permaculture

["Lawrence F. London, Jr." <venaurafarm@bellsouth.net>]

On 8/12/2010 4:55 PM, rafter sass wrote:

> So for me, arguments that we should go anywhere and teach Pc to
> anyone, for anyone, because Pc  is automagically transformative, are
> wrongheaded.

> A good PDC might actually be able to transform anyone that takes it -
> but that doesn't mean that teaching that class is good for the
> movement. As Annie Pollock points out, greenwashing is real, and we
> are already dealing with the challenges of the Permaculture label
> being applied to all kinds of things we don't want to be associated
> with.
>
> We could go and teach a PDC at a whites-only Afrikaaner "ecovillage"
> like Orania, and maybe it would have a profound impact on the people
> who took it. But (1) most of us would be, shall we say, reluctant?
> for Pc to be seen as a tool for building a racially pure Volkstaat,
> and (2) the Oranians already identify with Permaculture, so I guess
> an ecological holistic worldview WON'T necessarily guide someone out
> of an oppressive, ethnocentric social vison.
>
> Teaching Pc for, and to, white nationalists, would be bad for the
> movement.
>
> (For more evidence that fascism and ecology can survive in the same
> brain, look into Rudolph Steiner's theories on race. Or even more
> frightening, search Stormfront.org for entries on Permaculture. Note:
> the point here is to debunk oversimplified models of change, and
> magical thinking about Permaculture education - not to compare the
> National Guard project to white supremacy.)
>
> And vice versa: what's bad for the individual or project can be good
> for the movement. The lynching of civil rights movement workers James
> Chaney, Andrew Goodman, and Michael Schwerner, in 1964, was a
> horrific tragedy for them, their friends, and families - and a
> historic watershed for the civil rights movement.
>
> The point of these case studies is to say: we may not know how to
> design a movement, but it ain't entirely like designing a PDC.

What do you know about designing a movement? Maybe you should try and 
start one and find out for real what is involved. You could use parts of 
the Greens and Permaculture ones as models. It is obvious you want to 
use Earth-based sustainability movements to implement your notions of 
social re-engineering and what is socially and politically correct
and acceptable.

The permaculture movement is healthy and moving along just fine; no 
changes are needed. Yours and Kevin's wishes to retool it along the 
lines of permaculture supremacy speaks for itself.

I have to admit you got me thinking and I agree with the ethics
behind your statements and proposals though you fall into your own trap 
with your radical proposals. Isn't there a better way to effect change
without deliberately excluding and alienating people?

What do you and Kevin know about human rights activism?
Have either of you ever participated in any demonstrations, civil 
rights, human rights or environmental? Or do your deeds in the world of 
permaculture and organic agriculture speak for themselves? Taking your 
convictions about human rights as far as they can go means that you are 
talking about confronting "the global 
corporate/military/religious/political establishment" and needing to 
completely reorganize global society, politics and economics. So where 
are you going to make compromises?

> We are called, by our commitments, ethics, and desires, to figure it
> out. With each other.

> What are we doing to do with this movement of ours?

I think its more a matter of what you're going to do with yours
as your radical, exclusionary ideas are in sync with only a small 
portion of the people actively involved, in any way, on any level, in 
the permaculture movement. You should have been around during the 60's
to experience what real free thinking is all about. It was a time
when ethics, morality and concern for one's fellow man was in the 
forefront of most people's mind, never mind the war, drugs and 
government meddling.

I see a challenge to take your energy in wanting to make change in the 
ethics of the permaculture movement and use it wisely, taking it to its 
fullest extent.

I think it may be time for a whimsical proposal for a new permaculture 
list, one where anyone is welcome. I can call it Permaculture For All, 
pc4all@lists.ibiblio.org.