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[Leslie <cayadopi AT yahoo.com>]

Communist plot probably isn't the right way to phrase what is going on, but I 
don't know what the right word or phrase would be either.  I have come across 
quite a bit over the past few years from various sources (including Russian 
professor types) that cite similar, let's call them "goals to topple the US 
from its economic and military pedastle".  And it isn't just from the 
Russians.
 
Agree, Obama is just one in a long line........ and they all are always 
throwing the sheeples a trinket to divert our attention.  Actually, there are 
precedents for believing the gov't will seize (temporarily, ha ha) 401ks and 
IRA, etc.
 
 
<<<They also are protesting the wrong things in the wrong ways; 
protesting every utterance Obama makes just makes them look like raving 
fanatics>>>
 
Just as the Dems anti-Bush claims make them look like raving Dem fanatics.
 
But I 100% agree they are protesting the wrong things in the wrong ways.
 
 
Funny thing is, as you know, we had a Constitutionalist who didn't spout lies 
run for office.   Ron Paul.   
 
There is one caution about the Tea Parties, and that is to be careful to make 
sure that any people they support aren't Trojan Republicans.  While I support 
the Tea Parties, End the Fed, and similar movements, I'm also cautious about 
the Tea Party movement in particular being hi-jacked.  By and large the 
"ground level" people I've talked to have become really really angry at both 
the Dems and Repubs - and these people I've walked up to and talked to are 
from all parties.  However, I do have some questions about some of the ideals 
of the people higher up the ladder, those little freudian slips.  Anyone 
running for any office now needs to be vetted out carefully, and IMO, we need 
some kind of laws (yikes, did I really say that?), yep we need some kind of 
law that if any government officials passes something unconstitutional that 
they get indicted for treason, with no bail permitted under the "risk of 
flight" type of rules.
 
 
 
Coincidently, I just came across this lengthy article from Mises.org, 
"Inflation and the Fall of the Roman Empire".
 
http://mises.org/story/3663
 
Naturally, my curiosity was piqued by the title due to my belief that the US 
is entering a period of hyper-inflation.
 
In short, it explains how the increasing size of government, caused the need 
to debase their currency, caused a hyper-inflation, and the eventual 
collapse.  It also explains how the taxation was for the benefit of the 
government beaurocrats and military at the expense of impoverishing the 
people, and at the expense of the freedom of the people.  Additionally, the 
beaurocrats and the military enjoined the benefits of a gold standard, while 
the peasants had the equivalent of paper money and suffered a 
hyper-inflation.  Even back then, Diocletan blamed the greedy merchants for 
the cause of all the ills, instead of the government's policies and the 
debasement of the currency.....  History repeats......
 
 
I read this with that thought in mind, history repeats, to see if we have any 
clues for the future.  One clue is that once the government had debased the 
currency too far, the people stopped refusing to accept the government issued 
coinage, and resorted to barter.  The coinage was so debased that the 
government wouldn't even accept it in payment for taxes, and demanded the 
goods produced by the masses as payment for taxes.  Shheeeessshhh.
 
There is an interesting quote in the article by a Christian priest, Salvian 
of Merseille,,, basically that the Roman state collapsed because it deserved 
to collapse because it had denied the first premise of good government, which 
is a just system of taxation to the people.  
 
We have so many hidden taxes in this country that is has become an UN-just 
system.  Inflation is the most mis-understood tax of them all.  It is a great 
taxation scheme and wealth transfer scheme.  The tea parties main protest is 
against taxes:  "Taxed Enough Already".  Yet the opposition claims taxes are 
historically low by pointing at just the Federal income tax rate.  This is a 
huge slight of hand....
 
It looks like in the end of this article (actually it was a speach given), 
that the romans were happy to be captured by barbarians,,,, just to get out 
from under the taxing beaurocracy of the Romans.......... 
 
YIKES.........  Gives a whole new meaning to the name of that movie 
"BARBARIANS AT THE GATES".  (Wall Street Barbarians....)
 
Good questions!! I think we agree in principle, but I don't see this as a 
communist plot. It is the natural outcome of government siding with 
corporations, to the detriment of the little guy, both small business and 
consumer. Obama is just the latest in a long line of presidents favoring 
corporations. Him giving bailouts to Wall St. so they could continue giving 
million dollar bonuses to failed CEOs is just the latest slap in the face to 
taxpayers. We are doing this to ourselves.

Sheeples, indeed. Throw them a few trinkets, and they will quiet down. I 
think this country has forgotten how to do a proper revolution. People will 
protest, unless it means losing their job or 401k. Or missing their favorite 
TV show. They also are protesting the wrong things in the wrong ways; 
protesting every utterance Obama makes just makes them look like raving 
fanatics. By the end, I think the republicans will lose everyone but the 
loonies. I think the Tea Parties are the right idea, and it's time for a new 
leader to appear, A constitutionalist who doesn't spout lies or hate would 
grab my attention..

Lynn Wigglesworth
----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Leslie" <cayadopi AT yahoo.com>
To: <homestead AT lists.ibiblio.org>
Sent: Monday, September 07, 2009 5:30 PM
Subject: Re: [Homestead] Where are the protesters?






________________________________

From: Lynn Wigglesworth lynnw1366 AT hotmail.com

<<< I don't like the whole slant of this article:that a country "wins" or 
"loses" by how effective it is in forcing it's ideology on other countries. 
The socialist ideas in this country aren't a communist plot. They are coming 
from within and are a natural consequence of the corruption that is making 
the divide between rich and poor wider every year. >>>

Do you think that Putin and his predecessors and allies haven't been 
plotting the final blow to America, by using the tactic of Collapse from 
Within? I thought the author made a great point ---- that any country who 
wanted to defeat us must have had to consider our considerable advanced war 
technology as being next to impossible to beat. Therefore, you would have to 
attack us in a non-conventional way, and do so with a long term plan in 
mind.

I agree that the divide between the rich and the poor grows wider every 
year. It is quite likely a very effective the way to destabilize a 
government, to weaken it.


<<<Like the Russian Revolution, the French Revolution, or in many ways the 
American Revolution,
the peasants are fed up with the injustice of it all.>>>

I'm not well schooled enough in history to debate this. The French 
Revolution to replace monarchial rule led to a time of poverty and failures 
of mutliple attempts to redefine rule, which eventually led to a coup d'etat 
by Napolean, who became Emperor. Clearly the Russian Revolution didn't lead 
to propserity for the masses when they adopted their socialist form of 
government..the gap between the poverty of the masses and the wealthy there 
was told to me by first hand account as my father worked behind the wall in 
Russia many times.. The American Revolution, however, did lead to freedom 
and prosperity for the masses when they adopted capitalism..... at least 
until such time as the greedy at the top and bottom figured out a way to 
manipulate politicians into changing the rules in their favor, and little by 
little capitalism was replaced with a combianation of socialistic and 
fascist ideals.


<<<We don't have anything even close to true capitalism or free markets 
here. >>>

I agree. We have been a stealth fascist nation for at least 50 years, that 
is if fascism is defined as a merger of state and corporate interests.


<<<<By the same token, the USSR wasn't a true communist country; more a 
totalitarian dictatorship. Ironically, those at the bottom were heavily 
regulated, while the few at the top flourished. Some things are universal, 
huh?>>>>

Which brings me back to me pointing the finger at the sheeples.......... 
Sheeples must always be on the lookout for those few who are always looking 
to abuse and corrupt in order to poor the masses. When they don't, and we 
haven't,,,, this disparity becomes more and more apparent.


It seems the disparity is more widely recognized by the sheeples now.... I 
guess the question now is will this foster revolution? And what will be 
outcome if that happens? Who wins? Oppressors or the masses? If the 
oppressors, my guess is we become corporate slaves.

And if the masses - which direction will they take? Will they remember that 
the US Consitution fostered an environment that permitted a twist on Karl 
Marx................. "TO each according to his ability" (Instead of FROM 
each), which created the wealth of this country? Will they form a 
dictatorship, Marxist type state? Or do we follow the French and flounder 
about in one failed experiment after another until a new emporer arrives?



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________________________________

From: Lynn Wigglesworth <lynnw1366 AT hotmail.com>
To: homestead AT lists.ibiblio.org
Sent: Monday, September 7, 2009 5:58:35 PM
Subject: Re: [Homestead] Where are the protesters?




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From: Leslie <cayadopi AT yahoo.com>
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Subject: Re: [Homestead] Talk about disrespect!
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Yes, very scary that much of what we are eating is GMO ................ and 
one heck of a motivation to grow our own food.


I fail to see a legal distinction on the Monsanto expample, on why they think 
they have grounds to file suit in the first place.

A shampoo manufacturer can make the claim, "no animal testing" and not be 
sued by those manufacturers that do use animal testing.  In this type of 
example, a consumer who doesn't believe in animal testing can purchase one 
brand, and a consumer who wants animals tested first believing that makes 
consumers more safe, can choose the other brand.

To me, there should be nothing to prohibit a producer of milk from stating 
how the animals are treated and what, if any, hormones or antibiotics or 
genetics, etc. have been employed to produce the milk.  That way, those 
consumers who don't want rGBH can choose.  And those who don't think there is 
a problem, can choose that milk.


To me, Monsanto suing someone over what they put on their label (as long as 
it is 100% true) makes them an economic predator against their 
competitors................. 

Now, if Monsanto can prove no harm is being done, if they wanted to file a 
suit, to me the only person elligible to be sued would be a person/company 
making a claim that rGBH is harmful.... because that is a direct libel or 
slander.

To me, however, stating that you do not use rGBH, can not and should not fall 
under libel/slander if it is a simple statement of fact, "we don't use it".

Tort reform needed here.......... maybe to the tune of 100x damages for any 
lawsuit filed against a person/entity who is simply stating a fact, and not 
making a false claim.




Back to rGBH for a second.  A lot of human arthritis can be tracked back to 
dairy.... one of those things that make ya go HMMMMMMMMMMMM.  (see the book I 
Cured My Arthritis and So Can You, authored by a long time RA sufferer).  I 
drank raw milk as a kid.  No problem.  Later as a young adult, arthritic like 
symptoms, severe inflammation,,, thousands of dollars later and no definitive 
diagnosis (but they did rule out RA).... I read that book.  Stopped dairy 
products and whallah, cured.  Except for the day after when I just have to 
stop and get an ice-cream..... which I pay for the next day with joint 
inflammation.  rGBH connection?  Have no idea.  All I know is there is 
something in dairy that bothers me.  It sure would be interesting to see if 
raw milk with no rGBH affected me or not.... that would be a big clue for me.




________________________________
From: Lynn Wigglesworth lynnw1366 AT hotmail.com
>in order to sell their >product.

That would be most milk. If you say that you DON'T use rBGH, you get sued by 
Monsanto. And no one is going to put on the carton that they DO use it, they 
would probably get sued by Monsanto, too (they want there to be no 
distinction between rGBH and non-rGBH milk). There have been many lawsuits 
over this. The non-rBGH side usually wins (eventually), but the lack of 
labeling  law stands, and very few people can afford to be sued by Monsanto. 
There are a growing number of organic milk producers that have fought and 
won the right to say they don't use rBGH.

The GMO fight is worse. Most of us eat GMO food every day, and don't know 
it. Most of what comes from the supermarket has corn and/or soy in it, and 
much of that is GMO. They aren't required to tell us.

Lynn Wigglesworth 



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Subject: Re: [Homestead] Where are the protesters?
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I posted about PM and this is a good example.  The sheople who are
worshipping at the feet of the Shiney One are buying all he and the major
media stations are selling.

For example -- the birthers.  Those nasty right wing #(&*#&W%^ blankity
blanks!  Oh yeah, we've all either heard it all or read it all, etc.  Those
nasty ol' right wing conspiracy nuts who are trying to besmirk the prez.

HELLO PEOPLE!  This all started BEFORE Shiney One was nominated by the DNC.
AND, the man who filed the lawsuit is a card carrying member of the
DEMOCRATIC Party.  In fact, he was head of his state DNC at one time!

Anyone tries to do anything and the Chicago Machine turns it and spins it
and just plain flat out LIES!  Short of an actual revolution, we're in for
one nasty 4 year ride!

Lynda
All politicians should be limited to two terms:  one in office, one in jail.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Lynn Wigglesworth" <lynnw1366 AT hotmail.com>


 They also are protesting the wrong things in the wrong ways;
> protesting every utterance Obama makes just makes them look like raving
> fanatics. By the end, I think the republicans will lose everyone but the
> loonies. I think the Tea Parties are the right idea, and it's time for a
> new
> leader to appear, A constitutionalist who doesn't spout lies or hate would
> grab my attention..
tead