Healthy soil and sustainable growing

[mdnagel@verizon.net]

First off, I'd like to acknowledge all the wonderful people in this group for being someone the wisest that I've ever run across.  Paul has been a great inspiration!

Dieter, to sum up what Paul is/might be saying (my interp): grow it and they will come.  Eventually things are going to go in the direction that we push in.  I'd say that our dilemma is that we're straddling two worlds, the corporate-controlled one, which makes it very hard to produce alongside of, and the world we're looking to create for, the sustainable world.  We cannot map today's maligned world on top of tomorrow's better world.  As I've noted previously, we're headed to subsistence farming.  While this looks bleak and negative in today's western world, in the future it'll beat the alternatives.  Today it's a matter of hanging on in the face of overwhelming odds; in the future it'll be the same, only we'll be better at it!

Dieter's point about us operating in a niche market is something that we need to pay heed to.  If there is substantial downturns in the economy we are likely to find our customer base significantly reduced, while our expenses (like mortgages) stay relatively fixed: yes, one should endeavor to control expenses, but when operating at the very bottom it's hard to reduce.  Our goals should be to do just enough to cover today's expenses such that we can hold on to our land and our practices: when the bottom completely blows out it's likely that there won't be anyone around to send mortgage payments to.  Any "excesses" should be used to pay down debt an improve our operations.

As far as the term "organic" goes, I think we should all resort to jettisoning this term, leaving it behind with the corporate food system that's absconded with the term.  I think that it's perfectly noble to use the term "sustainable," that this word implies that we're looking to keep things alive indefinitely, whereas the corporate world can in no way manipulate this word to fit what they are doing.


-Mark Nagel
Everett, WA


Aug 12, 2010 09:56:48 PM, livingontheland@lists.ibiblio.org wrote:
> >
> >Interesting. Let me throw out a couple doubts tho. We do see some small scale 
> >intensive growing; however many such as mine don't serve niche markets but ordinary 
> >customers just wanting better fruits and vegetables or value added items like honey 
> >or jams etc. Now those biomass inputs don't actually have to come from big farms 
> >at all; some on this list just grow their own. I don't know about thousands 
> >of other areas but where we are thousands of homeowners have at least an acre or 
> >more already that would be suitable if they have their own water. A trip around 
> >the country reveals a lot of fallow land no one finds profitable for big farming. 
> >They're not thinking outside the box obviously.
> >
> >The attitudes you describe in Portugal aren't so different from here. Organic 
> >still has a very tiny fraction of the fresh market. I think those who pay more for 
> >ours and others' are concerned about safe food and freshness. We just had another 
> >massive recall of ground beef over e.coli. To me that's not so much a niche 
> >market as a spreading fear of grocery store food.
> >
> >As for communicating the need for sustainable food production, I don't beat 
> >my head against the wall. The day isn't far off when they'll be forced to 
> >work and sweat for food just to make ends meet. And they won't know how. As 
> >for GMOs, nobody can show any evidence that GMOs ever raise production.
> >
> >However, if people can't imagine that the soil is suffering, maybe they 
> >can imagine how THEY are suffering. Supermarket food from most soil is nutrient 
> >deficient and toxic. We have the highest rate of degenerative diseases in the world, 
> >and by far the highest health care costs per capita. Their typical diet is killing 
> >them, slowly and painfully, and draining their retirement nest eggs.
> >
> >So that's how the dieoff starts? People who love their addictive, toxic 
> >"food-like substances" (Pollan's term)? Doesn't have to include 
> >us, does it.
> >
> >paul tradingpost@lobo.net
> >
> >
> >*********** REPLY SEPARATOR  ***********
> >
> >On 8/12/2010 at 2:27 PM Dieter Brand wrote:
> >I don’t doubt that there are
> >>models of sustainability such as small scale intensive market gardening.
> >>Nevertheless, these models can at best serve niche markets under
> >>particularly favorable conditions.  You are hardly going to grow wheat or
> >>potatoes on raised beds.  And even if one or the other intensive market
> >>gardener can achieve cost-efficiency by growing a few selected vegetables,
> >>he still needs the large-scale farmer for producing hay, alfa-alfa meal 
> >or
> >>other biomass inputs.  He also needs to start with sufficient funds to be
> >>able to buy a plot of land near a city where he will find the middle class
> >>clientele with good incomes that are prepared to pay the local gardener
> >>higher prices rather than buy cheap imported food from a discount
> >>chain.
> >