permaculture

[Daniel Mazen Kablaoui <dankablaoui@gmail.com>]

Word to rafter sass.
We gotta keep it moving.
Show and prove.

You can't stop people; the best put the danks down.

I was thinking of how uncomfortable the lack of design in the system  
itself. But. (but) but the stretch of Pc goes all the way past that  
idea design. zone 5 Scott Pittman committment witness to reserve, and  
maybe Permaculture itself should and will indeed always have its zone 5.

Who wants to step up to the garden rigt outside the kitchen (what's  
the kitchen?); who will hold down zone 1. Because - as for allergies -  
it sounds like (to Me) there are people who don't have them. They are  
being listened to!

But maybe it's not an allergy as much as hereditary condition  
(hereditary allergy?)... We will see, we are all different.

Seems like some of em permies don't have it; and zone 1 is what's  
happening for them.

Who can make the idea clear; bring the style eminent? There are those  
who stick to the ground, working for themselves - what zone is that in  
this community?

For we are apparently arranged in a space already - discern yourself  
if you can in this context...

Here they are, talking. The relationships exist anyway, and insight is  
possible.

Cool discussion (glad I checked in guys)



On Aug 12, 2010, at 2:08 PM, gavinraders@gmail.com wrote:

> Beautiful. Thank you Rafter. Great to see this conversation come  
> around full circle, but even more so, to hear the next generation of  
> leaders in this movement coming into their own, finding their  
> eloquent powerful voices, and raising the critical questions that  
> need to be raised if we are ever going to move permaculture beyond  
> what it has been. Here's to succession, evolution, and dialectical  
> engagement within our movement.
> Thats all I have time for now. But i take your words with me in the  
> day-to-day work and struggle. Hope to reconnect soon Rafter!
>
> Gavin Raders
> Co-Founder, Planting Justice
> www.plantingjustice.org
> Sent from my BlackBerry® smartphone, powered by CREDO Mobile.
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: rafter sass <rafter@liberationecology.org>
> Sender: permaculture-bounces@lists.ibiblio.org
> Date: Thu, 12 Aug 2010 16:55:39
> To: Northeastern Permaculture (List)<northeasternpermaculture@lists.riseup.net 
> >; <permaculture@lists.ibiblio.org>
> Reply-To: permaculture <permaculture@lists.ibiblio.org>
> Subject: [permaculture] Designing a Movement (was: Ethics of whatever)
>
>
> Many heartfelt thanks  to the folks who have been able to engage  
> with the challenges of this conversation without descending into
> name-calling and other juvenilia.
>
> ...
>
>
> Kevin Skvorak has Problems.
>
> Two of them, for the purposes of this conversation. ;)
>
> One of them is a Personal Problem - he seems to have contracted the  
> modern anarchist's allergy to leadership. The symptoms include  
> putting critique before curiosity.
> I hope he works on this. I think he would be even more effective in  
> raising critical topics and questions if he did.
>
> The other is NOT a Personal Problem. It's another kind of problem  
> altogether - a Movement Problem.
>
> He wants to be a part of a movement that practices an engaged and  
> ongoing dialogue about its own ethics and strategy - and the  
> actually-existing Permaculture movement can't really be described  
> this way. Not quite - not yet.
>
> What's standing in the way?
> Well, a lot of the movement leadership seems to have contracted the  
> classic leader's malaise of allergy to critique.
> Juvenile defensiveness, on the part of our teachers and public  
> faces, is a problem that is going to do us real harm, as a movement  
> - if it isn't mitigated.
> Or maybe we all just need to get really good at gentle, soothing,  
> critique, so that we don't insult or frighten them when we have hard  
> questions to ask. ;)
> (And yes - I definitely respond better to that, too!)
>
> And if that weren't enough, a lot of folks in the movement - along  
> with most everybody else in the world - don't have a great toolbox  
> when it comes to thinking about design and strategy at different  
> scales. What does it even mean to build a movement - or design one?  
> We aren't well prepared to answer. And we, of all movements, might  
> want to think hard about the question.
>
> I don't claim to know the answer, but I DO know that it requires  
> more and different tools than the ones we use to transform an  
> individual, or regenerate a landscape,
> or organize a project, etc. etc.
>
> Individual, project, community, movement, world...
> The principles I use to guide my behavior and my relationships are  
> related, but distinct, from the ones that I bring to creating  
> strategy for the projects I work on.
> The criteria I use to design my projects are related, but distinct  
> from the ones I use to understand and work with my community.
> And the tools I use to engage and enliven my community are related,  
> but distinct from the ones that I use to build and strategize my  
> movement.
>
> So for me, arguments that we should go anywhere and teach Pc to  
> anyone, for anyone, because Pc  is automagically transformative, are  
> wrongheaded.
> A good PDC might actually be able to transform anyone that takes it  
> - but that doesn't mean that teaching that class is good for the  
> movement.
> As Annie Pollock points out, greenwashing is real, and we are  
> already dealing with the challenges of the Permaculture label being  
> applied to all kinds of things we don't
> want to be associated with.
>
> We could go and teach a PDC at a whites-only Afrikaaner "ecovillage"  
> like Orania, and maybe it would have a profound impact on the people  
> who took it.
> But (1) most of us would be, shall we say, reluctant? for Pc to be  
> seen as a tool for building a racially pure Volkstaat, and (2) the  
> Oranians already identify with Permaculture, so I guess an  
> ecological holistic worldview WON'T necessarily guide someone out of  
> an oppressive, ethnocentric social vison.
>
> Teaching Pc for, and to, white nationalists, would be bad for the  
> movement.
>
> (For more evidence that fascism and ecology can survive in the same  
> brain, look into Rudolph Steiner's theories on race. Or even more  
> frightening, search Stormfront.org for entries on Permaculture.  
> Note: the point here is to debunk oversimplified models of change,  
> and magical thinking about Permaculture education - not to compare  
> the National Guard project to white supremacy.)
>
> And vice versa: what's bad for the individual or project can be good  
> for the movement. The lynching of civil rights movement workers  
> James Chaney, Andrew Goodman, and Michael Schwerner, in 1964, was a  
> horrific tragedy for them, their friends, and families - and a  
> historic watershed for the civil rights movement.
>
> The point of these case studies is to say: we may not know how to  
> design a movement, but
> it ain't entirely like designing a PDC.
>
> We are called, by our commitments, ethics, and desires, to figure it  
> out. With each other.
>
> OK, I'm actually supposed to be packing and moving right now, so I'm  
> going to cut this off.
> What are we doing to do with this movement of ours?
>
>
> all love, respect, and hard questions,
> rafter
>
>
>
> rafter sass
> Liberation Ecology Project
> liberationecology.org
> 518-567-7407
> skype: raughter
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
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