From jakuehn at verizon.net Wed Aug 6 10:49:58 2014 From: jakuehn at verizon.net (Jacquelyn Kuehn) Date: Wed, 06 Aug 2014 09:49:58 -0500 Subject: [nafex] fall Pomona Message-ID: Fellow fruit growers, Pomona is in need of write-ups on your fruit-growing adventures of this year. Short, long, or just some observations are welcome. Email to me or to gathering editor Jane Dennison, janedennison27 at gmail.com We're looking forward to hearing about your experiences! Jacquelyn A. Kuehn www.pennsacreskitchen.net https://www.facebook.com/pages/Penns-Acres-Kitchen/157471904281080?fref=ts wmugradio.org From debs913 at gmail.com Fri Aug 8 11:58:28 2014 From: debs913 at gmail.com (Deb Schneider) Date: Fri, 8 Aug 2014 11:58:28 -0400 Subject: [nafex] Pomona articles needed and Mother Earth Fair Message-ID: >From our hard-working Pomona editor Jackie: 1. Fellow fruit growers, it's time to put together the fall *Pomona. *We are in need of write-ups on your fruit-growing adventures of this year. Short, long, or just some observations are welcome. Email to gathering editor Jane Dennison, janedennison27 at gmail.com or Jackie Kuehn, jakuehn at verizon.net We're looking forward to hearing about your experiences! 2. NAFEX will sponsor a booth again this year at the Pennsylvania Mother Earth News Fair, September 12-14. Jackie Kuehn will be there, and could use help manning the booth from any NAFEXers who live within driving distance, or just want to make it a fun trip. You may contact her directly if you can help any of that weekend, jakuehn at verizon.net In addition, to make the fair more interactive, all exhibitors are being offered the option to provide demonstrations at their booths, and each demonstration will be listed in the Fair program guide for free. Have an idea for a demonstration you'd like to do? Demonstrations must be education-oriented, not sales-oriented, and may be ongoing throughout the weekend or presented at set times. If you'd like to do a demonstration, Jackie needs your idea by August 10. If you just want to help talk about fruit growing at the booth, great. Either way, contact her at jakuehn at verizon.net. Thanks! From dwoodard at becon.org Sat Aug 16 06:21:40 2014 From: dwoodard at becon.org (dwoodard at becon.org) Date: Sat, 16 Aug 2014 06:21:40 -0400 Subject: [nafex] [ARTICLE] Elderberry as a Medicinal Plant Message-ID: <66ce78bb3ecc49eb32e2ba0cb30def2b@becon.org> Mostly from the horticultural point of view. See Doug Woodard St. Catharines, Ontario, Canada From ehilborn at mebtel.net Sat Aug 16 09:56:09 2014 From: ehilborn at mebtel.net (Elizabeth Hilborn) Date: Sat, 16 Aug 2014 09:56:09 -0400 Subject: [nafex] [ARTICLE] Elderberry as a Medicinal Plant In-Reply-To: <66ce78bb3ecc49eb32e2ba0cb30def2b@becon.org> References: <66ce78bb3ecc49eb32e2ba0cb30def2b@becon.org> Message-ID: <53EF62F9.7030508@mebtel.net> Thank you Doug. Do people have favorite varieties for fruit quality and for ease of separating fruit from stems? Betsy Hilborn On 8/16/2014 6:21 AM, dwoodard at becon.org wrote: > Mostly from the horticultural point of view. > > See > > > Doug Woodard > St. Catharines, Ontario, Canada > > __________________ > From hblack1925 at fastmail.fm Sat Aug 16 11:54:14 2014 From: hblack1925 at fastmail.fm (Hector Black) Date: Sat, 16 Aug 2014 10:54:14 -0500 Subject: [nafex] [ARTICLE] Elderberry as a Medicinal Plant In-Reply-To: <53EF62F9.7030508@mebtel.net> References: <66ce78bb3ecc49eb32e2ba0cb30def2b@becon.org> <53EF62F9.7030508@mebtel.net> Message-ID: <92FC9855-8A88-40C6-83E3-8FE8AE5647D0@fastmail.fm> Hello Betsy, In case you're not aware of it, there is an easier way to separate the stems from the fruit. We put the whole head of fruit into the freezer in a bag. After freezing they're much easier to separate. I think I learned that from someone in Nafex. Hector Black, zone 6 middle tn On Aug 16, 2014, at 8:56 AM, Elizabeth Hilborn wrote: > Thank you Doug. > > Do people have favorite varieties for fruit quality and for ease of separating fruit from stems? > > Betsy Hilborn > > On 8/16/2014 6:21 AM, dwoodard at becon.org wrote: >> Mostly from the horticultural point of view. >> >> See >> >> >> Doug Woodard >> St. Catharines, Ontario, Canada >> >> __________________ >> > > __________________ > nafex mailing list > nafex at lists.ibiblio.org > subscribe/unsubscribe|user config|list info|make a donation toward list maintenance: > http://lists.ibiblio.org/mailman/listinfo/nafex > message archives > http://lists.ibiblio.org/pipermail/nafex > Google message archive search: > site: lists.ibiblio.org/pipermail/nafex [searchstring] > nafex list mirror sites: > http://groups.google.com/group/nafexlist > https://sites.google.com/site/nafexmailinglist > Avant Geared http://www.avantgeared.com From tanisgrif at yahoo.com Sat Aug 16 13:02:18 2014 From: tanisgrif at yahoo.com (tanis grif) Date: Sat, 16 Aug 2014 10:02:18 -0700 Subject: [nafex] report of graft success Message-ID: <1408208538.82596.YahooMailNeo@web121703.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> Pear and apple.? I promised a report but shouldn't have.? It was not a great year for comparisons.? The initial success rate wasn't as good as usual. I blame this?partly on a dry 2013 which didn't produce great scionwood, &?on the hard winter in which I collected scionwood quickly, and on doing the 2014 grafts usually at the ends of busy tiring days.? The most interesting thing was that even those grafts done later in the spring than I've ever done, if they took, they grew as well as the earlier.? Some potted seedlings were kept as a graft demo?on June 21, so days were?getting shorter by the time the scion buds grew.? But nice growth on these. Then woodchucks got into one exclusion,?and rabbits and deer got into 2 others, saving me from having to find planting sites for much of 2 years of grafts.? Has anyone seen more adventurous wildlife lately?? This?is?our third dry?summer here.? Does that make a difference, even though this isn't as dry as the previous 2?? Woodchucks climbed hardware cloth less than 16"; rabbits ate all fine stems of Amelanchiers. Also had more meadow-vole damage last winter than expected after those 2 drought summers.? What the heck did they all survive on, when the drought killed even the weeds?! Tanis Cuff, s.WI?? From tanisgrif at yahoo.com Sat Aug 16 13:12:08 2014 From: tanisgrif at yahoo.com (tanis grif) Date: Sat, 16 Aug 2014 10:12:08 -0700 Subject: [nafex] want pear seedlings? Message-ID: <1408209128.19450.YahooMailNeo@web121701.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> Well, they are maybe too old to call seedlings, but might still be OK for grafting.? They have been in pots longer than they should, waiting for me to build a new exclusion for them.? I'm sure the roots have grown into the soil under the pots.? They took rabbit damage for 2 winters.? Does anyone want to try using these?? More detailed description available, but?not until the dormant season and an attempt to move them will I know how bad the roots are. They started as seeds of Petit Muscat, open pollinated to mostly Bartlett types.??The plan was to?get a few dwarfish rootstocks by comparing them in a nursery, but the project stalled. Tanis Cuff, s.WI From ehilborn at mebtel.net Sat Aug 16 13:25:04 2014 From: ehilborn at mebtel.net (Elizabeth Hilborn) Date: Sat, 16 Aug 2014 13:25:04 -0400 Subject: [nafex] report of graft success In-Reply-To: <1408208538.82596.YahooMailNeo@web121703.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> References: <1408208538.82596.YahooMailNeo@web121703.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <53EF93F0.8020808@mebtel.net> On 8/16/2014 1:02 PM, tanis grif via nafex wrote: > Has anyone seen more adventurous wildlife lately? Yes, a lot of rabbit damage to the vegetable garden. much more than usual. The deer ate my rhubarb to the ground after leaving it alone for 4 years. I also had poor graft success, but I attributed it to the relentless fireblight strikes this spring and summer. Just as new growth would get started on the pome scions, about 1/2 - 1 inch of leafy growth, the tip would blacken, then the whole area of new growth would blacken and necrose. Very discouraging... Betsy Hilborn From cutts at cuttsreviews.com Sat Aug 16 14:33:10 2014 From: cutts at cuttsreviews.com (cutts) Date: Sat, 16 Aug 2014 12:33:10 -0600 Subject: [nafex] Oblong crab In-Reply-To: <66ce78bb3ecc49eb32e2ba0cb30def2b@becon.org> References: <66ce78bb3ecc49eb32e2ba0cb30def2b@becon.org> Message-ID: <6506e363bb4fb1d5832e4eb497ced4ab@mail.swcp.com> Has anyone ever seen a very oblong crab apple? I've never seen such a thing before but found two different instances while visiting here in the Minneapolis area. Here is a photo of one. It looks like a miniature pear. They aren't ripe yet but still have a juicy and fruity flavor right now. Just wondering if this is rare. http://www.cuttsreviews.com/images/crab.jpg --- Regards, Jay Jay Cutts Director, Cutts Graduate Reviews Lead Author, Barron's Test Prep Publications (MCAT) 505-281-0684 800-353-4898 On Aug 16 2014 4:21 AM, dwoodard at becon.org wrote: > Mostly from the horticultural point of view. > > See > > > > Doug Woodard > St. Catharines, Ontario, Canada > > __________________ > nafex mailing list > nafex at lists.ibiblio.org > subscribe/unsubscribe|user config|list info|make a donation toward > list maintenance: > http://lists.ibiblio.org/mailman/listinfo/nafex > message archives > http://lists.ibiblio.org/pipermail/nafex > Google message archive search: > site: lists.ibiblio.org/pipermail/nafex [searchstring] > nafex list mirror sites: > http://groups.google.com/group/nafexlist > https://sites.google.com/site/nafexmailinglist > Avant Geared http://www.avantgeared.com From qazingulaza at gmail.com Sat Aug 16 17:39:33 2014 From: qazingulaza at gmail.com (mIEKAL aND) Date: Sat, 16 Aug 2014 16:39:33 -0500 Subject: [nafex] [ARTICLE] Elderberry as a Medicinal Plant In-Reply-To: <53EF62F9.7030508@mebtel.net> References: <66ce78bb3ecc49eb32e2ba0cb30def2b@becon.org> <53EF62F9.7030508@mebtel.net> Message-ID: <0E6048F7-FB00-4498-A1E2-8390727F096A@gmail.com> I really get the feeling that it depends on your soil and your climate. I'm growing Nova, Johns, Adams, Haschberg, Scotia, York, Wyldewood and Bob Gordon. Accounts that I've read from others growing seems to vary widely and as for taste some times I think I can taste differences and other times not. I do know that the selected varieties are much easier to destem and work with for juice and wine because the berries are noticeably larger (for me). ~mIEKAL On Aug 16, 2014, at 8:56 AM, Elizabeth Hilborn wrote: > Thank you Doug. > > Do people have favorite varieties for fruit quality and for ease of separating fruit from stems? > > Betsy Hilborn > > On 8/16/2014 6:21 AM, dwoodard at becon.org wrote: >> Mostly from the horticultural point of view. >> >> See >> >> >> Doug Woodard >> St. Catharines, Ontario, Canada >> >> __________________ >> > > __________________ > nafex mailing list > nafex at lists.ibiblio.org > subscribe/unsubscribe|user config|list info|make a donation toward list maintenance: > http://lists.ibiblio.org/mailman/listinfo/nafex > message archives > http://lists.ibiblio.org/pipermail/nafex > Google message archive search: > site: lists.ibiblio.org/pipermail/nafex [searchstring] > nafex list mirror sites: > http://groups.google.com/group/nafexlist > https://sites.google.com/site/nafexmailinglist > Avant Geared http://www.avantgeared.com From lpittman at murraystate.edu Sat Aug 16 20:50:17 2014 From: lpittman at murraystate.edu (Louis Pittman) Date: Sat, 16 Aug 2014 19:50:17 -0500 Subject: [nafex] Oblong crab In-Reply-To: <6506e363bb4fb1d5832e4eb497ced4ab@mail.swcp.com> References: <66ce78bb3ecc49eb32e2ba0cb30def2b@becon.org> <6506e363bb4fb1d5832e4eb497ced4ab@mail.swcp.com> Message-ID: Could be Dolgo; or a seedling of it. On Sat, Aug 16, 2014 at 1:33 PM, cutts wrote: > Has anyone ever seen a very oblong crab apple? I've never seen such a > thing before but found two different instances while visiting here in the > Minneapolis area. Here is a photo of one. It looks like a miniature pear. > They aren't ripe yet but still have a juicy and fruity flavor right now. > > Just wondering if this is rare. > > http://www.cuttsreviews.com/images/crab.jpg > > --- > Regards, > > Jay > > Jay Cutts > Director, Cutts Graduate Reviews > Lead Author, Barron's Test Prep Publications (MCAT) > 505-281-0684 > 800-353-4898 > > On Aug 16 2014 4:21 AM, dwoodard at becon.org wrote: > >> Mostly from the horticultural point of view. >> >> See >> >> >> >> Doug Woodard >> St. Catharines, Ontario, Canada >> >> __________________ >> nafex mailing list >> nafex at lists.ibiblio.org >> subscribe/unsubscribe|user config|list info|make a donation toward >> list maintenance: >> http://lists.ibiblio.org/mailman/listinfo/nafex >> message archives >> http://lists.ibiblio.org/pipermail/nafex >> Google message archive search: >> site: lists.ibiblio.org/pipermail/nafex [searchstring] >> nafex list mirror sites: >> http://groups.google.com/group/nafexlist >> https://sites.google.com/site/nafexmailinglist >> Avant Geared http://www.avantgeared.com >> > > __________________ > nafex mailing list > nafex at lists.ibiblio.org > subscribe/unsubscribe|user config|list info|make a donation toward list > maintenance: > http://lists.ibiblio.org/mailman/listinfo/nafex > message archives > http://lists.ibiblio.org/pipermail/nafex > Google message archive search: > site: lists.ibiblio.org/pipermail/nafex [searchstring] > nafex list mirror sites: > http://groups.google.com/group/nafexlist > https://sites.google.com/site/nafexmailinglist > Avant Geared http://www.avantgeared.com > From hartmansfruit at msn.com Sat Aug 16 22:11:27 2014 From: hartmansfruit at msn.com (ROBERT W JUDY A) Date: Sat, 16 Aug 2014 19:11:27 -0700 Subject: [nafex] Oblong crab In-Reply-To: References: <66ce78bb3ecc49eb32e2ba0cb30def2b@becon.org><6506e363bb4fb1d5832e4eb497ced4ab@mail.swcp.com> Message-ID: Dolgo is what I thought too. Bob Western Washington -----Original Message----- From: Louis Pittman Sent: Saturday, August 16, 2014 5:50 PM To: nafex mailing list at ibiblio Subject: Re: [nafex] Oblong crab Could be Dolgo; or a seedling of it. On Sat, Aug 16, 2014 at 1:33 PM, cutts wrote: > Has anyone ever seen a very oblong crab apple? I've never seen such a > thing before but found two different instances while visiting here in the > Minneapolis area. Here is a photo of one. It looks like a miniature pear. > They aren't ripe yet but still have a juicy and fruity flavor right now. > > Just wondering if this is rare. > > http://www.cuttsreviews.com/images/crab.jpg > > --- > Regards, > > Jay > > Jay Cutts > Director, Cutts Graduate Reviews > Lead Author, Barron's Test Prep Publications (MCAT) > 505-281-0684 > 800-353-4898 > > On Aug 16 2014 4:21 AM, dwoodard at becon.org wrote: > >> Mostly from the horticultural point of view. >> >> See >> >> >> >> Doug Woodard >> St. Catharines, Ontario, Canada >> >> __________________ >> nafex mailing list >> nafex at lists.ibiblio.org >> subscribe/unsubscribe|user config|list info|make a donation toward >> list maintenance: >> http://lists.ibiblio.org/mailman/listinfo/nafex >> message archives >> http://lists.ibiblio.org/pipermail/nafex >> Google message archive search: >> site: lists.ibiblio.org/pipermail/nafex [searchstring] >> nafex list mirror sites: >> http://groups.google.com/group/nafexlist >> https://sites.google.com/site/nafexmailinglist >> Avant Geared http://www.avantgeared.com >> > > __________________ > nafex mailing list > nafex at lists.ibiblio.org > subscribe/unsubscribe|user config|list info|make a donation toward list > maintenance: > http://lists.ibiblio.org/mailman/listinfo/nafex > message archives > http://lists.ibiblio.org/pipermail/nafex > Google message archive search: > site: lists.ibiblio.org/pipermail/nafex [searchstring] > nafex list mirror sites: > http://groups.google.com/group/nafexlist > https://sites.google.com/site/nafexmailinglist > Avant Geared http://www.avantgeared.com > __________________ nafex mailing list nafex at lists.ibiblio.org subscribe/unsubscribe|user config|list info|make a donation toward list maintenance: http://lists.ibiblio.org/mailman/listinfo/nafex message archives http://lists.ibiblio.org/pipermail/nafex Google message archive search: site: lists.ibiblio.org/pipermail/nafex [searchstring] nafex list mirror sites: http://groups.google.com/group/nafexlist https://sites.google.com/site/nafexmailinglist Avant Geared http://www.avantgeared.com From alandhaigh at gmail.com Sun Aug 17 06:50:23 2014 From: alandhaigh at gmail.com (Alan Haigh) Date: Sun, 17 Aug 2014 06:50:23 -0400 Subject: [nafex] Dear repellent Message-ID: I cannot provide a more interesting repellent formula than what sounds to be burnt bone juice- although I expect by using a pressure cooker and a cast iron pan you could create something similar more easily if you don't mind having to use a powered wire brush to get the remains off the pan after burning the concentrated broth. A little vinegar in the water might free up more of the calcium and phosphorus if advice I've been given about making a more nutritious broth is correct. This might increase the repellency. I would like to see the multi-year effectiveness of the given formula backed by some kind of research, it does sound too good to be true and it doesn't sound so simple to make to me (and soup bones have become expensive if you don't happen to slaughter your own animals). If it is that long lasting, someone should create a specific recipe, patent it and make a fortune replacing fences in commercial orchards throughout the country with their miracle product. There is a pretty big market for deer repellents. What I used for years in my nursery is mostly whipped eggs mixed with water at about 2 eggs per gallon sprayed on the trees. I'd often include bars of Ivory soap, shredded and boiled in water then blended with the eggs. Now I'm using the eggs combined with Plantskyd- an expensive but long lasting product made out of the blood of slaughtered animals. The eggs allow me to use a third the recommended concentration of the expensive commercial product. Dried blood can also be used- I used to hang it from plastic bottles from trees fermenting in water, but it was just too stinky and if you bumped a bottle and got the stuff on you it was truly rank. It did work all season though and I only needed a bottle about every 10 feet or so. People sometimes just sprinkle it out of the package onto foliage. Eventually I will probably replace Plantskyd with powdered blood in my formula, adding a spreader-sticker for good measure. I just don't see it in garden centers any more. I always mix more of any repellent than I can possibly use quickly and let the stuff ferment into a toxic and foul smelling mixture, which also allows me to stretch the mixture longer. I've been sizing up fruit trees in my nursery for over two decades in major deer territory without fencing by using fencing and can vouch for their efficacy. Millorganite in cloth satchels can also work reasonably well. Ultimately, I recommend growing the trees above the browse line. Deer are helpful at eating drops and reducing insect and disease pressure. Real fruit should grow on real trees in my book. From dvidedevo at yahoo.com Sun Aug 17 20:19:29 2014 From: dvidedevo at yahoo.com (Devin Smith) Date: Sun, 17 Aug 2014 17:19:29 -0700 Subject: [nafex] cold callusing Message-ID: <1408321169.99612.YahooMailNeo@web160606.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> I just got around to cleaning the unused scionwood out of the back of my fridge (my wife is thrilled) and was surprised by a couple of things. First, I noticed that a couple sticks seemed completely unbothered by 6 months in the back of the fridge. In particular, Winter Banana seemed as good as the day it was cut. The bulk of the sticks were withered, moldy, and/or sprouting, but not Winter Banana. The other nice surprise was that a small number of apple varieties, had callused nicely. Some even seemed to have some root initials. Among those that did were Whitney and Wickson Crabs, as well as one called Windham Russet. Though I have double-worked trees growing nicely from all three, I stuck them into some rooting medium for the heck of it to see if they would root for me. I'm not sure if the shortening days will be a significant impediment to their development, but I guess I'll find out. I like to have trees on their own roots if I can swing it. I remember seeing descriptions of "cold callusing" and "warm callusing" in the "Grafter's Handbook, and kind of just wrote them off as unnecessarily elaborate procedures that I'd probably never bother with, but given the fact that many cuttings rot before they callus, it does seem to be a pretty useful little trick. Has anyone played around with it much? Any reports on what else can be successfully cold callused. Any other tricks or refinements worth knowing? -Devin From rizzolori1 at gmail.com Sun Aug 17 20:22:46 2014 From: rizzolori1 at gmail.com (Lori Rizzo) Date: Sun, 17 Aug 2014 20:22:46 -0400 Subject: [nafex] Dear repellent In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: While I was on Winter Island, Salem, MA, I came across these trees and someone there said he thought they were wild cherries. They don't seem to have the same structure as a cherry, but I tasted one and they do have similar taste and pit. I am not an orchardist or botanist, but am wondering if anyone knows what these might be. I wouldn't mind making a jelly out of them but don't want to get poisoned! I can't remember if we can attach photos on this list, but will do so and see what happens. Thanks, Lori On Sun, Aug 17, 2014 at 6:50 AM, Alan Haigh wrote: > I cannot provide a more interesting repellent formula than what sounds to > be burnt bone juice- although I expect by using a pressure cooker and a > cast iron pan you could create something similar more easily if you don't > mind having to use a powered wire brush to get the remains off the pan > after burning the concentrated broth. A little vinegar in the water > might free up more of the calcium and phosphorus if advice I've been given > about making a more nutritious broth is correct. This might increase the > repellency. > > I would like to see the multi-year effectiveness of the given formula > backed by some kind of research, it does sound too good to be true and it > doesn't sound so simple to make to me (and soup bones have become expensive > if you don't happen to slaughter your own animals). If it is that long > lasting, someone should create a specific recipe, patent it and make a > fortune replacing fences in commercial orchards throughout the country with > their miracle product. There is a pretty big market for deer repellents. > > What I used for years in my nursery is mostly whipped eggs mixed with water > at about 2 eggs per gallon sprayed on the trees. I'd often include bars of > Ivory soap, shredded and boiled in water then blended with the eggs. Now > I'm using the eggs combined with Plantskyd- an expensive but long lasting > product made out of the blood of slaughtered animals. The eggs allow me to > use a third the recommended concentration of the expensive commercial > product. > > Dried blood can also be used- I used to hang it from plastic bottles from > trees fermenting in water, but it was just too stinky and if you bumped a > bottle and got the stuff on you it was truly rank. It did work all season > though and I only needed a bottle about every 10 feet or so. People > sometimes just sprinkle it out of the package onto foliage. Eventually I > will probably replace Plantskyd with powdered blood in my formula, adding a > spreader-sticker for good measure. I just don't see it in garden centers > any more. > > I always mix more of any repellent than I can possibly use quickly and let > the stuff ferment into a toxic and foul smelling mixture, which also > allows me to stretch the mixture longer. I've been sizing up fruit trees > in my nursery for over two decades in major deer territory without fencing > by using fencing and can vouch for their efficacy. > > Millorganite in cloth satchels can also work reasonably well. > > Ultimately, I recommend growing the trees above the browse line. Deer are > helpful at eating drops and reducing insect and disease pressure. Real > fruit should grow on real trees in my book. > __________________ > nafex mailing list > nafex at lists.ibiblio.org > subscribe/unsubscribe|user config|list info|make a donation toward list > maintenance: > http://lists.ibiblio.org/mailman/listinfo/nafex > message archives > http://lists.ibiblio.org/pipermail/nafex > Google message archive search: > site: lists.ibiblio.org/pipermail/nafex [searchstring] > nafex list mirror sites: > http://groups.google.com/group/nafexlist > https://sites.google.com/site/nafexmailinglist > Avant Geared http://www.avantgeared.com > -- Lori Rizzo, BSN MBA RN *Healthcare Quality & Performance Improvement* *Behavioral Dog Training & Counseling* *Heirloom & Unusual Vegetable Propagation* *Dedham, MA* *rizzolori1 at gmail.com * -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: photo (1).JPG Type: image/jpeg Size: 135118 bytes Desc: not available URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: photo (2).JPG Type: image/jpeg Size: 133049 bytes Desc: not available URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: photo (3).JPG Type: image/jpeg Size: 130079 bytes Desc: not available URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: photo (4).JPG Type: image/jpeg Size: 195015 bytes Desc: not available URL: From nottke1 at earthlink.net Sun Aug 17 21:29:11 2014 From: nottke1 at earthlink.net (nottke1) Date: Sun, 17 Aug 2014 21:29:11 -0400 (GMT-04:00) Subject: [nafex] Dear repellent Message-ID: <26393097.1408325351761.JavaMail.root@wamui-hunyo.atl.sa.earthlink.net> See http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prunus_serotina -----Original Message----- >From: Lori Rizzo >Sent: Aug 17, 2014 8:22 PM >To: nafex mailing list at ibiblio >Subject: Re: [nafex] Dear repellent > >While I was on Winter Island, Salem, MA, I came across these trees and >someone there said he thought they were wild cherries. They don't seem to >have the same structure as a cherry, but I tasted one and they do have >similar taste and pit. > >I am not an orchardist or botanist, but am wondering if anyone knows what >these might be. I wouldn't mind making a jelly out of them but don't want >to get poisoned! I can't remember if we can attach photos on this list, >but will do so and see what happens. > >Thanks, >Lori > > >On Sun, Aug 17, 2014 at 6:50 AM, Alan Haigh wrote: > >> I cannot provide a more interesting repellent formula than what sounds to >> be burnt bone juice- although I expect by using a pressure cooker and a >> cast iron pan you could create something similar more easily if you don't >> mind having to use a powered wire brush to get the remains off the pan >> after burning the concentrated broth. A little vinegar in the water >> might free up more of the calcium and phosphorus if advice I've been given >> about making a more nutritious broth is correct. This might increase the >> repellency. >> >> I would like to see the multi-year effectiveness of the given formula >> backed by some kind of research, it does sound too good to be true and it >> doesn't sound so simple to make to me (and soup bones have become expensive >> if you don't happen to slaughter your own animals). If it is that long >> lasting, someone should create a specific recipe, patent it and make a >> fortune replacing fences in commercial orchards throughout the country with >> their miracle product. There is a pretty big market for deer repellents. >> >> What I used for years in my nursery is mostly whipped eggs mixed with water >> at about 2 eggs per gallon sprayed on the trees. I'd often include bars of >> Ivory soap, shredded and boiled in water then blended with the eggs. Now >> I'm using the eggs combined with Plantskyd- an expensive but long lasting >> product made out of the blood of slaughtered animals. The eggs allow me to >> use a third the recommended concentration of the expensive commercial >> product. >> >> Dried blood can also be used- I used to hang it from plastic bottles from >> trees fermenting in water, but it was just too stinky and if you bumped a >> bottle and got the stuff on you it was truly rank. It did work all season >> though and I only needed a bottle about every 10 feet or so. People >> sometimes just sprinkle it out of the package onto foliage. Eventually I >> will probably replace Plantskyd with powdered blood in my formula, adding a >> spreader-sticker for good measure. I just don't see it in garden centers >> any more. >> >> I always mix more of any repellent than I can possibly use quickly and let >> the stuff ferment into a toxic and foul smelling mixture, which also >> allows me to stretch the mixture longer. I've been sizing up fruit trees >> in my nursery for over two decades in major deer territory without fencing >> by using fencing and can vouch for their efficacy. >> >> Millorganite in cloth satchels can also work reasonably well. >> >> Ultimately, I recommend growing the trees above the browse line. Deer are >> helpful at eating drops and reducing insect and disease pressure. Real >> fruit should grow on real trees in my book. >> __________________ >> nafex mailing list >> nafex at lists.ibiblio.org >> subscribe/unsubscribe|user config|list info|make a donation toward list >> maintenance: >> http://lists.ibiblio.org/mailman/listinfo/nafex >> message archives >> http://lists.ibiblio.org/pipermail/nafex >> Google message archive search: >> site: lists.ibiblio.org/pipermail/nafex [searchstring] >> nafex list mirror sites: >> http://groups.google.com/group/nafexlist >> https://sites.google.com/site/nafexmailinglist >> Avant Geared http://www.avantgeared.com >> > > > >-- >Lori Rizzo, BSN MBA RN >*Healthcare Quality & Performance Improvement* >*Behavioral Dog Training & Counseling* >*Heirloom & Unusual Vegetable Propagation* >*Dedham, MA* >*rizzolori1 at gmail.com * From rizzolori1 at gmail.com Sun Aug 17 23:05:49 2014 From: rizzolori1 at gmail.com (Lori Rizzo) Date: Sun, 17 Aug 2014 23:05:49 -0400 Subject: [nafex] Dear repellent In-Reply-To: <26393097.1408325351761.JavaMail.root@wamui-hunyo.atl.sa.earthlink.net> References: <26393097.1408325351761.JavaMail.root@wamui-hunyo.atl.sa.earthlink.net> Message-ID: <16F8FD0D-B719-417F-851F-6FA0C84AD534@gmail.com> Thanks - that's what I suspected. Next question will be wine or jelly? Sent from my iPhone On Aug 17, 2014, at 9:29 PM, nottke1 wrote: > See http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prunus_serotina > > -----Original Message----- >> From: Lori Rizzo >> Sent: Aug 17, 2014 8:22 PM >> To: nafex mailing list at ibiblio >> Subject: Re: [nafex] Dear repellent >> >> While I was on Winter Island, Salem, MA, I came across these trees and >> someone there said he thought they were wild cherries. They don't seem to >> have the same structure as a cherry, but I tasted one and they do have >> similar taste and pit. >> >> I am not an orchardist or botanist, but am wondering if anyone knows what >> these might be. I wouldn't mind making a jelly out of them but don't want >> to get poisoned! I can't remember if we can attach photos on this list, >> but will do so and see what happens. >> >> Thanks, >> Lori >> >> >> On Sun, Aug 17, 2014 at 6:50 AM, Alan Haigh wrote: >> >>> I cannot provide a more interesting repellent formula than what sounds to >>> be burnt bone juice- although I expect by using a pressure cooker and a >>> cast iron pan you could create something similar more easily if you don't >>> mind having to use a powered wire brush to get the remains off the pan >>> after burning the concentrated broth. A little vinegar in the water >>> might free up more of the calcium and phosphorus if advice I've been given >>> about making a more nutritious broth is correct. This might increase the >>> repellency. >>> >>> I would like to see the multi-year effectiveness of the given formula >>> backed by some kind of research, it does sound too good to be true and it >>> doesn't sound so simple to make to me (and soup bones have become expensive >>> if you don't happen to slaughter your own animals). If it is that long >>> lasting, someone should create a specific recipe, patent it and make a >>> fortune replacing fences in commercial orchards throughout the country with >>> their miracle product. There is a pretty big market for deer repellents. >>> >>> What I used for years in my nursery is mostly whipped eggs mixed with water >>> at about 2 eggs per gallon sprayed on the trees. I'd often include bars of >>> Ivory soap, shredded and boiled in water then blended with the eggs. Now >>> I'm using the eggs combined with Plantskyd- an expensive but long lasting >>> product made out of the blood of slaughtered animals. The eggs allow me to >>> use a third the recommended concentration of the expensive commercial >>> product. >>> >>> Dried blood can also be used- I used to hang it from plastic bottles from >>> trees fermenting in water, but it was just too stinky and if you bumped a >>> bottle and got the stuff on you it was truly rank. It did work all season >>> though and I only needed a bottle about every 10 feet or so. People >>> sometimes just sprinkle it out of the package onto foliage. Eventually I >>> will probably replace Plantskyd with powdered blood in my formula, adding a >>> spreader-sticker for good measure. I just don't see it in garden centers >>> any more. >>> >>> I always mix more of any repellent than I can possibly use quickly and let >>> the stuff ferment into a toxic and foul smelling mixture, which also >>> allows me to stretch the mixture longer. I've been sizing up fruit trees >>> in my nursery for over two decades in major deer territory without fencing >>> by using fencing and can vouch for their efficacy. >>> >>> Millorganite in cloth satchels can also work reasonably well. >>> >>> Ultimately, I recommend growing the trees above the browse line. Deer are >>> helpful at eating drops and reducing insect and disease pressure. Real >>> fruit should grow on real trees in my book. >>> __________________ >>> nafex mailing list >>> nafex at lists.ibiblio.org >>> subscribe/unsubscribe|user config|list info|make a donation toward list >>> maintenance: >>> http://lists.ibiblio.org/mailman/listinfo/nafex >>> message archives >>> http://lists.ibiblio.org/pipermail/nafex >>> Google message archive search: >>> site: lists.ibiblio.org/pipermail/nafex [searchstring] >>> nafex list mirror sites: >>> http://groups.google.com/group/nafexlist >>> https://sites.google.com/site/nafexmailinglist >>> Avant Geared http://www.avantgeared.com >> >> >> >> -- >> Lori Rizzo, BSN MBA RN >> *Healthcare Quality & Performance Improvement* >> *Behavioral Dog Training & Counseling* >> *Heirloom & Unusual Vegetable Propagation* >> *Dedham, MA* >> *rizzolori1 at gmail.com * > > __________________ > nafex mailing list > nafex at lists.ibiblio.org > subscribe/unsubscribe|user config|list info|make a donation toward list maintenance: > http://lists.ibiblio.org/mailman/listinfo/nafex > message archives > http://lists.ibiblio.org/pipermail/nafex > Google message archive search: > site: lists.ibiblio.org/pipermail/nafex [searchstring] > nafex list mirror sites: > http://groups.google.com/group/nafexlist > https://sites.google.com/site/nafexmailinglist > Avant Geared http://www.avantgeared.com From Jwlehman at aol.com Mon Aug 18 07:20:45 2014 From: Jwlehman at aol.com (Jwlehman at aol.com) Date: Mon, 18 Aug 2014 07:20:45 -0400 (EDT) Subject: [nafex] Lori, Wild Black Cherry Message-ID: <9c52.5c086753.41233b8d@aol.com> Hello Lori, That certainly looks like Prunus serotina, Wild Black Cherry. They are all over Indiana. The book, "101 Trees of Indiana" by Marion T. Jackson lists it as slightly bitter but eatable. I've tasted many and that description is accurate. Due to the large seed (percentage of flesh to seed) many must be gathered to use them. I've been told they make good wine, but am not a wine maker. The leaves are very toxic to live stock and am told can kill them especially if foliage is in short supply when a tree falls and cattle over feed on them. Go ahead make some jam or wine and please report back. Jerry PS. ibiblio has cut me off more than once after I sent attached files. If you find you send messages and they don't come back nor are passed through contact the list manager to get turned back on. You will still be able to receive just can't send messages through. Send a test message and see if it comes through. Good luck! In a message dated 8/17/2014 10:50:05 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time, rizzolori1 at gmail.com writes: While I was on Winter Island, Salem, MA, I came across these trees and someone there said he thought they were wild cherries. They don't seem to have the same structure as a cherry, but I tasted one and they do have similar taste and pit. I am not an orchardist or botanist, but am wondering if anyone knows what these might be. I wouldn't mind making a jelly out of them but don't want to get poisoned! I can't remember if we can attach photos on this list, but will do so and see what happens. Thanks, Lori From dwoodard at becon.org Mon Aug 18 07:44:27 2014 From: dwoodard at becon.org (dwoodard at becon.org) Date: Mon, 18 Aug 2014 07:44:27 -0400 Subject: [nafex] Prunus serotina/black cherry for Lori In-Reply-To: <16F8FD0D-B719-417F-851F-6FA0C84AD534@gmail.com> References: <26393097.1408325351761.JavaMail.root@wamui-hunyo.atl.sa.earthlink.net> <16F8FD0D-B719-417F-851F-6FA0C84AD534@gmail.com> Message-ID: <88929b4dfd058ab5238fbeab78ce2f47@becon.org> I've heard of these cherries being used for jam and jelly, and I suspect they would be good for any use where the slight astringency is not objectionable. They used to be known here as "rum cherries" because the early settlers used them to flavour their cheap rum. They would fill a jar or crock part full of cherries, top it off with rum, and leave it as long as their willpower held out, up to maybe a couple of years. I deduce they would be good for cordials. I don't know whether they have the reported health benefits of cultivated cherries, but I would expect so. Probably a Victorio strainer or equivalent would be useful for extracting the pulp. I've read that this species is something of a weed in Central Park in New York - on clay soil. I read that they are a favoured tree of sapsuckers, and that hummingbirds and orioles raid the holes/seeps. The wood is apparently much liked for veneer, and may be more valuable than black walnut. Doug Woodard St. Catharines, Ontario, Canada On Sun, 17 Aug 2014 23:05:49 -0400, Lori Rizzo wrote: > Thanks - that's what I suspected. Next question will be wine or > jelly? > > Sent from my iPhone > > On Aug 17, 2014, at 9:29 PM, nottke1 wrote: > >> See http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prunus_serotina >> >> -----Original Message----- >>> From: Lori Rizzo >>> Sent: Aug 17, 2014 8:22 PM >>> To: nafex mailing list at ibiblio >>> Subject: Re: [nafex] Dear repellent >>> >>> While I was on Winter Island, Salem, MA, I came across these trees >>> and >>> someone there said he thought they were wild cherries. They don't >>> seem to >>> have the same structure as a cherry, but I tasted one and they do >>> have >>> similar taste and pit. >>> >>> I am not an orchardist or botanist, but am wondering if anyone >>> knows what >>> these might be. I wouldn't mind making a jelly out of them but >>> don't want >>> to get poisoned! I can't remember if we can attach photos on this >>> list, >>> but will do so and see what happens. >>> >>> Thanks, >>> Lori From tanisgrif at yahoo.com Mon Aug 18 08:59:03 2014 From: tanisgrif at yahoo.com (tanis grif) Date: Mon, 18 Aug 2014 05:59:03 -0700 Subject: [nafex] Prunus serotina/black cherry for Lori In-Reply-To: <88929b4dfd058ab5238fbeab78ce2f47@becon.org> References: <26393097.1408325351761.JavaMail.root@wamui-hunyo.atl.sa.earthlink.net> <16F8FD0D-B719-417F-851F-6FA0C84AD534@gmail.com> <88929b4dfd058ab5238fbeab78ce2f47@becon.org> Message-ID: <1408366743.14496.YahooMailNeo@web121706.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> Get the juice off the pits as soon as you can.? Put an inch or 2 of fruit in a pot and break the skins with a potato masher, then squeeze out the juice in a wine press.? Fresh juice for jelly, for wine do a shorter fermentation on the fruit than you normally would. Great fruit, some variability from tree to tree, but those with poor fruit make nicely scented firewood. ? On Monday, August 18, 2014 6:44 AM, "dwoodard at becon.org" wrote: I've heard of these cherries being used for jam and jelly, and I suspect they would be good for any use where the slight astringency is not objectionable. They used to be known here as "rum cherries" because the early settlers used them to flavour their cheap rum. They would fill a jar or crock part full of cherries, top it off with rum, and leave it as long as their willpower held out, up to maybe a couple of years. I deduce they would be good for cordials. I don't know whether they have the reported health benefits of cultivated cherries, but I would expect so. Probably a Victorio strainer or equivalent would be useful for extracting the pulp. I've read that this species is something of a weed in Central Park in New York - on clay soil. I read that they are a favoured tree of sapsuckers, and that hummingbirds and orioles raid the holes/seeps. The wood is apparently much liked for veneer, and may be more valuable than black walnut. Doug Woodard St. Catharines, Ontario, Canada From iwgarden at earthlink.net Mon Aug 18 09:34:59 2014 From: iwgarden at earthlink.net (Idell Weydemeyer) Date: Mon, 18 Aug 2014 06:34:59 -0700 Subject: [nafex] Lori, Wild Black Cherry In-Reply-To: <9c52.5c086753.41233b8d@aol.com> References: <9c52.5c086753.41233b8d@aol.com> Message-ID: <000901cfbae9$35aefb00$a10cf100$@net> Prunus serotina, Wild Black Cherry http://nativeplantwildlifegarden.com/black-cherry/ is a great wildlife plant and occurs in much of the US. There is an equivalent one in California http://nativeplantwildlifegarden.com/black-cherry that has thin sweetish skin and large pit. Native people here used it for food, for making an alcoholic drink and the pits were highly prized for food- -but like all Prunus, the seeds are poisonous unless treated with leaching and cooking, or other actions. The leaves and twigs will kill cattle, pigs, horses, etc. http://www.equineguelph.ca/pdf/facts/Prunus%20Poisoning%20June%2026_08.pdf Idell Weydemeyer Northern CA -- yes I do grow this. It is great for bees as well as other wildlife. -----Original Message----- From: nafex [mailto:nafex-bounces at lists.ibiblio.org] On Behalf Of Jwlehman--- via nafex Sent: Monday, August 18, 2014 4:21 AM To: nafex at lists.ibiblio.org Subject: [nafex] Lori, Wild Black Cherry Hello Lori, That certainly looks like Prunus serotina, Wild Black Cherry. They are all over Indiana. The book, "101 Trees of Indiana" by Marion T. Jackson lists it as slightly bitter but eatable. I've tasted many and that description is accurate. Due to the large seed (percentage of flesh to seed) many must be gathered to use them. I've been told they make good wine, but am not a wine maker. The leaves are very toxic to live stock and am told can kill them especially if foliage is in short supply when a tree falls and cattle over feed on them. Go ahead make some jam or wine and please report back. Jerry PS. ibiblio has cut me off more than once after I sent attached files. If you find you send messages and they don't come back nor are passed through contact the list manager to get turned back on. You will still be able to receive just can't send messages through. Send a test message and see if it comes through. Good luck! In a message dated 8/17/2014 10:50:05 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time, rizzolori1 at gmail.com writes: While I was on Winter Island, Salem, MA, I came across these trees and someone there said he thought they were wild cherries. They don't seem to have the same structure as a cherry, but I tasted one and they do have similar taste and pit. I am not an orchardist or botanist, but am wondering if anyone knows what these might be. I wouldn't mind making a jelly out of them but don't want to get poisoned! I can't remember if we can attach photos on this list, but will do so and see what happens. Thanks, Lori __________________ nafex mailing list nafex at lists.ibiblio.org subscribe/unsubscribe|user config|list info|make a donation toward list maintenance: http://lists.ibiblio.org/mailman/listinfo/nafex message archives http://lists.ibiblio.org/pipermail/nafex Google message archive search: site: lists.ibiblio.org/pipermail/nafex [searchstring] nafex list mirror sites: http://groups.google.com/group/nafexlist https://sites.google.com/site/nafexmailinglist Avant Geared http://www.avantgeared.com --- This email is free from viruses and malware because avast! Antivirus protection is active. http://www.avast.com From sam.brungardt at state.mn.us Mon Aug 18 11:21:46 2014 From: sam.brungardt at state.mn.us (Brungardt, Sam (MPCA)) Date: Mon, 18 Aug 2014 15:21:46 +0000 Subject: [nafex] Oblong crab In-Reply-To: <6506e363bb4fb1d5832e4eb497ced4ab@mail.swcp.com> References: <66ce78bb3ecc49eb32e2ba0cb30def2b@becon.org> <6506e363bb4fb1d5832e4eb497ced4ab@mail.swcp.com> Message-ID: <1268E36B214F7D4F968B0285BF5CF3E4052FC63D@055-CH1MPN1-031.055d.mgd.msft.net> This is the time when Dolgo crabs ripen here in the Twin Cities. "Dolgo" means "long" in Russian. This cultivar was named for the long, oval fruit. The shape does not remind me much of a pear, however. Dolgo crabs make WONDERFUL ruby-colored jelly. Also, the tree is very disease resistant. I had one in my front yard, but had to take it out because the neighbor was unhappy with the fruit that dropped on his property. -- Sam Brungardt in St. Paul, Minn. (Hardiness zone 4a) -----Original Message----- From: nafex [mailto:nafex-bounces at lists.ibiblio.org] On Behalf Of cutts Sent: Saturday, August 16, 2014 1:33 PM To: nafex mailing list at ibiblio Subject: [nafex] Oblong crab Has anyone ever seen a very oblong crab apple? I've never seen such a thing before but found two different instances while visiting here in the Minneapolis area. Here is a photo of one. It looks like a miniature pear. They aren't ripe yet but still have a juicy and fruity flavor right now. Just wondering if this is rare. http://www.cuttsreviews.com/images/crab.jpg --- Regards, Jay Jay Cutts Director, Cutts Graduate Reviews Lead Author, Barron's Test Prep Publications (MCAT) 505-281-0684 800-353-4898 On Aug 16 2014 4:21 AM, dwoodard at becon.org wrote: > Mostly from the horticultural point of view. > > See > > > > Doug Woodard > St. Catharines, Ontario, Canada > > __________________ > nafex mailing list > nafex at lists.ibiblio.org > subscribe/unsubscribe|user config|list info|make a donation toward > list maintenance: > http://lists.ibiblio.org/mailman/listinfo/nafex > message archives > http://lists.ibiblio.org/pipermail/nafex > Google message archive search: > site: lists.ibiblio.org/pipermail/nafex [searchstring] nafex list > mirror sites: > http://groups.google.com/group/nafexlist > https://sites.google.com/site/nafexmailinglist > Avant Geared http://www.avantgeared.com __________________ nafex mailing list nafex at lists.ibiblio.org subscribe/unsubscribe|user config|list info|make a donation toward list maintenance: http://lists.ibiblio.org/mailman/listinfo/nafex message archives http://lists.ibiblio.org/pipermail/nafex Google message archive search: site: lists.ibiblio.org/pipermail/nafex [searchstring] nafex list mirror sites: http://groups.google.com/group/nafexlist https://sites.google.com/site/nafexmailinglist Avant Geared http://www.avantgeared.com From cutts at cuttsreviews.com Mon Aug 18 12:05:32 2014 From: cutts at cuttsreviews.com (cutts) Date: Mon, 18 Aug 2014 10:05:32 -0600 Subject: [nafex] Oblong crab In-Reply-To: <1268E36B214F7D4F968B0285BF5CF3E4052FC63D@055-CH1MPN1-031.055d.mgd.msft.net> References: <66ce78bb3ecc49eb32e2ba0cb30def2b@becon.org> <6506e363bb4fb1d5832e4eb497ced4ab@mail.swcp.com> <1268E36B214F7D4F968B0285BF5CF3E4052FC63D@055-CH1MPN1-031.055d.mgd.msft.net> Message-ID: Sam, et al. Thanks for the comments about Dolgo. I've looked at pictures of Dolgo online and it doesn't look much like the specimen I found. If you haven't already, I wonder if you could take a look at the picture I posted. It doesn't have the redness typical of Dolgo and it is much more definitely pear shaped. The shape is so distinctive that it caught my eye immediately. Guess I'm wondering exactly what it is if not Dolgo. --- Regards, Jay Jay Cutts Director, Cutts Graduate Reviews Lead Author, Barron's Test Prep Publications (MCAT) 505-281-0684 800-353-4898 On Aug 18 2014 9:21 AM, Brungardt, Sam (MPCA) wrote: > This is the time when Dolgo crabs ripen here in the Twin Cities. > "Dolgo" means "long" in Russian. This cultivar was named for the > long, oval fruit. The shape does not remind me much of a pear, > however. Dolgo crabs make WONDERFUL ruby-colored jelly. Also, the > tree is very disease resistant. I had one in my front yard, but had > to take it out because the neighbor was unhappy with the fruit that > dropped on his property. -- Sam Brungardt in St. Paul, Minn. > (Hardiness zone 4a) > > -----Original Message----- > From: nafex [mailto:nafex-bounces at lists.ibiblio.org] On Behalf Of > cutts > Sent: Saturday, August 16, 2014 1:33 PM > To: nafex mailing list at ibiblio > Subject: [nafex] Oblong crab > > Has anyone ever seen a very oblong crab apple? I've never seen such a > thing before but found two different instances while visiting here in > the Minneapolis area. Here is a photo of one. It looks like a > miniature pear. They aren't ripe yet but still have a juicy and > fruity > flavor right now. > > Just wondering if this is rare. > > http://www.cuttsreviews.com/images/crab.jpg > > --- > Regards, > > Jay > > Jay Cutts > Director, Cutts Graduate Reviews > Lead Author, Barron's Test Prep Publications (MCAT) > 505-281-0684 > 800-353-4898 > > On Aug 16 2014 4:21 AM, dwoodard at becon.org wrote: >> Mostly from the horticultural point of view. >> >> See >> >> >> >> >> Doug Woodard >> St. Catharines, Ontario, Canada >> >> __________________ >> nafex mailing list >> nafex at lists.ibiblio.org >> subscribe/unsubscribe|user config|list info|make a donation toward >> list maintenance: >> http://lists.ibiblio.org/mailman/listinfo/nafex >> message archives >> http://lists.ibiblio.org/pipermail/nafex >> Google message archive search: >> site: lists.ibiblio.org/pipermail/nafex [searchstring] nafex list >> mirror sites: >> http://groups.google.com/group/nafexlist >> https://sites.google.com/site/nafexmailinglist >> Avant Geared http://www.avantgeared.com > > __________________ > nafex mailing list > nafex at lists.ibiblio.org > subscribe/unsubscribe|user config|list info|make a donation toward > list maintenance: > http://lists.ibiblio.org/mailman/listinfo/nafex > message archives > http://lists.ibiblio.org/pipermail/nafex > Google message archive search: > site: lists.ibiblio.org/pipermail/nafex [searchstring] nafex list > mirror sites: > http://groups.google.com/group/nafexlist > https://sites.google.com/site/nafexmailinglist > Avant Geared http://www.avantgeared.com > __________________ > nafex mailing list > nafex at lists.ibiblio.org > subscribe/unsubscribe|user config|list info|make a donation toward > list maintenance: > http://lists.ibiblio.org/mailman/listinfo/nafex > message archives > http://lists.ibiblio.org/pipermail/nafex > Google message archive search: > site: lists.ibiblio.org/pipermail/nafex [searchstring] > nafex list mirror sites: > http://groups.google.com/group/nafexlist > https://sites.google.com/site/nafexmailinglist > Avant Geared http://www.avantgeared.com From sam.brungardt at state.mn.us Mon Aug 18 12:48:52 2014 From: sam.brungardt at state.mn.us (Brungardt, Sam (MPCA)) Date: Mon, 18 Aug 2014 16:48:52 +0000 Subject: [nafex] Oblong crab In-Reply-To: References: <66ce78bb3ecc49eb32e2ba0cb30def2b@becon.org> <6506e363bb4fb1d5832e4eb497ced4ab@mail.swcp.com> <1268E36B214F7D4F968B0285BF5CF3E4052FC63D@055-CH1MPN1-031.055d.mgd.msft.net> Message-ID: <1268E36B214F7D4F968B0285BF5CF3E4052FC79C@055-CH1MPN1-031.055d.mgd.msft.net> Jay, I would not know which cultivar the fruit in your photo is. It's most likely from an ornamental crab or a rootstock. Siberian crab is often used here as a rootstock because of its hardiness. -- Sam -----Original Message----- From: nafex [mailto:nafex-bounces at lists.ibiblio.org] On Behalf Of cutts Sent: Monday, August 18, 2014 11:06 AM To: nafex mailing list at ibiblio Subject: Re: [nafex] Oblong crab Sam, et al. Thanks for the comments about Dolgo. I've looked at pictures of Dolgo online and it doesn't look much like the specimen I found. If you haven't already, I wonder if you could take a look at the picture I posted. It doesn't have the redness typical of Dolgo and it is much more definitely pear shaped. The shape is so distinctive that it caught my eye immediately. Guess I'm wondering exactly what it is if not Dolgo. --- Regards, Jay Jay Cutts Director, Cutts Graduate Reviews Lead Author, Barron's Test Prep Publications (MCAT) 505-281-0684 800-353-4898 On Aug 18 2014 9:21 AM, Brungardt, Sam (MPCA) wrote: > This is the time when Dolgo crabs ripen here in the Twin Cities. > "Dolgo" means "long" in Russian. This cultivar was named for the > long, oval fruit. The shape does not remind me much of a pear, > however. Dolgo crabs make WONDERFUL ruby-colored jelly. Also, the > tree is very disease resistant. I had one in my front yard, but had > to take it out because the neighbor was unhappy with the fruit that > dropped on his property. -- Sam Brungardt in St. Paul, Minn. > (Hardiness zone 4a) > > -----Original Message----- > From: nafex [mailto:nafex-bounces at lists.ibiblio.org] On Behalf Of > cutts > Sent: Saturday, August 16, 2014 1:33 PM > To: nafex mailing list at ibiblio > Subject: [nafex] Oblong crab > > Has anyone ever seen a very oblong crab apple? I've never seen such a > thing before but found two different instances while visiting here in > the Minneapolis area. Here is a photo of one. It looks like a > miniature pear. They aren't ripe yet but still have a juicy and fruity > flavor right now. > > Just wondering if this is rare. > > http://www.cuttsreviews.com/images/crab.jpg > > --- > Regards, > > Jay > > Jay Cutts > Director, Cutts Graduate Reviews > Lead Author, Barron's Test Prep Publications (MCAT) > 505-281-0684 > 800-353-4898 > > On Aug 16 2014 4:21 AM, dwoodard at becon.org wrote: >> Mostly from the horticultural point of view. >> >> See >> >> >> > > >> >> Doug Woodard >> St. Catharines, Ontario, Canada >> >> __________________ >> nafex mailing list >> nafex at lists.ibiblio.org >> subscribe/unsubscribe|user config|list info|make a donation toward >> list maintenance: >> http://lists.ibiblio.org/mailman/listinfo/nafex >> message archives >> http://lists.ibiblio.org/pipermail/nafex >> Google message archive search: >> site: lists.ibiblio.org/pipermail/nafex [searchstring] nafex list >> mirror sites: >> http://groups.google.com/group/nafexlist >> https://sites.google.com/site/nafexmailinglist >> Avant Geared http://www.avantgeared.com > > __________________ > nafex mailing list > nafex at lists.ibiblio.org > subscribe/unsubscribe|user config|list info|make a donation toward > list maintenance: > http://lists.ibiblio.org/mailman/listinfo/nafex > message archives > http://lists.ibiblio.org/pipermail/nafex > Google message archive search: > site: lists.ibiblio.org/pipermail/nafex [searchstring] nafex list > mirror sites: > http://groups.google.com/group/nafexlist > https://sites.google.com/site/nafexmailinglist > Avant Geared http://www.avantgeared.com __________________ nafex > mailing list nafex at lists.ibiblio.org subscribe/unsubscribe|user > config|list info|make a donation toward list maintenance: > http://lists.ibiblio.org/mailman/listinfo/nafex > message archives > http://lists.ibiblio.org/pipermail/nafex > Google message archive search: > site: lists.ibiblio.org/pipermail/nafex [searchstring] nafex list > mirror sites: > http://groups.google.com/group/nafexlist > https://sites.google.com/site/nafexmailinglist > Avant Geared http://www.avantgeared.com __________________ nafex mailing list nafex at lists.ibiblio.org subscribe/unsubscribe|user config|list info|make a donation toward list maintenance: http://lists.ibiblio.org/mailman/listinfo/nafex message archives http://lists.ibiblio.org/pipermail/nafex Google message archive search: site: lists.ibiblio.org/pipermail/nafex [searchstring] nafex list mirror sites: http://groups.google.com/group/nafexlist https://sites.google.com/site/nafexmailinglist Avant Geared http://www.avantgeared.com From rizzolori1 at gmail.com Mon Aug 18 13:51:19 2014 From: rizzolori1 at gmail.com (Lori Rizzo) Date: Mon, 18 Aug 2014 13:51:19 -0400 Subject: [nafex] Lori, Wild Black Cherry In-Reply-To: <9c52.5c086753.41233b8d@aol.com> References: <9c52.5c086753.41233b8d@aol.com> Message-ID: So, I mixed them with some wild beach rose hips that have been soaking in white wine for a couple of weeks, and a couple of apricots. I boiled em up and strained the juice. I've decided to do a couple of things: 1. Mix this with sugar and dark corn syrup to make a baste for crispy chicken or duck - I think the flavor will suit this purpose. 2. Make some jelly. There isn't enough to make wine so perhaps some other time. I need to make one more trip to Tennessee to finish my move to Kingston, MA, so will be collecting elderberries at that time if they are ready. I will be making some wine from them. I'm also in search of "beach plums" but the natives here tell me they are the wild rose hips - however, the Internet tells me they are another type of bush, so it's a bit confusing as to what they are - need to do a bit more research. Thanks, all. Lori On Mon, Aug 18, 2014 at 7:20 AM, Jwlehman--- via nafex < nafex at lists.ibiblio.org> wrote: > Hello Lori, > > That certainly looks like Prunus serotina, Wild Black Cherry. They are all > over Indiana. The book, "101 Trees of Indiana" by Marion T. Jackson lists > it as slightly bitter but eatable. I've tasted many and that description is > accurate. Due to the large seed (percentage of flesh to seed) many must be > gathered to use them. I've been told they make good wine, but am not a wine > maker. > > The leaves are very toxic to live stock and am told can kill them > especially if foliage is in short supply when a tree falls and cattle over > feed on > them. Go ahead make some jam or wine and please report back. > > Jerry > > PS. ibiblio has cut me off more than once after I sent attached files. If > you find you send messages and they don't come back nor are passed through > contact the list manager to get turned back on. You will still be able to > receive just can't send messages through. Send a test message and see if > it > comes through. Good luck! > > > In a message dated 8/17/2014 10:50:05 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time, > rizzolori1 at gmail.com writes: > > While I was on Winter Island, Salem, MA, I came across these trees and > someone there said he thought they were wild cherries. They don't seem to > have the same structure as a cherry, but I tasted one and they do have > similar taste and pit. > > I am not an orchardist or botanist, but am wondering if anyone knows what > these might be. I wouldn't mind making a jelly out of them but don't want > to get poisoned! I can't remember if we can attach photos on this list, > but will do so and see what happens. > > Thanks, > Lori > > __________________ > nafex mailing list > nafex at lists.ibiblio.org > subscribe/unsubscribe|user config|list info|make a donation toward list > maintenance: > http://lists.ibiblio.org/mailman/listinfo/nafex > message archives > http://lists.ibiblio.org/pipermail/nafex > Google message archive search: > site: lists.ibiblio.org/pipermail/nafex [searchstring] > nafex list mirror sites: > http://groups.google.com/group/nafexlist > https://sites.google.com/site/nafexmailinglist > Avant Geared http://www.avantgeared.com > -- Lori Rizzo, BSN MBA RN *Healthcare Quality & Performance Improvement* *Behavioral Dog Training & Counseling* *Heirloom & Unusual Vegetable Propagation* *Dedham, MA* *rizzolori1 at gmail.com * From hblack1925 at fastmail.fm Mon Aug 18 15:27:24 2014 From: hblack1925 at fastmail.fm (Hector Black) Date: Mon, 18 Aug 2014 14:27:24 -0500 Subject: [nafex] Prunus serotina/black cherry for Lori In-Reply-To: <1408366743.14496.YahooMailNeo@web121706.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> References: <26393097.1408325351761.JavaMail.root@wamui-hunyo.atl.sa.earthlink.net> <16F8FD0D-B719-417F-851F-6FA0C84AD534@gmail.com> <88929b4dfd058ab5238fbeab78ce2f47@becon.org> <1408366743.14496.YahooMailNeo@web121706.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <95C50DBD-4570-47C6-8D1E-B2E1C99CBB86@fastmail.fm> Friday's OK with me. Paw On Aug 18, 2014, at 7:59 AM, tanis grif via nafex wrote: > Get the juice off the pits as soon as you can. Put an inch or 2 of fruit in a pot and break the skins with a potato masher, then squeeze out the juice in a wine press. Fresh juice for jelly, for wine do a shorter fermentation on the fruit than you normally would. > > Great fruit, some variability from tree to tree, but those with poor fruit make nicely scented firewood. > > > > > On Monday, August 18, 2014 6:44 AM, "dwoodard at becon.org" wrote: > > I've heard of these cherries being used for jam and jelly, and I > suspect they would be good for any use where the slight astringency is > not objectionable. They used to be known here as "rum cherries" because > the early settlers used them to flavour their cheap rum. They would fill > a jar or crock part full of cherries, top it off with rum, and leave it > as long as their willpower held out, up to maybe a couple of years. I > deduce they would be good for cordials. > > I don't know whether they have the reported health benefits of > cultivated cherries, but I would expect so. > > Probably a Victorio strainer or equivalent would be useful for > extracting the pulp. > > I've read that this species is something of a weed in Central Park in > New York - on clay soil. I read that they are a favoured tree of > sapsuckers, and that hummingbirds and orioles raid the holes/seeps. The > wood is apparently much liked for veneer, and may be more valuable than > black walnut. > > Doug Woodard > St. Catharines, Ontario, Canada > __________________ > nafex mailing list > nafex at lists.ibiblio.org > subscribe/unsubscribe|user config|list info|make a donation toward list maintenance: > http://lists.ibiblio.org/mailman/listinfo/nafex > message archives > http://lists.ibiblio.org/pipermail/nafex > Google message archive search: > site: lists.ibiblio.org/pipermail/nafex [searchstring] > nafex list mirror sites: > http://groups.google.com/group/nafexlist > https://sites.google.com/site/nafexmailinglist > Avant Geared http://www.avantgeared.com From hblack1925 at fastmail.fm Mon Aug 18 16:17:49 2014 From: hblack1925 at fastmail.fm (Hector Black) Date: Mon, 18 Aug 2014 15:17:49 -0500 Subject: [nafex] Prunus serotina/black cherry for Lori In-Reply-To: <95C50DBD-4570-47C6-8D1E-B2E1C99CBB86@fastmail.fm> References: <26393097.1408325351761.JavaMail.root@wamui-hunyo.atl.sa.earthlink.net> <16F8FD0D-B719-417F-851F-6FA0C84AD534@gmail.com> <88929b4dfd058ab5238fbeab78ce2f47@becon.org> <1408366743.14496.YahooMailNeo@web121706.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> <95C50DBD-4570-47C6-8D1E-B2E1C99CBB86@fastmail.fm> Message-ID: Sorry, sent to wrong address. Hector On Aug 18, 2014, at 2:27 PM, Hector Black wrote: > Friday's OK with me. Paw > > > On Aug 18, 2014, at 7:59 AM, tanis grif via nafex wrote: > >> Get the juice off the pits as soon as you can. Put an inch or 2 of fruit in a pot and break the skins with a potato masher, then squeeze out the juice in a wine press. Fresh juice for jelly, for wine do a shorter fermentation on the fruit than you normally would. >> >> Great fruit, some variability from tree to tree, but those with poor fruit make nicely scented firewood. >> >> >> >> >> On Monday, August 18, 2014 6:44 AM, "dwoodard at becon.org" wrote: >> >> I've heard of these cherries being used for jam and jelly, and I >> suspect they would be good for any use where the slight astringency is >> not objectionable. They used to be known here as "rum cherries" because >> the early settlers used them to flavour their cheap rum. They would fill >> a jar or crock part full of cherries, top it off with rum, and leave it >> as long as their willpower held out, up to maybe a couple of years. I >> deduce they would be good for cordials. >> >> I don't know whether they have the reported health benefits of >> cultivated cherries, but I would expect so. >> >> Probably a Victorio strainer or equivalent would be useful for >> extracting the pulp. >> >> I've read that this species is something of a weed in Central Park in >> New York - on clay soil. I read that they are a favoured tree of >> sapsuckers, and that hummingbirds and orioles raid the holes/seeps. The >> wood is apparently much liked for veneer, and may be more valuable than >> black walnut. >> >> Doug Woodard >> St. Catharines, Ontario, Canada >> __________________ >> nafex mailing list >> nafex at lists.ibiblio.org >> subscribe/unsubscribe|user config|list info|make a donation toward list maintenance: >> http://lists.ibiblio.org/mailman/listinfo/nafex >> message archives >> http://lists.ibiblio.org/pipermail/nafex >> Google message archive search: >> site: lists.ibiblio.org/pipermail/nafex [searchstring] >> nafex list mirror sites: >> http://groups.google.com/group/nafexlist >> https://sites.google.com/site/nafexmailinglist >> Avant Geared http://www.avantgeared.com > > __________________ > nafex mailing list > nafex at lists.ibiblio.org > subscribe/unsubscribe|user config|list info|make a donation toward list maintenance: > http://lists.ibiblio.org/mailman/listinfo/nafex > message archives > http://lists.ibiblio.org/pipermail/nafex > Google message archive search: > site: lists.ibiblio.org/pipermail/nafex [searchstring] > nafex list mirror sites: > http://groups.google.com/group/nafexlist > https://sites.google.com/site/nafexmailinglist > Avant Geared http://www.avantgeared.com From rizzolori1 at gmail.com Mon Aug 18 23:01:40 2014 From: rizzolori1 at gmail.com (Lori Rizzo) Date: Mon, 18 Aug 2014 23:01:40 -0400 Subject: [nafex] Prunus serotina/black cherry for Lori In-Reply-To: <1408366743.14496.YahooMailNeo@web121706.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> References: <26393097.1408325351761.JavaMail.root@wamui-hunyo.atl.sa.earthlink.net> <16F8FD0D-B719-417F-851F-6FA0C84AD534@gmail.com> <88929b4dfd058ab5238fbeab78ce2f47@becon.org> <1408366743.14496.YahooMailNeo@web121706.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: So, I ended up making a wild cherry chili grilling baste for poultry - heated the cherries up, mashed them and got the juice out, added juice from 3 apricots and 4 cups of rose hips, 2 cups white wine (about 8 cups total), 10 ounces sweet chili sauce, 2 tbs soy sauce, 2 tbs butter, 1/4 cup lemon juice, 1/4 cup dark karo syrup, 1/4 cup honey powder, 1 cube dried garlic & 1 cube dried onion, and 1 cup sugar. Boiled it down over 2 hours and then canned it. Tried it on some chicken tonight and it was pretty good. While I was in the mood, I took the wild concord grapes I picked in upstate NY last fall that I'd frozen and never got around to, and made jelly. Hope to be back up in Pulaski / Oak Orchard for the fall salmon run and wild grape picking again. Thanks, all. Lori On Mon, Aug 18, 2014 at 8:59 AM, tanis grif via nafex < nafex at lists.ibiblio.org> wrote: > Get the juice off the pits as soon as you can. Put an inch or 2 of fruit > in a pot and break the skins with a potato masher, then squeeze out the > juice in a wine press. Fresh juice for jelly, for wine do a shorter > fermentation on the fruit than you normally would. > > Great fruit, some variability from tree to tree, but those with poor fruit > make nicely scented firewood. > > > > > On Monday, August 18, 2014 6:44 AM, "dwoodard at becon.org" < > dwoodard at becon.org> wrote: > > I've heard of these cherries being used for jam and jelly, and I > suspect they would be good for any use where the slight astringency is > not objectionable. They used to be known here as "rum cherries" because > the early settlers used them to flavour their cheap rum. They would fill > a jar or crock part full of cherries, top it off with rum, and leave it > as long as their willpower held out, up to maybe a couple of years. I > deduce they would be good for cordials. > > I don't know whether they have the reported health benefits of > cultivated cherries, but I would expect so. > > Probably a Victorio strainer or equivalent would be useful for > extracting the pulp. > > I've read that this species is something of a weed in Central Park in > New York - on clay soil. I read that they are a favoured tree of > sapsuckers, and that hummingbirds and orioles raid the holes/seeps. The > wood is apparently much liked for veneer, and may be more valuable than > black walnut. > > Doug Woodard > St. Catharines, Ontario, Canada > __________________ > nafex mailing list > nafex at lists.ibiblio.org > subscribe/unsubscribe|user config|list info|make a donation toward list > maintenance: > http://lists.ibiblio.org/mailman/listinfo/nafex > message archives > http://lists.ibiblio.org/pipermail/nafex > Google message archive search: > site: lists.ibiblio.org/pipermail/nafex [searchstring] > nafex list mirror sites: > http://groups.google.com/group/nafexlist > https://sites.google.com/site/nafexmailinglist > Avant Geared http://www.avantgeared.com > -- Lori Rizzo, BSN MBA RN *Healthcare Quality & Performance Improvement* *Behavioral Dog Training & Counseling* *Heirloom & Unusual Vegetable Propagation* *Dedham, MA* *rizzolori1 at gmail.com * From dwoodard at becon.org Tue Aug 19 08:44:05 2014 From: dwoodard at becon.org (dwoodard at becon.org) Date: Tue, 19 Aug 2014 08:44:05 -0400 Subject: [nafex] A Virginian's thoughts on home fruit growing In-Reply-To: <53F2ADDB.2010802@conev.org> References: <53F2ADDB.2010802@conev.org> Message-ID: <6df11fc10cc7fbe656d4f0ac3f958d41@becon.org> See http://conev.org/fruitbook9.pdf Quite sensible on the whole; I disagree with some of his vegetarian thoughts at the end. Doug Woodard St. Catharines, Ontario, Canada From sam.brungardt at state.mn.us Tue Aug 19 10:46:20 2014 From: sam.brungardt at state.mn.us (Brungardt, Sam (MPCA)) Date: Tue, 19 Aug 2014 14:46:20 +0000 Subject: [nafex] Scientists are creating half-sized peach trees to make picking fruit easier (Modern Farmer) Message-ID: <1268E36B214F7D4F968B0285BF5CF3E4052FCC9B@055-CH1MPN1-031.055d.mgd.msft.net> Scientists Are Creating Adorable Half-Sized Peach Trees to Make Picking Fruit Easier (http://modernfarmer.com/2014/08/scientists-working-create-adorable-half-sized-peach-trees/) Modern Farmer Peach breeders at the University of California, Davis are experimenting with a new way to make fruit farming safer: shrink the size of the trees. From organic87 at frontiernet.net Tue Aug 19 10:59:49 2014 From: organic87 at frontiernet.net (Road's End Farm) Date: Tue, 19 Aug 2014 10:59:49 -0400 Subject: [nafex] Scientists are creating half-sized peach trees to make picking fruit easier (Modern Farmer) In-Reply-To: <1268E36B214F7D4F968B0285BF5CF3E4052FCC9B@055-CH1MPN1-031.055d.mgd.msft.net> References: <1268E36B214F7D4F968B0285BF5CF3E4052FCC9B@055-CH1MPN1-031.055d.mgd.msft.net> Message-ID: Dwarf fruit trees are a new idea? And here I thought that bright idea was older than I am. (And I am getting up there.) The specific varieties might be new; and/or getting specifically peaches down to the size they want might be new, I suppose; but the article is very odd in that it seems to think that the whole idea is new. -- Rivka; Finger Lakes NY, Zone 6A now I think Fresh-market organic produce, small scale On Aug 19, 2014, at 10:46 AM, Brungardt, Sam (MPCA) wrote: > Modern Farmer > Peach breeders at the University of California, Davis are experimenting with a new way to make fruit farming safer: shrink the size of the trees. From iwgarden at earthlink.net Tue Aug 19 11:13:07 2014 From: iwgarden at earthlink.net (Idell Weydemeyer) Date: Tue, 19 Aug 2014 08:13:07 -0700 Subject: [nafex] Scientists are creating half-sized peach trees to make picking fruit easier (Modern Farmer) In-Reply-To: References: <1268E36B214F7D4F968B0285BF5CF3E4052FCC9B@055-CH1MPN1-031.055d.mgd.msft.net> Message-ID: <00b501cfbbc0$15482bc0$3fd88340$@net> I think the universities may live in a rarified world that speaks with commercial growers primarily--not the rest of us -although we pay taxes too but do not get research topics made for us. Idell weydemeyer -----Original Message----- From: nafex [mailto:nafex-bounces at lists.ibiblio.org] On Behalf Of Road's End Farm Sent: Tuesday, August 19, 2014 8:00 AM To: nafex mailing list at ibiblio Subject: Re: [nafex] Scientists are creating half-sized peach trees to make picking fruit easier (Modern Farmer) Dwarf fruit trees are a new idea? And here I thought that bright idea was older than I am. (And I am getting up there.) The specific varieties might be new; and/or getting specifically peaches down to the size they want might be new, I suppose; but the article is very odd in that it seems to think that the whole idea is new. -- Rivka; Finger Lakes NY, Zone 6A now I think Fresh-market organic produce, small scale On Aug 19, 2014, at 10:46 AM, Brungardt, Sam (MPCA) wrote: > Modern Farmer > Peach breeders at the University of California, Davis are experimenting with a new way to make fruit farming safer: shrink the size of the trees. __________________ nafex mailing list nafex at lists.ibiblio.org subscribe/unsubscribe|user config|list info|make a donation toward list maintenance: http://lists.ibiblio.org/mailman/listinfo/nafex message archives http://lists.ibiblio.org/pipermail/nafex Google message archive search: site: lists.ibiblio.org/pipermail/nafex [searchstring] nafex list mirror sites: http://groups.google.com/group/nafexlist https://sites.google.com/site/nafexmailinglist Avant Geared http://www.avantgeared.com --- This email is free from viruses and malware because avast! Antivirus protection is active. http://www.avast.com From sam.brungardt at state.mn.us Tue Aug 19 11:56:51 2014 From: sam.brungardt at state.mn.us (Brungardt, Sam (MPCA)) Date: Tue, 19 Aug 2014 15:56:51 +0000 Subject: [nafex] Scientists are creating half-sized peach trees to make picking fruit easier (Modern Farmer) In-Reply-To: <00b501cfbbc0$15482bc0$3fd88340$@net> References: <1268E36B214F7D4F968B0285BF5CF3E4052FCC9B@055-CH1MPN1-031.055d.mgd.msft.net> <00b501cfbbc0$15482bc0$3fd88340$@net> Message-ID: <1268E36B214F7D4F968B0285BF5CF3E4052FCD21@055-CH1MPN1-031.055d.mgd.msft.net> I shared this story because I thought it great that publicly funded research was concentrating on downsizing peach tree size without a dwarfing rootstock. Just because it will have a commercial application doesn't mean that the resulting cultivars will not be suitable for amateurs or hobby growers; some may be. And, the resulting cultivars could possibly serve as parents in a enthusiast's (read NAFEX member's) own breeding program. -- Sam in St. Paul -----Original Message----- From: nafex [mailto:nafex-bounces at lists.ibiblio.org] On Behalf Of Idell Weydemeyer Sent: Tuesday, August 19, 2014 10:13 AM To: 'nafex mailing list at ibiblio' Subject: Re: [nafex] Scientists are creating half-sized peach trees to make picking fruit easier (Modern Farmer) I think the universities may live in a rarified world that speaks with commercial growers primarily--not the rest of us -although we pay taxes too but do not get research topics made for us. Idell weydemeyer -----Original Message----- From: nafex [mailto:nafex-bounces at lists.ibiblio.org] On Behalf Of Road's End Farm Sent: Tuesday, August 19, 2014 8:00 AM To: nafex mailing list at ibiblio Subject: Re: [nafex] Scientists are creating half-sized peach trees to make picking fruit easier (Modern Farmer) Dwarf fruit trees are a new idea? And here I thought that bright idea was older than I am. (And I am getting up there.) The specific varieties might be new; and/or getting specifically peaches down to the size they want might be new, I suppose; but the article is very odd in that it seems to think that the whole idea is new. -- Rivka; Finger Lakes NY, Zone 6A now I think Fresh-market organic produce, small scale On Aug 19, 2014, at 10:46 AM, Brungardt, Sam (MPCA) wrote: > Modern Farmer > Peach breeders at the University of California, Davis are > experimenting with a new way to make fruit farming safer: shrink the size of the trees. __________________ nafex mailing list nafex at lists.ibiblio.org subscribe/unsubscribe|user config|list info|make a donation toward list maintenance: http://lists.ibiblio.org/mailman/listinfo/nafex message archives http://lists.ibiblio.org/pipermail/nafex Google message archive search: site: lists.ibiblio.org/pipermail/nafex [searchstring] nafex list mirror sites: http://groups.google.com/group/nafexlist https://sites.google.com/site/nafexmailinglist Avant Geared http://www.avantgeared.com --- This email is free from viruses and malware because avast! Antivirus protection is active. http://www.avast.com __________________ nafex mailing list nafex at lists.ibiblio.org subscribe/unsubscribe|user config|list info|make a donation toward list maintenance: http://lists.ibiblio.org/mailman/listinfo/nafex message archives http://lists.ibiblio.org/pipermail/nafex Google message archive search: site: lists.ibiblio.org/pipermail/nafex [searchstring] nafex list mirror sites: http://groups.google.com/group/nafexlist https://sites.google.com/site/nafexmailinglist Avant Geared http://www.avantgeared.com From hartmansfruit at msn.com Tue Aug 19 12:24:09 2014 From: hartmansfruit at msn.com (ROBERT W JUDY A) Date: Tue, 19 Aug 2014 09:24:09 -0700 Subject: [nafex] Scientists are creating half-sized peach treesto make picking fruit easier (Modern Farmer) In-Reply-To: <1268E36B214F7D4F968B0285BF5CF3E4052FCD21@055-CH1MPN1-031.055d.mgd.msft.net> References: <1268E36B214F7D4F968B0285BF5CF3E4052FCC9B@055-CH1MPN1-031.055d.mgd.msft.net><00b501cfbbc0$15482bc0$3fd88340$@net> <1268E36B214F7D4F968B0285BF5CF3E4052FCD21@055-CH1MPN1-031.055d.mgd.msft.net> Message-ID: I think Idell was referring to the fact that a lot of the University produced new varieties of whatever are like the club apples. There is no place where an individual can buy a club apple tree. You have to be special licensed and grow many trees with fruit for the market only. No one else can get their hands onto a club apple. It could be the same way for these new peach trees. Bob Puyallup -----Original Message----- From: Brungardt, Sam (MPCA) Sent: Tuesday, August 19, 2014 8:56 AM To: nafex mailing list at ibiblio Subject: Re: [nafex] Scientists are creating half-sized peach treesto make picking fruit easier (Modern Farmer) I shared this story because I thought it great that publicly funded research was concentrating on downsizing peach tree size without a dwarfing rootstock. Just because it will have a commercial application doesn't mean that the resulting cultivars will not be suitable for amateurs or hobby growers; some may be. And, the resulting cultivars could possibly serve as parents in a enthusiast's (read NAFEX member's) own breeding program. -- Sam in St. Paul -----Original Message----- From: nafex [mailto:nafex-bounces at lists.ibiblio.org] On Behalf Of Idell Weydemeyer Sent: Tuesday, August 19, 2014 10:13 AM To: 'nafex mailing list at ibiblio' Subject: Re: [nafex] Scientists are creating half-sized peach trees to make picking fruit easier (Modern Farmer) I think the universities may live in a rarified world that speaks with commercial growers primarily--not the rest of us -although we pay taxes too but do not get research topics made for us. Idell weydemeyer -----Original Message----- From: nafex [mailto:nafex-bounces at lists.ibiblio.org] On Behalf Of Road's End Farm Sent: Tuesday, August 19, 2014 8:00 AM To: nafex mailing list at ibiblio Subject: Re: [nafex] Scientists are creating half-sized peach trees to make picking fruit easier (Modern Farmer) Dwarf fruit trees are a new idea? And here I thought that bright idea was older than I am. (And I am getting up there.) The specific varieties might be new; and/or getting specifically peaches down to the size they want might be new, I suppose; but the article is very odd in that it seems to think that the whole idea is new. -- Rivka; Finger Lakes NY, Zone 6A now I think Fresh-market organic produce, small scale On Aug 19, 2014, at 10:46 AM, Brungardt, Sam (MPCA) wrote: > Modern Farmer > Peach breeders at the University of California, Davis are > experimenting with a new way to make fruit farming safer: shrink the size of the trees. __________________ nafex mailing list nafex at lists.ibiblio.org subscribe/unsubscribe|user config|list info|make a donation toward list maintenance: http://lists.ibiblio.org/mailman/listinfo/nafex message archives http://lists.ibiblio.org/pipermail/nafex Google message archive search: site: lists.ibiblio.org/pipermail/nafex [searchstring] nafex list mirror sites: http://groups.google.com/group/nafexlist https://sites.google.com/site/nafexmailinglist Avant Geared http://www.avantgeared.com --- This email is free from viruses and malware because avast! Antivirus protection is active. http://www.avast.com __________________ nafex mailing list nafex at lists.ibiblio.org subscribe/unsubscribe|user config|list info|make a donation toward list maintenance: http://lists.ibiblio.org/mailman/listinfo/nafex message archives http://lists.ibiblio.org/pipermail/nafex Google message archive search: site: lists.ibiblio.org/pipermail/nafex [searchstring] nafex list mirror sites: http://groups.google.com/group/nafexlist https://sites.google.com/site/nafexmailinglist Avant Geared http://www.avantgeared.com __________________ nafex mailing list nafex at lists.ibiblio.org subscribe/unsubscribe|user config|list info|make a donation toward list maintenance: http://lists.ibiblio.org/mailman/listinfo/nafex message archives http://lists.ibiblio.org/pipermail/nafex Google message archive search: site: lists.ibiblio.org/pipermail/nafex [searchstring] nafex list mirror sites: http://groups.google.com/group/nafexlist https://sites.google.com/site/nafexmailinglist Avant Geared http://www.avantgeared.com From sam.brungardt at state.mn.us Tue Aug 19 12:37:06 2014 From: sam.brungardt at state.mn.us (Brungardt, Sam (MPCA)) Date: Tue, 19 Aug 2014 16:37:06 +0000 Subject: [nafex] Scientists are creating half-sized peach treesto make picking fruit easier (Modern Farmer) In-Reply-To: References: <1268E36B214F7D4F968B0285BF5CF3E4052FCC9B@055-CH1MPN1-031.055d.mgd.msft.net><00b501cfbbc0$15482bc0$3fd88340$@net> <1268E36B214F7D4F968B0285BF5CF3E4052FCD21@055-CH1MPN1-031.055d.mgd.msft.net> Message-ID: <1268E36B214F7D4F968B0285BF5CF3E4052FCDE6@055-CH1MPN1-031.055d.mgd.msft.net> Good point, Bob and Idell. I don't have a decent solution for selling the trees as are the club apples. Maybe a night visit to one of those compact tree orchards at full bloom to collect pollen? Still, I'd like to think some of the selections might end up being propagated and sold by the nursery industry. Seems like no rootstock is very successful for peaches, and this development (compact trees on their own roots, if that's what it is) would fill both commercial and amateur growers' needs. -- Sam -----Original Message----- From: nafex [mailto:nafex-bounces at lists.ibiblio.org] On Behalf Of ROBERT W JUDY A Sent: Tuesday, August 19, 2014 11:24 AM To: nafex mailing list at ibiblio Subject: Re: [nafex] Scientists are creating half-sized peach treesto make picking fruit easier (Modern Farmer) I think Idell was referring to the fact that a lot of the University produced new varieties of whatever are like the club apples. There is no place where an individual can buy a club apple tree. You have to be special licensed and grow many trees with fruit for the market only. No one else can get their hands onto a club apple. It could be the same way for these new peach trees. Bob Puyallup -----Original Message----- From: Brungardt, Sam (MPCA) Sent: Tuesday, August 19, 2014 8:56 AM To: nafex mailing list at ibiblio Subject: Re: [nafex] Scientists are creating half-sized peach treesto make picking fruit easier (Modern Farmer) I shared this story because I thought it great that publicly funded research was concentrating on downsizing peach tree size without a dwarfing rootstock. Just because it will have a commercial application doesn't mean that the resulting cultivars will not be suitable for amateurs or hobby growers; some may be. And, the resulting cultivars could possibly serve as parents in a enthusiast's (read NAFEX member's) own breeding program. -- Sam in St. Paul -----Original Message----- From: nafex [mailto:nafex-bounces at lists.ibiblio.org] On Behalf Of Idell Weydemeyer Sent: Tuesday, August 19, 2014 10:13 AM To: 'nafex mailing list at ibiblio' Subject: Re: [nafex] Scientists are creating half-sized peach trees to make picking fruit easier (Modern Farmer) I think the universities may live in a rarified world that speaks with commercial growers primarily--not the rest of us -although we pay taxes too but do not get research topics made for us. Idell weydemeyer -----Original Message----- From: nafex [mailto:nafex-bounces at lists.ibiblio.org] On Behalf Of Road's End Farm Sent: Tuesday, August 19, 2014 8:00 AM To: nafex mailing list at ibiblio Subject: Re: [nafex] Scientists are creating half-sized peach trees to make picking fruit easier (Modern Farmer) Dwarf fruit trees are a new idea? And here I thought that bright idea was older than I am. (And I am getting up there.) The specific varieties might be new; and/or getting specifically peaches down to the size they want might be new, I suppose; but the article is very odd in that it seems to think that the whole idea is new. -- Rivka; Finger Lakes NY, Zone 6A now I think Fresh-market organic produce, small scale On Aug 19, 2014, at 10:46 AM, Brungardt, Sam (MPCA) wrote: > Modern Farmer > Peach breeders at the University of California, Davis are > experimenting with a new way to make fruit farming safer: shrink the size of the trees. __________________ nafex mailing list nafex at lists.ibiblio.org subscribe/unsubscribe|user config|list info|make a donation toward list maintenance: http://lists.ibiblio.org/mailman/listinfo/nafex message archives http://lists.ibiblio.org/pipermail/nafex Google message archive search: site: lists.ibiblio.org/pipermail/nafex [searchstring] nafex list mirror sites: http://groups.google.com/group/nafexlist https://sites.google.com/site/nafexmailinglist Avant Geared http://www.avantgeared.com --- This email is free from viruses and malware because avast! Antivirus protection is active. http://www.avast.com __________________ nafex mailing list nafex at lists.ibiblio.org subscribe/unsubscribe|user config|list info|make a donation toward list maintenance: http://lists.ibiblio.org/mailman/listinfo/nafex message archives http://lists.ibiblio.org/pipermail/nafex Google message archive search: site: lists.ibiblio.org/pipermail/nafex [searchstring] nafex list mirror sites: http://groups.google.com/group/nafexlist https://sites.google.com/site/nafexmailinglist Avant Geared http://www.avantgeared.com __________________ nafex mailing list nafex at lists.ibiblio.org subscribe/unsubscribe|user config|list info|make a donation toward list maintenance: http://lists.ibiblio.org/mailman/listinfo/nafex message archives http://lists.ibiblio.org/pipermail/nafex Google message archive search: site: lists.ibiblio.org/pipermail/nafex [searchstring] nafex list mirror sites: http://groups.google.com/group/nafexlist https://sites.google.com/site/nafexmailinglist Avant Geared http://www.avantgeared.com __________________ nafex mailing list nafex at lists.ibiblio.org subscribe/unsubscribe|user config|list info|make a donation toward list maintenance: http://lists.ibiblio.org/mailman/listinfo/nafex message archives http://lists.ibiblio.org/pipermail/nafex Google message archive search: site: lists.ibiblio.org/pipermail/nafex [searchstring] nafex list mirror sites: http://groups.google.com/group/nafexlist https://sites.google.com/site/nafexmailinglist Avant Geared http://www.avantgeared.com From goatdoc at ctitech.com Tue Aug 19 14:49:57 2014 From: goatdoc at ctitech.com (R. Keith Etheridge) Date: Tue, 19 Aug 2014 13:49:57 -0500 Subject: [nafex] goats w donkey for pecan orchard Message-ID: For several years I had a guard donkey w pygmy goats in my pecan orchard. The goats are gone due to old age and want to get some more.Will the donkey accept a new batch or will I have to let them get used to each other across the fence for a time? Keith From gtolle0709 at wowway.com Tue Aug 19 15:15:31 2014 From: gtolle0709 at wowway.com (Geoffrey Tolle) Date: Tue, 19 Aug 2014 15:15:31 -0400 Subject: [nafex] Scientists are creating half-sized peach treesto make picking fruit easier (Modern Farmer) In-Reply-To: <1268E36B214F7D4F968B0285BF5CF3E4052FCDE6@055-CH1MPN1-031.055d.mgd.msft.net> References: <1268E36B214F7D4F968B0285BF5CF3E4052FCC9B@055-CH1MPN1-031.055d.mgd.msft.net><00b501cfbbc0$15482bc0$3fd88340$@net> <1268E36B214F7D4F968B0285BF5CF3E4052FCD21@055-CH1MPN1-031.055d.mgd.msft.net> <1268E36B214F7D4F968B0285BF5CF3E4052FCDE6@055-CH1MPN1-031.055d.mgd.msft.net> Message-ID: Another point would be that our dwarfing rootstock is very limited genetically. There are many fruit varieties but much more limited rootstock varieties. If (when) something shows up to take out one rootstock, then it could take years for the industry to recover from the loss of that rootstock. Having another source of dwarf trees only makes good ecological sense. Geoffrey Tolle On Aug 19, 2014, at 12:37 PM, Brungardt, Sam (MPCA) wrote: > Good point, Bob and Idell. I don't have a decent solution for selling the trees as are the club apples. Maybe a night visit to one of those compact tree orchards at full bloom to collect pollen? > > Still, I'd like to think some of the selections might end up being propagated and sold by the nursery industry. Seems like no rootstock is very successful for peaches, and this development (compact trees on their own roots, if that's what it is) would fill both commercial and amateur growers' needs. -- Sam > > -----Original Message----- > From: nafex [mailto:nafex-bounces at lists.ibiblio.org] On Behalf Of ROBERT W JUDY A > Sent: Tuesday, August 19, 2014 11:24 AM > To: nafex mailing list at ibiblio > Subject: Re: [nafex] Scientists are creating half-sized peach treesto make picking fruit easier (Modern Farmer) > > I think Idell was referring to the fact that a lot of the University produced new varieties of whatever are like the club apples. There is no place where an individual can buy a club apple tree. You have to be special licensed and grow many trees with fruit for the market only. No one else can get their hands onto a club apple. It could be the same way for these new peach trees. > Bob > Puyallup > > -----Original Message----- > From: Brungardt, Sam (MPCA) > Sent: Tuesday, August 19, 2014 8:56 AM > To: nafex mailing list at ibiblio > Subject: Re: [nafex] Scientists are creating half-sized peach treesto make picking fruit easier (Modern Farmer) > > I shared this story because I thought it great that publicly funded research was concentrating on downsizing peach tree size without a dwarfing rootstock. Just because it will have a commercial application doesn't mean that the resulting cultivars will not be suitable for amateurs or hobby growers; some may be. And, the resulting cultivars could possibly serve as parents in a enthusiast's (read NAFEX member's) own breeding program. -- Sam in St. Paul > > -----Original Message----- > From: nafex [mailto:nafex-bounces at lists.ibiblio.org] On Behalf Of Idell Weydemeyer > Sent: Tuesday, August 19, 2014 10:13 AM > To: 'nafex mailing list at ibiblio' > Subject: Re: [nafex] Scientists are creating half-sized peach trees to make picking fruit easier (Modern Farmer) > > I think the universities may live in a rarified world that speaks with commercial growers primarily--not the rest of us -although we pay taxes too but do not get research topics made for us. > > Idell weydemeyer > > -----Original Message----- > From: nafex [mailto:nafex-bounces at lists.ibiblio.org] On Behalf Of Road's End Farm > Sent: Tuesday, August 19, 2014 8:00 AM > To: nafex mailing list at ibiblio > Subject: Re: [nafex] Scientists are creating half-sized peach trees to make picking fruit easier (Modern Farmer) > > Dwarf fruit trees are a new idea? > > And here I thought that bright idea was older than I am. (And I am getting up there.) > > The specific varieties might be new; and/or getting specifically peaches down to the size they want might be new, I suppose; but the article is very odd in that it seems to think that the whole idea is new. > > -- Rivka; Finger Lakes NY, Zone 6A now I think Fresh-market organic produce, small scale > > > On Aug 19, 2014, at 10:46 AM, Brungardt, Sam (MPCA) wrote: > >> Modern Farmer >> Peach breeders at the University of California, Davis are >> experimenting > with a new way to make fruit farming safer: shrink the size of the trees. > > > > > > > __________________ > nafex mailing list > nafex at lists.ibiblio.org > subscribe/unsubscribe|user config|list info|make a donation toward list > maintenance: > http://lists.ibiblio.org/mailman/listinfo/nafex > message archives > http://lists.ibiblio.org/pipermail/nafex > Google message archive search: > site: lists.ibiblio.org/pipermail/nafex [searchstring] nafex list mirror > sites: > http://groups.google.com/group/nafexlist > https://sites.google.com/site/nafexmailinglist > Avant Geared http://www.avantgeared.com > > > --- > This email is free from viruses and malware because avast! Antivirus > protection is active. > http://www.avast.com > > __________________ > nafex mailing list > nafex at lists.ibiblio.org > subscribe/unsubscribe|user config|list info|make a donation toward list > maintenance: > http://lists.ibiblio.org/mailman/listinfo/nafex > message archives > http://lists.ibiblio.org/pipermail/nafex > Google message archive search: > site: lists.ibiblio.org/pipermail/nafex [searchstring] nafex list mirror > sites: > http://groups.google.com/group/nafexlist > https://sites.google.com/site/nafexmailinglist > Avant Geared http://www.avantgeared.com > __________________ > nafex mailing list > nafex at lists.ibiblio.org > subscribe/unsubscribe|user config|list info|make a donation toward list > maintenance: > http://lists.ibiblio.org/mailman/listinfo/nafex > message archives > http://lists.ibiblio.org/pipermail/nafex > Google message archive search: > site: lists.ibiblio.org/pipermail/nafex [searchstring] > nafex list mirror sites: > http://groups.google.com/group/nafexlist > https://sites.google.com/site/nafexmailinglist > Avant Geared http://www.avantgeared.com > > __________________ > nafex mailing list > nafex at lists.ibiblio.org > subscribe/unsubscribe|user config|list info|make a donation toward list maintenance: > http://lists.ibiblio.org/mailman/listinfo/nafex > message archives > http://lists.ibiblio.org/pipermail/nafex > Google message archive search: > site: lists.ibiblio.org/pipermail/nafex [searchstring] > nafex list mirror sites: > http://groups.google.com/group/nafexlist > https://sites.google.com/site/nafexmailinglist > Avant Geared http://www.avantgeared.com > __________________ > nafex mailing list > nafex at lists.ibiblio.org > subscribe/unsubscribe|user config|list info|make a donation toward list maintenance: > http://lists.ibiblio.org/mailman/listinfo/nafex > message archives > http://lists.ibiblio.org/pipermail/nafex > Google message archive search: > site: lists.ibiblio.org/pipermail/nafex [searchstring] > nafex list mirror sites: > http://groups.google.com/group/nafexlist > https://sites.google.com/site/nafexmailinglist > Avant Geared http://www.avantgeared.com From naomi at oznayim.us Tue Aug 19 15:43:19 2014 From: naomi at oznayim.us (Naomi Counides) Date: Tue, 19 Aug 2014 13:43:19 -0600 Subject: [nafex] goats w donkey for pecan orchard In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <03af01cfbbe5$d609dff0$821d9fd0$@oznayim.us> Is she a she? Shes are often easier to reason with. They are the leaders, guardians and teachers of the herd. Anyway If you introduce them and explain that they are yours and you like them and want to keep them and she should not mess with them, it should work. Mostly does. The donkeys age is actually in your favor on this. Maturity. Naomi -----Original Message----- From: nafex [mailto:nafex-bounces at lists.ibiblio.org] On Behalf Of R. Keith Etheridge Sent: Tuesday, August 19, 2014 12:50 PM To: nafex at lists.ibiblio.org Subject: [nafex] goats w donkey for pecan orchard For several years I had a guard donkey w pygmy goats in my pecan orchard. The goats are gone due to old age and want to get some more.Will the donkey accept a new batch or will I have to let them get used to each other across the fence for a time? Keith __________________ nafex mailing list nafex at lists.ibiblio.org subscribe/unsubscribe|user config|list info|make a donation toward list maintenance: http://lists.ibiblio.org/mailman/listinfo/nafex message archives http://lists.ibiblio.org/pipermail/nafex Google message archive search: site: lists.ibiblio.org/pipermail/nafex [searchstring] nafex list mirror sites: http://groups.google.com/group/nafexlist https://sites.google.com/site/nafexmailinglist Avant Geared http://www.avantgeared.com From organic87 at frontiernet.net Tue Aug 19 16:55:03 2014 From: organic87 at frontiernet.net (Road's End Farm) Date: Tue, 19 Aug 2014 16:55:03 -0400 Subject: [nafex] Scientists are creating half-sized peach treesto make picking fruit easier (Modern Farmer) In-Reply-To: References: <1268E36B214F7D4F968B0285BF5CF3E4052FCC9B@055-CH1MPN1-031.055d.mgd.msft.net><00b501cfbbc0$15482bc0$3fd88340$@net> <1268E36B214F7D4F968B0285BF5CF3E4052FCD21@055-CH1MPN1-031.055d.mgd.msft.net> <1268E36B214F7D4F968B0285BF5CF3E4052FCDE6@055-CH1MPN1-031.055d.mgd.msft.net> Message-ID: Oh, yes; I can definitely think of good reasons for people to be working on this. I was just puzzled by the article's being so written as to give the impression that they think dwarf fruit trees, in general, are a new idea. I very much doubt that the researchers themselves think this; it's most likely a problem in the reporting. -- Rivka; Finger Lakes NY, Zone 6A now I think Fresh-market organic produce, small scale On Aug 19, 2014, at 3:15 PM, Geoffrey Tolle wrote: > Another point would be that our dwarfing rootstock is very limited genetically. There are many fruit varieties but much more limited rootstock varieties. If (when) something shows up to take out one rootstock, then it could take years for the industry to recover from the loss of that rootstock. Having another source of dwarf trees only makes good ecological sense. > > Geoffrey Tolle > > On Aug 19, 2014, at 12:37 PM, Brungardt, Sam (MPCA) wrote: > >> Good point, Bob and Idell. I don't have a decent solution for selling the trees as are the club apples. Maybe a night visit to one of those compact tree orchards at full bloom to collect pollen? >> >> Still, I'd like to think some of the selections might end up being propagated and sold by the nursery industry. Seems like no rootstock is very successful for peaches, and this development (compact trees on their own roots, if that's what it is) would fill both commercial and amateur growers' needs. -- Sam > From goatdoc at ctitech.com Tue Aug 19 19:50:36 2014 From: goatdoc at ctitech.com (R. Keith Etheridge) Date: Tue, 19 Aug 2014 18:50:36 -0500 Subject: [nafex] goats w donkey for pecan orchard In-Reply-To: <03af01cfbbe5$d609dff0$821d9fd0$@oznayim.us> References: <03af01cfbbe5$d609dff0$821d9fd0$@oznayim.us> Message-ID: <2B4AF8D8091649CCB0E6717752841453@keith2> Thanks ,It's a gelding.I don?t live at the location.I have a smaller chain link enclosure.Think will fix place goats can escape to if he chases them. I don't think I ever have had losses to coyotes but neighbors have goats with their cattle as they thought they had loss of calves. Keith -----Original Message----- From: Naomi Counides Sent: Tuesday, August 19, 2014 2:43 PM To: 'nafex mailing list at ibiblio' Subject: Re: [nafex] goats w donkey for pecan orchard Is she a she? Shes are often easier to reason with. They are the leaders, guardians and teachers of the herd. Anyway If you introduce them and explain that they are yours and you like them and want to keep them and she should not mess with them, it should work. Mostly does. The donkeys age is actually in your favor on this. Maturity. Naomi -----Original Message----- From: nafex [mailto:nafex-bounces at lists.ibiblio.org] On Behalf Of R. Keith Etheridge Sent: Tuesday, August 19, 2014 12:50 PM To: nafex at lists.ibiblio.org Subject: [nafex] goats w donkey for pecan orchard For several years I had a guard donkey w pygmy goats in my pecan orchard. The goats are gone due to old age and want to get some more.Will the donkey accept a new batch or will I have to let them get used to each other across the fence for a time? Keith __________________ nafex mailing list nafex at lists.ibiblio.org subscribe/unsubscribe|user config|list info|make a donation toward list maintenance: http://lists.ibiblio.org/mailman/listinfo/nafex message archives http://lists.ibiblio.org/pipermail/nafex Google message archive search: site: lists.ibiblio.org/pipermail/nafex [searchstring] nafex list mirror sites: http://groups.google.com/group/nafexlist https://sites.google.com/site/nafexmailinglist Avant Geared http://www.avantgeared.com __________________ nafex mailing list nafex at lists.ibiblio.org subscribe/unsubscribe|user config|list info|make a donation toward list maintenance: http://lists.ibiblio.org/mailman/listinfo/nafex message archives http://lists.ibiblio.org/pipermail/nafex Google message archive search: site: lists.ibiblio.org/pipermail/nafex [searchstring] nafex list mirror sites: http://groups.google.com/group/nafexlist https://sites.google.com/site/nafexmailinglist Avant Geared http://www.avantgeared.com From dvidedevo at yahoo.com Tue Aug 19 20:44:12 2014 From: dvidedevo at yahoo.com (Devin Smith) Date: Tue, 19 Aug 2014 17:44:12 -0700 Subject: [nafex] tasty perennial Physalis Message-ID: <1408495452.38319.YahooMailNeo@web160606.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> I've been slowly acquiring several varieties of perennial ground cherry. looking for one that makes a good fruit and grows well for me. Out of 4 or 5 kinds that I've transplanted to my garden, most have been pretty disappointing. 1/2" greenish fruit that doesn't seem to ripen up, plus a surprising degree of pest damage for a weed (in my experience). However, I did find one variety that I now consider most excellent. It was discovered along the stone foundation of an old farmhouse on which I did some work. Noticing its unusual dwarf form and largish fruit, I transplanted some sections of rhizome hastily, not expecting much. I found them in June or so of last year, and though they regrew quickly from the root sections, they didn't manage ripen their fruit before frost last year. I just tasted some today for the first time. They are quite tasty, productive, and clearly pretty early ripening. Size-wise, they are comparable to the peruviana "cape gooseberries" that I've grown in the past-- about 3/4. They are not quite as bright orange, and a bit more acidic. I'm not sure what species they are, but my observations lead me to believe that there is significant hybridization and variation between types rather than distinct species as such. They are low growing enough to make a good groundcover, though they don't seem to grow thick enough on their own to exclude other plants. Mine seem to be mingling well with dutch clover and Ajuga though. Is anyone else dabbling with Physalis? They seem to be largely ignored. I consider them good eating, and find the best ones to be quite agreeable. For totally unimproved plants, they seem to hold a lot of potential. They certainly are easy enough to grow! -Devin From naomi at oznayim.us Tue Aug 19 20:17:22 2014 From: naomi at oznayim.us (Naomi Counides) Date: Tue, 19 Aug 2014 18:17:22 -0600 Subject: [nafex] goats w donkey for pecan orchard In-Reply-To: <2B4AF8D8091649CCB0E6717752841453@keith2> References: <03af01cfbbe5$d609dff0$821d9fd0$@oznayim.us> <2B4AF8D8091649CCB0E6717752841453@keith2> Message-ID: <03c801cfbc0c$1ef1db70$5cd59250$@oznayim.us> Good plan. Actually I have that at my place, though the donkeys do not chase the goats, not for years, not after I had a chat with the boss jennet and made my wishes clear to her. But just a passageway that is too low for the donkeys or too narrow. Actually with pygmies, the low option is probably easier. Have you considered Nigerians or miniature dairy breeds? Goat milk is quite nice, and so is the cheese. Naomi -----Original Message----- From: nafex [mailto:nafex-bounces at lists.ibiblio.org] On Behalf Of R. Keith Etheridge Sent: Tuesday, August 19, 2014 5:51 PM To: nafex mailing list at ibiblio Subject: Re: [nafex] goats w donkey for pecan orchard Thanks ,It's a gelding.I don t live at the location.I have a smaller chain link enclosure.Think will fix place goats can escape to if he chases them. I don't think I ever have had losses to coyotes but neighbors have goats with their cattle as they thought they had loss of calves. Keith -----Original Message----- From: Naomi Counides Sent: Tuesday, August 19, 2014 2:43 PM To: 'nafex mailing list at ibiblio' Subject: Re: [nafex] goats w donkey for pecan orchard Is she a she? Shes are often easier to reason with. They are the leaders, guardians and teachers of the herd. Anyway If you introduce them and explain that they are yours and you like them and want to keep them and she should not mess with them, it should work. Mostly does. The donkeys age is actually in your favor on this. Maturity. Naomi -----Original Message----- From: nafex [mailto:nafex-bounces at lists.ibiblio.org] On Behalf Of R. Keith Etheridge Sent: Tuesday, August 19, 2014 12:50 PM To: nafex at lists.ibiblio.org Subject: [nafex] goats w donkey for pecan orchard For several years I had a guard donkey w pygmy goats in my pecan orchard. The goats are gone due to old age and want to get some more.Will the donkey accept a new batch or will I have to let them get used to each other across the fence for a time? Keith __________________ nafex mailing list nafex at lists.ibiblio.org subscribe/unsubscribe|user config|list info|make a donation toward list maintenance: http://lists.ibiblio.org/mailman/listinfo/nafex message archives http://lists.ibiblio.org/pipermail/nafex Google message archive search: site: lists.ibiblio.org/pipermail/nafex [searchstring] nafex list mirror sites: http://groups.google.com/group/nafexlist https://sites.google.com/site/nafexmailinglist Avant Geared http://www.avantgeared.com __________________ nafex mailing list nafex at lists.ibiblio.org subscribe/unsubscribe|user config|list info|make a donation toward list maintenance: http://lists.ibiblio.org/mailman/listinfo/nafex message archives http://lists.ibiblio.org/pipermail/nafex Google message archive search: site: lists.ibiblio.org/pipermail/nafex [searchstring] nafex list mirror sites: http://groups.google.com/group/nafexlist https://sites.google.com/site/nafexmailinglist Avant Geared http://www.avantgeared.com __________________ nafex mailing list nafex at lists.ibiblio.org subscribe/unsubscribe|user config|list info|make a donation toward list maintenance: http://lists.ibiblio.org/mailman/listinfo/nafex message archives http://lists.ibiblio.org/pipermail/nafex Google message archive search: site: lists.ibiblio.org/pipermail/nafex [searchstring] nafex list mirror sites: http://groups.google.com/group/nafexlist https://sites.google.com/site/nafexmailinglist Avant Geared http://www.avantgeared.com From 6ducks at gmail.com Tue Aug 19 21:07:13 2014 From: 6ducks at gmail.com (Michele Stanton) Date: Tue, 19 Aug 2014 21:07:13 -0400 Subject: [nafex] tasty perennial Physalis In-Reply-To: <1408495452.38319.YahooMailNeo@web160606.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> References: <1408495452.38319.YahooMailNeo@web160606.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <000001cfbc13$14dfb740$3e9f25c0$@gmail.com> Devin, What kind of climate are you gardening in? I've eaten physalis spp. before, but this year am growing my first crop, Baker Creek Heirloom Seed's 'Ground Cherry'. No ripe fruit yet, but what fruit I have doesn't look any bigger than 1/2". And the bugs are ferocious-- flea beetles perhaps. Baker doesn't give the species name for these, but I'd guess they're perennials in warmer zones. At any rate, I'd love to experiment with some that might be perennial in a zone 6. We have native Physalis here, why not larger-fruited ones, too? Thanks Michele in SW Ohio -----Original Message----- From: nafex [mailto:nafex-bounces at lists.ibiblio.org] On Behalf Of Devin Smith via nafex Sent: Tuesday, August 19, 2014 8:44 PM To: nafex at lists.ibiblio.org Subject: [nafex] tasty perennial Physalis I've been slowly acquiring several varieties of perennial ground cherry. looking for one that makes a good fruit and grows well for me. Out of 4 or 5 kinds that I've transplanted to my garden, most have been pretty disappointing. 1/2" greenish fruit that doesn't seem to ripen up, plus a surprising degree of pest damage for a weed (in my experience). However, I did find one variety that I now consider most excellent. It was discovered along the stone foundation of an old farmhouse on which I did some work. Noticing its unusual dwarf form and largish fruit, I transplanted some sections of rhizome hastily, not expecting much. I found them in June or so of last year, and though they regrew quickly from the root sections, they didn't manage ripen their fruit before frost last year. I just tasted some today for the first time. They are quite tasty, productive, and clearly pretty early ripening. Size-wise, they are comparable to the peruviana "cape gooseberries" that I've grown in the past-- about 3/4. They are not quite as bright orange, and a bit more acidic. I'm not sure what species they are, but my observations lead me to believe that there is significant hybridization and variation between types rather than distinct species as such. They are low growing enough to make a good groundcover, though they don't seem to grow thick enough on their own to exclude other plants. Mine seem to be mingling well with dutch clover and Ajuga though. Is anyone else dabbling with Physalis? They seem to be largely ignored. I consider them good eating, and find the best ones to be quite agreeable. For totally unimproved plants, they seem to hold a lot of potential. They certainly are easy enough to grow! -Devin __________________ nafex mailing list nafex at lists.ibiblio.org subscribe/unsubscribe|user config|list info|make a donation toward list maintenance: http://lists.ibiblio.org/mailman/listinfo/nafex message archives http://lists.ibiblio.org/pipermail/nafex Google message archive search: site: lists.ibiblio.org/pipermail/nafex [searchstring] nafex list mirror sites: http://groups.google.com/group/nafexlist https://sites.google.com/site/nafexmailinglist Avant Geared http://www.avantgeared.com From qazingulaza at gmail.com Tue Aug 19 21:20:05 2014 From: qazingulaza at gmail.com (mIEKAL aND) Date: Tue, 19 Aug 2014 20:20:05 -0500 Subject: [nafex] tasty perennial Physalis In-Reply-To: <1408495452.38319.YahooMailNeo@web160606.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> References: <1408495452.38319.YahooMailNeo@web160606.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: I was surprised to see at the local market that most of the Amish vendors sell it. They're probably growing it from seed from one of the big seed companies rather than selecting wild rhizomes and replanting. I think they mostly use it for jam. ~mIEKAL On Aug 19, 2014, at 7:44 PM, Devin Smith via nafex wrote: > Is anyone else dabbling with Physalis? They seem to be largely ignored. I consider them good eating, and find the best ones to be quite agreeable. For totally unimproved plants, they seem to hold a lot of potential. They certainly are easy enough to grow! From Jwlehman at aol.com Tue Aug 19 22:25:32 2014 From: Jwlehman at aol.com (Jwlehman at aol.com) Date: Tue, 19 Aug 2014 22:25:32 -0400 (EDT) Subject: [nafex] tasty perennial Physalis Message-ID: <3390d.60d3b551.4125611c@aol.com> My Mother grew them during my childhood and she made Ground Cherry Pie. My sister and my wife make ground cherry pie which is one of my favorites. I'm in zone 5B and they come up volunteer every year, more like a weed. So I just transplant them in a short row. They come up in my compost pile. Insects for me aren't a big problem. Planting them with a plastic ground cover makes collecting them easier. They are quite a popular garden plant in my home town of Berne, IN. Ground cherry pie....yum yum! Jerry In a message dated 8/19/2014 9:07:12 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time, 6ducks at gmail.com writes: I've eaten physalis spp. before, but this year am growing my first crop, Baker Creek Heirloom Seed's 'Ground Cherry'. No ripe fruit yet, but what fruit I have doesn't look any bigger than 1/2". And the bugs are ferocious-- flea beetles perhaps. Baker doesn't give the species name for these, but I'd guess they're perennials in warmer zones. At any rate, I'd love to experiment with some that might be perennial in a zone 6. We have native Physalis here, why not larger-fruited ones, too? From Jwlehman at aol.com Tue Aug 19 23:10:19 2014 From: Jwlehman at aol.com (Jwlehman at aol.com) Date: Tue, 19 Aug 2014 23:10:19 -0400 (EDT) Subject: [nafex] Test Message-ID: <34638.2dd944e9.41256b9b@aol.com> Please excuse me you'll. From alandhaigh at gmail.com Wed Aug 20 06:21:49 2014 From: alandhaigh at gmail.com (Alan Haigh) Date: Wed, 20 Aug 2014 06:21:49 -0400 Subject: [nafex] complaints about taxpayer funded "club" varieties Message-ID: Funds for breeding research for state universities is, unfortunately, shrinking as I believe, are the breeding programs themselves. Money made from patents can help universities fund more research so they have to do whatever they can to recoup as much money with any rock star varieties they happen to produce. Honeycrisp is the holly grail but many varieties only become popular after the extinction of the patent (think Goldrush). Patents run their course and the system (originally devised in England) actually created the environment to bring about the industrial revolution- inventors must be rewarded based on the success of their inventions. The idea has always been that patents run out and become public property, but not before the inventor is reasonably compensated. I don't like the club variety idea much either, but I was at a farmers markets in CA where a grower was boasting how he grafted all his trees to patented Zaiger varieties. He was very proud of how he avoided paying the royalties. I said nothing but didn't buy any of his fruit. However, I can't say I've never grafted a patented variety for my own personal use. Can't do that with a club variety- boo hoo. From tanisgrif at yahoo.com Wed Aug 20 09:05:45 2014 From: tanisgrif at yahoo.com (tanis grif) Date: Wed, 20 Aug 2014 06:05:45 -0700 Subject: [nafex] goats w donkey for pecan orchard In-Reply-To: <03c801cfbc0c$1ef1db70$5cd59250$@oznayim.us> References: <03af01cfbbe5$d609dff0$821d9fd0$@oznayim.us> <2B4AF8D8091649CCB0E6717752841453@keith2> <03c801cfbc0c$1ef1db70$5cd59250$@oznayim.us> Message-ID: <1408539945.27616.YahooMailNeo@web121704.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> I asked Keith's question of some pygmy goat owners.? They recommend going with young goats who are still deciding who their leader is.? And the escape fence is a good idea. ? On Tuesday, August 19, 2014 7:48 PM, Naomi Counides wrote: Good plan.? Actually I have that at my place, though the donkeys do not chase the goats, not for years, not after I had a chat with the boss jennet and made my wishes clear to her.? But just a passageway that is too low for the donkeys or too narrow.? Actually with pygmies, the low option is probably easier.? Have you considered Nigerians or miniature dairy breeds?? Goat milk is quite nice, and so is the cheese. Naomi -----Original Message----- From: nafex [mailto:nafex-bounces at lists.ibiblio.org] On Behalf Of R. Keith Etheridge Sent: Tuesday, August 19, 2014 5:51 PM To: nafex mailing list at ibiblio Subject: Re: [nafex] goats w donkey for pecan orchard Thanks ,It's a gelding.I don t live at the location.I have a smaller chain link enclosure.Think will fix place goats can escape to if he chases them. I don't think I ever have had losses to coyotes but neighbors have goats? with their cattle as they thought they had loss of calves. Keith -----Original Message----- From: Naomi Counides Sent: Tuesday, August 19, 2014 2:43 PM To: 'nafex mailing list at ibiblio' Subject: Re: [nafex] goats w donkey for pecan orchard Is she a she?? Shes are often easier to reason with.? They are the leaders, guardians and teachers of the herd.? Anyway If you introduce them and explain that they are yours and you like them and want to keep them and she should not mess with them, it should work.? Mostly does.? The donkeys age is actually in your favor on this. Maturity. Naomi -----Original Message----- From: nafex [mailto:nafex-bounces at lists.ibiblio.org] On Behalf Of R. Keith Etheridge Sent: Tuesday, August 19, 2014 12:50 PM To: nafex at lists.ibiblio.org Subject: [nafex] goats w donkey for pecan orchard For several years I had a guard donkey w pygmy goats in my pecan orchard. The goats are gone due to old age and want to get some more.Will the donkey accept a new batch or will I have to let them get used to each other across the fence for a time? Keith __________________ From sam.brungardt at state.mn.us Wed Aug 20 09:35:49 2014 From: sam.brungardt at state.mn.us (Brungardt, Sam (MPCA)) Date: Wed, 20 Aug 2014 13:35:49 +0000 Subject: [nafex] Scientists are creating half-sized peach treesto make picking fruit easier (Modern Farmer) In-Reply-To: References: <1268E36B214F7D4F968B0285BF5CF3E4052FCC9B@055-CH1MPN1-031.055d.mgd.msft.net><00b501cfbbc0$15482bc0$3fd88340$@net> <1268E36B214F7D4F968B0285BF5CF3E4052FCD21@055-CH1MPN1-031.055d.mgd.msft.net> <1268E36B214F7D4F968B0285BF5CF3E4052FCDE6@055-CH1MPN1-031.055d.mgd.msft.net> Message-ID: <1268E36B214F7D4F968B0285BF5CF3E4052FD064@055-CH1MPN1-031.055d.mgd.msft.net> Rivka, the very limited background and discussion that Modern Farmer gave to this subject is typical of its coverage. I believe that this magazine is mostly intended for a nontechnical and nonagricultural audience. This seems to hold if you examine an issue or two. -- Sam Brungardt, St. Paul, Minn. (USDA Zone 4a) -----Original Message----- From: nafex [mailto:nafex-bounces at lists.ibiblio.org] On Behalf Of Road's End Farm Sent: Tuesday, August 19, 2014 3:55 PM To: nafex mailing list at ibiblio Subject: Re: [nafex] Scientists are creating half-sized peach treesto make picking fruit easier (Modern Farmer) Oh, yes; I can definitely think of good reasons for people to be working on this. I was just puzzled by the article's being so written as to give the impression that they think dwarf fruit trees, in general, are a new idea. I very much doubt that the researchers themselves think this; it's most likely a problem in the reporting. -- Rivka; Finger Lakes NY, Zone 6A now I think Fresh-market organic produce, small scale On Aug 19, 2014, at 3:15 PM, Geoffrey Tolle wrote: > Another point would be that our dwarfing rootstock is very limited genetically. There are many fruit varieties but much more limited rootstock varieties. If (when) something shows up to take out one rootstock, then it could take years for the industry to recover from the loss of that rootstock. Having another source of dwarf trees only makes good ecological sense. > > Geoffrey Tolle > > On Aug 19, 2014, at 12:37 PM, Brungardt, Sam (MPCA) wrote: > >> Good point, Bob and Idell. I don't have a decent solution for selling the trees as are the club apples. Maybe a night visit to one of those compact tree orchards at full bloom to collect pollen? >> >> Still, I'd like to think some of the selections might end up being >> propagated and sold by the nursery industry. Seems like no rootstock >> is very successful for peaches, and this development (compact trees >> on their own roots, if that's what it is) would fill both commercial >> and amateur growers' needs. -- Sam > __________________ nafex mailing list nafex at lists.ibiblio.org subscribe/unsubscribe|user config|list info|make a donation toward list maintenance: http://lists.ibiblio.org/mailman/listinfo/nafex message archives http://lists.ibiblio.org/pipermail/nafex Google message archive search: site: lists.ibiblio.org/pipermail/nafex [searchstring] nafex list mirror sites: http://groups.google.com/group/nafexlist https://sites.google.com/site/nafexmailinglist Avant Geared http://www.avantgeared.com From phainopepla at yahoo.com Wed Aug 20 12:32:04 2014 From: phainopepla at yahoo.com (Michael Dossett) Date: Wed, 20 Aug 2014 09:32:04 -0700 Subject: [nafex] complaints about taxpayer funded "club" varieties In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <1408552324.23115.YahooMailNeo@web142305.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> I think it is important to understand here that "club" varieties have little to do with generating revenues for breeding programs - a point which I think has been missed.? If the goal was solely to generate royalty revenue, patenting a variety and then making it widely available through licensed propagators will absolutely generate a larger revenue stream, or what some have done which is to also license a production royalty on top of the per plant royalty. ? "Club" varieties are more about generating revenue for growers by limiting supply.? This works best when consumers are able to identify particular varieties in the marketplace which is why you rarely see club varieties in anything but apples.? By limiting the supply to a set number of producers/acres, you can manage the supply and demand so that retailers make more and so that growers can ask a higher price.? There is very little money to be made by apple growers growing a gala or a red delicious if the retail price is $1/lb or less, but if the supply is limited and demand is present then the growers can get a better price because the price can be passed down to consumers who will still pay it.? Usually growers pay a fee to be in the club or their is a competitive bidding process to delineate who is in or out.? As with any system, there are pros and cons, but theoretically, the club system can be good for local family farms who don't necessarily have the economy of scale to be operating on razor thin margins of producing apples like red delicious, though it still squeezes out many small acreage producers. ? Michael ? ? Michael Dossett Mission, British Columbia www.Mdossettphoto.com phainopepla at yahoo.com On Wednesday, August 20, 2014 3:22 AM, Alan Haigh wrote: Funds for breeding research for state universities is, unfortunately, shrinking as I believe, are the breeding programs themselves.? Money made from patents can help universities fund more research so they have to do whatever they can to recoup as much money with any rock star varieties they happen to produce.? Honeycrisp is the holly grail but many varieties only become popular after the extinction of the patent (think Goldrush). Patents run their course and the system (originally devised in England) actually created the environment to bring about the industrial revolution- inventors must be rewarded based on the success of their inventions.? The idea has always been that patents run out and become public property, but not before the inventor is reasonably compensated. I don't like the club variety idea much either, but I was at a farmers markets in CA where a grower was boasting how he grafted all his trees to patented Zaiger varieties.? He was very proud of how he avoided paying the royalties.? I said nothing but didn't buy any of his fruit.? However, I can't say I've never grafted a patented variety for my own personal use. Can't do that with a club variety- boo hoo. __________________ nafex mailing list nafex at lists.ibiblio.org subscribe/unsubscribe|user config|list info|make a donation toward list maintenance: http://lists.ibiblio.org/mailman/listinfo/nafex message archives http://lists.ibiblio.org/pipermail/nafex Google message archive search: site: lists.ibiblio.org/pipermail/nafex [searchstring] nafex list mirror sites: http://groups.google.com/group/nafexlist https://sites.google.com/site/nafexmailinglist Avant Geared? http://www.avantgeared.com/ From r.fred.bruns at gmail.com Wed Aug 20 15:17:53 2014 From: r.fred.bruns at gmail.com (Robert Bruns) Date: Wed, 20 Aug 2014 15:17:53 -0400 Subject: [nafex] tasty perennial Physalis In-Reply-To: <3390d.60d3b551.4125611c@aol.com> References: <3390d.60d3b551.4125611c@aol.com> Message-ID: Devin - Where are you located? Here in central Indiana, the edible ones don't overwinter. The only physalis that does overwinter is Chinese Lantern, which isn't edible. It is obviously a different species from the edible ground cherry, both from appearance of the plants and from the fact that the two don't hybridize even when grown next to each other. My favorite ground cherry is "Cossack Pineapple". I think it's listed as just plain "Pineapple" in some catalogs. If you can provide seeds of your variety, I'd love to try it. Fred Bruns On 8/19/14, Jwlehman--- via nafex wrote: > My Mother grew them during my childhood and she made Ground Cherry Pie. My > > sister and my wife make ground cherry pie which is one of my favorites. I'm > > in zone 5B and they come up volunteer every year, more like a weed. So I > just transplant them in a short row. They come up in my compost pile. > Insects for me aren't a big problem. Planting them with a plastic ground > cover > makes collecting them easier. They are quite a popular garden plant in my > home town of Berne, IN. > > Ground cherry pie....yum yum! > > Jerry > > > In a message dated 8/19/2014 9:07:12 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time, > 6ducks at gmail.com writes: > > I've eaten physalis spp. before, but this year am growing my first crop, > Baker Creek Heirloom Seed's 'Ground Cherry'. No ripe fruit yet, but what > fruit I have doesn't look any bigger than 1/2". And the bugs are > ferocious-- flea beetles perhaps. > Baker doesn't give the species name for these, but I'd guess they're > perennials in warmer zones. > At any rate, I'd love to experiment with some that might be perennial in a > zone 6. We have native Physalis here, why not larger-fruited ones, too? > > > __________________ > nafex mailing list > nafex at lists.ibiblio.org > subscribe/unsubscribe|user config|list info|make a donation toward list > maintenance: > http://lists.ibiblio.org/mailman/listinfo/nafex > message archives > http://lists.ibiblio.org/pipermail/nafex > Google message archive search: > site: lists.ibiblio.org/pipermail/nafex [searchstring] > nafex list mirror sites: > http://groups.google.com/group/nafexlist > https://sites.google.com/site/nafexmailinglist > Avant Geared http://www.avantgeared.com > From hartmansfruit at msn.com Wed Aug 20 15:29:32 2014 From: hartmansfruit at msn.com (ROBERT W JUDY A) Date: Wed, 20 Aug 2014 12:29:32 -0700 Subject: [nafex] complaints about taxpayer funded "club" varieties In-Reply-To: <1408552324.23115.YahooMailNeo@web142305.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> References: <1408552324.23115.YahooMailNeo@web142305.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: Michael, I am not concerned about who is getting the money for the whole thing. I am more concerned that the whole process ties everything up so that the homeowner will never see any of the trees in his or her own yard. Bob -----Original Message----- From: Michael Dossett via nafex Sent: Wednesday, August 20, 2014 9:32 AM To: nafex mailing list at ibiblio Subject: Re: [nafex] complaints about taxpayer funded "club" varieties I think it is important to understand here that "club" varieties have little to do with generating revenues for breeding programs - a point which I think has been missed. If the goal was solely to generate royalty revenue, patenting a variety and then making it widely available through licensed propagators will absolutely generate a larger revenue stream, or what some have done which is to also license a production royalty on top of the per plant royalty. "Club" varieties are more about generating revenue for growers by limiting supply. This works best when consumers are able to identify particular varieties in the marketplace which is why you rarely see club varieties in anything but apples. By limiting the supply to a set number of producers/acres, you can manage the supply and demand so that retailers make more and so that growers can ask a higher price. There is very little money to be made by apple growers growing a gala or a red delicious if the retail price is $1/lb or less, but if the supply is limited and demand is present then the growers can get a better price because the price can be passed down to consumers who will still pay it. Usually growers pay a fee to be in the club or their is a competitive bidding process to delineate who is in or out. As with any system, there are pros and cons, but theoretically, the club system can be good for local family farms who don't necessarily have the economy of scale to be operating on razor thin margins of producing apples like red delicious, though it still squeezes out many small acreage producers. Michael Michael Dossett Mission, British Columbia www.Mdossettphoto.com phainopepla at yahoo.com On Wednesday, August 20, 2014 3:22 AM, Alan Haigh wrote: Funds for breeding research for state universities is, unfortunately, shrinking as I believe, are the breeding programs themselves. Money made from patents can help universities fund more research so they have to do whatever they can to recoup as much money with any rock star varieties they happen to produce. Honeycrisp is the holly grail but many varieties only become popular after the extinction of the patent (think Goldrush). Patents run their course and the system (originally devised in England) actually created the environment to bring about the industrial revolution- inventors must be rewarded based on the success of their inventions. The idea has always been that patents run out and become public property, but not before the inventor is reasonably compensated. I don't like the club variety idea much either, but I was at a farmers markets in CA where a grower was boasting how he grafted all his trees to patented Zaiger varieties. He was very proud of how he avoided paying the royalties. I said nothing but didn't buy any of his fruit. However, I can't say I've never grafted a patented variety for my own personal use. Can't do that with a club variety- boo hoo. __________________ nafex mailing list nafex at lists.ibiblio.org subscribe/unsubscribe|user config|list info|make a donation toward list maintenance: http://lists.ibiblio.org/mailman/listinfo/nafex message archives http://lists.ibiblio.org/pipermail/nafex Google message archive search: site: lists.ibiblio.org/pipermail/nafex [searchstring] nafex list mirror sites: http://groups.google.com/group/nafexlist https://sites.google.com/site/nafexmailinglist Avant Geared http://www.avantgeared.com/ __________________ nafex mailing list nafex at lists.ibiblio.org subscribe/unsubscribe|user config|list info|make a donation toward list maintenance: http://lists.ibiblio.org/mailman/listinfo/nafex message archives http://lists.ibiblio.org/pipermail/nafex Google message archive search: site: lists.ibiblio.org/pipermail/nafex [searchstring] nafex list mirror sites: http://groups.google.com/group/nafexlist https://sites.google.com/site/nafexmailinglist Avant Geared http://www.avantgeared.com From debs913 at gmail.com Wed Aug 20 15:52:35 2014 From: debs913 at gmail.com (Deb Schneider) Date: Wed, 20 Aug 2014 15:52:35 -0400 Subject: [nafex] nafex] complaints about taxpayer funded "club" varieties Message-ID: <73ghvl12lbmqj9290opgy7s1.1408564355740@email.android.com> I'd rather my taxes go to breeding fruit than funding wars. From mark.lee.phd at gmail.com Wed Aug 20 16:03:46 2014 From: mark.lee.phd at gmail.com (Mark Lee) Date: Wed, 20 Aug 2014 13:03:46 -0700 Subject: [nafex] tasty perennial Physalis In-Reply-To: References: <3390d.60d3b551.4125611c@aol.com> Message-ID: Devin, I have grown annual ground cherries in the past, and I like them. I'm also interested in perennial plants that produce edibles. About 10 years ago I tried to obtain some perennial species of Physalis. I started the process by browsing my favorite online resource for edible plants, Plants for a Future, http://www.pfaf.org/user/plantsearch.aspx, and I came up with a list of perennial species of Physalis that I could potentially use in my edible landscape. After searching through online seed catalogs and nurseries, the only species I found available were annual. I also noticed that the perennial species were on a few noxious weed lists. I gave up on my search. It seemed like the cards were stacked against me finding the species on my want list of perennial Physalis. I am glad to hear that you have found success. Where are you located? -Mark Lee, Seattle On Wed, Aug 20, 2014 at 12:17 PM, Robert Bruns wrote: > Devin - > > Where are you located? Here in central Indiana, the edible ones don't > overwinter. The only physalis that does overwinter is Chinese > Lantern, which isn't edible. It is obviously a different species from > the edible ground cherry, both from appearance of the plants and from > the fact that the two don't hybridize even when grown next to each > other. > > My favorite ground cherry is "Cossack Pineapple". I think it's listed > as just plain "Pineapple" in some catalogs. > > If you can provide seeds of your variety, I'd love to try it. > > Fred Bruns > > > On 8/19/14, Jwlehman--- via nafex wrote: > > My Mother grew them during my childhood and she made Ground Cherry Pie. > My > > > > sister and my wife make ground cherry pie which is one of my favorites. > I'm > > > > in zone 5B and they come up volunteer every year, more like a weed. So I > > just transplant them in a short row. They come up in my compost pile. > > Insects for me aren't a big problem. Planting them with a plastic ground > > cover > > makes collecting them easier. They are quite a popular garden plant in > my > > home town of Berne, IN. > > > > Ground cherry pie....yum yum! > > > > Jerry > > > > > > In a message dated 8/19/2014 9:07:12 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time, > > 6ducks at gmail.com writes: > > > > I've eaten physalis spp. before, but this year am growing my first crop, > > Baker Creek Heirloom Seed's 'Ground Cherry'. No ripe fruit yet, but what > > fruit I have doesn't look any bigger than 1/2". And the bugs are > > ferocious-- flea beetles perhaps. > > Baker doesn't give the species name for these, but I'd guess they're > > perennials in warmer zones. > > At any rate, I'd love to experiment with some that might be perennial > in a > > zone 6. We have native Physalis here, why not larger-fruited ones, > too? > > > > > > __________________ > > nafex mailing list > > nafex at lists.ibiblio.org > > subscribe/unsubscribe|user config|list info|make a donation toward list > > maintenance: > > http://lists.ibiblio.org/mailman/listinfo/nafex > > message archives > > http://lists.ibiblio.org/pipermail/nafex > > Google message archive search: > > site: lists.ibiblio.org/pipermail/nafex [searchstring] > > nafex list mirror sites: > > http://groups.google.com/group/nafexlist > > https://sites.google.com/site/nafexmailinglist > > Avant Geared http://www.avantgeared.com > > > __________________ > nafex mailing list > nafex at lists.ibiblio.org > subscribe/unsubscribe|user config|list info|make a donation toward list > maintenance: > http://lists.ibiblio.org/mailman/listinfo/nafex > message archives > http://lists.ibiblio.org/pipermail/nafex > Google message archive search: > site: lists.ibiblio.org/pipermail/nafex [searchstring] > nafex list mirror sites: > http://groups.google.com/group/nafexlist > https://sites.google.com/site/nafexmailinglist > Avant Geared http://www.avantgeared.com > From mijwiz at yahoo.com Wed Aug 20 16:06:27 2014 From: mijwiz at yahoo.com (Melissa Kacalanos) Date: Wed, 20 Aug 2014 16:06:27 -0400 Subject: [nafex] complaints about taxpayer funded "club" varieties In-Reply-To: References: <1408552324.23115.YahooMailNeo@web142305.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <7639D6C3-45AB-454A-8526-E4FC8597B0C2@yahoo.com> It was my understanding that the club varieties are about protecting the brand name recognition of certain apple varieties. To qualify as a member of the club, apple farmers don't just pay a licensing fee, but commit to selling fruit only of a high enough quality to keep the public convinced that apples of that variety are worth their premium price. The farmers have to meet some standards of thinning, picking only when actually ripe, proper storage, and so on. Since protecting the perception of their brand name is a major goal, I can understand why breeders don't want just anyone selling apples by these trademarked names. It only takes a few badly-grown apples for consumers to lose faith in the superiority of these trademarked names. And I'm sure they don't want any wormy backyard amateur apples sullying the good names of these carefully megafarmed varieties. But don't worry, I'm sure these varieties will become available to everyone as soon as the breeders come up with the latest varieties to replace them with. Melissa From phainopepla at yahoo.com Wed Aug 20 16:55:46 2014 From: phainopepla at yahoo.com (Michael Dossett) Date: Wed, 20 Aug 2014 13:55:46 -0700 Subject: [nafex] complaints about taxpayer funded "club" varieties In-Reply-To: <7639D6C3-45AB-454A-8526-E4FC8597B0C2@yahoo.com> References: <1408552324.23115.YahooMailNeo@web142305.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> <7639D6C3-45AB-454A-8526-E4FC8597B0C2@yahoo.com> Message-ID: <1408568146.21432.YahooMailNeo@web142304.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> Melissa, ? Protecting brand recognition is also part of it, though it is secondary to managing supply.? There are several cases where brand protection has been attempted in apples through the use of trademarked names rather than limiting supply (in addition to quality) by buying into the club.? For example, Pink Lady is the trademarked name for Cripp's Pink.? Pink Lady sells for a slightly higher price in the store because of the brand premium, but growers have to pay a licensing fee to be able market their fruit as Pink Lady and are contractually only allowed to market the high quality product that way.? Lower quality apples may still be sold, but must be sold/marketed as Cripp's Pink.? This protects the brand, but does little to manage supply and demand?when people realize that they are the same variety.? There is even an instance of rebranding where an apple was sold under one trademarked name and was a flop because of poor quality in the marketplace, so they trademarked a second name and began marketing fruit under the new name, where it was slightly more successful but still never really took off.? Wish I could remember what it was off the top of my head - I may have to do some digging to figure it out. ? I guess for home gardeners the net result is the same, and it is an unfortunate trend. The days of publically released varieties are quickly coming to an end and even non club cultivars of a variety of fruits are often difficult to obtain because of license restrictions.? I suppose the only consolation is that if it is truly a fantastic variety, it will have staying power and will still be around and will be more available after the patent has expired. ? Michael ? Michael Dossett Mission, British Columbia www.Mdossettphoto.com phainopepla at yahoo.com On Wednesday, August 20, 2014 1:06 PM, Melissa Kacalanos via nafex wrote: It was my understanding that the club varieties are about protecting the brand name recognition of certain apple varieties. To qualify as a member of the club, apple farmers don't just pay a licensing fee, but commit to selling fruit only of a high enough quality to keep the public convinced that apples of that variety are worth their premium price. The farmers have to meet some standards of thinning, picking only when actually ripe, proper storage, and so on. Since protecting the perception of their brand name is a major goal, I can understand why breeders don't want just anyone selling apples by these trademarked names. It only takes a few badly-grown apples for consumers to lose faith in the superiority of these trademarked names. And I'm sure they don't want any wormy backyard amateur apples sullying the good names of these carefully megafarmed varieties. But don't worry, I'm sure these varieties will become available to everyone as soon as the breeders come up with the latest varieties to replace them with. Melissa __________________ nafex mailing list nafex at lists.ibiblio.org subscribe/unsubscribe|user config|list info|make a donation toward list maintenance: http://lists.ibiblio.org/mailman/listinfo/nafex message archives http://lists.ibiblio.org/pipermail/nafex Google message archive search: site: lists.ibiblio.org/pipermail/nafex [searchstring] nafex list mirror sites: http://groups.google.com/group/nafexlist https://sites.google.com/site/nafexmailinglist Avant Geared? http://www.avantgeared.com/ From mdemmon at gmail.com Wed Aug 20 17:10:38 2014 From: mdemmon at gmail.com (Matt Demmon) Date: Wed, 20 Aug 2014 17:10:38 -0400 Subject: [nafex] complaints about taxpayer funded "club" varieties In-Reply-To: <1408568146.21432.YahooMailNeo@web142304.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> References: <1408552324.23115.YahooMailNeo@web142305.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> <7639D6C3-45AB-454A-8526-E4FC8597B0C2@yahoo.com> <1408568146.21432.YahooMailNeo@web142304.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: That is very interesting about Pink Lady. No restrictions on growing, but having to meet certain quality standards to buy into the brand. I would like that if it actually guaranteed good apples. I bought some Pink Lady from a small grocer last week that were terrible, truly distinctly awful, mushy and flavorless. I wonder if they paid their license fee. Generally they are quite good for a grocery store apple. -matt z5 SE MI On Wed, Aug 20, 2014 at 4:55 PM, Michael Dossett via nafex < nafex at lists.ibiblio.org> wrote: > Melissa, > > Protecting brand recognition is also part of it, though it is secondary to > managing supply. There are several cases where brand protection has been > attempted in apples through the use of trademarked names rather than > limiting supply (in addition to quality) by buying into the club. For > example, Pink Lady is the trademarked name for Cripp's Pink. Pink Lady > sells for a slightly higher price in the store because of the brand > premium, but growers have to pay a licensing fee to be able market their > fruit as Pink Lady and are contractually only allowed to market the high > quality product that way. Lower quality apples may still be sold, but must > be sold/marketed as Cripp's Pink. This protects the brand, but does little > to manage supply and demand when people realize that they are the same > variety. There is even an instance of rebranding where an apple was sold > under one trademarked name and was a flop because of poor quality in the > marketplace, so > they trademarked a second name and began marketing fruit under the new > name, where it was slightly more successful but still never really took > off. Wish I could remember what it was off the top of my head - I may have > to do some digging to figure it out. > > I guess for home gardeners the net result is the same, and it is an > unfortunate trend. The days of publically released varieties are quickly > coming to an end and even non club cultivars of a variety of fruits are > often difficult to obtain because of license restrictions. I suppose the > only consolation is that if it is truly a fantastic variety, it will have > staying power and will still be around and will be more available after the > patent has expired. > > Michael > > > Michael Dossett > Mission, British Columbia > www.Mdossettphoto.com > phainopepla at yahoo.com > > > On Wednesday, August 20, 2014 1:06 PM, Melissa Kacalanos via nafex < > nafex at lists.ibiblio.org> wrote: > > > > It was my understanding that the club varieties are about protecting the > brand name recognition of certain apple varieties. To qualify as a member > of the club, apple farmers don't just pay a licensing fee, but commit to > selling fruit only of a high enough quality to keep the public convinced > that apples of that variety are worth their premium price. The farmers have > to meet some standards of thinning, picking only when actually ripe, proper > storage, and so on. > > Since protecting the perception of their brand name is a major goal, I can > understand why breeders don't want just anyone selling apples by these > trademarked names. It only takes a few badly-grown apples for consumers to > lose faith in the superiority of these trademarked names. And I'm sure they > don't want any wormy backyard amateur apples sullying the good names of > these carefully megafarmed varieties. > > But don't worry, I'm sure these varieties will become available to > everyone as soon as the breeders come up with the latest varieties to > replace them with. > > Melissa > > __________________ > nafex mailing list > nafex at lists.ibiblio.org > subscribe/unsubscribe|user config|list info|make a donation toward list > maintenance: > http://lists.ibiblio.org/mailman/listinfo/nafex > message archives > http://lists.ibiblio.org/pipermail/nafex > Google message archive search: > site: lists.ibiblio.org/pipermail/nafex [searchstring] > nafex list mirror sites: > http://groups.google.com/group/nafexlist > https://sites.google.com/site/nafexmailinglist > Avant Geared http://www.avantgeared.com/ > __________________ > nafex mailing list > nafex at lists.ibiblio.org > subscribe/unsubscribe|user config|list info|make a donation toward list > maintenance: > http://lists.ibiblio.org/mailman/listinfo/nafex > message archives > http://lists.ibiblio.org/pipermail/nafex > Google message archive search: > site: lists.ibiblio.org/pipermail/nafex [searchstring] > nafex list mirror sites: > http://groups.google.com/group/nafexlist > https://sites.google.com/site/nafexmailinglist > Avant Geared http://www.avantgeared.com > From phainopepla at yahoo.com Wed Aug 20 17:26:34 2014 From: phainopepla at yahoo.com (Michael Dossett) Date: Wed, 20 Aug 2014 14:26:34 -0700 Subject: [nafex] complaints about taxpayer funded "club" varieties In-Reply-To: References: <1408552324.23115.YahooMailNeo@web142305.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> <7639D6C3-45AB-454A-8526-E4FC8597B0C2@yahoo.com> <1408568146.21432.YahooMailNeo@web142304.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <1408569994.75038.YahooMailNeo@web142301.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> Matt, any idea what the country of origin was?? That sounds to me like it is likely to be a broker/marketer problem rather than the grower or packer.? If it's from the northern hemisphere, putting it in storage and expecting it to be in decent shape after 11 months is a tall order for most apples, and there is a fair bit of fruit to fruit variability in terms of exactly how ripe they were when they were picked for how quickly they fall apart after coming out of storage.? Something may be passable on the day you buy it and be complete garbage a week later.? Not to mention there is no telling how long it has been sitting out of storage in the store before it even comes home with you.? Personally, I would not buy any apples from the store this time of year until the new crop starts rolling in.? My wife bought some Granny Smith a week or so ago to put on her oatmeal and was shocked to find that the seeds were starting to sprout inside the apple.? I told her that's what happens when it's been in controlled atmosphere storage for 11 months and that she should wait another month.? You can slow down the process of the flesh breaking down, but that doesn't mean it's going to be in decent shape after that long.? Nature just didn't intend them that way! ? Michael Michael Dossett Mission, British Columbia www.Mdossettphoto.com phainopepla at yahoo.com On Wednesday, August 20, 2014 2:10 PM, Matt Demmon wrote: That is very interesting about Pink Lady. No restrictions on growing, but having to meet certain quality standards to buy into the brand. I would like that if it actually guaranteed good apples. I bought some Pink Lady from a small grocer last week that were terrible, truly distinctly awful, mushy and flavorless. I wonder if they paid their license fee. Generally they are quite good for a grocery store apple. -matt z5 SE MI On Wed, Aug 20, 2014 at 4:55 PM, Michael Dossett via nafex wrote: Melissa, >? >Protecting brand recognition is also part of it, though it is secondary to managing supply.? There are several cases where brand protection has been attempted in apples through the use of trademarked names rather than limiting supply (in addition to quality) by buying into the club.? For example, Pink Lady is the trademarked name for Cripp's Pink.? Pink Lady sells for a slightly higher price in the store because of the brand premium, but growers have to pay a licensing fee to be able market their fruit as Pink Lady and are contractually only allowed to market the high quality product that way.? Lower quality apples may still be sold, but must be sold/marketed as Cripp's Pink.? This protects the brand, but does little to manage supply and demand?when people realize that they are the same variety.? There is even an instance of rebranding where an apple was sold under one trademarked name and was a flop because of poor quality in the marketplace, so >?they trademarked a second name and began marketing fruit under the new name, where it was slightly more successful but still never really took off.? Wish I could remember what it was off the top of my head - I may have to do some digging to figure it out. >? >I guess for home gardeners the net result is the same, and it is an unfortunate trend. The days of publically released varieties are quickly coming to an end and even non club cultivars of a variety of fruits are often difficult to obtain because of license restrictions.? I suppose the only consolation is that if it is truly a fantastic variety, it will have staying power and will still be around and will be more available after the patent has expired. > >? >Michael >? > >Michael Dossett >Mission, British Columbia >http://www.mdossettphoto.com/ >phainopepla at yahoo.com > > > >On Wednesday, August 20, 2014 1:06 PM, Melissa Kacalanos via nafex wrote: > > > >It was my understanding that the club varieties are about protecting the brand name recognition of certain apple varieties. To qualify as a member of the club, apple farmers don't just pay a licensing fee, but commit to selling fruit only of a high enough quality to keep the public convinced that apples of that variety are worth their premium price. The farmers have to meet some standards of thinning, picking only when actually ripe, proper storage, and so on. > >Since protecting the perception of their brand name is a major goal, I can understand why breeders don't want just anyone selling apples by these trademarked names. It only takes a few badly-grown apples for consumers to lose faith in the superiority of these trademarked names. And I'm sure they don't want any wormy backyard amateur apples sullying the good names of these carefully megafarmed varieties. > >But don't worry, I'm sure these varieties will become available to everyone as soon as the breeders come up with the latest varieties to replace them with. > >Melissa > >__________________ >nafex mailing list >nafex at lists.ibiblio.org >subscribe/unsubscribe|user config|list info|make a donation toward list maintenance: >http://lists.ibiblio.org/mailman/listinfo/nafex >message archives >http://lists.ibiblio.org/pipermail/nafex >Google message archive search: >site: lists.ibiblio.org/pipermail/nafex [searchstring] >nafex list mirror sites: >http://groups.google.com/group/nafexlist >https://sites.google.com/site/nafexmailinglist >Avant Geared? http://www.avantgeared.com/ > >__________________ >nafex mailing list >nafex at lists.ibiblio.org >subscribe/unsubscribe|user config|list info|make a donation toward list maintenance: >http://lists.ibiblio.org/mailman/listinfo/nafex >message archives >http://lists.ibiblio.org/pipermail/nafex >Google message archive search: >site: lists.ibiblio.org/pipermail/nafex [searchstring] >nafex list mirror sites: >http://groups.google.com/group/nafexlist >https://sites.google.com/site/nafexmailinglist >Avant Geared? http://www.avantgeared.com/ > From mdemmon at gmail.com Wed Aug 20 22:07:49 2014 From: mdemmon at gmail.com (Matt Demmon) Date: Wed, 20 Aug 2014 22:07:49 -0400 Subject: [nafex] complaints about taxpayer funded "club" varieties In-Reply-To: <1408569994.75038.YahooMailNeo@web142301.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> References: <1408552324.23115.YahooMailNeo@web142305.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> <7639D6C3-45AB-454A-8526-E4FC8597B0C2@yahoo.com> <1408568146.21432.YahooMailNeo@web142304.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> <1408569994.75038.YahooMailNeo@web142301.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: This store usually says where the produce came from, but not in this case. It was much smaller than the typical Pink Lady I'm used to, but clearly the same variety from the skin color. But seemed like it was picked underripe, just no sweet or flavor. I've eaten apples that had been stored too long and were suffering in texture, but this seemed like it never was good. I also don't buy apples (except the new crop from the orchard which is just coming in!) at the store from about May-July, but my family still wants them all the time. Had the first two William's Pride off my tree 2 weeks ago. Fantastic for an early apple! They were big (2.75-3"), slightly tart, crisp enough, and excellent flavor. Yum. -matt z5 se MI On Wed, Aug 20, 2014 at 5:26 PM, Michael Dossett wrote: > Matt, any idea what the country of origin was? That sounds to me like it > is likely to be a broker/marketer problem rather than the grower or > packer. If it's from the northern hemisphere, putting it in storage and > expecting it to be in decent shape after 11 months is a tall order for most > apples, and there is a fair bit of fruit to fruit variability in terms of > exactly how ripe they were when they were picked for how quickly they fall > apart after coming out of storage. Something may be passable on the day > you buy it and be complete garbage a week later. Not to mention there is > no telling how long it has been sitting out of storage in the store before > it even comes home with you. Personally, I would not buy any apples from > the store this time of year until the new crop starts rolling in. My wife > bought some Granny Smith a week or so ago to put on her oatmeal and was > shocked to find that the seeds were starting to sprout inside the apple. I > told her that's what happens when it's been in controlled atmosphere > storage for 11 months and that she should wait another month. You can slow > down the process of the flesh breaking down, but that doesn't mean it's > going to be in decent shape after that long. Nature just didn't intend > them that way! > > Michael > > Michael Dossett > Mission, British Columbia > www.Mdossettphoto.com > phainopepla at yahoo.com > > > On Wednesday, August 20, 2014 2:10 PM, Matt Demmon > wrote: > > > That is very interesting about Pink Lady. No restrictions on growing, but > having to meet certain quality standards to buy into the brand. I would > like that if it actually guaranteed good apples. > > I bought some Pink Lady from a small grocer last week that were terrible, > truly distinctly awful, mushy and flavorless. I wonder if they paid their > license fee. Generally they are quite good for a grocery store apple. > > -matt > z5 SE MI > > > On Wed, Aug 20, 2014 at 4:55 PM, Michael Dossett via nafex < > nafex at lists.ibiblio.org> wrote: > > Melissa, > > Protecting brand recognition is also part of it, though it is secondary to > managing supply. There are several cases where brand protection has been > attempted in apples through the use of trademarked names rather than > limiting supply (in addition to quality) by buying into the club. For > example, Pink Lady is the trademarked name for Cripp's Pink. Pink Lady > sells for a slightly higher price in the store because of the brand > premium, but growers have to pay a licensing fee to be able market their > fruit as Pink Lady and are contractually only allowed to market the high > quality product that way. Lower quality apples may still be sold, but must > be sold/marketed as Cripp's Pink. This protects the brand, but does little > to manage supply and demand when people realize that they are the same > variety. There is even an instance of rebranding where an apple was sold > under one trademarked name and was a flop because of poor quality in the > marketplace, so > they trademarked a second name and began marketing fruit under the new > name, where it was slightly more successful but still never really took > off. Wish I could remember what it was off the top of my head - I may have > to do some digging to figure it out. > > I guess for home gardeners the net result is the same, and it is an > unfortunate trend. The days of publically released varieties are quickly > coming to an end and even non club cultivars of a variety of fruits are > often difficult to obtain because of license restrictions. I suppose the > only consolation is that if it is truly a fantastic variety, it will have > staying power and will still be around and will be more available after the > patent has expired. > > Michael > > > Michael Dossett > Mission, British Columbia > http://www.mdossettphoto.com/ > phainopepla at yahoo.com > > > On Wednesday, August 20, 2014 1:06 PM, Melissa Kacalanos via nafex < > nafex at lists.ibiblio.org> wrote: > > > > It was my understanding that the club varieties are about protecting the > brand name recognition of certain apple varieties. To qualify as a member > of the club, apple farmers don't just pay a licensing fee, but commit to > selling fruit only of a high enough quality to keep the public convinced > that apples of that variety are worth their premium price. The farmers have > to meet some standards of thinning, picking only when actually ripe, proper > storage, and so on. > > Since protecting the perception of their brand name is a major goal, I can > understand why breeders don't want just anyone selling apples by these > trademarked names. It only takes a few badly-grown apples for consumers to > lose faith in the superiority of these trademarked names. And I'm sure they > don't want any wormy backyard amateur apples sullying the good names of > these carefully megafarmed varieties. > > But don't worry, I'm sure these varieties will become available to > everyone as soon as the breeders come up with the latest varieties to > replace them with. > > Melissa > > __________________ > nafex mailing list > nafex at lists.ibiblio.org > subscribe/unsubscribe|user config|list info|make a donation toward list > maintenance: > http://lists.ibiblio.org/mailman/listinfo/nafex > message archives > http://lists.ibiblio.org/pipermail/nafex > Google message archive search: > site: lists.ibiblio.org/pipermail/nafex [searchstring] > nafex list mirror sites: > http://groups.google.com/group/nafexlist > https://sites.google.com/site/nafexmailinglist > Avant Geared http://www.avantgeared.com/ > __________________ > nafex mailing list > nafex at lists.ibiblio.org > subscribe/unsubscribe|user config|list info|make a donation toward list > maintenance: > http://lists.ibiblio.org/mailman/listinfo/nafex > message archives > http://lists.ibiblio.org/pipermail/nafex > Google message archive search: > site: lists.ibiblio.org/pipermail/nafex [searchstring] > nafex list mirror sites: > http://groups.google.com/group/nafexlist > https://sites.google.com/site/nafexmailinglist > Avant Geared http://www.avantgeared.com/ > > > > > From dvidedevo at yahoo.com Wed Aug 20 22:17:48 2014 From: dvidedevo at yahoo.com (Devin Smith) Date: Wed, 20 Aug 2014 19:17:48 -0700 Subject: [nafex] tasty perennial Physalis Message-ID: <1408587468.27838.YahooMailNeo@web160602.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> Glad to see there is some interest around tasty perennial groundcherries, For all of those who inquired, I'm in southern VT USDA zone 5b. I believe the lack of available perennial Physalis species in pretty indicative of the degree of neglect around these fruits. From what I have been able to surmise, there are several "species" of hardy perennial ground cherries. These are mostly considered problematic weeds, rather than useful cropping plants, though clearly a select few are as good as the best "cultivated" form. I've come across several different distinct types in my travels, none of which I am wholly convinced constitutes a "species" as such. It seems that the "annual" types, like Aunt Molly's or Pineapple, may in fact be perennial in the right climate (a warm one). As such, I tend to think of them as perennials grown as annuals, not unlike potatoes. Ripening times for these "annual" types tend toward the fall, suggesting that they come from a place with a relatively long season. The variety I found growing along the stone foundation is truly hardy in this climate, and can be clonally propagated? by its rhizomes. It is beginning to ripen its fruit now, a full month or more before most annual types. I am particularly enamored of this selection because of its highly prostrate form-- only 4" tall, as well as its good flavor and early ripening. It seems to be a pretty unusual find. I wondered if any of you had looked at your local perennial Physalis (they're probably more numerous that you ever thought) to see if there are ones worth growing. I could probably send some rhizomes, or perhaps seeds, to those who are interested.? From rizzolori1 at gmail.com Thu Aug 21 06:42:30 2014 From: rizzolori1 at gmail.com (Lori Rizzo) Date: Thu, 21 Aug 2014 06:42:30 -0400 Subject: [nafex] tasty perennial Physalis In-Reply-To: <1408587468.27838.YahooMailNeo@web160602.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> References: <1408587468.27838.YahooMailNeo@web160602.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: Hi Devin, I'm in Massachusetts and would be very interested in some rhizomes or seeds. I just bought a place last month and am planning my edible forest. Let me know the how, cost, etc., - thanks! Lori On Wed, Aug 20, 2014 at 10:17 PM, Devin Smith via nafex < nafex at lists.ibiblio.org> wrote: > Glad to see there is some interest around tasty perennial groundcherries, > For all of those who inquired, I'm in southern VT USDA zone 5b. I believe > the lack of available perennial Physalis species in pretty indicative of > the degree of neglect around these fruits. From what I have been able to > surmise, there are several "species" of hardy perennial ground cherries. > These are mostly considered problematic weeds, rather than useful cropping > plants, though clearly a select few are as good as the best "cultivated" > form. I've come across several different distinct types in my travels, none > of which I am wholly convinced constitutes a "species" as such. It seems > that the "annual" types, like Aunt Molly's or Pineapple, may in fact be > perennial in the right climate (a warm one). As such, I tend to think of > them as perennials grown as annuals, not unlike potatoes. Ripening times > for these "annual" types tend toward the fall, suggesting that they come > from a place > with a relatively long season. The variety I found growing along the > stone foundation is truly hardy in this climate, and can be clonally > propagated by its rhizomes. It is beginning to ripen its fruit now, a full > month or more before most annual types. I am particularly enamored of this > selection because of its highly prostrate form-- only 4" tall, as well as > its good flavor and early ripening. It seems to be a pretty unusual find. I > wondered if any of you had looked at your local perennial Physalis (they're > probably more numerous that you ever thought) to see if there are ones > worth growing. > > > I could probably send some rhizomes, or perhaps seeds, to those who are > interested. > __________________ > nafex mailing list > nafex at lists.ibiblio.org > subscribe/unsubscribe|user config|list info|make a donation toward list > maintenance: > http://lists.ibiblio.org/mailman/listinfo/nafex > message archives > http://lists.ibiblio.org/pipermail/nafex > Google message archive search: > site: lists.ibiblio.org/pipermail/nafex [searchstring] > nafex list mirror sites: > http://groups.google.com/group/nafexlist > https://sites.google.com/site/nafexmailinglist > Avant Geared http://www.avantgeared.com > -- Lori Rizzo, BSN MBA RN *Healthcare Quality & Performance Improvement* *Behavioral Dog Training & Counseling* *Heirloom & Unusual Vegetable Propagation* *Dedham, MA* *rizzolori1 at gmail.com * From lostman_amiga at yahoo.com Thu Aug 21 21:47:36 2014 From: lostman_amiga at yahoo.com (rob hamilton) Date: Thu, 21 Aug 2014 18:47:36 -0700 Subject: [nafex] tasty perennial Physalis In-Reply-To: References: <1408587468.27838.YahooMailNeo@web160602.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <1408672056.80082.YahooMailNeo@web162301.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> hmmm....do I see a new interest group forming? ? -------------------------------------------- Now Zone 8a!! Atlanta, GA Atlanta Fruits Club ?? ?? http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Atlanta_Fruits/ North American Fruit Explorers (NAFEX) ?? www.NAFEX.org Southern Fruit Fellowship (SFF)? ?? http://southernfruitfellowship.wordpress.com/ Southeastern Palm and Exotic Plant Society (SPEPS) ?? www.sepalms.org California Rare Fruit Growers ?? www.crfg.org My New Blog!! http://atlantafruitman.wordpress.com/ On Thursday, August 21, 2014 6:43 AM, Lori Rizzo wrote: Hi Devin, I'm in Massachusetts and would be very interested in some rhizomes or seeds. I just bought a place last month and am planning my edible forest. Let me know the how, cost, etc., - thanks! Lori On Wed, Aug 20, 2014 at 10:17 PM, Devin Smith via nafex < nafex at lists.ibiblio.org> wrote: > Glad to see there is some interest around tasty perennial groundcherries, > For all of those who inquired, I'm in southern VT USDA zone 5b. I believe > the lack of available perennial Physalis species in pretty indicative of > the degree of neglect around these fruits. From what I have been able to > surmise, there are several "species" of hardy perennial ground cherries. > These are mostly considered problematic weeds, rather than useful cropping > plants, though clearly a select few are as good as the best "cultivated" > form. I've come across several different distinct types in my travels, none > of which I am wholly convinced constitutes a "species" as such. It seems > that the "annual" types, like Aunt Molly's or Pineapple, may in fact be > perennial in the right climate (a warm one). As such, I tend to think of > them as perennials grown as annuals, not unlike potatoes. Ripening times > for these "annual" types tend toward the fall, suggesting that they come > from a place >? with a relatively long season. The variety I found growing along the > stone foundation is truly hardy in this climate, and can be clonally > propagated? by its rhizomes. It is beginning to ripen its fruit now, a full > month or more before most annual types. I am particularly enamored of this > selection because of its highly prostrate form-- only 4" tall, as well as > its good flavor and early ripening. It seems to be a pretty unusual find. I > wondered if any of you had looked at your local perennial Physalis (they're > probably more numerous that you ever thought) to see if there are ones > worth growing. > > > I could probably send some rhizomes, or perhaps seeds, to those who are > interested. > __________________ > nafex mailing list > nafex at lists.ibiblio.org > subscribe/unsubscribe|user config|list info|make a donation toward list > maintenance: > http://lists.ibiblio.org/mailman/listinfo/nafex > message archives > http://lists.ibiblio.org/pipermail/nafex > Google message archive search: > site: lists.ibiblio.org/pipermail/nafex [searchstring] > nafex list mirror sites: > http://groups.google.com/group/nafexlist > https://sites.google.com/site/nafexmailinglist > Avant Geared? http://www.avantgeared.com > -- Lori Rizzo, BSN MBA RN *Healthcare Quality & Performance Improvement* *Behavioral Dog Training & Counseling* *Heirloom & Unusual Vegetable Propagation* *Dedham, MA* *rizzolori1 at gmail.com * __________________ nafex mailing list nafex at lists.ibiblio.org subscribe/unsubscribe|user config|list info|make a donation toward list maintenance: http://lists.ibiblio.org/mailman/listinfo/nafex message archives http://lists.ibiblio.org/pipermail/nafex Google message archive search: site: lists.ibiblio.org/pipermail/nafex [searchstring] nafex list mirror sites: http://groups.google.com/group/nafexlist https://sites.google.com/site/nafexmailinglist Avant Geared? http://www.avantgeared.com From qazingulaza at gmail.com Thu Aug 21 21:54:11 2014 From: qazingulaza at gmail.com (mIEKAL aND) Date: Thu, 21 Aug 2014 20:54:11 -0500 Subject: [nafex] tasty perennial Physalis In-Reply-To: References: <1408587468.27838.YahooMailNeo@web160602.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <9F8F090E-D53E-4513-B379-BA36B953047B@gmail.com> I'm getting a little lost in the discussion. Are the named annual varieties better tasting and sweeter than the wild chinese lantern type? ~mIEKAL On Aug 21, 2014, at 5:42 AM, Lori Rizzo wrote: > Hi Devin, > > I'm in Massachusetts and would be very interested in some rhizomes or > seeds. I just bought a place last month and am planning my edible forest. > > Let me know the how, cost, etc., - thanks! > > Lori > > > On Wed, Aug 20, 2014 at 10:17 PM, Devin Smith via nafex < > nafex at lists.ibiblio.org> wrote: > >> Glad to see there is some interest around tasty perennial groundcherries, >> For all of those who inquired, I'm in southern VT USDA zone 5b. I believe >> the lack of available perennial Physalis species in pretty indicative of >> the degree of neglect around these fruits. From what I have been able to >> surmise, there are several "species" of hardy perennial ground cherries. >> These are mostly considered problematic weeds, rather than useful cropping >> plants, though clearly a select few are as good as the best "cultivated" >> form. I've come across several different distinct types in my travels, none >> of which I am wholly convinced constitutes a "species" as such. It seems >> that the "annual" types, like Aunt Molly's or Pineapple, may in fact be >> perennial in the right climate (a warm one). As such, I tend to think of >> them as perennials grown as annuals, not unlike potatoes. Ripening times >> for these "annual" types tend toward the fall, suggesting that they come >> from a place >> with a relatively long season. The variety I found growing along the >> stone foundation is truly hardy in this climate, and can be clonally >> propagated by its rhizomes. It is beginning to ripen its fruit now, a full >> month or more before most annual types. I am particularly enamored of this >> selection because of its highly prostrate form-- only 4" tall, as well as >> its good flavor and early ripening. It seems to be a pretty unusual find. I >> wondered if any of you had looked at your local perennial Physalis (they're >> probably more numerous that you ever thought) to see if there are ones >> worth growing. >> >> >> I could probably send some rhizomes, or perhaps seeds, to those who are >> interested. >> __________________ >> nafex mailing list >> nafex at lists.ibiblio.org >> subscribe/unsubscribe|user config|list info|make a donation toward list >> maintenance: >> http://lists.ibiblio.org/mailman/listinfo/nafex >> message archives >> http://lists.ibiblio.org/pipermail/nafex >> Google message archive search: >> site: lists.ibiblio.org/pipermail/nafex [searchstring] >> nafex list mirror sites: >> http://groups.google.com/group/nafexlist >> https://sites.google.com/site/nafexmailinglist >> Avant Geared http://www.avantgeared.com >> > > > > -- > Lori Rizzo, BSN MBA RN > *Healthcare Quality & Performance Improvement* > *Behavioral Dog Training & Counseling* > *Heirloom & Unusual Vegetable Propagation* > *Dedham, MA* > *rizzolori1 at gmail.com * > __________________ > nafex mailing list > nafex at lists.ibiblio.org > subscribe/unsubscribe|user config|list info|make a donation toward list maintenance: > http://lists.ibiblio.org/mailman/listinfo/nafex > message archives > http://lists.ibiblio.org/pipermail/nafex > Google message archive search: > site: lists.ibiblio.org/pipermail/nafex [searchstring] > nafex list mirror sites: > http://groups.google.com/group/nafexlist > https://sites.google.com/site/nafexmailinglist > Avant Geared http://www.avantgeared.com From r.fred.bruns at gmail.com Fri Aug 22 13:28:29 2014 From: r.fred.bruns at gmail.com (Robert Bruns) Date: Fri, 22 Aug 2014 13:28:29 -0400 Subject: [nafex] tasty perennial Physalis In-Reply-To: <9F8F090E-D53E-4513-B379-BA36B953047B@gmail.com> References: <1408587468.27838.YahooMailNeo@web160602.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> <9F8F090E-D53E-4513-B379-BA36B953047B@gmail.com> Message-ID: The Chinese Lantern variety is sour and just plain nasty-tasting (I just tried it to confirm that it's not edible, and believe me, it isn't). Some of the named ground cherries are actually quite good, although different people may have different opinions. The ground cherries don't really become sweet until they've fallen from the plant and then sat on the ground until the husk becomes transparent. Fred On 8/21/14, mIEKAL aND wrote: > I'm getting a little lost in the discussion. Are the named annual varieties > better tasting and sweeter than the wild chinese lantern type? > > ~mIEKAL > > > On Aug 21, 2014, at 5:42 AM, Lori Rizzo wrote: > >> Hi Devin, >> >> I'm in Massachusetts and would be very interested in some rhizomes or >> seeds. I just bought a place last month and am planning my edible forest. >> >> Let me know the how, cost, etc., - thanks! >> >> Lori >> >> >> On Wed, Aug 20, 2014 at 10:17 PM, Devin Smith via nafex < >> nafex at lists.ibiblio.org> wrote: >> >>> Glad to see there is some interest around tasty perennial >>> groundcherries, >>> For all of those who inquired, I'm in southern VT USDA zone 5b. I >>> believe >>> the lack of available perennial Physalis species in pretty indicative of >>> the degree of neglect around these fruits. From what I have been able to >>> surmise, there are several "species" of hardy perennial ground cherries. >>> These are mostly considered problematic weeds, rather than useful >>> cropping >>> plants, though clearly a select few are as good as the best "cultivated" >>> form. I've come across several different distinct types in my travels, >>> none >>> of which I am wholly convinced constitutes a "species" as such. It seems >>> that the "annual" types, like Aunt Molly's or Pineapple, may in fact be >>> perennial in the right climate (a warm one). As such, I tend to think of >>> them as perennials grown as annuals, not unlike potatoes. Ripening times >>> for these "annual" types tend toward the fall, suggesting that they come >>> from a place >>> with a relatively long season. The variety I found growing along the >>> stone foundation is truly hardy in this climate, and can be clonally >>> propagated by its rhizomes. It is beginning to ripen its fruit now, a >>> full >>> month or more before most annual types. I am particularly enamored of >>> this >>> selection because of its highly prostrate form-- only 4" tall, as well >>> as >>> its good flavor and early ripening. It seems to be a pretty unusual find. >>> I >>> wondered if any of you had looked at your local perennial Physalis >>> (they're >>> probably more numerous that you ever thought) to see if there are ones >>> worth growing. >>> >>> >>> I could probably send some rhizomes, or perhaps seeds, to those who are >>> interested. >>> __________________ >>> nafex mailing list >>> nafex at lists.ibiblio.org >>> subscribe/unsubscribe|user config|list info|make a donation toward list >>> maintenance: >>> http://lists.ibiblio.org/mailman/listinfo/nafex >>> message archives >>> http://lists.ibiblio.org/pipermail/nafex >>> Google message archive search: >>> site: lists.ibiblio.org/pipermail/nafex [searchstring] >>> nafex list mirror sites: >>> http://groups.google.com/group/nafexlist >>> https://sites.google.com/site/nafexmailinglist >>> Avant Geared http://www.avantgeared.com >>> >> >> >> >> -- >> Lori Rizzo, BSN MBA RN >> *Healthcare Quality & Performance Improvement* >> *Behavioral Dog Training & Counseling* >> *Heirloom & Unusual Vegetable Propagation* >> *Dedham, MA* >> *rizzolori1 at gmail.com * >> __________________ >> nafex mailing list >> nafex at lists.ibiblio.org >> subscribe/unsubscribe|user config|list info|make a donation toward list >> maintenance: >> http://lists.ibiblio.org/mailman/listinfo/nafex >> message archives >> http://lists.ibiblio.org/pipermail/nafex >> Google message archive search: >> site: lists.ibiblio.org/pipermail/nafex [searchstring] >> nafex list mirror sites: >> http://groups.google.com/group/nafexlist >> https://sites.google.com/site/nafexmailinglist >> Avant Geared http://www.avantgeared.com > > __________________ > nafex mailing list > nafex at lists.ibiblio.org > subscribe/unsubscribe|user config|list info|make a donation toward list > maintenance: > http://lists.ibiblio.org/mailman/listinfo/nafex > message archives > http://lists.ibiblio.org/pipermail/nafex > Google message archive search: > site: lists.ibiblio.org/pipermail/nafex [searchstring] > nafex list mirror sites: > http://groups.google.com/group/nafexlist > https://sites.google.com/site/nafexmailinglist > Avant Geared http://www.avantgeared.com > From sam.brungardt at state.mn.us Fri Aug 22 15:13:58 2014 From: sam.brungardt at state.mn.us (Brungardt, Sam (MPCA)) Date: Fri, 22 Aug 2014 19:13:58 +0000 Subject: [nafex] This Berry Is Causing A Super-Food War Between America and Canada (Time magazine) Message-ID: <1268E36B214F7D4F968B0285BF5CF3E4052FDFE8@055-CH1MPN1-031.055d.mgd.msft.net> This Berry Is Causing A Super-Food War Between America and Canada TIME A fruit picker holds a quart basket of Saskatoon berries at G&S Orchards in Walworth, N.Y. on June 26, 2013 . Jim Ochterski-AP ... Saskatoon: The Berry That Became an International Incident - TIME From dwoodard at becon.org Mon Aug 25 08:53:42 2014 From: dwoodard at becon.org (dwoodard at becon.org) Date: Mon, 25 Aug 2014 08:53:42 -0400 Subject: [nafex] [ARTICLE] Apple literature in English, listing Message-ID: <2ba30e6cafd5d20c763abbe4d688bce8@becon.org> See From 1900 only North American titles are listed; also titles on "fruit" which include apples among other fruits, are not listed. Doug Woodard St. Catharines, Ontario, Canada From jbarbowski at gmail.com Tue Aug 26 12:42:57 2014 From: jbarbowski at gmail.com (John Barbowski) Date: Tue, 26 Aug 2014 12:42:57 -0400 Subject: [nafex] Black Currents Message-ID: *Interesting occurrence.* *About 4 years ago in Sept, I shipped some rooted black current cuttings (Ben Sarek and Ben Lomond) to friends in Kenora Ontario, Cdn Zone 3. The currents do well here in Thornhill, Zone 6b.* *I was visiting last week and checked the current bushes, a plot about 8 ft wide and 3 ft across. Because of the zone differential, last years cold winter and the age of the bushes, I didn't expect much. Also, my currents were harvested in early August; they were very ripe at the time.* *To my surprise, the pics in the web site below displays the production - enough for 10 jars (250 ml) of low sugar, pamona pectin black current jam.* *My friend said that one type of current, he didn't keep notes, didn't do well, most plants dying the 1st winter; the other, obviously okay . The berries were very large, the plants not as vigorous as mine and the berries not as prolific. But still a nice surprise.* *john b* *http://s217.photobucket.com/user/JBarbowski/library/Black%20Currents * From ehilborn at mebtel.net Sun Aug 31 12:01:05 2014 From: ehilborn at mebtel.net (Elizabeth Hilborn) Date: Sun, 31 Aug 2014 09:01:05 -0700 Subject: [nafex] jujube fruit-pits In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <540346C1.7090808@mebtel.net> Has anyone tried using a cherry pitter to remove the pit from jujubes? Or is there another easier method than hand pitting each fruit? Betsy Hilborn 7a NC