permaculture

[Jay Woods <woodsjaya@gmail.com>]

I'm not sure what photo you are looking at. Try looking at Zillow:
1542 Holbrook Bluffs Ct, NV
http://www.zillow.com/homes/1542-Holbrook-bluff-ct,-nv_rb/

On Friday, January 10, 2014 10:10:39 AM Neil Bertrando wrote:
> assuming your place is like the photo...
> 
> you might be able to do something similar to SALT using contour post
> hedgerows to build up sediment and mulch, or rock mulch on contour again 
to
> build up terraces over time.  dependent on sediment and water supply (rate
> and qty).
> 
> I think planting pickets or moving rocks by hand on steep slopes fits the
> category of hard labor
> 
> On Wed, Jan 8, 2014 at 7:04 AM, Jay Woods <woodsjaya@gmail.com> wrote:
> > That is because there is a hidden variable here. In order to maintain my
> > health I must put in an hour of hard labor per day. I choose to do it
> > building
> > up something "extremely detail intensive, technically difficult
> > terraforming"
> > that requires a lot of hard labor. The same amount of love could be
> > lavished
> > on house building but on a limited budget and for scope, the terraforming
> > uses
> > up more time for the same level of pretty.
> > 
> > I am not advocating terraforming 40 acres - that amount of ground will be
> > left
> > in pinyon pines and nut gathering in mild competition to the pinyon jays.
> > I am
> > expecting to terrace an acre around the house for a food forest.
> > 
> > On Tuesday, January 07, 2014 07:34:15 PM Neil Bertrando wrote:
> > > seems like diminishing returns to me.  why not leave the land for bird
> > > nesting and other wildlife use that can be harvested by less intensive
> > > means than extremely detail intensive, technically difficult
> > 
> > terraforming?
> > 
> > > least change for greatest effect type of application in my opinion.
> > > 
> > > this is the type of scenario I'd run through a land components analysis
> > 
> > and
> > 
> > > triple check for type I errors before doing something.
> > > 
> > > 
> > > On Tue, Jan 7, 2014 at 6:34 PM, Pete Gasper, Gasper Family Farm <
> > > 
> > > farmer1@gasperfarm.com> wrote:
> > > > Look into the terracing construction methods of the Inca's. Sounds
> > 
> > similar
> > 
> > > > to the things Lawrence discusses for the Asian terrases and maybe 
more
> > > > along
> > > > the lines of the solution you need.
> > > > 
> > > > They were creating productive terracing systems on what for all
> > 
> > intensive
> > 
> > > > purposes looks like near vertical rocky slopes.
> > > > 
> > > > On 01/07/2014 10:14 AM, Jay Woods wrote:
> > > > > I appreciate the effort you went through to get the references. I
> > 
> > have
> > 
> > > > read them all.
> > > > 
> > > > > But (he wrote with a smile) they are not designed for my 
constraints:
> > > > thin soil, steep
> > > > 
> > > > > slopes, little water, and 30 miles to the nearest Keystone paver.
> > > > > The
> > > > 
> > > > following gives an
> > > > 
> > > > > idea of the lay of the land:
> > > > >       *  http://www.inmagine.com/imb091/imb0910770-photo
> > > > > 
> > > > > Unfortunately, the rock formations are not layer cake geology either
> > > > 
> > > > here in Nevada in
> > > > 
> > > > > the basin and range province.  The closest I have been able to come
> > 
> > to
> > 
> > > > techniques is:
> > > > >       *
> > > > 
> > > > http://www.merip.org/mer/mer254/water-conflict-cooperation-yemen
> > > > 
> > > > > Unfortunately, the water rights have been stripped from the land 
and
> > > > 
> > > > well drilling is not
> > > > 
> > > > > an option. The article plainly indicates that it wasn't much of a
> > > > 
> > > > solution anyway.
> > > > 
> > > > > Somehow I need to build terrace walls that are sealed against water
> > > > 
> > > > leakage and that
> > > > 
> > > > > insulate enough that cold weather won't heave the walls using only
> > > > 
> > > > readily available
> > > > 
> > > > > local materials which means rocks, dirt, and pinyon pine and plenty
> > 
> > of
> > 
> > > > hand labor. As I
> > > > 
> > > > > am used to mining, converting some of the local limestone to
> > 
> > quicklime
> > 
> > > > has never
> > > > 
> > > > > been a difficult task.
> > > > > 
> > > > > On Monday, January 06, 2014 08:05:01 PM Neil Bertrando wrote:
> > > > >> In general for construction, earthworks and other technical
> > 
> > information
> > 
> > > > >> require detailed calculations, specs, design parameters, etc.  I
> > 
> > refer
> > 
> > > > to
> > > > 
> > > > >> FAO, NRCS, engineering, and construction references.
> > > > >> 
> > > > >> you might also consider utilizing the keyline design system for
> > 
> > layout.
> > 
> > > > >> Here's a list of resources.  hope it helps.
> > > > >> 
> > > > >> Soil conservation techniques for hillside farms
> > 
> > http://www.nzdl.org/gsdlmod?e=d-00000-00---off-0hdl--00-0----0-10-0---0--->
> >  > >
> > 
> > > 0d
> > 
> > irect-10---4-------0-1l--11-en-50---20-home---00-0-1-00-0-0-11-1-0utfZz-8-
> > 
> > > > 00>
> > > > 
> > > > >> &cl=CL1.16.9&d=HASHbdde2fe3749493c1a0de2d.1&gt=2
> > > > >> 
> > > > >> NRCS engineering field manual chapter 8 Terraces
> > 
> > http://irrigationtoolbox.com/NEH/Part650_EngineeringFieldHandbook/EFH-CH08
> > 
> > > > .p>
> > > > 
> > > > >> df
> > > > >> 
> > > > >> FAO Watershed mgmt field manual ch 9
> > > > >> http://www.fao.org/docrep/006/ad083e/ad083e10.htm
> > > > >> 
> > > > >> FAO Irrigation Water mgmt: Irrigation methods
> > > > >> http://www.fao.org/docrep/s8684e/s8684e03.htm
> > > > >> 
> > > > >> bench terrace design made simple
> > 
> > 
http://tucson.ars.ag.gov/isco/isco12/VolumeIV/BenchTerraceDesignMadeSimple
> > 
> > > > .p>
> > > > 
> > > > >> df
> > > > >> 
> > > > >> FAO Watershed mgmt field manual ch 6
> > > > >> http://www.fao.org/docrep/006/ad083e/ad083e07.htm
> > > > >> 
> > > > >> FAO Watershed mgmt field manual ch 8
> > > > >> http://www.fao.org/docrep/006/ad083e/AD083e09.htm
> > > > >> 
> > > > >> retaining wall manual for Keystone pavers
> > > > >> http://www.keystonewalls.com/media/Literature/ConstManual.pdf
> > > > >> 
> > > > >> Am Soc of Ag engineers terrace manual.  not able to access but
> > > > >> would
> > > > 
> > > > like to
> > 
> > http://elibrary.asabe.org/abstract.asp?aid=41193&t=2&redir=&redirType=
> > 
> > > > >> On Mon, Jan 6, 2014 at 12:09 PM, Jay 
Woods<woodsjaya@gmail.com>
> > 
> > wrote:
> > > > >>> I'd like to try terracing on 5 acres of hillside here in Nevada.
> > 
> > It is
> > 
> > > > dry
> > > > 
> > > > >>> country so the water table needs to be perched in each terrace. 
Do
> > 
> > you
> > 
> > > > >>> have
> > > > >>> any sources on their construction? I remember seeing terracing
> > > > >>> used
> > > > 
> > > > under
> > > > 
> > > > >>> these conditions in the Mid-East.
> > > > >>> 
> > > > >>> On Monday, January 06, 2014 12:24:21 PM Lawrence London 
wrote:
> > > > >>>> On Mon, Jan 6, 2014 at 10:38 AM, Pete Gasper, Gasper Family
> > 
> > Farm<
> > 
> > > > >>>> farmer1@gasperfarm.com>  wrote:
> > > > >>>>> What kind of soil is underneath those fields? Here in America
> > 
> > we'd
> > 
> > > > >>>>> consider
> > > > >>>>> that too steep to plant or do much anything with besides 
maybe
> > > > >>>>> cattle
> > > > >>> 
> > > > >>> or
> > > > >>> 
> > > > >>>>> scrub timber. But then you can't run a combine with a 30' 
header
> > > > >>> 
> > > > >>> across it
> > > > >>> 
> > > > >>>>> and our soils of such geography tend to have stone a few 
inches
> > > > >>>>> down.
> > > > >>> 
> > > > >>> But
> > > > >>> 
> > > > >>>>> I
> > > > >>>>> wonder if human scale agriculture could radically expend food
> > > > >>> 
> > > > >>> production
> > > > >>> 
> > > > >>>>> here via methods like that.
> > > > >>>>> 
> > > > >>>>   The amount of planning that goes into the design, 
construction
> > 
> > and
> > 
> > > > soil
> > > > 
> > > > >>>> preparation of those terraces is incredible. I read an article on
> > 
> > a
> > 
> > > > >>>> group
> > > > >>>> that rebuilt some that had been damaged from erosion when 
the
> > 
> > walls
> > 
> > > > >>>> collapsed. I guess construction methods vary according to
> > 
> > materials
> > 
> > > > >>>> available on site but usually a lot of dry-laid stonework goes
> > 
> > into
> > 
> > > > the
> > > > 
> > > > >>>> foundation of each terrace wall. Drainage and wall 
reinforcement
> > 
> > is
> > 
> > > > part
> > > > 
> > > > >>> of
> > > > >>> 
> > > > >>>> the process. I think some Asian rice terraces date back 
thousands
> > 
> > of
> > 
> > > > >>> years.
> > > > >>> 
> > > > >>>> The steep terrain was all the people had to work with, little or
> > 
> > no
> > 
> > > > flat
> > > > 
> > > > >>>> land. Here in the US the best farmland, prime, not marginal,
> > 
> > should
> > 
> > > > >>>> be
> > > > >>>> protected from development and made available for 
agricultural
> > 
> > use
> > 
> > > > only
> > > > 
> > > > >>>> employing natural methods and materials and permaculture.
> > > > >>>> 
> > > > >>>> There is no reason that prime farm soil on hilly terrain could
> > 
> > not be
> > 
> > > > >>>> terraced and farmed productively. Depending on slope 
techniques
> > 
> > using
> > 
> > > > >>>> Yeoman Keyline plows to backhoes, to skid loaders to track
> > > > >>>> loaters
> > 
> > to
> > 
> > > > >>> track
> > > > >>> 
> > > > >>>> hoes could be used. Water would be a big issue and 
impoundments
> > 
> > would
> > 
> > > > be
> > > > 
> > > > >>>> necessary. I am talking about earthworks only, without any
> > > > >>>> masonry
> > > > >>>> components unless they are abundant on site and can be used 
in
> > 
> > situ
> > 
> > > > >>>> along
> > > > >>>> with the soil used to build the earthworks. An in depth
> > 
> > permaculture
> > 
> > > > >>>> systems design could be created using polyculture, livestock,
> > 
> > fish,
> > 
> > > > >>>> crustaceans, crop diversity, post harvest methods that recycle
> > > > >>> 
> > > > >>> byproducts,
> > > > >>> 
> > > > >>>> chinampas, all ideas taken from certain terraced regions in the
> > > > >>> 
> > > > >>> Phillipines
> > > > >>> 
> > > > >>>> where permaculture is practiced traditionally and is the de 
facto
> > > > >>> 
> > > > >>> standard
> > 
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> Permaculture: -- portal to an expanding global network of landtech pioneers
> -- who are designing ecological land use systems with integrated elements
> for synergy, sustainability, regeneration and enhanced nature-compatible
> human habitat