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[EarthNSky <erthnsky AT bellsouth.net>]

Bill Jones wrote:
> I tried to research what exactly makes peat moss acidic in a chem
> text, but I'm even more stumped than ever.

I'd like to know what chemistry text even talked about peat moss...


It seems to teach that all acids
> are water-soluble.  Could anyone shed some light on this question?

I reread the posts in this thread, and I am not sure about the question,
but here are some comments..

First and foremost...after I stop laughing-and I almost died laughing
btw, I'll try to answer your "homestead" list questions here on this
'political rag' (I'm being sarcastic here, ring any bells?  If not,
review your post to me made last week...Really Bill, sometimes you can
be very rude, and I really don't know why I am responding after what you
said to me last..but...
Acids are proton (H+) donors and they bond readily with hydroxyl
groups(the OH in water), making them soluble.
I'll cut and paste your other post here, for convenience..

> you know sage, i'm planning to do blueberries in raised beds.  the
> ones in the ground are pitiful after 10 years.  i could never seem to
> get enough fertilizer on them.

Most plants decompose with the help of bacteria and those same bacteria
will often suck up nitrogen in the soil.  Chances are you mulched and
mulched good to conserve water, but in the process you may have
inadvertently robbed your bushes of nitrogen.  In my raised beds, I fill
them as high as I can with mulch or other plant material, then I add
manure, usually rabbit manure, to make sure there is enough nitrogen for
the good bacteria AND the plants.  If I am not going to plant directly
in them, I will add chicken litter and manure and let that rest for a
few months.


> they say that real alkalinity is hard to ovecome.

Is there a fake alkalinity??


  in droughty places,
> there's never enough rain to wash away sodium buildup. each watering
>  only adds more.  have you tried sulfur?  it's the only thing that
> works for my farmer/nephew in Yuma.  the sodium is still there, but
> at least it's neutralized to form sulfites and sulfates.

Who is trying to grow blueberries in salt?<g>  I assume you are
referring to sodium salts that form after the water itself evaporates.
Something like calcium sulfate could, in theory, be used for sodium
exchange, but this would be impractical and almost impossible in a home
garden environment, especially in an area where the only water available
for leaching out the replaced sodium ion is rain.  And of course, that
is under the assumption that the sodium salt in question is of a soluble
nature and could be ionized and exchanged to begin with.


> i assumed that peat moss was already as leached as can be, so i have
> an alternate theory.

First, peat moss is a generic term..there are different kinds of peat
and peat moss, and they are not created equal.  Moss peat comes from
mosses, while other peats come from swamp type plants that have
decomposed. Sphagnum peat moss is acid and doesn't rot easily so plants
grow right into it. Hypnum peat is neutral or even alkaline. Unlike
sphagnum, it decomposes quickly.  West coast peat would probably be
different from east coast peat because the nature of the originating
plant is different as is the nature of the rainfall which adds to the
bog, the geology of the area, etc.


 organic acids basically just have a carboxyl group
> (-COOH) attached to them, like vinegar (CH3COOH).
 but as molecules
> become larger, they're less likely to be soluble.

In pure water, that may be true, but change the pH or the temperature a
bit, and you just changed the entire equation, not to mention that in a
natural environment, you won't have pure water, you will have lots of
ions just waiting to perform redox reactions.


 so why not huge
> organic molecules left over from anaerobic decomposition of
> cellulose, with lots of -COOH groups attached?

You have just described sphagnum peat.


It seems to me that you are simply trying to grow blueberries in an
alkaline environment when berries like acid.  If peat doesn't float your
boat, try pine needles or coffee grounds.  Coffee grounds have the added
benefit of adding nitrogen AND acting as a buffer to keep the pH where
you want it.  Surely, in the great Pacific Northwest, you have an
abundance of pines and coffee?

Bev, former environmental, now adhesives chemist


--
Bevanron of EarthNSky Farm   Sleep well tonight, for somewhere in the
ocean's depths, MY son is protecting YOUR freedom.