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livingontheland - Re: [Livingontheland] TWO AGRICULTURES, NOT ONE, By John Michael Greer

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Subject: Healthy soil and sustainable growing

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  • From: "John D'hondt" <dhondt@eircom.net>
  • To: "Healthy soil and sustainable growing" <livingontheland@lists.ibiblio.org>
  • Subject: Re: [Livingontheland] TWO AGRICULTURES, NOT ONE, By John Michael Greer
  • Date: Sat, 25 Sep 2010 21:10:04 +0100


Here in Ireland it is still scavenger time although it is getting less easy every year. Wood shavings are now difficult to get because the joiner's shops have to close because of the economic collapse we are in. But it is still possible to ask an orchard owner for as many fruit as you can pick for free. Most people can't be bothered to make an effort. And 40 gallon steel drums used for transporting olive oil, timber pallets, parts of vehicles, lawn mowings and collected tree leaves and fish waste are still there for the taking.
Of course it won't last but the way the waste laws are constructed it may go on for a good while.
john

--- On Fri, 9/24/10, pbunch@cox.net <pbunch@cox.net> wrote:
Clearly importing nutrients from neighbors is a mid-term
solution but what will the situation be if everyone in a
given area is recycling the nutrients present in their
systems? I suspect they will not give them up at a
reasonable price.

Exactly! Importing organic matter free of charge is only possible in a wasteful society that considers "organic matter" as "waste" to be gotten rid off. I now live in one of the poorest regions of Europe, if I were to ask my neighbor, who is a cattle farmer, for a load of manure; he would charge me 100 Euros. In Germany, most farmers would just give me a load of manure free of charge. Another example, when we first moved here, I asked the local joiner's shop if I could have some saw dust and wood shavings for mulching. They told me to come and get as much as I wanted. When I went back to the same shop two years later, they sold bags of the same stuff for 10 Euros a piece. There is no such thing as a free lunch.

Dieter Brand
Portugal



While good soil structure and a healthy
flora and fauna provide optimal condition for local nutrient
cycling, nutrients are inevitably lost to leaching and where
produce is sold they are exported from the farm with the
vegetables and other products. Sustainability is a long-term
project and things like potassium and easily leached trace
minerals may become limiting factors. Calcium also can be a
problem in high rainfall areas. The natural geochemical
cycles are the ultimate constraints on what we can do. Mass
is conserved.

Eventually, and perhaps sooner than later the
throughput via the human population has to be
addressed. I doubt if 6 billion people, with 9 billion in
the near future, can be supported even with the best
methods.


---- Tradingpost <tradingpost@lobo.net>
wrote:
>
> Intensive gardens can also be the cash crops, as it is
with us. Since we don't have fields we import free
amendments and mulch for intensive. In both cases nearby
farmers have excess to get rid of and it gets recycled. The
sources don't have to be esp fertile. Fertility - the crumb
sructure and biologicals - is built up in the beds.
>
> paul tradingpost@lobo.net
>
>
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> Livingontheland mailing list
> Livingontheland@lists.ibiblio.org
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