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  • From: "trekky records" <willhack15 AT gmail.com>
  • To: ch-scene AT lists.ibiblio.org
  • Subject: Re: On Durham and identity
  • Date: 4 Apr 2007 19:58:03 -0700

On Apr 4, 9:18 pm, g... AT ibiblio.org (grady) wrote:
> I dunno, the external perception of Durham in some circles may be
> hardcore, but in a lot of areas I think it's really like a giant
> Carrboro with housing prices that are actually in line with the
> vintage/condition of the houses. Mix of aging hippies & young familes.
> Sure, Durham has some supremely poverty-stricken areas, and some streets
> that are crime-ier than others, but I don't really know that many
> musicians who're doing the urban pioneer thing in that sense.
>
> But yes, maybe the "feel" of Durham as more "gritty" (that term comes up
> a lot, from all sides) is appealing. Or maybe it's just that the
> inexpensive housing, due to the vicissitudes of urban un/development, is
> in closer proximity to interesting stuff, whether it be downtown, or the
> Roxboro taqueria belt, or just interesting old architecture.
>
> I certainly feel more "at home" in Durham (I should mention that I don't
> live there, though I've done a radio show there for ~12 years, many of
> my friends live there, and I'm likely moving there next year . . . I
> currently live in Chatham County, which is a whole other discussion)
> than in the other towns around. Chapel Hill/Carrboro seems too evenly
> divided between rich people and college students; Raleigh feels more
> like Charlotte every day, sadly. People in Durham feel more like people.
>
> I guess I'd get back to what I said earlier, about it being kind of a
> tabula rasa, but I'll phrase it differently: Durham feels kind of
> "anything-goes," but in a positive sense. Not wild west like Deadwood
> (although there's a running "cocksucker!" gag among certain Durham
> bands), but like this sense of untapped possibility. I think in order
> for that to pay off, there has to be a critical mass of people willing
> to say "yes! thank you for trying whatever crazy experiment you're
> trying!" and I would argue that this critical mass of freaks has only
> recently (past 3-5 years) grown to the point that it has become clearly
> visible to non-Durhamites.
>
> So, say, 10 years ago, Jim Kellough could open his Modern Museum in a
> basement off Foster Street, and have some amazing installation-art
> shows, and get a steady stream of Durhamites stopping by, but that
> stream might only add up to maybe 100 people seeing the show over the
> course of a few weeks. He was cool with that, the artists were cool with
> that. But (despite an Indy arts award), the ripples didn't necessarily
> travel that far out into the Triangle (or even into Durham-at-large).
>
> Contrast that with the crazy overflow crowds at the Rousse installations
> last year.
>
> So what is it about Durham that makes people so willing to come out for
> the weird/interesting stuff? I kind of feel like it has been this slow
> process of self-selection over the past dozen years, as layer upon layer
> of adventurous people moved to Durham & it thus became slightly more
> attractive to each additional layer.
>
> The DDI and the American Tobacco people like to congratulate themselves
> on all their hard work & all the money they've invested to accelerate
> this process, but the attractiveness of Durham to the true "creative
> class" (as vs. the faux creative class of advertising executives--sorry,
> Kevin) began before DDI came on the scene, and I don't think it has
> really been positively impacted (at least not directly) by all the new
> development.
>
> See also: the article in the Indy by Kate Dobbs Ariail a couple of
> months ago, about Scientific Properties & the redevelopment of one of
> the oldschool downtown Durham "creative class" buildings, leaving some
> of the earlier generation of Durham pioneers kinda out in the cold.
>
> (I read something disturbing the other day: is it true that one of the
> Scientific Properties principals developed some mini mansions on the
> site of the bulldozed Catalano House?)
>
> As re: your other points, regarding gender/politics/etc . . . I dunno,
> Internationalist & the Weaver Street Crowd are pretty hard to ignore
> when you're in Chapel Hill/Carrboro, at least if you're a member of
> their potential constituency, so I don't know that Durham has anything
> over them in terms of visibility per se.
>
> Which isn't to cast Durham as at all lacking in that area, although the
> current crop of commie bookstores & collaboratives in Durham are mostly
> mere pups compared to the 26-year-old Internationalist.
>
> But that may be part of the point, if I can be allowed to come back &
> belabor what has become my core idea one more time: Durham seems like
> more of a fertile ground for DIY, maybe *because* there is the
> perception that (a) it hasn't already been done [better] by a bunch of
> rich assholes in tie-dye driving volvos who'd be more than happy to tell
> you what a shitty job you're doing, and (b) there are people who will
> come out & support what you're doing.
>
> Note bene, however, that one of the oldest examples of left-wing DIY
> cooperative whatever-ness in Durham, the Durham Food Co-op, is in the
> midst of an awful internal struggle that has basically pitted one group
> (the ones who want to run it like a business, in the sense of not being
> horribly in debt, but also in the sense of a level of
> efficiency/organization that really offends some people) against another
> group of folks who still want to think of it as a co-op in all
> connotations of the term, good and bad.
>
> And some other group of people who just wanna argue, apparently,
> although I will confess I've avoided it entirely after hearing the
> horror stories of a friend who used to work there.
>
> I'd be interested to hear from all the Durham musicians who were Durham
> musicians back before all this attention began.
>
> Ross
>
> p.s. I can picture hardcore, of one kind or another, happening all over
> the Triangle . . . I've certainly seen it in house shows & small clubs
> in all three towns at one time or another. Now you've got me missing the
> Fallout Shelter again.
>
> Joel Peck wrote:
> > Cheap housing is not a new concept, but I don't think cheap housing is =
the
> > same everywhere.
> > Does Durham, arguably more "hardcore" in terms of its neighborhoods and
> > socio economics, provide an environment more apt to the "punk/hardcore"
> > aesthetic? Is there more visibility in terms of gender, sexual orienta=
tion,
> > and political leanings? Does Durham have a unique "More than Music" app=
roach
> > in terms of hosting discourse, DIY workshops, political gatherings, et =
al?
> > It seems Durham is more DIY than Chapel Hill, Carrboro, and Raleigh
> > combined. Thoughts?
>
> > On a side note: one of my favorite political hardcore bands, Born Again=
st,
> > have a youtube clip from a Durham show in 1992 or so. I don't know the
> > circumstances for why they played there, but I can't picture them anywh=
ere
> > else in the Triangle. Was anyone there?
>
> >> From: grady <g... AT ibiblio.org>
> >> Reply-To: RTP-area local music and culture <ch-sc... AT lists.ibiblio.org>
> >> To: RTP-area local music and culture <ch-sc... AT lists.ibiblio.org>
> >> Subject: Re: On Durham and identity
> >> Date: Wed, 04 Apr 2007 15:35:30 -0400
>
> >> Umm, I think so many groups are self-identifying as Durham bands becau=
se
> >> their members live in Durham. Root cause: for some folks, it's the most
> >> affordable place to live, and for a lot of folks, it's the most
> >> desireable place to live. I stopped counting a long time ago the number
> >> of my friends who'd moved to Durham from the other points in the Trian=
gle.
>
> >> So if you're trendspotting, the trend started at least a half-dozen
> >> years ago, and it's called "musicians like cheap housing."
>
> >> As for the question about t-shirts, well, I guess you just haven't seen
> >> the Carrboro t-shirts, or the OCSC t-shirts. Given the longstanding
> >> basketball/rock connection in Chapel Hill, I'd say any UNC
> >> basketball-related t-shirt would probably count for Chapel Hill.
>
> >> Are you asking "why does Durham have such uncanny self-esteem-boosting
> >> T-shirts?" Because the answer to that is pretty much "James & Michelle
> >> Lee," and if you start asking "why James & Michelle Lee," I'm not sure
> >> that there's an answer for that. Other than, getting back to point A,
> >> musicians like cheap housing. Where else could they afford to operate
> >> such a sprawling enterprise as 305 South?
>
> >> There are other folks whose outsized level of involvement/boosterism
> >> sort of singlehandedly makes Durham seem more "together" or "organized"
> >> or "scene-like" [than it actually is]: Melissa Thomas at 307 Knox, and
> >> certainly Chaz. Shannon Morrow moved back to Durham from Chicago (thou=
gh
> >> before she moved to Chicago, she was living in Carrboro, so there ya g=
o)
> >> & started the Scene of the Crime Rovers.
>
> >> What do all *these* people have in common? Maybe that they like the id=
ea
> >> of being able to get something done more or less singlehandedly, or wi=
th
> >> a small group of co-conspirators. Durham seems like a tabula rasa,
> >> culture-wise, at least to youngish white-ish indie-rockers. Check out
> >> that article in the Indy from a couple of weeks ago about the NCCU jazz
> >> program & you'll see that Durham isn't really such a clean slate, but
> >> when it comes to youth culture, all it takes is a fallow period of a
> >> couple of years to wipe everything pretty clean.
>
> >> Maybe another thing they have in common is the good old fashioned
> >> punkrock ideal that community is a good thing, and that building
> >> community is an end unto itself. Obviously there are some folks who ha=
ve
> >> slightly different ideas (i.e. the Troika folks who like to salt the
> >> festival lineup with a few out-of-towners), but even they do what they
> >> do by and large for the sake of the community, rather than out of some
> >> quest for larger fame/fortune.
>
> >> But then I think you'd have to go all the way to Charlotte to really
> >> find anybody who was desperately seeking fame via indie-rock. Oh, well,
> >> I guess there are those guys from Raleigh who bought a tour bus to live
> >> in while they wait for their ship to come in, Airiel Down, but they're
> >> an aberration even for Raleigh.
>
> ...
>
> read more =BB

i think you're definitely right about the "newness" distinction. the
DIY/hippie/indie/whatever culture in CH sometimes seems so stale, and,
as you said, most of the institutions are SO old, so established.
great, but not exciting. so, the fact that durham is cheap is half of
it, but i also think something like BCHQ might not take off in CH,
just because of that general feeling of "we probably already have
something like that, or at least something similar enough for me to
just go to that one". which is silly, cause we DON'T have something
like that, and i want it.

ALSO, WXYC has had TWO practices in preparation for the kickball game
and WXDU should be shaking in their boots. last years contentious
barely-a-victory by XDU will soon be forgotten.

-will





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