Skip to Content.
Sympa Menu

permaculture - Re: [permaculture] Humus

permaculture@lists.ibiblio.org

Subject: permaculture

List archive

Chronological Thread  
  • From: "John D'hondt" <dhondt@eircom.net>
  • To: "permaculture" <permaculture@lists.ibiblio.org>
  • Subject: Re: [permaculture] Humus
  • Date: Sat, 19 Nov 2011 01:02:00 -0000


Just want to throw up the fact that many landscapes that are regarded has very desirable and pure environment were made through some form of animal husbandry. In my native country there were "heaths", heather landscapes that could only be kept alive by expensive grazing. Stop the grazing and it fast developes into a pine wood that is a good bit poorer in animal and bird species.
john

The choice is not limited to agriculture or foraging. There is a 3rd choice (if not more). Stable horticultural societies (gardeners, not farmers) existed for many thousands of years but were ignored by anthropologists until recently, considered just a brief transition state to agriculture. Permaculture, IMHO, is an attempt to create a horticultural society. That's what my lecture is about. It's pretty exciting stuff, since I think ag is fundamentally unsustainable, summed up in two questions: Name one ecosystem that is better off for having ag in it. And, how long can we keep doing that?

Toby
http://patternliteracy.com


On Nov 18, 2011, at 1:01 PM, John D'hondt wrote:


Seems to me that permaculture is a good step in the direction of
hunter-gathering. My problem with hunter-gathering in Ireland is that it is
not possible. I survived in the Scottish mountains for weeks at a time on
what I could find. Hill walking in Irish mountains that were once as rich as
the Scottish is severely disappointing in that there are no wild foods
anywhere except maybe for a few deer miles away and impossible to stalk.
Even the fish on the coast is going.
So to survive it has to be agriculture and developement of permaculture.
john


On Nov 17, 2011, at 9:37 AM, Dieter Brand wrote:

The argument about the superior health of the hunter gatherers is
probably exaggerated or based on a small statistical base of a few
archeological finds.

See Jared Diamond's article, "The Worst Mistake in the History of the
Human Race."
http://www.ditext.com/diamond/mistake.html

or mine, "Is Sustainable Agriculture an Oxymoron?"
http://www.patternliteracy.com/203-is-sustainable-agriculture-an-oxymoron

Not exaggerated. Essentially all the data available show that the shift to
agriculture resulted in a huge spike in epidemic disease, shorter
lifespan, shrinkage in stature (suggesting poorer nutrition), tooth and
bone problems, arthritis, etc. There aren't a lot of sites, it's true,
probably no more than 40 or so that cover the transition, but they all
show the same thing consistently. We paid a huge price nutritionally for
the shift to agriculture (not to mention the loss of freedom, which is far
more significant to me).

Okay, I really am procrastinating on writing a tough section of the
patterns book. Back to it!

Toby
http://patternliteracy.com


_______________________________________________
permaculture mailing list
permaculture@lists.ibiblio.org
Subscribe, unsubscribe, change your user configuration or find out more
about this list here:
http://lists.ibiblio.org/mailman/listinfo/permaculture
Garden Hand Tool Sourcelist and Biointensive Gardening Guide
http://www.ibiblio.org/ecolandtech/documents/gardening-hand-tools.faq
permaculture forums http://www.permies.com/permaculture-forums
Market Farming Mailing List
http://lists.ibiblio.org/mailman/listinfo/marketfarming





_______________________________________________
permaculture mailing list
permaculture@lists.ibiblio.org
Subscribe, unsubscribe, change your user configuration or find out more about this list here:
http://lists.ibiblio.org/mailman/listinfo/permaculture
Garden Hand Tool Sourcelist and Biointensive Gardening Guide
http://www.ibiblio.org/ecolandtech/documents/gardening-hand-tools.faq
permaculture forums http://www.permies.com/permaculture-forums
Market Farming Mailing List
http://lists.ibiblio.org/mailman/listinfo/marketfarming


_______________________________________________
permaculture mailing list
permaculture@lists.ibiblio.org
Subscribe, unsubscribe, change your user configuration or find out more about this list here:
http://lists.ibiblio.org/mailman/listinfo/permaculture
Garden Hand Tool Sourcelist and Biointensive Gardening Guide
http://www.ibiblio.org/ecolandtech/documents/gardening-hand-tools.faq
permaculture forums http://www.permies.com/permaculture-forums
Market Farming Mailing List
http://lists.ibiblio.org/mailman/listinfo/marketfarming









Archive powered by MHonArc 2.6.24.

Top of Page