permaculture

[Michael Elvin <marimike6@yahoo.com>]

"America and Russia, thugs in China and Iran, others in the middle east and
the far east. Those who want to blame America for all that they see as evil
in the world really should try to make a go of it in some other country
where your wildest fantasies of oppression would surely come true. This is
my standard boilerplate reply to the America haters with an extra layer of
icing for those ingrates who actually live there."
I see your point, Lawrence. But it's not a matter of blaming, or hating, 
America. Regardless of whether life in the US may be a little easier than 
life in some other country, if we take a position of being pro-American we 
tend to become a little anti-everyone else (the "thugs"). And so the wars 
will continue, with one nation fighting another in the name of peace. I was 
hoping instead to lead the discussion toward a place where there were no big 
winners, and so no big losers.  Call it an egalitarian society, or one closer 
to the anarchic ideal. And toward such an end, the ambitions of the current 
leading contenders for mastery of the planet (the leaders of our Great War on 
Terror) should in my mind be curbed. Otherwise their most successful 
politicians will end up controlling us all. 
~~~~~~~
Your other suggestion, of propagating worker-owned co-ops, is a fine one. 
Instead of the old model, where the owners battle the workers and either 
Capitalism or Communism wins the game, you have a condition where no battle 
is possible-- the owners and the workers are the same people. Every time they 
hold a meeting they decide how much of the profits get put into their own 
pockets and how much get plowed back into the company they all jointly own.
Mondragon. It's the wave of the future. But it needs both worker education 
and seed money. 

    On Thursday, August 4, 2016 12:02 PM, Lawrence London 
<lfljvenaura@gmail.com> wrote:
 

 On Thu, Aug 4, 2016 at 11:36 AM, Georg Parlow <g.parlow@gmx.at> wrote:
M.E. writes:

> > That scenario makes real solutions easier to see. More acceptance of the
> need for birth control, and greater redistribution of concentrated wealth.
> Those would be my own starting priorities.
>
> GP writes:

> Correct me if I am wrong, but in my eyes these are not "real solutions",
> but just pipe dreams once again. Or else - how actually DO you start on
> these?


Without birth cntrol the Earth would be overrun with people in numbers well
beyond the carrying capacity of Earth. When that happens and noone is
willing to feed, house and take care of the excess population enter the
fascists and we know what their methods of population control are.

"Greater distribution of concentrated wealth" is easily accomplished with
self-starters, motivated people who take responsibility for their well
being by establishing Mondragon format production cooperatives, intentional
communities with shared basic resources and on and on and on. I have posted
my ideas about this a hundred times in this list, even a special version
for you, Georg, for your community work in Austria. I like the idea of a
services and production networking, marketing and distribution system with
nodes all across a country, connected by the Internet using free, easy to
set up and maintain resources.

LL


-- 
Lawrence F. London
lfljvenaura@gmail.com
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On Thu, Aug 4, 2016 at 1:02 PM, Michael Elvin <marimike6@yahoo.com> wrote:

> , if we take a position of being pro-American we tend to become a little
> anti-everyone else (the "thugs").

No we do not, maybe you. Who exactly are you referring to?

> And so the wars will continue,

No they won't. Only the America haters want that so they will have adequate
raison d'etre or whatever
banner they want to rally behind for whatever cause, usually puffing smoke
up someone's at best as far as I can tell.

--
Lawrence F. London
lfljvenaura@gmail.com
https://sites.google.com/site/avantgeared
https://plus.google.com/u/0/b/116100117925365792988/+Avantgeared/posts
http://lists.ibiblio.org/mailman/listinfo/orangegrapevine
https://ello.co/lflondon <https://ello.co/permaculture>
https://ello.co/permaculture
https://lists.ibiblio.org/sympa/arc/permaculture