephone or email immediately and return the original message to us or destroy all printed and electronic copies. Nothing in this transmission is intended to be an electronic signature nor to constitute an agreement of any kind under applicable law unless otherwise expressly indicated. Intentional interception or dissemination of electronic mail not belonging to you may violate federal or state law. __________________ nafex mailing list nafex at lists.ibiblio.org Northamerican Allied Fruit Experimenters subscribe/unsubscribe|user config|list info: http://lists.ibiblio.org/mailman/listinfo/nafex __________________ nafex mailing list nafex at lists.ibiblio.org Northamerican Allied Fruit Experimenters subscribe/unsubscribe|user config|list info: http://lists.ibiblio.org/mailman/listinfo/nafex From sherwindu at att.net Fri Apr 1 02:23:12 2016 From: sherwindu at att.net (sherwin) Date: Fri, 1 Apr 2016 01:23:12 -0500 Subject: [nafex] fruit bags for organic production In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <56FE13D0.5040201@att.net> On 3/31/2016 10:53 PM, Ginda Fisher wrote: > On Mar 31, 2016, at 11:41 AM, Jono Neiger wrote: > >> Hi >> Im wondering what people think of bagging individual fruit as in using >> "fruit bags" or "Japanese fruit bags" >> >> Ive thought of trying it but havent gotten around to it. And I have several >> clients looking for them. Any sources? >> >> (sorry if this is a repeat topic- I didnt search the archives) >> >> thanks >> >> Jono > I also used zip-lock baggies to protect apples for a couple of years. I cut off a corner of each bag, so they wouldn't fill with water. This did a good job of keeping out insects. More importantly, it did a surprisingly good job of keep out cedar apple rust. I have more problems with rust than with insects, due to my location and there not being many domestic apples around. > > But, the local critters learned that bags meant yummy food, and they selectively ate all the bagged fruit (but didn't notice all the unbagged fruit.) So I gave up. > > Mostly it was squirrels, which just chewed through the bags to get at the apples. But the funniest was when I found a an apple that had been 1/3 eaten, and then carefully re-sealed into the bag. I assume that was a raccoon. (The teeth marks were the right size for a raccoon, as well as the odd behavior.) > > Ginda Fisher > eastern MA, zone 6 > __________________ > nafex mailing list > nafex at lists.ibiblio.org > Northamerican Allied Fruit Experimenters > subscribe/unsubscribe|user config|list info: > http://lists.ibiblio.org/mailman/listinfo/nafex > Ginda, I found just cutting slits in the bottom of the zip-locks allowed for drainage and perhaps provided less of an entry point for the insects. The problem with zip-locks is at the fruit stem where bugs like aphids would enter. I didn't want to put in the effort, but some people add a twist tie to complete that seal at the fruit stem. Your critters seem more aggressive than mine. Mine mainly went for the fruit on the ground. The bags did slow them down a bit. My solution for the critters was to trap and remove them. A big job, at first, but then the population seemed to subside with subsequent seasons. Some of my semi-dwarfs produced a huge amount of fruit (over 200 fruits after thinning), so putting on these bags became a chore. My solution is to go for smaller trees like on M27 as I don't need huge crops. I also find that sticky traps are very effective, even without lures. I will use the bags this year, but only on my prized fruits. I may also do an occasional spray if time and opportunity present itself. Sherwin --- This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software. https://www.avast.com/antivirus From neiger at csld.edu Fri Apr 1 07:25:17 2016 From: neiger at csld.edu (Jono Neiger) Date: Fri, 1 Apr 2016 07:25:17 -0400 Subject: [nafex] Bagging Fruit In-Reply-To: References: <3167767B-379C-4CDD-8060-E6DBBDF0DCF8@nexsenpruet.com> Message-ID: Thats very helpful. Here's a source for paper bags I found. But it sounds like the plastic bags are pretty easy. - Wilson Irrigation & Orchard Supplies 1902 S. 11th St. Union Gap, WA 98903 (800) 232-1174 ($0.05 ea.) - http://www.wilsonirr.com/ecommerce/red-apple-bag-6-large.php *Jono Neiger, Principal* Regenerative Design Group 1 Chevalier Avenue Greenfield, Massachusetts 01301 web. regenerativedesigngroup.com tel. 413-658-7048 On Thu, Mar 31, 2016 at 9:56 PM, James A Cooper wrote: > I have used zip-lock sandwich bags for years very successful on apples. > Most other fruits I tried did not work well. I do cut the bottom corners of > about 10 bags at a time and can bag hundreds of them in an hour or 2. It > stops about 80% of bug damage. We do the bagging just after thinning about > Memorial day in Zone 6. the apples are about the size of your finger or > thumb. If too early the stem will be damaged and the apple and bag will > fall soon. If too late the apple bugs will beat you too it! > > Most years we bag about 2000 - 3000 apples and the first weeks loose about > 100 bags from the weather or the apple was just going to thin anyway, so > falls with the bag. Then through the season we have many others fall early > with bug holes, but still good for a trimmed early snack. Those that > remain until harvest are 90% bug free and for the time and cost of the bags > it is less expensive and maybe equal or probably less time to trying to > spray every week and not being successful in keeping the codling moths out! > and who wants to spray every week and still have 50% damaged apples when > bagging will get you almost 90% even with heavy codling moth pressure! > > Jim Cooper > Automotive Technology > Lewiston High School > jcooper at lewistonschools.net > ________________________________________ > From: nafex [nafex-bounces at lists.ibiblio.org] on behalf of Maybank, > Burnet R. III [BMaybank at nexsenpruet.com] > Sent: Thursday, March 31, 2016 6:26 PM > To: mailing list at ibiblio - Northamerican Allied Fruit Experimenters > Subject: Re: [nafex] Bagging Fruit > > Sources: > > https://www.packcoinc.com/cloth-cotton-drawsting-parts-bags.html< > https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__www.packcoinc.com_cloth-2Dcotton-2Ddrawsting-2Dparts-2Dbags.html&d=CwMFaQ&c=rTID8zFL-e0diXJhnyrnsnYU8VIcDlW52AybVWLBNqM&r=3q_o75mYRtGDknC9RjeuI-yJN97mF1XxYGNfVGxhomM&m=T4m6fSqb1itEfa8oI6bTIHNEdMKVurgsj3tbzB-QCek&s=tcI8_bEOtReM9H3BL7JatDidZuECFw9UdDNz02BZfUI&e= > > > > http://www.alibaba.com/showroom/fruit-protection-bag-mango.html< > https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__www.alibaba.com_showroom_fruit-2Dprotection-2Dbag-2Dmango.html&d=CwMFaQ&c=rTID8zFL-e0diXJhnyrnsnYU8VIcDlW52AybVWLBNqM&r=3q_o75mYRtGDknC9RjeuI-yJN97mF1XxYGNfVGxhomM&m=T4m6fSqb1itEfa8oI6bTIHNEdMKVurgsj3tbzB-QCek&s=mRIBBfrF1TZvWemIU3icbpZ3HCxctxq_qJMMrJF8giw&e= > > > > Discussions: > > > http://www.geeksongardens.com/how_7667705_protect-fruit-trees-birds-eating.html > < > https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__www.geeksongardens.com_how-5F7667705-5Fprotect-2Dfruit-2Dtrees-2Dbirds-2Deating.html&d=CwMFaQ&c=rTID8zFL-e0diXJhnyrnsnYU8VIcDlW52AybVWLBNqM&r=3q_o75mYRtGDknC9RjeuI-yJN97mF1XxYGNfVGxhomM&m=T4m6fSqb1itEfa8oI6bTIHNEdMKVurgsj3tbzB-QCek&s=QUUygUOUgm-kxX8etuNkADnoH8R37m14aCTg_a7dmjc&e= > > > > > http://forums.gardenweb.com/discussions/1466911/can-you-bag-peaches-like-apples > < > https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__forums.gardenweb.com_discussions_1466911_can-2Dyou-2Dbag-2Dpeaches-2Dlike-2Dapples&d=CwMFaQ&c=rTID8zFL-e0diXJhnyrnsnYU8VIcDlW52AybVWLBNqM&r=3q_o75mYRtGDknC9RjeuI-yJN97mF1XxYGNfVGxhomM&m=T4m6fSqb1itEfa8oI6bTIHNEdMKVurgsj3tbzB-QCek&s=IGUvL1tSzQC6LAPNy0qw15BRbx-9q9DQC29OSrmZRs4&e= > > > > > Sent from my iPhone > > On Mar 31, 2016, at 12:42 PM, Richard Moyer ramoyer at gmail.com>> wrote: > > Do search the archives. Worked well for us to thwart coddling moth and > apple maggot. We used breathable bags made of poly row cover, some have > used plastic bags with holes cut in a corner to drain water... > > Richard Moyer > SW VA > Good bloom on cherries and peaches here, hope they come through the > frosts/freezes. > > On Thu, Mar 31, 2016 at 12:19 PM, nafex-request at lists.ibiblio.org>> wrote: > > Send nafex mailing list submissions to > nafex at lists.ibiblio.org > > To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit > > https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__lists.ibiblio.org_mailman_listinfo_nafex&d=CwICAg&c=rTID8zFL-e0diXJhnyrnsnYU8VIcDlW52AybVWLBNqM&r=3q_o75mYRtGDknC9RjeuI-yJN97mF1XxYGNfVGxhomM&m=5NsHaAd_E8-WBXK1-IqvRlZQGfO_Lff-z_uwehM_T6Y&s=pFqeMpvLzRZZTUppBFTEumd1Xq7n26aVv7NOAm9B_fo&e= > or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to > nafex-request at lists.ibiblio.org nafex-request at lists.ibiblio.org> > > You can reach the person managing the list at > nafex-owner at lists.ibiblio.org > > When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific > than "Re: Contents of nafex digest..." > > > Today's Topics: > > 1. fruit bags for organic production (Jono Neiger) > 2. Re: fruit bags for organic production (Road's End Farm) > > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > > Message: 1 > Date: Thu, 31 Mar 2016 11:41:11 -0400 > From: Jono Neiger jono at regenerativedesigngroup.com>> > To: North American Fruit Explorers nafex at lists.ibiblio.org>> > Subject: [nafex] fruit bags for organic production > Message-ID: > < > CAM0CCau8qBYXDHf+v_woV-TVbZxvMwzK684JwnwnK164O0VQng at mail.gmail.com CAM0CCau8qBYXDHf+v_woV-TVbZxvMwzK684JwnwnK164O0VQng at mail.gmail.com>> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 > > Hi > Im wondering what people think of bagging individual fruit as in using > "fruit bags" or "Japanese fruit bags" > > Ive thought of trying it but havent gotten around to it. And I have several > clients looking for them. Any sources? > > (sorry if this is a repeat topic- I didnt search the archives) > > thanks > > Jono > > *Jono Neiger, Principal* > Regenerative Design Group > 1 Chevalier Avenue > Greenfield, Massachusetts 01301 > web. regenerativedesigngroup.com > tel. 413-658-7048 > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 2 > Date: Thu, 31 Mar 2016 12:18:51 -0400 > From: Road's End Farm organic87 at frontiernet.net>> > To: mailing list at ibiblio - Northamerican Allied Fruit Experimenters > > > Subject: Re: [nafex] fruit bags for organic production > Message-ID: EF997454-E3E0-44C8-B315-AF97C2D152BB at frontiernet.net>> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii > > I did order some bags from Territorial but haven't tried them yet. > > > https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__www.territorialseed.com_product_nylon-2Dmaggot-2Dbarriers&d=CwICAg&c=rTID8zFL-e0diXJhnyrnsnYU8VIcDlW52AybVWLBNqM&r=3q_o75mYRtGDknC9RjeuI-yJN97mF1XxYGNfVGxhomM&m=5NsHaAd_E8-WBXK1-IqvRlZQGfO_Lff-z_uwehM_T6Y&s=DDknLe1KnER1eiqwpo8O6ft4eFT4hEhauINjU-HyHFE&e= > > Not sure whether I'll have any fruit to try them on this year, either. > Most of the old trees have died and replacement trees are too young. But > it's possible I'll try them on some apricots, even if it's rootstock fruit, > just to see what happens. > > > > -- Rivka; Finger Lakes NY, Zone 6A now I think > Fresh-market organic produce, small scale > > > On Mar 31, 2016, at 11:41 AM, Jono Neiger wrote: > > Hi > Im wondering what people think of bagging individual fruit as in using > "fruit bags" or "Japanese fruit bags" > > Ive thought of trying it but havent gotten around to it. And I have > several > clients looking for them. Any sources? > > (sorry if this is a repeat topic- I didnt search the archives) > > thanks > > Jono > Massachusetts > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------ > > Subject: Digest Footer > > __________________ > nafex mailing list > nafex at lists.ibiblio.org > Northamerican Allied Fruit Experimenters > subscribe/unsubscribe|user config|list info: > > https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__lists.ibiblio.org_mailman_listinfo_nafex&d=CwICAg&c=rTID8zFL-e0diXJhnyrnsnYU8VIcDlW52AybVWLBNqM&r=3q_o75mYRtGDknC9RjeuI-yJN97mF1XxYGNfVGxhomM&m=5NsHaAd_E8-WBXK1-IqvRlZQGfO_Lff-z_uwehM_T6Y&s=pFqeMpvLzRZZTUppBFTEumd1Xq7n26aVv7NOAm9B_fo&e= > > ------------------------------ > > End of nafex Digest, Vol 175, Issue 9 > ************************************* > > __________________ > nafex mailing list > nafex at lists.ibiblio.org > Northamerican Allied Fruit Experimenters > subscribe/unsubscribe|user config|list info: > > https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__lists.ibiblio.org_mailman_listinfo_nafex&d=CwICAg&c=rTID8zFL-e0diXJhnyrnsnYU8VIcDlW52AybVWLBNqM&r=3q_o75mYRtGDknC9RjeuI-yJN97mF1XxYGNfVGxhomM&m=5NsHaAd_E8-WBXK1-IqvRlZQGfO_Lff-z_uwehM_T6Y&s=pFqeMpvLzRZZTUppBFTEumd1Xq7n26aVv7NOAm9B_fo&e= > > > *** CONFIDENTIAL COMMUNICATION *** The information contained in this > message may contain legally privileged and confidential information > intended only for the use of the individual or entity named above. If the > reader of this message is not the intended recipient, you are hereby > notified that any dissemination, distribution or duplication of this > transmission is strictly prohibited. If you have received this > communication in error, please notify us by telephone or email immediately > and return the original message to us or destroy all printed and electronic > copies. Nothing in this transmission is intended to be an electronic > signature nor to constitute an agreement of any kind under applicable law > unless otherwise expressly indicated. Intentional interception or > dissemination of electronic mail not belonging to you may violate federal > or state law. > > > __________________ > nafex mailing list > nafex at lists.ibiblio.org > Northamerican Allied Fruit Experimenters > subscribe/unsubscribe|user config|list info: > http://lists.ibiblio.org/mailman/listinfo/nafex > __________________ > nafex mailing list > nafex at lists.ibiblio.org > Northamerican Allied Fruit Experimenters > subscribe/unsubscribe|user config|list info: > http://lists.ibiblio.org/mailman/listinfo/nafex > From naomi at oznayim.us Fri Apr 1 10:03:57 2016 From: naomi at oznayim.us (Naomi Counides) Date: Fri, 1 Apr 2016 08:03:57 -0600 Subject: [nafex] In the bag In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <002101d18c1f$591cceb0$0b566c10$@oznayim.us> I did not use the kaolin with the footies here in Idaho. Something bit an insect sized hole right through the footie and I had plenty of coddling moth damage. Gave the footies to my sister in MA where hopefully the bugs are less aggressive. Naomi -----Original Message----- From: nafex [mailto:nafex-bounces at lists.ibiblio.org] On Behalf Of david liezen Sent: Thursday, March 31, 2016 9:34 PM To: North American Fruit Explorers Subject: [nafex] In the bag I've used nylon footlets w/Kaolin from Home Orchard Society (order on their website) the past five years or more. It takes some time but I don't have to mess with them again until a few weeks before the fruit is fully ripe, when I carefully remove the li'l bags to allow better color to develop. 90% or better success rate except with Liberty, which seems to be a codling magnet and I got about 75% success with that. ( I speak of Liberty in the past tense because I sold it to make room for Hunt Russet.) Dave Liezen __________________ nafex mailing list nafex at lists.ibiblio.org Northamerican Allied Fruit Experimenters subscribe/unsubscribe|user config|list info: http://lists.ibiblio.org/mailman/listinfo/nafex From chandos49 at hotmail.com Fri Apr 1 11:14:22 2016 From: chandos49 at hotmail.com (david liezen) Date: Fri, 1 Apr 2016 15:14:22 +0000 Subject: [nafex] In the bag In-Reply-To: <002101d18c1f$591cceb0$0b566c10$@oznayim.us> References: , <002101d18c1f$591cceb0$0b566c10$@oznayim.us> Message-ID: As I understand it, the Kaolin powder elicits a grooming response in the adult moth, often deterring her from laying at all. There may be something to the powder interfering with the newly hatched caterpillars, also. The powder and physical barrier seem to work best in concert. This year I hope to build nest boxes for violet-green swallows with the entrance 3/4" tall by 1 ?1/4" wide to keep house sparrows at bay. Each can be built from a 1 x 6" rough cut cedar plank - no perch in front. I'll put 'em just below the eave out back. ?Swallows may do a better job of coddling moth patrol than can I. If it works, I'll be cleaning next boxes each fall and putting them up each spring once the swallows arrive. Naomi: if the worm is already present in the applet you wrap, once it reaches maximum size it will chew its way out to pupate in the ground. When I put the footies on, I look each applet over for a tiny puncture mark. any with one gets thinned away and removed from the property. Dave Liezen ---------------------------------------- > From: naomi at oznayim.us > To: nafex at lists.ibiblio.org > Date: Fri, 1 Apr 2016 08:03:57 -0600 > Subject: Re: [nafex] In the bag > > I did not use the kaolin with the footies here in Idaho. Something bit an > insect sized hole right through the footie and I had plenty of coddling moth > damage. Gave the footies to my sister in MA where hopefully the bugs are > less aggressive. > Naomi > > -----Original Message----- > From: nafex [mailto:nafex-bounces at lists.ibiblio.org] On Behalf Of david > liezen > Sent: Thursday, March 31, 2016 9:34 PM > To: North American Fruit Explorers > Subject: [nafex] In the bag > > I've used nylon footlets w/Kaolin from Home Orchard Society (order on their > website) the past five years or more. It takes some time but I don't have to > mess with them again until a few weeks before the fruit is fully ripe, when > I carefully remove the li'l bags to allow better color to develop. 90% or > better success rate except with Liberty, which seems to be a codling magnet > and I got about 75% success with that. ( I speak of Liberty in the past > tense because I sold it to make room for Hunt Russet.) > > Dave Liezen > __________________ > nafex mailing list > nafex at lists.ibiblio.org > Northamerican Allied Fruit Experimenters subscribe/unsubscribe|user > config|list info: > http://lists.ibiblio.org/mailman/listinfo/nafex > > __________________ > nafex mailing list > nafex at lists.ibiblio.org > Northamerican Allied Fruit Experimenters > subscribe/unsubscribe|user config|list info: > http://lists.ibiblio.org/mailman/listinfo/nafex From lfljvenaura at gmail.com Fri Apr 1 20:59:48 2016 From: lfljvenaura at gmail.com (Lawrence London) Date: Fri, 1 Apr 2016 20:59:48 -0400 Subject: [nafex] CABI has published the following title: Title: Biocontrol of Major Grapevine Diseases: Leading Research Message-ID: a.doroszenko FYI CABI has published the following title: Title: Biocontrol of Major Grapevine Diseases: Leading Research Editors: St?phane Compant and Florence Mathieu Price: ?95 (US $160/ ?125) (Hbk) ISBN: 978 1 78064 712 8 (Hbk) Date of Publication: 31/03/16 http://www.cabi.org/bookshop/book/9781780647128 This title is also available as an eBook. Biocontrol of Major Grapevine Diseases CABI is an International Organization recognised by the UK Government under Statutory Instrument 1982 No. 1071... [image: https://10858055518597194239.googlegroups.com/attach/8c82f5d6a6fa9/image001.jpg?part=0.1&view=1&vt=ANaJVrGLU8q6M4yNW5Id3EGZwVeybZBgk0090jQX0Y_g_5qr6mSLMcEwm0Yt2ccdtRU5K0pR9CUFzsrttUyJVR5hxnY0lpIdLwriK7HV_BObVYIBf8KZRvA] -- Lawrence F. London lfljvenaura at gmail.com https://sites.google.com/site/avantgeared/ From pxbacher at gmail.com Sun Apr 3 18:48:35 2016 From: pxbacher at gmail.com (Peter Chrisbacher) Date: Sun, 3 Apr 2016 18:48:35 -0400 Subject: [nafex] Rooting Hardwood Cuttings: How Many Buds? Message-ID: Greetings Gang - I am rooting some recently acquired hardwood cuttings in 50/50 Perlite/Vermiculite. Most of my cuttings have 3 buds above "ground" level. In most cases, all three buds are now pushing leaves. What's best practice regarding the leaves? Leave all three to grow? Pinch one off (which one)? Pinch two off (which two)? I've not been so concerned in the past, but these cuttings are the only ones I'll have this season so I'd like to give them their best chance of rooting. Thanks! Pete Chrisbacher Wilmington, DE From pxbacher at gmail.com Sun Apr 3 19:07:41 2016 From: pxbacher at gmail.com (Peter Chrisbacher) Date: Sun, 3 Apr 2016 19:07:41 -0400 Subject: [nafex] Plum Grafting / Budding In-Reply-To: <57335A24-4E68-4E02-9B35-9E8943871851@frontiernet.net> References: <20160323232728.5CE7B848@m0087792.ppops.net> <57335A24-4E68-4E02-9B35-9E8943871851@frontiernet.net> Message-ID: Greetings Gang - Just a quick follow-up on my plum grafting this year - Of the 6 grafts I did, 5 are in bud break! Photos are attached. What I did (thanks to this group): 1. Waited until rootstock was past bud break and had dime-size leaves (rootstock was actively growing) 2. Used a carefully matched whip & tongue graft (scion containing 2 buds) 3. Wrapped the entire graft very tightly with a budding rubber 4. Wrapped the entire graft thoroughly with parafilm, starting below the graft and ending above it, carefully covering the lower bud with one layer of parafilm, but leaving the upper bud uncovered 5. Painted the scion top cut with tree cote to help prevent drying 6. Wrapped with foil in an inverted "bell" shape - the goal here was to protect the grafted portion from overheating, while leaving the upper end open so the buds could grow out. The foil is wrapped tightly around the rootstock JUST BELOW the graft, with the graft itself only very loosely contained within the "bell" portion of the foil. Photos are attached I hope this helps the next person! -Pete Pete Chrisbacher On Thu, Mar 24, 2016 at 9:05 AM, Road's End Farm wrote: > > On Mar 24, 2016, at 2:27 AM, fuwa fuwa usagi wrote: > > > I did not see the photos either. > > I have not seen photos with any of the emails in this thread; though some > of them have included the line > > >>> A persimmon button pushing through Parafilm. > > which I took to be possibly the title of the photo. > > > > > -- Rivka; Finger Lakes NY, Zone 6A now I think > Fresh-market organic produce, small scale > > > > > __________________ > nafex mailing list > nafex at lists.ibiblio.org > Northamerican Allied Fruit Experimenters > subscribe/unsubscribe|user config|list info: > http://lists.ibiblio.org/mailman/listinfo/nafex > -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: CameraZOOM-20160403183753576.jpg Type: image/jpeg Size: 1691174 bytes Desc: not available URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: CameraZOOM-20160403183739600.jpg Type: image/jpeg Size: 1627080 bytes Desc: not available URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: CameraZOOM-20160403183731189.jpg Type: image/jpeg Size: 1691026 bytes Desc: not available URL: From mijwiz at yahoo.com Fri Apr 8 07:20:36 2016 From: mijwiz at yahoo.com (Melissa Kacalanos) Date: Fri, 8 Apr 2016 07:20:36 -0400 Subject: [nafex] Beneficial nematodes Message-ID: <42883784-2C52-4423-B743-8BD174E17819@yahoo.com> I came across this interesting article: http://www.ars.usda.gov/is/pr/2008/080307.htm about using beneficial nematodes to fight plum curculio and borers. Has anyone here tried this? Melissa very slowly establishing a garden near Atlanta From ehilborn at mebtel.net Fri Apr 8 19:24:04 2016 From: ehilborn at mebtel.net (Elizabeth Hilborn) Date: Fri, 8 Apr 2016 19:24:04 -0400 Subject: [nafex] Beneficial nematodes In-Reply-To: <42883784-2C52-4423-B743-8BD174E17819@yahoo.com> References: <42883784-2C52-4423-B743-8BD174E17819@yahoo.com> Message-ID: <57083D94.1070902@mebtel.net> Thanks Melissa. I looked into this. The only source I can find of /Steinernema riobrave i/s BASF and the product will not be available until fall 2016. Betsy Hilborn On 4/8/2016 7:20 AM, Melissa Kacalanos wrote: > I came across this interesting article: > http://www.ars.usda.gov/is/pr/2008/080307.htm > about using beneficial nematodes to fight plum curculio and borers. Has anyone here tried this? > > Melissa > very slowly establishing a garden near Atlanta > __________________ > nafex mailing list > nafex at lists.ibiblio.org > Northamerican Allied Fruit Experimenters > subscribe/unsubscribe|user config|list info: > http://lists.ibiblio.org/mailman/listinfo/nafex > From sherwindu at att.net Sat Apr 9 01:29:54 2016 From: sherwindu at att.net (sherwin) Date: Sat, 9 Apr 2016 00:29:54 -0500 Subject: [nafex] Stone Fruit Scions Wanted Message-ID: <57089352.9000800@att.net> Hi, Can someone suggest a source for summer budwood for Pluots, Apriums, and Plumcots? Also, what is the optimum time of the year to do bud grafting of stone fruits? Is the end of the summer as effective as the middle period? Sherwin Dubren Morton Grove, IL Zone 5 --- This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software. https://www.avast.com/antivirus From jimfruth at charter.net Sun Apr 10 00:21:09 2016 From: jimfruth at charter.net (Jim Fruth) Date: Sat, 9 Apr 2016 23:21:09 -0500 Subject: [nafex] I need your opinion Message-ID: I have been searching for Cloudberry seeds for years and I finally found them for sale...online....in Russia. If I order them, what is the likelihood of getting them? Jim Fruth Pequot Lakes, MN From nathan.b.c.wilson at gmail.com Sun Apr 10 00:28:00 2016 From: nathan.b.c.wilson at gmail.com (Nathan Wilson) Date: Sun, 10 Apr 2016 00:28:00 -0400 Subject: [nafex] I need your opinion In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: http://www.twiningvinegarden.com:80/Rubus-chamaemorus-seeds-p/rubus-cham.htm= I don't know about russia, but what about Twining Vine in BC? On Sunday, April 10, 2016, Jim Fruth wrote: > I have been searching for Cloudberry seeds for years and I finally found them for sale...online....in Russia. If I order them, what is the likelihood of getting them? > > Jim Fruth > Pequot Lakes, MN > __________________ > nafex mailing list > nafex at lists.ibiblio.org > Northamerican Allied Fruit Experimenters > subscribe/unsubscribe|user config|list info: > http://lists.ibiblio.org/mailman/listinfo/nafex > From rizzolori1 at gmail.com Sun Apr 10 01:05:07 2016 From: rizzolori1 at gmail.com (Lori Rizzo) Date: Sun, 10 Apr 2016 01:05:07 -0400 Subject: [nafex] I need your opinion In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <7F53E9A1-D343-49D2-A04F-BC6BC487B636@gmail.com> I've ordered several tomatoes from Russia and have never had a problem. L.A. Rizzo Kingston, MA > On Apr 10, 2016, at 12:28 AM, Nathan Wilson wrote: > > http://www.twiningvinegarden.com:80/Rubus-chamaemorus-seeds-p/rubus-cham.htm= > > I don't know about russia, but what about Twining Vine in BC? > > >> On Sunday, April 10, 2016, Jim Fruth wrote: >> I have been searching for Cloudberry seeds for years and I finally found > them for sale...online....in Russia. If I order them, what is the > likelihood of getting them? >> >> Jim Fruth >> Pequot Lakes, MN >> __________________ >> nafex mailing list >> nafex at lists.ibiblio.org >> Northamerican Allied Fruit Experimenters >> subscribe/unsubscribe|user config|list info: >> http://lists.ibiblio.org/mailman/listinfo/nafex > __________________ > nafex mailing list > nafex at lists.ibiblio.org > Northamerican Allied Fruit Experimenters > subscribe/unsubscribe|user config|list info: > http://lists.ibiblio.org/mailman/listinfo/nafex From lfljvenaura at gmail.com Sun Apr 10 01:21:46 2016 From: lfljvenaura at gmail.com (Lawrence London) Date: Sun, 10 Apr 2016 01:21:46 -0400 Subject: [nafex] I need your opinion In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: http://www.swedishfood.com/cloudberries If you want to try you can buy cloudberry plants or seeds from Poyntzfield Herb Nursery on the Black Isle in Scotland. They provide a mail order service, including delivering overseas. http://www.poyntzfieldherbs.co.uk/catalogue2.asp?searchterm=cloudberry *CLOUDBERRY* (*Oidhreag*) * Rubus chamaemorus** P * 10cm. Native white flowered and orange berried fruit, for jams, jellies and drinks. Enjoys acidic moist conditions.Usually available in the autumn and spring. Sow the seeds outside in the autumn and cover with grit Plant - ?3.90 Seeds - ?2.00 Great article on cloudberries (multesyltet?y)(Rubus chamaemorus "cloudberry") http://mylittlenorway.com/2011/07/guide-to-cloudberries/ Seeds: Post by billw on Jan 19, 2014 at 9:06pm There is more than one thing called a Cloudberry. Rubus chamaemorus? They need a cool summer and a winter with plenty of chill hours and acid soil. I have seed. I can also supply cuttings but those work better in the fall. Read more: http://alanbishop.proboards.com/thread/7718/cloudberries-cuttings-seeds-sources#ixzz45OjyhfAr http://alanbishop.proboards.com/thread/7718/cloudberries-cuttings-seeds-sources On Sun, Apr 10, 2016 at 12:21 AM, Jim Fruth wrote: > I have been searching for Cloudberry seeds for years and I finally found > them for sale...online....in Russia. If I order them, what is the > likelihood of getting them? > > Jim Fruth > Pequot Lakes, MN > __________________ > nafex mailing list > nafex at lists.ibiblio.org > Northamerican Allied Fruit Experimenters > subscribe/unsubscribe|user config|list info: > http://lists.ibiblio.org/mailman/listinfo/nafex > -- Lawrence F. London lfljvenaura at gmail.com https://sites.google.com/site/avantgeared/ From fuwafuwausagi at muchomail.com Sun Apr 10 03:39:28 2016 From: fuwafuwausagi at muchomail.com (fuwa fuwa usagi) Date: Sun, 10 Apr 2016 00:39:28 -0700 Subject: [nafex] I need your opinion Message-ID: <20160410003928.E76B4520@m0087791.ppops.net> This link should be beneficial: https://help.cbp.gov/app/answers/detail/a_id/600/~/importing-plants-and-plant-products Please consider the risk associated with any subterfuge. tfb --- jimfruth at charter.net wrote: From: "Jim Fruth" To: Subject: [nafex] I need your opinion Date: Sat, 9 Apr 2016 23:21:09 -0500 I have been searching for Cloudberry seeds for years and I finally found them for sale...online....in Russia. If I order them, what is the likelihood of getting them? Jim Fruth Pequot Lakes, MN __________________ nafex mailing list nafex at lists.ibiblio.org Northamerican Allied Fruit Experimenters subscribe/unsubscribe|user config|list info: http://lists.ibiblio.org/mailman/listinfo/nafex _____________________________________________________________ The Free Email with so much more! =====> http://www.MuchoMail.com <===== From treehugger53ah at yahoo.com Sun Apr 10 09:17:33 2016 From: treehugger53ah at yahoo.com (Henry) Date: Sun, 10 Apr 2016 13:17:33 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [nafex] I need your opinion References: <882158486.167957.1460294253212.JavaMail.yahoo.ref@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <882158486.167957.1460294253212.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> Jim, I do hope you get some. I notice it is native in Minnesota. http://plants.usda.gov/core/profile?symbol=RUCH Have you checked with Boreal Natives? They would have a local variety. I buy some plants from them and have been pleased with the quality. Has the Russian source selected for larger or sweeter fruit? --Henry Fieldseth Minneapolis, Minnesota, zone 4 -------------------------------------------- On Sat, 4/9/16, Nathan Wilson wrote: Subject: Re: [nafex] I need your opinion To: "mailing list at ibiblio - Northamerican Allied Fruit Experimenters" Date: Saturday, April 9, 2016, 11:28 PM http://www.twiningvinegarden.com:80/Rubus-chamaemorus-seeds-p/rubus-cham.htm= I don't know about russia, but what about Twining Vine in BC? On Sunday, April 10, 2016, Jim Fruth wrote: > I have been searching for Cloudberry seeds for years and I finally found them for sale...online....in Russia.? If I order them, what is the likelihood of getting them? > > Jim Fruth > Pequot Lakes, MN > __________________ > nafex mailing list > nafex at lists.ibiblio.org > Northamerican Allied Fruit Experimenters > subscribe/unsubscribe|user config|list info: > http://lists.ibiblio.org/mailman/listinfo/nafex > __________________ nafex mailing list nafex at lists.ibiblio.org Northamerican Allied Fruit Experimenters subscribe/unsubscribe|user config|list info: http://lists.ibiblio.org/mailman/listinfo/nafex From alex at conev.org Sun Apr 10 10:57:00 2016 From: alex at conev.org (alexis) Date: Sun, 10 Apr 2016 10:57:00 -0400 Subject: [nafex] Beneficial Nematodes In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <570A69BC.4080502@conev.org> I tried them. Didn't seem to help at all. It was a dry year. My understanding is that they are sensitive to moisture. Not sure, but they didn't help my curcs at all. Alexis On 04/08/2016 07:23 PM, nafex-request at lists.ibiblio.org wrote: > Send nafex mailing list submissions to > nafex at lists.ibiblio.org > > To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit > http://lists.ibiblio.org/mailman/listinfo/nafex > or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to > nafex-request at lists.ibiblio.org > > You can reach the person managing the list at > nafex-owner at lists.ibiblio.org > > When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific > than "Re: Contents of nafex digest..." > > > Today's Topics: > > 1. Beneficial nematodes (Melissa Kacalanos) > 2. Re: Beneficial nematodes (Elizabeth Hilborn) > > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > > Message: 1 > Date: Fri, 8 Apr 2016 07:20:36 -0400 > From: Melissa Kacalanos > To: mailing list at ibiblio - Northamerican Allied Fruit Experimenters > > Subject: [nafex] Beneficial nematodes > Message-ID: <42883784-2C52-4423-B743-8BD174E17819 at yahoo.com> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii > > I came across this interesting article: > http://www.ars.usda.gov/is/pr/2008/080307.htm > about using beneficial nematodes to fight plum curculio and borers. Has anyone here tried this? > > Melissa > very slowly establishing a garden near Atlanta > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 2 > Date: Fri, 8 Apr 2016 19:24:04 -0400 > From: Elizabeth Hilborn > To: mailing list at ibiblio - Northamerican Allied Fruit Experimenters > > Subject: Re: [nafex] Beneficial nematodes > Message-ID: <57083D94.1070902 at mebtel.net> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252; format=flowed > > Thanks Melissa. I looked into this. The only source I can find of > /Steinernema riobrave i/s BASF and the product will not be available > until fall 2016. > > Betsy Hilborn > > On 4/8/2016 7:20 AM, Melissa Kacalanos wrote: >> I came across this interesting article: >> http://www.ars.usda.gov/is/pr/2008/080307.htm >> about using beneficial nematodes to fight plum curculio and borers. Has anyone here tried this? >> >> Melissa >> very slowly establishing a garden near Atlanta >> __________________ >> nafex mailing list >> nafex at lists.ibiblio.org >> Northamerican Allied Fruit Experimenters >> subscribe/unsubscribe|user config|list info: >> http://lists.ibiblio.org/mailman/listinfo/nafex >> > > > ------------------------------ > > Subject: Digest Footer > > __________________ > nafex mailing list > nafex at lists.ibiblio.org > Northamerican Allied Fruit Experimenters > subscribe/unsubscribe|user config|list info: > http://lists.ibiblio.org/mailman/listinfo/nafex > > ------------------------------ > > End of nafex Digest, Vol 176, Issue 1 > ************************************* > From ehilborn at mebtel.net Sun Apr 10 13:14:42 2016 From: ehilborn at mebtel.net (Elizabeth Hilborn) Date: Sun, 10 Apr 2016 13:14:42 -0400 Subject: [nafex] Beneficial Nematodes In-Reply-To: <570A69BC.4080502@conev.org> References: <570A69BC.4080502@conev.org> Message-ID: <570A8A02.70002@mebtel.net> On 4/10/2016 10:57 AM, alexis wrote: I tried them. Didn't seem to help at all. It was a dry year. My understanding is that they are sensitive to moisture. Not sure, but they didn't help my curcs at all. Alexis Alexis, did you use the Steinernema riobrave specifically? If so, where did you find it? *Betsy* From fuwafuwausagi at muchomail.com Sun Apr 10 18:45:05 2016 From: fuwafuwausagi at muchomail.com (fuwa fuwa usagi) Date: Sun, 10 Apr 2016 15:45:05 -0700 Subject: [nafex] to Alan (and of course all) Message-ID: <20160410154505.E76B2D80@m0087791.ppops.net> Alan, A year or two back you made a generalized comment about older strains of Golden Delicious you had access to that had, although you did not phrase it this way, superior flavor when compared to the more muted forms commonly available today. I am very curious to know how you feel Ambrosia stacks up to your older Golden Delicious strains and also where you would put Razor Russet and Grimes Golden. Your fluffy friend, tfb _____________________________________________________________ The Free Email with so much more! =====> http://www.MuchoMail.com <===== From fuwafuwausagi at muchomail.com Sun Apr 10 18:45:06 2016 From: fuwafuwausagi at muchomail.com (fuwa fuwa usagi) Date: Sun, 10 Apr 2016 15:45:06 -0700 Subject: [nafex] to Alan (and of course all) Message-ID: <20160410154506.E76B2D83@m0087791.ppops.net> Alan, A year or two back you made a generalized comment about older strains of Golden Delicious you had access to that had, although you did not phrase it this way, superior flavor when compared to the more muted forms commonly available today. I am very curious to know how you feel Ambrosia stacks up to your older Golden Delicious strains and also where you would put Razor Russet and Grimes Golden. Your fluffy friend, tfb _____________________________________________________________ The Free Email with so much more! =====> http://www.MuchoMail.com <===== From jimfruth at charter.net Sun Apr 10 22:13:00 2016 From: jimfruth at charter.net (Jim Fruth) Date: Sun, 10 Apr 2016 21:13:00 -0500 Subject: [nafex] I need your opinion In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Thank you -----Original Message----- From: Lawrence London Sent: Sunday, April 10, 2016 12:21 AM To: mailing list at ibiblio - Northamerican Allied Fruit Experimenters Subject: Re: [nafex] I need your opinion http://www.swedishfood.com/cloudberries If you want to try you can buy cloudberry plants or seeds from Poyntzfield Herb Nursery on the Black Isle in Scotland. They provide a mail order service, including delivering overseas. http://www.poyntzfieldherbs.co.uk/catalogue2.asp?searchterm=cloudberry *CLOUDBERRY* (*Oidhreag*) * Rubus chamaemorus** P * 10cm. Native white flowered and orange berried fruit, for jams, jellies and drinks. Enjoys acidic moist conditions.Usually available in the autumn and spring. Sow the seeds outside in the autumn and cover with grit Plant - ?3.90 Seeds - ?2.00 Great article on cloudberries (multesyltet?y)(Rubus chamaemorus "cloudberry") http://mylittlenorway.com/2011/07/guide-to-cloudberries/ Seeds: Post by billw on Jan 19, 2014 at 9:06pm There is more than one thing called a Cloudberry. Rubus chamaemorus? They need a cool summer and a winter with plenty of chill hours and acid soil. I have seed. I can also supply cuttings but those work better in the fall. Read more: http://alanbishop.proboards.com/thread/7718/cloudberries-cuttings-seeds-sources#ixzz45OjyhfAr http://alanbishop.proboards.com/thread/7718/cloudberries-cuttings-seeds-sources On Sun, Apr 10, 2016 at 12:21 AM, Jim Fruth wrote: > I have been searching for Cloudberry seeds for years and I finally found > them for sale...online....in Russia. If I order them, what is the > likelihood of getting them? > > Jim Fruth > Pequot Lakes, MN > __________________ > nafex mailing list > nafex at lists.ibiblio.org > Northamerican Allied Fruit Experimenters > subscribe/unsubscribe|user config|list info: > http://lists.ibiblio.org/mailman/listinfo/nafex > -- Lawrence F. London lfljvenaura at gmail.com https://sites.google.com/site/avantgeared/ __________________ nafex mailing list nafex at lists.ibiblio.org Northamerican Allied Fruit Experimenters subscribe/unsubscribe|user config|list info: http://lists.ibiblio.org/mailman/listinfo/nafex From jimfruth at charter.net Sun Apr 10 22:50:33 2016 From: jimfruth at charter.net (Jim Fruth) Date: Sun, 10 Apr 2016 21:50:33 -0500 Subject: [nafex] I need your opinion In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <1B1258733752459BA36DBDA3527107A7@OwnerPC> Thanks a bunch Nathan -----Original Message----- From: Nathan Wilson Sent: Saturday, April 09, 2016 11:28 PM To: mailing list at ibiblio - Northamerican Allied Fruit Experimenters Subject: Re: [nafex] I need your opinion http://www.twiningvinegarden.com:80/Rubus-chamaemorus-seeds-p/rubus-cham.htm= I don't know about russia, but what about Twining Vine in BC? On Sunday, April 10, 2016, Jim Fruth wrote: > I have been searching for Cloudberry seeds for years and I finally found them for sale...online....in Russia. If I order them, what is the likelihood of getting them? > > Jim Fruth > Pequot Lakes, MN > __________________ > nafex mailing list > nafex at lists.ibiblio.org > Northamerican Allied Fruit Experimenters > subscribe/unsubscribe|user config|list info: > http://lists.ibiblio.org/mailman/listinfo/nafex > __________________ nafex mailing list nafex at lists.ibiblio.org Northamerican Allied Fruit Experimenters subscribe/unsubscribe|user config|list info: http://lists.ibiblio.org/mailman/listinfo/nafex From alandhaigh at gmail.com Mon Apr 11 05:13:40 2016 From: alandhaigh at gmail.com (Alan Haigh) Date: Mon, 11 Apr 2016 05:13:40 -0400 Subject: [nafex] Old strains of Y. Delicious Message-ID: "I am very curious to know how you feel Ambrosia stacks up to your older Golden Delicious strains and also where you would put Razor Russet and Grimes Golden." I don't have much to answer this question as I've never eaten Ambrosia, Razor Russet or Grimes Golden, although I grow Grimes Golden as a nursery tree- it is clearly not terribly precocious. I'm not even especially a fan of old strain Yellow Delicious, although I consider it to be a very good apple- just not one I reach for. Goldrush pretty much fills that slot in later winter when it mellows into a crunchier and more highly flavored Yellow Delicious type. But I like it as much when it is tarter earlier in the season. My favorite old time apple last season was Esopus Spitzenberg from a site where it got up to 21 brix. Obviously, I'm inclined to apples that have some acid to go with its sugar. My palate is jaded. From lfljvenaura at gmail.com Mon Apr 11 08:49:12 2016 From: lfljvenaura at gmail.com (Lawrence London) Date: Mon, 11 Apr 2016 08:49:12 -0400 Subject: [nafex] I need your opinion In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Feedback about the nursery in Scotland with Cloudberry seeds for sale: http://www.growfruitandveg.co.uk/grapevine/feeling-fruity/cloudberry_41365.html "Can recommend Poyntzfield Herbs. I bought my Cloudberry, Crowberry and Blaeberry from them." Aug 2008, Location: Giffnock - in response to: "Yes, google is indeed your friend. Found this lot in Scotland who will either sell you a plant for ?3.40 or seeds for ?1.80" - Poyntzfield Herb Nursery - Results for cloudberry Jun 2006, Location: Warrington, Cheshire On Sun, Apr 10, 2016 at 10:13 PM, Jim Fruth wrote: > Thank you > > > > -----Original Message----- From: Lawrence London > Sent: Sunday, April 10, 2016 12:21 AM > To: mailing list at ibiblio - Northamerican Allied Fruit Experimenters > Subject: Re: [nafex] I need your opinion > > http://www.swedishfood.com/cloudberries > If you want to try you can buy cloudberry plants or seeds from Poyntzfield > Herb Nursery > > on > the Black Isle in Scotland. They provide a mail order service, including > delivering overseas. > http://www.poyntzfieldherbs.co.uk/catalogue2.asp?searchterm=cloudberry > *CLOUDBERRY* (*Oidhreag*) * Rubus chamaemorus** P * 10cm. Native white > flowered and orange berried fruit, for jams, jellies and drinks. Enjoys > acidic moist conditions.Usually available in the autumn and spring. Sow the > seeds outside in the autumn and cover with grit Plant - ?3.90 > Seeds - ?2.00 > > Great article on cloudberries (multesyltet?y)(Rubus chamaemorus > "cloudberry") > http://mylittlenorway.com/2011/07/guide-to-cloudberries/ > Seeds: > > > Post by billw on Jan 19, 2014 at 9:06pm > There is more than one thing called a Cloudberry. Rubus chamaemorus? They > need a cool summer and a winter with plenty of chill hours and acid soil. I > have seed. > I can also supply cuttings but those work better in the fall. > Read more: > > http://alanbishop.proboards.com/thread/7718/cloudberries-cuttings-seeds-sources#ixzz45OjyhfAr > > http://alanbishop.proboards.com/thread/7718/cloudberries-cuttings-seeds-sources > > > On Sun, Apr 10, 2016 at 12:21 AM, Jim Fruth wrote: > > I have been searching for Cloudberry seeds for years and I finally found >> them for sale...online....in Russia. If I order them, what is the >> likelihood of getting them? >> >> Jim Fruth >> Pequot Lakes, MN >> __________________ >> nafex mailing list >> nafex at lists.ibiblio.org >> Northamerican Allied Fruit Experimenters >> subscribe/unsubscribe|user config|list info: >> http://lists.ibiblio.org/mailman/listinfo/nafex >> >> > > > -- > Lawrence F. London > lfljvenaura at gmail.com > https://sites.google.com/site/avantgeared/ > __________________ > nafex mailing list > nafex at lists.ibiblio.org > Northamerican Allied Fruit Experimenters > subscribe/unsubscribe|user config|list info: > http://lists.ibiblio.org/mailman/listinfo/nafex > __________________ > nafex mailing list > nafex at lists.ibiblio.org > Northamerican Allied Fruit Experimenters > subscribe/unsubscribe|user config|list info: > http://lists.ibiblio.org/mailman/listinfo/nafex > -- Lawrence F. London lfljvenaura at gmail.com https://sites.google.com/site/avantgeared/ From fuwafuwausagi at muchomail.com Mon Apr 11 09:47:52 2016 From: fuwafuwausagi at muchomail.com (fuwa fuwa usagi) Date: Mon, 11 Apr 2016 06:47:52 -0700 Subject: [nafex] Old strains of Y. Delicious Message-ID: <20160411064752.E76CA490@m0087795.ppops.net> Alan, Thank you for the reply. I found it interesting. Maybe others care to share their thoughts. fluffy --- alandhaigh at gmail.com wrote: From: Alan Haigh To: nafex at lists.ibiblio.org Subject: [nafex] Old strains of Y. Delicious Date: Mon, 11 Apr 2016 05:13:40 -0400 "I am very curious to know how you feel Ambrosia stacks up to your older Golden Delicious strains and also where you would put Razor Russet and Grimes Golden." I don't have much to answer this question as I've never eaten Ambrosia, Razor Russet or Grimes Golden, although I grow Grimes Golden as a nursery tree- it is clearly not terribly precocious. I'm not even especially a fan of old strain Yellow Delicious, although I consider it to be a very good apple- just not one I reach for. Goldrush pretty much fills that slot in later winter when it mellows into a crunchier and more highly flavored Yellow Delicious type. But I like it as much when it is tarter earlier in the season. My favorite old time apple last season was Esopus Spitzenberg from a site where it got up to 21 brix. Obviously, I'm inclined to apples that have some acid to go with its sugar. My palate is jaded. __________________ nafex mailing list nafex at lists.ibiblio.org Northamerican Allied Fruit Experimenters subscribe/unsubscribe|user config|list info: http://lists.ibiblio.org/mailman/listinfo/nafex _____________________________________________________________ The Free Email with so much more! =====> http://www.MuchoMail.com <===== From alex at conev.org Mon Apr 11 11:14:04 2016 From: alex at conev.org (alexis) Date: Mon, 11 Apr 2016 11:14:04 -0400 Subject: [nafex] nematodes In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <570BBF3C.3010301@conev.org> It was a few years ago. My memory is that I did a bunch of research and mixed a couple types, but I don't remember now what the mixture was. The application instructions were pretty specific. I felt like I had a hard time distributing them in an appropriate manner. Seemed like getting them mixed/ washed into the soil was a big issue. If you just spray them on top, things dry out and I imagine they die. Alexis On 04/10/2016 06:45 PM, nafex-request at lists.ibiblio.org wrote: > Send nafex mailing list submissions to > nafex at lists.ibiblio.org > > To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit > http://lists.ibiblio.org/mailman/listinfo/nafex > or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to > nafex-request at lists.ibiblio.org > > You can reach the person managing the list at > nafex-owner at lists.ibiblio.org > > When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific > than "Re: Contents of nafex digest..." > > > Today's Topics: > > 1. Re: Beneficial Nematodes (Elizabeth Hilborn) > 2. to Alan (and of course all) (fuwa fuwa usagi) > > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > > Message: 1 > Date: Sun, 10 Apr 2016 13:14:42 -0400 > From: Elizabeth Hilborn > To: mailing list at ibiblio - Northamerican Allied Fruit Experimenters > > Subject: Re: [nafex] Beneficial Nematodes > Message-ID: <570A8A02.70002 at mebtel.net> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252; format=flowed > > On 4/10/2016 10:57 AM, alexis wrote: > > I tried them. Didn't seem to help at all. It was a dry year. My > understanding is that they are sensitive to moisture. Not sure, but they > didn't help my curcs at all. > Alexis > > > > Alexis, did you use the Steinernema riobrave specifically? If so, where > did you find it? > > *Betsy* > > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 2 > Date: Sun, 10 Apr 2016 15:45:05 -0700 > From: "fuwa fuwa usagi" > To: "mailing list at ibiblio - Northamerican Allied Fruit > Experimenters" > Subject: [nafex] to Alan (and of course all) > Message-ID: <20160410154505.E76B2D80 at m0087791.ppops.net> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" > > Alan, > > A year or two back you made a generalized comment about older strains of Golden Delicious you had access to that had, although you did not phrase it this way, superior flavor when compared to the more muted forms commonly available today. > > I am very curious to know how you feel Ambrosia stacks up to your older Golden Delicious strains and also where you would put Razor Russet and Grimes Golden. > > Your fluffy friend, > > tfb > > > > _____________________________________________________________ > The Free Email with so much more! > =====> http://www.MuchoMail.com <===== > > > ------------------------------ > > Subject: Digest Footer > > __________________ > nafex mailing list > nafex at lists.ibiblio.org > Northamerican Allied Fruit Experimenters > subscribe/unsubscribe|user config|list info: > http://lists.ibiblio.org/mailman/listinfo/nafex > > ------------------------------ > > End of nafex Digest, Vol 176, Issue 7 > ************************************* > From lfljvenaura at gmail.com Sun Apr 17 00:29:01 2016 From: lfljvenaura at gmail.com (Lawrence London) Date: Sun, 17 Apr 2016 00:29:01 -0400 Subject: [nafex] Des Pommes & des Hommes Message-ID: Des Pommes & des Hommes http://hommespommes.fr/ From sherwindu at att.net Thu Apr 21 03:41:10 2016 From: sherwindu at att.net (sherwin) Date: Thu, 21 Apr 2016 02:41:10 -0500 Subject: [nafex] Looking for Summer Budwood Message-ID: <57188416.6040202@att.net> Hi, I'm looking for some special varieties of stone fruit budwood that I can use this summer. I'm specifically looking for sources for pluots, plumcots, apriums, or any other of these combination fruits. Also, certain plums would be of interest. I have searched the web, but most of the larger scion suppliers have shut down for the season. Sherwin Dubren Morton Grove, IL --- This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software. https://www.avast.com/antivirus From ehilborn at mebtel.net Sun Apr 24 13:27:47 2016 From: ehilborn at mebtel.net (Elizabeth Hilborn) Date: Sun, 24 Apr 2016 13:27:47 -0400 Subject: [nafex] Nurse limbs - which grafting situations need them, where are they counterproductive? In-Reply-To: <42883784-2C52-4423-B743-8BD174E17819@yahoo.com> References: <42883784-2C52-4423-B743-8BD174E17819@yahoo.com> Message-ID: <571D0213.6030801@mebtel.net> I have had good experiences using nurse limbs when grafting to apple and pear root sprouts. However, now I am grafting to native persimmon rootsprouts and wonder if nurse limbs will be counterproductive by drawing too much energy and nutrients away from my graft. Does any one have experience using this technique and would consider it beneficial when grafting to persimmon, pawpaw or hickory? Betsy Hilborn From jwlehmantree at gmail.com Sun Apr 24 14:39:50 2016 From: jwlehmantree at gmail.com (Jerry Lehman) Date: Sun, 24 Apr 2016 14:39:50 -0400 Subject: [nafex] Nurse limbs - which grafting situations need them, where are they counterproductive? In-Reply-To: <571D0213.6030801@mebtel.net> References: <42883784-2C52-4423-B743-8BD174E17819@yahoo.com> <571D0213.6030801@mebtel.net> Message-ID: <571D12F6.60702@gmail.com> On 4/24/2016 1:27 PM, Elizabeth Hilborn wrote: > I have had good experiences using nurse limbs when grafting to apple > and pear root sprouts. However, now I am grafting to native persimmon > rootsprouts and wonder if nurse limbs will be counterproductive by > drawing too much energy and nutrients away from my graft. > > Does any one have experience using this technique and would consider > it beneficial when grafting to persimmon, pawpaw or hickory? Hello Betsy, I never use nurse limbs for the very reason that you stated above, I cut everything off below the graft. And on all species. There was a member of the Indiana Nut and Fruit Growers whose name was Jim Wood who had many nut trees, especially pecan. Because of the problem of bleeding when grafting nut trees he developed what he called the " Sap Stopper Graft. " He did a lot of grafting on pecan trees 6 inches in diameter and more. What he did was cut about half way through a six-inch tree for example then push the top over on the ground so that was still attached. This seemed to divert the sap from the cut area which he then grafted. Then after the graft was well-established and growing he would finish cutting off the half that was now laying on the ground. I've seen some of his work and it seemed like is a viable method. Jerry From alex at conev.org Sun Apr 24 17:31:42 2016 From: alex at conev.org (alexis) Date: Sun, 24 Apr 2016 17:31:42 -0400 Subject: [nafex] nurse limbs In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <571D3B3E.70708@conev.org> My experience is that the question of nurse limbs relates more to size that to species. On larger caliper rootstock (anything over an inch maybe) a nurse limb is a must. Just too much shock to the root otherwise. On smaller stuff, the nurse limb is generally not necessary (in my experience....) I do a lot of "field grating" persimmons. Smaller stuff always does fine without a nurse limb. I have never noticed that nurse limbs do much harm either. The "sapping away energy" has not been a problem in my experience. On transplanted rootstock, I will sometimes leave live material from the rootstock on there, to help support the root, for the first summer at least (on a spring graft). You HAVE to take that away next year, and stay on top of it thereafter. two cents alexis On 04/24/2016 02:40 PM, nafex-request at lists.ibiblio.org wrote: > Send nafex mailing list submissions to > nafex at lists.ibiblio.org > > To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit > http://lists.ibiblio.org/mailman/listinfo/nafex > or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to > nafex-request at lists.ibiblio.org > > You can reach the person managing the list at > nafex-owner at lists.ibiblio.org > > When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific > than "Re: Contents of nafex digest..." > > > Today's Topics: > > 1. Nurse limbs - which grafting situations need them, where are > they counterproductive? (Elizabeth Hilborn) > 2. Re: Nurse limbs - which grafting situations need them, where > are they counterproductive? (Jerry Lehman) > > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > > Message: 1 > Date: Sun, 24 Apr 2016 13:27:47 -0400 > From: Elizabeth Hilborn > To: mailing list at ibiblio - Northamerican Allied Fruit Experimenters > > Subject: [nafex] Nurse limbs - which grafting situations need them, > where are they counterproductive? > Message-ID: <571D0213.6030801 at mebtel.net> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252; format=flowed > > I have had good experiences using nurse limbs when grafting to apple and > pear root sprouts. However, now I am grafting to native persimmon > rootsprouts and wonder if nurse limbs will be counterproductive by > drawing too much energy and nutrients away from my graft. > > Does any one have experience using this technique and would consider it > beneficial when grafting to persimmon, pawpaw or hickory? > > Betsy Hilborn > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 2 > Date: Sun, 24 Apr 2016 14:39:50 -0400 > From: Jerry Lehman > To: mailing list at ibiblio - Northamerican Allied Fruit Experimenters > > Subject: Re: [nafex] Nurse limbs - which grafting situations need > them, where are they counterproductive? > Message-ID: <571D12F6.60702 at gmail.com> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252; format=flowed > > On 4/24/2016 1:27 PM, Elizabeth Hilborn wrote: >> I have had good experiences using nurse limbs when grafting to apple >> and pear root sprouts. However, now I am grafting to native persimmon >> rootsprouts and wonder if nurse limbs will be counterproductive by >> drawing too much energy and nutrients away from my graft. >> >> Does any one have experience using this technique and would consider >> it beneficial when grafting to persimmon, pawpaw or hickory? > Hello Betsy, > > I never use nurse limbs for the very reason that you stated above, I cut > everything off below the graft. And on all species. > > There was a member of the Indiana Nut and Fruit Growers whose name was > Jim Wood who had many nut trees, especially pecan. Because of the > problem of bleeding when grafting nut trees he developed what he called > the " Sap Stopper Graft. " He did a lot of grafting on pecan trees 6 > inches in diameter and more. What he did was cut about half way through > a six-inch tree for example then push the top over on the ground so that > was still attached. This seemed to divert the sap from the cut area > which he then grafted. Then after the graft was well-established and > growing he would finish cutting off the half that was now laying on the > ground. I've seen some of his work and it seemed like is a viable method. > > Jerry > > > ------------------------------ > > Subject: Digest Footer > > __________________ > nafex mailing list > nafex at lists.ibiblio.org > Northamerican Allied Fruit Experimenters > subscribe/unsubscribe|user config|list info: > http://lists.ibiblio.org/mailman/listinfo/nafex > > ------------------------------ > > End of nafex Digest, Vol 178, Issue 2 > ************************************* > From YearRoundGardening at comcast.net Mon Apr 25 16:59:14 2016 From: YearRoundGardening at comcast.net (Bob Randall) Date: Mon, 25 Apr 2016 15:59:14 -0500 Subject: [nafex] fruit bags for organic production In-Reply-To: <56FE13D0.5040201@att.net> References: <56FE13D0.5040201@att.net> Message-ID: I have been using bags on high value fruit where there aren?t more than 30 or so for many years. Generally I use wooden clothespins to fix them. What I use is fiberglass window screening cut with scissors into double layer pockets and stapled with office stapler on 3 sides. These are very durable, easy to make, very cheap, and last a very long time. If birds are an issue, you need to get them on before color changes. Fiberglass window screening is about $6 or so for 50 ft by 4 ft. Maybe 16 double layer pockets. You can use a hacksaw on the roles of screening. This year I am also trying something new? dark ?knee-high? women?s short stockings also pinned with clothespins. These also are very cheap?$5 or so for around 50. Don?t know how long they will last, but should keep off everything and they dry very quickly and very light weight. Bob Randall "Share What You Grow and What You Know!" Bob Randall, Ph.D. YearRoundGardening at comcast.net http://yearroundgardening.me home/office: 713-661-9737 cell 832-317-8983 > On Apr 1, 2016, at 1:23 AM, sherwin wrote: > > On 3/31/2016 10:53 PM, Ginda Fisher wrote: >> On Mar 31, 2016, at 11:41 AM, Jono Neiger wrote: >> >>> Hi >>> Im wondering what people think of bagging individual fruit as in using >>> "fruit bags" or "Japanese fruit bags" >>> >>> Ive thought of trying it but havent gotten around to it. And I have several >>> clients looking for them. Any sources? >>> >>> (sorry if this is a repeat topic- I didnt search the archives) >>> >>> thanks >>> >>> Jono >> I also used zip-lock baggies to protect apples for a couple of years. I cut off a corner of each bag, so they wouldn't fill with water. This did a good job of keeping out insects. More importantly, it did a surprisingly good job of keep out cedar apple rust. I have more problems with rust than with insects, due to my location and there not being many domestic apples around. >> >> But, the local critters learned that bags meant yummy food, and they selectively ate all the bagged fruit (but didn't notice all the unbagged fruit.) So I gave up. >> >> Mostly it was squirrels, which just chewed through the bags to get at the apples. But the funniest was when I found a an apple that had been 1/3 eaten, and then carefully re-sealed into the bag. I assume that was a raccoon. (The teeth marks were the right size for a raccoon, as well as the odd behavior.) >> >> Ginda Fisher >> eastern MA, zone 6 >> __________________ >> nafex mailing list >> nafex at lists.ibiblio.org >> Northamerican Allied Fruit Experimenters >> subscribe/unsubscribe|user config|list info: >> http://lists.ibiblio.org/mailman/listinfo/nafex >> > Ginda, > > I found just cutting slits in the bottom of the zip-locks allowed for drainage and perhaps provided less of an entry point > for the insects. The problem with zip-locks is at the fruit stem where bugs like aphids would enter. I didn't want to put > in the effort, but some people add a twist tie to complete that seal at the fruit stem. > > Your critters seem more aggressive than mine. Mine mainly went for the fruit on the ground. The bags did slow them down > a bit. My solution for the critters was to trap and remove them. A big job, at first, but then the population seemed to > subside with subsequent seasons. > > Some of my semi-dwarfs produced a huge amount of fruit (over 200 fruits after thinning), so putting on these bags became > a chore. My solution is to go for smaller trees like on M27 as I don't need huge crops. I also find that sticky traps are very > effective, even without lures. I will use the bags this year, but only on my prized fruits. I may also do an occasional spray > if time and opportunity present itself. > > Sherwin > > --- > This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software. > https://www.avast.com/antivirus > > __________________ > nafex mailing list > nafex at lists.ibiblio.org > Northamerican Allied Fruit Experimenters > subscribe/unsubscribe|user config|list info: > http://lists.ibiblio.org/mailman/listinfo/nafex From sherwindu at att.net Tue Apr 26 00:55:26 2016 From: sherwindu at att.net (sherwin) Date: Mon, 25 Apr 2016 23:55:26 -0500 Subject: [nafex] fruit bags for organic production In-Reply-To: References: <56FE13D0.5040201@att.net> Message-ID: <571EF4BE.6080601@att.net> On 4/25/2016 3:59 PM, Bob Randall wrote: > I have been using bags on high value fruit where there aren?t more than 30 or so for many years. > > Generally I use wooden clothespins to fix them. > > What I use is fiberglass window screening cut with scissors into double layer pockets and stapled with office stapler on 3 sides. These are very durable, easy to make, very cheap, and last a very long time. If birds are an issue, you need to get them on before color changes. Fiberglass window screening is about $6 or so for 50 ft by 4 ft. Maybe 16 double layer pockets. You can use a hacksaw on the roles of screening. > > This year I am also trying something new? dark ?knee-high? women?s short stockings also pinned with clothespins. These also are very cheap?$5 or so for around 50. Don?t know how long they will last, but should keep off everything and they dry very quickly and very light weight. > > Bob Randall > > > "Share What You Grow and What You Know!" > > Bob Randall, Ph.D. > YearRoundGardening at comcast.net > http://yearroundgardening.me > home/office: 713-661-9737 > cell 832-317-8983 > > > > > > > >> On Apr 1, 2016, at 1:23 AM, sherwin wrote: >> >> On 3/31/2016 10:53 PM, Ginda Fisher wrote: >>> On Mar 31, 2016, at 11:41 AM, Jono Neiger wrote: >>> >>>> Hi >>>> Im wondering what people think of bagging individual fruit as in using >>>> "fruit bags" or "Japanese fruit bags" >>>> >>>> Ive thought of trying it but havent gotten around to it. And I have several >>>> clients looking for them. Any sources? >>>> >>>> (sorry if this is a repeat topic- I didnt search the archives) >>>> >>>> thanks >>>> >>>> Jono >>> I also used zip-lock baggies to protect apples for a couple of years. I cut off a corner of each bag, so they wouldn't fill with water. This did a good job of keeping out insects. More importantly, it did a surprisingly good job of keep out cedar apple rust. I have more problems with rust than with insects, due to my location and there not being many domestic apples around. >>> >>> But, the local critters learned that bags meant yummy food, and they selectively ate all the bagged fruit (but didn't notice all the unbagged fruit.) So I gave up. >>> >>> Mostly it was squirrels, which just chewed through the bags to get at the apples. But the funniest was when I found a an apple that had been 1/3 eaten, and then carefully re-sealed into the bag. I assume that was a raccoon. (The teeth marks were the right size for a raccoon, as well as the odd behavior.) >>> >>> Ginda Fisher >>> eastern MA, zone 6 >>> __________________ >>> nafex mailing list >>> nafex at lists.ibiblio.org >>> Northamerican Allied Fruit Experimenters >>> subscribe/unsubscribe|user config|list info: >>> http://lists.ibiblio.org/mailman/listinfo/nafex >>> >> Ginda, >> >> I found just cutting slits in the bottom of the zip-locks allowed for drainage and perhaps provided less of an entry point >> for the insects. The problem with zip-locks is at the fruit stem where bugs like aphids would enter. I didn't want to put >> in the effort, but some people add a twist tie to complete that seal at the fruit stem. >> >> Your critters seem more aggressive than mine. Mine mainly went for the fruit on the ground. The bags did slow them down >> a bit. My solution for the critters was to trap and remove them. A big job, at first, but then the population seemed to >> subside with subsequent seasons. >> >> Some of my semi-dwarfs produced a huge amount of fruit (over 200 fruits after thinning), so putting on these bags became >> a chore. My solution is to go for smaller trees like on M27 as I don't need huge crops. I also find that sticky traps are very >> effective, even without lures. I will use the bags this year, but only on my prized fruits. I may also do an occasional spray >> if time and opportunity present itself. >> >> Sherwin >> >> --- >> The nylon approach has been tried and not been too successful. The nylon breaks down in the sun. I'm not sure if the mesh bags sold were fiberglass, or not. However, I found the more aggressive insects like Apple Maggot would go through those. Something to consider. I like the ziplock bags with slits cut at the bottom for rain drainage. They do need a fastener at the fruit stem to do a complete seal. Sherwin --- This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software. https://www.avast.com/antivirus From mijwiz at yahoo.com Tue Apr 26 06:54:01 2016 From: mijwiz at yahoo.com (Melissa Kacalanos) Date: Tue, 26 Apr 2016 06:54:01 -0400 Subject: [nafex] fruit bags for organic production In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: There was a discussion of this on gardenweb. I've read of people using lightweight row cover material, cut and stapled into bag shapes. There was also a recommendation of sewn cotton bags for sale online cheaply somewhere. Haven't tried it myself. Melissa Sent from my iPhone (pardon my brevity). > On Mar 31, 2016, at 11:41 AM, Jono Neiger wrote: > > Hi > Im wondering what people think of bagging individual fruit as in using > "fruit bags" or "Japanese fruit bags" > > Ive thought of trying it but havent gotten around to it. And I have several > clients looking for them. Any sources? > > (sorry if this is a repeat topic- I didnt search the archives) > > thanks > > Jono > > *Jono Neiger, Principal* > Regenerative Design Group > 1 Chevalier Avenue > Greenfield, Massachusetts 01301 > web. regenerativedesigngroup.com > tel. 413-658-7048 > __________________ > nafex mailing list > nafex at lists.ibiblio.org > Northamerican Allied Fruit Experimenters > subscribe/unsubscribe|user config|list info: > http://lists.ibiblio.org/mailman/listinfo/nafex From YearRoundGardening at comcast.net Wed Apr 27 11:48:41 2016 From: YearRoundGardening at comcast.net (Bob Randall) Date: Wed, 27 Apr 2016 10:48:41 -0500 Subject: [nafex] fruit bags for organic production In-Reply-To: <571EF4BE.6080601@att.net> References: <56FE13D0.5040201@att.net> <571EF4BE.6080601@att.net> Message-ID: <0A881A8C-21A7-40A7-8FD3-14AA5F28650A@comcast.net> I?ll give it a try. I am in a hot humid very wet place (Houston 9b+/10a-) and possibly our sun and humidity would make the fruit either cooked or boiled in plastic, but again maybe not. "Share What You Grow and What You Know!" Bob Randall, Ph.D. YearRoundGardening at comcast.net http://yearroundgardening.me home/office: 713-661-9737 cell 832-317-8983 > On Apr 25, 2016, at 11:55 PM, sherwin wrote: > > On 4/25/2016 3:59 PM, Bob Randall wrote: >> I have been using bags on high value fruit where there aren?t more than 30 or so for many years. >> >> Generally I use wooden clothespins to fix them. >> >> What I use is fiberglass window screening cut with scissors into double layer pockets and stapled with office stapler on 3 sides. These are very durable, easy to make, very cheap, and last a very long time. If birds are an issue, you need to get them on before color changes. Fiberglass window screening is about $6 or so for 50 ft by 4 ft. Maybe 16 double layer pockets. You can use a hacksaw on the roles of screening. >> >> This year I am also trying something new? dark ?knee-high? women?s short stockings also pinned with clothespins. These also are very cheap?$5 or so for around 50. Don?t know how long they will last, but should keep off everything and they dry very quickly and very light weight. >> >> Bob Randall >> >> >> "Share What You Grow and What You Know!" >> >> Bob Randall, Ph.D. >> YearRoundGardening at comcast.net >> http://yearroundgardening.me >> home/office: 713-661-9737 >> cell 832-317-8983 >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >>> On Apr 1, 2016, at 1:23 AM, sherwin wrote: >>> >>> On 3/31/2016 10:53 PM, Ginda Fisher wrote: >>>> On Mar 31, 2016, at 11:41 AM, Jono Neiger wrote: >>>> >>>>> Hi >>>>> Im wondering what people think of bagging individual fruit as in using >>>>> "fruit bags" or "Japanese fruit bags" >>>>> >>>>> Ive thought of trying it but havent gotten around to it. And I have several >>>>> clients looking for them. Any sources? >>>>> >>>>> (sorry if this is a repeat topic- I didnt search the archives) >>>>> >>>>> thanks >>>>> >>>>> Jono >>>> I also used zip-lock baggies to protect apples for a couple of years. I cut off a corner of each bag, so they wouldn't fill with water. This did a good job of keeping out insects. More importantly, it did a surprisingly good job of keep out cedar apple rust. I have more problems with rust than with insects, due to my location and there not being many domestic apples around. >>>> >>>> But, the local critters learned that bags meant yummy food, and they selectively ate all the bagged fruit (but didn't notice all the unbagged fruit.) So I gave up. >>>> >>>> Mostly it was squirrels, which just chewed through the bags to get at the apples. But the funniest was when I found a an apple that had been 1/3 eaten, and then carefully re-sealed into the bag. I assume that was a raccoon. (The teeth marks were the right size for a raccoon, as well as the odd behavior.) >>>> >>>> Ginda Fisher >>>> eastern MA, zone 6 >>>> __________________ >>>> nafex mailing list >>>> nafex at lists.ibiblio.org >>>> Northamerican Allied Fruit Experimenters >>>> subscribe/unsubscribe|user config|list info: >>>> http://lists.ibiblio.org/mailman/listinfo/nafex >>>> >>> Ginda, >>> >>> I found just cutting slits in the bottom of the zip-locks allowed for drainage and perhaps provided less of an entry point >>> for the insects. The problem with zip-locks is at the fruit stem where bugs like aphids would enter. I didn't want to put >>> in the effort, but some people add a twist tie to complete that seal at the fruit stem. >>> >>> Your critters seem more aggressive than mine. Mine mainly went for the fruit on the ground. The bags did slow them down >>> a bit. My solution for the critters was to trap and remove them. A big job, at first, but then the population seemed to >>> subside with subsequent seasons. >>> >>> Some of my semi-dwarfs produced a huge amount of fruit (over 200 fruits after thinning), so putting on these bags became >>> a chore. My solution is to go for smaller trees like on M27 as I don't need huge crops. I also find that sticky traps are very >>> effective, even without lures. I will use the bags this year, but only on my prized fruits. I may also do an occasional spray >>> if time and opportunity present itself. >>> >>> Sherwin >>> >>> --- >>> > The nylon approach has been tried and not been too successful. The nylon breaks down in the sun. > > I'm not sure if the mesh bags sold were fiberglass, or not. However, I found the more aggressive insects > like Apple Maggot would go through those. Something to consider. I like the ziplock bags with slits cut > at the bottom for rain drainage. They do need a fastener at the fruit stem to do a complete seal. > > Sherwin > > --- > This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software. > https://www.avast.com/antivirus > > __________________ > nafex mailing list > nafex at lists.ibiblio.org > Northamerican Allied Fruit Experimenters > subscribe/unsubscribe|user config|list info: > http://lists.ibiblio.org/mailman/listinfo/nafex From orders at cuttsreviews.com Wed Apr 27 21:38:47 2016 From: orders at cuttsreviews.com (Jay Cutts) Date: Wed, 27 Apr 2016 19:38:47 -0600 Subject: [nafex] fruit trees in containers Message-ID: <572169A7.8050804@cuttsreviews.com> I'm considering trying to grow fruit trees such as dwarf peaches, plums, cherries in containers. We're at 7000 feet in New Mexico. They can be outside during the growing season but in the winter I'll need to 1) make sure they get their chilling hours but 2) keep the rootball from freezing to the point that the plant is killed. Does anyone have any idea how much freezing the rootballs could take? The containers will be stored sitting on the ground, so they are exposed. Is it a matter of how cold they get or how long they are frozen? In the ground the roots would be frozen most of the winter but the temperature might not get as cold as when the roots are in a pot? The benefit of pot growing would be that I can move the plants indoors or into a protected spot once they flower and avoid the lethal effects of late frosts. But then I have to worry about pollination. Any ideas? -- Regards, Jay Jay Cutts Director, Cutts Graduate Reviews Lead Author, Barron's MCAT Prep Book Lead Author, Barron's MCAT Flash Cards Lead Author, Barron's LSAT Prep Book (505)-281-0684 10 am to 10 pm Mt Time, 7 days From sherwindu at att.net Wed Apr 27 21:42:51 2016 From: sherwindu at att.net (sherwin) Date: Wed, 27 Apr 2016 20:42:51 -0500 Subject: [nafex] fruit trees in containers In-Reply-To: <572169A7.8050804@cuttsreviews.com> References: <572169A7.8050804@cuttsreviews.com> Message-ID: <57216A9B.9030205@att.net> On 4/27/2016 8:38 PM, Jay Cutts wrote: > I'm considering trying to grow fruit trees such as dwarf peaches, > plums, cherries in containers. We're at 7000 feet in New Mexico. > > They can be outside during the growing season but in the winter I'll > need to 1) make sure they get their chilling hours but 2) keep the > rootball from freezing to the point that the plant is killed. > > Does anyone have any idea how much freezing the rootballs could take? > The containers will be stored sitting on the ground, so they are > exposed. Is it a matter of how cold they get or how long they are frozen? > > In the ground the roots would be frozen most of the winter but the > temperature might not get as cold as when the roots are in a pot? > > The benefit of pot growing would be that I can move the plants indoors > or into a protected spot once they flower and avoid the lethal effects > of late frosts. But then I have to worry about pollination. > > Any ideas? > Unless you have a huge number of blossoms, you could do hand pollination with a cotton Q-tip. Sherwin --- This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software. https://www.avast.com/antivirus From CEvanko at civconinc.com Thu Apr 28 11:02:17 2016 From: CEvanko at civconinc.com (Craig Evankoe) Date: Thu, 28 Apr 2016 15:02:17 +0000 Subject: [nafex] fruit trees in pots In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <1461855742297.52815@civconinc.com> The difficulty with growing fruit in pots is to keep them frozen during the winter. I had 3 apples on M-27 in 24" plastic pots for about 5 years. I would keep them in an unheated greenhouse and pack them with bags of dry leaves. The abrupt changes in temperature : freeze-thaw-freeze-thaw is what kills them. The trees all survived BTW and I ended up giving them away. I plan to do it again this year with a new set of apples. If you can bury them in the ground, pot and all, I'm sure they would make it. You may need to cover them above ground with some sort of insulation like leaves or a blanket. Craig ________________________________________ I'm considering trying to grow fruit trees such as dwarf peaches, plums, cherries in containers. We're at 7000 feet in New Mexico. They can be outside during the growing season but in the winter I'll need to 1) make sure they get their chilling hours but 2) keep the rootball from freezing to the point that the plant is killed. Does anyone have any idea how much freezing the rootballs could take? The containers will be stored sitting on the ground, so they are exposed. Is it a matter of how cold they get or how long they are frozen? In the ground the roots would be frozen most of the winter but the temperature might not get as cold as when the roots are in a pot? The benefit of pot growing would be that I can move the plants indoors or into a protected spot once they flower and avoid the lethal effects of late frosts. But then I have to worry about pollination. Any ideas? From vmb at teakettlefarm.com Thu Apr 28 11:08:24 2016 From: vmb at teakettlefarm.com (V. Michael Bove, Jr.) Date: Thu, 28 Apr 2016 11:08:24 -0400 Subject: [nafex] no peaches this year :-( Message-ID: <6B9BC105-7CE1-45C4-A620-D6C25703A20C@teakettlefarm.com> The seventies-then-below-zero weather we had in late winter here killed the flower buds on all six varieties of our peaches. Plums (myrobalan), apricots, apples, and pears all seem to be flowering more or less normally, but no idea yet about fruit set. Anyone else on the list get clobbered? We also lost the flower buds on our magnolia tree and forsythia bushes. Michael Bove Teakettle Farm, Z6 (MA/RI border) From pxbacher at gmail.com Thu Apr 28 11:12:10 2016 From: pxbacher at gmail.com (Peter Chrisbacher) Date: Thu, 28 Apr 2016 11:12:10 -0400 Subject: [nafex] no peaches this year :-( In-Reply-To: <6B9BC105-7CE1-45C4-A620-D6C25703A20C@teakettlefarm.com> References: <6B9BC105-7CE1-45C4-A620-D6C25703A20C@teakettlefarm.com> Message-ID: No mulberries (alba) this year in northern DE, at least in my yard. On Apr 28, 2016 11:08 AM, "V. Michael Bove, Jr." wrote: > The seventies-then-below-zero weather we had in late winter here killed > the flower buds on all six varieties of our peaches. Plums (myrobalan), > apricots, apples, and pears all seem to be flowering more or less normally, > but no idea yet about fruit set. > > Anyone else on the list get clobbered? We also lost the flower buds on > our magnolia tree and forsythia bushes. > > Michael Bove > Teakettle Farm, Z6 (MA/RI border) > __________________ > nafex mailing list > nafex at lists.ibiblio.org > Northamerican Allied Fruit Experimenters > subscribe/unsubscribe|user config|list info: > http://lists.ibiblio.org/mailman/listinfo/nafex > From lpittman at murraystate.edu Thu Apr 28 12:35:47 2016 From: lpittman at murraystate.edu (Dr. Lucky Pittman) Date: Thu, 28 Apr 2016 11:35:47 -0500 Subject: [nafex] no peaches this year :-( In-Reply-To: <6B9BC105-7CE1-45C4-A620-D6C25703A20C@teakettlefarm.com> References: <6B9BC105-7CE1-45C4-A620-D6C25703A20C@teakettlefarm.com> Message-ID: <004b01d1a16c$051ea790$0f5bf6b0$@murraystate.edu> Yikes! Sorry to hear that. We escaped any serious damage, so far as I can tell at this point, this year. But I can identify with you... back in 2007, we'd had an inordinately warm Feb/March...with almost everything breaking dormancy... then Easter arrived, with four consecutive nights of temperatures dropping into the 'teens. Many plants had 6-10 inches of tender new growth that was killed back. Almost all Carpathian walnuts, heartnuts, persimmons were killed back to their rootstock - amazingly, though, most of the Asian persimmons I had at that time were still dormant. Seedling heartnuts were killed outright. Big mature hickories and oaks in my forest were killed back to main trunk. Subsequent to the Easter Big Freeze Disaster, we went from May 10 to Nov 30 with a single 1" rain event... a lot of mature trees succumbed to the double-whammy of freeze and drought. Lucky -----Original Message----- From: nafex [mailto:nafex-bounces at lists.ibiblio.org] On Behalf Of V. Michael Bove, Jr. Sent: Thursday, April 28, 2016 10:08 AM To: nafex at lists.ibiblio.org Subject: [nafex] no peaches this year :-( The seventies-then-below-zero weather we had in late winter here killed the flower buds on all six varieties of our peaches. Plums (myrobalan), apricots, apples, and pears all seem to be flowering more or less normally, but no idea yet about fruit set. Anyone else on the list get clobbered? We also lost the flower buds on our magnolia tree and forsythia bushes. Michael Bove Teakettle Farm, Z6 (MA/RI border) __________________ nafex mailing list nafex at lists.ibiblio.org Northamerican Allied Fruit Experimenters subscribe/unsubscribe|user config|list info: http://lists.ibiblio.org/mailman/listinfo/nafex From sherwindu at att.net Thu Apr 28 12:34:37 2016 From: sherwindu at att.net (sherwin) Date: Thu, 28 Apr 2016 11:34:37 -0500 Subject: [nafex] fruit trees in containers In-Reply-To: <572169A7.8050804@cuttsreviews.com> References: <572169A7.8050804@cuttsreviews.com> Message-ID: <4c3cc1ba-a614-34e7-ee27-1bc450d77e48@att.net> On 4/27/2016 8:38 PM, Jay Cutts wrote: > I'm considering trying to grow fruit trees such as dwarf peaches, > plums, cherries in containers. We're at 7000 feet in New Mexico. > > They can be outside during the growing season but in the winter I'll > need to 1) make sure they get their chilling hours but 2) keep the > rootball from freezing to the point that the plant is killed. > > Does anyone have any idea how much freezing the rootballs could take? > The containers will be stored sitting on the ground, so they are > exposed. Is it a matter of how cold they get or how long they are frozen? > > In the ground the roots would be frozen most of the winter but the > temperature might not get as cold as when the roots are in a pot? > > The benefit of pot growing would be that I can move the plants indoors > or into a protected spot once they flower and avoid the lethal effects > of late frosts. But then I have to worry about pollination. > > Any ideas? > I bury my pots in the raised bed garden here in Illinois, and that appears to protect them. However, in checking freezing depths for Illinois, it could go down to 50 inches, so I wonder now if this is adequate protection. In your case, being at a higher altitude could mean a lower depth of the ground freezing. I would check with your local sources as to what depth your ground freezes before using a buried pot as any protection. Sherwin --- This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software. https://www.avast.com/antivirus From ehilborn at mebtel.net Thu Apr 28 13:13:18 2016 From: ehilborn at mebtel.net (Elizabeth Hilborn) Date: Thu, 28 Apr 2016 13:13:18 -0400 Subject: [nafex] fruit trees in containers In-Reply-To: <4c3cc1ba-a614-34e7-ee27-1bc450d77e48@att.net> References: <572169A7.8050804@cuttsreviews.com> <4c3cc1ba-a614-34e7-ee27-1bc450d77e48@att.net> Message-ID: <572244AE.9010208@mebtel.net> On 4/28/2016 12:34 PM, sherwin wrote: > On 4/27/2016 8:38 PM, Jay Cutts wrote: >> I'm considering trying to grow fruit trees such as dwarf peaches, >> plums, cherries in containers. We're at 7000 feet in New Mexico. >> >> They can be outside during the growing season but in the winter I'll >> need to 1) make sure they get their chilling hours but 2) keep the >> rootball from freezing to the point that the plant is killed. >> >> Does anyone have any idea how much freezing the rootballs could take? >> The containers will be stored sitting on the ground, so they are >> exposed. Is it a matter of how cold they get or how long they are >> frozen? >> >> In the ground the roots would be frozen most of the winter but the >> temperature might not get as cold as when the roots are in a pot? >> >> The benefit of pot growing would be that I can move the plants >> indoors or into a protected spot once they flower and avoid the >> lethal effects of late frosts. But then I have to worry about >> pollination. >> >> Any ideas? >> > I am in a warmer climate, but I had to hold young fruit and nut tree graftlings and seedlings over the winter in narrow tree pots. They are in deep pots and burying them was not an option. I pushed the pots close together in the corner of an unheated structure. I packed all gaps between the pots with hay and rolled up wet newspapers. I surrounded the group with 5 gallon buckets filled with water and made sure there were no air spaces between buckets and pots (more hay and wet rolled up newspaper). I kept them watered weekly over the winter. They have all but one (9/10 plants) survived the winter and are leafing out. I am not sure this type of insulated above ground method would work in your colder climate. We had a relatively mild (predominantly >10 degree F) winter. Betsy Hilborn From ehilborn at mebtel.net Thu Apr 28 13:33:20 2016 From: ehilborn at mebtel.net (Elizabeth Hilborn) Date: Thu, 28 Apr 2016 13:33:20 -0400 Subject: [nafex] no peaches this year :-( In-Reply-To: <6B9BC105-7CE1-45C4-A620-D6C25703A20C@teakettlefarm.com> References: <6B9BC105-7CE1-45C4-A620-D6C25703A20C@teakettlefarm.com> Message-ID: <57224960.8030507@mebtel.net> We had many fruits leafed out from a warm Feb and March when the freezes occurred. I noticed severe freeze damage to foliage of persimmons and kiwi. No kiwi fruit this year, all the blossoms were frozen. Leaves of Nanking cherries, goumi, filberts, pears, Cornelian cherries, dog rose and apples look mostly OK. Goumi fruit is developing, I am not sure about the others. Keiffer pears had set fruit and they have been frozen and aborted. Some fireblight developing in damaged blooms. Rabbiteye blueberries that had set fruit were frozen, but I am hopeful for some yields from later blooms. Juneberries had not yet bloomed and have set fruit normally. Pawpaw flowers were frozen, some blooms continue, so there is hope for a small crop this year. Mulberries just leafing out and fruit looks unaffected. Muscadines had not leafed out so were unaffected. Early growth on pecans was lost, some oaks may not have a crop of acorns as blossoms damaged, leaves somewhat scorched. Chestnut leaves were damaged, hickories and black walnuts emerged with the muscadines and seem to be OK. I agree with Lucky, the Easter freeze of 2007 was worse. I did not see any ice flowers or exploding tree branches this spring. I did notice severe winter damage to trunks of kiwis and Asian persimmons though... They must have had significant sap flowing that froze during the cold nights. Betsy Hilborn 7a, NC On 4/28/2016 11:08 AM, V. Michael Bove, Jr. wrote: > The seventies-then-below-zero weather we had in late winter here killed the flower buds on all six varieties of our peaches. Plums (myrobalan), apricots, apples, and pears all seem to be flowering more or less normally, but no idea yet about fruit set. > > Anyone else on the list get clobbered? We also lost the flower buds on our magnolia tree and forsythia bushes. > > Michael Bove > Teakettle Farm, Z6 (MA/RI border) > __________________ > nafex mailing list > nafex at lists.ibiblio.org > Northamerican Allied Fruit Experimenters > subscribe/unsubscribe|user config|list info: > http://lists.ibiblio.org/mailman/listinfo/nafex > From sherwindu at att.net Thu Apr 28 13:51:32 2016 From: sherwindu at att.net (sherwin) Date: Thu, 28 Apr 2016 12:51:32 -0500 Subject: [nafex] no peaches this year :-( In-Reply-To: <6B9BC105-7CE1-45C4-A620-D6C25703A20C@teakettlefarm.com> References: <6B9BC105-7CE1-45C4-A620-D6C25703A20C@teakettlefarm.com> Message-ID: <257fef91-af0f-4f08-20c1-d5619cb31a3c@att.net> On 4/28/2016 10:08 AM, V. Michael Bove, Jr. wrote: > The seventies-then-below-zero weather we had in late winter here killed the flower buds on all six varieties of our peaches. Plums (myrobalan), apricots, apples, and pears all seem to be flowering more or less normally, but no idea yet about fruit set. > > Anyone else on the list get clobbered? We also lost the flower buds on our magnolia tree and forsythia bushes. > > Michael Bove > Teakettle Farm, Z6 (MA/RI border) > __________________ > nafex mailing list > nafex at lists.ibiblio.org > Northamerican Allied Fruit Experimenters > subscribe/unsubscribe|user config|list info: > http://lists.ibiblio.org/mailman/listinfo/nafex > I lost my Moorpark Apricots to fluctuating temperatures, this year. Not uncommon here in Illinois. My plums, peaches, sour cherries, pears, and apples seem to be blossoming out ok. I am surprised your apricots outlasted your peaches. You must have a very late blooming apricot, as most of the apricots here are the first to flower out. Sherwin --- This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software. https://www.avast.com/antivirus From btnutrition at aol.com Thu Apr 28 13:54:12 2016 From: btnutrition at aol.com (Nutritional Solutions) Date: Thu, 28 Apr 2016 13:54:12 -0400 Subject: [nafex] fruit trees at elevation In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <1545e01ba06-5932-18c7@webprd-m22.mail.aol.com> You might glean some tips from Jerome Osentowski at Central Rocky Mountain Permaculture Institute (CRMPI). He grows fruit trees in a permaculture system in Basalt Colorado at over 6,600' elevation. www.youtube.com/watch?v=ehBQUJJwQpE When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific than "Re: Contents of nafex digest..." Today's Topics: 1. fruit trees in containers (Jay Cutts) 2. Re: fruit trees in containers (sherwin) Attached Message From Jay Cutts To nafex at lists.ibiblio.org Subject [nafex] fruit trees in containers Date Wed, 27 Apr 2016 19:38:47 -0600 I'm considering trying to grow fruit trees such as dwarf peaches, plums, cherries in containers. We're at 7000 feet in New Mexico.... From ramoyer at gmail.com Thu Apr 28 14:51:06 2016 From: ramoyer at gmail.com (Richard Moyer) Date: Thu, 28 Apr 2016 14:51:06 -0400 Subject: [nafex] No Peaches this year Message-ID: Here in SW VA, we also had a mild winter, and some things bloomed out early. Hardest hit were Nanking Cherries and Peaches. As another noted, many/most pawpaw blooms hurt. Apples look OK. We've never lost juneberry blooms or fruit to winter or spring freezes. Last winter (2015) we reached 24F below zero, here at 1800' and just 25 miles from NE TN. This killed most mulberries outright, and killed major limbs on certain peach trees. Killed some caneberries back as well. Agreed that Easter 2007 freeze the most damage in memory; we lost 10 of 12 kaki persimmon cultivars; little to no fruit that year in most things we grow. As Lucky noted, when the native trees sustain major damage, you know it's an unusual freeze. Major challenge here this year has been spring drought. One farmer said in his county, March-midApril was the driest in recorded history. We had some rain over the last week, but 30 miles south of here in NE TN, it's still so dry that the young leaves on Juneberry bushes are wilted and curling. They may have received some rain last night... Richard Moyer Castlewood, SW VA Juneberry cobbler for breakfast, blueberry pancakes for lunch---freezers a wonderful invention for fruit lovers. From organic87 at frontiernet.net Thu Apr 28 15:16:15 2016 From: organic87 at frontiernet.net (Road's End Farm) Date: Thu, 28 Apr 2016 15:16:15 -0400 Subject: [nafex] no peaches this year :-( In-Reply-To: <6B9BC105-7CE1-45C4-A620-D6C25703A20C@teakettlefarm.com> References: <6B9BC105-7CE1-45C4-A620-D6C25703A20C@teakettlefarm.com> Message-ID: <1081A07B-348E-4418-ABD9-FF5765F597B2@frontiernet.net> On Apr 28, 2016, at 11:08 AM, V. Michael Bove, Jr. wrote: > The seventies-then-below-zero weather we had in late winter here killed the flower buds on all six varieties of our peaches. Plums (myrobalan), apricots, apples, and pears all seem to be flowering more or less normally, but no idea yet about fruit set. > > Anyone else on the list get clobbered? We also lost the flower buds on our magnolia tree and forsythia bushes. > > Michael Bove > Teakettle Farm, Z6 (MA/RI border) > __________________ I've been told that there won't be a peach crop in this general area, because buds were too far advanced when we hit 8?F. I haven't any bearing age peaches this year. I do have bloom coming on the old pear tree, however; and most appears to be undamaged. -- Rivka; Finger Lakes NY, Zone 6A now I think Fresh-market organic produce, small scale From lpittman at murraystate.edu Thu Apr 28 15:37:51 2016 From: lpittman at murraystate.edu (Dr. Lucky Pittman) Date: Thu, 28 Apr 2016 14:37:51 -0500 Subject: [nafex] No Peaches this year In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <000301d1a185$73e36620$5baa3260$@murraystate.edu> Winter 2014-15 was worse here than I'd realized, based on what I *felt* like the temps were... Killed my blackberries back to the snowline. Killed blossom buds on virtually every pear, apple, plum and blueberry. My blueberry crop... off of 30+ bushes... was SIX berries. Mulberries and strawberries accounted for the only successful fruit harvest in 2015. Thus far, 2016 looks like everything is going to be GOOD! (And I'll keep hoping that!) Lucky -----Original Message----- From: nafex [mailto:nafex-bounces at lists.ibiblio.org] On Behalf Of Richard Moyer Sent: Thursday, April 28, 2016 1:51 PM To: nafex Subject: Re: [nafex] No Peaches this year Here in SW VA, we also had a mild winter, and some things bloomed out early. Hardest hit were Nanking Cherries and Peaches. As another noted, many/most pawpaw blooms hurt. Apples look OK. We've never lost juneberry blooms or fruit to winter or spring freezes. Last winter (2015) we reached 24F below zero, here at 1800' and just 25 miles from NE TN. This killed most mulberries outright, and killed major limbs on certain peach trees. Killed some caneberries back as well. Agreed that Easter 2007 freeze the most damage in memory; we lost 10 of 12 kaki persimmon cultivars; little to no fruit that year in most things we grow. As Lucky noted, when the native trees sustain major damage, you know it's an unusual freeze. Major challenge here this year has been spring drought. One farmer said in his county, March-midApril was the driest in recorded history. We had some rain over the last week, but 30 miles south of here in NE TN, it's still so dry that the young leaves on Juneberry bushes are wilted and curling. They may have received some rain last night... Richard Moyer Castlewood, SW VA Juneberry cobbler for breakfast, blueberry pancakes for lunch---freezers a wonderful invention for fruit lovers. __________________ nafex mailing list nafex at lists.ibiblio.org Northamerican Allied Fruit Experimenters subscribe/unsubscribe|user config|list info: http://lists.ibiblio.org/mailman/listinfo/nafex From benhasgonewalking at gmail.com Fri Apr 29 12:45:06 2016 From: benhasgonewalking at gmail.com (Ben Clements) Date: Fri, 29 Apr 2016 12:45:06 -0400 Subject: [nafex] Morus Nigra Chilling Requirements, Etc In-Reply-To: <000e01d189cc$dca1f3f0$95e5dbd0$@net> References: <000e01d189cc$dca1f3f0$95e5dbd0$@net> Message-ID: Thanks Idell. Will ask around for verified morus nigra scions next winter/spring. They would likely need to come from Canada due to shipping limitation. I imagine my best bet would be British Columbia, where allegedly morus nigra overwinters in the ground. On Mar 29, 2016 11:08 AM, "Idell Weydemeyer" wrote: > Black mulberries can be grafted onto white mulberries. Probably someone > has scions that could be mailed. Mine has already broken dormancy so could > not be mailed by me. My Morus nigra has black tipped buds and my Morus alba > has white tipped buds . > > Perhaps you can buy a tree and keep it small in a large pot. > > Idell Weydemeyer Zone 9a El Sobrante, CA > > -----Original Message----- > From: nafex [mailto:nafex-bounces at lists.ibiblio.org] On Behalf Of Nathan > Wilson > Sent: Tuesday, March 29, 2016 7:27 AM > To: mailing list at ibiblio - Northamerican Allied Fruit Experimenters > Subject: Re: [nafex] Morus Nigra Chilling Requirements, Etc > > Thanks Mark. Looking forward to seeing that dichotomous key. > > I just recently ordered supposed morus nigra seed from Trade Winds Fruit. > Maybe it is true morus nigra or maybe it isn't; time will tell. > Where can one purchase true/verified morus nigra seed? > > -Nathan > > On Mon, Mar 28, 2016 at 10:06 PM, mark wessel > wrote: > > > Greetings All > > > > What a mixed up and confusing genus with nurseries offering mis > > identified plants only adding to the confusion. > > Unless past knowledge about Morus nigra is totally incorrect, M. nigra > > is not hardy in most of the country. Indeed, it does not like humidity > > but it also will not handle temps much below 15 F. Extensive > > conversations with A.J. Bullard are the basis of my knowledge on the > > subject. He is the first along with Michael at Edible Landscaping to > > import M. nigra into this country. > > I am working on a dichotomous key for Morus nigra, alba and rubber. > > Not that this will relieve all id problems but it will be a good > > start. The species have very distinct characteristics that differentiate > themselves. > > There are two sources so far that have added to the confusion. First, > > a major seed house is offering M. nigra seeds which in fact are M > > alba. Many nurseries use this seed house and end up selling mis id > plants. > > Secondly, A tissue culture lab is selling a dwarf nigra. I do not know > > exactly what it is, I suspect alba , but it is not nigra. It doesn t > > possess any of the diagnostic characteristics of nigra and it has > > survived > > 12 below F in a pot sitting above the soil level. Burnt Ridge is > > offering one that fits this bill. I now have it from three different > > sources and all are the same. > > Then there is the issue of how freely alb and rubra hybridize. > > > > Mark > > > > > > > > > > > On Mar 28, 2016, at 3:57 PM, Robert Bruns > > wrote: > > > > > > Lee - > > > > > > I'm pretty sure got it from Raintree. It's a very small plant, > > > still > > less > > > than 3 feet tall. It gets a leaf disease that doesn't affect any of > > > my > > M. > > > Alba/rubra, maybe that's why it isn't growing > > > > > > With respect to hardiness, I would bet the problem isn't surviving > > > the > > cold > > > in mid-winter, especially if the plant is fully dormant and protected. > > The > > > problem is that the subtropical mulberries leaf out too early in the > > spring > > > and then get clobbered by late frosts. > > > > > > Fred > > > > > > On Mon, Mar 28, 2016 at 12:08 PM, SC wrote: > > > > > >> I think the issue is that of humidity; not cold-tollerance. Mine > > >> in ground 3-4 years.. occasionally bellow 0 F. > > >> M. nigra -- for certain > > >> > > >> > > >> Sent via the Samsung Galaxy S 6 active, an AT&T 4G LTE > > smartphone-------- > > >> Original message --------From: Lee Reich Date: > > >> 3/28/2016 10:49 AM (GMT-05:00) To: mailing list at ibiblio - > > >> Northamerican Allied Fruit Experimenters > > >> Subject: Re: [nafex] Morus Nigra Chilling Requirements, Etc Fred, I > > >> am very surprised at the amount of cold your M. nigra tolerated, > > >> although we don t know just how cold it got in the unheated > greenhouse. > > >> Where did you get your M. nigra, because sometimes nurseries > > >> mislabel > > the > > >> plant? > > >> > > >> Lee Reich, PhD > > >> Come visit my farmden at http://www.leereich.com/blog < > > >> http://www.leereich.com/blog> http://leereich.com/ > > >> > > >> > > >> Books by Lee Reich: > > >> A Northeast Gardener's Year > > >> The Pruning Book > > >> Weedless Gardening > > >> Uncommon Fruits for Every Garden > > >> Landscaping with Fruit > > >> Grow Fruit Naturally > > >> > > >>> On Mar 28, 2016, at 10:25 AM, Nathan Wilson < > > nathan.b.c.wilson at gmail.com> > > >> wrote: > > >>> > > >>> Thanks very much Fred. This is exactly the sort of information I'm > > >> looking > > >>> for. > > >>> > > >>> Nathan > > >>> > > >>> > > >>> > > >>> On Friday, March 25, 2016, Robert Bruns > > wrote: > > >>>> I have M. nigra "Noir de Spain" in a pot. I overwintered it in a > > >>>> cool greenhouse where the temperature was set to 60 degrees but > > >>>> got down as > > >> low > > >>>> as 35 on extremely cold nights. The plant sprouted about a month > > >>>> ago, which implies that your option D would work. > > >>>> > > >>>> A few years ago, my previous greenhouse had its heater fail on a > > >>>> night > > >>> when > > >>>> the temperature got down to minus 15. My Morus nigra survived, > > >>>> but my > > >>> figs > > >>>> didn't. So your options A and B might work, but I think they are > > iffy. > > >>> In > > >>>> your option C, I'm sure the plant would leaf out in the basement. > > >>>> > > >>>> Good luck! > > >>>> > > >>>> Fred > > >>>> central Indiana, zone 6 (formerly zone 5b) > > >>>> > > >>>> > > >>>> On Fri, Mar 25, 2016 at 12:11 PM, Nathan Wilson < > > >>> nathan.b.c.wilson at gmail.com > > >>>>> wrote: > > >>>> > > >>>>> Hi everyone, > > >>>>> > > >>>>> What are the chilling requirements of morus nigra? > > >>>>> 1. Minimum chilling hours needed to ensure fruit set the next year. > > >>>>> 2. Maximum temperature that 'counts' as chilling hours. > > >>>>> 3. What conditions trigger the plants to break dormancy? > > >>>>> 4. What are the lowest short-term and long-term temperatures the > > plant > > >>> will > > >>>>> survive? > > >>>>> > > >>>>> Background information: As mentioned in a previous post, I'm in > > >>>>> zone > > >> 5/6 > > >>>>> and have morus nigra in 87 litre (23 U.S. gal) pots. > > >>>>> > > >>>>> I'm weighing my options: > > >>>>> A. Bury the plants in winter, just like some people do with > > >>>>> figs. I'm > > >> not > > >>>>> sure if morus nigra is hardy enough for this. > > >>>>> B. Put the plants in an unheated, detached garage over winter. I > > think > > >> it > > >>>>> would get far too cold in January and February and would kill > > >>>>> the > > >> plants, > > >>>>> although I haven't documented temperatures yet. > > >>>>> C. Leave the plants outside until around Christmas to satisfy > > chilling > > >>>>> requirements, then put them in a cool basement, which is > > >>>>> presently 12 > > >>> deg C > > >>>>> (54 deg F), and hope the plants don't break dormancy before I > > >>>>> can > > bring > > >>>>> them back outside. > > >>>>> D. Greenhouse: I have a mekeshift greenhouse setup in my cellar > > >>>>> door stairway. The temperature fluctuates, but I can control it > > >>>>> to a > > point. > > >>> The > > >>>>> benefit of having the plants in the greenhouse is that I think > > >>>>> it > > could > > >>>>> reduce the number of years it takes the plants to bear, by > > >>>>> making > > them > > >>>>> slightly healthier and more vigorous (this was pointed out by > > >>>>> Lee > > >> Reich). > > >>>>> But, perhaps I can't have my cake and eat it too. > > >>>>> > > >>>>> Any input or experiences would be appreciated. > > >>>>> > > >>>>> -Nathan > > >>>>> __________________ > > >>>>> nafex mailing list > > >>>>> nafex at lists.ibiblio.org > > >>>>> Northamerican Allied Fruit Experimenters > > >>>>> subscribe/unsubscribe|user config|list info: > > >>>>> http://lists.ibiblio.org/mailman/listinfo/nafex > > >>>>> > > >>>> __________________ > > >>>> nafex mailing list > > >>>> nafex at lists.ibiblio.org > > >>>> Northamerican Allied Fruit Experimenters > > >>>> subscribe/unsubscribe|user config|list info: > > >>>> http://lists.ibiblio.org/mailman/listinfo/nafex > > >>>> > > >>> __________________ > > >>> nafex mailing list > > >>> nafex at lists.ibiblio.org > > >>> Northamerican Allied Fruit Experimenters > > >>> subscribe/unsubscribe|user config|list info: > > >>> http://lists.ibiblio.org/mailman/listinfo/nafex > > >> > > >> __________________ > > >> nafex mailing list > > >> nafex at lists.ibiblio.org > > >> Northamerican Allied Fruit Experimenters subscribe/unsubscribe|user > > >> config|list info: > > >> http://lists.ibiblio.org/mailman/listinfo/nafex > > >> __________________ > > >> nafex mailing list > > >> nafex at lists.ibiblio.org > > >> Northamerican Allied Fruit Experimenters subscribe/unsubscribe|user > > >> config|list info: > > >> http://lists.ibiblio.org/mailman/listinfo/nafex > > >> > > > __________________ > > > nafex mailing list > > > nafex at lists.ibiblio.org > > > Northamerican Allied Fruit Experimenters subscribe/unsubscribe|user > > > config|list info: > > > http://lists.ibiblio.org/mailman/listinfo/nafex > > > > __________________ > > nafex mailing list > > nafex at lists.ibiblio.org > > Northamerican Allied Fruit Experimenters subscribe/unsubscribe|user > > config|list info: > > http://lists.ibiblio.org/mailman/listinfo/nafex > > > __________________ > nafex mailing list > nafex at lists.ibiblio.org > Northamerican Allied Fruit Experimenters subscribe/unsubscribe|user > config|list info: > http://lists.ibiblio.org/mailman/listinfo/nafex > > __________________ > nafex mailing list > nafex at lists.ibiblio.org > Northamerican Allied Fruit Experimenters > subscribe/unsubscribe|user config|list info: > http://lists.ibiblio.org/mailman/listinfo/nafex > From fuwafuwausagi at muchomail.com Sat Apr 30 19:04:24 2016 From: fuwafuwausagi at muchomail.com (fuwa fuwa usagi) Date: Sat, 30 Apr 2016 16:04:24 -0700 Subject: [nafex] Advice on disease resistant apples for Charlotte NC Message-ID: <20160430160424.67DD6CB8@m0087797.ppops.net> I have a growing handful of friends in and around Charlotte NC. They have expressed some interest in dwarf apple trees and I am not sure what disease varieties would perform well there. I am thinking along the lines of early, mid-early, mid and late. So perhaps Williams Pride, Dayton, Liberty, Gold Rush? I just have no idea how any varieties will taste in that area. For example I suspect Liberty may not develop flavor without cool nights but I also here it does well in warmer climates. Advice much appreciated. the fluffy one _____________________________________________________________ The Free Email with so much more! =====> http://www.MuchoMail.com <===== From applesrgoodforu at aol.com Sat Apr 30 19:39:04 2016 From: applesrgoodforu at aol.com (Dan) Date: Sat, 30 Apr 2016 19:39:04 -0400 Subject: [nafex] Advice on disease resistant apples for Charlotte NC In-Reply-To: <20160430160424.67DD6CB8@m0087797.ppops.net> References: <20160430160424.67DD6CB8@m0087797.ppops.net> Message-ID: <154698a2ed7-5d00-7fd0@webprd-m71.mail.aol.com> I have Williams Pride(second week of Aug for picking), Liberty(mid), and Gold Rush(real late). Those are my favorites. Dan Ester Eugene, Oregon -----Original Message----- From: fuwa fuwa usagi To: mailing list at ibiblio - Northamerican Allied Fruit Experimenters Sent: Sat, Apr 30, 2016 4:04 pm Subject: [nafex] Advice on disease resistant apples for Charlotte NC I have a growing handful of friends in and around Charlotte NC. They have expressed some interest in dwarf apple trees and I am not sure what disease varieties would perform well there. I am thinking along the lines of early, mid-early, mid and late. So perhaps Williams Pride, Dayton, Liberty, Gold Rush? I just have no idea how any varieties will taste in that area. For example I suspect Liberty may not develop flavor without cool nights but I also here it does well in warmer climates. Advice much appreciated. the fluffy one _____________________________________________________________ The Free Email with so much more! =====> http://www.MuchoMail.com <===== __________________ nafex mailing list nafex at lists.ibiblio.org Northamerican Allied Fruit Experimenters subscribe/unsubscribe|user config|list info: http://lists.ibiblio.org/mailman/listinfo/nafex From lpittman at murraystate.edu Sat Apr 30 23:12:07 2016 From: lpittman at murraystate.edu (Louis Pittman) Date: Sat, 30 Apr 2016 22:12:07 -0500 Subject: [nafex] Advice on disease resistant apples for Charlotte NC In-Reply-To: <20160430160424.67DD6CB8@m0087797.ppops.net> References: <20160430160424.67DD6CB8@m0087797.ppops.net> Message-ID: Consider MonArk in the early-season category. Product of U.of Ark. breeding program. Good disease resistance. Ripe here in southern west-central KY in early to mid-July. Big red-over-green apple with crisp subacid white flesh. Good for fresh eating, excellent for cooking, drying. Unlike many early varieties, will keep for 6 wks or more under refrigeration. Requires repeated picking or stop-drop application... so, in my mind, great for a home orchard, as they're not all ripe at the same time. Charlotte, at Vintage Virginia Apples, had nothing but high praise for it there. Lucky On Sat, Apr 30, 2016 at 6:04 PM, fuwa fuwa usagi < fuwafuwausagi at muchomail.com> wrote: > I have a growing handful of friends in and around Charlotte NC. > > They have expressed some interest in dwarf apple trees and I am not sure > what disease varieties would perform well there. > > I am thinking along the lines of early, mid-early, mid and late. > > So perhaps Williams Pride, Dayton, Liberty, Gold Rush? I just have no > idea how any varieties will taste in that area. For example I suspect > Liberty may not develop flavor without cool nights but I also here it does > well in warmer climates. > > Advice much appreciated. > > the fluffy one > > > > > > > _____________________________________________________________ > The Free Email with so much more! > =====> http://www.MuchoMail.com <===== > __________________ > nafex mailing list > nafex at lists.ibiblio.org > Northamerican Allied Fruit Experimenters > subscribe/unsubscribe|user config|list info: > http://lists.ibiblio.org/mailman/listinfo/nafex > From fuwafuwausagi at muchomail.com Sat Apr 30 23:57:52 2016 From: fuwafuwausagi at muchomail.com (fuwa fuwa usagi) Date: Sat, 30 Apr 2016 20:57:52 -0700 Subject: [nafex] Advice on disease resistant apples for Charlotte NC Message-ID: <20160430205752.67DD6AE8@m0087797.ppops.net> Thanks Lucky, much appreciated. --- lpittman at murraystate.edu wrote: From: Louis Pittman To: fuwafuwausagi at muchomail.com, mailing list at ibiblio - Northamerican Allied Fruit Experimenters Subject: Re: [nafex] Advice on disease resistant apples for Charlotte NC Date: Sat, 30 Apr 2016 22:12:07 -0500 Consider MonArk in the early-season category. Product of U.of Ark. breeding program. Good disease resistance. Ripe here in southern west-central KY in early to mid-July. Big red-over-green apple with crisp subacid white flesh. Good for fresh eating, excellent for cooking, drying. Unlike many early varieties, will keep for 6 wks or more under refrigeration. Requires repeated picking or stop-drop application... so, in my mind, great for a home orchard, as they're not all ripe at the same time. Charlotte, at Vintage Virginia Apples, had nothing but high praise for it there. Lucky On Sat, Apr 30, 2016 at 6:04 PM, fuwa fuwa usagi < fuwafuwausagi at muchomail.com> wrote: > I have a growing handful of friends in and around Charlotte NC. > > They have expressed some interest in dwarf apple trees and I am not sure > what disease varieties would perform well there. > > I am thinking along the lines of early, mid-early, mid and late. > > So perhaps Williams Pride, Dayton, Liberty, Gold Rush? I just have no > idea how any varieties will taste in that area. For example I suspect > Liberty may not develop flavor without cool nights but I also here it does > well in warmer climates. > > Advice much appreciated. > > the fluffy one > > > > > > > _____________________________________________________________ > The Free Email with so much more! > =====> http://www.MuchoMail.com <===== > __________________ > nafex mailing list > nafex at lists.ibiblio.org > Northamerican Allied Fruit Experimenters > subscribe/unsubscribe|user config|list info: > http://lists.ibiblio.org/mailman/listinfo/nafex > _____________________________________________________________ The Free Email with so much more! =====> http://www.MuchoMail.com <=====