permaculture

["John D'hondt" <dhondt@eircom.net>]

Ah the differences in farming, I regularly (well, once or twice per year) 
water my vegetables with pure seawater and they thrive. Then also we just 
got 3 inches of rain on top of us this afternoon.
john


> Thanks for your comments John.
>
> I think the difference between compost/humus from an animal source and 
> compost/humus from a plant source is first of all that the former is more 
> concentrated, because a lot of plant material has gone into it.  So it is 
> not surprising to find a higher concentration of whatever nutrient we are 
> looking for.  The question really is, if the same amount of plant material 
> were to go towards making compost/humus without first going through the 
> guts of a foraging animal, would there be any qualitative difference?  And 
> which would produce more humus in the end, i.e., which would involve the 
> fewest losses?
>
> If your reasoning concerning mineral deficiency and foraging animals is 
> correct, nomads would have to be healthier than sedentary farmers.  I’m 
> not convinced of that.  The argument about the superior health of the 
> hunter gatherers is probably exaggerated or based on a small statistical 
> base of a few archeological finds.
>
> You are probably right that cow manure is different from earthworm 
> castings, but that doesn’t mean that the latter is inferior.  Microbes are 
> of course involved in both cases.
>
> If foraging animals serve to concentrate nutrients, so do plants.  Since 
> we know fairly well which plant accumulates what nutrients, the farmer can 
> chose green manure plants for accumulating certain nutrients.
>
> A few years ago, I went to a beach nearby and collected some seaweed.  I 
> will never do that again.  Even though I leached the seaweed in large 
> amounts of spring water, the salt in the seaweed still caused the 
> earthworms in my soil to disappear for over a year until they slowly 
> started to come back.
>
> Anyways, it is possible to grow food without livestock.  I have done it 
> for 15 years – over which period the soil has remarkably improved.  Others 
> have done it for much longer.  Maybe it would have been easier with 
> manure, I don’t know.  Anyways, I keep on wondering about the difference.
>
> Cheers,
> Dieter
>
>
> --- On Wed, 11/16/11, John D'hondt <dhondt@eircom.net> wrote:
>
> > - humus is formed by microorganisms in the soil direct or
> > in the gut of
> > earthworms, that does not really count as having gone
> > through an animal
> > organism imo
> > - the big difference between organic material made from
> > plants or from
> > animal manure is that plants are generally much less
> > sensitive than animals
> > in case of severe mineral deficiencies. To do well animals
> > must have all
> > nutrioents in abundance and their manure will then also be
> > richer in
> > nutrients than pure plant compost.
> > Especially ruminants will forage as far and wide as
> > possible to get
> > everything they need. If your flock is healthy their manure
> > should be
> > superior to compost made from plant waste from the very
> > spot you are going
> > to use that compost again.
> > -if you don't have animals you could perhaps use seaweed or
> > other sea
> > minerals incorporated in compost. Or you could do both.
> > john
>
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