From dwoodard at becon.org Mon Sep 1 13:52:37 2014 From: dwoodard at becon.org (dwoodard at becon.org) Date: Mon, 01 Sep 2014 13:52:37 -0400 Subject: [nafex] [ARTICLE] Fruit exploring in Russia in 1883 Message-ID: <2e752630386e09988b24f78be27a7abf@becon.org> The travels of Charles Gibb, fruit grower of Abbotsford, Quebec in that year: Click on "view sample." also harder to read. Doug Woodard St. Catharines, Ontario, Canada From murphman108 at msn.com Tue Sep 2 16:44:36 2014 From: murphman108 at msn.com (Richard) Date: Tue, 2 Sep 2014 20:44:36 +0000 Subject: [nafex] Hubbardston - Ellison's Message-ID: Hello Troops: It's Murph again... I got Zestars like crazy this year. Jeeziz !! Have any of you grown Hubbardston Nonesuch or Ellison's Orange apples? I'm going to plant another 30 apple trees this spring, mostly Heirloom and some 'new' varieties. As you probably know, apple growth habits of a given variety can vary quite a bit with soil, water and climate. Reading catalog / orchard descriptions and opinions is almost a crap shoot. So, I'm interested in these two varieties. Does the Ellison really smell like anise seed? All the Hubbardstons I've seen are large and handsome; are they? Also, I'm looking for a good reliable annual cropper of red fruit. Any variety come to mind. I value your opinions more than any text book ever written, or catalog..... Please illuminate me. Murph From dwoodard at becon.org Tue Sep 2 17:59:26 2014 From: dwoodard at becon.org (dwoodard at becon.org) Date: Tue, 02 Sep 2014 17:59:26 -0400 Subject: [nafex] [ARTICLE] More frequent severe winter temps for us? In-Reply-To: <6b9e804af4306366c93e99e5f74cd2f9@becon.org> References: <7ed81cb7-dd58-43f0-9945-9233c8e35bf3@googlegroups.com> <30c4d21455335eb5872779c2e59bc4aa@becon.org> <6b9e804af4306366c93e99e5f74cd2f9@becon.org> Message-ID: Climate change and the polar vortex: Doug Woodard St. Catharines, Ontario, Canada From sam.brungardt at state.mn.us Mon Sep 8 10:36:17 2014 From: sam.brungardt at state.mn.us (Brungardt, Sam (MPCA)) Date: Mon, 8 Sep 2014 14:36:17 +0000 Subject: [nafex] A Coming-Out Party For The Humble Pawpaw, Native Fruit Darling (National Public Radio) Message-ID: <1268E36B214F7D4F968B0285BF5CF3E40530DBA7@055-CH1MPN1-032.055d.mgd.msft.net> A Coming-Out Party For The Humble Pawpaw, Native Fruit Darling NPR (blog) If you've never tasted a pawpaw, now is the moment. For just a few weeks every year, this native, mangolike fruit falls from trees, everywhere from ... [Google Plus] [Facebook] [Twitter] Flag as irrelevant And here's a link to the Ohio Pawpaw Festival webpage: http://www.ohiopawpawfest.com/ -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: image001.jpg Type: image/jpeg Size: 732 bytes Desc: image001.jpg URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: image002.png Type: image/png Size: 505 bytes Desc: image002.png URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: image003.jpg Type: image/jpeg Size: 732 bytes Desc: image003.jpg URL: From lostman_amiga at yahoo.com Mon Sep 8 12:31:49 2014 From: lostman_amiga at yahoo.com (rob hamilton) Date: Mon, 8 Sep 2014 09:31:49 -0700 Subject: [nafex] cover crops Message-ID: <1410193909.96071.YahooMailNeo@web162301.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> Does anyone use any perennial cover crops in there orchard for soil nutrients? Looking for one that is best for the southeast Robert -------------------------------------------- Now Zone 8a!! Atlanta, GA Atlanta Fruits Club http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Atlanta_Fruits/ North American Fruit Explorers (NAFEX) www.NAFEX.org Southern Fruit Fellowship (SFF) http://southernfruitfellowship.wordpress.com/ California Rare Fruit Growers www.crfg.org My New Blog!! http://atlantafruitman.wordpress.com/ From stuart at castlehillcider.com Wed Sep 10 12:20:20 2014 From: stuart at castlehillcider.com (Stuart Madany) Date: Wed, 10 Sep 2014 16:20:20 +0000 Subject: [nafex] cover crops In-Reply-To: <1410193909.96071.YahooMailNeo@web162301.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> References: <1410193909.96071.YahooMailNeo@web162301.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: Check out the soil food web website: http://www.soilfoodweb.com/Cover_Plants.html Actually for Mid-Atlantic, but some might work in your area. Stuart -----Original Message----- From: nafex [mailto:nafex-bounces at lists.ibiblio.org] On Behalf Of rob hamilton via nafex Sent: Monday, September 8, 2014 12:32 PM To: nafex mailing list at ibiblio Subject: [nafex] cover crops Does anyone use any perennial cover crops in there orchard for soil nutrients? Looking for one that is best for the southeast Robert -------------------------------------------- Now Zone 8a!! Atlanta, GA Atlanta Fruits Club http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Atlanta_Fruits/ North American Fruit Explorers (NAFEX) www.NAFEX.org Southern Fruit Fellowship (SFF) http://southernfruitfellowship.wordpress.com/ California Rare Fruit Growers www.crfg.org My New Blog!! http://atlantafruitman.wordpress.com/ __________________ nafex mailing list nafex at lists.ibiblio.org subscribe/unsubscribe|user config|list info|make a donation toward list maintenance: http://lists.ibiblio.org/mailman/listinfo/nafex message archives http://lists.ibiblio.org/pipermail/nafex Google message archive search: site: lists.ibiblio.org/pipermail/nafex [searchstring] nafex list mirror sites: http://groups.google.com/group/nafexlist https://sites.google.com/site/nafexmailinglist Avant Geared http://www.avantgeared.com From hello at protocol6.com Thu Sep 11 10:11:40 2014 From: hello at protocol6.com (Andre Pierre) Date: Thu, 11 Sep 2014 10:11:40 -0400 Subject: [nafex] tasty perennial Physalis In-Reply-To: References: <1408587468.27838.YahooMailNeo@web160602.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> <9F8F090E-D53E-4513-B379-BA36B953047B@gmail.com> Message-ID: <20140911141140.GA7882@arcanum.localdomain.local> Hi, I was at an PYO apple orchard here in Central Massachusetts two weekends ago and found *tons* of the Chinese Lanterns growing under the trees. I was told later that the orchard sells the Lanterns as an ornamental plant in flower arrangements. Just thought I'd mention this for those looking to plant perennial physalis. Some of these species clearly are a shade tolerant understory plant. Regards, :-) Andre On Fri, Aug 22, 2014 at 01:28:29PM -0400, Robert Bruns wrote: > The Chinese Lantern variety is sour and just plain nasty-tasting (I > just tried it to confirm that it's not edible, and believe me, it > isn't). Some of the named ground cherries are actually quite good, > although different people may have different opinions. The ground > cherries don't really become sweet until they've fallen from the plant > and then sat on the ground until the husk becomes transparent. > > Fred > > On 8/21/14, mIEKAL aND wrote: > > I'm getting a little lost in the discussion. Are the named annual varieties > > better tasting and sweeter than the wild chinese lantern type? > > > > ~mIEKAL > > > > > > On Aug 21, 2014, at 5:42 AM, Lori Rizzo wrote: > > > >> Hi Devin, > >> > >> I'm in Massachusetts and would be very interested in some rhizomes or > >> seeds. I just bought a place last month and am planning my edible forest. > >> > >> Let me know the how, cost, etc., - thanks! > >> > >> Lori > >> > >> > >> On Wed, Aug 20, 2014 at 10:17 PM, Devin Smith via nafex < > >> nafex at lists.ibiblio.org> wrote: > >> > >>> Glad to see there is some interest around tasty perennial > >>> groundcherries, > >>> For all of those who inquired, I'm in southern VT USDA zone 5b. I > >>> believe > >>> the lack of available perennial Physalis species in pretty indicative of > >>> the degree of neglect around these fruits. From what I have been able to > >>> surmise, there are several "species" of hardy perennial ground cherries. > >>> These are mostly considered problematic weeds, rather than useful > >>> cropping > >>> plants, though clearly a select few are as good as the best "cultivated" > >>> form. I've come across several different distinct types in my travels, > >>> none > >>> of which I am wholly convinced constitutes a "species" as such. It seems > >>> that the "annual" types, like Aunt Molly's or Pineapple, may in fact be > >>> perennial in the right climate (a warm one). As such, I tend to think of > >>> them as perennials grown as annuals, not unlike potatoes. Ripening times > >>> for these "annual" types tend toward the fall, suggesting that they come > >>> from a place > >>> with a relatively long season. The variety I found growing along the > >>> stone foundation is truly hardy in this climate, and can be clonally > >>> propagated by its rhizomes. It is beginning to ripen its fruit now, a > >>> full > >>> month or more before most annual types. I am particularly enamored of > >>> this > >>> selection because of its highly prostrate form-- only 4" tall, as well > >>> as > >>> its good flavor and early ripening. It seems to be a pretty unusual find. > >>> I > >>> wondered if any of you had looked at your local perennial Physalis > >>> (they're > >>> probably more numerous that you ever thought) to see if there are ones > >>> worth growing. > >>> > >>> > >>> I could probably send some rhizomes, or perhaps seeds, to those who are > >>> interested. > >>> __________________ > >>> nafex mailing list > >>> nafex at lists.ibiblio.org > >>> subscribe/unsubscribe|user config|list info|make a donation toward list > >>> maintenance: > >>> http://lists.ibiblio.org/mailman/listinfo/nafex > >>> message archives > >>> http://lists.ibiblio.org/pipermail/nafex > >>> Google message archive search: > >>> site: lists.ibiblio.org/pipermail/nafex [searchstring] > >>> nafex list mirror sites: > >>> http://groups.google.com/group/nafexlist > >>> https://sites.google.com/site/nafexmailinglist > >>> Avant Geared http://www.avantgeared.com > >>> > >> > >> > >> > >> -- > >> Lori Rizzo, BSN MBA RN > >> *Healthcare Quality & Performance Improvement* > >> *Behavioral Dog Training & Counseling* > >> *Heirloom & Unusual Vegetable Propagation* > >> *Dedham, MA* > >> *rizzolori1 at gmail.com * > >> __________________ > >> nafex mailing list > >> nafex at lists.ibiblio.org > >> subscribe/unsubscribe|user config|list info|make a donation toward list > >> maintenance: > >> http://lists.ibiblio.org/mailman/listinfo/nafex > >> message archives > >> http://lists.ibiblio.org/pipermail/nafex > >> Google message archive search: > >> site: lists.ibiblio.org/pipermail/nafex [searchstring] > >> nafex list mirror sites: > >> http://groups.google.com/group/nafexlist > >> https://sites.google.com/site/nafexmailinglist > >> Avant Geared http://www.avantgeared.com > > > > __________________ > > nafex mailing list > > nafex at lists.ibiblio.org > > subscribe/unsubscribe|user config|list info|make a donation toward list > > maintenance: > > http://lists.ibiblio.org/mailman/listinfo/nafex > > message archives > > http://lists.ibiblio.org/pipermail/nafex > > Google message archive search: > > site: lists.ibiblio.org/pipermail/nafex [searchstring] > > nafex list mirror sites: > > http://groups.google.com/group/nafexlist > > https://sites.google.com/site/nafexmailinglist > > Avant Geared http://www.avantgeared.com > > > __________________ > nafex mailing list > nafex at lists.ibiblio.org > subscribe/unsubscribe|user config|list info|make a donation toward list maintenance: > http://lists.ibiblio.org/mailman/listinfo/nafex > message archives > http://lists.ibiblio.org/pipermail/nafex > Google message archive search: > site: lists.ibiblio.org/pipermail/nafex [searchstring] > nafex list mirror sites: > http://groups.google.com/group/nafexlist > https://sites.google.com/site/nafexmailinglist > Avant Geared http://www.avantgeared.com > -- "The perfect is the enemy of the good." - Voltair From mark.lee.phd at gmail.com Fri Sep 19 12:25:41 2014 From: mark.lee.phd at gmail.com (Mark Lee) Date: Fri, 19 Sep 2014 09:25:41 -0700 Subject: [nafex] looking for some uncommon nashi varieties Message-ID: This morning I did a Facebook post about an asian pear that does well for me in Seattle. This nashi is called Mishirasu. https://www.facebook.com/SeattleTreeFruitSociety?ref=hl You can see a photo of one of these hanging on the tree at that link about. This pear has been used succesfully in breeding new varieties. I'm curious to learn more about these. Is anyone growing the offspring of Mishirasu? These are Kitahoshi, Hokuto, Hatsuhi, and Amatama? For those of you who don't visit Facebook, here is the text of the post: MISHIRASU NASHI- A HUGE ASIAN PEAR In Seattle, these pears grow the size of grapefruit. Dripping with sweet juice. Crunchy. A favorite with kids and squirrels! Looking somewhat like a European pear on steriods with pure white flesh, and skin with a golden background and a coarse russet. Recent genetic studies confirm that it is probably an Asian x European hybrid. Here are some facts about this pear, a.k.a. Mishirazu: Origin: May trace back to seed from China. Found in Hokkaido about 1887 where it was originally called Iida Nashi. Tested in Aomori testing center beginning in 1933. In 1956 this was the main cultivar grown in Hokkaido and occupied 63% of production. Named 'Mishirazu' by Dr. Hoshino. Fruit ripens in same period as Taihaku. Has been used in breeding and is a parent of Kitahoshi (Misharazu x Nijisseiki), Hokuto (Mijisseiki x Mishirazu), Hatsuhi (Chojuro x Mishirazu) and Amatama (Chojuro x Mishizaru). -- from I.Kajiura & Y.Sato. 1990. Recent progress in Japanese pear breeding and descriptions of cultivars based on literature review. Bulletin of the Fruit Tree Research Station (translated from Japanese by S. Wada, 12/2007). -- these facts come from the US National Pear Repository database, http://www.ars-grin.gov/cgi-bin/npgs/acc/search.pl?accid=%20PI+657919 . -Mark From sam.brungardt at state.mn.us Fri Sep 19 16:16:29 2014 From: sam.brungardt at state.mn.us (Brungardt, Sam (MPCA)) Date: Fri, 19 Sep 2014 20:16:29 +0000 Subject: [nafex] Aronia Berry Festival will be this weekend in Missouri Valley, Iowa Message-ID: <1268E36B214F7D4F968B0285BF5CF3E40532742A@055-CH1MPN1-033.055d.mgd.msft.net> From: Sawmill Hollow (andrew at sawmillhollow.com) You moved this message to its current location. Sent: Fri 9/19/14 7:52 AM Friend, It's not too late to settle your weekend plans! Join us for the 7th Annual North American Aronia Berry Festival at Sawmill Hollow Family Farm, this Saturday and Sunday, September 20-21, 10:00 AM - 6:00 PM. The field day turned festival at America's first Aronia berry farm features all things that highlight the native purple berry, including food and recipes, wine tastings, growers workshops (now with honey bees, composting, gardening, and more!), and of course, the "World Famous" Aronia Berry Stomp. In addition to the aronia berry, the event features dozens of local Loess Hills artisans; everyone from candles and soap makers, to potters and painters, photographers and jewelers, knitters and local artisan farms. We're excited to welcome the Raptor Recovery team to the farm to teach us more about animals native to our region. Live music will set the soundtrack to the Loess Hills. We think every year is pretty special, but we're excited to have a special guest join us for our 7th annual event. Senator Tom Harkin will experience his first aronia berry festival, kicking off the weekend with a visit from 10:00 - noon on Saturday. Our "Sunday in the Heartland" event will feature the Hy-Vee Healthy You Mobile, with dietitians sharing tips on making life easier, healthier, and happier. As always, entry to the festival is free. So get your GPS and google maps set for 2159 Kennedy Ave., Missouri Valley, IA 51555. For more information visit www.sawmillhollow.com I'm looking forward to seeing you, your family, and friends this weekend. Cheers, Andrew Pittz Sawmill Hollow Family Farm From sherwindu at att.net Sat Sep 20 01:29:45 2014 From: sherwindu at att.net (sherwin) Date: Sat, 20 Sep 2014 00:29:45 -0500 Subject: [nafex] Seeking a Resolution on Tree Damage Message-ID: <541D10C9.1050009@att.net> I am still trying to determine what attacked three of my mature apple trees. People on this forum are reporting that this year was a terrible one for fireblight. Others are reporting losses due to the severe Winter, although these are directed more to blossom loss. I sent samples of my damaged trees to the U of I Extension Service, and they came back with no obvious indicators. This could be because the sample were taken later in the Summer when the fireblight is possibly dormant. I plan to send more samples in the Spring, especially is I see more die back and possible spread of any infection. Strangely, two of these trees have been putting out water spout type growth with healthy looking leaves. Possibly, I can use them to restart the trees. I don't know if this sheds any more light on what damaged these trees. I am also seeing some browning of leaf tips on our other trees, but that could be something unrelated like uneven watering. In any case, I will add copper to my dormant oil spray this Spring to try and inhibit any spread of possible viruses. It's interesting that I am reading that this is the last season copper will be allowed to be sold as a fungicide in the USA. There is talk of other substitutes. Some people are suggesting sulfur, which also has been disallowed for orchard use. Makes me wonder who is pushing the buttons over at the government agencies. They banned Imidan, which I think is the only serious preventative for apple maggot and plum curculio. Sherwin Dubren Morton Grove, IL From mark.lee.phd at gmail.com Sat Sep 20 20:17:59 2014 From: mark.lee.phd at gmail.com (Mark Lee) Date: Sat, 20 Sep 2014 17:17:59 -0700 Subject: [nafex] Apple varieties with the aroma of vanilla Message-ID: I have been collecting apple varieties for over 20 years, and I don't recall ever tasting vanilla in an apple. I ran across a couple varieties this past week noted for vanilla. I did a search today and found some more. Add to the list if you have experience with others, especially seedlings that are not well known. Vanilla Pippin - Santa Cruz Mountains, CA A local heirloom discovered in an abandoned orchard as a rootstock leafing out really does have a pronounced vanilla flavor. It's the only one that I know of so far that has that type of flavor. It's very sweet and incredibly delicious. http://www.cloudforest.com/cafe/apples/fruit-hunt-for-apples-with-tropical-flavors-t803.html Yellow Bellflower - Forest City, CA aka Forest City ?Vanilla?. Although this apple is most probably the Yellow Bellflower, we have kept it?s original study name. It is large, round to tapered, yellow-green skin with pronounced ribs. The whitish, firm and moderately sweet flesh has the distinct aroma of vanilla, a unique characteristic. Great for fresh, sauces and pies, the vanilla aroma is alluring. http://felixgillet.org/?page_id=194 Weston's Winter Delight - New Berlin, WI A wild seedling with a yellow skin and strong vanilla flavor. Williams Early Red Very crisp, rich, vanilla flavor. Both of these are from Weston Antique Apples http://www.westonapples.com/apples4.htm Hall - North Carolina The yellow flesh is tender, juicy, fine-grained, aromatic with a terrific flavor with hints of vanilla. Ripens late fall and is a good keeper. http://www.kuffelcreek.com/applelist.htm Calville Blanc d?Hiver A 15th century French apple that has a vanilla-like flavor and a wonderful texture when cooked. http://scottfarmvermont.com/heirloom-apples/ I ran across other suggestions for this list: Mother, Freyburg (Banana-like with a touch of overripe raspberry), Sweet 16 (expensive bourbon with a shot of vanilla), and Novaspy (great complexity with slight vanilla-bourbon). I ran across other unique flavors that I will reasearch later. Clove: Cornish Gilliflower Lychee: Viking, a Summer apple from the Purdue University breeding program has an amazing lychee X rose flavor. On an off year, it will taste more or less like a William's pride apple, but on a good year, the lychee flavor is out of this world! Rose: Carter blue is the one to get for that pronounced rose water. Banana: My Jewel has a more pronounced banana flavor than Winter Banana, and is a better keeper. Fennel: The most well known fennel flavored apple is the Fenouillet gris, a French apple that is famous for it's pronounced anise flavor. From sam.brungardt at state.mn.us Mon Sep 22 10:12:34 2014 From: sam.brungardt at state.mn.us (Brungardt, Sam (MPCA)) Date: Mon, 22 Sep 2014 14:12:34 +0000 Subject: [nafex] Pluots, apriums, nectarplums: Collins family fruit improves by the generation (The Seattle Times) Message-ID: <1268E36B214F7D4F968B0285BF5CF3E4053277D0@055-CH1MPN1-033.055d.mgd.msft.net> Pluots, apriums, nectarplums: Collins family fruit improves by the generation ( http://seattletimes.com/html/pacificnw/2024450501_0921tastexml.html ) The Seattle Times By growing a wider variety of fruit, Calvin Collins of Collins Family Orchards has extended his growing season and sells fruit that no one else does. From qazingulaza at gmail.com Mon Sep 22 11:07:53 2014 From: qazingulaza at gmail.com (mIEKAL aND) Date: Mon, 22 Sep 2014 10:07:53 -0500 Subject: [nafex] NAFEX on Facebook Message-ID: Curious how many folks on this mailing list are not on Facebook and consequently not reading the NAFEX Facebook group? The facebook group at this point is far more active than this list plus it has the advantage that folks can easily post photos. There is also an endless stream of growing reports and questions being posted there. ~mIEKAL From iwgarden at earthlink.net Mon Sep 22 11:19:57 2014 From: iwgarden at earthlink.net (Idell Weydemeyer) Date: Mon, 22 Sep 2014 08:19:57 -0700 Subject: [nafex] NAFEX on Facebook In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <000901cfd678$ac078fb0$0416af10$@net> So many folks are on Facebook these days--it used to be mostly the younger people but now----- I am not on and will not be which means I may lose out on a lot---Hopefully many issues will continue to be posted on this list group. Idell in El Sobrante, CA -----Original Message----- From: nafex [mailto:nafex-bounces at lists.ibiblio.org] On Behalf Of mIEKAL aND Sent: Monday, September 22, 2014 8:08 AM To: North American Fruit Explorers Subject: [nafex] NAFEX on Facebook Curious how many folks on this mailing list are not on Facebook and consequently not reading the NAFEX Facebook group? The facebook group at this point is far more active than this list plus it has the advantage that folks can easily post photos. There is also an endless stream of growing reports and questions being posted there. ~mIEKAL __________________ nafex mailing list nafex at lists.ibiblio.org subscribe/unsubscribe|user config|list info|make a donation toward list maintenance: http://lists.ibiblio.org/mailman/listinfo/nafex message archives http://lists.ibiblio.org/pipermail/nafex Google message archive search: site: lists.ibiblio.org/pipermail/nafex [searchstring] nafex list mirror sites: http://groups.google.com/group/nafexlist https://sites.google.com/site/nafexmailinglist Avant Geared http://www.avantgeared.com From qazingulaza at gmail.com Mon Sep 22 11:32:31 2014 From: qazingulaza at gmail.com (mIEKAL aND) Date: Mon, 22 Sep 2014 10:32:31 -0500 Subject: [nafex] NAFEX on Facebook In-Reply-To: <000901cfd678$ac078fb0$0416af10$@net> References: <000901cfd678$ac078fb0$0416af10$@net> Message-ID: My reason for mentioning this is that there are things that can be done to integrate. In the very least, I or others that are on both can post things back to this list. Since the Facebook group is public, the links of people's posts are viewable on the web, even if you are not a member. For instance I just posted a hopped apple mead recipe I just made. You should be able to click on this link and see the pictures and the recipe. https://www.facebook.com/groups/21070015101/permalink/10152685568925102/ ~mIEKAL On Sep 22, 2014, at 10:19 AM, Idell Weydemeyer wrote: > So many folks are on Facebook these days--it used to be mostly the younger > people but now----- I am not on and will not be which means I may lose out > on a lot---Hopefully many issues will continue to be posted on this list > group. > > > Idell in El Sobrante, CA From lfljvenaura at gmail.com Mon Sep 22 11:33:22 2014 From: lfljvenaura at gmail.com (Lawrence London) Date: Mon, 22 Sep 2014 11:33:22 -0400 Subject: [nafex] NAFEX on Facebook In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On Mon, Sep 22, 2014 at 11:07 AM, mIEKAL aND wrote: > Curious how many folks on this mailing list are not on Facebook and > consequently not reading the NAFEX Facebook group? The facebook group > at this point is far more active than this list plus it has the > advantage that folks can easily post photos. There is also an endless > stream of growing reports and questions being posted there. > You can post post photos inline or attached to your nafex list posts. They appear in subscriber's feeds and in the message archives (as a file to view separately from the message). This list can have an interactive Google+ page, a Google group mirror and a Google Site for alternative ways of using the list and archived information of value. Instead of getting a FB account so you can post pictures or videos get a Google/Gmail one and post to a nafex-list-at-ibiblio Google+ page which has a far better interface than FB with easily accessable archives and galleries; possibilities for usage are endless. I know NAFEX hosts the FB Nafex page so using it is a good thing, but there are alternatives. They should create a G+ page for themselves and members for long term benefits. FB is way too limited and feature poor. . I permanently cancelled my FB account sometime back and will never return. -- Lawrence F. London lfljvenaura at gmail.com http://www.avantgeared.com https://plus.google.com/+Avantgeared Skype: lawrence.f.london From organic87 at frontiernet.net Mon Sep 22 11:39:24 2014 From: organic87 at frontiernet.net (Road's End Farm) Date: Mon, 22 Sep 2014 11:39:24 -0400 Subject: [nafex] NAFEX on Facebook In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <1E8CD577-DB1E-46F7-8C43-0F66E3D21348@frontiernet.net> Not on Facebook and not willing to go there. I have a highly inactive Google+ account but don't really want to spend time there either -- I keep debating cancelling that one. The problem with social media sites is that they're designed to try to get you to spend as much time as possible there. I waste too much time online as it is. -- Rivka; Finger Lakes NY, Zone 6A now I think Fresh-market organic produce, small scale From lfljvenaura at gmail.com Mon Sep 22 11:46:20 2014 From: lfljvenaura at gmail.com (Lawrence London) Date: Mon, 22 Sep 2014 11:46:20 -0400 Subject: [nafex] NAFEX on Facebook In-Reply-To: References: <000901cfd678$ac078fb0$0416af10$@net> Message-ID: On Mon, Sep 22, 2014 at 11:32 AM, mIEKAL aND wrote: > My reason for mentioning this is that there are things that can be done to > integrate. In the very least, I or others that are on both can post things > back to this list. Since the Facebook group is public, the links of > people's posts are viewable on the web, even if you are not a member. > > For instance I just posted a hopped apple mead recipe I just made. You > should be able to click on this link and see the pictures and the recipe. > > https://www.facebook.com/groups/21070015101/permalink/10152685568925102/ > > ~mIEKAL Thanks for pointing that out. I did not know that FB offered public viewing of pages configured for that level of access. I hope others with FB accounts will crosspost Nafex FB page posts, comments, videos and images freely to this forum. -- Lawrence F. London lfljvenaura at gmail.com http://www.avantgeared.com https://plus.google.com/+Avantgeared Skype: lawrence.f.london From bnichols at ecotechinc.com Mon Sep 22 12:15:39 2014 From: bnichols at ecotechinc.com (Barry Nichols) Date: Mon, 22 Sep 2014 16:15:39 +0000 Subject: [nafex] NAFEX on Facebook In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <6CA30FF17315EB42A0235E62A0679F6B0108E3D443@SERVER1.eco.local> Not all that curious. While it may be handy, many of us are not on facebook because of privacy issues. When the company stops playing fast and loose with personal data and manipulation of its users, it may be time to give it another look. That said, I find the facebook interface tedious. I'd much rather participate in a forum. YMMV...and that is why these other options exist. -----Original Message----- From: nafex [mailto:nafex-bounces at lists.ibiblio.org] On Behalf Of mIEKAL aND Sent: Monday, September 22, 2014 11:08 AM To: North American Fruit Explorers Subject: [nafex] NAFEX on Facebook Curious how many folks on this mailing list are not on Facebook and consequently not reading the NAFEX Facebook group? The facebook group at this point is far more active than this list plus it has the advantage that folks can easily post photos. There is also an endless stream of growing reports and questions being posted there. ~mIEKAL __________________ nafex mailing list nafex at lists.ibiblio.org subscribe/unsubscribe|user config|list info|make a donation toward list maintenance: http://lists.ibiblio.org/mailman/listinfo/nafex message archives http://lists.ibiblio.org/pipermail/nafex Google message archive search: site: lists.ibiblio.org/pipermail/nafex [searchstring] nafex list mirror sites: http://groups.google.com/group/nafexlist https://sites.google.com/site/nafexmailinglist Avant Geared http://www.avantgeared.com From qazingulaza at gmail.com Mon Sep 22 12:50:21 2014 From: qazingulaza at gmail.com (mIEKAL aND) Date: Mon, 22 Sep 2014 11:50:21 -0500 Subject: [nafex] NAFEX on Facebook In-Reply-To: <6CA30FF17315EB42A0235E62A0679F6B0108E3D443@SERVER1.eco.local> References: <6CA30FF17315EB42A0235E62A0679F6B0108E3D443@SERVER1.eco.local> Message-ID: My point was you don't have to be a member of facebook to see what other NAFEX folks are posting there. It's absolutely no different than posting on any other link posted to this list. I posted an example in my previous comment. On Mon, Sep 22, 2014 at 11:15 AM, Barry Nichols wrote: > Not all that curious. While it may be handy, many of us are not on facebook because of privacy issues. When the company stops playing fast and loose with personal data and manipulation of its users, it may be time to give it another look. That said, I find the facebook interface tedious. I'd much rather participate in a forum. YMMV...and that is why these other options exist. > > -----Original Message----- > From: nafex [mailto:nafex-bounces at lists.ibiblio.org] On Behalf Of mIEKAL aND > Sent: Monday, September 22, 2014 11:08 AM > To: North American Fruit Explorers > Subject: [nafex] NAFEX on Facebook > > Curious how many folks on this mailing list are not on Facebook and consequently not reading the NAFEX Facebook group? The facebook group at this point is far more active than this list plus it has the advantage that folks can easily post photos. There is also an endless stream of growing reports and questions being posted there. > > ~mIEKAL > __________________ > nafex mailing list > nafex at lists.ibiblio.org > subscribe/unsubscribe|user config|list info|make a donation toward list maintenance: > http://lists.ibiblio.org/mailman/listinfo/nafex > message archives > http://lists.ibiblio.org/pipermail/nafex > Google message archive search: > site: lists.ibiblio.org/pipermail/nafex [searchstring] nafex list mirror sites: > http://groups.google.com/group/nafexlist > https://sites.google.com/site/nafexmailinglist > Avant Geared http://www.avantgeared.com > __________________ > nafex mailing list > nafex at lists.ibiblio.org > subscribe/unsubscribe|user config|list info|make a donation toward list maintenance: > http://lists.ibiblio.org/mailman/listinfo/nafex > message archives > http://lists.ibiblio.org/pipermail/nafex > Google message archive search: > site: lists.ibiblio.org/pipermail/nafex [searchstring] > nafex list mirror sites: > http://groups.google.com/group/nafexlist > https://sites.google.com/site/nafexmailinglist > Avant Geared http://www.avantgeared.com From qazingulaza at gmail.com Mon Sep 22 12:51:03 2014 From: qazingulaza at gmail.com (mIEKAL aND) Date: Mon, 22 Sep 2014 11:51:03 -0500 Subject: [nafex] NAFEX on Facebook In-Reply-To: References: <6CA30FF17315EB42A0235E62A0679F6B0108E3D443@SERVER1.eco.local> Message-ID: sorry, I meant to say it's no different than CLICKING on any other link posted here.. On Mon, Sep 22, 2014 at 11:50 AM, mIEKAL aND wrote: > My point was you don't have to be a member of facebook to see what > other NAFEX folks are posting there. It's absolutely no different > than posting on any other link posted to this list. I posted an > example in my previous comment. > > On Mon, Sep 22, 2014 at 11:15 AM, Barry Nichols wrote: >> Not all that curious. While it may be handy, many of us are not on facebook because of privacy issues. When the company stops playing fast and loose with personal data and manipulation of its users, it may be time to give it another look. That said, I find the facebook interface tedious. I'd much rather participate in a forum. YMMV...and that is why these other options exist. >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: nafex [mailto:nafex-bounces at lists.ibiblio.org] On Behalf Of mIEKAL aND >> Sent: Monday, September 22, 2014 11:08 AM >> To: North American Fruit Explorers >> Subject: [nafex] NAFEX on Facebook >> >> Curious how many folks on this mailing list are not on Facebook and consequently not reading the NAFEX Facebook group? The facebook group at this point is far more active than this list plus it has the advantage that folks can easily post photos. There is also an endless stream of growing reports and questions being posted there. >> >> ~mIEKAL >> __________________ >> nafex mailing list >> nafex at lists.ibiblio.org >> subscribe/unsubscribe|user config|list info|make a donation toward list maintenance: >> http://lists.ibiblio.org/mailman/listinfo/nafex >> message archives >> http://lists.ibiblio.org/pipermail/nafex >> Google message archive search: >> site: lists.ibiblio.org/pipermail/nafex [searchstring] nafex list mirror sites: >> http://groups.google.com/group/nafexlist >> https://sites.google.com/site/nafexmailinglist >> Avant Geared http://www.avantgeared.com >> __________________ >> nafex mailing list >> nafex at lists.ibiblio.org >> subscribe/unsubscribe|user config|list info|make a donation toward list maintenance: >> http://lists.ibiblio.org/mailman/listinfo/nafex >> message archives >> http://lists.ibiblio.org/pipermail/nafex >> Google message archive search: >> site: lists.ibiblio.org/pipermail/nafex [searchstring] >> nafex list mirror sites: >> http://groups.google.com/group/nafexlist >> https://sites.google.com/site/nafexmailinglist >> Avant Geared http://www.avantgeared.com From bluestem_farm at juno.com Mon Sep 22 14:03:43 2014 From: bluestem_farm at juno.com (Scott Weber and Muffy Barrett) Date: Mon, 22 Sep 2014 18:03:43 GMT Subject: [nafex] NAFEX on Facebook Message-ID: <20140922.130343.25931.0@webmail07.dca.untd.com> Should be able to, but it didn't work for me just now. I'm on FB, but many moons ago when I tried going to the NAFEX page it was a private group and wouldn't let me look. Maybe won't go anyway, but has that changed? Muffy BarrettSouthern Wisc. ---------- Original Message ---------- You should be able to click on this link and see the pictures and the recipe. https://www.facebook.com/groups/21070015101/permalink/10152685568925102/ ~mIEKAL ____________________________________________________________ The #1 Worst Carb Ever? Click to Learn #1 Carb that Kills Your Blood Sugar (Don't Eat This!) http://thirdpartyoffers.juno.com/TGL3131/542064b52567664b51aa7st04duc From organic87 at frontiernet.net Mon Sep 22 14:09:42 2014 From: organic87 at frontiernet.net (Road's End Farm) Date: Mon, 22 Sep 2014 14:09:42 -0400 Subject: [nafex] NAFEX on Facebook In-Reply-To: <20140922.130343.25931.0@webmail07.dca.untd.com> References: <20140922.130343.25931.0@webmail07.dca.untd.com> Message-ID: It certainly isn't generally public. All I get from that link is a page saying "You must log in to continue." -- Rivka; Finger Lakes NY, Zone 6A now I think Fresh-market organic produce, small scale On Sep 22, 2014, at 2:03 PM, Scott Weber and Muffy Barrett wrote: > Should be able to, but it didn't work for me just now. I'm on FB, but many moons ago when I tried going to the NAFEX page it was a private group and wouldn't let me look. Maybe won't go anyway, but has that changed? > Muffy BarrettSouthern Wisc. > ---------- Original Message ---------- > You should be able to click on this link and see the pictures and the recipe. > > https://www.facebook.com/groups/21070015101/permalink/10152685568925102/ > > ~mIEKAL > > > From lfljvenaura at gmail.com Mon Sep 22 15:05:17 2014 From: lfljvenaura at gmail.com (Lawrence London) Date: Mon, 22 Sep 2014 15:05:17 -0400 Subject: [nafex] NAFEX on Facebook In-Reply-To: References: <000901cfd678$ac078fb0$0416af10$@net> Message-ID: On Mon, Sep 22, 2014 at 11:32 AM, mIEKAL aND wrote: > My reason for mentioning this is that there are things that can be done to > integrate. In the very least, I or others that are on both can post things > back to this list. Since the Facebook group is public, the links of > people's posts are viewable on the web, even if you are not a member. > > For instance I just posted a hopped apple mead recipe I just made. You > should be able to click on this link and see the pictures and the recipe. > > https://www.facebook.com/groups/21070015101/permalink/10152685568925102/ > Requires FB login. i.e. you have to have a FB account; after that it may filter out non Nafex members from accessing the URL. - Lawrence F. London lfljvenaura at gmail.com http://www.avantgeared.com https://plus.google.com/+Avantgeared Skype: lawrence.f.london From qazingulaza at gmail.com Mon Sep 22 16:32:34 2014 From: qazingulaza at gmail.com (mIEKAL aND) Date: Mon, 22 Sep 2014 15:32:34 -0500 Subject: [nafex] NAFEX on Facebook In-Reply-To: References: <000901cfd678$ac078fb0$0416af10$@net> Message-ID: Sorry, about that. I tried the link from an unlogged in computer and it worked, I must have had cookies still active that allowed it to think I was logged in. Never mind then. I should say though, there are a lot of folks posting very inrteresting material, links, photos and documentation. It's too bad there isn't an easy way for non-facebook users to access it. On Mon, Sep 22, 2014 at 2:05 PM, Lawrence London wrote: > On Mon, Sep 22, 2014 at 11:32 AM, mIEKAL aND wrote: > >> My reason for mentioning this is that there are things that can be done to >> integrate. In the very least, I or others that are on both can post things >> back to this list. Since the Facebook group is public, the links of >> people's posts are viewable on the web, even if you are not a member. >> >> For instance I just posted a hopped apple mead recipe I just made. You >> should be able to click on this link and see the pictures and the recipe. >> >> https://www.facebook.com/groups/21070015101/permalink/10152685568925102/ >> > > Requires FB login. i.e. you have to have a FB account; after that it may > filter out non Nafex members from accessing the URL. > > - > Lawrence F. London > lfljvenaura at gmail.com > http://www.avantgeared.com > https://plus.google.com/+Avantgeared > Skype: lawrence.f.london > __________________ > nafex mailing list > nafex at lists.ibiblio.org > subscribe/unsubscribe|user config|list info|make a donation toward list maintenance: > http://lists.ibiblio.org/mailman/listinfo/nafex > message archives > http://lists.ibiblio.org/pipermail/nafex > Google message archive search: > site: lists.ibiblio.org/pipermail/nafex [searchstring] > nafex list mirror sites: > http://groups.google.com/group/nafexlist > https://sites.google.com/site/nafexmailinglist > Avant Geared http://www.avantgeared.com From sherwindu at att.net Mon Sep 22 18:17:10 2014 From: sherwindu at att.net (sherwin) Date: Mon, 22 Sep 2014 17:17:10 -0500 Subject: [nafex] NAFEX on Facebook In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <54209FE6.8070100@att.net> Larry, I concur with your opinions of FB. I only keep it for contact with my family, who insist upon using it. Looking at the Nafex postings on FB, I found them to be very difficult to distinguish what the topics were being mixed up with all that chat. I don't consider FB a serious gardening media. It's good for chatting, and that's about all. I like the simplicity and readability of Ibiblio. Notification is a big plus on Ibiblio, as I can prescreen messages and decide which ones to view or erase. Sherwin Dubren On 9/22/2014 10:33 AM, Lawrence London wrote: > On Mon, Sep 22, 2014 at 11:07 AM, mIEKAL aND wrote: > >> Curious how many folks on this mailing list are not on Facebook and >> consequently not reading the NAFEX Facebook group? The facebook group >> at this point is far more active than this list plus it has the >> advantage that folks can easily post photos. There is also an endless >> stream of growing reports and questions being posted there. >> > You can post post photos inline or attached to your nafex list posts. They > appear > in subscriber's feeds and in the message archives (as a file to view > separately from the message). > This list can have an interactive Google+ page, a Google group mirror and a > Google Site for alternative ways > of using the list and archived information of value. > > Instead of getting a FB account so you can post pictures or videos get a > Google/Gmail one and post to a nafex-list-at-ibiblio > Google+ page which has a far better interface than FB with easily > accessable archives and galleries; possibilities for usage are endless. > > I know NAFEX hosts the FB Nafex page so using it is a good thing, but there > are alternatives. They should create a G+ page for themselves and members > for long term benefits. FB is way too limited and feature poor. > . > I permanently cancelled my FB account sometime back and will never return. > > > From lfljvenaura at gmail.com Mon Sep 22 19:39:59 2014 From: lfljvenaura at gmail.com (Lawrence London) Date: Mon, 22 Sep 2014 19:39:59 -0400 Subject: [nafex] NAFEX on Facebook In-Reply-To: <54209FE6.8070100@att.net> References: <54209FE6.8070100@att.net> Message-ID: On Mon, Sep 22, 2014 at 6:17 PM, sherwin wrote: > Larry, > > I concur with your opinions of FB. I only keep it for contact > with my family, who insist upon using it. > > Looking at the Nafex postings on FB, I found them to be very > difficult to distinguish what the topics were being mixed up > with all that chat. I don't consider FB a serious gardening > media. It's good for chatting, and that's about all. I like the > simplicity and readability of Ibiblio. Notification is a big plus > on Ibiblio, as I can prescreen messages and decide which ones > to view or erase. > > Sherwin Dubren That's it in a plum pit. I am so grateful for the ibiblio lists. When I started around 1990 my first lists were hosted free by the Cooperative Extension email server at NCSU, Raleigh. These were forums that used email for traffic, permaculture and a sustainable agriculture one; sanet-mg was at the same location. Later I moved the forums to UNC Academic Computing then on to ibiblio; all used email for delivery though the software was different at each host. I like the UNIX or LINUX file system and command line, ftp and text-based html for websites. My friend PJM and I, each BBS sysops, decided that as far as web development was concerned, we were all about content, not cosmetics, i.e. a website should be fully accessable by someone using the VT100 Lynx web browser at the Unix command line, so no html tables, etc etc. Of course now with Linux and its GUI everything is possible. It is amazing how far programming, apps development, online security, Linux and even Windows apps, especially the free and open source ones have come. I chose not to worry about spying and security anywhere on Google, so I max out my use of those free, excellent resources. I ran across the most perfect Google resource for an organization, one that NAFEX ought to use. I posted about this to my PC list and will crosspost that to this thread as soon as I locate it tonight. I put together a fair amount of info and links to documentation about it. It starts at Google+ with a system intended for organizations, non profit or corporate. Its easy to set up and maintain; can submit posts for public or private viewing, can have a management team and original ownership (the person who created the page) of the site can be changed to one or more other people. Setting this up is not time consuming, nor is maintenance so NAFEX ought to take a serious look at using this free resource. The midfex list community too. I'll post more into later tonight. LL -- Lawrence F. London lfljvenaura at gmail.com http://www.avantgeared.com https://plus.google.com/+Avantgeared Skype: lawrence.f.london From Jwlehman at aol.com Mon Sep 22 21:02:08 2014 From: Jwlehman at aol.com (Jwlehman at aol.com) Date: Mon, 22 Sep 2014 21:02:08 -0400 Subject: [nafex] NAFEX on Facebook Message-ID: Every day I get several messages where someone has posted a picture, I could spend all day looking at pictures. The Indiana Nut & Fruit Growers has a FB page. When someone posts a question one must sign on to answer, then fight their commercials. Much simpler and faster to reply to questions on this net, ibiblio. FB is OK for people with lots of time on their hands and don't mind commercials, but not my cup of tea. Jerry Lehman In a message dated 9/22/2014 11:46:55 A.M. Eastern Daylight Time, lfljvenaura at gmail.com writes: On Mon, Sep 22, 2014 at 11:32 AM, mIEKAL aND wrote: > My reason for mentioning this is that there are things that can be done to > integrate. In the very least, I or others that are on both can post things > back to this list. Since the Facebook group is public, the links of > people's posts are viewable on the web, even if you are not a member. > > For instance I just posted a hopped apple mead recipe I just made. You > should be able to click on this link and see the pictures and the recipe. > > https://www.facebook.com/groups/21070015101/permalink/10152685568925102/ > > ~mIEKAL Thanks for pointing that out. I did not know that FB offered public viewing of pages configured for that level of access. I hope others with FB accounts will crosspost Nafex FB page posts, comments, videos and images freely to this forum. -- Lawrence F. London lfljvenaura at gmail.com http://www.avantgeared.com https://plus.google.com/+Avantgeared Skype: lawrence.f.london __________________ nafex mailing list nafex at lists.ibiblio.org subscribe/unsubscribe|user config|list info|make a donation toward list maintenance: http://lists.ibiblio.org/mailman/listinfo/nafex message archives http://lists.ibiblio.org/pipermail/nafex Google message archive search: site: lists.ibiblio.org/pipermail/nafex [searchstring] nafex list mirror sites: http://groups.google.com/group/nafexlist https://sites.google.com/site/nafexmailinglist Avant Geared http://www.avantgeared.com From lfljvenaura at gmail.com Mon Sep 22 21:15:38 2014 From: lfljvenaura at gmail.com (Lawrence London) Date: Mon, 22 Sep 2014 21:15:38 -0400 Subject: [nafex] NAFEX on Facebook In-Reply-To: References: <54209FE6.8070100@att.net> Message-ID: On Mon, Sep 22, 2014 at 7:39 PM, Lawrence London wrote: I ran across the most perfect Google resource for an organization, one that > NAFEX ought to use. I posted about this to my PC list and will crosspost > that to this thread as soon as I locate it tonight. I put together a fair > amount of info and links to documentation about it. It starts at Google+ > with a system intended for organizations, non profit or corporate. Its easy > to set up and maintain; can submit posts for public or private viewing, can > have a management team and original ownership (the person who created the > page) of the site can be changed to one or more other people. Setting this > up is not time consuming, nor is maintenance so NAFEX ought to take a > serious look at using this free resource. The midfex list community too. > I'll post more into later tonight. > This is it: >From my post to the PC list: I found a great page that describes "managing a Google+ page as a team": http://readwrite.com/2011/12/21/how_to_manage_a_google_page_as_a_team. More: "This week, Google+ enabled up to 50 people at a time to manage Google+ brand pages. Since brand pages are how organizations manage their presence on Google+, many page owners need to give multiple team members the ability to edit and moderate. Yesterday's update not only allows a large team to control the page, it allows transfer of ownership. So if one person created your page but someone else needs to be in charge of it, the creator can transfer that power. The Google+ interface is a little busy, so here's a step-by-step guide for how to change managers of a Google+ page. Managers have all the same powers as owners except for two key things: they can't delete the page, and they can't transfer ownership. Otherwise, both owners and managers can add and remove new managers, view the roster of managers (including their email addresses), adjust the page's settings (like notifications), and, most importantly, do page actions like post content and edit circles." So, this provides one with the ability to delete or edit pages or content within pages, i.e. posts and comments, as the need arises. Also, in combination with Google Drive (Google Docs) and Google Sites (website) allows us to create archives of discussion threads and documents in various formats. Google Drive provides space for spreadsheets and documents created in many other formats. Archives of photos, videos, YouTube video channel, multimedia, sketches, blueprints, audio (stored in Sites or Drive or embedded in a Video with a single static image or slideshow) can be created and stored for free using Google resources. Having a YouTube channel for the list would be an effective to post videos for the organization's community. Google+ allows creation of media galleries within each page, easily accessed by the public and easily managed. So as an extension to a mailing list or website one can have the following: Google+ page, Google Site, YouTube Channel, Google Drive (Google Docs). -- Lawrence F. London lfljvenaura at gmail.com http://www.avantgeared.com https://plus.google.com/+Avantgeared Skype: lawrence.f.london From ehilborn at mebtel.net Mon Sep 22 21:17:43 2014 From: ehilborn at mebtel.net (Elizabeth Hilborn) Date: Mon, 22 Sep 2014 21:17:43 -0400 Subject: [nafex] NAFEX on Facebook In-Reply-To: <1E8CD577-DB1E-46F7-8C43-0F66E3D21348@frontiernet.net> References: <1E8CD577-DB1E-46F7-8C43-0F66E3D21348@frontiernet.net> Message-ID: <5420CA37.1030507@mebtel.net> " The problem with social media sites is that they're designed to try to get you to spend as much time as possible there. I waste too much time online as it is. " My sentiments exactly. I have not visited Facebook for 9 months and do not miss it. Betsy On 9/22/2014 11:39 AM, Road's End Farm wrote: > Not on Facebook and not willing to go there. > > I have a highly inactive Google+ account but don't really want to spend time there either -- I keep debating cancelling that one. > > The problem with social media sites is that they're designed to try to get you to spend as much time as possible there. I waste too much time online as it is. > > > > -- Rivka; Finger Lakes NY, Zone 6A now I think > Fresh-market organic produce, small scale > > > From organic87 at frontiernet.net Mon Sep 22 21:25:56 2014 From: organic87 at frontiernet.net (Road's End Farm) Date: Mon, 22 Sep 2014 21:25:56 -0400 Subject: [nafex] NAFEX on Facebook In-Reply-To: References: <54209FE6.8070100@att.net> Message-ID: Not sure I'm following all of this. Are you saying the following: -- that in order to be able to post to such a page each poster would have to be a manager -- that no more than 50 people therefore could be allowed to post -- that anyone who could post could also edit and/or delete everyone else''s posts, not only their own? If so, I can see very large disadvantages to that over an email list, or for that matter over a decently-run message board (though the email list has the advantage over a message board that it's not necessary to sign in, nor to deal with ads.) -- Rivka; Finger Lakes NY, Zone 6A now I think Fresh-market organic produce, small scale On Sep 22, 2014, at 9:15 PM, Lawrence London wrote: > On Mon, Sep 22, 2014 at 7:39 PM, Lawrence London > wrote: > > I ran across the most perfect Google resource for an organization, one that >> NAFEX ought to use. I posted about this to my PC list and will crosspost >> that to this thread as soon as I locate it tonight. I put together a fair >> amount of info and links to documentation about it. It starts at Google+ >> with a system intended for organizations, non profit or corporate. Its easy >> to set up and maintain; can submit posts for public or private viewing, can >> have a management team and original ownership (the person who created the >> page) of the site can be changed to one or more other people. Setting this >> up is not time consuming, nor is maintenance so NAFEX ought to take a >> serious look at using this free resource. The midfex list community too. >> I'll post more into later tonight. >> > This is it: > > From my post to the PC list: > > I found a great page that describes "managing a Google+ page as a team": > http://readwrite.com/2011/12/21/how_to_manage_a_google_page_as_a_team. > More: "This week, Google+ enabled up to 50 people > > at a time to manage Google+ brand pages. Since brand pages are how > organizations manage their presence on Google+, many page owners need to > give multiple team members the ability to edit and moderate. Yesterday's > update > > not only allows a large team to control the page, it allows transfer of > ownership. So if one person created your page but someone else needs to be > in charge of it, the creator can transfer that power. The Google+ interface > is a little busy, so here's a step-by-step guide for how to change managers > of a Google+ page. Managers have all the same powers > > as owners except for two key things: they can't delete the page, and they > can't transfer ownership. Otherwise, both owners and managers can add and > remove new managers, view the roster of managers (including their email > addresses), adjust the page's settings (like notifications), and, most > importantly, do page actions like post content and edit circles." > > So, this provides one with the ability to delete or edit pages or content > within pages, i.e. posts and comments, as the need arises. > > Also, in combination with Google Drive (Google Docs) and Google Sites > (website) allows us to create archives of discussion threads and documents > in various formats. Google Drive provides space for spreadsheets and > documents created in many other formats. Archives of photos, videos, > YouTube video channel, multimedia, sketches, blueprints, audio (stored in > Sites or Drive or embedded in a Video with a single static image or > slideshow) can be created and stored for free using Google resources. > Having a YouTube channel for the list would be an effective to post videos > for the organization's community. Google+ allows creation of media > galleries within each page, easily accessed by the public and easily > managed. > So as an extension to a mailing list or website one can have the following: > Google+ page, Google Site, YouTube Channel, Google Drive (Google Docs). > From davidndeannie at nctc.com Mon Sep 22 21:24:12 2014 From: davidndeannie at nctc.com (Deannie Hughes) Date: Mon, 22 Sep 2014 20:24:12 -0500 Subject: [nafex] NAFEX on Facebook In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <948CD2C06176413D9B5CC947E420DAC7@farmerdavePC> Ladies and Gentlemen, This conversation is one of the symtoms of a dying NAFEX. The refusal to change with the time and modes of communication means that no new people are coming into the fold. Young people have already moved beyond Facebook to newer platforms. Facebook is there for light conversation. Pictures of your latest whatever, keeping in touch. Ibiblio can be a format for more in depth discussion. Facebook can be an outreach tool to attract new people into the organization. Use it to make NAFEX look cool and fun and maybe it can grow a new crop of fruit lovers ----- Original Message ----- From: "Jwlehman--- via nafex" To: Sent: Monday, September 22, 2014 8:02 PM Subject: Re: [nafex] NAFEX on Facebook > Every day I get several messages where someone has posted a picture, I > could spend all day looking at pictures. The Indiana Nut & Fruit Growers > has a > FB page. When someone posts a question one must sign on to answer, then > fight their commercials. Much simpler and faster to reply to questions on > this net, ibiblio. > FB is OK for people with lots of time on their hands and don't mind > commercials, but not my cup of tea. > > Jerry Lehman > > > > In a message dated 9/22/2014 11:46:55 A.M. Eastern Daylight Time, > lfljvenaura at gmail.com writes: > > On Mon, Sep 22, 2014 at 11:32 AM, mIEKAL aND > wrote: > >> My reason for mentioning this is that there are things that can be done > to >> integrate. In the very least, I or others that are on both can post > things >> back to this list. Since the Facebook group is public, the links of >> people's posts are viewable on the web, even if you are not a member. >> >> For instance I just posted a hopped apple mead recipe I just made. You >> should be able to click on this link and see the pictures and the > recipe. >> >> https://www.facebook.com/groups/21070015101/permalink/10152685568925102/ >> >> ~mIEKAL > > > Thanks for pointing that out. I did not know that FB offered public > viewing > of pages configured for that level of access. > > I hope others with FB accounts will crosspost Nafex FB page posts, > comments, videos and images freely to this forum. > > > > -- > Lawrence F. London > lfljvenaura at gmail.com > http://www.avantgeared.com > https://plus.google.com/+Avantgeared > Skype: lawrence.f.london > __________________ > nafex mailing list > nafex at lists.ibiblio.org > subscribe/unsubscribe|user config|list info|make a donation toward list > maintenance: > http://lists.ibiblio.org/mailman/listinfo/nafex > message archives > http://lists.ibiblio.org/pipermail/nafex > Google message archive search: > site: lists.ibiblio.org/pipermail/nafex [searchstring] > nafex list mirror sites: > http://groups.google.com/group/nafexlist > https://sites.google.com/site/nafexmailinglist > Avant Geared http://www.avantgeared.com > > __________________ > nafex mailing list > nafex at lists.ibiblio.org > subscribe/unsubscribe|user config|list info|make a donation toward list > maintenance: > http://lists.ibiblio.org/mailman/listinfo/nafex > message archives > http://lists.ibiblio.org/pipermail/nafex > Google message archive search: > site: lists.ibiblio.org/pipermail/nafex [searchstring] > nafex list mirror sites: > http://groups.google.com/group/nafexlist > https://sites.google.com/site/nafexmailinglist > Avant Geared http://www.avantgeared.com --- This email is free from viruses and malware because avast! Antivirus protection is active. http://www.avast.com From list at ginda.us Mon Sep 22 22:07:18 2014 From: list at ginda.us (Ginda Fisher) Date: Mon, 22 Sep 2014 22:07:18 -0400 Subject: [nafex] NAFEX on Facebook In-Reply-To: <000901cfd678$ac078fb0$0416af10$@net> References: <000901cfd678$ac078fb0$0416af10$@net> Message-ID: Yes, I think it's a shame. I guess a lot of people prefer that format. Or maybe new NAFEX members don't know about this list. But a lot of the content has moved there, and I don't think there's much we can do about it. I vastly prefer this format. Easy to sort, easy to store, easy to find stuff, and without the baggage of Facebook. But I may be becoming a dinosaur. Ginda On Sep 22, 2014, at 11:19 AM, Idell Weydemeyer wrote: > So many folks are on Facebook these days--it used to be mostly the younger > people but now----- I am not on and will not be which means I may lose out > on a lot---Hopefully many issues will continue to be posted on this list > group. > > > Idell in El Sobrante, CA > > -----Original Message----- > From: nafex [mailto:nafex-bounces at lists.ibiblio.org] On Behalf Of mIEKAL aND > Sent: Monday, September 22, 2014 8:08 AM > To: North American Fruit Explorers > Subject: [nafex] NAFEX on Facebook > > Curious how many folks on this mailing list are not on Facebook and > consequently not reading the NAFEX Facebook group? The facebook group at > this point is far more active than this list plus it has the advantage that > folks can easily post photos. There is also an endless stream of growing > reports and questions being posted there. > > ~mIEKAL > __________________ > nafex mailing list > nafex at lists.ibiblio.org > subscribe/unsubscribe|user config|list info|make a donation toward list > maintenance: > http://lists.ibiblio.org/mailman/listinfo/nafex > message archives > http://lists.ibiblio.org/pipermail/nafex > Google message archive search: > site: lists.ibiblio.org/pipermail/nafex [searchstring] nafex list mirror > sites: > http://groups.google.com/group/nafexlist > https://sites.google.com/site/nafexmailinglist > Avant Geared http://www.avantgeared.com > > __________________ > nafex mailing list > nafex at lists.ibiblio.org > subscribe/unsubscribe|user config|list info|make a donation toward list maintenance: > http://lists.ibiblio.org/mailman/listinfo/nafex > message archives > http://lists.ibiblio.org/pipermail/nafex > Google message archive search: > site: lists.ibiblio.org/pipermail/nafex [searchstring] > nafex list mirror sites: > http://groups.google.com/group/nafexlist > https://sites.google.com/site/nafexmailinglist > Avant Geared http://www.avantgeared.com From list at ginda.us Mon Sep 22 22:14:14 2014 From: list at ginda.us (Ginda Fisher) Date: Mon, 22 Sep 2014 22:14:14 -0400 Subject: [nafex] NAFEX on Facebook In-Reply-To: References: <54209FE6.8070100@att.net> Message-ID: <99613F4A-F937-4D85-A88C-B42044236A98@ginda.us> > ... > I ran across the most perfect Google resource for an organization, one that > NAFEX ought to use... While some people distrust Google less than they distrust Facebook, I don't see any advantage to NAFEX moving there. Facebook has a broader user base, and both have similar interfaces and provide similar functionality. Both give you a glop of unorganized posts, roughly chonological, with easy ways to include photos. Neither has the "push" feature of email, nor can either be locally stored on your own computer to review later. The number of people who would strongly prefer G+ to Facebook is rather small. (It includes some of my friends, so I know it exists, but I don't think it's worth NAFEX pursuing.) Ginda From qazingulaza at gmail.com Mon Sep 22 22:50:33 2014 From: qazingulaza at gmail.com (mIEKAL aND) Date: Mon, 22 Sep 2014 21:50:33 -0500 Subject: [nafex] NAFEX on Facebook In-Reply-To: <99613F4A-F937-4D85-A88C-B42044236A98@ginda.us> References: <54209FE6.8070100@att.net> <99613F4A-F937-4D85-A88C-B42044236A98@ginda.us> Message-ID: Seriously, there is a huge amount of under 35 energy on the various Facebook permaculture, plant & orchard groups that I'm a part of. It's sad that very few of them can be convinced to join a listserv and sad that folks that have chimed into this thread are locked into one possible version of information transmission. Facebook is just a tool. You can run adblock plus and never ever see an ad or advertising of any kind. you can streamline your permissions and your behavior so your personal information is not harvested. You can be involved in very very in depth conversations with other growers who are interested in knowledge sharing. You get out of it what you put into it. If you expect it to be a waste of time, it will. If you decide to use it like a tool, like a pick axe or a refractometer, it can be that. I run a nursery of edible plants and generate a large percentage of online sales via facebook, and locally here in the very rural area I live in, I would never bother doing an event without using it, because here is really no other way locally for folks to hear about events. That said, I'll try to get a thread going on the facebook page to see if any of the folks there not subbed to this list would be interested in joining. On Mon, Sep 22, 2014 at 9:14 PM, Ginda Fisher wrote: >> ... >> I ran across the most perfect Google resource for an organization, one that >> NAFEX ought to use... > > While some people distrust Google less than they distrust Facebook, I don't see any advantage to NAFEX moving there. Facebook has a broader user base, and both have similar interfaces and provide similar functionality. Both give you a glop of unorganized posts, roughly chonological, with easy ways to include photos. Neither has the "push" feature of email, nor can either be locally stored on your own computer to review later. The number of people who would strongly prefer G+ to Facebook is rather small. (It includes some of my friends, so I know it exists, but I don't think it's worth NAFEX pursuing.) > > Ginda > __________________ > nafex mailing list > nafex at lists.ibiblio.org > subscribe/unsubscribe|user config|list info|make a donation toward list maintenance: > http://lists.ibiblio.org/mailman/listinfo/nafex > message archives > http://lists.ibiblio.org/pipermail/nafex > Google message archive search: > site: lists.ibiblio.org/pipermail/nafex [searchstring] > nafex list mirror sites: > http://groups.google.com/group/nafexlist > https://sites.google.com/site/nafexmailinglist > Avant Geared http://www.avantgeared.com From list at ginda.us Mon Sep 22 23:01:11 2014 From: list at ginda.us (Ginda Fisher) Date: Mon, 22 Sep 2014 23:01:11 -0400 Subject: [nafex] NAFEX on Facebook In-Reply-To: References: <54209FE6.8070100@att.net> <99613F4A-F937-4D85-A88C-B42044236A98@ginda.us> Message-ID: On Sep 22, 2014, at 10:50 PM, mIEKAL aND wrote: > ... > sad that folks that have chimed into this thread are locked into one > possible version of information transmission. Facebook... I use Facebook, G+, and some on-line chat sites. I exchange texts with my son, and interact in Google Hangouts with friends, and do quite a lot of collaborative work via Google docs. And there are some people I do business with whom I can only reach via Facebook chat -- they never get around to answering email. I also advertise local events via Facebook. And publish snippets on Vine. So I don't feel I am locked into one possible version of information transfer. But social media don't provide the sort of experience I enjoy for this sort of information. I find it particularly annoying that it's nearly impossible to search for a conversation I remember having a couple of years ago, for instance. > > That said, I'll try to get a thread going on the facebook page to see > if any of the folks there not subbed to this list would be interested > in joining. So, thanks for advertising this mailing list to the Facebook crowd. :-) Ginda From lfljvenaura at gmail.com Mon Sep 22 23:24:01 2014 From: lfljvenaura at gmail.com (Lawrence London) Date: Mon, 22 Sep 2014 23:24:01 -0400 Subject: [nafex] NAFEX on Facebook In-Reply-To: References: <54209FE6.8070100@att.net> Message-ID: On Mon, Sep 22, 2014 at 9:25 PM, Road's End Farm wrote: > Not sure I'm following all of this. > > Are you saying the following: > -- that in order to be able to post to such a page each poster > would have to be a manager > -- that no more than 50 people therefore could be allowed to post > -- that anyone who could post could also edit and/or delete > everyone else''s posts, not only their own? > > If so, I can see very large disadvantages to that over an email list, or > for that matter over a decently-run message board (though the email list > has the advantage over a message board that it's not necessary to sign in, > nor to deal with ads.) > > This is how it works, a surface look at the features, tools and possibilities, which are many. NAFEX G+ page A NAFEX Google+ page would have a community of owner(s) and manager(s), each with different levels of access. They create an array of circles. Circles are forums, analogous to mailing lists but work as webforums and use email in completely different ways such as notification of new posts submitted to circles that have been added to. The NAFEX managers or owners can then add each and every NAFEX member, with Gmail and appropriately named and used G+ page, to their NAFEX Members General Discussion Circle, i.e. populating the Circle with them just as you would subscribe users to a mailing list. This is accomplished by the NAFEX manager "Following" the member's G+ NAFEX Member page that he created for himself. The NAFEX member then can post to his own G+ NAFEX page and it will automatically become visible in the NAFEX Members General Discussion Circle. Owners and managers can always create new posts to any circle. They can also create new Circles on various topics. One of the Circles they can create is, for example, NAFEX Members General Discussion. NAFEX members interested in using this G+ page and all its resources would get a Gmail account, then get a Google+ page named something like John Plumpit NAFEX member. He would then create Circles on topics for posts he would want to appear in the NAFEX G+ page. NAFEX would have one Circle for general discussion, populated by all the NAFEX members with G+ pages, i.e "following" the G+ posts of those members. Each NAFEX members would have to populate his nafex general discussion circle and any other appropriate circles he creates with the NAFEX page, i.e. add Nafex as a member of his circle(s). If he creates a Grapes circle and adds nafex to it then all the posts he makes there will appear in the general discussion circle at the NAFEX page. NAFEX can then create an array of topical Circles and add NAFEX members to it, thus populating it with readers or "subscribers" who receive new posts in their feed. I _think_ this can be done one-way, i.e. NAFEX alone can submit posts to any of their Circles, while members they have added to the page can read those posts in their feed, or directly in that circle at the NAFEX page, and comment on them but not create new posts to that particular circle. The members can also create topical Circles in their G+ page and make them read-only, adding NAFEX and other members to their populations. Posts to those circles will exist in their own G+ page and also appear in the NAFEX general discussion circle. Needless to say NAFEX should be added only to circles of interest to Nafex members, reading them in the NAFEX G+ general discussion page or in their own G+ feed. For example a member could create a Plum circle and populate it with NAFEX and a dozen other members. I need to learn a lot more about how this works, especially how to keep circles on topic, who can post and who can read and receive in their feed in an organized way, but this is a quick overview. If you have more questions let me know and I will try to answer them. In the meantime I will research Circle management and associated permissions. Hope there are not too many typos in this post. LL On Sep 22, 2014, at 9:15 PM, Lawrence London wrote: > > > On Mon, Sep 22, 2014 at 7:39 PM, Lawrence London > > wrote: > > > > I ran across the most perfect Google resource for an organization, one > that > >> NAFEX ought to use. I posted about this to my PC list and will crosspost > >> that to this thread as soon as I locate it tonight. I put together a > fair > >> amount of info and links to documentation about it. It starts at Google+ > >> with a system intended for organizations, non profit or corporate. Its > easy > >> to set up and maintain; can submit posts for public or private viewing, > can > >> have a management team and original ownership (the person who created > the > >> page) of the site can be changed to one or more other people. Setting > this > >> up is not time consuming, nor is maintenance so NAFEX ought to take a > >> serious look at using this free resource. The midfex list community too. > >> I'll post more into later tonight. > >> > > This is it: > > > > From my post to the PC list: > > > > I found a great page that describes "managing a Google+ page as a team": > > http://readwrite.com/2011/12/21/how_to_manage_a_google_page_as_a_team. > > More: "This week, Google+ enabled up to 50 people > > < > http://www.readwriteweb.com/archives/google_adds_stream_noise_controls_50_admins_per_pa.php > > > > at a time to manage Google+ brand pages. Since brand pages are how > > organizations manage their presence on Google+, many page owners need to > > give multiple team members the ability to edit and moderate. Yesterday's > > update > > < > http://www.readwriteweb.com/archives/google_adds_stream_noise_controls_50_admins_per_pa.php > > > > not only allows a large team to control the page, it allows transfer of > > ownership. So if one person created your page but someone else needs to > be > > in charge of it, the creator can transfer that power. The Google+ > interface > > is a little busy, so here's a step-by-step guide for how to change > managers > > of a Google+ page. Managers have all the same powers > > < > http://support.google.com/plus/bin/answer.py?hl=en&answer=2380625&topic=1710599&ctx=topic > > > > as owners except for two key things: they can't delete the page, and they > > can't transfer ownership. Otherwise, both owners and managers can add and > > remove new managers, view the roster of managers (including their email > > addresses), adjust the page's settings (like notifications), and, most > > importantly, do page actions like post content and edit circles." > > > > So, this provides one with the ability to delete or edit pages or content > > within pages, i.e. posts and comments, as the need arises. > > > > Also, in combination with Google Drive (Google Docs) and Google Sites > > (website) allows us to create archives of discussion threads and > documents > > in various formats. Google Drive provides space for spreadsheets and > > documents created in many other formats. Archives of photos, videos, > > YouTube video channel, multimedia, sketches, blueprints, audio (stored in > > Sites or Drive or embedded in a Video with a single static image or > > slideshow) can be created and stored for free using Google resources. > > Having a YouTube channel for the list would be an effective to post > videos > > for the organization's community. Google+ allows creation of media > > galleries within each page, easily accessed by the public and easily > > managed. > > So as an extension to a mailing list or website one can have the > following: > > Google+ page, Google Site, YouTube Channel, Google Drive (Google Docs). > > > > __________________ > nafex mailing list > nafex at lists.ibiblio.org > subscribe/unsubscribe|user config|list info|make a donation toward list > maintenance: > http://lists.ibiblio.org/mailman/listinfo/nafex > message archives > http://lists.ibiblio.org/pipermail/nafex > Google message archive search: > site: lists.ibiblio.org/pipermail/nafex [searchstring] > nafex list mirror sites: > http://groups.google.com/group/nafexlist > https://sites.google.com/site/nafexmailinglist > Avant Geared http://www.avantgeared.com > -- Lawrence F. London lfljvenaura at gmail.com http://www.avantgeared.com https://plus.google.com/+Avantgeared Skype: lawrence.f.london From lfljvenaura at gmail.com Mon Sep 22 23:44:40 2014 From: lfljvenaura at gmail.com (Lawrence London) Date: Mon, 22 Sep 2014 23:44:40 -0400 Subject: [nafex] NAFEX on Facebook In-Reply-To: <99613F4A-F937-4D85-A88C-B42044236A98@ginda.us> References: <54209FE6.8070100@att.net> <99613F4A-F937-4D85-A88C-B42044236A98@ginda.us> Message-ID: On Mon, Sep 22, 2014 at 10:14 PM, Ginda Fisher wrote: > > ... > > I ran across the most perfect Google resource for an organization, one > that > > NAFEX ought to use... > > While some people distrust Google less than they distrust Facebook, I > don't see any advantage to NAFEX moving there. They can add a Google+ presence without deleting their Facebook one. Meikal's post shows how important Facebook is to many people, Nafex members included. > Facebook has a broader user base, and both have similar interfaces and > provide similar functionality. Both give you a glop of unorganized posts, > roughly chonological, with easy ways to include photos. Neither has the > "push" feature of email, nor can either be locally stored on your own > computer to review later. You can get notification of each and every post made to G+ circles you are added to. They include header info and some tect and graphics and certainly enough header info to do an effective search. Points out the need to create sensible subject lines. You can easily do a Google+ or Gmail search to find collections of posts on particular topics, i.. some obscure posts you or someone else made six years ago. This can be done easily and accurately. Also using GMail for your G+ feed allows you to add Thunderbird or Claws or Opera as a secondary email reader on your own computer receiving full IMAP feed from your GMail account. Sorting, searching and export can be done very elaborately with Thunderbird enabling you to organize posts in specific discussion threads. If these are G+ Circle post notifications then you can create index and pointer for valued posts. > The number of people who would strongly prefer G+ to Facebook is rather > small. (It includes some of my friends, so I know it exists, but I don't > think it's worth NAFEX pursuing.) > > Ginda > __________________ > nafex mailing list > nafex at lists.ibiblio.org > subscribe/unsubscribe|user config|list info|make a donation toward list > maintenance: > http://lists.ibiblio.org/mailman/listinfo/nafex > message archives > http://lists.ibiblio.org/pipermail/nafex > Google message archive search: > site: lists.ibiblio.org/pipermail/nafex [searchstring] > nafex list mirror sites: > http://groups.google.com/group/nafexlist > https://sites.google.com/site/nafexmailinglist > Avant Geared http://www.avantgeared.com > -- Lawrence F. London lfljvenaura at gmail.com http://www.avantgeared.com https://plus.google.com/+Avantgeared Skype: lawrence.f.london From qazingulaza at gmail.com Mon Sep 22 23:51:21 2014 From: qazingulaza at gmail.com (mIEKAL aND) Date: Mon, 22 Sep 2014 22:51:21 -0500 Subject: [nafex] NAFEX on Facebook In-Reply-To: References: <54209FE6.8070100@att.net> <99613F4A-F937-4D85-A88C-B42044236A98@ginda.us> Message-ID: Never mind. I posted an announcement to this listserv and the post was deleted. I did my part. On Mon, Sep 22, 2014 at 10:44 PM, Lawrence London wrote: > On Mon, Sep 22, 2014 at 10:14 PM, Ginda Fisher wrote: > >> > ... >> > I ran across the most perfect Google resource for an organization, one >> that >> > NAFEX ought to use... >> >> While some people distrust Google less than they distrust Facebook, I >> don't see any advantage to NAFEX moving there. > > > They can add a Google+ presence without deleting their Facebook one. > Meikal's post shows how important Facebook is to many people, Nafex members > included. > > >> Facebook has a broader user base, and both have similar interfaces and >> provide similar functionality. Both give you a glop of unorganized posts, >> roughly chonological, with easy ways to include photos. Neither has the >> "push" feature of email, nor can either be locally stored on your own >> computer to review later. > > > You can get notification of each and every post made to G+ circles you are > added to. They include header info and some tect and graphics and certainly > enough header info to do an effective search. Points out the need to create > sensible subject lines. You can easily do a Google+ or Gmail search to find > collections of posts on particular topics, i.. some obscure posts you or > someone else made six years ago. This can be done easily and accurately. > Also using GMail for your G+ feed allows you to add Thunderbird or Claws or > Opera as a secondary email reader on your own computer receiving full IMAP > feed from your GMail account. > Sorting, searching and export can be done very elaborately with Thunderbird > enabling you to organize posts in specific discussion threads. If these are > G+ Circle post notifications then > you can create index and pointer for valued posts. > > >> The number of people who would strongly prefer G+ to Facebook is rather >> small. (It includes some of my friends, so I know it exists, but I don't >> think it's worth NAFEX pursuing.) >> >> Ginda >> __________________ >> nafex mailing list >> nafex at lists.ibiblio.org >> subscribe/unsubscribe|user config|list info|make a donation toward list >> maintenance: >> http://lists.ibiblio.org/mailman/listinfo/nafex >> message archives >> http://lists.ibiblio.org/pipermail/nafex >> Google message archive search: >> site: lists.ibiblio.org/pipermail/nafex [searchstring] >> nafex list mirror sites: >> http://groups.google.com/group/nafexlist >> https://sites.google.com/site/nafexmailinglist >> Avant Geared http://www.avantgeared.com >> > > > > -- > Lawrence F. London > lfljvenaura at gmail.com > http://www.avantgeared.com > https://plus.google.com/+Avantgeared > Skype: lawrence.f.london > __________________ > nafex mailing list > nafex at lists.ibiblio.org > subscribe/unsubscribe|user config|list info|make a donation toward list maintenance: > http://lists.ibiblio.org/mailman/listinfo/nafex > message archives > http://lists.ibiblio.org/pipermail/nafex > Google message archive search: > site: lists.ibiblio.org/pipermail/nafex [searchstring] > nafex list mirror sites: > http://groups.google.com/group/nafexlist > https://sites.google.com/site/nafexmailinglist > Avant Geared http://www.avantgeared.com From sherwindu at att.net Mon Sep 22 23:54:54 2014 From: sherwindu at att.net (sherwin) Date: Mon, 22 Sep 2014 22:54:54 -0500 Subject: [nafex] NAFEX on Facebook In-Reply-To: References: <54209FE6.8070100@att.net> <99613F4A-F937-4D85-A88C-B42044236A98@ginda.us> Message-ID: <5420EF0E.90702@att.net> On 9/22/2014 9:50 PM, mIEKAL aND wrote: > Seriously, there is a huge amount of under 35 energy on the various > Facebook permaculture, plant & orchard groups that I'm a part of. > It's sad that very few of them can be convinced to join a listserv and > sad that folks that have chimed into this thread are locked into one > possible version of information transmission. Facebook is just a > tool. You can run adblock plus and never ever see an ad or > advertising of any kind. you can streamline your permissions and your > behavior so your personal information is not harvested. You can be > involved in very very in depth conversations with other growers who > are interested in knowledge sharing. You get out of it what you put > into it. If you expect it to be a waste of time, it will. If you > decide to use it like a tool, like a pick axe or a refractometer, it > can be that. I run a nursery of edible plants and generate a large > percentage of online sales via facebook, and locally here in the very > rural area I live in, I would never bother doing an event without > using it, because here is really no other way locally for folks to > hear about events. > > That said, I'll try to get a thread going on the facebook page to see > if any of the folks there not subbed to this list would be interested > in joining. > > OK, you need facebook to run your business. I am not shopping at your place, so I don't need it. Facebook carries too much baggage to be of interest to me. When I do use it for personal communications with family, I feel like I am not in control. Facebook takes me where I don't want to go. It substitutes strings and names trying to be super smart. It's way more complicated than what I need for fruit growing information. It's full of nonsensical chit chat by people trying to be cute or keep a conversation going way beyond what is necessary. I will stick with Ibiblio, thank you. Sherwin Dubren From lfljvenaura at gmail.com Tue Sep 23 00:41:29 2014 From: lfljvenaura at gmail.com (Lawrence London) Date: Tue, 23 Sep 2014 00:41:29 -0400 Subject: [nafex] NAFEX on Facebook In-Reply-To: References: <54209FE6.8070100@att.net> <99613F4A-F937-4D85-A88C-B42044236A98@ginda.us> Message-ID: On Mon, Sep 22, 2014 at 11:51 PM, mIEKAL aND wrote: > Never mind. I posted an announcement to this listserv and the post was > deleted. I did my part. > You posted it to the Nafex FB group? It would be pointless to delete that. Nafex should get plenty of mileage out of this forum. -- Lawrence F. London lfljvenaura at gmail.com http://www.avantgeared.com https://plus.google.com/+Avantgeared Skype: lawrence.f.london From qazingulaza at gmail.com Tue Sep 23 00:50:39 2014 From: qazingulaza at gmail.com (mIEKAL aND) Date: Mon, 22 Sep 2014 23:50:39 -0500 Subject: [nafex] NAFEX on Facebook In-Reply-To: References: <54209FE6.8070100@att.net> <99613F4A-F937-4D85-A88C-B42044236A98@ginda.us> Message-ID: Never the twains shall meet. On Mon, Sep 22, 2014 at 11:41 PM, Lawrence London wrote: > > On Mon, Sep 22, 2014 at 11:51 PM, mIEKAL aND wrote: >> >> Never mind. I posted an announcement to this listserv and the post was >> deleted. I did my part. > > > You posted it to the Nafex FB group? It would be pointless to delete that. > Nafex should get plenty of mileage out of this forum. > > -- > Lawrence F. London > lfljvenaura at gmail.com > http://www.avantgeared.com > https://plus.google.com/+Avantgeared > Skype: lawrence.f.london From toni.pralle at gmail.com Tue Sep 23 08:57:51 2014 From: toni.pralle at gmail.com (Toni Pralle) Date: Tue, 23 Sep 2014 07:57:51 -0500 Subject: [nafex] facebook Message-ID: I'm not on it and will not be on it. My loss, I guess, but just don't have the need to be there. -- Toni in Iowa USA ************************************************ Feminism in 2014 comes from the same place it always has: the radical notion that women are people. ************************************************ From qazingulaza at gmail.com Tue Sep 23 08:57:51 2014 From: qazingulaza at gmail.com (mIEKAL aND) Date: Tue, 23 Sep 2014 07:57:51 -0500 Subject: [nafex] looking for a hardiness listing of peach rootstock Message-ID: <74BE0A22-C197-486E-BA6E-75F88BA8686D@gmail.com> I'm beginning to think that part of the reason I lost almost 50 grafted peach trees last winter has as much to do with rootstock hardiness and the cultivars themselves. I'm wondering if anyone knows of a hardiness listing of peach rootstocks? In particular Nemaguard, Lovell, St Julian A, Krymsk 1, Mariana 2624 and any other so-called hardy peach stocks. Several places are listing Lovell as a zone 7 rootstock, something I did not realize. ~mIEKAL From toni.pralle at gmail.com Tue Sep 23 08:59:31 2014 From: toni.pralle at gmail.com (Toni Pralle) Date: Tue, 23 Sep 2014 07:59:31 -0500 Subject: [nafex] You must log in to continue. Facebook Message-ID: Nope. Can't see it mIEKAL aND -- Toni in Iowa USA ************************************************ Feminism in 2014 comes from the same place it always has: the radical notion that women are people. ************************************************ From toni.pralle at gmail.com Tue Sep 23 09:12:46 2014 From: toni.pralle at gmail.com (Toni Pralle) Date: Tue, 23 Sep 2014 08:12:46 -0500 Subject: [nafex] change delivery setting Message-ID: I can't find where to change from digest to individual. This link just goes to the same page it's on Subscribe, unsubscribe, change user configuration, list information: http://lists.ibiblio.org/mailman/listinfo/nafex -- Toni in Iowa USA ************************************************ Feminism in 2014 comes from the same place it always has: the radical notion that women are people. ************************************************ From lfljvenaura at gmail.com Tue Sep 23 10:56:12 2014 From: lfljvenaura at gmail.com (Lawrence London) Date: Tue, 23 Sep 2014 10:56:12 -0400 Subject: [nafex] change delivery setting In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On Tue, Sep 23, 2014 at 9:12 AM, Toni Pralle wrote: > I can't find where to change from digest to individual. This link just > goes to the same page it's on Subscribe, unsubscribe, change user > configuration, list information: > http://lists.ibiblio.org/mailman/listinfo/nafex > > It is easy to do. at the above URL you will find these instructions: <> Summary: Be sure to save your password sent to you when you subscribed. If you forget it you can have the list send you a reminder in email. You may subscribe or manage your user account at: http://lists.ibiblio.org/mailman/listinfo/nafex Go here [http://lists.ibiblio.org/mailman/listinfo/nafex] to subscribe to the list or if you ever want to unsubscribe or change your user options (eg, switch to or from digest mode, change your password, etc.). You can visit your subscription page here. Be sure to save the email sent to you when you subscribed. This will contain the password you will need to access your user options. If you can't find your password then go to the list homepage: (http://lists.ibiblio.org/mailman/listinfo/nafex) and fill out the form to send you a password reminder Where it says: "To unsubscribe from nafex, get a password reminder, or change your subscription options enter your subscription email address" (the subscription address referred to is the one used when you subscribed to the list). Fill in this form with your email ID then click on [unsubscribe or edit options] <> So, just fill out that form and click on the link provided next in sequence and look for email from the list with your password. Then log in at the same page, http://lists.ibiblio.org/mailman/listinfo/nafex, and change your user options. If you still can't get it done let me know and I will do it for you (applies to any subscriber needing help with his account). LL Toni in Iowa USA > ************************************************ > Feminism in 2014 comes from the same place it always has: the radical > notion that women are people. > ************************************************ > __________________ > nafex mailing list > nafex at lists.ibiblio.org > subscribe/unsubscribe|user config|list info|make a donation toward list > maintenance: > http://lists.ibiblio.org/mailman/listinfo/nafex > message archives > http://lists.ibiblio.org/pipermail/nafex > Google message archive search: > site: lists.ibiblio.org/pipermail/nafex [searchstring] > nafex list mirror sites: > http://groups.google.com/group/nafexlist > https://sites.google.com/site/nafexmailinglist > Avant Geared http://www.avantgeared.com > -- Lawrence F. London lfljvenaura at gmail.com http://www.avantgeared.com https://plus.google.com/+Avantgeared Skype: lawrence.f.london From jhenderson at ithaca.edu Tue Sep 23 11:38:22 2014 From: jhenderson at ithaca.edu (John Henderson) Date: Tue, 23 Sep 2014 15:38:22 +0000 Subject: [nafex] Hubbardston - Ellison's (Richard) In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <1411486701386.56217@ithaca.edu> We have one Hubbardston tree. The apples have been handsome and relatively large. The flavor is well-balanced, on the milder, sweeter side of sub-acid. Our tree has been annual, and one of our most reliable croppers. The apples start off nice and shiny, but they do get greasy in storage. Our current favorite in the reliable, annual red apple category is King David. It is on the tart side, but is much more, with a rich, spicy flavor. The apples aren't large. I was concerned that they might ripen too late here in the Finger Lakes, but that hasn't been the case. Decided against Ellison years ago, based in part on the anise flavor reputation. John Henderson Sage Hen Farm Lodi, NY Date: Tue, 2 Sep 2014 20:44:36 +0000 From: Richard To: nafex Subject: [nafex] Hubbardston - Ellison's Message-ID: Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Hello Troops: It's Murph again... I got Zestars like crazy this year. Jeeziz !! Have any of you grown Hubbardston Nonesuch or Ellison's Orange apples? I'm going to plant another 30 apple trees this spring, mostly Heirloom and some 'new' varieties. As you probably know, apple growth habits of a given variety can vary quite a bit with soil, water and climate. Reading catalog / orchard descriptions and opinions is almost a crap shoot. So, I'm interested in these two varieties. Does the Ellison really smell like anise seed? All the Hubbardstons I've seen are large and handsome; are they? Also, I'm looking for a good reliable annual cropper of red fruit. Any variety come to mind. I value your opinions more than any text book ever written, or catalog..... Please illuminate me. Murph From bnichols at ecotechinc.com Tue Sep 23 12:22:52 2014 From: bnichols at ecotechinc.com (Barry Nichols) Date: Tue, 23 Sep 2014 16:22:52 +0000 Subject: [nafex] NAFEX on Facebook In-Reply-To: <948CD2C06176413D9B5CC947E420DAC7@farmerdavePC> References: <948CD2C06176413D9B5CC947E420DAC7@farmerdavePC> Message-ID: <6CA30FF17315EB42A0235E62A0679F6B0108E3F8ED@SERVER1.eco.local> There is a LOT wrong with the opinion expressed below. I want to start off restating the aspects which ARE correct. NAFEX, like most similar organizations, has experienced a decline in membership. Boards become entrenched, people who worked tirelessly for organizations slow down, marketing and recruitment wane for decades and time shows culture changes quite a bit. So, I would agree that social media has a part to play in people focusing their interests and seeking out the proverbial birds-of-a-feather. Not too many years ago it might take weeks to get answers via mail unless one was willing to fork over a large amount for long-distance calls...remember those black things with the little dial with fingerholes? ;) That said, ALL communication platforms have limitations as well as areas of strength. If, as you rightly describe below, one is looking for "light conversation", social media works. How many of us want more info? Social media is also good for a sort of chat-of-the-moment. It is not as good as a listserv for more in depth discussions and archives...and that's fine. It wasn't designed to be. Additionally, just a presence on facebook doesn't mean that creates members. Years ago I was surprised at how many forum members were not members of NAFEX. The forum certainly had the attention of non-member fruit-growers. How can that be? The assumption that since everyone does not mindlessly accept certain communicative platforms means it is a generational issue, or that someone is really missing out if they don't interact on twitter and facebook is faulty at best. I *could* drive a Seguay across the country but would p[robably be better served in my trusty old car. Social media platforms ARE pretty good from a marketing perspective. However, because of the usability of the various platforms, many do not lend themselves well to more in-depth disussion. I'll take my copy of POMONA rather than have to wade through all the copy on Facebook or any of the other platforms-of-the-moment. Lest this be turned into some rant from a luddite, I use computers, both professsionally and personally, day and night, I have 2 smartphones, a tablet, 3 desktops, and a laptop. I carry a signal booster in my vehicles because my work also takes me far off the beaten path. I LIKE technology. I just don't think some of the bells and whistles are worth trading away my privacy rights, nor do I think I should limit my interactions with others or my reading to easily digested bites found only on twitter and facebook...and I really don't need to see a picture of the really great pizza someone had for lunch. I do agree there should be a presence, but I think we should recognize why we're there, and the limitations as well as the benefits. We should also realize, we're not all going to drive the same cars. While some of us may stream content, we also buy CDs and DVDs. And vinyl records are on the rise again...mainly fueled by a much younger audience who were not around for them the first time. Social media should be additive NOT substitutive. YMMV...and as I stated before, that is why these platforms exist. -----Original Message----- From: nafex [mailto:nafex-bounces at lists.ibiblio.org] On Behalf Of Deannie Hughes Sent: Monday, September 22, 2014 9:24 PM To: Jwlehman at aol.com; nafex mailing list at ibiblio Subject: Re: [nafex] NAFEX on Facebook Ladies and Gentlemen, This conversation is one of the symtoms of a dying NAFEX. The refusal to change with the time and modes of communication means that no new people are coming into the fold. Young people have already moved beyond Facebook to newer platforms. Facebook is there for light conversation. Pictures of your latest whatever, keeping in touch. Ibiblio can be a format for more in depth discussion. Facebook can be an outreach tool to attract new people into the organization. Use it to make NAFEX look cool and fun and maybe it can grow a new crop of fruit lovers ----- Original Message ----- From: "Jwlehman--- via nafex" To: Sent: Monday, September 22, 2014 8:02 PM Subject: Re: [nafex] NAFEX on Facebook > Every day I get several messages where someone has posted a picture, I > could spend all day looking at pictures. The Indiana Nut & Fruit > Growers has a FB page. When someone posts a question one must sign on > to answer, then fight their commercials. Much simpler and faster to > reply to questions on this net, ibiblio. > FB is OK for people with lots of time on their hands and don't mind > commercials, but not my cup of tea. > > Jerry Lehman > > > > In a message dated 9/22/2014 11:46:55 A.M. Eastern Daylight Time, > lfljvenaura at gmail.com writes: > > On Mon, Sep 22, 2014 at 11:32 AM, mIEKAL aND > wrote: > >> My reason for mentioning this is that there are things that can be >> done > to >> integrate. In the very least, I or others that are on both can post > things >> back to this list. Since the Facebook group is public, the links of >> people's posts are viewable on the web, even if you are not a member. >> >> For instance I just posted a hopped apple mead recipe I just made. >> You should be able to click on this link and see the pictures and >> the > recipe. >> >> >> https://www.facebook.com/groups/21070015101/permalink/101526855689251 >> 02/ >> >> ~mIEKAL > > > Thanks for pointing that out. I did not know that FB offered public > viewing of pages configured for that level of access. > > I hope others with FB accounts will crosspost Nafex FB page posts, > comments, videos and images freely to this forum. > > > > -- > Lawrence F. London > lfljvenaura at gmail.com > http://www.avantgeared.com > https://plus.google.com/+Avantgeared > Skype: lawrence.f.london > __________________ > nafex mailing list > nafex at lists.ibiblio.org > subscribe/unsubscribe|user config|list info|make a donation toward > list > maintenance: > http://lists.ibiblio.org/mailman/listinfo/nafex > message archives > http://lists.ibiblio.org/pipermail/nafex > Google message archive search: > site: lists.ibiblio.org/pipermail/nafex [searchstring] nafex list > mirror sites: > http://groups.google.com/group/nafexlist > https://sites.google.com/site/nafexmailinglist > Avant Geared http://www.avantgeared.com > > __________________ > nafex mailing list > nafex at lists.ibiblio.org > subscribe/unsubscribe|user config|list info|make a donation toward > list > maintenance: > http://lists.ibiblio.org/mailman/listinfo/nafex > message archives > http://lists.ibiblio.org/pipermail/nafex > Google message archive search: > site: lists.ibiblio.org/pipermail/nafex [searchstring] nafex list > mirror sites: > http://groups.google.com/group/nafexlist > https://sites.google.com/site/nafexmailinglist > Avant Geared http://www.avantgeared.com --- This email is free from viruses and malware because avast! Antivirus protection is active. http://www.avast.com __________________ nafex mailing list nafex at lists.ibiblio.org subscribe/unsubscribe|user config|list info|make a donation toward list maintenance: http://lists.ibiblio.org/mailman/listinfo/nafex message archives http://lists.ibiblio.org/pipermail/nafex Google message archive search: site: lists.ibiblio.org/pipermail/nafex [searchstring] nafex list mirror sites: http://groups.google.com/group/nafexlist https://sites.google.com/site/nafexmailinglist Avant Geared http://www.avantgeared.com From lfljvenaura at gmail.com Tue Sep 23 13:16:11 2014 From: lfljvenaura at gmail.com (Lawrence London) Date: Tue, 23 Sep 2014 13:16:11 -0400 Subject: [nafex] Change in the name of this list: Northamerican Allied Fruit Experimenters (nafex mailing list at ibiblio) Message-ID: On Tue, Sep 23, 2014 at 12:50 AM, mIEKAL aND wrote: > Never the twains shall meet. > Censorship, anti-competitive, short-sighted. The email name, nafex, can not be changed but the list name can, and that is what I have decided to do. This forum is now called Northamerican Allied Fruit Experimenters or nafex mailing list at ibiblio. Would Northamerican Allied Fruit Enthusiasts be better? Changes are now effective at the list homepage and in message footers. -- Lawrence F. London lfljvenaura at gmail.com http://www.avantgeared.com https://plus.google.com/+Avantgeared Skype: lawrence.f.london From debs913 at gmail.com Tue Sep 23 13:18:44 2014 From: debs913 at gmail.com (Deb Schneider) Date: Tue, 23 Sep 2014 13:18:44 -0400 Subject: [nafex] NAFEX on Facebook In-Reply-To: <6CA30FF17315EB42A0235E62A0679F6B0108E3F8ED@SERVER1.eco.local> References: <948CD2C06176413D9B5CC947E420DAC7@farmerdavePC> <6CA30FF17315EB42A0235E62A0679F6B0108E3F8ED@SERVER1.eco.local> Message-ID: NAFEX began as a round robin hand written newsletter. A member would write a report and send it to the next member who would add their report and so on. That origin is, to my mind, the same as Facebook! We've come full circle, only now we can do our reports and send them instantly. I find it somewhat ironic and sort of cool. :D deb On Tue, Sep 23, 2014 at 12:22 PM, Barry Nichols wrote: > There is a LOT wrong with the opinion expressed below. I want to start off > restating the aspects which ARE correct. NAFEX, like most similar > organizations, has experienced a decline in membership. Boards become > entrenched, people who worked tirelessly for organizations slow down, > marketing and recruitment wane for decades and time shows culture changes > quite a bit. So, I would agree that social media has a part to play in > people focusing their interests and seeking out the proverbial > birds-of-a-feather. Not too many years ago it might take weeks to get > answers via mail unless one was willing to fork over a large amount for > long-distance calls...remember those black things with the little dial with > fingerholes? ;) That said, ALL communication platforms have limitations as > well as areas of strength. If, as you rightly describe below, one is > looking for "light conversation", social media works. How many of us want > more info? Social media is also good for a sort of chat-of-the-mo > ment. It is not as good as a listserv for more in depth discussions and > archives...and that's fine. It wasn't designed to be. Additionally, just a > presence on facebook doesn't mean that creates members. Years ago I was > surprised at how many forum members were not members of NAFEX. The forum > certainly had the attention of non-member fruit-growers. How can that be? > > The assumption that since everyone does not mindlessly accept certain > communicative platforms means it is a generational issue, or that someone > is really missing out if they don't interact on twitter and facebook is > faulty at best. I *could* drive a Seguay across the country but would > p[robably be better served in my trusty old car. Social media platforms ARE > pretty good from a marketing perspective. However, because of the usability > of the various platforms, many do not lend themselves well to more in-depth > disussion. I'll take my copy of POMONA rather than have to wade through all > the copy on Facebook or any of the other platforms-of-the-moment. > Lest this be turned into some rant from a luddite, I use computers, both > professsionally and personally, day and night, I have 2 smartphones, a > tablet, 3 desktops, and a laptop. I carry a signal booster in my vehicles > because my work also takes me far off the beaten path. I LIKE technology. I > just don't think some of the bel > ls and whistles are worth trading away my privacy rights, nor do I think > I should limit my interactions with others or my reading to easily digested > bites found only on twitter and facebook...and I really don't need to see a > picture of the really great pizza someone had for lunch. I do agree there > should be a presence, but I think we should recognize why we're there, and > the limitations as well as the benefits. We should also realize, we're not > all going to drive the same cars. While some of us may stream content, we > also buy CDs and DVDs. And vinyl records are on the rise again...mainly > fueled by a much younger audience who were not around for them the first > time. Social media should be additive NOT substitutive. YMMV...and as I > stated before, that is why these platforms exist. > > -----Original Message----- > From: nafex [mailto:nafex-bounces at lists.ibiblio.org] On Behalf Of Deannie > Hughes > Sent: Monday, September 22, 2014 9:24 PM > To: Jwlehman at aol.com; nafex mailing list at ibiblio > Subject: Re: [nafex] NAFEX on Facebook > > Ladies and Gentlemen, > This conversation is one of the symtoms of a dying NAFEX. The refusal to > change with the time and modes of communication means that no new people > are coming into the fold. Young people have already moved beyond Facebook > to newer platforms. > Facebook is there for light conversation. Pictures of your latest > whatever, keeping in touch. Ibiblio can be a format for more in depth > discussion. > Facebook can be an outreach tool to attract new people into the > organization. Use it to make NAFEX look cool and fun and maybe it can grow > a new crop of fruit lovers > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Jwlehman--- via nafex" > To: > Sent: Monday, September 22, 2014 8:02 PM > Subject: Re: [nafex] NAFEX on Facebook > > > > Every day I get several messages where someone has posted a picture, I > > could spend all day looking at pictures. The Indiana Nut & Fruit > > Growers has a FB page. When someone posts a question one must sign on > > to answer, then fight their commercials. Much simpler and faster to > > reply to questions on this net, ibiblio. > > FB is OK for people with lots of time on their hands and don't mind > > commercials, but not my cup of tea. > > > > Jerry Lehman > > > > > > > > In a message dated 9/22/2014 11:46:55 A.M. Eastern Daylight Time, > > lfljvenaura at gmail.com writes: > > > > On Mon, Sep 22, 2014 at 11:32 AM, mIEKAL aND > > wrote: > > > >> My reason for mentioning this is that there are things that can be > >> done > > to > >> integrate. In the very least, I or others that are on both can post > > things > >> back to this list. Since the Facebook group is public, the links of > >> people's posts are viewable on the web, even if you are not a member. > >> > >> For instance I just posted a hopped apple mead recipe I just made. > >> You should be able to click on this link and see the pictures and > >> the > > recipe. > >> > >> > >> https://www.facebook.com/groups/21070015101/permalink/101526855689251 > >> 02/ > >> > >> ~mIEKAL > > > > > > Thanks for pointing that out. I did not know that FB offered public > > viewing of pages configured for that level of access. > > > > I hope others with FB accounts will crosspost Nafex FB page posts, > > comments, videos and images freely to this forum. > > > > > > > > -- > > Lawrence F. London > > lfljvenaura at gmail.com > > http://www.avantgeared.com > > https://plus.google.com/+Avantgeared > > Skype: lawrence.f.london > > __________________ > > nafex mailing list > > nafex at lists.ibiblio.org > > subscribe/unsubscribe|user config|list info|make a donation toward > > list > > maintenance: > > http://lists.ibiblio.org/mailman/listinfo/nafex > > message archives > > http://lists.ibiblio.org/pipermail/nafex > > Google message archive search: > > site: lists.ibiblio.org/pipermail/nafex [searchstring] nafex list > > mirror sites: > > http://groups.google.com/group/nafexlist > > https://sites.google.com/site/nafexmailinglist > > Avant Geared http://www.avantgeared.com > > > > __________________ > > nafex mailing list > > nafex at lists.ibiblio.org > > subscribe/unsubscribe|user config|list info|make a donation toward > > list > > maintenance: > > http://lists.ibiblio.org/mailman/listinfo/nafex > > message archives > > http://lists.ibiblio.org/pipermail/nafex > > Google message archive search: > > site: lists.ibiblio.org/pipermail/nafex [searchstring] nafex list > > mirror sites: > > http://groups.google.com/group/nafexlist > > https://sites.google.com/site/nafexmailinglist > > Avant Geared http://www.avantgeared.com > > > --- > This email is free from viruses and malware because avast! Antivirus > protection is active. > http://www.avast.com > > __________________ > nafex mailing list > nafex at lists.ibiblio.org > subscribe/unsubscribe|user config|list info|make a donation toward list > maintenance: > http://lists.ibiblio.org/mailman/listinfo/nafex > message archives > http://lists.ibiblio.org/pipermail/nafex > Google message archive search: > site: lists.ibiblio.org/pipermail/nafex [searchstring] nafex list mirror > sites: > http://groups.google.com/group/nafexlist > https://sites.google.com/site/nafexmailinglist > Avant Geared http://www.avantgeared.com > __________________ > nafex mailing list > nafex at lists.ibiblio.org > Northamerican Allied Fruit Experimenters > subscribe/unsubscribe|user config|list info|make a donation toward list > maintenance: > http://lists.ibiblio.org/mailman/listinfo/nafex > message archives > http://lists.ibiblio.org/pipermail/nafex > Google message archive search: > site: lists.ibiblio.org/pipermail/nafex [searchstring] > nafex list mirror sites: > http://groups.google.com/group/nafexlist > https://sites.google.com/site/nafexmailinglist > Avant Geared http://www.avantgeared.com > From organic87 at frontiernet.net Tue Sep 23 13:47:08 2014 From: organic87 at frontiernet.net (Road's End Farm) Date: Tue, 23 Sep 2014 13:47:08 -0400 Subject: [nafex] NAFEX on Facebook In-Reply-To: <6CA30FF17315EB42A0235E62A0679F6B0108E3F8ED@SERVER1.eco.local> References: <948CD2C06176413D9B5CC947E420DAC7@farmerdavePC> <6CA30FF17315EB42A0235E62A0679F6B0108E3F8ED@SERVER1.eco.local> Message-ID: <728FCC43-F643-4B04-8429-E9712E2F410B@frontiernet.net> To clarify: I can't speak for the others on here who are not interested in following NAFEX on a social media format; but, for myself at least, I've no objection to NAFEX having a presence there. I think that's very likely a good idea. But I still don't want to deal with a social media site, whether it involves circles or walls. (That google+ explanation sounds massively complicated, both for members and for administrators. I note that even Lawrence says he'd have to do a lot more research to figure out how it would work.) There are lots more options than there used to be. Nobody's got time to deal with them all. Different people prefer different ones. The increase in options has large advantages. The disadvantage, of course, is that groups tend to fragment. Not only is there more information out there than anyone can keep up with (which has always been true, of course; even before the invention of writing, as there's more information in the universe than anybody can keep up with); but at the moment there are more types of human communication available than anybody can keep up with. Complaining because people don't want to use one's favored method is a waste of time. Trying to figure out whether there are enough people who want to keep up with the listserve to keep it going, or how many of us would use which other method, is not a waste of time; but I very much doubt it's going to result in a single clear answer that suits everybody. -- Rivka; Finger Lakes NY, Zone 6A now I think Fresh-market organic produce, small scale From debs913 at gmail.com Tue Sep 23 13:56:59 2014 From: debs913 at gmail.com (Deb Schneider) Date: Tue, 23 Sep 2014 13:56:59 -0400 Subject: [nafex] Change in the name of this list: Northamerican Allied Fruit Experimenters (nafex mailing list at ibiblio) In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: So you are no longer affiliated with NAFEX? I'll remove the link from the website. deb On Tue, Sep 23, 2014 at 1:16 PM, Lawrence London wrote: > On Tue, Sep 23, 2014 at 12:50 AM, mIEKAL aND > wrote: > > > Never the twains shall meet. > > > > Censorship, anti-competitive, short-sighted. > The email name, nafex, can not be changed but the list name can, and that > is what I have decided to do. > > This forum is now called Northamerican Allied Fruit Experimenters or nafex > mailing list at ibiblio. > Would Northamerican Allied Fruit Enthusiasts be better? > Changes are now effective at the list homepage and in message footers. > > -- > Lawrence F. London > lfljvenaura at gmail.com > http://www.avantgeared.com > https://plus.google.com/+Avantgeared > Skype: lawrence.f.london > __________________ > nafex mailing list > nafex at lists.ibiblio.org > Northamerican Allied Fruit Experimenters > subscribe/unsubscribe|user config|list info|make a donation toward list > maintenance: > http://lists.ibiblio.org/mailman/listinfo/nafex > message archives > http://lists.ibiblio.org/pipermail/nafex > Google message archive search: > site: lists.ibiblio.org/pipermail/nafex [searchstring] > nafex list mirror sites: > http://groups.google.com/group/nafexlist > https://sites.google.com/site/nafexmailinglist > Avant Geared http://www.avantgeared.com > From list at ginda.us Tue Sep 23 13:59:53 2014 From: list at ginda.us (Ginda Fisher) Date: Tue, 23 Sep 2014 13:59:53 -0400 Subject: [nafex] Change in the name of this list: Northamerican Allied Fruit Experimenters (nafex mailing list at ibiblio) In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Hey, guys, please don't fight. I think we are all better off if the different media complement each other. -- Typed with Swype. Who knows what I meant to say? On September 23, 2014 1:56:59 PM EDT, Deb Schneider wrote: >So you are no longer affiliated with NAFEX? I'll remove the link from >the >website. > >deb > >On Tue, Sep 23, 2014 at 1:16 PM, Lawrence London > >wrote: > >> On Tue, Sep 23, 2014 at 12:50 AM, mIEKAL aND >> wrote: >> >> > Never the twains shall meet. >> > >> >> Censorship, anti-competitive, short-sighted. >> The email name, nafex, can not be changed but the list name can, and >that >> is what I have decided to do. >> >> This forum is now called Northamerican Allied Fruit Experimenters or >nafex >> mailing list at ibiblio. >> Would Northamerican Allied Fruit Enthusiasts be better? >> Changes are now effective at the list homepage and in message >footers. >> >> -- >> Lawrence F. London >> lfljvenaura at gmail.com >> http://www.avantgeared.com >> https://plus.google.com/+Avantgeared >> Skype: lawrence.f.london >> __________________ >> nafex mailing list >> nafex at lists.ibiblio.org >> Northamerican Allied Fruit Experimenters >> subscribe/unsubscribe|user config|list info|make a donation toward >list >> maintenance: >> http://lists.ibiblio.org/mailman/listinfo/nafex >> message archives >> http://lists.ibiblio.org/pipermail/nafex >> Google message archive search: >> site: lists.ibiblio.org/pipermail/nafex [searchstring] >> nafex list mirror sites: >> http://groups.google.com/group/nafexlist >> https://sites.google.com/site/nafexmailinglist >> Avant Geared http://www.avantgeared.com >> >__________________ >nafex mailing list >nafex at lists.ibiblio.org >Northamerican Allied Fruit Experimenters >subscribe/unsubscribe|user config|list info|make a donation toward list >maintenance: >http://lists.ibiblio.org/mailman/listinfo/nafex >message archives >http://lists.ibiblio.org/pipermail/nafex >Google message archive search: >site: lists.ibiblio.org/pipermail/nafex [searchstring] >nafex list mirror sites: >http://groups.google.com/group/nafexlist >https://sites.google.com/site/nafexmailinglist >Avant Geared http://www.avantgeared.com From davidndeannie at nctc.com Tue Sep 23 14:06:43 2014 From: davidndeannie at nctc.com (Deannie Hughes) Date: Tue, 23 Sep 2014 13:06:43 -0500 Subject: [nafex] NAFEX on Facebook In-Reply-To: <6CA30FF17315EB42A0235E62A0679F6B0108E3F8ED@SERVER1.eco.local> References: <948CD2C06176413D9B5CC947E420DAC7@farmerdavePC> <6CA30FF17315EB42A0235E62A0679F6B0108E3F8ED@SERVER1.eco.local> Message-ID: <848BEF6E4F5A49D590A7A566CAAE84D9@farmerdavePC> First, I am no tech or media expert. I have only been on facebook myself for a short period of time. It has its drawbacks to be sure. I am very surprised at who shows an interest in my postings. This is the point. I did not mean to suggest that this forum nor any other should be eliminated, but that a presence on the other platforms might draw in new blood and refresh the oganization. Nafex has been difficult for me to enjoy because I do not know but one or two other members. I have tried to join in on some discussions on topics I was interested in on this forum and was basically ignored. I enjoyed the paper version of Pomona and understand it is expensive to produce and mail thus it's demise. So, what is there for me or anyone else to want to join? It may be a sign of the times, that people are no longer joiners to any sort of organization. The internet as a whole has made information "free" though not neccessarily correct or even close to accurate. I suppose my suggestion is to be more inclusive as a forum. Maybe include people you don't know in your discussions. Try to make this forum a little less of a public display of private conversations. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Barry Nichols" To: "nafex mailing list at ibiblio" Sent: Tuesday, September 23, 2014 11:22 AM Subject: Re: [nafex] NAFEX on Facebook > There is a LOT wrong with the opinion expressed below. I want to start off > restating the aspects which ARE correct. NAFEX, like most similar > organizations, has experienced a decline in membership. Boards become > entrenched, people who worked tirelessly for organizations slow down, > marketing and recruitment wane for decades and time shows culture changes > quite a bit. So, I would agree that social media has a part to play in > people focusing their interests and seeking out the proverbial > birds-of-a-feather. Not too many years ago it might take weeks to get > answers via mail unless one was willing to fork over a large amount for > long-distance calls...remember those black things with the little dial > with fingerholes? ;) That said, ALL communication platforms have > limitations as well as areas of strength. If, as you rightly describe > below, one is looking for "light conversation", social media works. How > many of us want more info? Social media is also good for a sort of > chat-of-the-mo > ment. It is not as good as a listserv for more in depth discussions and > archives...and that's fine. It wasn't designed to be. Additionally, just a > presence on facebook doesn't mean that creates members. Years ago I was > surprised at how many forum members were not members of NAFEX. The forum > certainly had the attention of non-member fruit-growers. How can that be? > > The assumption that since everyone does not mindlessly accept certain > communicative platforms means it is a generational issue, or that someone > is really missing out if they don't interact on twitter and facebook is > faulty at best. I *could* drive a Seguay across the country but would > p[robably be better served in my trusty old car. Social media platforms > ARE pretty good from a marketing perspective. However, because of the > usability of the various platforms, many do not lend themselves well to > more in-depth disussion. I'll take my copy of POMONA rather than have to > wade through all the copy on Facebook or any of the other > platforms-of-the-moment. Lest this be turned into some rant from a > luddite, I use computers, both professsionally and personally, day and > night, I have 2 smartphones, a tablet, 3 desktops, and a laptop. I carry a > signal booster in my vehicles because my work also takes me far off the > beaten path. I LIKE technology. I just don't think some of the bel > ls and whistles are worth trading away my privacy rights, nor do I think I > should limit my interactions with others or my reading to easily digested > bites found only on twitter and facebook...and I really don't need to see > a picture of the really great pizza someone had for lunch. I do agree > there should be a presence, but I think we should recognize why we're > there, and the limitations as well as the benefits. We should also > realize, we're not all going to drive the same cars. While some of us may > stream content, we also buy CDs and DVDs. And vinyl records are on the > rise again...mainly fueled by a much younger audience who were not around > for them the first time. Social media should be additive NOT > substitutive. YMMV...and as I stated before, that is why these platforms > exist. > > -----Original Message----- > From: nafex [mailto:nafex-bounces at lists.ibiblio.org] On Behalf Of Deannie > Hughes > Sent: Monday, September 22, 2014 9:24 PM > To: Jwlehman at aol.com; nafex mailing list at ibiblio > Subject: Re: [nafex] NAFEX on Facebook > > Ladies and Gentlemen, > This conversation is one of the symtoms of a dying NAFEX. The refusal to > change with the time and modes of communication means that no new people > are coming into the fold. Young people have already moved beyond Facebook > to newer platforms. > Facebook is there for light conversation. Pictures of your latest > whatever, keeping in touch. Ibiblio can be a format for more in depth > discussion. > Facebook can be an outreach tool to attract new people into the > organization. Use it to make NAFEX look cool and fun and maybe it can grow > a new crop of fruit lovers > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Jwlehman--- via nafex" > To: > Sent: Monday, September 22, 2014 8:02 PM > Subject: Re: [nafex] NAFEX on Facebook > > >> Every day I get several messages where someone has posted a picture, I >> could spend all day looking at pictures. The Indiana Nut & Fruit >> Growers has a FB page. When someone posts a question one must sign on >> to answer, then fight their commercials. Much simpler and faster to >> reply to questions on this net, ibiblio. >> FB is OK for people with lots of time on their hands and don't mind >> commercials, but not my cup of tea. >> >> Jerry Lehman >> >> >> >> In a message dated 9/22/2014 11:46:55 A.M. Eastern Daylight Time, >> lfljvenaura at gmail.com writes: >> >> On Mon, Sep 22, 2014 at 11:32 AM, mIEKAL aND >> wrote: >> >>> My reason for mentioning this is that there are things that can be >>> done >> to >>> integrate. In the very least, I or others that are on both can post >> things >>> back to this list. Since the Facebook group is public, the links of >>> people's posts are viewable on the web, even if you are not a member. >>> >>> For instance I just posted a hopped apple mead recipe I just made. >>> You should be able to click on this link and see the pictures and >>> the >> recipe. >>> >>> >>> https://www.facebook.com/groups/21070015101/permalink/101526855689251 >>> 02/ >>> >>> ~mIEKAL >> >> >> Thanks for pointing that out. I did not know that FB offered public >> viewing of pages configured for that level of access. >> >> I hope others with FB accounts will crosspost Nafex FB page posts, >> comments, videos and images freely to this forum. >> >> >> >> -- >> Lawrence F. London >> lfljvenaura at gmail.com >> http://www.avantgeared.com >> https://plus.google.com/+Avantgeared >> Skype: lawrence.f.london >> __________________ >> nafex mailing list >> nafex at lists.ibiblio.org >> subscribe/unsubscribe|user config|list info|make a donation toward >> list >> maintenance: >> http://lists.ibiblio.org/mailman/listinfo/nafex >> message archives >> http://lists.ibiblio.org/pipermail/nafex >> Google message archive search: >> site: lists.ibiblio.org/pipermail/nafex [searchstring] nafex list >> mirror sites: >> http://groups.google.com/group/nafexlist >> https://sites.google.com/site/nafexmailinglist >> Avant Geared http://www.avantgeared.com >> >> __________________ >> nafex mailing list >> nafex at lists.ibiblio.org >> subscribe/unsubscribe|user config|list info|make a donation toward >> list >> maintenance: >> http://lists.ibiblio.org/mailman/listinfo/nafex >> message archives >> http://lists.ibiblio.org/pipermail/nafex >> Google message archive search: >> site: lists.ibiblio.org/pipermail/nafex [searchstring] nafex list >> mirror sites: >> http://groups.google.com/group/nafexlist >> https://sites.google.com/site/nafexmailinglist >> Avant Geared http://www.avantgeared.com > > > --- > This email is free from viruses and malware because avast! Antivirus > protection is active. > http://www.avast.com > > __________________ > nafex mailing list > nafex at lists.ibiblio.org > subscribe/unsubscribe|user config|list info|make a donation toward list > maintenance: > http://lists.ibiblio.org/mailman/listinfo/nafex > message archives > http://lists.ibiblio.org/pipermail/nafex > Google message archive search: > site: lists.ibiblio.org/pipermail/nafex [searchstring] nafex list mirror > sites: > http://groups.google.com/group/nafexlist > https://sites.google.com/site/nafexmailinglist > Avant Geared http://www.avantgeared.com > __________________ > nafex mailing list > nafex at lists.ibiblio.org > Northamerican Allied Fruit Experimenters > subscribe/unsubscribe|user config|list info|make a donation toward list > maintenance: > http://lists.ibiblio.org/mailman/listinfo/nafex > message archives > http://lists.ibiblio.org/pipermail/nafex > Google message archive search: > site: lists.ibiblio.org/pipermail/nafex [searchstring] > nafex list mirror sites: > http://groups.google.com/group/nafexlist > https://sites.google.com/site/nafexmailinglist > Avant Geared http://www.avantgeared.com --- This email is free from viruses and malware because avast! Antivirus protection is active. http://www.avast.com From lfljvenaura at gmail.com Tue Sep 23 14:25:59 2014 From: lfljvenaura at gmail.com (Lawrence London) Date: Tue, 23 Sep 2014 14:25:59 -0400 Subject: [nafex] Change in the name of this list: Northamerican Allied Fruit Experimenters (nafex mailing list at ibiblio) In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On Tue, Sep 23, 2014 at 1:56 PM, Deb Schneider wrote: > So you are no longer affiliated with NAFEX? I'll remove the link from the > website. > > That is a good idea. I had no idea there was a link to this forum there. Still, it might be worthwhile to put a list of online discussion forums your members might want to use on your website. It could include updated information about this list, Midfex and any others of interest, including ones that exist in social media sites. Anyway, making this change, defining the mission and purpose of this list as a forum independent of any organization, has been long overdue. This mailing list, Northamerican Allied Fruit Experimenters, is not affiliated with the North American Fruit Explorers organization or its online presence in any way. NAFEX members are welcome to join as are all other fruit and nut enthusiasts throughout the world. > deb > > On Tue, Sep 23, 2014 at 1:16 PM, Lawrence London > wrote: > > > On Tue, Sep 23, 2014 at 12:50 AM, mIEKAL aND > > wrote: > > > > > Never the twains shall meet. > > > > > > > Censorship, anti-competitive, short-sighted. > > The email name, nafex, can not be changed but the list name can, and that > > is what I have decided to do. > > > > This forum is now called Northamerican Allied Fruit Experimenters or > nafex > > mailing list at ibiblio. > > Would Northamerican Allied Fruit Enthusiasts be better? > > Changes are now effective at the list homepage and in message footers. > > > > -- > > Lawrence F. London > > lfljvenaura at gmail.com > > http://www.avantgeared.com > > https://plus.google.com/+Avantgeared > > Skype: lawrence.f.london > > __________________ > > nafex mailing list > > nafex at lists.ibiblio.org > > Northamerican Allied Fruit Experimenters > > subscribe/unsubscribe|user config|list info|make a donation toward list > > maintenance: > > http://lists.ibiblio.org/mailman/listinfo/nafex > > message archives > > http://lists.ibiblio.org/pipermail/nafex > > Google message archive search: > > site: lists.ibiblio.org/pipermail/nafex [searchstring] > > nafex list mirror sites: > > http://groups.google.com/group/nafexlist > > https://sites.google.com/site/nafexmailinglist > > Avant Geared http://www.avantgeared.com > > > __________________ > nafex mailing list > nafex at lists.ibiblio.org > Northamerican Allied Fruit Experimenters > subscribe/unsubscribe|user config|list info|make a donation toward list > maintenance: > http://lists.ibiblio.org/mailman/listinfo/nafex > message archives > http://lists.ibiblio.org/pipermail/nafex > Google message archive search: > site: lists.ibiblio.org/pipermail/nafex [searchstring] > nafex list mirror sites: > http://groups.google.com/group/nafexlist > https://sites.google.com/site/nafexmailinglist > Avant Geared http://www.avantgeared.com > -- Lawrence F. London lfljvenaura at gmail.com http://www.avantgeared.com https://plus.google.com/+Avantgeared Skype: lawrence.f.london From lpittman at murraystate.edu Tue Sep 23 14:28:42 2014 From: lpittman at murraystate.edu (Louis Pittman) Date: Tue, 23 Sep 2014 13:28:42 -0500 Subject: [nafex] NAFEX on Facebook In-Reply-To: <848BEF6E4F5A49D590A7A566CAAE84D9@farmerdavePC> References: <948CD2C06176413D9B5CC947E420DAC7@farmerdavePC> <6CA30FF17315EB42A0235E62A0679F6B0108E3F8ED@SERVER1.eco.local> <848BEF6E4F5A49D590A7A566CAAE84D9@farmerdavePC> Message-ID: David/Deanie, I've been a member of NAFEX, and a user of the listserve, for nearly 20 years. There has been more 'traffic' in years past than in the most recent year or two. I've come to 'know' a lot of folks across the country - and the world, for that matter - through participation and reading on this listserve. I can probably count on one hand the number of list participants whom I've actually met, face-to-face - but that doesn't preclude me from calling them my friends, and I don't hesitate to ask for or offer to share information, plant materials, etc. It's been a very gratifying experience over the many years, and I have techniques and plants that would have otherwise been unknown to, or unavailable to me. Yes, I'm on FB, and see some of the FB posts - and have responded to a few; but the NAFEX email discussion list is still my 'go-to'... Both platforms have their place/use, but for me, the listserve is more effective. Lucky Pittman Hopkinsville, KY On Tue, Sep 23, 2014 at 1:06 PM, Deannie Hughes wrote: > First, I am no tech or media expert. I have only been on facebook myself > for a short period of time. It has its drawbacks to be sure. I am very > surprised at who shows an interest in my postings. This is the point. I did > not mean to suggest that this forum nor any other should be eliminated, but > that a presence on the other platforms might draw in new blood and refresh > the oganization. Nafex has been difficult for me to enjoy because I do not > know but one or two other members. I have tried to join in on some > discussions on topics I was interested in on this forum and was basically > ignored. I enjoyed the paper version of Pomona and understand it is > expensive to produce and mail thus it's demise. So, what is there for me or > anyone else to want to join? > It may be a sign of the times, that people are no longer joiners to any > sort of organization. The internet as a whole has made information "free" > though not neccessarily correct or even close to accurate. I suppose my > suggestion is to be more inclusive as a forum. Maybe include people you > don't know in your discussions. Try to make this forum a little less of a > public display of private conversations. > ----- Original Message ----- From: "Barry Nichols" < > bnichols at ecotechinc.com> > To: "nafex mailing list at ibiblio" > Sent: Tuesday, September 23, 2014 11:22 AM > Subject: Re: [nafex] NAFEX on Facebook > > > There is a LOT wrong with the opinion expressed below. I want to start >> off restating the aspects which ARE correct. NAFEX, like most similar >> organizations, has experienced a decline in membership. Boards become >> entrenched, people who worked tirelessly for organizations slow down, >> marketing and recruitment wane for decades and time shows culture changes >> quite a bit. So, I would agree that social media has a part to play in >> people focusing their interests and seeking out the proverbial >> birds-of-a-feather. Not too many years ago it might take weeks to get >> answers via mail unless one was willing to fork over a large amount for >> long-distance calls...remember those black things with the little dial with >> fingerholes? ;) That said, ALL communication platforms have limitations as >> well as areas of strength. If, as you rightly describe below, one is >> looking for "light conversation", social media works. How many of us want >> more info? Social media is also good for a sort of chat-of-the-mo >> ment. It is not as good as a listserv for more in depth discussions and >> archives...and that's fine. It wasn't designed to be. Additionally, just a >> presence on facebook doesn't mean that creates members. Years ago I was >> surprised at how many forum members were not members of NAFEX. The forum >> certainly had the attention of non-member fruit-growers. How can that be? >> >> The assumption that since everyone does not mindlessly accept certain >> communicative platforms means it is a generational issue, or that someone >> is really missing out if they don't interact on twitter and facebook is >> faulty at best. I *could* drive a Seguay across the country but would >> p[robably be better served in my trusty old car. Social media platforms ARE >> pretty good from a marketing perspective. However, because of the usability >> of the various platforms, many do not lend themselves well to more in-depth >> disussion. I'll take my copy of POMONA rather than have to wade through all >> the copy on Facebook or any of the other platforms-of-the-moment. >> Lest this be turned into some rant from a luddite, I use computers, both >> professsionally and personally, day and night, I have 2 smartphones, a >> tablet, 3 desktops, and a laptop. I carry a signal booster in my vehicles >> because my work also takes me far off the beaten path. I LIKE technology. I >> just don't think some of the bel >> ls and whistles are worth trading away my privacy rights, nor do I think >> I should limit my interactions with others or my reading to easily digested >> bites found only on twitter and facebook...and I really don't need to see a >> picture of the really great pizza someone had for lunch. I do agree there >> should be a presence, but I think we should recognize why we're there, and >> the limitations as well as the benefits. We should also realize, we're not >> all going to drive the same cars. While some of us may stream content, we >> also buy CDs and DVDs. And vinyl records are on the rise again...mainly >> fueled by a much younger audience who were not around for them the first >> time. Social media should be additive NOT substitutive. YMMV...and as I >> stated before, that is why these platforms exist. >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: nafex [mailto:nafex-bounces at lists.ibiblio.org] On Behalf Of >> Deannie Hughes >> Sent: Monday, September 22, 2014 9:24 PM >> To: Jwlehman at aol.com; nafex mailing list at ibiblio >> Subject: Re: [nafex] NAFEX on Facebook >> >> Ladies and Gentlemen, >> This conversation is one of the symtoms of a dying NAFEX. The refusal to >> change with the time and modes of communication means that no new people >> are coming into the fold. Young people have already moved beyond Facebook >> to newer platforms. >> Facebook is there for light conversation. Pictures of your latest >> whatever, keeping in touch. Ibiblio can be a format for more in depth >> discussion. >> Facebook can be an outreach tool to attract new people into the >> organization. Use it to make NAFEX look cool and fun and maybe it can grow >> a new crop of fruit lovers >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: "Jwlehman--- via nafex" >> To: >> Sent: Monday, September 22, 2014 8:02 PM >> Subject: Re: [nafex] NAFEX on Facebook >> >> >> Every day I get several messages where someone has posted a picture, I >>> could spend all day looking at pictures. The Indiana Nut & Fruit >>> Growers has a FB page. When someone posts a question one must sign on >>> to answer, then fight their commercials. Much simpler and faster to >>> reply to questions on this net, ibiblio. >>> FB is OK for people with lots of time on their hands and don't mind >>> commercials, but not my cup of tea. >>> >>> Jerry Lehman >>> >>> >>> >>> In a message dated 9/22/2014 11:46:55 A.M. Eastern Daylight Time, >>> lfljvenaura at gmail.com writes: >>> >>> On Mon, Sep 22, 2014 at 11:32 AM, mIEKAL aND >>> wrote: >>> >>> My reason for mentioning this is that there are things that can be >>>> done >>>> >>> to >>> >>>> integrate. In the very least, I or others that are on both can post >>>> >>> things >>> >>>> back to this list. Since the Facebook group is public, the links of >>>> people's posts are viewable on the web, even if you are not a member. >>>> >>>> For instance I just posted a hopped apple mead recipe I just made. >>>> You should be able to click on this link and see the pictures and >>>> the >>>> >>> recipe. >>> >>>> >>>> >>>> https://www.facebook.com/groups/21070015101/permalink/101526855689251 >>>> 02/ >>>> >>>> ~mIEKAL >>>> >>> >>> >>> Thanks for pointing that out. I did not know that FB offered public >>> viewing of pages configured for that level of access. >>> >>> I hope others with FB accounts will crosspost Nafex FB page posts, >>> comments, videos and images freely to this forum. >>> >>> >>> >>> -- >>> Lawrence F. London >>> lfljvenaura at gmail.com >>> http://www.avantgeared.com >>> https://plus.google.com/+Avantgeared >>> Skype: lawrence.f.london >>> __________________ >>> nafex mailing list >>> nafex at lists.ibiblio.org >>> subscribe/unsubscribe|user config|list info|make a donation toward >>> list >>> maintenance: >>> http://lists.ibiblio.org/mailman/listinfo/nafex >>> message archives >>> http://lists.ibiblio.org/pipermail/nafex >>> Google message archive search: >>> site: lists.ibiblio.org/pipermail/nafex [searchstring] nafex list >>> mirror sites: >>> http://groups.google.com/group/nafexlist >>> https://sites.google.com/site/nafexmailinglist >>> Avant Geared http://www.avantgeared.com >>> >>> __________________ >>> nafex mailing list >>> nafex at lists.ibiblio.org >>> subscribe/unsubscribe|user config|list info|make a donation toward >>> list >>> maintenance: >>> http://lists.ibiblio.org/mailman/listinfo/nafex >>> message archives >>> http://lists.ibiblio.org/pipermail/nafex >>> Google message archive search: >>> site: lists.ibiblio.org/pipermail/nafex [searchstring] nafex list >>> mirror sites: >>> http://groups.google.com/group/nafexlist >>> https://sites.google.com/site/nafexmailinglist >>> Avant Geared http://www.avantgeared.com >>> >> >> >> --- >> This email is free from viruses and malware because avast! Antivirus >> protection is active. >> http://www.avast.com >> >> __________________ >> nafex mailing list >> nafex at lists.ibiblio.org >> subscribe/unsubscribe|user config|list info|make a donation toward list >> maintenance: >> http://lists.ibiblio.org/mailman/listinfo/nafex >> message archives >> http://lists.ibiblio.org/pipermail/nafex >> Google message archive search: >> site: lists.ibiblio.org/pipermail/nafex [searchstring] nafex list mirror >> sites: >> http://groups.google.com/group/nafexlist >> https://sites.google.com/site/nafexmailinglist >> Avant Geared http://www.avantgeared.com >> __________________ >> nafex mailing list >> nafex at lists.ibiblio.org >> Northamerican Allied Fruit Experimenters >> subscribe/unsubscribe|user config|list info|make a donation toward list >> maintenance: >> http://lists.ibiblio.org/mailman/listinfo/nafex >> message archives >> http://lists.ibiblio.org/pipermail/nafex >> Google message archive search: >> site: lists.ibiblio.org/pipermail/nafex [searchstring] >> nafex list mirror sites: >> http://groups.google.com/group/nafexlist >> https://sites.google.com/site/nafexmailinglist >> Avant Geared http://www.avantgeared.com >> > > > --- > This email is free from viruses and malware because avast! Antivirus > protection is active. > http://www.avast.com > > __________________ > nafex mailing list > nafex at lists.ibiblio.org > Northamerican Allied Fruit Experimenters > subscribe/unsubscribe|user config|list info|make a donation toward list > maintenance: > http://lists.ibiblio.org/mailman/listinfo/nafex > message archives > http://lists.ibiblio.org/pipermail/nafex > Google message archive search: > site: lists.ibiblio.org/pipermail/nafex [searchstring] > nafex list mirror sites: > http://groups.google.com/group/nafexlist > https://sites.google.com/site/nafexmailinglist > Avant Geared http://www.avantgeared.com > From hello at protocol6.com Tue Sep 23 16:50:33 2014 From: hello at protocol6.com (Andre Pierre) Date: Tue, 23 Sep 2014 16:50:33 -0400 Subject: [nafex] NAFEX on Facebook In-Reply-To: References: <54209FE6.8070100@att.net> <99613F4A-F937-4D85-A88C-B42044236A98@ginda.us> Message-ID: <20140923205033.GA24300@arcanum.localdomain.local> Hi, I'm a very new member of NAFEX (a few months only) and am very happy that this listserv exists together with the web forum and the Pomona PDFs. When I'm not growing fruit in my backyard, I work as a Systems Administrator, and as such have to be at least somewhat receptive to new technologies. Everywhere I go I see organizations wringing their hands about whether to diversify beyond their existing websites and forums, and embrace social media channels, and in the end they almost always do. Usually the main reason for this is the fact that social media sites have huge memberships, and nobody in the organization (leadership) wants to be responsible for "turning their back" on such a large number of potential customers/friends/contributors. Also, the peer-pressure to join is tremendous from every direction, and if you resist you often get branded as being "behind the times", old, or not tech-savvy. Who wants that. Finally, the organization may already have a presence on Facebook (or other social media site) thanks to proactive individuals who personally like the social platform in question. So the point of "officially" publishing content via Social Media is often moot, and folks then feel that one might as well go along with it. To me such reasons always seem wrong-headed, however.. Sites like Facebook and Google are not *just* convenient tools. They are big corporations that often (usually?) have questionable patterns of behavior. To use them, and to actively encourage others to use them, is to endorse such behaviors, or at best to turn a blind eye to them. For Facebook the list is pretty extensive and in my view damning: https://stallman.org/facebook.html. Of course every individual can choose for themselves, but organizations (like NAFEX) which have diverse memberships should in my opinion endorse only those technologies and systems that don't require entanglements with badly behaved third-parties. Thus, for the above reasons, if there is NAFEX content on Facebook and Google I for one will be happy to do without it. Best regards, :-) Andre Pierre From qazingulaza at gmail.com Tue Sep 23 17:08:11 2014 From: qazingulaza at gmail.com (mIEKAL aND) Date: Tue, 23 Sep 2014 16:08:11 -0500 Subject: [nafex] NAFEX on Facebook In-Reply-To: <20140923205033.GA24300@arcanum.localdomain.local> References: <54209FE6.8070100@att.net> <99613F4A-F937-4D85-A88C-B42044236A98@ginda.us> <20140923205033.GA24300@arcanum.localdomain.local> Message-ID: Andre, welcome to the list and interesting perspective. Hopefully you wrote that on a linux box. Just so you understand, this list isn't an official function of NAFEX and it's my understanding that the Facebook group is started and adminned by NAFEX members. And for the record I've been a part of this list since day one and have been a NAFEX member whenever I can afford to pay the dues. I think I first joined in 91. ~mIEKAL On Sep 23, 2014, at 3:50 PM, Andre Pierre wrote: > Hi, > > I'm a very new member of NAFEX (a few months only) and am very happy that this listserv exists together with the web forum and the Pomona PDFs. > > When I'm not growing fruit in my backyard, I work as a Systems Administrator, and as such have to be at least somewhat receptive to new technologies. > > Everywhere I go I see organizations wringing their hands about whether to diversify beyond their existing websites and forums, and embrace social media channels, and in the end they almost always do. > > Usually the main reason for this is the fact that social media sites have huge memberships, and nobody in the organization (leadership) wants to be responsible for "turning their back" on such a large number of potential customers/friends/contributors. Also, the peer-pressure to join is tremendous from every direction, and if you resist you often get branded as being "behind the times", old, or not tech-savvy. Who wants that. > Finally, the organization may already have a presence on Facebook (or other social media site) thanks to proactive individuals who personally like the social platform in question. > So the point of "officially" publishing content via Social Media is often moot, and folks then feel that one might as well go along with it. > > > To me such reasons always seem wrong-headed, however.. > Sites like Facebook and Google are not *just* convenient tools. They are big corporations that often (usually?) have questionable patterns of behavior. > To use them, and to actively encourage others to use them, is to endorse such behaviors, or at best to turn a blind eye to them. > > For Facebook the list is pretty extensive and in my view damning: https://stallman.org/facebook.html. > > Of course every individual can choose for themselves, but organizations (like NAFEX) which have diverse memberships should in my opinion endorse only those technologies and systems that don't require entanglements with badly behaved third-parties. > > > Thus, for the above reasons, if there is NAFEX content on Facebook and Google I for one will be happy to do without it. > > Best regards, > > :-) > > Andre Pierre > > > __________________ > nafex mailing list > nafex at lists.ibiblio.org > Northamerican Allied Fruit Experimenters > subscribe/unsubscribe|user config|list info|make a donation toward list maintenance: > http://lists.ibiblio.org/mailman/listinfo/nafex > message archives > http://lists.ibiblio.org/pipermail/nafex > Google message archive search: > site: lists.ibiblio.org/pipermail/nafex [searchstring] > nafex list mirror sites: > http://groups.google.com/group/nafexlist > https://sites.google.com/site/nafexmailinglist > Avant Geared http://www.avantgeared.com From lfljvenaura at gmail.com Tue Sep 23 17:18:34 2014 From: lfljvenaura at gmail.com (Lawrence London) Date: Tue, 23 Sep 2014 17:18:34 -0400 Subject: [nafex] NAFEX on Facebook In-Reply-To: References: <948CD2C06176413D9B5CC947E420DAC7@farmerdavePC> <6CA30FF17315EB42A0235E62A0679F6B0108E3F8ED@SERVER1.eco.local> <848BEF6E4F5A49D590A7A566CAAE84D9@farmerdavePC> Message-ID: On Tue, Sep 23, 2014 at 2:28 PM, Louis Pittman wrote: > David/Deanie, > I've been a member of NAFEX, and a user of the listserve, for nearly 20 > years. > There has been more 'traffic' in years past than in the most recent year or > two. > Many lists have had that happen to them, biodynamics, sanet, my market farming, seed keeping and permaculture lists and this one. Why: mostly the social media and lax standards on what constitutes worthwhile discussion It would be nice if we could restore that traffic pattern in this list. Years ago it was amazing with value beyond price, still is of course. > I've come to 'know' a lot of folks across the country - and the world, for > that matter - through participation and reading on this listserve. > I can probably count on one hand the number of list participants whom I've > actually met, face-to-face - but that doesn't preclude me from calling them > my friends, and I don't hesitate to ask for or offer to share information, > plant materials, etc. It's been a very gratifying experience over the > many years, and I have techniques and plants that would have otherwise been > unknown to, or unavailable to me. > > Yes, I'm on FB, and see some of the FB posts - and have responded to a few; > but the NAFEX email discussion list is still my 'go-to'... Both platforms > have their place/use, but for me, the listserve is more effective. > > Lucky Pittman > Hopkinsville, KY > -- Lawrence F. London lfljvenaura at gmail.com http://www.avantgeared.com https://plus.google.com/+Avantgeared Skype: lawrence.f.london From Jwlehman at aol.com Tue Sep 23 20:04:27 2014 From: Jwlehman at aol.com (Jwlehman at aol.com) Date: Tue, 23 Sep 2014 20:04:27 -0400 Subject: [nafex] NAFEX on Facebook Message-ID: <11340.5ee20e05.4153648b@aol.com> In a message dated 9/23/2014 2:07:21 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time, davidndeannie at nctc.com writes: I enjoyed the paper version of Pomona and understand it is expensive to produce and mail thus it's demise. So, what is there for me or anyone else to want to join? Pomona hasn't been demised. Just the paper issue and you can have that by printing with your printer. There will still be 4 issues a year. From Jwlehman at aol.com Tue Sep 23 20:15:04 2014 From: Jwlehman at aol.com (Jwlehman at aol.com) Date: Tue, 23 Sep 2014 20:15:04 -0400 Subject: [nafex] Change in the name of this list: Northamerican Allied Fruit Exper... Message-ID: <11738.fc1f9aa.41536708@aol.com> In a message dated 9/23/2014 1:23:50 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time, lfljvenaura at gmail.com writes: Would Northamerican Allied Fruit Enthusiasts be better? I believe that is more fitting to our membership. There are some experimenters and breeders, but the majority are enthusiastic growers. From organic87 at frontiernet.net Tue Sep 23 20:16:24 2014 From: organic87 at frontiernet.net (Road's End Farm) Date: Tue, 23 Sep 2014 20:16:24 -0400 Subject: [nafex] NAFEX on Facebook In-Reply-To: <11340.5ee20e05.4153648b@aol.com> References: <11340.5ee20e05.4153648b@aol.com> Message-ID: <169C2207-5F60-4A17-A80F-5A957FCE889A@frontiernet.net> Is it possible to subscribe to Pomona without joining the Facebook group? -- Rivka; Finger Lakes NY, Zone 6A now I think Fresh-market organic produce, small scale On Sep 23, 2014, at 8:04 PM, Jwlehman--- via nafex wrote: > > In a message dated 9/23/2014 2:07:21 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time, > davidndeannie at nctc.com writes: > > I enjoyed the paper version of Pomona and understand it is expensive to > produce and mail thus it's demise. So, what is there for me or anyone else > to want to join? > Pomona hasn't been demised. Just the paper issue and you can have that by > printing with your printer. There will still be 4 issues a year. > > From nave1 at comcast.net Tue Sep 23 20:19:13 2014 From: nave1 at comcast.net (Dan Nave) Date: Tue, 23 Sep 2014 19:19:13 -0500 Subject: [nafex] looking for a hardiness listing of peach rootstock In-Reply-To: <74BE0A22-C197-486E-BA6E-75F88BA8686D@gmail.com> References: <74BE0A22-C197-486E-BA6E-75F88BA8686D@gmail.com> Message-ID: <54220E01.70906@comcast.net> I believe Krymsk1 is not compatible with peach. Dan On 9/23/2014 7:57 AM, mIEKAL aND wrote: > I'm beginning to think that part of the reason I lost almost 50 grafted peach trees last winter has as much to do with rootstock hardiness and the cultivars themselves. I'm wondering if anyone knows of a hardiness listing of peach rootstocks? In particular Nemaguard, Lovell, St Julian A, Krymsk 1, Mariana 2624 and any other so-called hardy peach stocks. > > Several places are listing Lovell as a zone 7 rootstock, something I did not realize. > > ~mIEKAL > > __________________ > nafex mailing list > nafex at lists.ibiblio.org > subscribe/unsubscribe|user config|list info|make a donation toward list maintenance: > http://lists.ibiblio.org/mailman/listinfo/nafex > message archives > http://lists.ibiblio.org/pipermail/nafex > Google message archive search: > site: lists.ibiblio.org/pipermail/nafex [searchstring] > nafex list mirror sites: > http://groups.google.com/group/nafexlist > https://sites.google.com/site/nafexmailinglist > Avant Geared http://www.avantgeared.com > --- This email is free from viruses and malware because avast! Antivirus protection is active. http://www.avast.com From sherwindu at att.net Tue Sep 23 20:32:59 2014 From: sherwindu at att.net (sherwin) Date: Tue, 23 Sep 2014 19:32:59 -0500 Subject: [nafex] NAFEX on Facebook In-Reply-To: <20140923205033.GA24300@arcanum.localdomain.local> References: <54209FE6.8070100@att.net> <99613F4A-F937-4D85-A88C-B42044236A98@ginda.us> <20140923205033.GA24300@arcanum.localdomain.local> Message-ID: <5422113B.8000705@att.net> On 9/23/2014 3:50 PM, Andre Pierre wrote: > Hi, > > I'm a very new member of NAFEX (a few months only) and am very happy that this listserv exists together with the web forum and the Pomona PDFs. > > When I'm not growing fruit in my backyard, I work as a Systems Administrator, and as such have to be at least somewhat receptive to new technologies. > > Everywhere I go I see organizations wringing their hands about whether to diversify beyond their existing websites and forums, and embrace social media channels, and in the end they almost always do. > > Usually the main reason for this is the fact that social media sites have huge memberships, and nobody in the organization (leadership) wants to be responsible for "turning their back" on such a large number of potential customers/friends/contributors. Also, the peer-pressure to join is tremendous from every direction, and if you resist you often get branded as being "behind the times", old, or not tech-savvy. Who wants that. > Finally, the organization may already have a presence on Facebook (or other social media site) thanks to proactive individuals who personally like the social platform in question. I concur with Andre with the following: There is a price to pay to take in all these facebooker's. Some of them have no knowledge of growing fruit and ask a lot of stupid questions. I have always admired the level of expertise on the Ibiblio Nafex forum and have tried to emulate this high standard as administrator of the Midfex Ibiblio forum. I have noticed that most chat sites like facebook tend to downgrade the quality of discussion, with people going off on tangents not even related to the prime identity of the particular forum. Although membership in Nafex is not a prerequisite, my impression is that most of the participants in the Ibiblio forum do belong to it. In the Midfex forum, our club has decided to only allow people to participate if they are members of Midfex. There are questions of security and pertinence of postings from people outside our growing area. I would not like to see a bunch of people from facebook migrate over to the Ibiblio Nafex forum, which I consider a better site than the 'official' Nafex site. I belong to Nafex, but I seldom go over to the site to check the discussions there. The same people that clambered for a web based forum will probably go for a Facebook chat line, as well. These 'progressive' minded people can do more damage for Nafex than any possible loss of membership. Sherwin Dubren > So the point of "officially" publishing content via Social Media is often moot, and folks then feel that one might as well go along with it. > > > To me such reasons always seem wrong-headed, however.. > Sites like Facebook and Google are not *just* convenient tools. They are big corporations that often (usually?) have questionable patterns of behavior. > To use them, and to actively encourage others to use them, is to endorse such behaviors, or at best to turn a blind eye to them. > > For Facebook the list is pretty extensive and in my view damning: https://stallman.org/facebook.html. > > Of course every individual can choose for themselves, but organizations (like NAFEX) which have diverse memberships should in my opinion endorse only those technologies and systems that don't require entanglements with badly behaved third-parties. > > > Thus, for the above reasons, if there is NAFEX content on Facebook and Google I for one will be happy to do without it. > > Best regards, > > :-) > > Andre Pierre > > > __________________ > nafex mailing list > nafex at lists.ibiblio.org > Northamerican Allied Fruit Experimenters > subscribe/unsubscribe|user config|list info|make a donation toward list maintenance: > http://lists.ibiblio.org/mailman/listinfo/nafex > message archives > http://lists.ibiblio.org/pipermail/nafex > Google message archive search: > site: lists.ibiblio.org/pipermail/nafex [searchstring] > nafex list mirror sites: > http://groups.google.com/group/nafexlist > https://sites.google.com/site/nafexmailinglist > Avant Geared http://www.avantgeared.com > From ehilborn at mebtel.net Tue Sep 23 21:24:01 2014 From: ehilborn at mebtel.net (Elizabeth Hilborn) Date: Tue, 23 Sep 2014 21:24:01 -0400 Subject: [nafex] NAFEX on Facebook, now value beyond price In-Reply-To: References: <948CD2C06176413D9B5CC947E420DAC7@farmerdavePC><6CA30FF17315EB42A0235E62A0679F6B0108E3F8ED@SERVER1.eco.local><848BEF6E4F5A49D590A7A566CAAE84D9@farmerdavePC> Message-ID: <54221D31.2040609@mebtel.net> Re: "Years ago it was amazing with value beyond price, still is of course." Yes, indeed. I became a member and started frequenting the list in the early 2000s. I was early in the process of establishing my third site of fruit plantings. The knowledge and advice that I have obtained from participants of the list have allowed me to gain knowledge and skills at a much higher rate than just reference material, word of mouth and trial and error would have. Having such a productive orchard has given me great pleasure and improved my quality of life. NAFEX is my community, one that I treasure greatly. Long live NAFEX! Betsy Hilborn On 9/23/2014 5:18 PM, Lawrence London wrote: > On Tue, Sep 23, 2014 at 2:28 PM, Louis Pittman > wrote: > >> David/Deanie, >> I've been a member of NAFEX, and a user of the listserve, for nearly 20 >> years. >> There has been more 'traffic' in years past than in the most recent year or >> two. >> > Many lists have had that happen to them, biodynamics, sanet, my market > farming, seed keeping and permaculture lists > and this one. Why: mostly the social media and lax standards on what > constitutes worthwhile discussion > > It would be nice if we could restore that traffic pattern in this list. > Years ago it was amazing with value beyond price, > still is of course. > > >> I've come to 'know' a lot of folks across the country - and the world, for >> that matter - through participation and reading on this listserve. >> I can probably count on one hand the number of list participants whom I've >> actually met, face-to-face - but that doesn't preclude me from calling them >> my friends, and I don't hesitate to ask for or offer to share information, >> plant materials, etc. It's been a very gratifying experience over the >> many years, and I have techniques and plants that would have otherwise been >> unknown to, or unavailable to me. >> >> Yes, I'm on FB, and see some of the FB posts - and have responded to a few; >> but the NAFEX email discussion list is still my 'go-to'... Both platforms >> have their place/use, but for me, the listserve is more effective. >> >> Lucky Pittman >> Hopkinsville, KY >> > From lfljvenaura at gmail.com Tue Sep 23 21:50:24 2014 From: lfljvenaura at gmail.com (Lawrence London) Date: Tue, 23 Sep 2014 21:50:24 -0400 Subject: [nafex] Change in the name of this list: Northamerican Allied Fruit Exper... In-Reply-To: <11738.fc1f9aa.41536708@aol.com> References: <11738.fc1f9aa.41536708@aol.com> Message-ID: Thanks for the feedback. I was going to use your suggestion when I realized that it is a little more coherent to attach some meaning to the x in nafex, which I can not change without a HUGE amount of trouble for everyone so I guess I'll have to stick with Experimenters; at least there are plenty of amateur ones of those. Thanks again, Jerry. Lawrence On Tue, Sep 23, 2014 at 8:15 PM, Jwlehman--- via nafex < nafex at lists.ibiblio.org> wrote: > > > In a message dated 9/23/2014 1:23:50 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time, > lfljvenaura at gmail.com writes: > > Would Northamerican Allied Fruit Enthusiasts be better? > I believe that is more fitting to our membership. There are some > experimenters and breeders, but the majority are enthusiastic growers. > > __________________ > nafex mailing list > nafex at lists.ibiblio.org > Northamerican Allied Fruit Experimenters > subscribe/unsubscribe|user config|list info|make a donation toward list > maintenance: > http://lists.ibiblio.org/mailman/listinfo/nafex > message archives > http://lists.ibiblio.org/pipermail/nafex > Google message archive search: > site: lists.ibiblio.org/pipermail/nafex [searchstring] > nafex list mirror sites: > http://groups.google.com/group/nafexlist > https://sites.google.com/site/nafexmailinglist > Avant Geared http://www.avantgeared.com > -- Lawrence F. London lfljvenaura at gmail.com http://www.avantgeared.com https://plus.google.com/+Avantgeared Skype: lawrence.f.london From qazingulaza at gmail.com Wed Sep 24 08:04:47 2014 From: qazingulaza at gmail.com (mIEKAL aND) Date: Wed, 24 Sep 2014 07:04:47 -0500 Subject: [nafex] NAFEX on Facebook In-Reply-To: <169C2207-5F60-4A17-A80F-5A957FCE889A@frontiernet.net> References: <11340.5ee20e05.4153648b@aol.com> <169C2207-5F60-4A17-A80F-5A957FCE889A@frontiernet.net> Message-ID: Rivka, as far as I know getting Pomona which at this point is a yearly print issue and 3 quarterly pdfs is based on joining NAFEX the group and has no bearing on the Facebook group. ~mIEKAL On Sep 23, 2014, at 7:16 PM, Road's End Farm wrote: > Is it possible to subscribe to Pomona without joining the Facebook group? > > > > -- Rivka; Finger Lakes NY, Zone 6A now I think > Fresh-market organic produce, small scale > > > On Sep 23, 2014, at 8:04 PM, Jwlehman--- via nafex wrote: > >> >> In a message dated 9/23/2014 2:07:21 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time, >> davidndeannie at nctc.com writes: >> >> I enjoyed the paper version of Pomona and understand it is expensive to >> produce and mail thus it's demise. So, what is there for me or anyone else >> to want to join? >> Pomona hasn't been demised. Just the paper issue and you can have that by >> printing with your printer. There will still be 4 issues a year. >> >> > > > > > > __________________ > nafex mailing list > nafex at lists.ibiblio.org > Northamerican Allied Fruit Experimenters > subscribe/unsubscribe|user config|list info|make a donation toward list maintenance: > http://lists.ibiblio.org/mailman/listinfo/nafex > message archives > http://lists.ibiblio.org/pipermail/nafex > Google message archive search: > site: lists.ibiblio.org/pipermail/nafex [searchstring] > nafex list mirror sites: > http://groups.google.com/group/nafexlist > https://sites.google.com/site/nafexmailinglist > Avant Geared http://www.avantgeared.com From qazingulaza at gmail.com Wed Sep 24 08:14:00 2014 From: qazingulaza at gmail.com (mIEKAL aND) Date: Wed, 24 Sep 2014 07:14:00 -0500 Subject: [nafex] looking for a hardiness listing of peach rootstock In-Reply-To: <54220E01.70906@comcast.net> References: <74BE0A22-C197-486E-BA6E-75F88BA8686D@gmail.com> <54220E01.70906@comcast.net> Message-ID: Interesting Dan, I haven't used it personally, but it is listed as hardy peach rootstock on several sites I pulled up yesterday. Is it a plum? ~mIEKAL On Sep 23, 2014, at 7:19 PM, Dan Nave wrote: > I believe Krymsk1 is not compatible with peach. > > Dan From qazingulaza at gmail.com Wed Sep 24 08:23:17 2014 From: qazingulaza at gmail.com (mIEKAL aND) Date: Wed, 24 Sep 2014 07:23:17 -0500 Subject: [nafex] NAFEX on Facebook In-Reply-To: <5422113B.8000705@att.net> References: <54209FE6.8070100@att.net> <99613F4A-F937-4D85-A88C-B42044236A98@ginda.us> <20140923205033.GA24300@arcanum.localdomain.local> <5422113B.8000705@att.net> Message-ID: Sherwin, you crack me up. Describing young folks interested in permaculture, horticulture, botany, fruit exploration, food production, organics, climate change, ecology, community building, plant breeding, networking as Facebookers because they happen to be on a Facebook group is nothing short of phobia. As for off topic and digressions, you apparently haven't been on this list all that long because along with all the amazing discussions that have taken place here, those are inevitable byproducts of any forum, chat, group, bulletin board. People are people. Let a 1000 flowers bloom. ~mIEKAL On Sep 23, 2014, at 7:32 PM, sherwin wrote: > There is a price to pay to take in all these facebooker's. Some of them have no knowledge of growing fruit and ask a > lot of stupid questions. I have always admired the level of expertise on the Ibiblio Nafex forum and have tried to > emulate this high standard as administrator of the Midfex Ibiblio forum. I have noticed that most chat sites like > facebook tend to downgrade the quality of discussion, with people going off on tangents not even related to the > prime identity of the particular forum. From dwoodard at becon.org Wed Sep 24 08:48:29 2014 From: dwoodard at becon.org (dwoodard at becon.org) Date: Wed, 24 Sep 2014 08:48:29 -0400 Subject: [nafex] looking for a hardiness listing of peach rootstock In-Reply-To: <74BE0A22-C197-486E-BA6E-75F88BA8686D@gmail.com> References: <74BE0A22-C197-486E-BA6E-75F88BA8686D@gmail.com> Message-ID: <88514f9c9d868411b66dac525c5cdf36@becon.org> In the Niagara peninsula (I think USDA zone 6), Bailey seedlings are preferred. In the Windsor area of Southern Ontario, there was some interest in the past in Siberian C. Tzim Pee Tao or Chui Lum Tao were I understand eventually preferred there from trial results, but I'm not sure what the growers have settled on. I have the impression that the advantage over Bailey for Sw Ontario conditions was not great. In British Columbia (Okanagan valley) Siberian C seems to be approved, but soil treatment for nematodes is recommended. An article from 1950 based I think mostly on U. Minnesota work, suggested that St. Julien A was about USDA zone 5 hardiness. I have read of prairie-hardy Western sand cherry Prunus besseyi being used as a rootstock for peach on well drained soil for short periods, and sometimes P. tomentosa, but I am not sure about long term compatibility and anchorage. Snow cover and root insulation will make a difference. Krymsk is just north of the western end of the Caucasus mountains, a little SW of Krasnodar which from its wikipedia article has a record low of about minus 27 degrees Fahrenheit. Krymsk1 is a cross between Prunus tomentosa and P. cerasifera (myrobalan). See http://www.janssen-rootstocks.nl Doug Woodard St. Catharines, Ontario, Canada On Tue, 23 Sep 2014 07:57:51 -0500, mIEKAL aND wrote: > I'm beginning to think that part of the reason I lost almost 50 > grafted peach trees last winter has as much to do with rootstock > hardiness and the cultivars themselves. I'm wondering if anyone > knows > of a hardiness listing of peach rootstocks? In particular Nemaguard, > Lovell, St Julian A, Krymsk 1, Mariana 2624 and any other so-called > hardy peach stocks. > > Several places are listing Lovell as a zone 7 rootstock, something I > did not realize. > > ~mIEKAL From Jwlehman at aol.com Wed Sep 24 09:16:08 2014 From: Jwlehman at aol.com (Jwlehman at aol.com) Date: Wed, 24 Sep 2014 09:16:08 -0400 Subject: [nafex] Wine equipment for sale Message-ID: <1cbe8.ecf4164.41541e17@aol.com> Attn: wine makers on this list. The below link is a California company with used commercial wine making equipment. _info at machineryandequipment.com_ (mailto:info at machineryandequipment.com) Jerry From qazingulaza at gmail.com Wed Sep 24 09:26:53 2014 From: qazingulaza at gmail.com (mIEKAL aND) Date: Wed, 24 Sep 2014 08:26:53 -0500 Subject: [nafex] Wine equipment for sale In-Reply-To: <1cbe8.ecf4164.41541e17@aol.com> References: <1cbe8.ecf4164.41541e17@aol.com> Message-ID: Jerry, the link didn't come thru. On Wed, Sep 24, 2014 at 8:16 AM, Jwlehman--- via nafex wrote: > Attn: wine makers on this list. > > The below link is a California company with used commercial wine making > equipment. > > _info at machineryandequipment.com_ (mailto:info at machineryandequipment.com) > > Jerry > __________________ > nafex mailing list > nafex at lists.ibiblio.org > Northamerican Allied Fruit Experimenters > subscribe/unsubscribe|user config|list info|make a donation toward list maintenance: > http://lists.ibiblio.org/mailman/listinfo/nafex > message archives > http://lists.ibiblio.org/pipermail/nafex > Google message archive search: > site: lists.ibiblio.org/pipermail/nafex [searchstring] > nafex list mirror sites: > http://groups.google.com/group/nafexlist > https://sites.google.com/site/nafexmailinglist > Avant Geared http://www.avantgeared.com From jolyn at tctwest.net Wed Sep 24 09:25:41 2014 From: jolyn at tctwest.net (Jolyn) Date: Wed, 24 Sep 2014 07:25:41 -0600 Subject: [nafex] looking for a hardiness listing of peach rootstock In-Reply-To: <88514f9c9d868411b66dac525c5cdf36@becon.org> References: <74BE0A22-C197-486E-BA6E-75F88BA8686D@gmail.com> <88514f9c9d868411b66dac525c5cdf36@becon.org> Message-ID: <46B6343FFF714DB68CD9251C6A798740@JolynPC> Cummins Nursery sells peach on Krymsk 1. I have a 4 yr old Contender on K1 which has fruited as well as several plums and apricots on K1 here in Zone 4 Montana. Jolyn -----Original Message----- From: dwoodard at becon.org Sent: Wednesday, September 24, 2014 6:48 AM To: nafex at lists.ibiblio.org Subject: Re: [nafex] looking for a hardiness listing of peach rootstock In the Niagara peninsula (I think USDA zone 6), Bailey seedlings are preferred. In the Windsor area of Southern Ontario, there was some interest in the past in Siberian C. Tzim Pee Tao or Chui Lum Tao were I understand eventually preferred there from trial results, but I'm not sure what the growers have settled on. I have the impression that the advantage over Bailey for Sw Ontario conditions was not great. In British Columbia (Okanagan valley) Siberian C seems to be approved, but soil treatment for nematodes is recommended. An article from 1950 based I think mostly on U. Minnesota work, suggested that St. Julien A was about USDA zone 5 hardiness. I have read of prairie-hardy Western sand cherry Prunus besseyi being used as a rootstock for peach on well drained soil for short periods, and sometimes P. tomentosa, but I am not sure about long term compatibility and anchorage. Snow cover and root insulation will make a difference. Krymsk is just north of the western end of the Caucasus mountains, a little SW of Krasnodar which from its wikipedia article has a record low of about minus 27 degrees Fahrenheit. Krymsk1 is a cross between Prunus tomentosa and P. cerasifera (myrobalan). See http://www.janssen-rootstocks.nl Doug Woodard St. Catharines, Ontario, Canada On Tue, 23 Sep 2014 07:57:51 -0500, mIEKAL aND wrote: > I'm beginning to think that part of the reason I lost almost 50 > grafted peach trees last winter has as much to do with rootstock > hardiness and the cultivars themselves. I'm wondering if anyone knows > of a hardiness listing of peach rootstocks? In particular Nemaguard, > Lovell, St Julian A, Krymsk 1, Mariana 2624 and any other so-called > hardy peach stocks. > > Several places are listing Lovell as a zone 7 rootstock, something I > did not realize. > > ~mIEKAL __________________ nafex mailing list nafex at lists.ibiblio.org Northamerican Allied Fruit Experimenters subscribe/unsubscribe|user config|list info|make a donation toward list maintenance: http://lists.ibiblio.org/mailman/listinfo/nafex message archives http://lists.ibiblio.org/pipermail/nafex Google message archive search: site: lists.ibiblio.org/pipermail/nafex [searchstring] nafex list mirror sites: http://groups.google.com/group/nafexlist https://sites.google.com/site/nafexmailinglist Avant Geared http://www.avantgeared.com From list at ginda.us Wed Sep 24 09:34:21 2014 From: list at ginda.us (Ginda Fisher) Date: Wed, 24 Sep 2014 09:34:21 -0400 Subject: [nafex] looking for a hardiness listing of peach rootstock In-Reply-To: <88514f9c9d868411b66dac525c5cdf36@becon.org> References: <74BE0A22-C197-486E-BA6E-75F88BA8686D@gmail.com> <88514f9c9d868411b66dac525c5cdf36@becon.org> Message-ID: <6f8a5151-621d-4d7a-ad27-73f958e03e02@email.android.com> I've grown an apricot on St. Julian A for several years. I'm in zone 6, and have had some harsh-for-zone-6 years in that time. The tree has had no special protection. I've never had anything that looked like winter damage. Just one data point. -- Typed with Swype. Who knows what I meant to say? On September 24, 2014 8:48:29 AM EDT, dwoodard at becon.org wrote: > In the Niagara peninsula (I think USDA zone 6), Bailey seedlings are > preferred. > >In the Windsor area of Southern Ontario, there was some interest in the > > past in Siberian C. > Tzim Pee Tao or Chui Lum Tao were I understand eventually preferred >there from trial results, but I'm not sure what the growers have >settled >on. I have the impression that the advantage over Bailey for Sw Ontario > >conditions was not great. In British Columbia (Okanagan valley) >Siberian >C seems to be approved, but soil treatment for nematodes is >recommended. > > An article from 1950 based I think mostly on U. Minnesota work, > suggested that St. Julien A was about USDA zone 5 hardiness. > > I have read of prairie-hardy Western sand cherry Prunus besseyi being > used as a rootstock for peach on well drained soil for short periods, > and sometimes P. tomentosa, but I am not sure about long term > compatibility and anchorage. > > Snow cover and root insulation will make a difference. > > Krymsk is just north of the western end of the Caucasus mountains, a >little SW of Krasnodar which from its wikipedia article has a record >low > of about minus 27 degrees Fahrenheit. > > Krymsk1 is a cross between Prunus tomentosa and P. cerasifera > (myrobalan). See > http://www.janssen-rootstocks.nl > > Doug Woodard > St. Catharines, Ontario, Canada > > > >On Tue, 23 Sep 2014 07:57:51 -0500, mIEKAL aND > wrote: >> I'm beginning to think that part of the reason I lost almost 50 >> grafted peach trees last winter has as much to do with rootstock >> hardiness and the cultivars themselves. I'm wondering if anyone >> knows >> of a hardiness listing of peach rootstocks? In particular Nemaguard, >> Lovell, St Julian A, Krymsk 1, Mariana 2624 and any other so-called >> hardy peach stocks. >> >> Several places are listing Lovell as a zone 7 rootstock, something I >> did not realize. >> >> ~mIEKAL > >__________________ >nafex mailing list >nafex at lists.ibiblio.org >Northamerican Allied Fruit Experimenters >subscribe/unsubscribe|user config|list info|make a donation toward list >maintenance: >http://lists.ibiblio.org/mailman/listinfo/nafex >message archives >http://lists.ibiblio.org/pipermail/nafex >Google message archive search: >site: lists.ibiblio.org/pipermail/nafex [searchstring] >nafex list mirror sites: >http://groups.google.com/group/nafexlist >https://sites.google.com/site/nafexmailinglist >Avant Geared http://www.avantgeared.com From qazingulaza at gmail.com Wed Sep 24 09:45:40 2014 From: qazingulaza at gmail.com (mIEKAL aND) Date: Wed, 24 Sep 2014 08:45:40 -0500 Subject: [nafex] looking for a hardiness listing of peach rootstock In-Reply-To: <46B6343FFF714DB68CD9251C6A798740@JolynPC> References: <74BE0A22-C197-486E-BA6E-75F88BA8686D@gmail.com> <88514f9c9d868411b66dac525c5cdf36@becon.org> <46B6343FFF714DB68CD9251C6A798740@JolynPC> Message-ID: Jolyn, I always thought Montana was warmer than sw WI where I am. What kind of lows are you seeing? I had 2 Contenders make it thru last year's winter and two died to the ground. The place I got them from didn't know what rootstock they were on. ~mIEKAL On Wed, Sep 24, 2014 at 8:25 AM, Jolyn wrote: > Cummins Nursery sells peach on Krymsk 1. I have a 4 yr old Contender on K1 > which has fruited as well as several plums and apricots on K1 here in Zone 4 > Montana. > Jolyn > > -----Original Message----- From: dwoodard at becon.org > Sent: Wednesday, September 24, 2014 6:48 AM > To: nafex at lists.ibiblio.org > Subject: Re: [nafex] looking for a hardiness listing of peach rootstock > > > In the Niagara peninsula (I think USDA zone 6), Bailey seedlings are > preferred. > > In the Windsor area of Southern Ontario, there was some interest in the > past in Siberian C. > Tzim Pee Tao or Chui Lum Tao were I understand eventually preferred > there from trial results, but I'm not sure what the growers have settled > on. I have the impression that the advantage over Bailey for Sw Ontario > conditions was not great. In British Columbia (Okanagan valley) Siberian > C seems to be approved, but soil treatment for nematodes is recommended. > > An article from 1950 based I think mostly on U. Minnesota work, > suggested that St. Julien A was about USDA zone 5 hardiness. > > I have read of prairie-hardy Western sand cherry Prunus besseyi being > used as a rootstock for peach on well drained soil for short periods, > and sometimes P. tomentosa, but I am not sure about long term > compatibility and anchorage. > > Snow cover and root insulation will make a difference. > > Krymsk is just north of the western end of the Caucasus mountains, a > little SW of Krasnodar which from its wikipedia article has a record low > of about minus 27 degrees Fahrenheit. > > Krymsk1 is a cross between Prunus tomentosa and P. cerasifera > (myrobalan). See > http://www.janssen-rootstocks.nl > > Doug Woodard > St. Catharines, Ontario, Canada > > > > On Tue, 23 Sep 2014 07:57:51 -0500, mIEKAL aND > wrote: >> >> I'm beginning to think that part of the reason I lost almost 50 >> grafted peach trees last winter has as much to do with rootstock >> hardiness and the cultivars themselves. I'm wondering if anyone knows >> of a hardiness listing of peach rootstocks? In particular Nemaguard, >> Lovell, St Julian A, Krymsk 1, Mariana 2624 and any other so-called >> hardy peach stocks. >> >> Several places are listing Lovell as a zone 7 rootstock, something I >> did not realize. >> >> ~mIEKAL > > > __________________ > nafex mailing list > nafex at lists.ibiblio.org > Northamerican Allied Fruit Experimenters > subscribe/unsubscribe|user config|list info|make a donation toward list > maintenance: > http://lists.ibiblio.org/mailman/listinfo/nafex > message archives > http://lists.ibiblio.org/pipermail/nafex > Google message archive search: > site: lists.ibiblio.org/pipermail/nafex [searchstring] > nafex list mirror sites: > http://groups.google.com/group/nafexlist > https://sites.google.com/site/nafexmailinglist > Avant Geared http://www.avantgeared.com > __________________ > nafex mailing list > nafex at lists.ibiblio.org > Northamerican Allied Fruit Experimenters > subscribe/unsubscribe|user config|list info|make a donation toward list > maintenance: > http://lists.ibiblio.org/mailman/listinfo/nafex > message archives > http://lists.ibiblio.org/pipermail/nafex > Google message archive search: > site: lists.ibiblio.org/pipermail/nafex [searchstring] > nafex list mirror sites: > http://groups.google.com/group/nafexlist > https://sites.google.com/site/nafexmailinglist > Avant Geared http://www.avantgeared.com From jolyn at tctwest.net Wed Sep 24 10:05:53 2014 From: jolyn at tctwest.net (Jolyn) Date: Wed, 24 Sep 2014 08:05:53 -0600 Subject: [nafex] looking for a hardiness listing of peach rootstock In-Reply-To: References: <74BE0A22-C197-486E-BA6E-75F88BA8686D@gmail.com><88514f9c9d868411b66dac525c5cdf36@becon.org><46B6343FFF714DB68CD9251C6A798740@JolynPC> Message-ID: We normally see lows to -30 in my area and I have seen -42 during the 37 years I have lived in this area. My property is windy and unprotected. I don't believe it is the winter lows as much as the extreme temperature drops we sometimes get in early October. These drops seem to affect mostly trees that are young. Lovell, Bailey, St. Julien A & Mariana 2624 rootstocks have all survived when the grafted (usually young) tree on them has died. I do not presume to know the reason for this but it has only occurred the 2 years the temperature dropped so much the first week in October. We do have wildly fluctuating temperatures during the winter but I haven't experienced very many losses when that occurs. Jolyn -----Original Message----- From: mIEKAL aND Sent: Wednesday, September 24, 2014 7:45 AM To: mailing list at ibiblio - Northamerican Allied Fruit Experimenters Subject: Re: [nafex] looking for a hardiness listing of peach rootstock Jolyn, I always thought Montana was warmer than sw WI where I am. What kind of lows are you seeing? I had 2 Contenders make it thru last year's winter and two died to the ground. The place I got them from didn't know what rootstock they were on. ~mIEKAL On Wed, Sep 24, 2014 at 8:25 AM, Jolyn wrote: > Cummins Nursery sells peach on Krymsk 1. I have a 4 yr old Contender on > K1 > which has fruited as well as several plums and apricots on K1 here in Zone > 4 > Montana. > Jolyn > > -----Original Message----- From: dwoodard at becon.org > Sent: Wednesday, September 24, 2014 6:48 AM > To: nafex at lists.ibiblio.org > Subject: Re: [nafex] looking for a hardiness listing of peach rootstock > > > In the Niagara peninsula (I think USDA zone 6), Bailey seedlings are > preferred. > > In the Windsor area of Southern Ontario, there was some interest in the > past in Siberian C. > Tzim Pee Tao or Chui Lum Tao were I understand eventually preferred > there from trial results, but I'm not sure what the growers have settled > on. I have the impression that the advantage over Bailey for Sw Ontario > conditions was not great. In British Columbia (Okanagan valley) Siberian > C seems to be approved, but soil treatment for nematodes is recommended. > > An article from 1950 based I think mostly on U. Minnesota work, > suggested that St. Julien A was about USDA zone 5 hardiness. > > I have read of prairie-hardy Western sand cherry Prunus besseyi being > used as a rootstock for peach on well drained soil for short periods, > and sometimes P. tomentosa, but I am not sure about long term > compatibility and anchorage. > > Snow cover and root insulation will make a difference. > > Krymsk is just north of the western end of the Caucasus mountains, a > little SW of Krasnodar which from its wikipedia article has a record low > of about minus 27 degrees Fahrenheit. > > Krymsk1 is a cross between Prunus tomentosa and P. cerasifera > (myrobalan). See > http://www.janssen-rootstocks.nl > > Doug Woodard > St. Catharines, Ontario, Canada > > > > On Tue, 23 Sep 2014 07:57:51 -0500, mIEKAL aND > wrote: >> >> I'm beginning to think that part of the reason I lost almost 50 >> grafted peach trees last winter has as much to do with rootstock >> hardiness and the cultivars themselves. I'm wondering if anyone knows >> of a hardiness listing of peach rootstocks? In particular Nemaguard, >> Lovell, St Julian A, Krymsk 1, Mariana 2624 and any other so-called >> hardy peach stocks. >> >> Several places are listing Lovell as a zone 7 rootstock, something I >> did not realize. >> >> ~mIEKAL > > > __________________ > nafex mailing list > nafex at lists.ibiblio.org > Northamerican Allied Fruit Experimenters > subscribe/unsubscribe|user config|list info|make a donation toward list > maintenance: > http://lists.ibiblio.org/mailman/listinfo/nafex > message archives > http://lists.ibiblio.org/pipermail/nafex > Google message archive search: > site: lists.ibiblio.org/pipermail/nafex [searchstring] > nafex list mirror sites: > http://groups.google.com/group/nafexlist > https://sites.google.com/site/nafexmailinglist > Avant Geared http://www.avantgeared.com > __________________ > nafex mailing list > nafex at lists.ibiblio.org > Northamerican Allied Fruit Experimenters > subscribe/unsubscribe|user config|list info|make a donation toward list > maintenance: > http://lists.ibiblio.org/mailman/listinfo/nafex > message archives > http://lists.ibiblio.org/pipermail/nafex > Google message archive search: > site: lists.ibiblio.org/pipermail/nafex [searchstring] > nafex list mirror sites: > http://groups.google.com/group/nafexlist > https://sites.google.com/site/nafexmailinglist > Avant Geared http://www.avantgeared.com __________________ nafex mailing list nafex at lists.ibiblio.org Northamerican Allied Fruit Experimenters subscribe/unsubscribe|user config|list info|make a donation toward list maintenance: http://lists.ibiblio.org/mailman/listinfo/nafex message archives http://lists.ibiblio.org/pipermail/nafex Google message archive search: site: lists.ibiblio.org/pipermail/nafex [searchstring] nafex list mirror sites: http://groups.google.com/group/nafexlist https://sites.google.com/site/nafexmailinglist Avant Geared http://www.avantgeared.com From jolyn at tctwest.net Wed Sep 24 10:12:57 2014 From: jolyn at tctwest.net (Jolyn) Date: Wed, 24 Sep 2014 08:12:57 -0600 Subject: [nafex] looking for a hardiness listing of peach rootstock In-Reply-To: References: <74BE0A22-C197-486E-BA6E-75F88BA8686D@gmail.com><88514f9c9d868411b66dac525c5cdf36@becon.org><46B6343FFF714DB68CD9251C6A798740@JolynPC> Message-ID: <12CC308BADD24C39A998B4105399E7C4@JolynPC> mIEKAL, I should have mentioned that the 2013 fall & winter here was extremely harsh. Contender survived on Lovell & K1 while Reliance & PF24C died on both those rootstocks. I do have shallow soil as well as an inhospitable growing site. Peaches are not commonly grown in this area but they have fruited for me so I continue to plant them. Jolyn -----Original Message----- From: mIEKAL aND Sent: Wednesday, September 24, 2014 7:45 AM To: mailing list at ibiblio - Northamerican Allied Fruit Experimenters Subject: Re: [nafex] looking for a hardiness listing of peach rootstock Jolyn, I always thought Montana was warmer than sw WI where I am. What kind of lows are you seeing? I had 2 Contenders make it thru last year's winter and two died to the ground. The place I got them from didn't know what rootstock they were on. ~mIEKAL On Wed, Sep 24, 2014 at 8:25 AM, Jolyn wrote: > Cummins Nursery sells peach on Krymsk 1. I have a 4 yr old Contender on > K1 > which has fruited as well as several plums and apricots on K1 here in Zone > 4 > Montana. > Jolyn > > -----Original Message----- From: dwoodard at becon.org > Sent: Wednesday, September 24, 2014 6:48 AM > To: nafex at lists.ibiblio.org > Subject: Re: [nafex] looking for a hardiness listing of peach rootstock > > > In the Niagara peninsula (I think USDA zone 6), Bailey seedlings are > preferred. > > In the Windsor area of Southern Ontario, there was some interest in the > past in Siberian C. > Tzim Pee Tao or Chui Lum Tao were I understand eventually preferred > there from trial results, but I'm not sure what the growers have settled > on. I have the impression that the advantage over Bailey for Sw Ontario > conditions was not great. In British Columbia (Okanagan valley) Siberian > C seems to be approved, but soil treatment for nematodes is recommended. > > An article from 1950 based I think mostly on U. Minnesota work, > suggested that St. Julien A was about USDA zone 5 hardiness. > > I have read of prairie-hardy Western sand cherry Prunus besseyi being > used as a rootstock for peach on well drained soil for short periods, > and sometimes P. tomentosa, but I am not sure about long term > compatibility and anchorage. > > Snow cover and root insulation will make a difference. > > Krymsk is just north of the western end of the Caucasus mountains, a > little SW of Krasnodar which from its wikipedia article has a record low > of about minus 27 degrees Fahrenheit. > > Krymsk1 is a cross between Prunus tomentosa and P. cerasifera > (myrobalan). See > http://www.janssen-rootstocks.nl > > Doug Woodard > St. Catharines, Ontario, Canada > > > > On Tue, 23 Sep 2014 07:57:51 -0500, mIEKAL aND > wrote: >> >> I'm beginning to think that part of the reason I lost almost 50 >> grafted peach trees last winter has as much to do with rootstock >> hardiness and the cultivars themselves. I'm wondering if anyone knows >> of a hardiness listing of peach rootstocks? In particular Nemaguard, >> Lovell, St Julian A, Krymsk 1, Mariana 2624 and any other so-called >> hardy peach stocks. >> >> Several places are listing Lovell as a zone 7 rootstock, something I >> did not realize. >> >> ~mIEKAL > > > __________________ > nafex mailing list > nafex at lists.ibiblio.org > Northamerican Allied Fruit Experimenters > subscribe/unsubscribe|user config|list info|make a donation toward list > maintenance: > http://lists.ibiblio.org/mailman/listinfo/nafex > message archives > http://lists.ibiblio.org/pipermail/nafex > Google message archive search: > site: lists.ibiblio.org/pipermail/nafex [searchstring] > nafex list mirror sites: > http://groups.google.com/group/nafexlist > https://sites.google.com/site/nafexmailinglist > Avant Geared http://www.avantgeared.com > __________________ > nafex mailing list > nafex at lists.ibiblio.org > Northamerican Allied Fruit Experimenters > subscribe/unsubscribe|user config|list info|make a donation toward list > maintenance: > http://lists.ibiblio.org/mailman/listinfo/nafex > message archives > http://lists.ibiblio.org/pipermail/nafex > Google message archive search: > site: lists.ibiblio.org/pipermail/nafex [searchstring] > nafex list mirror sites: > http://groups.google.com/group/nafexlist > https://sites.google.com/site/nafexmailinglist > Avant Geared http://www.avantgeared.com __________________ nafex mailing list nafex at lists.ibiblio.org Northamerican Allied Fruit Experimenters subscribe/unsubscribe|user config|list info|make a donation toward list maintenance: http://lists.ibiblio.org/mailman/listinfo/nafex message archives http://lists.ibiblio.org/pipermail/nafex Google message archive search: site: lists.ibiblio.org/pipermail/nafex [searchstring] nafex list mirror sites: http://groups.google.com/group/nafexlist https://sites.google.com/site/nafexmailinglist Avant Geared http://www.avantgeared.com From sherwindu at att.net Wed Sep 24 10:18:10 2014 From: sherwindu at att.net (sherwin) Date: Wed, 24 Sep 2014 09:18:10 -0500 Subject: [nafex] NAFEX on Facebook In-Reply-To: References: <54209FE6.8070100@att.net> <99613F4A-F937-4D85-A88C-B42044236A98@ginda.us> <20140923205033.GA24300@arcanum.localdomain.local> <5422113B.8000705@att.net> Message-ID: <5422D2A2.6030404@att.net> On 9/24/2014 7:23 AM, mIEKAL aND wrote: > Sherwin, you crack me up. Describing young folks interested in permaculture, horticulture, botany, fruit exploration, food production, organics, climate change, ecology, community building, plant breeding, networking as Facebookers because they happen to be on a Facebook group is nothing short of phobia. Funny, I don't remember mentioning the age of these people. I think it afflicts people of all ages. Call it phobia, I say many people are tied to their computers and cell phones like an umbilical cord. I am not anti-computer, but with some people, this need for enormous communications is not normal. There is some interesting content on these facebook sites, but it is sometimes disguised among a bunch of chit chat and I personally don't want to bother searching for it. > As for off topic and digressions, you apparently haven't been on this list all that long because along with all the amazing discussions that have taken place here, those are inevitable byproducts of any forum, chat, group, bulletin board. People are people. Let a 1000 flowers bloom. Maybe, with a few exceptions, most of the interesting people on the Nafex forum are basically gardeners first and computer geeks last. They do not walk around their orchards with their cell phones glued to their heads. Their postings are strictly about raising fruit and not about daily trivia found on facebook sites. Sherwin > > ~mIEKAL > > > On Sep 23, 2014, at 7:32 PM, sherwin wrote: > >> There is a price to pay to take in all these facebooker's. Some of them have no knowledge of growing fruit and ask a >> lot of stupid questions. I have always admired the level of expertise on the Ibiblio Nafex forum and have tried to >> emulate this high standard as administrator of the Midfex Ibiblio forum. I have noticed that most chat sites like >> facebook tend to downgrade the quality of discussion, with people going off on tangents not even related to the >> prime identity of the particular forum. > __________________ > nafex mailing list > nafex at lists.ibiblio.org > Northamerican Allied Fruit Experimenters > subscribe/unsubscribe|user config|list info|make a donation toward list maintenance: > http://lists.ibiblio.org/mailman/listinfo/nafex > message archives > http://lists.ibiblio.org/pipermail/nafex > Google message archive search: > site: lists.ibiblio.org/pipermail/nafex [searchstring] > nafex list mirror sites: > http://groups.google.com/group/nafexlist > https://sites.google.com/site/nafexmailinglist > Avant Geared http://www.avantgeared.com > From tcelona at gmail.com Wed Sep 24 10:32:18 2014 From: tcelona at gmail.com (Tom Celona) Date: Wed, 24 Sep 2014 09:32:18 -0500 Subject: [nafex] NAFEX on Facebook In-Reply-To: <5422D2A2.6030404@att.net> References: <54209FE6.8070100@att.net> <99613F4A-F937-4D85-A88C-B42044236A98@ginda.us> <20140923205033.GA24300@arcanum.localdomain.local> <5422113B.8000705@att.net> <5422D2A2.6030404@att.net> Message-ID: I think you've got quite the wrong impression of the NAFEX facebook site. The quality of the content is high. As an example, here are the most recent topics of discussion, in order. 1. update from mulberry grafting experiments, with pictures 2. discussion of grape pest problems, with pictures 3. discussion and link to article about drought and how it relates to fruit growers. 4. discussion of the relative effects of age and sun exposure on the bearing of kaki persimmons. If anyone doesn't want to be involved with facebook, I get it. No big deal. But I don't think it benefits to suggest the content on the facebook NAFEX site is any lower than it is here. It's simply not true. On Wed, Sep 24, 2014 at 9:18 AM, sherwin wrote: > On 9/24/2014 7:23 AM, mIEKAL aND wrote: > >> Sherwin, you crack me up. Describing young folks interested in >> permaculture, horticulture, botany, fruit exploration, food production, >> organics, climate change, ecology, community building, plant breeding, >> networking as Facebookers because they happen to be on a Facebook group is >> nothing short of phobia. >> > Funny, I don't remember mentioning the age of these people. I think > it afflicts people of all ages. Call it phobia, I say many > people are tied to their computers and cell phones like an umbilical > cord. I am not anti-computer, but with some people, > this need for enormous communications is not normal. There is some > interesting content on these facebook sites, but > it is sometimes disguised among a bunch of chit chat and I personally > don't want to bother searching for it. > >> As for off topic and digressions, you apparently haven't been on this >> list all that long because along with all the amazing discussions that have >> taken place here, those are inevitable byproducts of any forum, chat, >> group, bulletin board. People are people. Let a 1000 flowers bloom. >> > > Maybe, with a few exceptions, most of the interesting people on the > Nafex forum are basically gardeners first and > computer geeks last. They do not walk around their orchards with > their cell phones glued to their heads. Their > postings are strictly about raising fruit and not about daily trivia > found on facebook sites. > > Sherwin > > >> ~mIEKAL >> >> >> On Sep 23, 2014, at 7:32 PM, sherwin wrote: >> >> There is a price to pay to take in all these facebooker's. Some of them >>> have no knowledge of growing fruit and ask a >>> lot of stupid questions. I have always admired the level of >>> expertise on the Ibiblio Nafex forum and have tried to >>> emulate this high standard as administrator of the Midfex Ibiblio >>> forum. I have noticed that most chat sites like >>> facebook tend to downgrade the quality of discussion, with people >>> going off on tangents not even related to the >>> prime identity of the particular forum. >>> >> __________________ >> nafex mailing list >> nafex at lists.ibiblio.org >> Northamerican Allied Fruit Experimenters >> subscribe/unsubscribe|user config|list info|make a donation toward list >> maintenance: >> http://lists.ibiblio.org/mailman/listinfo/nafex >> message archives >> http://lists.ibiblio.org/pipermail/nafex >> Google message archive search: >> site: lists.ibiblio.org/pipermail/nafex [searchstring] >> nafex list mirror sites: >> http://groups.google.com/group/nafexlist >> https://sites.google.com/site/nafexmailinglist >> Avant Geared http://www.avantgeared.com >> >> > > __________________ > nafex mailing list > nafex at lists.ibiblio.org > Northamerican Allied Fruit Experimenters > subscribe/unsubscribe|user config|list info|make a donation toward list > maintenance: > http://lists.ibiblio.org/mailman/listinfo/nafex > message archives > http://lists.ibiblio.org/pipermail/nafex > Google message archive search: > site: lists.ibiblio.org/pipermail/nafex [searchstring] > nafex list mirror sites: > http://groups.google.com/group/nafexlist > https://sites.google.com/site/nafexmailinglist > Avant Geared http://www.avantgeared.com > From qazingulaza at gmail.com Wed Sep 24 10:41:47 2014 From: qazingulaza at gmail.com (mIEKAL aND) Date: Wed, 24 Sep 2014 09:41:47 -0500 Subject: [nafex] looking for a hardiness listing of peach rootstock In-Reply-To: <12CC308BADD24C39A998B4105399E7C4@JolynPC> References: <74BE0A22-C197-486E-BA6E-75F88BA8686D@gmail.com> <88514f9c9d868411b66dac525c5cdf36@becon.org> <46B6343FFF714DB68CD9251C6A798740@JolynPC> <12CC308BADD24C39A998B4105399E7C4@JolynPC> Message-ID: We had the winter of winters here. Coldest since 1978 (before I started growing fruit in the ground). 50+ days below 0 degrees F and two nights of -28F. There are a lot of peaches planted in our area and the only local ones available this year were grown in a cold tunnel. I do have a seedling peach grove of 3rd + 4th generation selected Siberian C, Iowa White indian and few other seedling strains. They did not flower either this year but they are all fully leafed out and looking good. Since my primary use is wine, and seedling peaches make wonderful wine, that's the direction I see myself heading. I'm not a grafter, so all my peaches are usually bought at retail prices so it's just too expensive to keep putting them in the ground only to see them die a few years later. On Wed, Sep 24, 2014 at 9:12 AM, Jolyn wrote: > mIEKAL, I should have mentioned that the 2013 fall & winter here was > extremely harsh. Contender survived on Lovell & K1 while Reliance & PF24C > died on both those rootstocks. I do have shallow soil as well as an > inhospitable growing site. Peaches are not commonly grown in this area but > they have fruited for me so I continue to plant them. > Jolyn > > -----Original Message----- From: mIEKAL aND > Sent: Wednesday, September 24, 2014 7:45 AM > To: mailing list at ibiblio - Northamerican Allied Fruit Experimenters > Subject: Re: [nafex] looking for a hardiness listing of peach rootstock > > Jolyn, I always thought Montana was warmer than sw WI where I am. What > kind of lows are you seeing? I had 2 Contenders make it thru last > year's winter and two died to the ground. The place I got them from > didn't know what rootstock they were on. > > ~mIEKAL > > > On Wed, Sep 24, 2014 at 8:25 AM, Jolyn wrote: >> >> Cummins Nursery sells peach on Krymsk 1. I have a 4 yr old Contender on >> K1 >> which has fruited as well as several plums and apricots on K1 here in Zone >> 4 >> Montana. >> Jolyn >> >> -----Original Message----- From: dwoodard at becon.org >> Sent: Wednesday, September 24, 2014 6:48 AM >> To: nafex at lists.ibiblio.org >> Subject: Re: [nafex] looking for a hardiness listing of peach rootstock >> >> >> In the Niagara peninsula (I think USDA zone 6), Bailey seedlings are >> preferred. >> >> In the Windsor area of Southern Ontario, there was some interest in the >> past in Siberian C. >> Tzim Pee Tao or Chui Lum Tao were I understand eventually preferred >> there from trial results, but I'm not sure what the growers have settled >> on. I have the impression that the advantage over Bailey for Sw Ontario >> conditions was not great. In British Columbia (Okanagan valley) Siberian >> C seems to be approved, but soil treatment for nematodes is recommended. >> >> An article from 1950 based I think mostly on U. Minnesota work, >> suggested that St. Julien A was about USDA zone 5 hardiness. >> >> I have read of prairie-hardy Western sand cherry Prunus besseyi being >> used as a rootstock for peach on well drained soil for short periods, >> and sometimes P. tomentosa, but I am not sure about long term >> compatibility and anchorage. >> >> Snow cover and root insulation will make a difference. >> >> Krymsk is just north of the western end of the Caucasus mountains, a >> little SW of Krasnodar which from its wikipedia article has a record low >> of about minus 27 degrees Fahrenheit. >> >> Krymsk1 is a cross between Prunus tomentosa and P. cerasifera >> (myrobalan). See >> http://www.janssen-rootstocks.nl >> >> Doug Woodard >> St. Catharines, Ontario, Canada >> >> >> >> On Tue, 23 Sep 2014 07:57:51 -0500, mIEKAL aND >> wrote: >>> >>> >>> I'm beginning to think that part of the reason I lost almost 50 >>> grafted peach trees last winter has as much to do with rootstock >>> hardiness and the cultivars themselves. I'm wondering if anyone knows >>> of a hardiness listing of peach rootstocks? In particular Nemaguard, >>> Lovell, St Julian A, Krymsk 1, Mariana 2624 and any other so-called >>> hardy peach stocks. >>> >>> Several places are listing Lovell as a zone 7 rootstock, something I >>> did not realize. >>> >>> ~mIEKAL >> >> >> >> __________________ >> nafex mailing list >> nafex at lists.ibiblio.org >> Northamerican Allied Fruit Experimenters >> subscribe/unsubscribe|user config|list info|make a donation toward list >> maintenance: >> http://lists.ibiblio.org/mailman/listinfo/nafex >> message archives >> http://lists.ibiblio.org/pipermail/nafex >> Google message archive search: >> site: lists.ibiblio.org/pipermail/nafex [searchstring] >> nafex list mirror sites: >> http://groups.google.com/group/nafexlist >> https://sites.google.com/site/nafexmailinglist >> Avant Geared http://www.avantgeared.com >> __________________ >> nafex mailing list >> nafex at lists.ibiblio.org >> Northamerican Allied Fruit Experimenters >> subscribe/unsubscribe|user config|list info|make a donation toward list >> maintenance: >> http://lists.ibiblio.org/mailman/listinfo/nafex >> message archives >> http://lists.ibiblio.org/pipermail/nafex >> Google message archive search: >> site: lists.ibiblio.org/pipermail/nafex [searchstring] >> nafex list mirror sites: >> http://groups.google.com/group/nafexlist >> https://sites.google.com/site/nafexmailinglist >> Avant Geared http://www.avantgeared.com > > __________________ > nafex mailing list > nafex at lists.ibiblio.org > Northamerican Allied Fruit Experimenters > subscribe/unsubscribe|user config|list info|make a donation toward list > maintenance: > http://lists.ibiblio.org/mailman/listinfo/nafex > message archives > http://lists.ibiblio.org/pipermail/nafex > Google message archive search: > site: lists.ibiblio.org/pipermail/nafex [searchstring] > nafex list mirror sites: > http://groups.google.com/group/nafexlist > https://sites.google.com/site/nafexmailinglist > Avant Geared http://www.avantgeared.com > __________________ > nafex mailing list > nafex at lists.ibiblio.org > Northamerican Allied Fruit Experimenters > subscribe/unsubscribe|user config|list info|make a donation toward list > maintenance: > http://lists.ibiblio.org/mailman/listinfo/nafex > message archives > http://lists.ibiblio.org/pipermail/nafex > Google message archive search: > site: lists.ibiblio.org/pipermail/nafex [searchstring] > nafex list mirror sites: > http://groups.google.com/group/nafexlist > https://sites.google.com/site/nafexmailinglist > Avant Geared http://www.avantgeared.com From qazingulaza at gmail.com Wed Sep 24 11:27:26 2014 From: qazingulaza at gmail.com (mIEKAL aND) Date: Wed, 24 Sep 2014 10:27:26 -0500 Subject: [nafex] NAFEX on Facebook In-Reply-To: References: <54209FE6.8070100@att.net> <99613F4A-F937-4D85-A88C-B42044236A98@ginda.us> <20140923205033.GA24300@arcanum.localdomain.local> <5422113B.8000705@att.net> <5422D2A2.6030404@att.net> Message-ID: I've never actually logged into the forum on the NAFEX site. What software is it running? I'm not a fan of forums the same way folks here are not a fan of Facebook, but information trumps platform in my book. ~mIEKAL On Sep 24, 2014, at 9:32 AM, Tom Celona wrote: > I think you've got quite the wrong impression of the NAFEX facebook site. > The quality of the content is high. As an example, here are the most recent > topics of discussion, in order. > > 1. update from mulberry grafting experiments, with pictures > 2. discussion of grape pest problems, with pictures > 3. discussion and link to article about drought and how it relates to > fruit growers. > 4. discussion of the relative effects of age and sun exposure on the > bearing of kaki persimmons. > > If anyone doesn't want to be involved with facebook, I get it. No big deal. > But I don't think it benefits to suggest the content on the facebook NAFEX > site is any lower than it is here. It's simply not true. From hello at protocol6.com Wed Sep 24 16:24:22 2014 From: hello at protocol6.com (Andre Pierre) Date: Wed, 24 Sep 2014 16:24:22 -0400 Subject: [nafex] Question about crabapple trees top-worked with domestic apples. In-Reply-To: References: <54209FE6.8070100@att.net> <99613F4A-F937-4D85-A88C-B42044236A98@ginda.us> <20140923205033.GA24300@arcanum.localdomain.local> <5422113B.8000705@att.net> <5422D2A2.6030404@att.net> Message-ID: <20140924202419.GB31655@arcanum.localdomain.local> Hi all, I'm thinking about top-working a mature crabapple tree in my backyard with two or three domestic apple varieties. I have never done this, but have a good idea how to proceed. One thing I'd be curious to know is how long its likely to take until the new apple branches bear fruit (assuming the cleft grafts take, of course) Any observations or comments would be be greatly appreciated. Thanks in advance, and best regards. :-) Andre -- "The perfect is the enemy of the good." - Voltair From nave1 at comcast.net Wed Sep 24 18:54:11 2014 From: nave1 at comcast.net (Dan Nave) Date: Wed, 24 Sep 2014 17:54:11 -0500 Subject: [nafex] looking for a hardiness listing of peach rootstock In-Reply-To: References: <74BE0A22-C197-486E-BA6E-75F88BA8686D@gmail.com> <54220E01.70906@comcast.net> Message-ID: <54234B93.10703@comcast.net> Cummins nursery wrote: "We have had graft union sensitivity with first Krymsk 86 and now Krymsk 1 in many varieties, we always lose an inordinate number of trees to breakage at the time of digging. The hope has been that these unions would strengthen over time, which does seem to happen in the case of many varieties. But all in all I think we are ready to abandon the Krymsk 1 for apricots (and peach, but not plum), in spite of the cold hardiness and the dwarfing qualities. For the spring 2014 season we are returning to the use of Manchurian" Dan On 9/24/2014 7:14 AM, mIEKAL aND wrote: > Interesting Dan, I haven't used it personally, but it is listed as hardy peach rootstock on several sites I pulled up yesterday. Is it a plum? > > ~mIEKAL > > > On Sep 23, 2014, at 7:19 PM, Dan Nave wrote: > >> I believe Krymsk1 is not compatible with peach. >> >> Dan > __________________ > nafex mailing list > nafex at lists.ibiblio.org > Northamerican Allied Fruit Experimenters > subscribe/unsubscribe|user config|list info|make a donation toward list maintenance: > http://lists.ibiblio.org/mailman/listinfo/nafex > message archives > http://lists.ibiblio.org/pipermail/nafex > Google message archive search: > site: lists.ibiblio.org/pipermail/nafex [searchstring] > nafex list mirror sites: > http://groups.google.com/group/nafexlist > https://sites.google.com/site/nafexmailinglist > Avant Geared http://www.avantgeared.com > --- This email is free from viruses and malware because avast! Antivirus protection is active. http://www.avast.com From qazingulaza at gmail.com Wed Sep 24 19:10:25 2014 From: qazingulaza at gmail.com (mIEKAL aND) Date: Wed, 24 Sep 2014 18:10:25 -0500 Subject: [nafex] looking for a hardiness listing of peach rootstock In-Reply-To: <54234B93.10703@comcast.net> References: <74BE0A22-C197-486E-BA6E-75F88BA8686D@gmail.com> <54220E01.70906@comcast.net> <54234B93.10703@comcast.net> Message-ID: funny, I just wrote them to see if they have an Krymsk 1 for sale? but are they saying they'll use Manchurian apricot for peach rootstock? My manchurians are 15-20 feet high and the opposite of dwarfing.. ~mIEKAL On Sep 24, 2014, at 5:54 PM, Dan Nave wrote: > Cummins nursery wrote: "We have had graft union sensitivity with first Krymsk 86 and now Krymsk 1 in many varieties, we always lose an inordinate number of trees to breakage at the time of digging. The hope has been that these unions would strengthen over time, which does seem to happen in the case of many varieties. But all in all I think we are ready to abandon the Krymsk 1 for apricots (and peach, but not plum), in spite of the cold hardiness and the dwarfing qualities. For the spring 2014 season we are returning to the use of Manchurian" > > Dan From lfljvenaura at gmail.com Wed Sep 24 20:56:12 2014 From: lfljvenaura at gmail.com (Lawrence London) Date: Wed, 24 Sep 2014 20:56:12 -0400 Subject: [nafex] NAFEX on Facebook, now value beyond price In-Reply-To: <54221D31.2040609@mebtel.net> References: <948CD2C06176413D9B5CC947E420DAC7@farmerdavePC> <6CA30FF17315EB42A0235E62A0679F6B0108E3F8ED@SERVER1.eco.local> <848BEF6E4F5A49D590A7A566CAAE84D9@farmerdavePC> <54221D31.2040609@mebtel.net> Message-ID: On Tue, Sep 23, 2014 at 9:24 PM, Elizabeth Hilborn wrote: > Re: "Years ago it was amazing with value beyond price, still is of course." > > Yes, indeed. I became a member and started frequenting the list in the > early 2000s. I was early in the process of establishing my third site of > fruit plantings. The knowledge and advice that I have obtained from > participants of the list have allowed me to gain knowledge and skills at a > much higher rate than just reference material, word of mouth and trial and > error would have. Having such a productive orchard has given me great > pleasure and improved my quality of life. > > NAFEX is my community, one that I treasure greatly. Long live NAFEX! > > Betsy Hilborn > I second that, Betsy. -- Lawrence F. London lfljvenaura at gmail.com http://www.avantgeared.com https://plus.google.com/+Avantgeared Skype: lawrence.f.london From Jwlehman at aol.com Wed Sep 24 21:58:11 2014 From: Jwlehman at aol.com (Jwlehman at aol.com) Date: Wed, 24 Sep 2014 21:58:11 -0400 Subject: [nafex] Question about crabapple trees top-worked with domestic apples. Message-ID: <68a9a.3bf12116.4154d0b2@aol.com> Andre, With any kind of luck you will have fruit on the third leaf. Jerry In a message dated 9/24/2014 4:21:15 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time, hello at protocol6.com writes: I'm thinking about top-working a mature crabapple tree in my backyard with two or three domestic apple varieties. I have never done this, but have a good idea how to proceed. One thing I'd be curious to know is how long its likely to take until the new apple branches bear fruit (assuming the cleft grafts take, of course) Any observations or comments would be be greatly appreciated. Thanks in advance, and best regards. :-) Andre From Jwlehman at aol.com Wed Sep 24 22:03:47 2014 From: Jwlehman at aol.com (Jwlehman at aol.com) Date: Wed, 24 Sep 2014 22:03:47 -0400 Subject: [nafex] NAFEX on Facebook, now value beyond price Message-ID: <68c63.4ad53fb3.4154d203@aol.com> In a message dated 9/24/2014 8:56:42 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time, lfljvenaura at gmail.com writes: NAFEX is my community, one that I treasure greatly. Long live NAFEX! > > Betsy Hilborn > I second that, Betsy. I third that. Long live NAFEX and our chat net at listserv. Jerry From sherwindu at att.net Wed Sep 24 22:06:33 2014 From: sherwindu at att.net (sherwin) Date: Wed, 24 Sep 2014 21:06:33 -0500 Subject: [nafex] NAFEX on Facebook In-Reply-To: References: <54209FE6.8070100@att.net> <99613F4A-F937-4D85-A88C-B42044236A98@ginda.us> <20140923205033.GA24300@arcanum.localdomain.local> <5422113B.8000705@att.net> <5422D2A2.6030404@att.net> Message-ID: <542378A9.20003@att.net> Tom, Yes, there is some good content in the NAFEX facebook. The problem is it is intermixed with all kinds of other things like various club events around the USA, recipes, history, etc. I have not got the patience to wade through all this to find what is interesting to me, the technical aspects of growing fruit and availability of varieties. The Nafex web page makes an attempt to separate topics out into a few categories, but this site is for Nafex people only. Also, it is tiresome to sign on and get to this information. My observation is that most of the Nafex members prefer the Ibiblio forum (I certainly do). All of these web based discussion groups suffer from the same problem of endless chat and digression from the original topic. Sherwin Dubren On 9/24/2014 9:32 AM, Tom Celona wrote: > I think you've got quite the wrong impression of the NAFEX facebook site. > The quality of the content is high. As an example, here are the most recent > topics of discussion, in order. > > 1. update from mulberry grafting experiments, with pictures > 2. discussion of grape pest problems, with pictures > 3. discussion and link to article about drought and how it relates to > fruit growers. > 4. discussion of the relative effects of age and sun exposure on the > bearing of kaki persimmons. > > If anyone doesn't want to be involved with facebook, I get it. No big deal. > But I don't think it benefits to suggest the content on the facebook NAFEX > site is any lower than it is here. It's simply not true. > > On Wed, Sep 24, 2014 at 9:18 AM, sherwin wrote: > >> On 9/24/2014 7:23 AM, mIEKAL aND wrote: >> >>> Sherwin, you crack me up. Describing young folks interested in >>> permaculture, horticulture, botany, fruit exploration, food production, >>> organics, climate change, ecology, community building, plant breeding, >>> networking as Facebookers because they happen to be on a Facebook group is >>> nothing short of phobia. >>> >> Funny, I don't remember mentioning the age of these people. I think >> it afflicts people of all ages. Call it phobia, I say many >> people are tied to their computers and cell phones like an umbilical >> cord. I am not anti-computer, but with some people, >> this need for enormous communications is not normal. There is some >> interesting content on these facebook sites, but >> it is sometimes disguised among a bunch of chit chat and I personally >> don't want to bother searching for it. >> >>> As for off topic and digressions, you apparently haven't been on this >>> list all that long because along with all the amazing discussions that have >>> taken place here, those are inevitable byproducts of any forum, chat, >>> group, bulletin board. People are people. Let a 1000 flowers bloom. >>> >> Maybe, with a few exceptions, most of the interesting people on the >> Nafex forum are basically gardeners first and >> computer geeks last. They do not walk around their orchards with >> their cell phones glued to their heads. Their >> postings are strictly about raising fruit and not about daily trivia >> found on facebook sites. >> >> Sherwin >> >> >>> ~mIEKAL >>> >>> >>> On Sep 23, 2014, at 7:32 PM, sherwin wrote: >>> >>> There is a price to pay to take in all these facebooker's. Some of them >>>> have no knowledge of growing fruit and ask a >>>> lot of stupid questions. I have always admired the level of >>>> expertise on the Ibiblio Nafex forum and have tried to >>>> emulate this high standard as administrator of the Midfex Ibiblio >>>> forum. I have noticed that most chat sites like >>>> facebook tend to downgrade the quality of discussion, with people >>>> going off on tangents not even related to the >>>> prime identity of the particular forum. >>>> >>> __________________ >>> nafex mailing list >>> nafex at lists.ibiblio.org >>> Northamerican Allied Fruit Experimenters >>> subscribe/unsubscribe|user config|list info|make a donation toward list >>> maintenance: >>> http://lists.ibiblio.org/mailman/listinfo/nafex >>> message archives >>> http://lists.ibiblio.org/pipermail/nafex >>> Google message archive search: >>> site: lists.ibiblio.org/pipermail/nafex [searchstring] >>> nafex list mirror sites: >>> http://groups.google.com/group/nafexlist >>> https://sites.google.com/site/nafexmailinglist >>> Avant Geared http://www.avantgeared.com >>> >>> >> __________________ >> nafex mailing list >> nafex at lists.ibiblio.org >> Northamerican Allied Fruit Experimenters >> subscribe/unsubscribe|user config|list info|make a donation toward list >> maintenance: >> http://lists.ibiblio.org/mailman/listinfo/nafex >> message archives >> http://lists.ibiblio.org/pipermail/nafex >> Google message archive search: >> site: lists.ibiblio.org/pipermail/nafex [searchstring] >> nafex list mirror sites: >> http://groups.google.com/group/nafexlist >> https://sites.google.com/site/nafexmailinglist >> Avant Geared http://www.avantgeared.com >> > __________________ > nafex mailing list > nafex at lists.ibiblio.org > Northamerican Allied Fruit Experimenters > subscribe/unsubscribe|user config|list info|make a donation toward list maintenance: > http://lists.ibiblio.org/mailman/listinfo/nafex > message archives > http://lists.ibiblio.org/pipermail/nafex > Google message archive search: > site: lists.ibiblio.org/pipermail/nafex [searchstring] > nafex list mirror sites: > http://groups.google.com/group/nafexlist > https://sites.google.com/site/nafexmailinglist > Avant Geared http://www.avantgeared.com > From sherwindu at att.net Wed Sep 24 22:22:13 2014 From: sherwindu at att.net (sherwin) Date: Wed, 24 Sep 2014 21:22:13 -0500 Subject: [nafex] Question about crabapple trees top-worked with domestic apples. In-Reply-To: <20140924202419.GB31655@arcanum.localdomain.local> References: <54209FE6.8070100@att.net> <99613F4A-F937-4D85-A88C-B42044236A98@ginda.us> <20140923205033.GA24300@arcanum.localdomain.local> <5422113B.8000705@att.net> <5422D2A2.6030404@att.net> <20140924202419.GB31655@arcanum.localdomain.local> Message-ID: <54237C55.6090002@att.net> Hi Andre, I have had mixed results doing this. The earliest I got fruit was the following season with one large apple appearing. The following season it produced no fruit. I was doing whip and tongue for this top working. My most spectacular success was grafting a NY 1502 plum onto a Stanley Plum tree. That graft started producing plums one year after the graft. Now, after a few years, the original Stanley Plum branches died from Black Knot and the NY 1502 has replaced it with numerous branches and gives several quarts of plums every season. Overall though, I don't feel there were enough returns for the amount of work I put in. I now have several such grafts sitting there for a couple of years now that are producing no apples. It's still fun to try. Sherwin Dubren On 9/24/2014 3:24 PM, Andre Pierre wrote: > Hi all, > > I'm thinking about top-working a mature crabapple tree in my backyard with two or three domestic apple varieties. > > I have never done this, but have a good idea how to proceed. > > One thing I'd be curious to know is how long its likely to take until the new apple branches bear fruit (assuming the cleft grafts take, of course) > > Any observations or comments would be be greatly appreciated. > > Thanks in advance, and best regards. > > :-) > > Andre > From lfljvenaura at gmail.com Wed Sep 24 23:05:54 2014 From: lfljvenaura at gmail.com (Lawrence London) Date: Wed, 24 Sep 2014 23:05:54 -0400 Subject: [nafex] Updated information about the Northamerican Allied Fruit Experimenters mailing list (nafex list at ibiblio). Message-ID: Updated information about the Northamerican Allied Fruit Experimenters mailing list (nafex list at ibiblio) http://lists.ibiblio.org/mailman/listinfo/nafex <> Northamerican Allied Fruit Experimenters Subscription Information: Procedure for subscribing to the nafex mailing list: Fill out the subscription form on this page: http://lists.ibiblio.org/mailman/listinfo/nafex and send it in. To post to this list, send your email to: nafex at lists.ibiblio.org General information about the mailing list is located at: http://lists.ibiblio.org/mailman/listinfo/nafex The list message archives are here: http://lists.ibiblio.org/pipermail/nafex Summary: Be sure to save your password sent to you when you subscribed. If you forget it you can have the list send you a reminder in email. You may log in and manage your user account at: http://lists.ibiblio.org/mailman/listinfo/nafex <> http://lists.ibiblio.org/mailman/listinfo/nafex nafex mailing list message archives: http://lists.ibiblio.org/pipermail/nafex Google command to search the nafex list at ibiblio message archives: site: lists.ibiblio.org/pipermail/nafex [searchstring] omit the brackets above and type this into your Google search dialog box top right on your web browser screen Ex.: site: lists.ibiblio.org/pipermail/nafex calamondin nafex list message archive mirror sites: Google Groups: permaculturelist group https://groups.google.com/forum/#!forum/permaculturelist (new message archive mirror for the nafex list at ibiblio, active archive begun 9/24/2014, is combined with the permaculture mailing list mirror archives) nafexlist group (message archiving has stopped but old archives can be read) http://groups.google.com/group/nafexlist nafex list website (reference library) Google Site: https://sites.google.com/site/nafexmailinglist/ From jimfruth at charter.net Wed Sep 24 20:57:39 2014 From: jimfruth at charter.net (Jim Fruth) Date: Wed, 24 Sep 2014 19:57:39 -0500 Subject: [nafex] Help save the Bees Message-ID: <7AE11B5E2DC04342B531E7D9D46C6F61@OwnerPC> Sierra Club From: Molly Brooksbank, SierraRise Sent: Wednesday, September 24, 2014 11:00 AM To: jimfruth at charter.net Subject: Bees This could be the biggest threat to bees yet. Big Ag wants to increase using the poison killing our bees by up to 4,000%! If we submit 50,000 comments before the October 6 deadline, we'll be too loud to ignore -- help save the bees today! Dear James, And we thought the bee problem couldn't get any worse. Over 100,000 SierraRise supporters like you have taken action to stop ?neonics,? the deadly insecticide responsible for killing our bees and putting our food supply at risk. [1] But now the EPA is actually considering a request to increase how much of this bee-killing toxin we let into our environment! A massive Big Ag company has asked the EPA to let it spray more neonics than ever before on alfalfa, barley, corn, and wheat -- up to 400 times more! -- no matter how many already-imperiled bees it kills. [2] This could cripple our food supply. The EPA is taking public comments on this issue until October 6, and is required to consider them all. If 50,000 SierraRise supporters speak out now, it will go a long way towards countering Big Ag's deep pockets! Help save the bees by submitting your official comment today: Tell the EPA our food supply matters more than Big Ag's profits! Neonic use must be banned, not increased! The company behind this horrible request is Syngenta, a Swiss biotech corporation that brought in $14.6 billion in 2013 alone. [3] This is not a company we should trust to put our bees and food supply first: It spends millions on lobbying to get its way, and a lawsuit filed earlier this month accuses it of ripping off American farmers. [4,5] Perhaps most damning of all, it was called out last winter for smearing a research scientist who discovered problems with its products. [6,7] We can't let Syngenta win -- already every year, we lose 30% of our honey bees. [8] This is a big deal because bees help produce every third bite of food we take. Yet just this past winter alone, states like Michigan and Indiana lost more than 60% of their bee populations. It's time the EPA stops the use of neonics altogether -- letting Big Ag double down is the wrong way to go. Will you raise your voice for the bees, James? When we stand together, our voices are too loud to ignore -- take 30 seconds to contact the EPA now! In it together, Molly Brooksbank SierraRise P.S. Five signatures are even more powerful than one -- after you take action, be sure to forward this alert to your friends, family, and colleagues! References: 1. Leahy, Stephen (2014 June 24). "How 'the New DDT' Wreaks Havoc on the Bottom of the Food Chain." Motherboard. 2. Stecker, Tiffany (2014 September 5). "Syngenta asks EPA to raise tolerance level for 'bee-killing' chemical." Greenwire. 3. Syngenta staff (accessed 2014 September 15). "Annual Report 2013." Syngenta. 4. OpenSecrets staff (accessed 2014 September 15). "Syngenta AG." OpenSecrets.org. 5. Bunge, Jacob (2014 September 12). "Cargill Sues Syngenta Over Sale of GMO Seeds Unapproved in China." The Wall Street Journal. 6. Aviv, Rachel (2014 February 10). "A Valuable Reputation." The New Yorker. 7. Democracy Now staff (2014 February 21). "Silencing the Scientist: Tyrone Hayes on Being Targeted by Herbicide Firm Syngenta." Democracy Now. 8. vanEngelsdorp, Dennis et al (2014 May 6). "Preliminary Results: Honey Bee Colony Losses in the United States, 2013-2014." Bee Informed. Photo credit: Flickr user ausiegall, CC By 2.0 Sierra Club | 85 2nd St San Francisco, CA 94105 | sierrarise.members at sierraclub.org Unsubscribe from SierraRise | Update My Profile | Manage My Email Preferences View as a Webpage | Tell a Friend About This Email This email was sent to jimfruth at charter.net. Not you? Sign up here. From lfljvenaura at gmail.com Thu Sep 25 01:09:15 2014 From: lfljvenaura at gmail.com (Lawrence London) Date: Thu, 25 Sep 2014 01:09:15 -0400 Subject: [nafex] Help save the Bees In-Reply-To: <7AE11B5E2DC04342B531E7D9D46C6F61@OwnerPC> References: <7AE11B5E2DC04342B531E7D9D46C6F61@OwnerPC> Message-ID: And also: ---------- Forwarded message ---------- Hello, All! The activist in me has been aroused by Dow Chemical/Monsanto's latest attempt to further poison our food supply. To be specific, Dow/Monsanto has created a stronger weed killer than Roundup called Enlist DUO by adding 2, 4-D which was an ingredient in Agent Orange and other deadly products. The FDA has approved it and now it's up to the EPA before it gets the final OK. You can get the details in the National Resources Defense Council's blog post at: http://switchboard.nrdc.org/blogs/kpullen/24-d_or_not_24-d_that_is_epas.html Although the primary growing fields may be thousands of miles from us, the food supply isn't. And of course, there are local farms all around us which might use this new product. Not to mention, it won't be long before this product will find its way onto the shelves in our local garden centers and home improvement stores where homeowners (some of whom think more is better) will be using it. We have an opportunity to impact this process by being part of a petition initiated by Dr. Mehmet Oz during the open comment period. You can sign the petition by going to http://wh.gov/ilIqc. A minimum of 100,00 signatures are required. If you get to the site and the number is over 100,00 sign it anyway: this is a case where more is really better. I thank you from the bottom of my organic heart!! Lorraine Lorraine Ballato Grow the best plants you can by converting your containers to self-waterers easily and cheaply. Go to http://www.successfulselfwateringcontainers.com/< http://www.successfulselfwateringcontainers.com/> to get the full story. "the US Department of Agriculture (USDA) and US Environmental Protection Agency (EPA) have treated a new pesticide mix called Enlist Duo. For many years, glyphosate (the active ingredient of Roundup) has been used to combat weed growth in corn fields. Farmers plant corn that has been genetically modified (commonly called ?GMO corn?) to be resistant to chemicals like glyphosate, allowing them to spray increasing amounts of herbicides to kill weeds without damaging their crops. Though the GMO corn is ?protected? from the killing-action of the herbicide, some plants like milkweed (a staple of the iconic Monarch butterfly - see NRDC Wildlife Conservation Project Director, Dr. Sylvia Fallon?s, blogpost for more details) are destroyed, while other weeds begin to develop resistance to the herbicide. So what does one do when your go-to herbicide stops controlling weeds in your field? The chemical company solution: *Use even MORE herbicide.* Enlist Duo, the agricultural equivalent of swallowing a spider, is a chemical combination of two herbicides: glyphosate and 2,4-D (or 2,4-dichlorophenoxyacetic acid). Intended for use on genetically modified corn and soy (the GM crop seed was approved by USDA last week ), the Enlist Duo chemical mix is currently being reviewed by EPA for market approval. The Enlist Duo registration has garnered a great deal of attention, with both media (like yesterday?s segment on the Dr. Oz show ) and the public (nearly 400,000 comments were submitted to EPA on the Enlist Duo registration ? including comments from NRDC ) ? overwhelmingly opposing the new pesticide." On Wed, Sep 24, 2014 at 8:57 PM, Jim Fruth wrote: > Sierra Club > > From: Molly Brooksbank, SierraRise > Sent: Wednesday, September 24, 2014 11:00 AM > To: jimfruth at charter.net > Subject: Bees > > > > This could be the biggest threat to bees yet. > > Big Ag wants to increase using the poison killing our > bees by up to 4,000%! > > > > If we submit 50,000 comments before the October 6 > deadline, we'll be too loud to ignore -- help save the bees today! > > > > Dear James, > > And we thought the bee problem couldn't get any worse. > > Over 100,000 SierraRise supporters like you have taken action > to stop ?neonics,? the deadly insecticide responsible for killing our bees > and putting our food supply at risk. [1] But now the EPA is actually > considering a request to increase how much of this bee-killing toxin we let > into our environment! > > A massive Big Ag company has asked the EPA to let it spray > more neonics than ever before on alfalfa, barley, corn, and wheat -- up to > 400 times more! -- no matter how many already-imperiled bees it kills. [2] > This could cripple our food supply. > > The EPA is taking public comments on this issue until October > 6, and is required to consider them all. If 50,000 SierraRise supporters > speak out now, it will go a long way towards countering Big Ag's deep > pockets! > > Help save the bees by submitting your official comment today: > Tell the EPA our food supply matters more than Big Ag's profits! Neonic use > must be banned, not increased! > > The company behind this horrible request is Syngenta, a Swiss > biotech corporation that brought in $14.6 billion in 2013 alone. [3] This > is not a company we should trust to put our bees and food supply first: It > spends millions on lobbying to get its way, and a lawsuit filed earlier > this month accuses it of ripping off American farmers. [4,5] Perhaps most > damning of all, it was called out last winter for smearing a research > scientist who discovered problems with its products. [6,7] > > We can't let Syngenta win -- already every year, we lose 30% > of our honey bees. [8] This is a big deal because bees help produce every > third bite of food we take. Yet just this past winter alone, states like > Michigan and Indiana lost more than 60% of their bee populations. It's time > the EPA stops the use of neonics altogether -- letting Big Ag double down > is the wrong way to go. > > Will you raise your voice for the bees, James? When we stand > together, our voices are too loud to ignore -- take 30 seconds to contact > the EPA now! > > In it together, > > Molly Brooksbank > SierraRise > > P.S. Five signatures are even more powerful than one -- after > you take action, be sure to forward this alert to your friends, family, and > colleagues! > > > > > > References: > > 1. Leahy, Stephen (2014 June 24). "How 'the New DDT' Wreaks > Havoc on the Bottom of the Food Chain." Motherboard. > > 2. Stecker, Tiffany (2014 September 5). "Syngenta asks EPA to > raise tolerance level for 'bee-killing' chemical." Greenwire. > > 3. Syngenta staff (accessed 2014 September 15). "Annual Report > 2013." Syngenta. > > 4. OpenSecrets staff (accessed 2014 September 15). "Syngenta > AG." OpenSecrets.org. > > 5. Bunge, Jacob (2014 September 12). "Cargill Sues Syngenta > Over Sale of GMO Seeds Unapproved in China." The Wall Street Journal. > > 6. Aviv, Rachel (2014 February 10). "A Valuable Reputation." > The New Yorker. > > 7. Democracy Now staff (2014 February 21). "Silencing the > Scientist: Tyrone Hayes on Being Targeted by Herbicide Firm Syngenta." > Democracy Now. > > 8. vanEngelsdorp, Dennis et al (2014 May 6). "Preliminary > Results: Honey Bee Colony Losses in the United States, 2013-2014." Bee > Informed. > > Photo credit: Flickr user ausiegall, CC By 2.0 > > Sierra Club | 85 2nd St San Francisco, CA 94105 | > sierrarise.members at sierraclub.org > Unsubscribe from SierraRise | Update My Profile | Manage > My Email Preferences > View as a Webpage | Tell a Friend About This Email > > This email was sent to jimfruth at charter.net. Not you? > Sign up here. > > > > __________________ > nafex mailing list > nafex at lists.ibiblio.org > Northamerican Allied Fruit Experimenters > subscribe/unsubscribe|user config|list info|make a donation toward list > maintenance: > http://lists.ibiblio.org/mailman/listinfo/nafex > message archives > http://lists.ibiblio.org/pipermail/nafex > Google message archive search: > site: lists.ibiblio.org/pipermail/nafex [searchstring] > nafex list mirror sites: > http://groups.google.com/group/nafexlist > https://sites.google.com/site/nafexmailinglist > Avant Geared http://www.avantgeared.com -- Lawrence F. London lfljvenaura at gmail.com http://www.avantgeared.com https://plus.google.com/+Avantgeared Skype: lawrence.f.london From bluestem_farm at juno.com Thu Sep 25 08:21:13 2014 From: bluestem_farm at juno.com (Scott Weber and Muffy Barrett) Date: Thu, 25 Sep 2014 12:21:13 GMT Subject: [nafex] Question about crabapple trees top-worked with domestic ap ples. Message-ID: <20140925.072113.28370.0@webmail03.dca.untd.com> Andre,I second what Jerry says. Topworking a mature tree can give fantastic growth. You may even get fruit setting at the second leaf, but it's best to pick it off since there still won't be a lot of wood strengthening the graft at that point and you don't want to break it off. Go for it!Muffy Barrett ---------- Original Message ---------- Andre, With any kind of luck you will have fruit on the third leaf. Jerry In a message dated 9/24/2014 4:21:15 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time, I'm thinking about top-working a mature crabapple tree in my backyard with two or three domestic apple varieties. One thing I'd be curious to know is how long its likely to take until the new apple branches bear fruit (assuming the cleft grafts take, of course) Andre __________________ ____________________________________________________________ The #1 Worst Carb Ever? Click to Learn #1 Carb that Kills Your Blood Sugar (Don't Eat This!) http://thirdpartyoffers.juno.com/TGL3131/5424091963aa391907e8st03duc From bluestem_farm at juno.com Thu Sep 25 08:24:19 2014 From: bluestem_farm at juno.com (Scott Weber and Muffy Barrett) Date: Thu, 25 Sep 2014 12:24:19 GMT Subject: [nafex] looking for a hardiness listing of peach rootstock Message-ID: <20140925.072419.28370.1@webmail03.dca.untd.com> mIEKAL,the way I read what they wrote is that they are abandoning the Krymsk 1 in spite of its dwarfing qualities. Muffy ---------- Original Message ---------- funny, I just wrote them to see if they have an Krymsk 1 for sale� but are they saying they'll use Manchurian apricot for peach rootstock? My manchurians are 15-20 feet high and the opposite of dwarfing.. ~mIEKAL On Sep 24, 2014, at 5:54 PM, Dan Nave wrote: > Cummins nursery wrote: "We have had graft union sensitivity with first Krymsk 86 and now Krymsk 1 in many varieties, we always lose an inordinate number of trees to breakage at the time of digging. The hope has been that these unions would strengthen over time, which does seem to happen in the case of many varieties. But all in all I think we are ready to abandon the Krymsk 1 for apricots (and peach, but not plum), in spite of the cold hardiness and the dwarfing qualities. For the spring 2014 season we are returning to the use of Manchurian" > > Dan __________________ nafex mailing list nafex at lists.ibiblio.org Northamerican Allied Fruit Experimenters subscribe/unsubscribe|user config|list info|make a donation toward list maintenance: http://lists.ibiblio.org/mailman/listinfo/nafex message archives http://lists.ibiblio.org/pipermail/nafex Google message archive search: site: lists.ibiblio.org/pipermail/nafex [searchstring] nafex list mirror sites: http://groups.google.com/group/nafexlist https://sites.google.com/site/nafexmailinglist Avant Geared http://www.avantgeared.com ____________________________________________________________ The End of the "Made-In-China" Era The impossible (but real) technology that could make you impossibly rich. http://thirdpartyoffers.juno.com/TGL3131/542409d0896fc9d079f1st04duc From toni.pralle at gmail.com Thu Sep 25 09:08:51 2014 From: toni.pralle at gmail.com (Toni Pralle) Date: Thu, 25 Sep 2014 08:08:51 -0500 Subject: [nafex] apples Message-ID: I had planned to can apples this week and in preparation picked one from each tree to taste. No. Not good! They are not sweet and don't have much flavor at all. If I wait longer will they sweeten up? One is golden delicious and the other might be winesap but I really don't know what it is. Another tree that produced for the first time this year had wonderful huge apples. Unfortunately we had a wind storm and most were blown off the tree where my chickens found them before I did. -- Toni in Iowa USA ************************************************ Feminism in 2014 comes from the same place it always has: *the radical notion that women are people.* ************************************************ From sherwindu at att.net Thu Sep 25 10:17:35 2014 From: sherwindu at att.net (sherwin) Date: Thu, 25 Sep 2014 09:17:35 -0500 Subject: [nafex] apples In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <542423FF.8090403@att.net> Toni, Apples do not get more flavor after they are picked. They will lose some of their acidity and thus taste sweeter, but not more flavorful. It's not clear if this is your first crop and therefore an unusual year for you. Possibly, you let the trees produce too much fruit. This has the effect of diluting the flavor. Try more thinning. Sherwin Dubren On 9/25/2014 8:08 AM, Toni Pralle wrote: > I had planned to can apples this week and in preparation picked one from > each tree to taste. No. Not good! They are not sweet and don't have much > flavor at all. If I wait longer will they sweeten up? One is golden > delicious and the other might be winesap but I really don't know what it > is. Another tree that produced for the first time this year had wonderful > huge apples. Unfortunately we had a wind storm and most were blown off the > tree where my chickens found them before I did. > From qazingulaza at gmail.com Thu Sep 25 19:45:11 2014 From: qazingulaza at gmail.com (mIEKAL aND) Date: Thu, 25 Sep 2014 18:45:11 -0500 Subject: [nafex] Fru Dagmar Hastrup (aka Frau Dagmar Hartopp) rosa rugosa Message-ID: Based on photos Little John has been circulating Fru Dagmar Hastrup (aka Frau Dagmar Hartopp) have substantially larger rose hips than any other variety of rosa rugosa. Every place that I pull up online appears to be out of stock. Does anyone know where I can get a plant or two? thanks. I'm planting a lot of rose hips at my vineyard as a blending agent for medicinal wines. ~mIEKAL From list at ginda.us Thu Sep 25 23:18:52 2014 From: list at ginda.us (Ginda Fisher) Date: Thu, 25 Sep 2014 23:18:52 -0400 Subject: [nafex] Question about crabapple trees top-worked with domestic apples. In-Reply-To: <3465DBF4-D42D-443F-A163-4DAFDE0C8EC9@ginda.us> References: <54209FE6.8070100@att.net> <99613F4A-F937-4D85-A88C-B42044236A98@ginda.us> <20140923205033.GA24300@arcanum.localdomain.local> <5422113B.8000705@att.net> <5422D2A2.6030404@att.net> <20140924202419.GB31655@arcanum.localdomain.local> <3465DBF4-D42D-443F-A163-4DAFDE0C8EC9@ginda.us> Message-ID: <8A5AD14F-AFB7-43A5-938B-9448DA2E09E4@ginda.us> On Sep 24, 2014, at 4:24 PM, Andre Pierre wrote: > Hi all, > > I'm thinking about top-working a mature crabapple tree in my backyard with two or three domestic apple varieties. > > I have never done this, but have a good idea how to proceed. > > One thing I'd be curious to know is how long its likely to take until the new apple branches bear fruit (assuming the cleft grafts take, of course) > > Any observations or comments would be be greatly appreciated. > > Thanks in advance, and best regards. > > :-) > > Andre I've had poor success doing this. I did several grafts, most of which appeared to take fine, onto two mature crab apples. One of them died two years later, and I suspect it was some latent virus in one of the scions that killed it. I've also lost a seedling crab apple shortly after I grafted it, with similar symptoms. The other crab is still thriving, many years later, and still supports all the grafts I put on it. But it turns out that domestic apples need more sun to produce than the crab does, and are more susceptible to insects (especially winter moths) damaging the flowers, and are much more attractive to wild life (deer and rabbits, etc.) that eat the bark, twigs, and fruits. I haven't lost any of the grafts completely, but I don't think I have gotten a mature fruit, either. (In good years, some of the grafts that get more sun have flowered and produced fruit, but critters took it all before it ripened.) But, other people have had better luck than I. Especially if your crab is in full sun, I'd urge you to go for it. It's not very hard to do, and it's sort of fun. Ginda easter Mass., zone 6 From lfljvenaura at gmail.com Fri Sep 26 08:37:18 2014 From: lfljvenaura at gmail.com (Lawrence London) Date: Fri, 26 Sep 2014 08:37:18 -0400 Subject: [nafex] NAFEX on Facebook In-Reply-To: <20140923205033.GA24300@arcanum.localdomain.local> References: <54209FE6.8070100@att.net> <99613F4A-F937-4D85-A88C-B42044236A98@ginda.us> <20140923205033.GA24300@arcanum.localdomain.local> Message-ID: On Tue, Sep 23, 2014 at 4:50 PM, Andre Pierre wrote: > Sites like Facebook and Google are not *just* convenient tools. They are > big corporations that often (usually?) have questionable patterns of > behavior. > To use them, and to actively encourage others to use them, is to endorse > such behaviors, or at best to turn a blind eye to them. > > For Facebook the list is pretty extensive and in my view damning: > https://stallman.org/facebook.html. > I did not realize what FB was up to until I read this news today: <> Ello?s thinly veiled rebuke to Facebook: ?Your social network is owned by advertisers. Every post you share, every friend you make and every link you follow is tracked, recorded and converted into data.? SAN FRANCISCO (MarketWatch) ? There has been a lot of chatter on social media this week about a new social network called Ello, which is getting buzz for its anti-Facebook Inc. stance. But is the start-up, which accepts no advertising and does no data mining, ready for prime time? Ello has apparently been gaining such a huge influx of new users that its servers were having problems in the past two days, despite the requirement that you need an invitation to join. As Ello tells users who visit its simple, clean, black-and-white site: It has a ?manifesto.? ?Your social network is owned by advertisers,? reads Ello?s ?about? page. ?Every post you share, every friend you make and every link you follow is tracked, recorded and converted into data. Advertisers buy your data so they can show you more ads. You are the product that?s bought and sold. ... We believe there is a better way." <> -- Lawrence F. London lfljvenaura at gmail.com http://www.avantgeared.com https://plus.google.com/+Avantgeared Skype: lawrence.f.london From Jwlehman at aol.com Fri Sep 26 08:52:54 2014 From: Jwlehman at aol.com (Jwlehman at aol.com) Date: Fri, 26 Sep 2014 08:52:54 -0400 Subject: [nafex] Question about crabapple trees top-worked with domestic apples. Message-ID: <460a7.197f6c27.4156bba6@aol.com> Ginda, list at ginda.us wrote: I've had poor success doing this. I did several grafts, most of which appeared to take fine, onto two mature crab apples. One of them died two years later, and I suspect it was some latent virus in one of the scions that killed it. I've also lost a seedling crab apple shortly after I grafted it, with similar symptoms. The other crab is still thriving, many years later, and still supports all the grafts I put on it. But it turns out that domestic apples need more sun to produce than the crab does, and are more susceptible to insects (especially winter moths) damaging the flowers, and are much more attractive to wild life (deer and rabbits, etc.) that eat the bark, twigs, and fruits. I haven't lost any of the grafts completely, but I don't think I have gotten a mature fruit, either. (In good years, some of the grafts that get more sun have flowered and produced fruit, but critters took it all before it ripened.) But, other people have had better luck than I. Especially if your crab is in full sun, I'd urge you to go for it. It's not very hard to do, and it's sort of fun. Almost all fruit bearing species do best in full sun. This includes pawpaw which naturally is an understory tree. I once had 15 apple varieties grafted to a Schmidwarr (sp?) rootstock. It was interesting as it bore different varieties from June to Oct. When this is done constant pruning is required as some varieties outgrow others, shading the less vigorous varieties. The mistake I made was grafting to the dwarfing understock. Dwarfing understocks are dwarfing partially because they have poor root systems and require support, staking, to remain upright. I had failed to do this and it blew over after only a few years. My attempts to stake it up failed as the root system never recovered. Jerry From qazingulaza at gmail.com Fri Sep 26 09:43:39 2014 From: qazingulaza at gmail.com (mIEKAL aND) Date: Fri, 26 Sep 2014 08:43:39 -0500 Subject: [nafex] NAFEX on Facebook In-Reply-To: References: <54209FE6.8070100@att.net> <99613F4A-F937-4D85-A88C-B42044236A98@ginda.us> <20140923205033.GA24300@arcanum.localdomain.local> Message-ID: Lawrence, if you want to check out Ello, I have invites. It's in uber beta stage to and doesn't have many features. Also as far as I can tell there's not much happening there yet in the organic gardening permaculture realm... You can also request an invite from the front page but that may take a while to come back to you. On Fri, Sep 26, 2014 at 7:37 AM, Lawrence London wrote: > On Tue, Sep 23, 2014 at 4:50 PM, Andre Pierre wrote: > >> Sites like Facebook and Google are not *just* convenient tools. They are >> big corporations that often (usually?) have questionable patterns of >> behavior. >> To use them, and to actively encourage others to use them, is to endorse >> such behaviors, or at best to turn a blind eye to them. >> >> For Facebook the list is pretty extensive and in my view damning: >> https://stallman.org/facebook.html. >> > > I did not realize what FB was up to until I read this news today: > <> > Ello?s thinly veiled rebuke to Facebook: ?Your social network is owned by > advertisers. Every post you share, every friend you make and every link you > follow is tracked, recorded and converted into data.? > > SAN FRANCISCO (MarketWatch) ? There has been a lot of chatter on social > media this week about a new social network called Ello, which is getting > buzz for its anti-Facebook Inc. stance. But is the start-up, which accepts > no advertising and does no data mining, ready for prime time? > > Ello has apparently been gaining such a huge influx of new users that its > servers were having problems in the past two days, despite the requirement > that you need an invitation to join. As Ello tells users who visit its > simple, clean, black-and-white site: It has a ?manifesto.? > > ?Your social network is owned by advertisers,? reads Ello?s ?about? page. > ?Every post you share, every friend you > make and every link you follow is tracked, recorded and converted into > data. Advertisers buy your data so they can show you more ads. You are the > product that?s bought and sold. ... We believe there is a better way." > > <> > -- > Lawrence F. London > lfljvenaura at gmail.com > http://www.avantgeared.com > https://plus.google.com/+Avantgeared > Skype: lawrence.f.london > __________________ > nafex mailing list > nafex at lists.ibiblio.org > Northamerican Allied Fruit Experimenters > subscribe/unsubscribe|user config|list info|make a donation toward list maintenance: > http://lists.ibiblio.org/mailman/listinfo/nafex > message archives > http://lists.ibiblio.org/pipermail/nafex > Google message archive search: > site: lists.ibiblio.org/pipermail/nafex [searchstring] > nafex list mirror sites: > http://groups.google.com/group/nafexlist > https://sites.google.com/site/nafexmailinglist > Avant Geared http://www.avantgeared.com From Jwlehman at aol.com Fri Sep 26 10:31:36 2014 From: Jwlehman at aol.com (Jwlehman at aol.com) Date: Fri, 26 Sep 2014 10:31:36 -0400 Subject: [nafex] Facebook Message-ID: <483ca.698f8a06.4156d2c8@aol.com> Dear Karen & Jim, FYI Jerry In a message dated 9/26/2014 9:43:52 A.M. Eastern Daylight Time, qazingulaza at gmail.com writes: SAN FRANCISCO (MarketWatch) ? Re Facebook: ?Every post you share, every friend you > make and every link you follow is tracked, recorded and converted into > data. Advertisers buy your data so they can show you more ads. You are the > product that?s bought and sold. From qazingulaza at gmail.com Fri Sep 26 11:22:54 2014 From: qazingulaza at gmail.com (mIEKAL aND) Date: Fri, 26 Sep 2014 10:22:54 -0500 Subject: [nafex] Facebook In-Reply-To: <483ca.698f8a06.4156d2c8@aol.com> References: <483ca.698f8a06.4156d2c8@aol.com> Message-ID: The same is true for gmail/google http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/02/29/google-privacy-changes-how-to-remove-web-history_n_1307489.html On Fri, Sep 26, 2014 at 9:31 AM, Jwlehman--- via nafex wrote: > Dear Karen & Jim, > > FYI > > Jerry > > > > In a message dated 9/26/2014 9:43:52 A.M. Eastern Daylight Time, > qazingulaza at gmail.com writes: > > SAN FRANCISCO (MarketWatch) ? Re Facebook: ?Every post you share, every > friend you >> make and every link you follow is tracked, recorded and converted into >> data. Advertisers buy your data so they can show you more ads. You are > the >> product that?s bought and sold. > __________________ > nafex mailing list > nafex at lists.ibiblio.org > Northamerican Allied Fruit Experimenters > subscribe/unsubscribe|user config|list info|make a donation toward list maintenance: > http://lists.ibiblio.org/mailman/listinfo/nafex > message archives > http://lists.ibiblio.org/pipermail/nafex > Google message archive search: > site: lists.ibiblio.org/pipermail/nafex [searchstring] > nafex list mirror sites: > http://groups.google.com/group/nafexlist > https://sites.google.com/site/nafexmailinglist > Avant Geared http://www.avantgeared.com From yettmw at gmail.com Fri Sep 26 11:26:23 2014 From: yettmw at gmail.com (Mary Yett) Date: Fri, 26 Sep 2014 11:26:23 -0400 Subject: [nafex] Fru Dagmar Hastrup (aka Frau Dagmar Hartopp) rosa rugosa In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Corn Hill Nursery in New Brunswick carries this rose - try them. I do not know if they are out of stock or not. I recommend this nursery highly - I have received excellent stock and service from them for decades. Mary Yett On Thu, Sep 25, 2014 at 7:45 PM, mIEKAL aND wrote: > Based on photos Little John has been circulating Fru Dagmar Hastrup (aka > Frau Dagmar Hartopp) have substantially larger rose hips than any other > variety of rosa rugosa. Every place that I pull up online appears to be > out of stock. Does anyone know where I can get a plant or two? > > thanks. I'm planting a lot of rose hips at my vineyard as a blending > agent for medicinal wines. > > ~mIEKAL > > > __________________ > nafex mailing list > nafex at lists.ibiblio.org > Northamerican Allied Fruit Experimenters > subscribe/unsubscribe|user config|list info|make a donation toward list > maintenance: > http://lists.ibiblio.org/mailman/listinfo/nafex > message archives > http://lists.ibiblio.org/pipermail/nafex > Google message archive search: > site: lists.ibiblio.org/pipermail/nafex [searchstring] > nafex list mirror sites: > http://groups.google.com/group/nafexlist > https://sites.google.com/site/nafexmailinglist > Avant Geared http://www.avantgeared.com > From lfljvenaura at gmail.com Fri Sep 26 11:26:42 2014 From: lfljvenaura at gmail.com (Lawrence London) Date: Fri, 26 Sep 2014 11:26:42 -0400 Subject: [nafex] NAFEX on Facebook In-Reply-To: References: <54209FE6.8070100@att.net> <99613F4A-F937-4D85-A88C-B42044236A98@ginda.us> <20140923205033.GA24300@arcanum.localdomain.local> Message-ID: On Fri, Sep 26, 2014 at 9:43 AM, mIEKAL aND wrote: > Lawrence, if you want to check out Ello, I have invites. It's in uber > beta stage to and doesn't have many features. Also as far as I can > tell there's not much happening there yet in the organic gardening > permaculture realm... You can also request an invite from the front > page but that may take a while to come back to you. > Thanks Miekal for the update and invite. Look at things from my perspective, watching traffic fall off from all my mailing lists because of lure of social media, particularly Facebook, to a certain extent Reddit and now Ello, as cool as it may be. Why should I contribute to something that draws users away from my forums? I wrote this reply to David who runs the ibiblio Pacific Bulb Society list at ibiblio who was concerned about new subscribers not being able to access the list because of the captcha (designed to prevent bots) in the subscription process. "Sometimes you have to use the simplest most time consuming procedures to keep subscribers onboard. Just think about how hard it is to get subscribers and build traffic in a new list and keep it in old ones. Social media, particularly Facebook, has siphoned off a lot of that. David writes: "I once subscribed to a list which required me to write an essay expounding my passion for the subject before they would consider me to be legitimate." That's very cool and is just the way Usenet and email lists worked in the Internet early days, i.e. before the Web and html. I heard it said that access to discussion forums and acceptance among peers in them played a large role in the success of their academic and professional careers (email & usenet & ftp were only available to academia and government then). One person wrote that he lurked in a newsgroup (maybe it was a mailing list) for a full year, just reading and learning protocol, before being brave enough to post. I believe that. If only Usenet was that way now. It kept a lot of people together in one easy to use place instead of having their online activity scattered among a myriad of other discussion and information sharing resources." I wwish Ello success and hope it siphons off most of FB's users. > > On Fri, Sep 26, 2014 at 7:37 AM, Lawrence London > wrote: > > On Tue, Sep 23, 2014 at 4:50 PM, Andre Pierre > wrote: > > > >> Sites like Facebook and Google are not *just* convenient tools. They are > >> big corporations that often (usually?) have questionable patterns of > >> behavior. > >> To use them, and to actively encourage others to use them, is to endorse > >> such behaviors, or at best to turn a blind eye to them. > >> > >> For Facebook the list is pretty extensive and in my view damning: > >> https://stallman.org/facebook.html. > >> > > > > I did not realize what FB was up to until I read this news today: > > <> > > Ello?s thinly veiled rebuke to Facebook: ?Your social network is owned by > > advertisers. Every post you share, every friend you make and every link > you > > follow is tracked, recorded and converted into data.? > > > > SAN FRANCISCO (MarketWatch) ? There has been a lot of chatter on social > > media this week about a new social network called Ello, which is getting > > buzz for its anti-Facebook Inc. stance. But is the start-up, which > accepts > > no advertising and does no data mining, ready for prime time? > > > > Ello has apparently been gaining such a huge influx of new users that its > > servers were having problems in the past two days, despite the > requirement > > that you need an invitation to join. As Ello tells users who visit its > > simple, clean, black-and-white site: It has a ?manifesto.? > > > > ?Your social network is owned by advertisers,? reads Ello?s ?about? page. > > ?Every post you share, every friend you > > make and every link you follow is tracked, recorded and converted into > > data. Advertisers buy your data so they can show you more ads. You are > the > > product that?s bought and sold. ... We believe there is a better way." > -- Lawrence F. London lfljvenaura at gmail.com http://www.avantgeared.com https://plus.google.com/+Avantgeared Skype: lawrence.f.london From qazingulaza at gmail.com Fri Sep 26 11:29:56 2014 From: qazingulaza at gmail.com (mIEKAL aND) Date: Fri, 26 Sep 2014 10:29:56 -0500 Subject: [nafex] Fru Dagmar Hastrup (aka Frau Dagmar Hartopp) rosa rugosa In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: thank you! On Fri, Sep 26, 2014 at 10:26 AM, Mary Yett wrote: > Corn Hill Nursery in New Brunswick carries this rose - try them. I do not > know if they are out of stock or not. I recommend this nursery highly - I > have received excellent stock and service from them for decades. > > Mary Yett > > On Thu, Sep 25, 2014 at 7:45 PM, mIEKAL aND wrote: > >> Based on photos Little John has been circulating Fru Dagmar Hastrup (aka >> Frau Dagmar Hartopp) have substantially larger rose hips than any other >> variety of rosa rugosa. Every place that I pull up online appears to be >> out of stock. Does anyone know where I can get a plant or two? >> >> thanks. I'm planting a lot of rose hips at my vineyard as a blending >> agent for medicinal wines. >> >> ~mIEKAL >> >> >> __________________ >> nafex mailing list >> nafex at lists.ibiblio.org >> Northamerican Allied Fruit Experimenters >> subscribe/unsubscribe|user config|list info|make a donation toward list >> maintenance: >> http://lists.ibiblio.org/mailman/listinfo/nafex >> message archives >> http://lists.ibiblio.org/pipermail/nafex >> Google message archive search: >> site: lists.ibiblio.org/pipermail/nafex [searchstring] >> nafex list mirror sites: >> http://groups.google.com/group/nafexlist >> https://sites.google.com/site/nafexmailinglist >> Avant Geared http://www.avantgeared.com >> > __________________ > nafex mailing list > nafex at lists.ibiblio.org > Northamerican Allied Fruit Experimenters > subscribe/unsubscribe|user config|list info|make a donation toward list maintenance: > http://lists.ibiblio.org/mailman/listinfo/nafex > message archives > http://lists.ibiblio.org/pipermail/nafex > Google message archive search: > site: lists.ibiblio.org/pipermail/nafex [searchstring] > nafex list mirror sites: > http://groups.google.com/group/nafexlist > https://sites.google.com/site/nafexmailinglist > Avant Geared http://www.avantgeared.com From lfljvenaura at gmail.com Fri Sep 26 11:46:12 2014 From: lfljvenaura at gmail.com (Lawrence London) Date: Fri, 26 Sep 2014 11:46:12 -0400 Subject: [nafex] NAFEX on Facebook In-Reply-To: References: <54209FE6.8070100@att.net> <99613F4A-F937-4D85-A88C-B42044236A98@ginda.us> <20140923205033.GA24300@arcanum.localdomain.local> Message-ID: For those who might be interested, I noticed today that Deb Schneider of NAFEX has unsubscribed from this list. She has posted regular news about the Pomona for subscribers and contributors so those needing to stay in touch with her on this subject will need to contact her directly by email, the NAFEX website or their Facebook page. She can always read the public online message archives if she chooses. Disaffiliation of this forum from the NAFEX organization, necessary and now accomplished, was long overdue despite any repercussions. -- Lawrence F. London lfljvenaura at gmail.com http://www.avantgeared.com https://plus.google.com/+Avantgeared Skype: lawrence.f.london From lfljvenaura at gmail.com Fri Sep 26 11:55:45 2014 From: lfljvenaura at gmail.com (Lawrence London) Date: Fri, 26 Sep 2014 11:55:45 -0400 Subject: [nafex] Facebook In-Reply-To: References: <483ca.698f8a06.4156d2c8@aol.com> Message-ID: On Fri, Sep 26, 2014 at 11:22 AM, mIEKAL aND wrote: > The same is true for gmail/google > > > http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/02/29/google-privacy-changes-how-to-remove-web-history_n_1307489.html > You can block Google from tracking your online activity and public references to your profile. It is easy to do and works. Google hides little about what they do so you know up front the ways they use your activity to generate revenue for themselves. They offer enough quality resources for free to offset that as far as I am concerned. G+, Sites, Groups, Gmail, Drive/Docs, Picasa and Blogger all make it a positive experience worth significant investment in time making them work for you.. -- Lawrence F. London lfljvenaura at gmail.com http://www.avantgeared.com https://plus.google.com/+Avantgeared Skype: lawrence.f.london From chandos49 at hotmail.com Fri Sep 26 11:59:11 2014 From: chandos49 at hotmail.com (david liezen) Date: Fri, 26 Sep 2014 15:59:11 +0000 Subject: [nafex] Hubbardston & Red Apples Message-ID: Murph asked about any red apples.? I got a first crop of Lord Lambourne this fall and am quite impressed. Large, red, juicy, sweet/tart, some aroma and reports are they keep 6-8 weeks. There aren't have enough to prove that this season. I have it on Bud9 and realized after the fact that was a mistake, for Lord Lambourne seems to grow to modest dimensions. I'll probably dig it up and bury the graft union so it can become a standard -- ten feet? It is a partial tip bearer, so will need light pruning each year to direct growth. More days above 90F last summer than ever before, with humidity often 12% in Spokane, WA. No problem with this apple. Can't say that about another English apple I'd tried, Queen Cox, which is a bud sport of Cox Orange Pippin. that shrivelled into leafy crisps as soon as the heat came on and the fruit was terrible, year by year. I've tasted King David: wonderful! It is supposed to be very resistant to disease and vigorous, but I haven't grown it. Have you looked into Beacon? It is early, hardy (very), deeply red out West, sweet and has a floral aroma I liken to lilac or sweet Alyssum. Got to taste a bagfull last year and am trying to start one for a friend.? Dave Liezen From organic87 at frontiernet.net Fri Sep 26 12:03:50 2014 From: organic87 at frontiernet.net (Road's End Farm) Date: Fri, 26 Sep 2014 12:03:50 -0400 Subject: [nafex] Facebook In-Reply-To: References: <483ca.698f8a06.4156d2c8@aol.com> Message-ID: <6326B579-2C7C-4C87-966C-FB88A869C0EB@frontiernet.net> On Sep 26, 2014, at 11:55 AM, Lawrence London wrote: > G+, Sites, Groups, Gmail, Drive/Docs, Picasa > and Blogger all make it a positive experience worth significant investment > in time making them work for you.. This is true for some people and not others. I have a G+ account but found so little I wanted to do with it that I never go there. I'm not interested in storing my information in a fashion, or in using a document format, over which I have no control. I understand that this is different for people who frequently want to access their documents from a vatiety of computers -- for them the advantages may well outweigh the disadvantages. -- Rivka; Finger Lakes NY, Zone 6A now I think Fresh-market organic produce, small scale From leeareich at gmail.com Fri Sep 26 14:36:40 2014 From: leeareich at gmail.com (Lee Reich) Date: Fri, 26 Sep 2014 14:36:40 -0400 Subject: [nafex] Fru Dagmar Hastrup (aka Frau Dagmar Hartopp) rosa rugosa In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <277667E9-732F-4CBC-8D7B-148B28A609B9@leereich.com> I have grown the Frau for years and it's made few and relatively small hips every year. Lee Reich, PhD Come visit my farmden at http://www.leereich.com/blog http://leereich.com/ Books by Lee Reich: A Northeast Gardener's Year The Pruning Book Weedless Gardening Uncommon Fruits for Every Garden Landscaping with Fruit Grow Fruit Naturally On Sep 25, 2014, at 7:45 PM, mIEKAL aND wrote: > Based on photos Little John has been circulating Fru Dagmar Hastrup (aka Frau Dagmar Hartopp) have substantially larger rose hips than any other variety of rosa rugosa. Every place that I pull up online appears to be out of stock. Does anyone know where I can get a plant or two? > > thanks. I'm planting a lot of rose hips at my vineyard as a blending agent for medicinal wines. > > ~mIEKAL > > > __________________ > nafex mailing list > nafex at lists.ibiblio.org > Northamerican Allied Fruit Experimenters > subscribe/unsubscribe|user config|list info|make a donation toward list maintenance: > http://lists.ibiblio.org/mailman/listinfo/nafex > message archives > http://lists.ibiblio.org/pipermail/nafex > Google message archive search: > site: lists.ibiblio.org/pipermail/nafex [searchstring] > nafex list mirror sites: > http://groups.google.com/group/nafexlist > https://sites.google.com/site/nafexmailinglist > Avant Geared http://www.avantgeared.com From qazingulaza at gmail.com Fri Sep 26 15:01:45 2014 From: qazingulaza at gmail.com (mIEKAL aND) Date: Fri, 26 Sep 2014 14:01:45 -0500 Subject: [nafex] Fru Dagmar Hastrup (aka Frau Dagmar Hartopp) rosa rugosa In-Reply-To: <277667E9-732F-4CBC-8D7B-148B28A609B9@leereich.com> References: <277667E9-732F-4CBC-8D7B-148B28A609B9@leereich.com> Message-ID: <4AE0FD58-FAD2-408B-B1DF-81DFEF894824@gmail.com> ha, I finally located some? how do they compare to generic rosa rugosa for hip size and production? On Sep 26, 2014, at 1:36 PM, Lee Reich wrote: > I have grown the Frau for years and it's made few and relatively small hips every year. > > Lee Reich, PhD > Come visit my farmden at http://www.leereich.com/blog > http://leereich.com/ > > Books by Lee Reich: > A Northeast Gardener's Year > The Pruning Book > Weedless Gardening > Uncommon Fruits for Every Garden > Landscaping with Fruit > Grow Fruit Naturally > > On Sep 25, 2014, at 7:45 PM, mIEKAL aND wrote: > >> Based on photos Little John has been circulating Fru Dagmar Hastrup (aka Frau Dagmar Hartopp) have substantially larger rose hips than any other variety of rosa rugosa. Every place that I pull up online appears to be out of stock. Does anyone know where I can get a plant or two? >> >> thanks. I'm planting a lot of rose hips at my vineyard as a blending agent for medicinal wines. >> >> ~mIEKAL >> >> >> __________________ >> nafex mailing list >> nafex at lists.ibiblio.org >> Northamerican Allied Fruit Experimenters >> subscribe/unsubscribe|user config|list info|make a donation toward list maintenance: >> http://lists.ibiblio.org/mailman/listinfo/nafex >> message archives >> http://lists.ibiblio.org/pipermail/nafex >> Google message archive search: >> site: lists.ibiblio.org/pipermail/nafex [searchstring] >> nafex list mirror sites: >> http://groups.google.com/group/nafexlist >> https://sites.google.com/site/nafexmailinglist >> Avant Geared http://www.avantgeared.com > > __________________ > nafex mailing list > nafex at lists.ibiblio.org > Northamerican Allied Fruit Experimenters > subscribe/unsubscribe|user config|list info|make a donation toward list maintenance: > http://lists.ibiblio.org/mailman/listinfo/nafex > message archives > http://lists.ibiblio.org/pipermail/nafex > Google message archive search: > site: lists.ibiblio.org/pipermail/nafex [searchstring] > nafex list mirror sites: > http://groups.google.com/group/nafexlist > https://sites.google.com/site/nafexmailinglist > Avant Geared http://www.avantgeared.com From leeareich at gmail.com Fri Sep 26 15:46:35 2014 From: leeareich at gmail.com (Lee Reich) Date: Fri, 26 Sep 2014 15:46:35 -0400 Subject: [nafex] Fru Dagmar Hastrup (aka Frau Dagmar Hartopp) rosa rugosa In-Reply-To: <4AE0FD58-FAD2-408B-B1DF-81DFEF894824@gmail.com> References: <277667E9-732F-4CBC-8D7B-148B28A609B9@leereich.com> <4AE0FD58-FAD2-408B-B1DF-81DFEF894824@gmail.com> Message-ID: <75394453-ABDC-46C4-A009-13D58F648532@leereich.com> In my experience, not as well. Lee Reich, PhD Come visit my farmden at http://www.leereich.com/blog http://leereich.com/ Books by Lee Reich: A Northeast Gardener's Year The Pruning Book Weedless Gardening Uncommon Fruits for Every Garden Landscaping with Fruit Grow Fruit Naturally On Sep 26, 2014, at 3:01 PM, mIEKAL aND wrote: > ha, I finally located some? how do they compare to generic rosa rugosa for hip size and production? > > > On Sep 26, 2014, at 1:36 PM, Lee Reich wrote: > >> I have grown the Frau for years and it's made few and relatively small hips every year. >> >> Lee Reich, PhD >> Come visit my farmden at http://www.leereich.com/blog >> http://leereich.com/ >> >> Books by Lee Reich: >> A Northeast Gardener's Year >> The Pruning Book >> Weedless Gardening >> Uncommon Fruits for Every Garden >> Landscaping with Fruit >> Grow Fruit Naturally >> >> On Sep 25, 2014, at 7:45 PM, mIEKAL aND wrote: >> >>> Based on photos Little John has been circulating Fru Dagmar Hastrup (aka Frau Dagmar Hartopp) have substantially larger rose hips than any other variety of rosa rugosa. Every place that I pull up online appears to be out of stock. Does anyone know where I can get a plant or two? >>> >>> thanks. I'm planting a lot of rose hips at my vineyard as a blending agent for medicinal wines. >>> >>> ~mIEKAL >>> >>> >>> __________________ >>> nafex mailing list >>> nafex at lists.ibiblio.org >>> Northamerican Allied Fruit Experimenters >>> subscribe/unsubscribe|user config|list info|make a donation toward list maintenance: >>> http://lists.ibiblio.org/mailman/listinfo/nafex >>> message archives >>> http://lists.ibiblio.org/pipermail/nafex >>> Google message archive search: >>> site: lists.ibiblio.org/pipermail/nafex [searchstring] >>> nafex list mirror sites: >>> http://groups.google.com/group/nafexlist >>> https://sites.google.com/site/nafexmailinglist >>> Avant Geared http://www.avantgeared.com >> >> __________________ >> nafex mailing list >> nafex at lists.ibiblio.org >> Northamerican Allied Fruit Experimenters >> subscribe/unsubscribe|user config|list info|make a donation toward list maintenance: >> http://lists.ibiblio.org/mailman/listinfo/nafex >> message archives >> http://lists.ibiblio.org/pipermail/nafex >> Google message archive search: >> site: lists.ibiblio.org/pipermail/nafex [searchstring] >> nafex list mirror sites: >> http://groups.google.com/group/nafexlist >> https://sites.google.com/site/nafexmailinglist >> Avant Geared http://www.avantgeared.com > > __________________ > nafex mailing list > nafex at lists.ibiblio.org > Northamerican Allied Fruit Experimenters > subscribe/unsubscribe|user config|list info|make a donation toward list maintenance: > http://lists.ibiblio.org/mailman/listinfo/nafex > message archives > http://lists.ibiblio.org/pipermail/nafex > Google message archive search: > site: lists.ibiblio.org/pipermail/nafex [searchstring] > nafex list mirror sites: > http://groups.google.com/group/nafexlist > https://sites.google.com/site/nafexmailinglist > Avant Geared http://www.avantgeared.com From lfljvenaura at gmail.com Sat Sep 27 03:18:30 2014 From: lfljvenaura at gmail.com (Lawrence London) Date: Sat, 27 Sep 2014 03:18:30 -0400 Subject: [nafex] Fru Dagmar Hastrup (aka Frau Dagmar Hartopp) rosa rugosa In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On Thu, Sep 25, 2014 at 7:45 PM, mIEKAL aND wrote: > Based on photos Little John has been circulating Fru Dagmar Hastrup (aka > Frau Dagmar Hartopp) have substantially larger rose hips than any other > variety of rosa rugosa. Every place that I pull up online appears to be > out of stock. Does anyone know where I can get a plant or two? > > thanks. I'm planting a lot of rose hips at my vineyard as a blending > agent for medicinal wines. > How are wild rose hips rated for culinary and medicinal properties? -- Lawrence F. London lfljvenaura at gmail.com http://www.avantgeared.com https://plus.google.com/+Avantgeared Skype: lawrence.f.london From richardqhansen at gmail.com Sat Sep 27 09:19:47 2014 From: richardqhansen at gmail.com (Richard Hansen) Date: Sat, 27 Sep 2014 08:19:47 -0500 Subject: [nafex] Fru Dagmar Hastrup (aka Frau Dagmar Hartopp) rosa rugosa In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <051DE869-0859-45E7-8C96-B5172F0587F9@gmail.com> I personally found that Scabrosa and Darts Dash produce a decent amount of hips that were good quality and fairly large. Both were larger than Jubilee, although Jubilee won hands down in the production department, BUT I did not think the hips were very good quality and they had to be picked at just the right time Sent from my iPhone > On Sep 25, 2014, at 6:45 PM, mIEKAL aND wrote: > > Based on photos Little John has been circulating Fru Dagmar Hastrup (aka Frau Dagmar Hartopp) have substantially larger rose hips than any other variety of rosa rugosa. Every place that I pull up online appears to be out of stock. Does anyone know where I can get a plant or two? > > thanks. I'm planting a lot of rose hips at my vineyard as a blending agent for medicinal wines. > > ~mIEKAL > > > __________________ > nafex mailing list > nafex at lists.ibiblio.org > Northamerican Allied Fruit Experimenters > subscribe/unsubscribe|user config|list info|make a donation toward list maintenance: > http://lists.ibiblio.org/mailman/listinfo/nafex > message archives > http://lists.ibiblio.org/pipermail/nafex > Google message archive search: > site: lists.ibiblio.org/pipermail/nafex [searchstring] > nafex list mirror sites: > http://groups.google.com/group/nafexlist > https://sites.google.com/site/nafexmailinglist > Avant Geared http://www.avantgeared.com From mark.lee.phd at gmail.com Sat Sep 27 10:25:34 2014 From: mark.lee.phd at gmail.com (Mark Lee) Date: Sat, 27 Sep 2014 07:25:34 -0700 Subject: [nafex] Fru Dagmar Hastrup (aka Frau Dagmar Hartopp) rosa rugosa In-Reply-To: <051DE869-0859-45E7-8C96-B5172F0587F9@gmail.com> References: <051DE869-0859-45E7-8C96-B5172F0587F9@gmail.com> Message-ID: Fru Dagmar Hastrup has been disappointing for me, also. I would recommend not planting it for fruit. The best tasting for me has been seedling Rosa canina. This is also the species that is grown commercially in Scandanavia for fruit. -Mark Lee, Seattle On Sat, Sep 27, 2014 at 6:19 AM, Richard Hansen wrote: > I personally found that Scabrosa and Darts Dash produce a decent amount of > hips that were good quality and fairly large. Both were larger than > Jubilee, although Jubilee won hands down in the production department, BUT > I did not think the hips were very good quality and they had to be picked > at just the right time > > Sent from my iPhone > > > On Sep 25, 2014, at 6:45 PM, mIEKAL aND wrote: > > > > Based on photos Little John has been circulating Fru Dagmar Hastrup (aka > Frau Dagmar Hartopp) have substantially larger rose hips than any other > variety of rosa rugosa. Every place that I pull up online appears to be > out of stock. Does anyone know where I can get a plant or two? > > > > thanks. I'm planting a lot of rose hips at my vineyard as a blending > agent for medicinal wines. > > > > ~mIEKAL > > > > > > __________________ > > nafex mailing list > > nafex at lists.ibiblio.org > > Northamerican Allied Fruit Experimenters > > subscribe/unsubscribe|user config|list info|make a donation toward list > maintenance: > > http://lists.ibiblio.org/mailman/listinfo/nafex > > message archives > > http://lists.ibiblio.org/pipermail/nafex > > Google message archive search: > > site: lists.ibiblio.org/pipermail/nafex [searchstring] > > nafex list mirror sites: > > http://groups.google.com/group/nafexlist > > https://sites.google.com/site/nafexmailinglist > > Avant Geared http://www.avantgeared.com > __________________ > nafex mailing list > nafex at lists.ibiblio.org > Northamerican Allied Fruit Experimenters > subscribe/unsubscribe|user config|list info|make a donation toward list > maintenance: > http://lists.ibiblio.org/mailman/listinfo/nafex > message archives > http://lists.ibiblio.org/pipermail/nafex > Google message archive search: > site: lists.ibiblio.org/pipermail/nafex [searchstring] > nafex list mirror sites: > http://groups.google.com/group/nafexlist > https://sites.google.com/site/nafexmailinglist > Avant Geared http://www.avantgeared.com > From lfljvenaura at gmail.com Sat Sep 27 10:25:48 2014 From: lfljvenaura at gmail.com (Lawrence London) Date: Sat, 27 Sep 2014 10:25:48 -0400 Subject: [nafex] test post Message-ID: test post From Jwlehman at aol.com Sat Sep 27 10:26:57 2014 From: Jwlehman at aol.com (Jwlehman at aol.com) Date: Sat, 27 Sep 2014 10:26:57 -0400 Subject: [nafex] test post Message-ID: <68615.67ba2020.41582331@aol.com> Received OK Jerry Lehman In a message dated 9/27/2014 10:26:16 A.M. Eastern Daylight Time, lfljvenaura at gmail.com writes: test post __________________ nafex mailing list nafex at lists.ibiblio.org Northamerican Allied Fruit Experimenters subscribe/unsubscribe|user config|list info|make a donation toward list maintenance: http://lists.ibiblio.org/mailman/listinfo/nafex message archives http://lists.ibiblio.org/pipermail/nafex Google message archive search: site: lists.ibiblio.org/pipermail/nafex [searchstring] nafex list mirror sites: http://groups.google.com/group/nafexlist https://sites.google.com/site/nafexmailinglist Avant Geared http://www.avantgeared.com From lfljvenaura at gmail.com Sat Sep 27 10:54:19 2014 From: lfljvenaura at gmail.com (Lawrence London) Date: Sat, 27 Sep 2014 10:54:19 -0400 Subject: [nafex] test post In-Reply-To: <68615.67ba2020.41582331@aol.com> References: <68615.67ba2020.41582331@aol.com> Message-ID: On Sat, Sep 27, 2014 at 10:26 AM, Jwlehman--- via nafex < nafex at lists.ibiblio.org> wrote: > Received OK > > Jerry Lehman > > Thanks, Jerry. I am trying to get the backup message archives working again. I'll see if this post gets through. -- Lawrence F. London lfljvenaura at gmail.com http://www.avantgeared.com https://plus.google.com/+Avantgeared Skype: lawrence.f.london From alandhaigh at gmail.com Sat Sep 27 11:17:34 2014 From: alandhaigh at gmail.com (Alan Haigh) Date: Sat, 27 Sep 2014 11:17:34 -0400 Subject: [nafex] neonicinoids- grafting crabs Message-ID: Is NAFEX going to turn into a site about the politics of pesticides- I hope not. As far as neonicinoids being the root of colony collapse, how come banning them in Europe didn't alleviate the problem? How come bees in areas where they are not exposed to agricultural pesticides in general are equally suffering? At any rate, not all neonicionoids have even been implicated in this complex problem so let's at least be information oriented in this discussion. I hate faith based politics whether they come from the left or the right- ends up creating wars based on emotion instead of logic, in my opinion. Farmers and fruit growers need healthy hives to stay in business, so once the science is clear they won't use pesticides that kill bees- it would be suicidal to their business. It amazes me how farmers are so seldom part of these types of discussions in the mass media. As far as grafting crabs, how will it works depends almost entirely on the vigor of the tree being grafted over and, more specifically, the vigor of whatever branch or shoot grafted to. Vigorously growing trees can be transformed in about 4 years either by cleft or bark grafts to large diameter wood or, as I like to do, grafts to well positioned and vigorous annual shoots using the simplest of grafts- the splice. When they grow well some apples will form the second year and can be allowed to mature as long as vigor remains. Upright shoots grow with the most vigor and I wait until they are almost too. big to bend before I spread them to a more horizontal position- usually after the first or second year. Sometimes I wait too long and have to cut a hinge into the wood to get it to bend using saw cuts a third of the way through on the side where the branch is being bent, placing cuts about an inch apart where I want the branch to bend. 3-6 cuts is usually sufficient. From richardqhansen at gmail.com Sat Sep 27 11:59:29 2014 From: richardqhansen at gmail.com (Ro Qu) Date: Sat, 27 Sep 2014 10:59:29 -0500 Subject: [nafex] test post In-Reply-To: References: <68615.67ba2020.41582331@aol.com> Message-ID: Received OK Richard HAnsen On Sat, Sep 27, 2014 at 9:54 AM, Lawrence London wrote: > On Sat, Sep 27, 2014 at 10:26 AM, Jwlehman--- via nafex < > nafex at lists.ibiblio.org> wrote: > > > Received OK > > > > Jerry Lehman > > > > Thanks, Jerry. I am trying to get the backup message archives working > again. I'll see if this post gets through. > -- > Lawrence F. London > lfljvenaura at gmail.com > http://www.avantgeared.com > https://plus.google.com/+Avantgeared > Skype: lawrence.f.london > __________________ > nafex mailing list > nafex at lists.ibiblio.org > Northamerican Allied Fruit Experimenters > subscribe/unsubscribe|user config|list info|make a donation toward list > maintenance: > http://lists.ibiblio.org/mailman/listinfo/nafex > message archives > http://lists.ibiblio.org/pipermail/nafex > Google message archive search: > site: lists.ibiblio.org/pipermail/nafex [searchstring] > nafex list mirror sites: > http://groups.google.com/group/nafexlist > https://sites.google.com/site/nafexmailinglist > Avant Geared http://www.avantgeared.com > From tanisgrif at yahoo.com Sat Sep 27 12:45:21 2014 From: tanisgrif at yahoo.com (tanis grif) Date: Sat, 27 Sep 2014 09:45:21 -0700 Subject: [nafex] some going into junk folder In-Reply-To: References: <68615.67ba2020.41582331@aol.com> Message-ID: <1411836321.86186.YahooMailNeo@web121706.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> Recently, on basic Yahoo Mail. Just an FYI/ heads-up, if it will help trouble-shoot. On Saturday, September 27, 2014 10:59 AM, Ro Qu wrote: Received OK Richard HAnsen On Sat, Sep 27, 2014 at 9:54 AM, Lawrence London wrote: > On Sat, Sep 27, 2014 at 10:26 AM, Jwlehman--- via nafex < > nafex at lists.ibiblio.org> wrote: > > > Received OK > > > From qazingulaza at gmail.com Sat Sep 27 14:31:43 2014 From: qazingulaza at gmail.com (mIEKAL aND) Date: Sat, 27 Sep 2014 13:31:43 -0500 Subject: [nafex] Fru Dagmar Hastrup (aka Frau Dagmar Hartopp) rosa rugosa In-Reply-To: References: <051DE869-0859-45E7-8C96-B5172F0587F9@gmail.com> Message-ID: Mark: never heard of Rosa canina. How hardy are they? ~mIEKAL On Sat, Sep 27, 2014 at 9:25 AM, Mark Lee wrote: > Fru Dagmar Hastrup has been disappointing for me, also. I would recommend > not planting it for fruit. The best tasting for me has been seedling Rosa > canina. This is also the species that is grown commercially in Scandanavia > for fruit. > -Mark Lee, Seattle > > On Sat, Sep 27, 2014 at 6:19 AM, Richard Hansen > wrote: > >> I personally found that Scabrosa and Darts Dash produce a decent amount of >> hips that were good quality and fairly large. Both were larger than >> Jubilee, although Jubilee won hands down in the production department, BUT >> I did not think the hips were very good quality and they had to be picked >> at just the right time >> >> Sent from my iPhone >> >> > On Sep 25, 2014, at 6:45 PM, mIEKAL aND wrote: >> > >> > Based on photos Little John has been circulating Fru Dagmar Hastrup (aka >> Frau Dagmar Hartopp) have substantially larger rose hips than any other >> variety of rosa rugosa. Every place that I pull up online appears to be >> out of stock. Does anyone know where I can get a plant or two? >> > >> > thanks. I'm planting a lot of rose hips at my vineyard as a blending >> agent for medicinal wines. >> > >> > ~mIEKAL >> > >> > >> > __________________ >> > nafex mailing list >> > nafex at lists.ibiblio.org >> > Northamerican Allied Fruit Experimenters >> > subscribe/unsubscribe|user config|list info|make a donation toward list >> maintenance: >> > http://lists.ibiblio.org/mailman/listinfo/nafex >> > message archives >> > http://lists.ibiblio.org/pipermail/nafex >> > Google message archive search: >> > site: lists.ibiblio.org/pipermail/nafex [searchstring] >> > nafex list mirror sites: >> > http://groups.google.com/group/nafexlist >> > https://sites.google.com/site/nafexmailinglist >> > Avant Geared http://www.avantgeared.com >> __________________ >> nafex mailing list >> nafex at lists.ibiblio.org >> Northamerican Allied Fruit Experimenters >> subscribe/unsubscribe|user config|list info|make a donation toward list >> maintenance: >> http://lists.ibiblio.org/mailman/listinfo/nafex >> message archives >> http://lists.ibiblio.org/pipermail/nafex >> Google message archive search: >> site: lists.ibiblio.org/pipermail/nafex [searchstring] >> nafex list mirror sites: >> http://groups.google.com/group/nafexlist >> https://sites.google.com/site/nafexmailinglist >> Avant Geared http://www.avantgeared.com >> > __________________ > nafex mailing list > nafex at lists.ibiblio.org > Northamerican Allied Fruit Experimenters > subscribe/unsubscribe|user config|list info|make a donation toward list maintenance: > http://lists.ibiblio.org/mailman/listinfo/nafex > message archives > http://lists.ibiblio.org/pipermail/nafex > Google message archive search: > site: lists.ibiblio.org/pipermail/nafex [searchstring] > nafex list mirror sites: > http://groups.google.com/group/nafexlist > https://sites.google.com/site/nafexmailinglist > Avant Geared http://www.avantgeared.com From qazingulaza at gmail.com Sat Sep 27 15:23:34 2014 From: qazingulaza at gmail.com (mIEKAL aND) Date: Sat, 27 Sep 2014 14:23:34 -0500 Subject: [nafex] Fru Dagmar Hastrup (aka Frau Dagmar Hartopp) rosa rugosa In-Reply-To: References: <051DE869-0859-45E7-8C96-B5172F0587F9@gmail.com> Message-ID: doh, Rosa canina is dog roses of course. I have dog roses and they've never produced many hips and far smaller than rosa rugosa. nice looking foliage tho... ~mIEKAL On Sat, Sep 27, 2014 at 1:31 PM, mIEKAL aND wrote: > Mark: never heard of Rosa canina. How hardy are they? > > ~mIEKAL > > On Sat, Sep 27, 2014 at 9:25 AM, Mark Lee wrote: >> Fru Dagmar Hastrup has been disappointing for me, also. I would recommend >> not planting it for fruit. The best tasting for me has been seedling Rosa >> canina. This is also the species that is grown commercially in Scandanavia >> for fruit. >> -Mark Lee, Seattle >> >> On Sat, Sep 27, 2014 at 6:19 AM, Richard Hansen >> wrote: >> >>> I personally found that Scabrosa and Darts Dash produce a decent amount of >>> hips that were good quality and fairly large. Both were larger than >>> Jubilee, although Jubilee won hands down in the production department, BUT >>> I did not think the hips were very good quality and they had to be picked >>> at just the right time >>> >>> Sent from my iPhone >>> >>> > On Sep 25, 2014, at 6:45 PM, mIEKAL aND wrote: >>> > >>> > Based on photos Little John has been circulating Fru Dagmar Hastrup (aka >>> Frau Dagmar Hartopp) have substantially larger rose hips than any other >>> variety of rosa rugosa. Every place that I pull up online appears to be >>> out of stock. Does anyone know where I can get a plant or two? >>> > >>> > thanks. I'm planting a lot of rose hips at my vineyard as a blending >>> agent for medicinal wines. >>> > >>> > ~mIEKAL >>> > >>> > >>> > __________________ >>> > nafex mailing list >>> > nafex at lists.ibiblio.org >>> > Northamerican Allied Fruit Experimenters >>> > subscribe/unsubscribe|user config|list info|make a donation toward list >>> maintenance: >>> > http://lists.ibiblio.org/mailman/listinfo/nafex >>> > message archives >>> > http://lists.ibiblio.org/pipermail/nafex >>> > Google message archive search: >>> > site: lists.ibiblio.org/pipermail/nafex [searchstring] >>> > nafex list mirror sites: >>> > http://groups.google.com/group/nafexlist >>> > https://sites.google.com/site/nafexmailinglist >>> > Avant Geared http://www.avantgeared.com >>> __________________ >>> nafex mailing list >>> nafex at lists.ibiblio.org >>> Northamerican Allied Fruit Experimenters >>> subscribe/unsubscribe|user config|list info|make a donation toward list >>> maintenance: >>> http://lists.ibiblio.org/mailman/listinfo/nafex >>> message archives >>> http://lists.ibiblio.org/pipermail/nafex >>> Google message archive search: >>> site: lists.ibiblio.org/pipermail/nafex [searchstring] >>> nafex list mirror sites: >>> http://groups.google.com/group/nafexlist >>> https://sites.google.com/site/nafexmailinglist >>> Avant Geared http://www.avantgeared.com >>> >> __________________ >> nafex mailing list >> nafex at lists.ibiblio.org >> Northamerican Allied Fruit Experimenters >> subscribe/unsubscribe|user config|list info|make a donation toward list maintenance: >> http://lists.ibiblio.org/mailman/listinfo/nafex >> message archives >> http://lists.ibiblio.org/pipermail/nafex >> Google message archive search: >> site: lists.ibiblio.org/pipermail/nafex [searchstring] >> nafex list mirror sites: >> http://groups.google.com/group/nafexlist >> https://sites.google.com/site/nafexmailinglist >> Avant Geared http://www.avantgeared.com From richardqhansen at gmail.com Sat Sep 27 15:29:38 2014 From: richardqhansen at gmail.com (Ro Qu) Date: Sat, 27 Sep 2014 14:29:38 -0500 Subject: [nafex] Fru Dagmar Hastrup (aka Frau Dagmar Hartopp) rosa rugosa In-Reply-To: References: <051DE869-0859-45E7-8C96-B5172F0587F9@gmail.com> Message-ID: I wonder if Mark has a strain that is more productive or if it is just his location. On Sat, Sep 27, 2014 at 2:23 PM, mIEKAL aND wrote: > doh, Rosa canina is dog roses of course. I have dog roses and they've > never produced many hips and far smaller than rosa rugosa. nice > looking foliage tho... > > ~mIEKAL > > On Sat, Sep 27, 2014 at 1:31 PM, mIEKAL aND wrote: > > Mark: never heard of Rosa canina. How hardy are they? > > > > ~mIEKAL > > > > On Sat, Sep 27, 2014 at 9:25 AM, Mark Lee > wrote: > >> Fru Dagmar Hastrup has been disappointing for me, also. I would > recommend > >> not planting it for fruit. The best tasting for me has been seedling > Rosa > >> canina. This is also the species that is grown commercially in > Scandanavia > >> for fruit. > >> -Mark Lee, Seattle > >> > >> On Sat, Sep 27, 2014 at 6:19 AM, Richard Hansen < > richardqhansen at gmail.com> > >> wrote: > >> > >>> I personally found that Scabrosa and Darts Dash produce a decent > amount of > >>> hips that were good quality and fairly large. Both were larger than > >>> Jubilee, although Jubilee won hands down in the production department, > BUT > >>> I did not think the hips were very good quality and they had to be > picked > >>> at just the right time > >>> > >>> Sent from my iPhone > >>> > >>> > On Sep 25, 2014, at 6:45 PM, mIEKAL aND > wrote: > >>> > > >>> > Based on photos Little John has been circulating Fru Dagmar Hastrup > (aka > >>> Frau Dagmar Hartopp) have substantially larger rose hips than any other > >>> variety of rosa rugosa. Every place that I pull up online appears to > be > >>> out of stock. Does anyone know where I can get a plant or two? > >>> > > >>> > thanks. I'm planting a lot of rose hips at my vineyard as a blending > >>> agent for medicinal wines. > >>> > > >>> > ~mIEKAL > >>> > > >>> > > >>> > __________________ > >>> > nafex mailing list > >>> > nafex at lists.ibiblio.org > >>> > Northamerican Allied Fruit Experimenters > >>> > subscribe/unsubscribe|user config|list info|make a donation toward > list > >>> maintenance: > >>> > http://lists.ibiblio.org/mailman/listinfo/nafex > >>> > message archives > >>> > http://lists.ibiblio.org/pipermail/nafex > >>> > Google message archive search: > >>> > site: lists.ibiblio.org/pipermail/nafex [searchstring] > >>> > nafex list mirror sites: > >>> > http://groups.google.com/group/nafexlist > >>> > https://sites.google.com/site/nafexmailinglist > >>> > Avant Geared http://www.avantgeared.com > >>> __________________ > >>> nafex mailing list > >>> nafex at lists.ibiblio.org > >>> Northamerican Allied Fruit Experimenters > >>> subscribe/unsubscribe|user config|list info|make a donation toward list > >>> maintenance: > >>> http://lists.ibiblio.org/mailman/listinfo/nafex > >>> message archives > >>> http://lists.ibiblio.org/pipermail/nafex > >>> Google message archive search: > >>> site: lists.ibiblio.org/pipermail/nafex [searchstring] > >>> nafex list mirror sites: > >>> http://groups.google.com/group/nafexlist > >>> https://sites.google.com/site/nafexmailinglist > >>> Avant Geared http://www.avantgeared.com > >>> > >> __________________ > >> nafex mailing list > >> nafex at lists.ibiblio.org > >> Northamerican Allied Fruit Experimenters > >> subscribe/unsubscribe|user config|list info|make a donation toward list > maintenance: > >> http://lists.ibiblio.org/mailman/listinfo/nafex > >> message archives > >> http://lists.ibiblio.org/pipermail/nafex > >> Google message archive search: > >> site: lists.ibiblio.org/pipermail/nafex [searchstring] > >> nafex list mirror sites: > >> http://groups.google.com/group/nafexlist > >> https://sites.google.com/site/nafexmailinglist > >> Avant Geared http://www.avantgeared.com > __________________ > nafex mailing list > nafex at lists.ibiblio.org > Northamerican Allied Fruit Experimenters > subscribe/unsubscribe|user config|list info|make a donation toward list > maintenance: > http://lists.ibiblio.org/mailman/listinfo/nafex > message archives > http://lists.ibiblio.org/pipermail/nafex > Google message archive search: > site: lists.ibiblio.org/pipermail/nafex [searchstring] > nafex list mirror sites: > http://groups.google.com/group/nafexlist > https://sites.google.com/site/nafexmailinglist > Avant Geared http://www.avantgeared.com > From qazingulaza at gmail.com Sat Sep 27 15:48:13 2014 From: qazingulaza at gmail.com (mIEKAL aND) Date: Sat, 27 Sep 2014 14:48:13 -0500 Subject: [nafex] Fru Dagmar Hastrup (aka Frau Dagmar Hartopp) rosa rugosa In-Reply-To: References: <051DE869-0859-45E7-8C96-B5172F0587F9@gmail.com> Message-ID: Richard, I'm wondering if planting location and available moisture is a factor. I have rosa rugosa planted in numerous locations and some definitely size up better and are more productive than others.. On Sat, Sep 27, 2014 at 2:29 PM, Ro Qu wrote: > I wonder if Mark has a strain that is more productive or if it is just his > location. > > > On Sat, Sep 27, 2014 at 2:23 PM, mIEKAL aND wrote: > >> doh, Rosa canina is dog roses of course. I have dog roses and they've >> never produced many hips and far smaller than rosa rugosa. nice >> looking foliage tho... >> >> ~mIEKAL >> >> On Sat, Sep 27, 2014 at 1:31 PM, mIEKAL aND wrote: >> > Mark: never heard of Rosa canina. How hardy are they? >> > >> > ~mIEKAL >> > >> > On Sat, Sep 27, 2014 at 9:25 AM, Mark Lee >> wrote: >> >> Fru Dagmar Hastrup has been disappointing for me, also. I would >> recommend >> >> not planting it for fruit. The best tasting for me has been seedling >> Rosa >> >> canina. This is also the species that is grown commercially in >> Scandanavia >> >> for fruit. >> >> -Mark Lee, Seattle >> >> >> >> On Sat, Sep 27, 2014 at 6:19 AM, Richard Hansen < >> richardqhansen at gmail.com> >> >> wrote: >> >> >> >>> I personally found that Scabrosa and Darts Dash produce a decent >> amount of >> >>> hips that were good quality and fairly large. Both were larger than >> >>> Jubilee, although Jubilee won hands down in the production department, >> BUT >> >>> I did not think the hips were very good quality and they had to be >> picked >> >>> at just the right time >> >>> >> >>> Sent from my iPhone >> >>> >> >>> > On Sep 25, 2014, at 6:45 PM, mIEKAL aND >> wrote: >> >>> > >> >>> > Based on photos Little John has been circulating Fru Dagmar Hastrup >> (aka >> >>> Frau Dagmar Hartopp) have substantially larger rose hips than any other >> >>> variety of rosa rugosa. Every place that I pull up online appears to >> be >> >>> out of stock. Does anyone know where I can get a plant or two? >> >>> > >> >>> > thanks. I'm planting a lot of rose hips at my vineyard as a blending >> >>> agent for medicinal wines. >> >>> > >> >>> > ~mIEKAL >> >>> > >> >>> > >> >>> > __________________ >> >>> > nafex mailing list >> >>> > nafex at lists.ibiblio.org >> >>> > Northamerican Allied Fruit Experimenters >> >>> > subscribe/unsubscribe|user config|list info|make a donation toward >> list >> >>> maintenance: >> >>> > http://lists.ibiblio.org/mailman/listinfo/nafex >> >>> > message archives >> >>> > http://lists.ibiblio.org/pipermail/nafex >> >>> > Google message archive search: >> >>> > site: lists.ibiblio.org/pipermail/nafex [searchstring] >> >>> > nafex list mirror sites: >> >>> > http://groups.google.com/group/nafexlist >> >>> > https://sites.google.com/site/nafexmailinglist >> >>> > Avant Geared http://www.avantgeared.com >> >>> __________________ >> >>> nafex mailing list >> >>> nafex at lists.ibiblio.org >> >>> Northamerican Allied Fruit Experimenters >> >>> subscribe/unsubscribe|user config|list info|make a donation toward list >> >>> maintenance: >> >>> http://lists.ibiblio.org/mailman/listinfo/nafex >> >>> message archives >> >>> http://lists.ibiblio.org/pipermail/nafex >> >>> Google message archive search: >> >>> site: lists.ibiblio.org/pipermail/nafex [searchstring] >> >>> nafex list mirror sites: >> >>> http://groups.google.com/group/nafexlist >> >>> https://sites.google.com/site/nafexmailinglist >> >>> Avant Geared http://www.avantgeared.com >> >>> >> >> __________________ >> >> nafex mailing list >> >> nafex at lists.ibiblio.org >> >> Northamerican Allied Fruit Experimenters >> >> subscribe/unsubscribe|user config|list info|make a donation toward list >> maintenance: >> >> http://lists.ibiblio.org/mailman/listinfo/nafex >> >> message archives >> >> http://lists.ibiblio.org/pipermail/nafex >> >> Google message archive search: >> >> site: lists.ibiblio.org/pipermail/nafex [searchstring] >> >> nafex list mirror sites: >> >> http://groups.google.com/group/nafexlist >> >> https://sites.google.com/site/nafexmailinglist >> >> Avant Geared http://www.avantgeared.com >> __________________ >> nafex mailing list >> nafex at lists.ibiblio.org >> Northamerican Allied Fruit Experimenters >> subscribe/unsubscribe|user config|list info|make a donation toward list >> maintenance: >> http://lists.ibiblio.org/mailman/listinfo/nafex >> message archives >> http://lists.ibiblio.org/pipermail/nafex >> Google message archive search: >> site: lists.ibiblio.org/pipermail/nafex [searchstring] >> nafex list mirror sites: >> http://groups.google.com/group/nafexlist >> https://sites.google.com/site/nafexmailinglist >> Avant Geared http://www.avantgeared.com >> > __________________ > nafex mailing list > nafex at lists.ibiblio.org > Northamerican Allied Fruit Experimenters > subscribe/unsubscribe|user config|list info|make a donation toward list maintenance: > http://lists.ibiblio.org/mailman/listinfo/nafex > message archives > http://lists.ibiblio.org/pipermail/nafex > Google message archive search: > site: lists.ibiblio.org/pipermail/nafex [searchstring] > nafex list mirror sites: > http://groups.google.com/group/nafexlist > https://sites.google.com/site/nafexmailinglist > Avant Geared http://www.avantgeared.com From richardqhansen at gmail.com Sat Sep 27 18:48:15 2014 From: richardqhansen at gmail.com (Ro Qu) Date: Sat, 27 Sep 2014 17:48:15 -0500 Subject: [nafex] Fru Dagmar Hastrup (aka Frau Dagmar Hartopp) rosa rugosa In-Reply-To: References: <051DE869-0859-45E7-8C96-B5172F0587F9@gmail.com> Message-ID: Miekal, That makes a lot of sense. Perhaps, location would make Fru Dagmar very productive. On Sat, Sep 27, 2014 at 2:48 PM, mIEKAL aND wrote: > Richard, I'm wondering if planting location and available moisture is > a factor. I have rosa rugosa planted in numerous locations and some > definitely size up better and are more productive than others.. > > On Sat, Sep 27, 2014 at 2:29 PM, Ro Qu wrote: > > I wonder if Mark has a strain that is more productive or if it is just > his > > location. > > > > > > On Sat, Sep 27, 2014 at 2:23 PM, mIEKAL aND > wrote: > > > >> doh, Rosa canina is dog roses of course. I have dog roses and they've > >> never produced many hips and far smaller than rosa rugosa. nice > >> looking foliage tho... > >> > >> ~mIEKAL > >> > >> On Sat, Sep 27, 2014 at 1:31 PM, mIEKAL aND > wrote: > >> > Mark: never heard of Rosa canina. How hardy are they? > >> > > >> > ~mIEKAL > >> > > >> > On Sat, Sep 27, 2014 at 9:25 AM, Mark Lee > >> wrote: > >> >> Fru Dagmar Hastrup has been disappointing for me, also. I would > >> recommend > >> >> not planting it for fruit. The best tasting for me has been seedling > >> Rosa > >> >> canina. This is also the species that is grown commercially in > >> Scandanavia > >> >> for fruit. > >> >> -Mark Lee, Seattle > >> >> > >> >> On Sat, Sep 27, 2014 at 6:19 AM, Richard Hansen < > >> richardqhansen at gmail.com> > >> >> wrote: > >> >> > >> >>> I personally found that Scabrosa and Darts Dash produce a decent > >> amount of > >> >>> hips that were good quality and fairly large. Both were larger than > >> >>> Jubilee, although Jubilee won hands down in the production > department, > >> BUT > >> >>> I did not think the hips were very good quality and they had to be > >> picked > >> >>> at just the right time > >> >>> > >> >>> Sent from my iPhone > >> >>> > >> >>> > On Sep 25, 2014, at 6:45 PM, mIEKAL aND > >> wrote: > >> >>> > > >> >>> > Based on photos Little John has been circulating Fru Dagmar > Hastrup > >> (aka > >> >>> Frau Dagmar Hartopp) have substantially larger rose hips than any > other > >> >>> variety of rosa rugosa. Every place that I pull up online appears > to > >> be > >> >>> out of stock. Does anyone know where I can get a plant or two? > >> >>> > > >> >>> > thanks. I'm planting a lot of rose hips at my vineyard as a > blending > >> >>> agent for medicinal wines. > >> >>> > > >> >>> > ~mIEKAL > >> >>> > > >> >>> > > >> >>> > __________________ > >> >>> > nafex mailing list > >> >>> > nafex at lists.ibiblio.org > >> >>> > Northamerican Allied Fruit Experimenters > >> >>> > subscribe/unsubscribe|user config|list info|make a donation toward > >> list > >> >>> maintenance: > >> >>> > http://lists.ibiblio.org/mailman/listinfo/nafex > >> >>> > message archives > >> >>> > http://lists.ibiblio.org/pipermail/nafex > >> >>> > Google message archive search: > >> >>> > site: lists.ibiblio.org/pipermail/nafex [searchstring] > >> >>> > nafex list mirror sites: > >> >>> > http://groups.google.com/group/nafexlist > >> >>> > https://sites.google.com/site/nafexmailinglist > >> >>> > Avant Geared http://www.avantgeared.com > >> >>> __________________ > >> >>> nafex mailing list > >> >>> nafex at lists.ibiblio.org > >> >>> Northamerican Allied Fruit Experimenters > >> >>> subscribe/unsubscribe|user config|list info|make a donation toward > list > >> >>> maintenance: > >> >>> http://lists.ibiblio.org/mailman/listinfo/nafex > >> >>> message archives > >> >>> http://lists.ibiblio.org/pipermail/nafex > >> >>> Google message archive search: > >> >>> site: lists.ibiblio.org/pipermail/nafex [searchstring] > >> >>> nafex list mirror sites: > >> >>> http://groups.google.com/group/nafexlist > >> >>> https://sites.google.com/site/nafexmailinglist > >> >>> Avant Geared http://www.avantgeared.com > >> >>> > >> >> __________________ > >> >> nafex mailing list > >> >> nafex at lists.ibiblio.org > >> >> Northamerican Allied Fruit Experimenters > >> >> subscribe/unsubscribe|user config|list info|make a donation toward > list > >> maintenance: > >> >> http://lists.ibiblio.org/mailman/listinfo/nafex > >> >> message archives > >> >> http://lists.ibiblio.org/pipermail/nafex > >> >> Google message archive search: > >> >> site: lists.ibiblio.org/pipermail/nafex [searchstring] > >> >> nafex list mirror sites: > >> >> http://groups.google.com/group/nafexlist > >> >> https://sites.google.com/site/nafexmailinglist > >> >> Avant Geared http://www.avantgeared.com > >> __________________ > >> nafex mailing list > >> nafex at lists.ibiblio.org > >> Northamerican Allied Fruit Experimenters > >> subscribe/unsubscribe|user config|list info|make a donation toward list > >> maintenance: > >> http://lists.ibiblio.org/mailman/listinfo/nafex > >> message archives > >> http://lists.ibiblio.org/pipermail/nafex > >> Google message archive search: > >> site: lists.ibiblio.org/pipermail/nafex [searchstring] > >> nafex list mirror sites: > >> http://groups.google.com/group/nafexlist > >> https://sites.google.com/site/nafexmailinglist > >> Avant Geared http://www.avantgeared.com > >> > > __________________ > > nafex mailing list > > nafex at lists.ibiblio.org > > Northamerican Allied Fruit Experimenters > > subscribe/unsubscribe|user config|list info|make a donation toward list > maintenance: > > http://lists.ibiblio.org/mailman/listinfo/nafex > > message archives > > http://lists.ibiblio.org/pipermail/nafex > > Google message archive search: > > site: lists.ibiblio.org/pipermail/nafex [searchstring] > > nafex list mirror sites: > > http://groups.google.com/group/nafexlist > > https://sites.google.com/site/nafexmailinglist > > Avant Geared http://www.avantgeared.com > __________________ > nafex mailing list > nafex at lists.ibiblio.org > Northamerican Allied Fruit Experimenters > subscribe/unsubscribe|user config|list info|make a donation toward list > maintenance: > http://lists.ibiblio.org/mailman/listinfo/nafex > message archives > http://lists.ibiblio.org/pipermail/nafex > Google message archive search: > site: lists.ibiblio.org/pipermail/nafex [searchstring] > nafex list mirror sites: > http://groups.google.com/group/nafexlist > https://sites.google.com/site/nafexmailinglist > Avant Geared http://www.avantgeared.com > From ehilborn at mebtel.net Sat Sep 27 20:26:00 2014 From: ehilborn at mebtel.net (Elizabeth Hilborn) Date: Sat, 27 Sep 2014 20:26:00 -0400 Subject: [nafex] Fru Dagmar Hastrup (aka Frau Dagmar Hartopp) rosa rugosa In-Reply-To: References: <051DE869-0859-45E7-8C96-B5172F0587F9@gmail.com> Message-ID: <54275598.8000504@mebtel.net> Comparison: Rosa canina- grown in NC with minimal irrigation - excellent volume fruit production, medium size oblong hips, not much 'fruit' per hip, but certainly present and good flavor. Fru Dagmar Hastrup- grown in Washington state west of the Cascades. Irrigation unknown. Good volume fruit production, very large round hips, fruit succulent and more flesh (fruit) per hip, excellent flavor. The Washington plants may get more water, I do not know, I was visiting the planting, but it would explain the juicy textured fruit. The fruit texture may also be explained by degree of ripeness. The birds tend to pick off my ripe R. canina, whereas the Fru Dagmar Hastrup fruits were in a more urban environment and there may have been fewer birds around. One of my challenges has been how to move beyond rosehips as a nibble treat and really figure out how to harvest the flesh from the seeds. Any tips? Betsy Hilborn 7a central NC On 9/27/2014 6:48 PM, Ro Qu wrote: > Miekal, That makes a lot of sense. Perhaps, location would make Fru Dagmar > very productive. > > On Sat, Sep 27, 2014 at 2:48 PM, mIEKAL aND wrote: > >> Richard, I'm wondering if planting location and available moisture is >> a factor. I have rosa rugosa planted in numerous locations and some >> definitely size up better and are more productive than others.. >> >> On Sat, Sep 27, 2014 at 2:29 PM, Ro Qu wrote: >>> I wonder if Mark has a strain that is more productive or if it is just >> his >>> location. >>> >>> From lfljvenaura at gmail.com Sat Sep 27 21:17:43 2014 From: lfljvenaura at gmail.com (Lawrence London) Date: Sat, 27 Sep 2014 21:17:43 -0400 Subject: [nafex] ifneb blog - another message archive mirror for the nafex list at ibiblio: http://ifneb.wordpress.com/ Message-ID: The Wordpress blogs are so nice and work so well I decided to use one as another backup mirror for the message archives for this list. I already use one to mirror the permaculture list archive. There are no posts yet so this will be the first. IFNEB BLOG International Fruit & Nut Enthusiasts & Breeders http://ifneb.wordpress.com/ message archive mirror for the nafex list at ibiblio ? Northamerican Allied Fruit Experimenters http://lists.ibiblio.org/mailman/listinfo/nafex Mailing lists: The other archive mirrors are these: http://groups.google.com/group/permaculturelist http://groups.google.com/group/nafexlist -- Lawrence F. London lfljvenaura at gmail.com http://www.avantgeared.com https://plus.google.com/+Avantgeared Skype: lawrence.f.london From lfljvenaura at gmail.com Sat Sep 27 22:24:02 2014 From: lfljvenaura at gmail.com (Lawrence London) Date: Sat, 27 Sep 2014 22:24:02 -0400 Subject: [nafex] Repost: ifneb blog - another message archive mirror for the nafex list at ibiblio: http://ifneb.wordpress.com/ Message-ID: The Wordpress blogs are so nice and work so well I decided to use one as another backup mirror for the message archives for this list. I already use one to mirror the permaculture list archive. There are no posts yet so this will be the first. IFNEB BLOG International Fruit & Nut Enthusiasts & Breeders http://ifneb.wordpress.com/ message archive mirror for the nafex list at ibiblio ? Northamerican Allied Fruit Experimenters http://lists.ibiblio.org/mailman/listinfo/nafex Mailing lists: The other archive mirrors are these: http://groups.google.com/group/permaculturelist http://groups.google.com/group/nafexlist -- Lawrence F. London lfljvenaura at gmail.com http://www.avantgeared.com https://plus.google.com/+Avantgeared Skype: lawrence.f.london From organic87 at frontiernet.net Sat Sep 27 22:33:00 2014 From: organic87 at frontiernet.net (Road's End Farm) Date: Sat, 27 Sep 2014 22:33:00 -0400 Subject: [nafex] Repost: ifneb blog - another message archive mirror for the nafex list at ibiblio: http://ifneb.wordpress.com/ In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <6015BBE6-B58A-41D2-8654-A9458FA6D4FE@frontiernet.net> On Sep 27, 2014, at 10:24 PM, Lawrence London wrote: > The Wordpress blogs are so nice and work so well I decided to use one as > another backup mirror for the message archives for this list. > I already use one to mirror the permaculture list archive. There are no > posts yet so this will be the first. > > IFNEB BLOG > International Fruit & Nut Enthusiasts & Breeders > http://ifneb.wordpress.com/ Hi Lawrence -- that page at the moment says the following: > Nothing Found > > Apologies, but no results were found. Perhaps searching will help find a related post. > A public Wordpress page does indeed seem nice and accessible without any obvious associated annoyances. Of course only somebody signed in with the password can post there -- though maybe that's not true if you enable comments? But I gather this is just meant as an archive; in which case probably you don't want comments. -- Rivka; Finger Lakes NY, Zone 6A now I think Fresh-market organic produce, small scale From lfljvenaura at gmail.com Sat Sep 27 23:37:51 2014 From: lfljvenaura at gmail.com (Lawrence London) Date: Sat, 27 Sep 2014 23:37:51 -0400 Subject: [nafex] Repost: ifneb blog - another message archive mirror for the nafex list at ibiblio: http://ifneb.wordpress.com/ In-Reply-To: <6015BBE6-B58A-41D2-8654-A9458FA6D4FE@frontiernet.net> References: <6015BBE6-B58A-41D2-8654-A9458FA6D4FE@frontiernet.net> Message-ID: On Sat, Sep 27, 2014 at 10:33 PM, Road's End Farm wrote: > > > IFNEB BLOG > > International Fruit & Nut Enthusiasts & Breeders > > http://ifneb.wordpress.com/ > > Hi Lawrence -- > > that page at the moment says the following: > > > Nothing Found > > > > Apologies, but no results were found. Perhaps searching will help find a > related post. > > > > A public Wordpress page does indeed seem nice and accessible without any > obvious associated annoyances. Of course only somebody signed in with the > password can post there -- though maybe that's not true if you enable > comments? But I gather this is just meant as an archive; in which case > probably you don't want comments. > I only want to use it as a message archive mirror but it does not work while my permaculture list does and they are set up exactly the same way. Maybe it will have other uses later after I resolve the auto archiving issue. I have been going around in circles with Google and now Wordpress for the past several days. At least most of what I have set up works. I will have to consult with the list co owner to see if he can shed any light on the archiving problem. Maybe I should try to use Blogger for this instead. Thanks for the feedback. LL -- Lawrence F. London lfljvenaura at gmail.com http://www.avantgeared.com https://plus.google.com/+Avantgeared Skype: lawrence.f.london From nafneblist at gmail.com Sun Sep 28 00:12:16 2014 From: nafneblist at gmail.com (Lawrence London) Date: Sun, 28 Sep 2014 00:12:16 -0400 Subject: [nafex] another test post, hopefully the last Message-ID: test From lfljvenaura at gmail.com Sun Sep 28 00:26:15 2014 From: lfljvenaura at gmail.com (Lawrence London) Date: Sun, 28 Sep 2014 00:26:15 -0400 Subject: [nafex] Repost: ifneb blog - another message archive mirror for the nafex list at ibiblio: http://ifneb.blogspot.com/ Message-ID: On Sat, Sep 27, 2014 at 10:33 PM, Road's End Farm wrote: > > IFNEB BLOG > > International Fruit & Nut Enthusiasts & Breeders > > http://ifneb.wordpress.com/ > Changed to: http://ifneb.blogspot.com/ > > Hi Lawrence -- > > that page at the moment says the following: > > > Nothing Found > > > > Apologies, but no results were found. Perhaps searching will help find a > related post. > > > > A public Wordpress page does indeed seem nice and accessible without any > obvious associated annoyances. Of course only somebody signed in with the > password can post there -- though maybe that's not true if you enable > comments? But I gather this is just meant as an archive; in which case > probably you don't want comments. > > > -- Rivka; Finger Lakes NY, Zone 6A now I think > Fresh-market organic produce, small scale > Success, but with Blogger, not Wordpress. Works beautifully. Blogger is a much better resource as post sizes are large and probably allows large archives of posts. So I will stick with this as the third mirror for the forum's message archives. This will be read only but I may allow comments, will see, don't have time to delete spam. ifneb http://ifneb.blogspot.com/ IFNEB BLOG International Fruit & Nut Enthusiasts & Breeders http://ifneb.blogspot.com/ Contact person is me, Lawrence London nafneblist at gmail.com -- Lawrence F. London lfljvenaura at gmail.com http://www.avantgeared.com https://plus.google.com/+Avantgeared Skype: lawrence.f.london From chandos49 at hotmail.com Sun Sep 28 19:36:24 2014 From: chandos49 at hotmail.com (david liezen) Date: Sun, 28 Sep 2014 23:36:24 +0000 Subject: [nafex] Rugosa and canina roses Message-ID: mIEKAL, I know little about shipping and planting roses in fall, but these sources may prove useful to you: Raintree in WA state has Frau Dagmar in their catalog; 1-800-391-8892. Greenmantle nursery in northern CA has 50+ types of roses, including Frau Dagmar, and other rugosas, 1 canina. You'll need to call 707-986-7504 (your dime.) She can probably steer you straight for a hip crop. forestfarm.com has Frau Dagmar, canina and eglanteria roses, $10/tube (narrow and tall shipping carton for deeper roots, I surmise.) Dave Liezen From qazingulaza at gmail.com Sun Sep 28 19:40:33 2014 From: qazingulaza at gmail.com (mIEKAL aND) Date: Sun, 28 Sep 2014 18:40:33 -0500 Subject: [nafex] Rugosa and canina roses In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <469AB173-3119-420D-89E8-EFE9BE68C5AF@gmail.com> David, thanks for the leads. what's the eglanteria roses that you mention? ~mIEKAL On Sep 28, 2014, at 6:36 PM, david liezen wrote: > mIEKAL, > I know little about shipping and planting roses in fall, but these sources may prove useful to you: > > Raintree in WA state has Frau Dagmar in their catalog; 1-800-391-8892. > > Greenmantle nursery in northern CA has 50+ types of roses, including Frau Dagmar, and other rugosas, 1 canina. You'll need to call 707-986-7504 (your dime.) She can probably steer you straight for a hip crop. > > forestfarm.com has Frau Dagmar, canina and eglanteria roses, $10/tube (narrow and tall shipping carton for deeper roots, I surmise.) > > Dave Liezen > __________________ > nafex mailing list > nafex at lists.ibiblio.org > Northamerican Allied Fruit Experimenters > subscribe/unsubscribe|user config|list info|make a donation toward list maintenance: > http://lists.ibiblio.org/mailman/listinfo/nafex > message archives > http://lists.ibiblio.org/pipermail/nafex > Google message archive search: > site: lists.ibiblio.org/pipermail/nafex [searchstring] > nafex list mirror sites: > http://groups.google.com/group/permaculturelist > http://groups.google.com/group/nafexlist > https://sites.google.com/site/nafexmailinglist > Avant Geared http://www.avantgeared.com From lfljvenaura at gmail.com Mon Sep 29 05:38:52 2014 From: lfljvenaura at gmail.com (Lawrence London) Date: Mon, 29 Sep 2014 05:38:52 -0400 Subject: [nafex] NAFEX on Facebook In-Reply-To: References: <54209FE6.8070100@att.net> <99613F4A-F937-4D85-A88C-B42044236A98@ginda.us> <20140923205033.GA24300@arcanum.localdomain.local> Message-ID: On Fri, Sep 26, 2014 at 8:37 AM, Lawrence London wrote: > On Tue, Sep 23, 2014 at 4:50 PM, Andre Pierre wrote: > >> Sites like Facebook and Google are not *just* convenient tools. They are >> big corporations that often (usually?) have questionable patterns of >> behavior. >> To use them, and to actively encourage others to use them, is to endorse >> such behaviors, or at best to turn a blind eye to them. >> >> For Facebook the list is pretty extensive and in my view damning: >> https://stallman.org/facebook.html. >> > More about this, found tonight after going down a rabbit hole in a blog to some very interesting pages: The Facebook Bully Judge an online community by how well it protects its most vulnerable users. https://medium.com/@jomc/the-facebook-bully-d7a16f6ede38 "Earlier this year, Google Plus abandoned its real-name policy as it created ?unnecessarily difficult experiences for some of our users.? This was an opportunity likewise for Facebook to revise its approach to community management. But the meeting was doomed from the start. Facebook apparently had no intention of negotiating because the policy was crafted for the sale of targeted ads not for the safety of human beings with complex identities." > > I did not realize what FB was up to until I read this news today: > <> > Ello?s thinly veiled rebuke to Facebook: ?Your social network is owned by > advertisers. Every post you share, every friend you make and every link you > follow is tracked, recorded and converted into data.? > > SAN FRANCISCO (MarketWatch) ? There has been a lot of chatter on social > media this week about a new social network called Ello, which is getting > buzz for its anti-Facebook Inc. stance. But is the start-up, which accepts > no advertising and does no data mining, ready for prime time? > > Ello has apparently been gaining such a huge influx of new users that its > servers were having problems in the past two days, despite the requirement > that you need an invitation to join. As Ello tells users who visit its > simple, clean, black-and-white site: It has a ?manifesto.? > > ?Your social network is owned by advertisers,? reads Ello?s ?about? page. > ?Every post you share, every friend you > make and every link you follow is tracked, recorded and converted into > data. Advertisers buy your data so they can show you more ads. You are the > product that?s bought and sold. ... We believe there is a better way." > > <> > -- > Lawrence F. London > lfljvenaura at gmail.com > http://www.avantgeared.com > https://plus.google.com/+Avantgeared > Skype: lawrence.f.london > -- Lawrence F. London lfljvenaura at gmail.com http://www.avantgeared.com https://plus.google.com/+Avantgeared Skype: lawrence.f.london From cgarriss at garriss.net Mon Sep 29 06:24:11 2014 From: cgarriss at garriss.net (Chris Garriss) Date: Mon, 29 Sep 2014 06:24:11 -0400 Subject: [nafex] NAFEX on Facebook In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: I've no idea the regular usage of Facebook, but I can say I do not use Facebook. Several reasons for that including security and privacy. And bandwidth needed for content with high graphic content. The Facebook page must be very active since this list seems pretty active, plus there are many more "lurkers" like me that pick up a great deal of information. The list allows me to reasonably get information on slower sources. There are quite a few of us in rural areas that have no DSL or cable internet access. Speaking to both cable and phone companies, cable says service will never be extended to my area; phone company says DSL will not be available within the next 10 years, and perhaps never. Satellite is very expensive, especially on a fixed income. Cellular is spotty in many rural areas - which includes 15 miles SE of Raleigh NC. On Sep 22, 2014 11:08 AM, "mIEKAL aND" wrote: > Curious how many folks on this mailing list are not on Facebook and > consequently not reading the NAFEX Facebook group? The facebook group > at this point is far more active than this list plus it has the > advantage that folks can easily post photos. There is also an endless > stream of growing reports and questions being posted there. > > ~mIEKAL > __________________ > nafex mailing list > nafex at lists.ibiblio.org > subscribe/unsubscribe|user config|list info|make a donation toward list > maintenance: > http://lists.ibiblio.org/mailman/listinfo/nafex > message archives > http://lists.ibiblio.org/pipermail/nafex > Google message archive search: > site: lists.ibiblio.org/pipermail/nafex [searchstring] > nafex list mirror sites: > http://groups.google.com/group/nafexlist > https://sites.google.com/site/nafexmailinglist > Avant Geared http://www.avantgeared.com > From lfljvenaura at gmail.com Mon Sep 29 06:39:40 2014 From: lfljvenaura at gmail.com (Lawrence London) Date: Mon, 29 Sep 2014 06:39:40 -0400 Subject: [nafex] NAFEX on Facebook In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On Mon, Sep 29, 2014 at 6:24 AM, Chris Garriss wrote: > I've no idea the regular usage of Facebook, but I can say I do not use > Facebook. Several reasons for that including security and privacy. And > bandwidth needed for content with high graphic content. > > The Facebook page must be very active since this list seems pretty active, > plus there are many more "lurkers" like me that pick up a great deal of > information. > > The list allows me to reasonably get information on slower sources. There > are quite a few of us in rural areas that have no DSL or cable internet > access. Perfect. This is one of the main reasons ibiblio's mailing list host has been so useful to so many for so long, dating back to slow Internet access using VT100 with ascii text interface, no GUI. The mirror sites for access to backup message archives and different ways of viewing them, i.e. formatting and inline display of attached/included images w/wo thumbnails load fast also; Google excells at this. The email-delivered discussion forums that use unformatted ascii text for the most part are fast to load, send and are low file size except for bandwidth required for file attachments. > Speaking to both cable and phone companies, cable says service > will never be extended to my area; phone company says DSL will not be > available within the next 10 years, and perhaps never. Satellite is very > expensive, especially on a fixed income. Cellular is spotty in many rural > areas - which includes 15 miles SE of Raleigh NC. > -- Lawrence F. London lfljvenaura at gmail.com http://www.avantgeared.com https://plus.google.com/+Avantgeared Skype: lawrence.f.london From chandos49 at hotmail.com Tue Sep 30 01:12:50 2014 From: chandos49 at hotmail.com (david liezen) Date: Tue, 30 Sep 2014 05:12:50 +0000 Subject: [nafex] Vanilla in an apple Message-ID: Mark Lee: Last year I had my first Macoun apples, from Feil Pioneer Fruit Stand in E. Wenatchee, WA. The vanilla was aroma was an unexpected bonus. Don't know if it generally happens across the country. I hope to get some (ought to be ripe now in these parts) locally soon and find out. Dave Liezen From sam.brungardt at state.mn.us Tue Sep 30 10:05:00 2014 From: sam.brungardt at state.mn.us (Brungardt, Sam (MPCA)) Date: Tue, 30 Sep 2014 14:05:00 +0000 Subject: [nafex] American Food Roots pawpaw page Message-ID: <1268E36B214F7D4F968B0285BF5CF3E405329143@055-CH1MPN1-033.055d.mgd.msft.net> Pawpaws: Starting to remember America's forgotten fruit http://www.americanfoodroots.com/features/farm-garden/pawpaws-starting-remember-americas-forgotten-fruit/