permaculture

[Jay Woods <woodsjaya@gmail.com>]

That is because there is a hidden variable here. In order to maintain my 
health I must put in an hour of hard labor per day. I choose to do it 
building 
up something "extremely detail intensive, technically difficult terraforming" 
that requires a lot of hard labor. The same amount of love could be lavished 
on house building but on a limited budget and for scope, the terraforming 
uses 
up more time for the same level of pretty. 

I am not advocating terraforming 40 acres - that amount of ground will be 
left 
in pinyon pines and nut gathering in mild competition to the pinyon jays. I 
am 
expecting to terrace an acre around the house for a food forest. 

On Tuesday, January 07, 2014 07:34:15 PM Neil Bertrando wrote:
> seems like diminishing returns to me.  why not leave the land for bird
> nesting and other wildlife use that can be harvested by less intensive
> means than extremely detail intensive, technically difficult terraforming?
> 
> least change for greatest effect type of application in my opinion.
> 
> this is the type of scenario I'd run through a land components analysis and
> triple check for type I errors before doing something.
> 
> 
> On Tue, Jan 7, 2014 at 6:34 PM, Pete Gasper, Gasper Family Farm <
> 
> farmer1@gasperfarm.com> wrote:
> > Look into the terracing construction methods of the Inca's. Sounds similar
> > to the things Lawrence discusses for the Asian terrases and maybe more
> > along
> > the lines of the solution you need.
> > 
> > They were creating productive terracing systems on what for all intensive
> > purposes looks like near vertical rocky slopes.
> > 
> > On 01/07/2014 10:14 AM, Jay Woods wrote:
> > > I appreciate the effort you went through to get the references. I have
> > 
> > read them all.
> > 
> > > But (he wrote with a smile) they are not designed for my constraints:
> > thin soil, steep
> > 
> > > slopes, little water, and 30 miles to the nearest Keystone paver. The
> > 
> > following gives an
> > 
> > > idea of the lay of the land:
> > >       *  http://www.inmagine.com/imb091/imb0910770-photo
> > > 
> > > Unfortunately, the rock formations are not layer cake geology either
> > 
> > here in Nevada in
> > 
> > > the basin and range province.  The closest I have been able to come to
> > 
> > techniques is:
> > >       *
> > 
> > http://www.merip.org/mer/mer254/water-conflict-cooperation-yemen
> > 
> > > Unfortunately, the water rights have been stripped from the land and
> > 
> > well drilling is not
> > 
> > > an option. The article plainly indicates that it wasn't much of a
> > 
> > solution anyway.
> > 
> > > Somehow I need to build terrace walls that are sealed against water
> > 
> > leakage and that
> > 
> > > insulate enough that cold weather won't heave the walls using only
> > 
> > readily available
> > 
> > > local materials which means rocks, dirt, and pinyon pine and plenty of
> > 
> > hand labor. As I
> > 
> > > am used to mining, converting some of the local limestone to quicklime
> > 
> > has never
> > 
> > > been a difficult task.
> > > 
> > > On Monday, January 06, 2014 08:05:01 PM Neil Bertrando wrote:
> > >> In general for construction, earthworks and other technical information
> > >> require detailed calculations, specs, design parameters, etc.  I refer
> > 
> > to
> > 
> > >> FAO, NRCS, engineering, and construction references.
> > >> 
> > >> you might also consider utilizing the keyline design system for layout.
> > >> 
> > >> Here's a list of resources.  hope it helps.
> > >> 
> > >> Soil conservation techniques for hillside farms
> > 
> > http://www.nzdl.org/gsdlmod?e=d-00000-00---off-0hdl--00-0----0-10-0---0--->
> >  > 0d
> > 
> > irect-10---4-------0-1l--11-en-50---20-home---00-0-1-00-0-0-11-1-0utfZz-8-
> > 00> 
> > >> &cl=CL1.16.9&d=HASHbdde2fe3749493c1a0de2d.1&gt=2
> > >> 
> > >> NRCS engineering field manual chapter 8 Terraces
> > 
> > http://irrigationtoolbox.com/NEH/Part650_EngineeringFieldHandbook/EFH-CH08
> > .p> 
> > >> df
> > >> 
> > >> FAO Watershed mgmt field manual ch 9
> > >> http://www.fao.org/docrep/006/ad083e/ad083e10.htm
> > >> 
> > >> FAO Irrigation Water mgmt: Irrigation methods
> > >> http://www.fao.org/docrep/s8684e/s8684e03.htm
> > >> 
> > >> bench terrace design made simple
> > 
> > 
http://tucson.ars.ag.gov/isco/isco12/VolumeIV/BenchTerraceDesignMadeSimple
> > .p> 
> > >> df
> > >> 
> > >> FAO Watershed mgmt field manual ch 6
> > >> http://www.fao.org/docrep/006/ad083e/ad083e07.htm
> > >> 
> > >> FAO Watershed mgmt field manual ch 8
> > >> http://www.fao.org/docrep/006/ad083e/AD083e09.htm
> > >> 
> > >> retaining wall manual for Keystone pavers
> > >> http://www.keystonewalls.com/media/Literature/ConstManual.pdf
> > >> 
> > >> Am Soc of Ag engineers terrace manual.  not able to access but would
> > 
> > like to
> > 
> > >> 
http://elibrary.asabe.org/abstract.asp?aid=41193&t=2&redir=&redirType=
> > >> 
> > >> On Mon, Jan 6, 2014 at 12:09 PM, Jay Woods<woodsjaya@gmail.com>  
wrote:
> > >>> I'd like to try terracing on 5 acres of hillside here in Nevada. It is
> > 
> > dry
> > 
> > >>> country so the water table needs to be perched in each terrace. Do 
you
> > >>> have
> > >>> any sources on their construction? I remember seeing terracing used
> > 
> > under
> > 
> > >>> these conditions in the Mid-East.
> > >>> 
> > >>> On Monday, January 06, 2014 12:24:21 PM Lawrence London wrote:
> > >>>> On Mon, Jan 6, 2014 at 10:38 AM, Pete Gasper, Gasper Family 
Farm<
> > >>>> 
> > >>>> farmer1@gasperfarm.com>  wrote:
> > >>>>> What kind of soil is underneath those fields? Here in America we'd
> > >>>>> consider
> > >>>>> that too steep to plant or do much anything with besides maybe
> > >>>>> cattle
> > >>> 
> > >>> or
> > >>> 
> > >>>>> scrub timber. But then you can't run a combine with a 30' header
> > >>> 
> > >>> across it
> > >>> 
> > >>>>> and our soils of such geography tend to have stone a few inches
> > >>>>> down.
> > >>> 
> > >>> But
> > >>> 
> > >>>>> I
> > >>>>> wonder if human scale agriculture could radically expend food
> > >>> 
> > >>> production
> > >>> 
> > >>>>> here via methods like that.
> > >>>>> 
> > >>>>   The amount of planning that goes into the design, construction 
and
> > 
> > soil
> > 
> > >>>> preparation of those terraces is incredible. I read an article on a
> > >>>> group
> > >>>> that rebuilt some that had been damaged from erosion when the 
walls
> > >>>> collapsed. I guess construction methods vary according to 
materials
> > >>>> available on site but usually a lot of dry-laid stonework goes into
> > 
> > the
> > 
> > >>>> foundation of each terrace wall. Drainage and wall reinforcement is
> > 
> > part
> > 
> > >>> of
> > >>> 
> > >>>> the process. I think some Asian rice terraces date back thousands 
of
> > >>> 
> > >>> years.
> > >>> 
> > >>>> The steep terrain was all the people had to work with, little or no
> > 
> > flat
> > 
> > >>>> land. Here in the US the best farmland, prime, not marginal, should
> > >>>> be
> > >>>> protected from development and made available for agricultural 
use
> > 
> > only
> > 
> > >>>> employing natural methods and materials and permaculture.
> > >>>> 
> > >>>> There is no reason that prime farm soil on hilly terrain could not be
> > >>>> terraced and farmed productively. Depending on slope techniques 
using
> > >>>> Yeoman Keyline plows to backhoes, to skid loaders to track loaters 
to
> > >>> 
> > >>> track
> > >>> 
> > >>>> hoes could be used. Water would be a big issue and impoundments 
would
> > 
> > be
> > 
> > >>>> necessary. I am talking about earthworks only, without any masonry
> > >>>> components unless they are abundant on site and can be used in 
situ
> > >>>> along
> > >>>> with the soil used to build the earthworks. An in depth permaculture
> > >>>> systems design could be created using polyculture, livestock, fish,
> > >>>> crustaceans, crop diversity, post harvest methods that recycle
> > >>> 
> > >>> byproducts,
> > >>> 
> > >>>> chinampas, all ideas taken from certain terraced regions in the
> > >>> 
> > >>> Phillipines
> > >>> 
> > >>>> where permaculture is practiced traditionally and is the de facto
> > >>> 
> > >>> standard
> > >