permaculture

[Nick Ritar <nick@milkwood.net>]

>
> Read Mollison's Permaculture Designer's Manual. This is where it all
> begins. Lawton is a student of a student of Mollison.


Geoff Lawton is a student of Mollison...  and he has also regularly
co-taught with Mollison

Small point... may just have been a typo :)

Cheers
Nick Ritar

Milkwood Permaculture
http://www.milkwood.net



On Mon, Dec 31, 2012 at 12:09 PM, venaurafarm 
<venaurafarm@bellsouth.net>wrote:

> On 12/30/2012 4:01 PM, paul wheaton wrote:
> > Yesterday we recorded a podcast review of Geoff Lawton's Introduction
> > to Permaculture DVD.  In the beginning was a bit about the ethics.
>
> Read Mollison's Permaculture Designer's Manual. This is where it all
> begins. Lawton is a student of a student of Mollison.
>
> > And I had to wonder:  where are there examples of people doing
> > permaculture, but because of the lack of ethics, things didn't turn
> > out.  Things were bad.   The person is still calling it permaculture,
> > but it is now awful due to the lack of ethics.
>
> That is ridiculous. Is this some sort of object lesson? It bears little
> relation to the reality of, for example, the majority of the subscribers
> to this list, who are essentially field workers, doing that their own
> way in their own time, usually without any consideration of
> remuneration. They take something out that they need and put something
> back for others to use. This is the principle that made the Web/Internet
> what it is, essentially open source information sharing within an open
> society. How many billionaires participate in this system? Often is it
> is a case of need that drives people to embrace the Permaculture three
> ethics. They work, they make sense and they are important. One needs to
> broadminded, think things through deeply
> and be open to sources of inspiration.
>
> > So then that situation can have "care of the earth; care of the
> > people; return of surplus to the first two" and everything becomes
> > right as rain.
>
> > I have yet to fathom even one realistic scenario.
>
> You write it off completely without a good brainstorming session?
>
> > I do see people using the three ethics (and mostly, twisted
> > variations) as a weapon to get other people to comply with ...
> > whatever.  But in those scenarios, my impression has been that the bad
> > guys are the ones screaming the ethics, while the decent folks are
> > being screamed at.
>
> Ridiculous, divisive and nonessential point.
> You need to meet more people practicing and professionally involved with
> permaculture. Take a good look at Andrew Millison's work. He is a
> brilliant, multi-talented young man conducting many PDC courses and is
> involved in local, community-based projects and activism.
>
> > Granted, there are bad guys out there doing bad things.  And most of
> > the worst have never ever heard of permaculture.  And I feel like a
> > bit of ethics could help the situation.   But I doubt I will ever get
> > a chance to talk about ethics with them.
>
> How lucky you are to not have to deal with them.
>
> > As for billionaires:  I guess I'm in a weird position where it doesn't
> > bother me that somebody has a billion dollars lying around.  What
> > bothers me is if a person got a billion dollars through unethical
> > behavior.
>
> As I see it the thing about an increasing number of billionaires and
> multi-millionaries is that you do not often read about any of them using
> their money to do really incredible things.
>
>
> 1) money donated for medical research may be an exception to this
>
> 2) why not take large sums of money and buy prime farmland with adequate
> water resources and favorable climate at locations around the USA. On
> them create communities of like-minded people with the cornerstones, the
> establishment of centers for the study and development of permaculture
> and natural agriculture.
> Examples: Arcosanti, The Shakers, The Amish and Mennonites, The Farm and
> other intentional communities.
>
> > I suppose there are many schools of thought around the permaculture
> > ethics.  And around the billionaires thing.   I suppose it is possible
> > that I am even the only person that is keen on permaculture that feels
> > this way on these two topics.  I am grateful for the opportunity to
> > express my position.
>
> I, for one, am grateful to hear your opinion.
>
> LL
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-- 
nick ritar
Milkwood Permaculture
Ph: 02 6373 7763 / 0412 714 884
<http://www.milkwoodpermaculture.com.au/courses>

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