permaculture

["Lawrence F. London, Jr." <venaurafarm@bellsouth.net>]

Tripp Tibbetts wrote:
> We just got a new Kiko nanny goat this morning, freshly wormed from
> her previous owner, and I'm wondering what I can plant in the orchard
> to help with worms in the future, as Ivermectin isn't exactly part of
> my typical grocery list.  At Darren Doherty's Keyline class in
> Aromas, CA, back in October someone mentioned using diatomaceous
> earth, at which point I caught Darren's eye and we were both shaking
> our heads.  Wha?  But surely there are plants that can help in this
> regard.  Would love to hear about them.
>
> Also, we're in a hot muggy zone 8 climate in the southeastern US and
> I'm looking for diversity in the high-protein fodder department.
> Does anyone have experience with Siberian pea shrub down here?  What
> about mimosa?  Not a lot of foliage, so not sure it's worth planting,
> but grows readily here.  What else?  Eleagnus?  Russian olive does
> almost too well around here.  Do goats dig it?


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I don't either but logically, the substance used depends on the worm
that's present: round, flat or pin. Natural cures exist for all three
(I've successfully  used four cures for all three worm types w/
other domestic animals) but each cure is effective in relation to
the worm that's present.
LFLJ> Organic wormer for sheep and cattle:

LFLJ> A fellow market farmer has asked me to find out what I can
LFLJ> about the availability and effectiveness of natural wormers
LFLJ> for cattle. He may be interested in growing certified organic
LFLJ> cattle or perhaps "clean raised".

It depends on the worm - i.e., pinworm; roundworm; or tapeworm.

garlic; pomegranate juice or papaya seed; and squash seed kernels
will do the job, respectively.

I've used these on animals and myself and they work.

LFLJ> Any feedback would be appreciated. What about same for sheep
LFLJ> grown for meat?

Amounts vary with the substance and weight of the animal.
<>
I was interested to read that the estimable Jim Duke has recorded that that
pumpkin seeds contain percentage levels [up to 13%] of the antihelminthic,
cucurbitin.

Given that plants concentrate the most important nutritive elements into
their seed [survival]; + the good lipid profile, these seeds might be
considered as a phytotherapeutic.

David Menne : http://www.plantsfood.com

"We can't solve problems by using the same kind of thinking we used when we
created them" - Albert Einstein (1879-1955)
<>
> I've been asked to posit whether use of vinegar is an acceptable
> alternative for worming Dorper Sheep.
- I don't know, but, I have heard that chewing tobacco works good for
deworming, and that most live stock enjoy it.
- I have heard that feeding chewing tobacco will cause worms to be expelled,
the nicotine from it acts as a pesticide but horses and cattle are to big to
be affected.
<>

I have 2 female llamas running with my mares. Tell your friends to
get fecal samples run up before doing any more worming. They
may not need it for awhile. Recently I found something called CILK
for EQUINE, which has dehydrated reed sedge, mineral oil, kaolin
and about a zillion different Bacillus's and Aspergillus's. Supposed
to do the work of Diatomaceous Earth without the harmful lung side
effects.

The advice to run fecal samples so you can target your worming
program is great for most parasites.  However, as far as I know,
meningeal worm is very difficult to test for.  It's quite difficult even to
diagnosis it's presence when major damage is already apparent and
even in necropsy, according to people who have talked on line about
problems with it. The parasite burrows into nerve tissue, including
spinal cord, and can produce some devastating and unreversable
neurological damage. I don't see that risk as something to take
chances with.  The few animals I've seen that have had problems
have been sad sights.  I'd stick with the normal worming practices
unless there's clear evidence of success with alternatives, which I
haven't heard yet.  From what I've heard from people in the Northeast
and from vets, more than a month between applications may allow m-
worm time to develop internally.

I am hopeful that DE and herbal wormers will prove to be successful
for normal parasites like roundworms and tapes, etc.   But I don't see
m-worm as one you'd want to go that route with at this point if it's
present in your area.
I know nothing about the topic, but happened to see the word: MINERAL OIL.
I can tell you, this is something that should never, ever be used in any
living tissue. I know, it is sold by medical places--have seen rows of
bottles of it in such places, but it is TERRIBLE because it dissolves into
itself any fat-containing item, and removes that from the body.
    I remember telling this to groups where there were MDs there, and I
guess they did not like to hear that. Would make creature lose vit E, for
example. Very bad stuff, should never be used for any living creature.

<>
A good rotational grazing system precludes the need for chemical parasite
control.  Much of the homeopathic remedies on the market are not effective.

There are some plants such as wild blackberry that ruminants will nibble
that help purge seasonal loads of internal parasites.  Diatomaceous earth
which has been touted as an effective internal parasitide does not work on
parasites that do not have exoskeletons.

A good source of detailed info can be found on the ATTRA site at
http://www.attra.org/sitemap.html  Do a search for parasites

Rick Hopkins
President
American Pasturage, Inc.
P.O. Box 190
Marionville, MO  65705
(417) 258-2394
http://www.americanpasturage.com/
For other information concerning grass fed beef see http://www.eatwild.com
and http://www.westonaprice.org
For the American Homestead Foods Certification Program go to
http://www.homesteadfoods.com
Also check out the new Graziers Forum at: http://bbs.americanpasturage.com
<>
Here is the ATTRA item you may be thinking about:

Integrated Parasite Management For Livestock
By Ann Wells, DVM | ATTRA
http://www.attra.org/attra-pub/livestockipm.html
http://www.attra.org/attra-pub/PDF/livestock-ipm.pdf

Regards,
Steve Diver
<>

And something interesting about what's in commercial broiler farm 
chicken feed from Joe Cummins:

I have enclosed an abstract of an article that may answer your question.
The antibiotic roxarsone is used to treat chickens to make them grow
faster. FDA approved the arsenic antibiotic and it is claimed 70 percent
of commercial feeds contain the antibiotic. Compost from chicken manure
are rich in inorganic arsenic from antibiotic breakdown. Arsenic is a
human carcinogen and effects blood circulation. Arsenic in drinking
water is a huge problem in Asia  but that arsenic comes from geology and
from fallout from burning low quality coal. Organic chicken producers
may score as people become more aware of the arsenic in conventional
chicken products.Free range chickens should, in theory be less polluted
with arsenic than conventional chickens Hope this helps, prof. joe cummins
Stolz JF, Perera E, Kilonzo B, Kail B, Crable B, Fisher E, Ranganathan
M, Wormer L, Basu P.
Abstract     Biotransformation of 3-nitro-4-hydroxybenzene arsonic acid
(roxarsone) and release of inorganic arsenic by Clostridium species.
Environ Sci Technol. 2007 Feb 1;41(3):818-23.
The extensive use of 3-nitro-4-hydroxybenzene arsonic acid (roxarsone)
in the production of broiler chickens can lead to increased soil arsenic
concentration and arsenic contaminated dust. While roxarsone is the
dominant arsenic species in fresh litter, inorganic As (V) predominates
in composted litter. Microbial activity has been implicated as the cause,