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  • From: <pbunch@cox.net>
  • To: Healthy soil and sustainable growing <livingontheland@lists.ibiblio.org>
  • Subject: Re: [Livingontheland] the truth about vegetarianism
  • Date: Sat, 5 Jun 2010 4:39:51 -0700

The issue with livestock is fundamental ecology. They are secondary
producers, they need to eat many pounds of plant material per pound of meat
or milk produced. Each pound of plant material requires space to grow and in
many existing systems excessive inputs of nutrients.When crops are planted
for direct consumption by humans the total amount of area required to provide
good nutrition is significantly less and the amount of nitrogen and
phosphorus required also is much lower. This analysis is based on the ratio
between land that must be dedicated to grazing verses direct production of
food for people. The environmental impact of food production follows this
ratio fairly closely.

The impacts discussed in the the UN report include loss of biodiversity from
habitat modification (land clearing), permanent dedication of land to
agricultural use, the effects of nitrogen and phosphorus on water and human
health. Since we are already overpopulated and the amount of land that can be
used for agriculture is limited, they are making this recommendation. It also
should be noted that the capacity of our supporting ecosystems to absorb and
treat excess nitrogen and phosphorus are limited.

My own take on this is that asking people to become vegans overnight will not
work. Food preferences are among the most deeply seated habits and desires.
Many people feel deprived when they cannot eat the foods they grew up with.
There will be a lot of changes in peoples lives over the next 20 to 50 years
and it will be very important to demonstrate that change does not mean that
life has to be unpleasant or bad.

IMHO it would be much more effective to encourage reducing the amount of meat
and milk in peoples diets and perhaps in the future eliminating them. The
environmental benefits of reduced consumption of animal products would be
significant in the short to mid-term and could accomplish sustainability
goals over these time frames. As we approach 9 billion people the
proportional amount of animal products consumed will have to drop to much
lower levels.

Phil Bunch
Medellin, Colombia
---- Tommy Tolson <healinghawk@earthlink.net> wrote:
> Richard is well on the way to feeding his family from the Permaculture
> design in what was his yard in Santa Rosa. As the design matures and he
> and Janet tweak it as its feedback loops advise, it provides for them.
> Richard walks his talk.
>
> Einstein, way back when, advised vegetarianism to "save the world." I
> didn't make it up. Nor did Richard. The UN body that produced the
> paper about going vegan to save this climate regime (since our national
> governments are all corrupted by corporatist - the authoritarian
> combination of governmental power with corporate power -money) came from
> all over the world. No one is coming to save us from our ignorance of
> natural process. We must save ourselves. Veganism is a means by which
> we consciously engage the process of life and reclaim our colonized
> volitional potentials from the corporatist mind control industry. I'm
> not talking about the few who have learned to live with the land without
> damaging it. I'm talking about the multitudes who remain clueless about
> the ecological crisis we are deeply into now on Earth.
>
> Livestock is the only thing that approaches plowing in sheer ecological
> destruction wrought by the farmers of western culture, who made deserts
> and moved on until there was nowhere to go. It seems to me that
> situation came about from raising livestock for money rather than
> subsistence. Agriculture colonized the land, enslaved it in order to
> produce a surplus to support the priests and soldiers required by the
> owners (banksters) of the surplus in order to maintain Master status.
> Thus the evil economic paradigm was born expressly to attempt dominion
> over nature. How is that working out for us? Making a yield isn't the
> dumb part. Attempting dominion over nature - which produced our species
> - is.
>
> More and more Permaculture oases are sprouting in the deserts of the SW
> US on down into Mexico as Scott Pittman and his crew get folks trained
> in design skills for drylands Permaculture. Putting massive amounts of
> organic matter into pure sand within a few years forms a lens of mostly
> rainwater that supports trees. These designed ecosystems are there now,
> supporting folks who live with them, tweaking them into increasing
> fullness. I don't know how many, if any, support livestock beyond
> chickens and rabbits.
>
> I think there are ways to integrate livestock into human food production
> systems that sustain themselves. Chickens and rabbits are Permaculture
> animals, easiest to integrate and maintain in ecosystemic balance.
> Hoofed animals are harder to integrate, though not necessarily
> impossible, as Holistic Management shows. Chicken and rabbit "wastes"
> are easiest to add to the natural closed cycles of a successful design.
>
> The bottom line is, I think, that, unless we are fortunate enough to
> know enough pattern literacy to symbiotically join existent functional
> ecosystems, we design and build complete ecosystems with ourselves and
> our families designed, as symbionts, into the system from the beginning,
> if we, from family to city scale, are to survive industrialism's pending
> collapse. As Stewart Brand said, we are as gods so we might as well get
> good at it.
>
> Smiles.
> Tommy
>
> On 6/4/10 10:30 AM, Doug Willhite wrote:
> > I don't give a rip what the U.N. or Richard Heinberg might have to
> > say about it... really, I don't. I've known Richard since the 1970's.
> > He's a brilliant and talented man. But there's a vast difference
> > between being "book smart" and being "street smart."
> >
> > Veganism and vegetarianism are NOT realistic or doable options for
> > folks who are serious about taking responsibility for their own food
> > supply. Not around here. Not where I live. Your kind of talk --
> > "vegan lifestyles are a survival device" -- is just plain la-la land!
> >
> > The myth of vegetarianism needs to be dispelled pronto. Vegetarian
> > ideology is currently one of the biggest obstacles to reaching local,
> > community food self-sufficiency.
> >
> > doug
> >
>
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