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  • From: Leslie <cayadopi AT yahoo.com>
  • To: homestead AT lists.ibiblio.org
  • Subject: Re: [Homestead] Where are the protesters?
  • Date: Mon, 7 Sep 2009 16:40:16 -0700 (PDT)

Communist plot probably isn't the right way to phrase what is going on, but I
don't know what the right word or phrase would be either.  I have come across
quite a bit over the past few years from various sources (including Russian
professor types) that cite similar, let's call them "goals to topple the US
from its economic and military pedastle".  And it isn't just from the
Russians.
 
Agree, Obama is just one in a long line........ and they all are always
throwing the sheeples a trinket to divert our attention.  Actually, there are
precedents for believing the gov't will seize (temporarily, ha ha) 401ks and
IRA, etc.
 
 
<<<They also are protesting the wrong things in the wrong ways;
protesting every utterance Obama makes just makes them look like raving
fanatics>>>
 
Just as the Dems anti-Bush claims make them look like raving Dem fanatics.
 
But I 100% agree they are protesting the wrong things in the wrong ways.
 
 
Funny thing is, as you know, we had a Constitutionalist who didn't spout lies 
run for office.   Ron Paul.  
 
There is one caution about the Tea Parties, and that is to be careful to make
sure that any people they support aren't Trojan Republicans.  While I support
the Tea Parties, End the Fed, and similar movements, I'm also cautious about
the Tea Party movement in particular being hi-jacked.  By and large the
"ground level" people I've talked to have become really really angry at both
the Dems and Repubs - and these people I've walked up to and talked to are
from all parties.  However, I do have some questions about some of the ideals
of the people higher up the ladder, those little freudian slips.  Anyone
running for any office now needs to be vetted out carefully, and IMO, we need
some kind of laws (yikes, did I really say that?), yep we need some kind of
law that if any government officials passes something unconstitutional that
they get indicted for treason, with no bail permitted under the "risk of
flight" type of rules.
 
 
 
Coincidently, I just came across this lengthy article from Mises.org,
"Inflation and the Fall of the Roman Empire".
 
http://mises.org/story/3663
 
Naturally, my curiosity was piqued by the title due to my belief that the US
is entering a period of hyper-inflation.
 
In short, it explains how the increasing size of government, caused the need
to debase their currency, caused a hyper-inflation, and the eventual
collapse.  It also explains how the taxation was for the benefit of the
government beaurocrats and military at the expense of impoverishing the
people, and at the expense of the freedom of the people.  Additionally, the
beaurocrats and the military enjoined the benefits of a gold standard, while
the peasants had the equivalent of paper money and suffered a
hyper-inflation.  Even back then, Diocletan blamed the greedy merchants for
the cause of all the ills, instead of the government's policies and the
debasement of the currency.....  History repeats......
 
 
I read this with that thought in mind, history repeats, to see if we have any
clues for the future.  One clue is that once the government had debased the
currency too far, the people stopped refusing to accept the government issued
coinage, and resorted to barter.  The coinage was so debased that the
government wouldn't even accept it in payment for taxes, and demanded the
goods produced by the masses as payment for taxes.  Shheeeessshhh.
 
There is an interesting quote in the article by a Christian priest, Salvian
of Merseille,,, basically that the Roman state collapsed because it deserved
to collapse because it had denied the first premise of good government, which
is a just system of taxation to the people. 
 
We have so many hidden taxes in this country that is has become an UN-just
system.  Inflation is the most mis-understood tax of them all.  It is a great
taxation scheme and wealth transfer scheme.  The tea parties main protest is
against taxes:  "Taxed Enough Already".  Yet the opposition claims taxes are
historically low by pointing at just the Federal income tax rate.  This is a
huge slight of hand....
 
It looks like in the end of this article (actually it was a speach given),
that the romans were happy to be captured by barbarians,,,, just to get out
from under the taxing beaurocracy of the Romans..........
 
YIKES.........  Gives a whole new meaning to the name of that movie
"BARBARIANS AT THE GATES".  (Wall Street Barbarians....)
 
Good questions!! I think we agree in principle, but I don't see this as a
communist plot. It is the natural outcome of government siding with
corporations, to the detriment of the little guy, both small business and
consumer. Obama is just the latest in a long line of presidents favoring
corporations. Him giving bailouts to Wall St. so they could continue giving
million dollar bonuses to failed CEOs is just the latest slap in the face to
taxpayers. We are doing this to ourselves.

Sheeples, indeed. Throw them a few trinkets, and they will quiet down. I
think this country has forgotten how to do a proper revolution. People will
protest, unless it means losing their job or 401k. Or missing their favorite
TV show. They also are protesting the wrong things in the wrong ways;
protesting every utterance Obama makes just makes them look like raving
fanatics. By the end, I think the republicans will lose everyone but the
loonies. I think the Tea Parties are the right idea, and it's time for a new
leader to appear, A constitutionalist who doesn't spout lies or hate would
grab my attention..

Lynn Wigglesworth
----- Original Message -----
From: "Leslie" <cayadopi AT yahoo.com>
To: <homestead AT lists.ibiblio.org>
Sent: Monday, September 07, 2009 5:30 PM
Subject: Re: [Homestead] Where are the protesters?






________________________________

From: Lynn Wigglesworth lynnw1366 AT hotmail.com

<<< I don't like the whole slant of this article:that a country "wins" or
"loses" by how effective it is in forcing it's ideology on other countries.
The socialist ideas in this country aren't a communist plot. They are coming
from within and are a natural consequence of the corruption that is making
the divide between rich and poor wider every year. >>>

Do you think that Putin and his predecessors and allies haven't been
plotting the final blow to America, by using the tactic of Collapse from
Within? I thought the author made a great point ---- that any country who
wanted to defeat us must have had to consider our considerable advanced war
technology as being next to impossible to beat. Therefore, you would have to
attack us in a non-conventional way, and do so with a long term plan in
mind.

I agree that the divide between the rich and the poor grows wider every
year. It is quite likely a very effective the way to destabilize a
government, to weaken it.


<<<Like the Russian Revolution, the French Revolution, or in many ways the
American Revolution,
the peasants are fed up with the injustice of it all.>>>

I'm not well schooled enough in history to debate this. The French
Revolution to replace monarchial rule led to a time of poverty and failures
of mutliple attempts to redefine rule, which eventually led to a coup d'etat
by Napolean, who became Emperor. Clearly the Russian Revolution didn't lead
to propserity for the masses when they adopted their socialist form of
government..the gap between the poverty of the masses and the wealthy there
was told to me by first hand account as my father worked behind the wall in
Russia many times.. The American Revolution, however, did lead to freedom
and prosperity for the masses when they adopted capitalism..... at least
until such time as the greedy at the top and bottom figured out a way to
manipulate politicians into changing the rules in their favor, and little by
little capitalism was replaced with a combianation of socialistic and
fascist ideals.


<<<We don't have anything even close to true capitalism or free markets
here. >>>

I agree. We have been a stealth fascist nation for at least 50 years, that
is if fascism is defined as a merger of state and corporate interests.


<<<<By the same token, the USSR wasn't a true communist country; more a
totalitarian dictatorship. Ironically, those at the bottom were heavily
regulated, while the few at the top flourished. Some things are universal,
huh?>>>>

Which brings me back to me pointing the finger at the sheeples..........
Sheeples must always be on the lookout for those few who are always looking
to abuse and corrupt in order to poor the masses. When they don't, and we
haven't,,,, this disparity becomes more and more apparent.


It seems the disparity is more widely recognized by the sheeples now.... I
guess the question now is will this foster revolution? And what will be
outcome if that happens? Who wins? Oppressors or the masses? If the
oppressors, my guess is we become corporate slaves.

And if the masses - which direction will they take? Will they remember that
the US Consitution fostered an environment that permitted a twist on Karl
Marx................. "TO each according to his ability" (Instead of FROM
each), which created the wealth of this country? Will they form a
dictatorship, Marxist type state? Or do we follow the French and flounder
about in one failed experiment after another until a new emporer arrives?



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________________________________

From: Lynn Wigglesworth <lynnw1366 AT hotmail.com>
To: homestead AT lists.ibiblio.org
Sent: Monday, September 7, 2009 5:58:35 PM
Subject: Re: [Homestead] Where are the protesters?




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Date: Mon, 7 Sep 2009 17:02:39 -0700 (PDT)
From: Leslie <cayadopi AT yahoo.com>
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Subject: Re: [Homestead] Talk about disrespect!
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Yes, very scary that much of what we are eating is GMO ................ and
one heck of a motivation to grow our own food.


I fail to see a legal distinction on the Monsanto expample, on why they think
they have grounds to file suit in the first place.

A shampoo manufacturer can make the claim, "no animal testing" and not be
sued by those manufacturers that do use animal testing.  In this type of
example, a consumer who doesn't believe in animal testing can purchase one
brand, and a consumer who wants animals tested first believing that makes
consumers more safe, can choose the other brand.

To me, there should be nothing to prohibit a producer of milk from stating
how the animals are treated and what, if any, hormones or antibiotics or
genetics, etc. have been employed to produce the milk.  That way, those
consumers who don't want rGBH can choose.  And those who don't think there is
a problem, can choose that milk.


To me, Monsanto suing someone over what they put on their label (as long as
it is 100% true) makes them an economic predator against their
competitors.................

Now, if Monsanto can prove no harm is being done, if they wanted to file a
suit, to me the only person elligible to be sued would be a person/company
making a claim that rGBH is harmful.... because that is a direct libel or
slander.

To me, however, stating that you do not use rGBH, can not and should not fall
under libel/slander if it is a simple statement of fact, "we don't use it".

Tort reform needed here.......... maybe to the tune of 100x damages for any
lawsuit filed against a person/entity who is simply stating a fact, and not
making a false claim.




Back to rGBH for a second.  A lot of human arthritis can be tracked back to
dairy.... one of those things that make ya go HMMMMMMMMMMMM.  (see the book I
Cured My Arthritis and So Can You, authored by a long time RA sufferer).  I
drank raw milk as a kid.  No problem.  Later as a young adult, arthritic like
symptoms, severe inflammation,,, thousands of dollars later and no definitive
diagnosis (but they did rule out RA).... I read that book.  Stopped dairy
products and whallah, cured.  Except for the day after when I just have to
stop and get an ice-cream..... which I pay for the next day with joint
inflammation.  rGBH connection?  Have no idea.  All I know is there is
something in dairy that bothers me.  It sure would be interesting to see if
raw milk with no rGBH affected me or not.... that would be a big clue for me.




________________________________
From: Lynn Wigglesworth lynnw1366 AT hotmail.com
>in order to sell their >product.

That would be most milk. If you say that you DON'T use rBGH, you get sued by
Monsanto. And no one is going to put on the carton that they DO use it, they
would probably get sued by Monsanto, too (they want there to be no
distinction between rGBH and non-rGBH milk). There have been many lawsuits
over this. The non-rBGH side usually wins (eventually), but the lack of
labeling  law stands, and very few people can afford to be sued by Monsanto.
There are a growing number of organic milk producers that have fought and
won the right to say they don't use rBGH.

The GMO fight is worse. Most of us eat GMO food every day, and don't know
it. Most of what comes from the supermarket has corn and/or soy in it, and
much of that is GMO. They aren't required to tell us.

Lynn Wigglesworth



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Subject: Re: [Homestead] Where are the protesters?
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I posted about PM and this is a good example. The sheople who are
worshipping at the feet of the Shiney One are buying all he and the major
media stations are selling.

For example -- the birthers. Those nasty right wing #(&*#&W%^ blankity
blanks! Oh yeah, we've all either heard it all or read it all, etc. Those
nasty ol' right wing conspiracy nuts who are trying to besmirk the prez.

HELLO PEOPLE! This all started BEFORE Shiney One was nominated by the DNC.
AND, the man who filed the lawsuit is a card carrying member of the
DEMOCRATIC Party. In fact, he was head of his state DNC at one time!

Anyone tries to do anything and the Chicago Machine turns it and spins it
and just plain flat out LIES! Short of an actual revolution, we're in for
one nasty 4 year ride!

Lynda
All politicians should be limited to two terms: one in office, one in jail.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Lynn Wigglesworth" <lynnw1366 AT hotmail.com>


They also are protesting the wrong things in the wrong ways;
> protesting every utterance Obama makes just makes them look like raving
> fanatics. By the end, I think the republicans will lose everyone but the
> loonies. I think the Tea Parties are the right idea, and it's time for a
> new
> leader to appear, A constitutionalist who doesn't spout lies or hate would
> grab my attention..
tead





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