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  • From: "John D'hondt" <dhondt@eircom.net>
  • To: "permaculture" <permaculture@lists.ibiblio.org>
  • Subject: Re: [permaculture] Humus
  • Date: Wed, 16 Nov 2011 23:15:22 -0000

There are a few general comments possible Dieter :
- humus is formed by microorganisms in the soil direct or in the gut of earthworms, that does not really count as having gone through an animal organism imo
- the big difference between organic material made from plants or from animal manure is that plants are generally much less sensitive than animals in case of severe mineral deficiencies. To do well animals must have all nutrioents in abundance and their manure will then also be richer in nutrients than pure plant compost.
Especially ruminants will forage as far and wide as possible to get everything they need. If your flock is healthy their manure should be superior to compost made from plant waste from the very spot you are going to use that compost again.
-if you don't have animals you could perhaps use seaweed or other sea minerals incorporated in compost. Or you could do both.
john

Subject: Re: [permaculture] Humus


The reason I ask is that I’m interested in the question of whether there is any qualitative difference in soil or in the plants growing in that soil depending on whether the soil is fed with organic matter from an animal or from a plant source. But the issue is probably more or less academic because, even if we don’t use animal manure, most plant materials are broken down by soil organisms including earthworms, microbes and many others. Therefore, it is probably impossible in real-life soil to find any plant material that has not gone through an animal organism.

Cheers,
Dieter


--- On Tue, 11/15/11, John D'hondt <dhondt@eircom.net> wrote:

From: John D'hondt <dhondt@eircom.net>
Subject: Re: [permaculture] Humus
To: "permaculture" <permaculture@lists.ibiblio.org>
Date: Tuesday, November 15, 2011, 7:44 PM

Sorry Dieter,

The only reference I have at hand would be from Odums,
"Fundamentals of
ecology" a book that is never far from my hand. As Lawrence
knows, I am very
bad in keeping track of everything I read otherwise. I
spend an hour or two
on the PC every day during which time I read hundreds of
pages. I simply
can't keep track of sources for that would mean keeping
many megabytes every
day.
I tend to remember ideas but forget about autor's names or
where they wrote
it.
As I said I did some little bit of work on humus in another
life and found
that Odum was correct in stating that it does not matter
much which
vegetable feedstock is used in humus production. Of course
the mineral
content will differ but the general shape and form of the
humic acid
molecules is the same.
As to animal manures, I definitely remember articles by
archeologists who
excavated medieval middens and found proof of which animals
were being kept
from the chemical analysis of the black stuff in the pits.
In one case pigs
and in another site sheep. To find out more archeological
articles are where
to look. Can't say more for my memory is not that good.
John

> -- On Mon, 11/14/11, John D'hondt <dhondt@eircom.net>
wrote:
>> It is almost impossible to find out afterwards
whether broccoli
>> heads or rice bran was used in humus production.
>> In contrast, when animal manures are included it
is still
>> possible even after a hundred years (and often
much more) to
>> determine exactly which animal contributed to the
fertility.
>
> Do you have any reference for this?
>
> Dieter
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