Baslinux mailing list

[sindi keesan <keesan AT sdf.lonestar.org>]

On Wed, 19 Jan 2005, Stephen Clement wrote:

> sindi keesan wrote:
>
> > > > > Is copy protection something at the very end of the disk which would 
> > > > > explain why I got 10 pages of identical error messages while copying the 
> > > > > final track?  And only if I copied to the very end and recorded it all 
> > > > > successfully would the copy protection end up on the copy of teh CD and 
> > > > > keep it from playing, while the copy I made on the incompatible burner, 
> > > > > with lots of errors, so bad that cdrecord quit after recording just the 
> > > > > first 6 of 36 files, would play them okay (no copy protection even got 
> > > > > onto the disk).
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > Yes, copy protection is usually is the cause of tons of error messages 
> > > > near the end of the CD. Although like I said below the problem is 
> > > > probably not copy protection. I have no idea why cdrecord is having 
> > > > problems though.
> > > >
> > > > > This CD also does not play on one CD deck.  I will try copying a 
> > > > > different CD and make a cassette tape of this one.
> > > > >
> > > > > So copy protection explains many things, including why the wav files 
> > > > > were playable on hard drive but not on CD.
> > >
> > > > > If I were to record all but the final track might it play?
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > Don't know.


I did a test.  I used cdda2wav on the last track of all my library CDs, 
and I got these error messages on:  SONY, 2 Deutsche Grammophon, 2 EMI, 1 
Teldec.  The Philips CDs did not give me error messages.

I was able to record all but teh last tracks of the CDs which had last 
tracks with error messages, and play them.  SO I think all but Philips 
used copy protection.

I did cdda2wav -J and it told me all the CDs were NOT copy-permitted (copy 
permission NO) but the PHilips did not give me that error.

So I made one CD with the first half of each of three copy-protected CDs 
(9 tracks) and all the tracks played.  Now I made another CD with parts of 
three CDs and included the last track of a Philips CD and it also plays. 
I have the solution - get Philips CDs from the library if I want the last 
track, otherwise copy the first pieces but not the last (unless I want all 
but the last movement of a concerto).

My friend did not know her professionally-recorded and stamped CD was copy 
protected.  I said I would copy tracks 1-35 and skip 36.

> > >
> >
> > > > Most CD's that you buy in stores have some form of copy protection logo. 
> > > > Look on the back of the CD especially and inside the cover. Note, I'm 
> > > > talking about Canadian/American CD's here and have no idea what CD's are 
> > > > like wherever you may live.
> > I live in the US near Canada (Michigan).
>
> Cool, I'm from Canada (Hamilton, Ontario which is near Toronto)


We visited there once, a family from Pakistan that my mother met in 
Boston.  If you ever get near Ann Arbor Michigan stop by.

I have not found anything on the CD or cover about copy protection.

> > The next three CDs I tried to rip also gave me lots of identical errors on 
> > the very last track.  I don't see anything about protection on them.
>
> Ok, then your problem is in cdda2wav.
>
> > cdda2wav -J told me something about copy-permitted.
>
> That's normal.
All the CDs say 'copy-permission no'.
The two Philips worked just fine with cdda2wav so that is not the problem.

> > Some online reading led me to the fact that other people have had this 
> > problem and it is due to an intentionally erroneous checksum embedded in 
> > the last track which causes it to go in loops and time out.  cdparanoia and 
> > cdda2wav have the same problem.  (Have not tried DOS cd2wav on it). Someone 
> > said it is possible to copy all but the last track so I am currently 
> > attempting to record the first halves of three different CDs onto one blank 
> > as an experiment.  I hope Bach, von Weber, and Wynton Marsalis like each 
> > other.
>
> Ok, hope to find out what's going on :) .

Copy protection seems to be the problem, and so far my only solution is to 
not record the last track if it gives me errors (and to select Philips CDs 
if I want to practice recording the whole CD).

> > I will rip (copy from CD to wav) the first track of any CD first to see if 
> > the whole CD is copyable and eventually figure out which company besides 
> > Sony and D. Gram. to avoid copying.  I wonder if this lost them sales.
>
> Sony recently has been using alot of copy protection, although I don't know 
> about the other record labels.
Teldec and EMI too.

> > During cdrecord on this 2X drive I have some other error message about 
> > Drive returns wrong startsec (0) using -150 but eventually after a long 
> > pause at 1 MB it is slowly recording. (The drive has only about 2000 jitter 
> > and works with cdda2wav).  Other people had this message and hypothesized 
> > bad medium (I tried several blanks) or drive going bad (in my case I know 
> > it is worn out and we had to clean it to get it to work at all for data 
> > CDs).  I will find out if this worked.
>
> Ah! 2000 jitter! That's not very good you know, even my ancient drives get 
> less than 50 jitter.

Up to occasional 4000 jitter did not cause any problems except possibly a 
slowdown.  Nor did the 'wrong startsec' - it took an extra minute or two 
to start recording the first track but after that proceeded normally.

I have jitter from 0 to 400 on this 2X burner (which does work fine with 
cdda2wav and reads at 24X) and on one 48X burner.  THe other 48X and the 
54X have 0 jitter.  I will retire the 8X to playing CDs while plugged into 
a power supply and boombox, because it has a play button.  But we have too 
many of these now and one even has >> and << buttons.

> > cdrecord -v -dao *.wav
> >
> > (I have speed and dev in profile and default fifo).
> > Without -dao it will add 2 sec gap between tracks.

Or -audio *.cdr (or *.raw - same thing, two different names, says man 
cdda2wav)

cdda2wav -e -q will (in quiet mode) play the CD  while ripping it at 1X.

> > I have finished nearly 2 tracks out of 14 in only about 10 minutes.  Last 
> > time we recorded a data CD in only about 40 minutes.  Better than the 3 
> > hour cdda2wav copy using an 8X reader.
> >
> > So far three out of four CDs have had copy protection on the last track but 
> > I read that some company was scattering it at random and it was interfering 
> > with even playing music CDs on a computer drive.
>
> Yep, they're doing that now. Especially Sony.
Something to watch out for.  What year did they start randomizing?  Our 
library has a lot of 1990-92 CDs.


> > The 1991 Philips CD copied the last track, 1992 Sony and 1992 Deutsche 
> > Grammophon did not and there is no indication on the CD of copy protection 
> > that I could find.
> >
> > To  make life more interesting, play and workbone also would not work on 
> > the first few tries then suddenly worked perfectly with no reboot or 
> > software changes - maybe the sound card warmed up?  And the CD-ROM drives 
> > do not appear (either of them) to be connected to the sound cable but we 
> > got sound out the front of one of them.
>
> Odd. Just plain odd.
Today it all worked on the first try and the CD-ROM is playing out through 
the sound card with no changes in cabling.  Electronics can be fussy.

> > And the bare-i kernel would not boot (crc error) until my partner changed 
> > the boot drive from D: (DOS) back to C: (Windows) with fdisk, though the 
> > Slackware kernel booted properly.  He has been playing with MS DOS 7.1 
> > standalone version and trying out FreeDOS CD-ROM driver, I think.  Or maybe 
> > the latest FreeDOS himem.exe, since the previous one puts 77s in unwanted 
> > places on one computer.  I still could not boot even if I hit F5 to bypass 
> > system files.  Something strange going on.

He has the two partitions set up so each one can boot if you make it 
active, andhas apparently done something interesting to the DOS partition 
so it won't boot the bare.i kernel but will boot the slackware kernel.
He said something about a new CD-ROM driver (from FreeDOS?).


 >> 
> > I may try making a CD copy of all but the last track of my friend's CD.
> >
> > One suggestion was to write with a felt-tipped pen around the margins of a 
> > copy protected CD to defeat the copy protection.  How would that work?
>
> Don't know for sure, although sometimes they record a seperate track at the 
> end, and they hide it in there.
Would that also interfere with playing the last track?

> > A simpler solution is to go back to taping library CDs.  Around here we 
> > find lots of good quality used tapes at the curb.  The library probably 
> > would not appreciate us using felt-tipped pens on their CDs.
>
> Tapes just aren't as good quality in my opinion, though.
They are certainly easier to make, and I can record to them by voice 
listing what is on them.

> > Could one record from line out of the sound card (or a receiver playing an 
> > LP) to line in of another (or maybe the same?) computer to get an analog 
> > sound file - .wav ? - and then use cdrecord to make an audio CD from the 
> > .wav file?  Supposedly the quality would not be as good, but no worse than 
> > a tape I hope.  It cannot be any slower than what I am doing now.

A project for next winter maybe, after I learn to compile ghostscript.
I have no idea how to record analog sound - do you?

> > I am on track 7 of 14 and could be done by midnight.
>
> Well its 2AM here. Hope you get back to the list by the morning.

Here I am, listening to the copied CD which contains the final track of a 
Philips lihrary CD.

With your help, I think I understand better what is going on now.

I used a text editor to type up the list of what is on the CD since I have 
not gotten SANE to work in linux yet.  Hal says he discovered that one of 
his scanners with proprietary card will work on his computer with AMD K6 
but not on another computer, same software, where it finds the scanner 
card but not the scanner.  The SANE 0.57 that I compiled (first version to 
work with my B/W HP 3p) finds the card but not the scanner however it is 
an ISA card and I don't have space for it in the computer with AMD K6 
(unless I switch to PCI sound and I don't have PCI SB16) so I got a pci 
scanner card and UMAX - does anyone have experience with this brand and 
SANE?  I will need to compile a newer scanimage for it.

SW81 has a scanner package but it is immense and does far more than I 
need.

The scanner is the last thing I have not yet got working without 
Windows.    I never understand what is going on in Windows.


> Thanks,
> Stephen Clement
> _______________________________________________
> BasLinux mailing list