From sam.brungardt at state.mn.us Wed Oct 7 17:38:23 2015 From: sam.brungardt at state.mn.us (Brungardt, Sam (MPCA)) Date: Wed, 7 Oct 2015 21:38:23 +0000 Subject: [nafex] Jujube: Texas producers learn to grow, how to eat little-known fruit Message-ID: <1268E36B214F7D4F968B0285BF5CF3E4057BB68E@055-CH1MPN1-031.055d.mgd.msft.net> Jujube: Texas producers learn to grow, how to eat little-known fruit AgriLife Today COLLEGE STATION - Several hands raised when asked at the annual Texas Fruit Conference who had acreage of jujube. "What were you thinking? Story URL: http://today.agrilife.org/2015/10/06/jujube-texas-producers-learn-to-grow-how-to-eat-little-known-fruit/ From ramoyer at gmail.com Wed Oct 7 20:18:39 2015 From: ramoyer at gmail.com (Richard Moyer) Date: Wed, 7 Oct 2015 20:18:39 -0400 Subject: [nafex] Jujube fresh eating, preservation and marketing Message-ID: We dry ours and they last forever. While living and shopping in Seoul, Korea, we never saw them fresh, but always dried. Some market stands had ONLY jujubes, of various sizes and shapes, priced accordingly. Hundreds of lbs, all dried. I understand the Vietnamese and Indians prefer them in the crispy, less ripe stage, as referred to in this articles. Indians staying with us have picked out the less ripe ones, not eating the riper (shriveled ones). Long story short, we sell most of ours dried. They keep forever that way, so we're not scrambling for buyers. Richard Moyer SW VA, where all our jujubes survived -15F last winter. On Wed, Oct 7, 2015 at 5:39 PM, wrote: > Send nafex mailing list submissions to > nafex at lists.ibiblio.org > > To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit > http://lists.ibiblio.org/mailman/listinfo/nafex > or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to > nafex-request at lists.ibiblio.org > > You can reach the person managing the list at > nafex-owner at lists.ibiblio.org > > When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific > than "Re: Contents of nafex digest..." > > > Today's Topics: > > 1. Jujube: Texas producers learn to grow, how to eat > little-known fruit (Brungardt, Sam (MPCA)) > > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > > Message: 1 > Date: Wed, 7 Oct 2015 21:38:23 +0000 > From: "Brungardt, Sam (MPCA)" > To: mailing list at ibiblio - Northamerican Allied Fruit Experimenters > > Subject: [nafex] Jujube: Texas producers learn to grow, how to eat > little-known fruit > Message-ID: > < > 1268E36B214F7D4F968B0285BF5CF3E4057BB68E at 055-CH1MPN1-031.055d.mgd.msft.net > > > > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" > > Jujube: Texas producers learn to grow, how to eat little-known fruit < > https://www.google.com/url?rct=j&sa=t&url=http://today.agrilife.org/2015/10/06/jujube-texas-producers-learn-to-grow-how-to-eat-little-known-fruit/&ct=ga&cd=CAEYBioTMzA4OTY5OTU5MjkyNjc5NzE3MDIaZGZlMDEyNzc3YmU4NDVhNjpjb206ZW46VVM&usg=AFQjCNE9aq2mUr1k9MJyUUz4_k5SIgGmwg > > > AgriLife Today > COLLEGE STATION - Several hands raised when asked at the annual Texas > Fruit Conference who had acreage of jujube. "What were you thinking? > > Story URL: > http://today.agrilife.org/2015/10/06/jujube-texas-producers-learn-to-grow-how-to-eat-little-known-fruit/ > > > > ------------------------------ > > Subject: Digest Footer > > __________________ > nafex mailing list > nafex at lists.ibiblio.org > Northamerican Allied Fruit Experimenters > subscribe/unsubscribe|user config|list info: > http://lists.ibiblio.org/mailman/listinfo/nafex > > ------------------------------ > > End of nafex Digest, Vol 156, Issue 1 > ************************************* > From ehilborn at mebtel.net Wed Oct 7 22:11:50 2015 From: ehilborn at mebtel.net (Elizabeth Hilborn) Date: Wed, 7 Oct 2015 22:11:50 -0400 Subject: [nafex] Jujube fresh eating, preservation and marketing In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <5615D0E6.2050608@mebtel.net> I do not enough fruit to market. The dried fruit tastes remarkably like dates (to my palate), but the fresh fruit is interesting. When some green is present, I taste a mild, sweet almost apple flavor. When mahogany brown, but while still plump, caramel notes with intense sweetness are present. The flavor varies by year somewhat, and although the fruit is billed as drought resistant, the texture is less crisp and juicy if the trees do not get enough water. My favorite uses for the fruit include fresh eating, and especially, stewing- no sugar needed to my taste. The fruit gets a delicate flavor with a pale pink juice and a light floral aroma. Richard, do you dry them whole? I process mine to remove the seeds and end up with small jujube chips, pretty labor intensive. Betsy Hilborn 7a NC On 10/7/2015 8:18 PM, Richard Moyer wrote: > We dry ours and they last forever. While living and shopping in Seoul, > Korea, we never saw them fresh, but always dried. Some market stands had > ONLY jujubes, of various sizes and shapes, priced accordingly. Hundreds of > lbs, all dried. > > I understand the Vietnamese and Indians prefer them in the crispy, less > ripe stage, as referred to in this articles. Indians staying with us have > picked out the less ripe ones, not eating the riper (shriveled ones). > > Long story short, we sell most of ours dried. They keep forever that way, > so we're not scrambling for buyers. > > Richard Moyer > SW VA, where all our jujubes survived -15F last winter. > > On Wed, Oct 7, 2015 at 5:39 PM, wrote: > >> Send nafex mailing list submissions to >> nafex at lists.ibiblio.org >> >> To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit >> http://lists.ibiblio.org/mailman/listinfo/nafex >> or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to >> nafex-request at lists.ibiblio.org >> >> You can reach the person managing the list at >> nafex-owner at lists.ibiblio.org >> >> When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific >> than "Re: Contents of nafex digest..." >> >> >> Today's Topics: >> >> 1. Jujube: Texas producers learn to grow, how to eat >> little-known fruit (Brungardt, Sam (MPCA)) >> >> >> ---------------------------------------------------------------------- >> >> Message: 1 >> Date: Wed, 7 Oct 2015 21:38:23 +0000 >> From: "Brungardt, Sam (MPCA)" >> To: mailing list at ibiblio - Northamerican Allied Fruit Experimenters >> >> Subject: [nafex] Jujube: Texas producers learn to grow, how to eat >> little-known fruit >> Message-ID: >> < >> 1268E36B214F7D4F968B0285BF5CF3E4057BB68E at 055-CH1MPN1-031.055d.mgd.msft.net >> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" >> >> Jujube: Texas producers learn to grow, how to eat little-known fruit < >> https://www.google.com/url?rct=j&sa=t&url=http://today.agrilife.org/2015/10/06/jujube-texas-producers-learn-to-grow-how-to-eat-little-known-fruit/&ct=ga&cd=CAEYBioTMzA4OTY5OTU5MjkyNjc5NzE3MDIaZGZlMDEyNzc3YmU4NDVhNjpjb206ZW46VVM&usg=AFQjCNE9aq2mUr1k9MJyUUz4_k5SIgGmwg >> AgriLife Today >> COLLEGE STATION - Several hands raised when asked at the annual Texas >> Fruit Conference who had acreage of jujube. "What were you thinking? >> >> Story URL: >> http://today.agrilife.org/2015/10/06/jujube-texas-producers-learn-to-grow-how-to-eat-little-known-fruit/ >> >> >> From ramoyer at gmail.com Wed Oct 7 22:35:42 2015 From: ramoyer at gmail.com (Richard Moyer) Date: Wed, 7 Oct 2015 22:35:42 -0400 Subject: [nafex] nafex Digest, Vol 156, Issue 3 In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Betsy, What we snacked on in Korea always had pits in them. The ones sliced up with an exacto knife, they were for very thin garnish on cakes, so no seed there. And sam gye tang, the sweet-savory stew, had dried jujubes stewed, seeds always in them. Chicken, sticky rice, garlic, ginseng, plus dried jujubes. So you ate the soft fruit off the seeds and did not swallow them. But you didn't swallow the chicken bones either! On Wed, Oct 7, 2015 at 10:11 PM, wrote: > Send nafex mailing list submissions to > nafex at lists.ibiblio.org > > To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit > http://lists.ibiblio.org/mailman/listinfo/nafex > or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to > nafex-request at lists.ibiblio.org > > You can reach the person managing the list at > nafex-owner at lists.ibiblio.org > > When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific > than "Re: Contents of nafex digest..." > > > Today's Topics: > > 1. Re: Jujube fresh eating, preservation and marketing > (Elizabeth Hilborn) > > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > > Message: 1 > Date: Wed, 7 Oct 2015 22:11:50 -0400 > From: Elizabeth Hilborn > To: mailing list at ibiblio - Northamerican Allied Fruit Experimenters > > Subject: Re: [nafex] Jujube fresh eating, preservation and marketing > Message-ID: <5615D0E6.2050608 at mebtel.net> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252; format=flowed > > I do not enough fruit to market. The dried fruit tastes remarkably like > dates (to my palate), but the fresh fruit is interesting. When some > green is present, I taste a mild, sweet almost apple flavor. When > mahogany brown, but while still plump, caramel notes with intense > sweetness are present. The flavor varies by year somewhat, and although > the fruit is billed as drought resistant, the texture is less crisp and > juicy if the trees do not get enough water. > > My favorite uses for the fruit include fresh eating, and especially, > stewing- no sugar needed to my taste. The fruit gets a delicate flavor > with a pale pink juice and a light floral aroma. > > Richard, do you dry them whole? I process mine to remove the seeds and > end up with small jujube chips, pretty labor intensive. > > Betsy Hilborn > 7a NC > > On 10/7/2015 8:18 PM, Richard Moyer wrote: > > We dry ours and they last forever. While living and shopping in Seoul, > > Korea, we never saw them fresh, but always dried. Some market stands had > > ONLY jujubes, of various sizes and shapes, priced accordingly. Hundreds > of > > lbs, all dried. > > > > I understand the Vietnamese and Indians prefer them in the crispy, less > > ripe stage, as referred to in this articles. Indians staying with us > have > > picked out the less ripe ones, not eating the riper (shriveled ones). > > > > Long story short, we sell most of ours dried. They keep forever that > way, > > so we're not scrambling for buyers. > > > > Richard Moyer > > SW VA, where all our jujubes survived -15F last winter. > > > > On Wed, Oct 7, 2015 at 5:39 PM, wrote: > > > >> Send nafex mailing list submissions to > >> nafex at lists.ibiblio.org > >> > >> To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit > >> http://lists.ibiblio.org/mailman/listinfo/nafex > >> or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to > >> nafex-request at lists.ibiblio.org > >> > >> You can reach the person managing the list at > >> nafex-owner at lists.ibiblio.org > >> > >> When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific > >> than "Re: Contents of nafex digest..." > >> > >> > >> Today's Topics: > >> > >> 1. Jujube: Texas producers learn to grow, how to eat > >> little-known fruit (Brungardt, Sam (MPCA)) > >> > >> > >> ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > >> > >> Message: 1 > >> Date: Wed, 7 Oct 2015 21:38:23 +0000 > >> From: "Brungardt, Sam (MPCA)" > >> To: mailing list at ibiblio - Northamerican Allied Fruit Experimenters > >> > >> Subject: [nafex] Jujube: Texas producers learn to grow, how to eat > >> little-known fruit > >> Message-ID: > >> < > >> > 1268E36B214F7D4F968B0285BF5CF3E4057BB68E at 055-CH1MPN1-031.055d.mgd.msft.net > >> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" > >> > >> Jujube: Texas producers learn to grow, how to eat little-known fruit < > >> > https://www.google.com/url?rct=j&sa=t&url=http://today.agrilife.org/2015/10/06/jujube-texas-producers-learn-to-grow-how-to-eat-little-known-fruit/&ct=ga&cd=CAEYBioTMzA4OTY5OTU5MjkyNjc5NzE3MDIaZGZlMDEyNzc3YmU4NDVhNjpjb206ZW46VVM&usg=AFQjCNE9aq2mUr1k9MJyUUz4_k5SIgGmwg > >> AgriLife Today > >> COLLEGE STATION - Several hands raised when asked at the annual Texas > >> Fruit Conference who had acreage of jujube. "What were you thinking? > >> > >> Story URL: > >> > http://today.agrilife.org/2015/10/06/jujube-texas-producers-learn-to-grow-how-to-eat-little-known-fruit/ > >> > >> > >> > > > > ------------------------------ > > Subject: Digest Footer > > __________________ > nafex mailing list > nafex at lists.ibiblio.org > Northamerican Allied Fruit Experimenters > subscribe/unsubscribe|user config|list info: > http://lists.ibiblio.org/mailman/listinfo/nafex > > ------------------------------ > > End of nafex Digest, Vol 156, Issue 3 > ************************************* > From fuwafuwausagi at muchomail.com Thu Oct 8 20:40:45 2015 From: fuwafuwausagi at muchomail.com (fuwa fuwa usagi) Date: Thu, 8 Oct 2015 17:40:45 -0700 Subject: [nafex] fluffy in Charlotte, NC. Message-ID: <20151008174045.24990F16@m0087793.ppops.net> The fluffy one is going to be in Charlotte/Moorseville NC arriving Sunday noonish and departing Wed at 1:00pm in the event anyone needs me to sample some apples or something. tfb _____________________________________________________________ The Free Email with so much more! =====> http://www.MuchoMail.com <===== From growyourown at earthlink.net Thu Oct 8 21:09:48 2015 From: growyourown at earthlink.net (mark wessel) Date: Thu, 8 Oct 2015 21:09:48 -0400 Subject: [nafex] geneva long persimmon Message-ID: Does anyone know the true parentage of "Geneva Long?. I have read what is easily googled. Some say virginiana x kaki. Mark Southern Ohio From lpittman at murraystate.edu Fri Oct 9 08:31:16 2015 From: lpittman at murraystate.edu (Louis Pittman) Date: Fri, 9 Oct 2015 07:31:16 -0500 Subject: [nafex] geneva long persimmon In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Supposedly selected - maybe bred by - Dr. George Slate in NY. I see repeated allegations that it may be a hybrid... but there's nothing about the tree or fruit that would make me think that it is anything other than D.virginiana. On Thu, Oct 8, 2015 at 8:09 PM, mark wessel wrote: > Does anyone know the true parentage of "Geneva Long?. I have read what is > easily googled. Some say virginiana x kaki. > > Mark > Southern Ohio > __________________ > nafex mailing list > nafex at lists.ibiblio.org > Northamerican Allied Fruit Experimenters > subscribe/unsubscribe|user config|list info: > http://lists.ibiblio.org/mailman/listinfo/nafex From jwlehmantree at gmail.com Fri Oct 9 08:50:40 2015 From: jwlehmantree at gmail.com (Jerry Lehman) Date: Fri, 9 Oct 2015 08:50:40 -0400 Subject: [nafex] geneva long persimmon In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <5617B820.7050607@gmail.com> On 10/8/2015 9:09 PM, mark wessel wrote: > Does anyone know the true parentage of "Geneva Long?. I have read what is easily googled. Some say virginiana x kaki. Hello Mark, I have Geneva Long here as well as Geneva red. It is my considered opinion that Geneva Long is not a hybrid, unless it is an offspring of Rosseyanka. That conical shape is somewhat common in kaki and is also common in virginiana. Prior to the importation of Rosseyanka in 1992 several breeders in the US attempted hybridizing the 2 species, kaki and the 90 chromosome virginiana. All attempts were unsuccessful. This included Luther Burbank which is reported in the Luther Burbank encyclopedia. In it he states all his attempts to hybridize the 2 species failed. The encyclopedia gave no details as to which varieties or how many of the 2 were used in his attempts. Rosseyanka to the best of my knowledge was the 1st interspecies hybrid and was accomplished by Dr. Pasenkov (sp?) at the Nikita Botanical Gardens in Crimea using embryo rescue and was the only one that survived out of 22 rescue attempts, it was originally named Rosseyanka 18. But since that time the blockage that prevented previous attempts is broken down and all of her offspring can be back bred relatively easily to both species. This along with closely looking at the leaves leads me to strongly believe Geneva Long is not a hybrid, rather pure virginiana. The same holds true for Prok which some believe is a interspecies hybrid. Jerry Lehman From dvidedevo at yahoo.com Fri Oct 9 09:53:19 2015 From: dvidedevo at yahoo.com (Devin Smith) Date: Fri, 9 Oct 2015 06:53:19 -0700 Subject: [nafex] Geneva long persimmon In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <1444398799.69050.YahooMailIosMobile@web160602.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jwlehmantree at gmail.com Fri Oct 9 10:28:59 2015 From: jwlehmantree at gmail.com (Jerry Lehman) Date: Fri, 9 Oct 2015 10:28:59 -0400 Subject: [nafex] Geneva long persimmon In-Reply-To: <1444398799.69050.YahooMailIosMobile@web160602.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> References: <1444398799.69050.YahooMailIosMobile@web160602.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <5617CF2B.8030701@gmail.com> On 10/9/2015 9:53 AM, Devin Smith via nafex wrote: > Jerry, your statement regarding the "blockage" having been "broken > down" piqued my interest. Would you say more about that means? Are you > just saying that Rosseyanka and Nikita's Gift are easily backcrossed > even though the initial cross that produced them required some tricky > business? Hello Devon, Yes, that is what I'm saying. This term a blockage that prevented enter species hybridization of kaki and virginiana was picked up from James Claypool. Mr. Claypool was a student and persimmon cooperator of JC McDaniel from the University of Illinois. He also was personally acquainted with Prof. Meader, all of whom attempted or were working with people attempting to hybridize the 2 species. In my files I have letters and articles written by some of these individuals and not one of them claims to have achieved a interspecies hybrid. I just briefly went through them nor did I found no reference to Geneva Long. But yes, open pollinated seeds from my trees of Rosseyanka (Russian Beauty TM) and the Nikitskaya Bordovaya (Nikita's Gft TM), trademarks of one Green world nursery germinate very readily from open pollination in my orchard. And they are not apomictic as all of the seedlings vary greatly in leaf and fruit characteristics. I have one that was initially grown in a pot by David Pierce and is now my 400-7 that produces very small fruit and the bricks exceed 32. It produces 1 to 2 seed per fruit. The last 2 winters our temperatures reached -15 Fahrenheit and there is no winter damage. I have sent cuttings of this cultivar back to Ukraine for back breeding to their best kaki males. That is a long answer with unneeded information! But the point is yes, there progeny produce viable seeds. Jerry Lehman From sam.brungardt at state.mn.us Fri Oct 9 16:04:47 2015 From: sam.brungardt at state.mn.us (Brungardt, Sam (MPCA)) Date: Fri, 9 Oct 2015 20:04:47 +0000 Subject: [nafex] Jujube fresh eating, preservation and marketing In-Reply-To: <5615D0E6.2050608@mebtel.net> References: <5615D0E6.2050608@mebtel.net> Message-ID: <1268E36B214F7D4F968B0285BF5CF3E4057BBDA8@055-CH1MPN1-031.055d.mgd.msft.net> A couple of years ago one of the Asian supermarkets here in St. Paul was selling jujubes at a bargain price. I bought quite a few of the fully brown (yet plump and sound) ones and canned them in heavy syrup. In each pint jar, I put 1 whole clove, 3 whole allspice, and a single layer of stick cinnamon about 3/4 inch long. The resulting product was very good, probably too sweet to eat like peaches from the jar, but wonderful for garnishing a square of gingerbread or a slice of spice, pumpkin or apple cake; baked ham; roast pork, duck, or goose; or a dish vanilla or butter brickle ice cream; or vanilla or butterscotch pudding. -- Sam Brungardt, St. Paul, Minn. USDA hardiness zone 4a. -----Original Message----- From: nafex [mailto:nafex-bounces at lists.ibiblio.org] On Behalf Of Elizabeth Hilborn Sent: Wednesday, October 07, 2015 9:12 PM To: mailing list at ibiblio - Northamerican Allied Fruit Experimenters Subject: Re: [nafex] Jujube fresh eating, preservation and marketing I do not enough fruit to market. The dried fruit tastes remarkably like dates (to my palate), but the fresh fruit is interesting. When some green is present, I taste a mild, sweet almost apple flavor. When mahogany brown, but while still plump, caramel notes with intense sweetness are present. The flavor varies by year somewhat, and although the fruit is billed as drought resistant, the texture is less crisp and juicy if the trees do not get enough water. My favorite uses for the fruit include fresh eating, and especially, stewing- no sugar needed to my taste. The fruit gets a delicate flavor with a pale pink juice and a light floral aroma. Richard, do you dry them whole? I process mine to remove the seeds and end up with small jujube chips, pretty labor intensive. Betsy Hilborn 7a NC On 10/7/2015 8:18 PM, Richard Moyer wrote: > We dry ours and they last forever. While living and shopping in > Seoul, Korea, we never saw them fresh, but always dried. Some market > stands had ONLY jujubes, of various sizes and shapes, priced > accordingly. Hundreds of lbs, all dried. > > I understand the Vietnamese and Indians prefer them in the crispy, > less ripe stage, as referred to in this articles. Indians staying > with us have picked out the less ripe ones, not eating the riper (shriveled ones). > > Long story short, we sell most of ours dried. They keep forever that > way, so we're not scrambling for buyers. > > Richard Moyer > SW VA, where all our jujubes survived -15F last winter. > > On Wed, Oct 7, 2015 at 5:39 PM, wrote: > >> Send nafex mailing list submissions to >> nafex at lists.ibiblio.org >> >> To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit >> http://lists.ibiblio.org/mailman/listinfo/nafex >> or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to >> nafex-request at lists.ibiblio.org >> >> You can reach the person managing the list at >> nafex-owner at lists.ibiblio.org >> >> When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific >> than "Re: Contents of nafex digest..." >> >> >> Today's Topics: >> >> 1. Jujube: Texas producers learn to grow, how to eat >> little-known fruit (Brungardt, Sam (MPCA)) >> >> >> --------------------------------------------------------------------- >> - >> >> Message: 1 >> Date: Wed, 7 Oct 2015 21:38:23 +0000 >> From: "Brungardt, Sam (MPCA)" >> To: mailing list at ibiblio - Northamerican Allied Fruit Experimenters >> >> Subject: [nafex] Jujube: Texas producers learn to grow, how to eat >> little-known fruit >> Message-ID: >> < >> 1268E36B214F7D4F968B0285BF5CF3E4057BB68E at 055-CH1MPN1-031.055d.mgd.msf >> t.net >> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" >> >> Jujube: Texas producers learn to grow, how to eat little-known fruit >> < >> https://www.google.com/url?rct=j&sa=t&url=http://today.agrilife.org/2 >> 015/10/06/jujube-texas-producers-learn-to-grow-how-to-eat-little-know >> n-fruit/&ct=ga&cd=CAEYBioTMzA4OTY5OTU5MjkyNjc5NzE3MDIaZGZlMDEyNzc3YmU >> 4NDVhNjpjb206ZW46VVM&usg=AFQjCNE9aq2mUr1k9MJyUUz4_k5SIgGmwg >> AgriLife Today >> COLLEGE STATION - Several hands raised when asked at the annual Texas >> Fruit Conference who had acreage of jujube. "What were you thinking? >> >> Story URL: >> http://today.agrilife.org/2015/10/06/jujube-texas-producers-learn-to- >> grow-how-to-eat-little-known-fruit/ >> >> >> __________________ nafex mailing list nafex at lists.ibiblio.org Northamerican Allied Fruit Experimenters subscribe/unsubscribe|user config|list info: http://lists.ibiblio.org/mailman/listinfo/nafex From sam.brungardt at state.mn.us Mon Oct 12 10:50:08 2015 From: sam.brungardt at state.mn.us (Brungardt, Sam (MPCA)) Date: Mon, 12 Oct 2015 14:50:08 +0000 Subject: [nafex] =?windows-1252?q?Time_to_Pursue_the_Pawpaw=2C_America=92s?= =?windows-1252?q?_Fleeting_Fall_Fruit_=28National_Public_Radio=29?= Message-ID: <1268E36B214F7D4F968B0285BF5CF3E4057BBFE3@055-CH1MPN1-031.055d.mgd.msft.net> Time to Pursue the Pawpaw, America?s Fleeting Fall Fruit (National Public Radio) http://www.npr.org/sections/thesalt/2015/10/10/447244976/time-to-pursue-the-pawpaw-americas-fleeting-fall-fruit (article mentions an Ohio grower who has a pawpaw planting.) From ramoyer at gmail.com Mon Oct 12 10:55:52 2015 From: ramoyer at gmail.com (Richard Moyer) Date: Mon, 12 Oct 2015 10:55:52 -0400 Subject: [nafex] Time to pursue Pawpaw? Message-ID: All our pawpaws have been gone several weeks. Only know of one population with fruit in midOct, here in NE TN/SW VA, 2000 ft elevation. Any of you still harvesting pawpaw fruit? If so, when is your peak time? Eating acorns here, in the form of bear meat. Richard Moyer, SW VA On Mon, Oct 12, 2015 at 10:50 AM, wrote: > Send nafex mailing list submissions to > nafex at lists.ibiblio.org > > To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit > http://lists.ibiblio.org/mailman/listinfo/nafex > or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to > nafex-request at lists.ibiblio.org > > You can reach the person managing the list at > nafex-owner at lists.ibiblio.org > > When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific > than "Re: Contents of nafex digest..." > > > Today's Topics: > > 1. Time to Pursue the Pawpaw, America?s Fleeting Fall Fruit > (National Public Radio) (Brungardt, Sam (MPCA)) > > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > > Message: 1 > Date: Mon, 12 Oct 2015 14:50:08 +0000 > From: "Brungardt, Sam (MPCA)" > To: mailing list at ibiblio - Northamerican Allied Fruit Experimenters > > Subject: [nafex] Time to Pursue the Pawpaw, America?s Fleeting Fall > Fruit (National Public Radio) > Message-ID: > < > 1268E36B214F7D4F968B0285BF5CF3E4057BBFE3 at 055-CH1MPN1-031.055d.mgd.msft.net > > > > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="Windows-1252" > > Time to Pursue the Pawpaw, America?s Fleeting Fall Fruit (National Public > Radio) > > > http://www.npr.org/sections/thesalt/2015/10/10/447244976/time-to-pursue-the-pawpaw-americas-fleeting-fall-fruit > > (article mentions an Ohio grower who has a pawpaw planting.) > > > ------------------------------ > > Subject: Digest Footer > > __________________ > nafex mailing list > nafex at lists.ibiblio.org > Northamerican Allied Fruit Experimenters > subscribe/unsubscribe|user config|list info: > http://lists.ibiblio.org/mailman/listinfo/nafex > > ------------------------------ > > End of nafex Digest, Vol 157, Issue 1 > ************************************* > From nottke1 at earthlink.net Mon Oct 12 11:06:42 2015 From: nottke1 at earthlink.net (nottke1) Date: Mon, 12 Oct 2015 11:06:42 -0400 (GMT-04:00) Subject: [nafex] Time to pursue Pawpaw? Message-ID: <25522238.1444662403148.JavaMail.root@wamui-june.atl.sa.earthlink.net> Picked my last pawpaw one week ago. Winston-Salem, NC, area -----Original Message----- >From: Richard Moyer >Sent: Oct 12, 2015 10:55 AM >To: nafex >Subject: [nafex] Time to pursue Pawpaw? > >All our pawpaws have been gone several weeks. Only know of one population >with fruit in midOct, here in NE TN/SW VA, 2000 ft elevation. > >Any of you still harvesting pawpaw fruit? If so, when is your peak time? > >Eating acorns here, in the form of bear meat. >Richard Moyer, SW VA > >On Mon, Oct 12, 2015 at 10:50 AM, wrote: > >> Send nafex mailing list submissions to >> nafex at lists.ibiblio.org >> >> To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit >> http://lists.ibiblio.org/mailman/listinfo/nafex >> or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to >> nafex-request at lists.ibiblio.org >> >> You can reach the person managing the list at >> nafex-owner at lists.ibiblio.org >> >> When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific >> than "Re: Contents of nafex digest..." >> >> >> Today's Topics: >> >> 1. Time to Pursue the Pawpaw, America?s Fleeting Fall Fruit >> (National Public Radio) (Brungardt, Sam (MPCA)) >> >> >> ---------------------------------------------------------------------- >> >> Message: 1 >> Date: Mon, 12 Oct 2015 14:50:08 +0000 >> From: "Brungardt, Sam (MPCA)" >> To: mailing list at ibiblio - Northamerican Allied Fruit Experimenters >> >> Subject: [nafex] Time to Pursue the Pawpaw, America?s Fleeting Fall >> Fruit (National Public Radio) >> Message-ID: >> < >> 1268E36B214F7D4F968B0285BF5CF3E4057BBFE3 at 055-CH1MPN1-031.055d.mgd.msft.net >> > >> >> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="Windows-1252" >> >> Time to Pursue the Pawpaw, America?s Fleeting Fall Fruit (National Public >> Radio) >> >> >> http://www.npr.org/sections/thesalt/2015/10/10/447244976/time-to-pursue-the-pawpaw-americas-fleeting-fall-fruit >> >> (article mentions an Ohio grower who has a pawpaw planting.) >> >> >> ------------------------------ >> >> Subject: Digest Footer >> >> __________________ >> nafex mailing list >> nafex at lists.ibiblio.org >> Northamerican Allied Fruit Experimenters >> subscribe/unsubscribe|user config|list info: >> http://lists.ibiblio.org/mailman/listinfo/nafex >> >> ------------------------------ >> >> End of nafex Digest, Vol 157, Issue 1 >> ************************************* >> >__________________ >nafex mailing list >nafex at lists.ibiblio.org >Northamerican Allied Fruit Experimenters >subscribe/unsubscribe|user config|list info: >http://lists.ibiblio.org/mailman/listinfo/nafex From jwlehmantree at gmail.com Mon Oct 12 11:45:31 2015 From: jwlehmantree at gmail.com (Jerry Lehman) Date: Mon, 12 Oct 2015 11:45:31 -0400 Subject: [nafex] Time to pursue Pawpaw? In-Reply-To: <25522238.1444662403148.JavaMail.root@wamui-june.atl.sa.earthlink.net> References: <25522238.1444662403148.JavaMail.root@wamui-june.atl.sa.earthlink.net> Message-ID: <561BD59B.8000409@gmail.com> On 10/12/2015 11:06 AM, nottke1 wrote: > Picked my last pawpaw one week ago. > > Winston-Salem, NC, area Same here in Terre Haute Indiana. Jerry From volkenin at mail.lib.msu.edu Mon Oct 12 13:51:23 2015 From: volkenin at mail.lib.msu.edu (Volkening, Tom) Date: Mon, 12 Oct 2015 17:51:23 +0000 Subject: [nafex] Time to pursue Pawpaw? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <7B619ECA43B4494CB072030B5DBEC2C8A54CF99B@mailbox1.lib.msu.edu> I have two pawpaw trees and I am just starting to get a few ripe pawpaws from one tree and none yet from the other one. I am in Zone 5 near Lansing, MI. We might get our first frost Saturday night but today it about 70 degrees. Tom Volkening -----Original Message----- From: nafex [mailto:nafex-bounces at lists.ibiblio.org] On Behalf Of Richard Moyer Sent: Monday, October 12, 2015 10:56 AM To: nafex Subject: [nafex] Time to pursue Pawpaw? All our pawpaws have been gone several weeks. Only know of one population with fruit in midOct, here in NE TN/SW VA, 2000 ft elevation. Any of you still harvesting pawpaw fruit? If so, when is your peak time? Eating acorns here, in the form of bear meat. Richard Moyer, SW VA On Mon, Oct 12, 2015 at 10:50 AM, wrote: > Send nafex mailing list submissions to > nafex at lists.ibiblio.org > > To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit > http://lists.ibiblio.org/mailman/listinfo/nafex > or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to > nafex-request at lists.ibiblio.org > > You can reach the person managing the list at > nafex-owner at lists.ibiblio.org > > When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific > than "Re: Contents of nafex digest..." > > > Today's Topics: > > 1. Time to Pursue the Pawpaw, America?s Fleeting Fall Fruit > (National Public Radio) (Brungardt, Sam (MPCA)) > > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > > Message: 1 > Date: Mon, 12 Oct 2015 14:50:08 +0000 > From: "Brungardt, Sam (MPCA)" > To: mailing list at ibiblio - Northamerican Allied Fruit Experimenters > > Subject: [nafex] Time to Pursue the Pawpaw, America?s Fleeting Fall > Fruit (National Public Radio) > Message-ID: > < > 1268E36B214F7D4F968B0285BF5CF3E4057BBFE3 at 055-CH1MPN1-031.055d.mgd.msft > .net > > > > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="Windows-1252" > > Time to Pursue the Pawpaw, America?s Fleeting Fall Fruit (National > Public > Radio) > > > http://www.npr.org/sections/thesalt/2015/10/10/447244976/time-to-pursu > e-the-pawpaw-americas-fleeting-fall-fruit > > (article mentions an Ohio grower who has a pawpaw planting.) > > > ------------------------------ > > Subject: Digest Footer > > __________________ > nafex mailing list > nafex at lists.ibiblio.org > Northamerican Allied Fruit Experimenters subscribe/unsubscribe|user > config|list info: > http://lists.ibiblio.org/mailman/listinfo/nafex > > ------------------------------ > > End of nafex Digest, Vol 157, Issue 1 > ************************************* > __________________ nafex mailing list nafex at lists.ibiblio.org Northamerican Allied Fruit Experimenters subscribe/unsubscribe|user config|list info: http://lists.ibiblio.org/mailman/listinfo/nafex From rosholdt at erols.com Mon Oct 12 19:58:33 2015 From: rosholdt at erols.com (Rosholdt) Date: Mon, 12 Oct 2015 19:58:33 -0400 Subject: [nafex] Time to pursue Pawpaw? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <561C4929.1090400@erols.com> On 10/12/2015 1:56 PM, nafex-request at lists.ibiblio.org wrote: Subject: Re: [nafex] Time to pursue Pawpaw? From: Jerry Lehman Date: 10/12/2015 11:45 AM To: nottke1 , mailing list at ibiblio - Northamerican Allied Fruit Experimenters On 10/12/2015 11:06 AM, nottke1 wrote: > Picked my last pawpaw one week ago. > > Winston-Salem, NC, area Same here in Terre Haute Indiana. Jerry Re: [nafex] Time to pursue Pawpaw?.eml Subject: Re: [nafex] Time to pursue Pawpaw? From: "Volkening, Tom" Date: 10/12/2015 1:51 PM To: 'mailing list at ibiblio - Northamerican Allied Fruit Experimenters' I have two pawpaw trees and I am just starting to get a few ripe pawpaws from one tree and none yet from the other one. I am in Zone 5 near Lansing, MI. We might get our first frost Saturday night but today it about 70 degrees. Tom Volkening -----Original Message----- From: nafex [mailto:nafex-bounces at lists.ibiblio.org] On Behalf Of Richard Moyer Sent: Monday, October 12, 2015 10:56 AM To: nafex Subject: [nafex] Time to pursue Pawpaw? All our pawpaws have been gone several weeks. Only know of one population with fruit in midOct, here in NE TN/SW VA, 2000 ft elevation. Any of you still harvesting pawpaw fruit? If so, when is your peak time? Eating acorns here, in the form of bear meat. Richard Moyer, SW VA Today's Topics: 1. Time to Pursue the Pawpaw, America?s Fleeting Fall Fruit (National Public Radio) (Brungardt, Sam (MPCA)) ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Message: 1 Date: Mon, 12 Oct 2015 14:50:08 +0000 From: "Brungardt, Sam (MPCA)" To: mailing list at ibiblio - Northamerican Allied Fruit Experimenters Subject: [nafex] Time to Pursue the Pawpaw, America?s Fleeting Fall Fruit (National Public Radio) Message-ID: < 1268E36B214F7D4F968B0285BF5CF3E4057BBFE3 at 055-CH1MPN1-031.055d.mgd.msft .net Content-Type: text/plain; charset="Windows-1252" Time to Pursue the Pawpaw, America?s Fleeting Fall Fruit (National Public Radio) http://www.npr.org/sections/thesalt/2015/10/10/447244976/time-to-pursu e-the-pawpaw-americas-fleeting-fall-fruit (article mentions an Ohio grower who has a pawpaw planting.) From rosholdt at erols.com Tue Oct 13 09:41:19 2015 From: rosholdt at erols.com (Rosholdt) Date: Tue, 13 Oct 2015 09:41:19 -0400 Subject: [nafex] Fwd: nafex Digest, Vol 157, Issue 4 In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <561D09FF.8090205@erols.com> I meant to write: We (here in Central Piedmont Virginia) were late this year with the NA pawpaws. I didn't start picking until September and the last two hangers-on were picked at the end of September. Barbara R. Z7 -------------- next part -------------- Today's Topics: 1. Time to pursue Pawpaw? (Rosholdt) -------------- next part -------------- An embedded message was scrubbed... From: Rosholdt Subject: [nafex] Time to pursue Pawpaw? Date: Mon, 12 Oct 2015 19:58:33 -0400 Size: 2929 URL: -------------- next part -------------- __________________ nafex mailing list nafex at lists.ibiblio.org Northamerican Allied Fruit Experimenters subscribe/unsubscribe|user config|list info: http://lists.ibiblio.org/mailman/listinfo/nafex From jimfruth at charter.net Tue Oct 13 22:47:00 2015 From: jimfruth at charter.net (Jim Fruth) Date: Tue, 13 Oct 2015 21:47:00 -0500 Subject: [nafex] Fwd: nafex Digest, Vol 157, Issue 4 In-Reply-To: <561D09FF.8090205@erols.com> References: <561D09FF.8090205@erols.com> Message-ID: <5CBB81ACDE8B4CD98DF29C840B722EE0@OwnerPC> Thanks for writing however I found an Illinois supplier. -----Original Message----- From: Rosholdt Sent: Tuesday, October 13, 2015 8:41 AM To: nafex Subject: [nafex] Fwd: nafex Digest, Vol 157, Issue 4 I meant to write: We (here in Central Piedmont Virginia) were late this year with the NA pawpaws. I didn't start picking until September and the last two hangers-on were picked at the end of September. Barbara R. Z7 __________________ nafex mailing list nafex at lists.ibiblio.org Northamerican Allied Fruit Experimenters subscribe/unsubscribe|user config|list info: http://lists.ibiblio.org/mailman/listinfo/nafex From growyourown at earthlink.net Wed Oct 14 06:30:12 2015 From: growyourown at earthlink.net (mark wessel) Date: Wed, 14 Oct 2015 06:30:12 -0400 Subject: [nafex] geneva long persimmon In-Reply-To: <5617B820.7050607@gmail.com> References: <5617B820.7050607@gmail.com> Message-ID: <86D702A0-48C3-4E4D-A4A3-DAD4F3EA2E8E@earthlink.net> Thanks for all your replies. It was much more than I expected. GL is one of my favorites of the dozen or so we have planted. There is a slight gelatinous texture that is appealing when compared to many of the softer or near pastie varieties. It lacks the vibrant orange color of some but is very fine tasting and sweet. > On Oct 9, 2015, at 8:50 AM, Jerry Lehman wrote: > > On 10/8/2015 9:09 PM, mark wessel wrote: >> Does anyone know the true parentage of "Geneva Long?. I have read what is easily googled. Some say virginiana x kaki. > Hello Mark, > > I have Geneva Long here as well as Geneva red. It is my considered opinion that Geneva Long is not a hybrid, unless it is an offspring of Rosseyanka. That conical shape is somewhat common in kaki and is also common in virginiana. > > Prior to the importation of Rosseyanka in 1992 several breeders in the US attempted hybridizing the 2 species, kaki and the 90 chromosome virginiana. All attempts were unsuccessful. This included Luther Burbank which is reported in the Luther Burbank encyclopedia. In it he states all his attempts to hybridize the 2 species failed. The encyclopedia gave no details as to which varieties or how many of the 2 were used in his attempts. Rosseyanka to the best of my knowledge was the 1st interspecies hybrid and was accomplished by Dr. Pasenkov (sp?) at the Nikita Botanical Gardens in Crimea using embryo rescue and was the only one that survived out of 22 rescue attempts, it was originally named Rosseyanka 18. But since that time the blockage that prevented previous attempts is broken down and all of her offspring can be back bred relatively easily to both species. This along with closely looking at the leaves leads me to strongly believe Geneva Long is not a hybrid, rather pure virginiana. The same holds true for Prok which some believe is a interspecies hybrid. > > Jerry Lehman > __________________ > nafex mailing list > nafex at lists.ibiblio.org > Northamerican Allied Fruit Experimenters > subscribe/unsubscribe|user config|list info: > http://lists.ibiblio.org/mailman/listinfo/nafex From growyourown at earthlink.net Wed Oct 14 06:34:31 2015 From: growyourown at earthlink.net (mark wessel) Date: Wed, 14 Oct 2015 06:34:31 -0400 Subject: [nafex] Diospyros rhombifolia Message-ID: <87DFB5DE-8EC9-4D41-A0F4-90FE3DB65593@earthlink.net> Greetings Does anyone have any experience with D. rhombifolia. A friend from Longwood Gardens posted a picture of one last week. The fruit is very similar in shape to the Geneva long. If so, please comment on taste and hardiness. Mark Southern Ohio From jwlehmantree at gmail.com Wed Oct 14 07:37:05 2015 From: jwlehmantree at gmail.com (Jerry Lehman) Date: Wed, 14 Oct 2015 07:37:05 -0400 Subject: [nafex] geneva long persimmon In-Reply-To: <86D702A0-48C3-4E4D-A4A3-DAD4F3EA2E8E@earthlink.net> References: <5617B820.7050607@gmail.com> <86D702A0-48C3-4E4D-A4A3-DAD4F3EA2E8E@earthlink.net> Message-ID: <561E3E61.5020600@gmail.com> On 10/14/2015 6:30 AM, mark wessel wrote: > Thanks for all your replies. It was much more than I expected. > GL is one of my favorites of the dozen or so we have planted. There is a slight gelatinous texture that is appealing when compared to many of the softer or near pastie varieties. It lacks the vibrant orange color of some but is very fine tasting and sweet. What varieties do you have? From jwlehmantree at gmail.com Wed Oct 14 08:05:14 2015 From: jwlehmantree at gmail.com (Jerry Lehman) Date: Wed, 14 Oct 2015 08:05:14 -0400 Subject: [nafex] Diospyros rhombifolia In-Reply-To: <87DFB5DE-8EC9-4D41-A0F4-90FE3DB65593@earthlink.net> References: <87DFB5DE-8EC9-4D41-A0F4-90FE3DB65593@earthlink.net> Message-ID: <561E44FA.1020802@gmail.com> On 10/14/2015 6:34 AM, mark wessel wrote: > Does anyone have any experience with D. rhombifolia. A friend from Longwood Gardens posted a picture of one last week. The fruit is very similar in shape to the Geneva long. If so, please comment on taste and hardiness. Mark, Yes I have one in a bucket and I've had it for several years. It is an attractive fruit but the taste is absolutely horrible. It tastes like it is pure poison. I'm including a picture of a fruit cut in half. This is a rather large file, please let me know if you received it okay as ibiblio doesn't send a copy to the sender. Jerry From jwlehmantree at gmail.com Wed Oct 14 08:19:53 2015 From: jwlehmantree at gmail.com (Jerry Lehman) Date: Wed, 14 Oct 2015 08:19:53 -0400 Subject: [nafex] Diospyros rhombifolia In-Reply-To: <87DFB5DE-8EC9-4D41-A0F4-90FE3DB65593@earthlink.net> References: <87DFB5DE-8EC9-4D41-A0F4-90FE3DB65593@earthlink.net> Message-ID: <561E4869.7050708@gmail.com> On 10/14/2015 6:34 AM, mark wessel wrote: > Does anyone have any experience with D. rhombifolia. A friend from Longwood Gardens posted a picture of one last week. The fruit is very similar in shape to the Geneva long. If so, please comment on taste and hardiness. > > Mark > Southern Ohio Mark, Mine is in a bucket and I bring it in every winter. I believe it is a native to New Caledonia which is I believe is in the subtropics and if correct would not survive outdoors in Ohio. It is 30 chromosome. Mine is pistillate and without a pollinator produces attractive inedible seedless fruit. Jerry From qazingulaza at gmail.com Wed Oct 14 09:58:37 2015 From: qazingulaza at gmail.com (mIEKAL aND) Date: Wed, 14 Oct 2015 08:58:37 -0500 Subject: [nafex] Time to pursue Pawpaw? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Ha, mine are still hanging in the trees hard as rocks, tho I took a test one down the other day and it ripened in about a week. My question is, can they handle a hard freeze or should I pick them before the high 20s forecast for this weekend? ~miEKAL Z4B/ SW WI On Mon, Oct 12, 2015 at 9:55 AM, Richard Moyer wrote: > All our pawpaws have been gone several weeks. Only know of one population > with fruit in midOct, here in NE TN/SW VA, 2000 ft elevation. > > Any of you still harvesting pawpaw fruit? If so, when is your peak time? > > Eating acorns here, in the form of bear meat. > Richard Moyer, SW VA > > On Mon, Oct 12, 2015 at 10:50 AM, wrote: > >> Send nafex mailing list submissions to >> nafex at lists.ibiblio.org >> >> To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit >> http://lists.ibiblio.org/mailman/listinfo/nafex >> or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to >> nafex-request at lists.ibiblio.org >> >> You can reach the person managing the list at >> nafex-owner at lists.ibiblio.org >> >> When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific >> than "Re: Contents of nafex digest..." >> >> >> Today's Topics: >> >> 1. Time to Pursue the Pawpaw, America?s Fleeting Fall Fruit >> (National Public Radio) (Brungardt, Sam (MPCA)) >> >> >> ---------------------------------------------------------------------- >> >> Message: 1 >> Date: Mon, 12 Oct 2015 14:50:08 +0000 >> From: "Brungardt, Sam (MPCA)" >> To: mailing list at ibiblio - Northamerican Allied Fruit Experimenters >> >> Subject: [nafex] Time to Pursue the Pawpaw, America?s Fleeting Fall >> Fruit (National Public Radio) >> Message-ID: >> < >> 1268E36B214F7D4F968B0285BF5CF3E4057BBFE3 at 055-CH1MPN1-031.055d.mgd.msft.net >> > >> >> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="Windows-1252" >> >> Time to Pursue the Pawpaw, America?s Fleeting Fall Fruit (National Public >> Radio) >> >> >> http://www.npr.org/sections/thesalt/2015/10/10/447244976/time-to-pursue-the-pawpaw-americas-fleeting-fall-fruit >> >> (article mentions an Ohio grower who has a pawpaw planting.) >> >> >> ------------------------------ >> >> Subject: Digest Footer >> >> __________________ >> nafex mailing list >> nafex at lists.ibiblio.org >> Northamerican Allied Fruit Experimenters >> subscribe/unsubscribe|user config|list info: >> http://lists.ibiblio.org/mailman/listinfo/nafex >> >> ------------------------------ >> >> End of nafex Digest, Vol 157, Issue 1 >> ************************************* >> > __________________ > nafex mailing list > nafex at lists.ibiblio.org > Northamerican Allied Fruit Experimenters > subscribe/unsubscribe|user config|list info: > http://lists.ibiblio.org/mailman/listinfo/nafex From jimfruth at charter.net Wed Oct 14 23:29:50 2015 From: jimfruth at charter.net (Jim Fruth) Date: Wed, 14 Oct 2015 22:29:50 -0500 Subject: [nafex] Shipping persimmons In-Reply-To: <561E3E61.5020600@gmail.com> References: <5617B820.7050607@gmail.com><86D702A0-48C3-4E4D-A4A3-DAD4F3EA2E8E@earthlink.net> <561E3E61.5020600@gmail.com> Message-ID: Cosco stores have them in stock right now and have an ingenious method of shipping them. Check it out. -----Original Message----- From: Jerry Lehman Sent: Wednesday, October 14, 2015 6:37 AM To: mailing list at ibiblio - Northamerican Allied Fruit Experimenters Subject: Re: [nafex] geneva long persimmon On 10/14/2015 6:30 AM, mark wessel wrote: > Thanks for all your replies. It was much more than I expected. > GL is one of my favorites of the dozen or so we have planted. There is a > slight gelatinous texture that is appealing when compared to many of the > softer or near pastie varieties. It lacks the vibrant orange color of some > but is very fine tasting and sweet. What varieties do you have? __________________ nafex mailing list nafex at lists.ibiblio.org Northamerican Allied Fruit Experimenters subscribe/unsubscribe|user config|list info: http://lists.ibiblio.org/mailman/listinfo/nafex From jwlehmantree at gmail.com Thu Oct 15 06:41:50 2015 From: jwlehmantree at gmail.com (Jerry Lehman) Date: Thu, 15 Oct 2015 06:41:50 -0400 Subject: [nafex] Shipping persimmons In-Reply-To: References: <5617B820.7050607@gmail.com> <86D702A0-48C3-4E4D-A4A3-DAD4F3EA2E8E@earthlink.net> <561E3E61.5020600@gmail.com> Message-ID: <561F82EE.6010306@gmail.com> On 10/14/2015 11:29 PM, Jim Fruth wrote: > Cosco stores have them in stock right now and have an ingenious method > of shipping them. Check it out. Jim, No link. Check it out where? jerry From jimfruth at charter.net Thu Oct 15 22:18:47 2015 From: jimfruth at charter.net (Jim Fruth) Date: Thu, 15 Oct 2015 21:18:47 -0500 Subject: [nafex] Shipping persimmons In-Reply-To: <561F82EE.6010306@gmail.com> References: <5617B820.7050607@gmail.com><86D702A0-48C3-4E4D-A4A3-DAD4F3EA2E8E@earthlink.net><561E3E61.5020600@gmail.com> <561F82EE.6010306@gmail.com> Message-ID: <34A48FE7637E4489A3AB15B48982613F@OwnerPC> No Costco store nearby??? Here is a substitute, loaded with ideas for you: https://www.searchlock.com/search?q=persimmon+packaging -----Original Message----- From: Jerry Lehman Sent: Thursday, October 15, 2015 5:41 AM To: mailing list at ibiblio - Northamerican Allied Fruit Experimenters Subject: Re: [nafex] Shipping persimmons On 10/14/2015 11:29 PM, Jim Fruth wrote: > Cosco stores have them in stock right now and have an ingenious method of > shipping them. Check it out. Jim, No link. Check it out where? jerry __________________ nafex mailing list nafex at lists.ibiblio.org Northamerican Allied Fruit Experimenters subscribe/unsubscribe|user config|list info: http://lists.ibiblio.org/mailman/listinfo/nafex From pxbacher at gmail.com Thu Oct 22 16:26:57 2015 From: pxbacher at gmail.com (Peter Chrisbacher) Date: Thu, 22 Oct 2015 16:26:57 -0400 Subject: [nafex] Identifying Persimmon Varieties Message-ID: Several old nearby orchards have grafted persimmon trees I'd like to *try* to identify, but it appears this will be a bit of a challenge. Unlike figs with their somewhat unique leaves, persimmon leaves all look very similar (to me). I should be able to get approximate relative ripening dates as well as fruit sizes and colors. I also know/can get some other traits like "drop when ripe" or "tend to hang on tree after ripe." The good news is I have a list of likely suspects. Orchard 1 Candidates: 1. Early Golden 2. Lambert (suppsedly larger than Early Golden with few seeds(?)) 3. Burhman (supposedly purple bloom and dark maroon fruit) - probably not a match for any of the remaining trees 4. Josephine (supposedly like Early Golden but slightly earlier) My biggest problem is that all of the above assume I have access to a known Early Golden in the same vicinity, which I don't. Orchard 2 will be more difficult as there's a longer list of candidates as well as many more trees. I'll post later if there's interest. Any thoughts on how to proceed? Is there any specific Early Golden (fall) fruit or tree trait or traits I can look for? Is anyone aware of a type reference, hopefully with color photos? Thanks! -Pete Pete Chrisbacher Wilmington, DE From jwlehmantree at gmail.com Thu Oct 22 23:00:33 2015 From: jwlehmantree at gmail.com (Jerry Lehman) Date: Thu, 22 Oct 2015 23:00:33 -0400 Subject: [nafex] Identifying Persimmon Varieties In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <5629A2D1.2090609@gmail.com> On 10/22/2015 4:26 PM, Peter Chrisbacher wrote: > Orchard 1 Candidates: > > 1. Early Golden > 2. Lambert (suppsedly larger than Early Golden with few seeds(?)) > 3. Burhman (supposedly purple bloom and dark maroon fruit) - probably > not a match for any of the remaining trees > 4. Josephine (supposedly like Early Golden but slightly earlier) Hello Pete, I have no experience with variety 2, 3 and 4 and I can't help you with those. As for ripening dates that can vary year to year as well as by location. Color can vary year to year. Making an undisputed identification is nearly impossible. Jerry From gtolle0709 at wowway.com Sat Oct 24 01:24:42 2015 From: gtolle0709 at wowway.com (Geoffrey Tolle) Date: Sat, 24 Oct 2015 01:24:42 -0400 Subject: [nafex] Redbud Seed Pods Message-ID: Folks: Since this opportunity only comes once a year, I?d like to extend an invitation for folks to try an experiment with me. The redbud seed pods are, now, available. I?ve eaten the young pods and found a few trees that produced pods that made a good pod pea substitute (many have the papery lining that make pods hard to eat but some don?t have it). Now I want to see how the dried seeds taste. I?m gathering up pods now. I hope to be able to figure out a way to husk the seeds and clean them up. Once I have, I plan to boil a batch and pressure cook a batch to see how tasty they are. Two years ago, I found honey locust seeds to be quite tasty pressure cooked and served like beans. I?d like to add another perennial legume to crops list if possible. I?d appreciate it if other folks give it a try as well so that we can compare notes. Thanks to all, Geoffrey Tolle From alex at conev.org Mon Oct 26 12:04:44 2015 From: alex at conev.org (alexis) Date: Mon, 26 Oct 2015 12:04:44 -0400 Subject: [nafex] New Pear Variety for Self Sufficiency Message-ID: <562E4F1C.5000007@conev.org> WinterSweet Pear A Valuable New Crop for Food Self-Sufficiency PLEASE FORWARD Summary: The purpose of this document is to bring to the awareness of the reader a new variety of pear tree that I believe will be useful for those seeking food self-sufficiency, or simply a much better winter storage pear. See the end of the document if you wish to acquire one or more trees. The name of this pear tree is WinterSweet. I have been growing this tree in 3 orchards in Central Virginia for 5 years. The attributes of this tree and its fruit are as follows. Vigor -- This is the fastest growing pear tree of any I have ever planted, often growing twice as fast as other pear trees, even in mediocre soil. In August when other pear trees have yellowed and are readying for dormancy, this tree is still dark green and growing. Flavor -- This is the strongest flavored pear I have ever eaten. In the early ripening stage, it has a very strong tart-sweet flavor with bitter overtones. As it ripens fully, the bitterness disappears and the tartness diminishes somewhat. The ripening pattern could be comparable to (pear-flavored) Granny Smith apples -- very tart in the early ripening stage to finish with an excellent sweet-tart flavor as it ripens fully. This is a storage pear. The flavor is MUCH better then other late storage pears like Kieffer or Burford. Sugars (Brix) -- A friend of mine has a brix tester (he's a vegetable breeder). We tested a couple of Wintersweets. The highest brix was 15.7, with an average at 15.0. That is higher than most other pears. Ripening Time -- Late, harvest season begins in early October in Central Virginia, extending for at least several weeks. Size -- Medium, about the size of a Bartlett. Disease Resistance -- Some of our test orchards suffer extreme disease and insect pressure. The fruit of this pear is little bothered by insects. The tree has suffered no blight damage whatsoever after 5 years in an orchard with extreme blight pressure where other ?blight resistant? pears have been killed or badly damaged. This does NOT constitute an conclusive blight resistance test. Texture -- In the early ripening stage, the texture is poor, fibrous, sawdusty. As the fruit ripens fully, the texture improves substantially to become a crunchy, sweet, dense pear. At full ripe, it is still the densest pear I have ever eaten. The texture of this pear probably means it has little value on the grocery store shelf (where people are used to delicate ?desert? pears imported from afar). Storage Value -- Limited experimentation leads us to believe that this pear is an excellent storage pear. It is a very dense pear, which appears to help it store a long time without refrigeration. We have not done enough storage with our various varieties to make a conclusive comparison yet. Pollination -- All of our Wintersweets are in orchards with numerous other pear trees. I have no means by which to assess if WinterSweet is self-fertile to any degree. Further Commentary The mother of this tree was growing on a farm that belongs to a friend of mine in Central VA. The mother of the WinterSweet Pear tree was a massive tree, probably 16 inches or more in diameter, perhaps 50 feet tall. It was in a cow pasture, and produced a prodigious quantity of pears that we made into the most amazing cider I have ever tasted. I was impressed by this late, dense, sweet fruit, and started grafting it. I prize late fruit highly. I love my Seckle Pear, but in August, life is just too full of good things for the self-sufficient farmer. The mother of WinterSweet blew over in a storm a few years ago. I have planted WinterSweets in 3 orchards in Central Virginia. Orchard number 1 is in Charlottesville VA and suffers from extreme fireblight pressure. If you are familiar with fireblight, you know that is a /very/fickle disease that responds with extreme variability to environmental triggers (moisture and temperature, I think). A tree that shows no signs of blight for years may be devastated by the disease when circumstances change. The performance of other pear trees in regards to fireblight in orchard number 1 are as follows: Magness -- killed to the ground. Harvest Queen -- A Bartlett derivative that is supposed to be ?much more disease resistant? than Bartlett (quoting Cummins Nursery). My Harvest Queen has produced some really delightful fruit, but it has been hammered by fireblight and appears to be in terminal decline. Kieffer -- Badly damaged by blight. (I cut it down after a few productive years because the fruit consistently tasted like damp styrofoam). Seckle -- Minor damage each year. Ayers -- I have only had this tree a few years and have seen no damage yet. Our number 2 and 3 test orchards have dozens of varieties of pears in them. The blight pressure is less extreme than the number 1 orchard (much better air movement). Some of our ?blight resistant? trees have suffered at least minor damage in these orchards as well. To date Wintersweet has experienced no blight damage in our number 2 or number 3 orchards. The reason I believe this tree is valuable from a food self-sufficiency standpoint is that the tree is so incredibly vigorous, shows no signs of disease problems, produces a prodigious quantity of very sweet fruit, produces its fruit in the fall after the peak of the annuals harvest has passed, and probably will store for a long time in a root cellar or other appropriate environment. *Winter fruit without canning is highly valuable from a food self-sufficiency standpoint. * WinterSweet appears to be a European/ Asian cross. It has a an Asian growth pattern, with branches close together in a vertical orientation. It does not spread naturally. It has thick stems and gives the appearance of an Asian pear. The flavor however is radically different than Asian pears. I have never tasted a pear with such tartness. I believe it would be helpful for the local food movement if this pear tree were widely disseminated, particularly for people aspiring to food self-sufficiency. WinterSweet is a dramatically better pear than other winter keepers like Burford or Keiffer, much sweeter and more flavorful. Wintersweet has a later ripening time than any of the other ?desert? pears, later than any pear with which I am familiar. Given its density and late ripening, it may store later into the winter than any of the other storage pears, though I cannot make that claim based on systematic comparisons with other pears. Plan to Disseminate We have a limited quantity of fruit at this time. We also have an excellent solar food drying system. I am part of an organization called Living Energy Farm that is building a farm and a community that will run without fossil fuel (see livingenergyfarm.org). I would like to propagate this tree and let the proceeds support Living Energy Farm. In the winter of 2015-2016, I will order roostock. (I teach propagation classes and get the rootstock for those classes.) I use OHxF pear rootstock. WinterSweet is the fastest growing pear of any we have planted on OHxF rootstock, which is a modern, blight-resistant rootstock. We use OHxF 333, a semi-dwarf rootstock, and OHxF 97, which produces a near full-sized tree. Our earliest WinterSweets are on 333 rootstock, and have a vertical orientation topping off at about 15 feet. I don't think they are going to get any taller. So far our WinterSweets on OHxF 97 are wider, and perhaps 20 feet tall. I don't know what the final height of a WinterSweet on OHxF 97 might be. This winter, we are going to try to send dried samples of WinterSweet to as many people as we can (at no charge). We are going to propagate trees based on the number of people who say they are interested in purchasing trees shipped to them in winter 2016-2017 (about a year from now). If you want a tree, let us know now. Asking for a tree now will NOT commit you to buying one a year from now. We will ask for payment then, and you can decline at that time if you choose. But I don't want to propagate a lot of trees unless there is sufficient interest. Final cost will depend on what we can figure our for shipping. I would estimate something in the range of $30 - $40 for one tree, and an additional $25 for each additional tree. I will probably not disseminate scion wood this year as supply is limited. Please let me know if you would like to make buy a WinterSweet next winter. Please let me know if you want a free sample (small) of the dried fruit. We will be sending these samples to a LIMITED number of people. Please send an email with WinterSweet in the subject line to tradelocally (that email symbol) yahoo.com to indicate your interests. Thanks, Alexis Zeigler From naomi at oznayim.us Mon Oct 26 15:35:52 2015 From: naomi at oznayim.us (Naomi Counides) Date: Mon, 26 Oct 2015 13:35:52 -0600 Subject: [nafex] New Pear Variety for Self Sufficiency In-Reply-To: <562E4F1C.5000007@conev.org> References: <562E4F1C.5000007@conev.org> Message-ID: <005301d11025$885b1540$99113fc0$@oznayim.us> Do you mean crunchy like a bosc pear? Sounds very interesting. How does it can? Naomi -----Original Message----- From: nafex [mailto:nafex-bounces at lists.ibiblio.org] On Behalf Of alexis Sent: Monday, October 26, 2015 10:05 AM To: nafex at lists.ibiblio.org Subject: [nafex] New Pear Variety for Self Sufficiency WinterSweet Pear A Valuable New Crop for Food Self-Sufficiency PLEASE FORWARD Summary: The purpose of this document is to bring to the awareness of the reader a new variety of pear tree that I believe will be useful for those seeking food self-sufficiency, or simply a much better winter storage pear. See the end of the document if you wish to acquire one or more trees. The name of this pear tree is WinterSweet. I have been growing this tree in 3 orchards in Central Virginia for 5 years. The attributes of this tree and its fruit are as follows. Vigor -- This is the fastest growing pear tree of any I have ever planted, often growing twice as fast as other pear trees, even in mediocre soil. In August when other pear trees have yellowed and are readying for dormancy, this tree is still dark green and growing. Flavor -- This is the strongest flavored pear I have ever eaten. In the early ripening stage, it has a very strong tart-sweet flavor with bitter overtones. As it ripens fully, the bitterness disappears and the tartness diminishes somewhat. The ripening pattern could be comparable to (pear-flavored) Granny Smith apples -- very tart in the early ripening stage to finish with an excellent sweet-tart flavor as it ripens fully. This is a storage pear. The flavor is MUCH better then other late storage pears like Kieffer or Burford. Sugars (Brix) -- A friend of mine has a brix tester (he's a vegetable breeder). We tested a couple of Wintersweets. The highest brix was 15.7, with an average at 15.0. That is higher than most other pears. Ripening Time -- Late, harvest season begins in early October in Central Virginia, extending for at least several weeks. Size -- Medium, about the size of a Bartlett. Disease Resistance -- Some of our test orchards suffer extreme disease and insect pressure. The fruit of this pear is little bothered by insects. The tree has suffered no blight damage whatsoever after 5 years in an orchard with extreme blight pressure where other blight resistant pears have been killed or badly damaged. This does NOT constitute an conclusive blight resistance test. Texture -- In the early ripening stage, the texture is poor, fibrous, sawdusty. As the fruit ripens fully, the texture improves substantially to become a crunchy, sweet, dense pear. At full ripe, it is still the densest pear I have ever eaten. The texture of this pear probably means it has little value on the grocery store shelf (where people are used to delicate desert pears imported from afar). Storage Value -- Limited experimentation leads us to believe that this pear is an excellent storage pear. It is a very dense pear, which appears to help it store a long time without refrigeration. We have not done enough storage with our various varieties to make a conclusive comparison yet. Pollination -- All of our Wintersweets are in orchards with numerous other pear trees. I have no means by which to assess if WinterSweet is self-fertile to any degree. Further Commentary The mother of this tree was growing on a farm that belongs to a friend of mine in Central VA. The mother of the WinterSweet Pear tree was a massive tree, probably 16 inches or more in diameter, perhaps 50 feet tall. It was in a cow pasture, and produced a prodigious quantity of pears that we made into the most amazing cider I have ever tasted. I was impressed by this late, dense, sweet fruit, and started grafting it. I prize late fruit highly. I love my Seckle Pear, but in August, life is just too full of good things for the self-sufficient farmer. The mother of WinterSweet blew over in a storm a few years ago. I have planted WinterSweets in 3 orchards in Central Virginia. Orchard number 1 is in Charlottesville VA and suffers from extreme fireblight pressure. If you are familiar with fireblight, you know that is a /very/fickle disease that responds with extreme variability to environmental triggers (moisture and temperature, I think). A tree that shows no signs of blight for years may be devastated by the disease when circumstances change. The performance of other pear trees in regards to fireblight in orchard number 1 are as follows: Magness -- killed to the ground. Harvest Queen -- A Bartlett derivative that is supposed to be much more disease resistant than Bartlett (quoting Cummins Nursery). My Harvest Queen has produced some really delightful fruit, but it has been hammered by fireblight and appears to be in terminal decline. Kieffer -- Badly damaged by blight. (I cut it down after a few productive years because the fruit consistently tasted like damp styrofoam). Seckle -- Minor damage each year. Ayers -- I have only had this tree a few years and have seen no damage yet. Our number 2 and 3 test orchards have dozens of varieties of pears in them. The blight pressure is less extreme than the number 1 orchard (much better air movement). Some of our blight resistant trees have suffered at least minor damage in these orchards as well. To date Wintersweet has experienced no blight damage in our number 2 or number 3 orchards. The reason I believe this tree is valuable from a food self-sufficiency standpoint is that the tree is so incredibly vigorous, shows no signs of disease problems, produces a prodigious quantity of very sweet fruit, produces its fruit in the fall after the peak of the annuals harvest has passed, and probably will store for a long time in a root cellar or other appropriate environment. *Winter fruit without canning is highly valuable from a food self-sufficiency standpoint. * WinterSweet appears to be a European/ Asian cross. It has a an Asian growth pattern, with branches close together in a vertical orientation. It does not spread naturally. It has thick stems and gives the appearance of an Asian pear. The flavor however is radically different than Asian pears. I have never tasted a pear with such tartness. I believe it would be helpful for the local food movement if this pear tree were widely disseminated, particularly for people aspiring to food self-sufficiency. WinterSweet is a dramatically better pear than other winter keepers like Burford or Keiffer, much sweeter and more flavorful. Wintersweet has a later ripening time than any of the other desert pears, later than any pear with which I am familiar. Given its density and late ripening, it may store later into the winter than any of the other storage pears, though I cannot make that claim based on systematic comparisons with other pears. Plan to Disseminate We have a limited quantity of fruit at this time. We also have an excellent solar food drying system. I am part of an organization called Living Energy Farm that is building a farm and a community that will run without fossil fuel (see livingenergyfarm.org). I would like to propagate this tree and let the proceeds support Living Energy Farm. In the winter of 2015-2016, I will order roostock. (I teach propagation classes and get the rootstock for those classes.) I use OHxF pear rootstock. WinterSweet is the fastest growing pear of any we have planted on OHxF rootstock, which is a modern, blight-resistant rootstock. We use OHxF 333, a semi-dwarf rootstock, and OHxF 97, which produces a near full-sized tree. Our earliest WinterSweets are on 333 rootstock, and have a vertical orientation topping off at about 15 feet. I don't think they are going to get any taller. So far our WinterSweets on OHxF 97 are wider, and perhaps 20 feet tall. I don't know what the final height of a WinterSweet on OHxF 97 might be. This winter, we are going to try to send dried samples of WinterSweet to as many people as we can (at no charge). We are going to propagate trees based on the number of people who say they are interested in purchasing trees shipped to them in winter 2016-2017 (about a year from now). If you want a tree, let us know now. Asking for a tree now will NOT commit you to buying one a year from now. We will ask for payment then, and you can decline at that time if you choose. But I don't want to propagate a lot of trees unless there is sufficient interest. Final cost will depend on what we can figure our for shipping. I would estimate something in the range of $30 - $40 for one tree, and an additional $25 for each additional tree. I will probably not disseminate scion wood this year as supply is limited. Please let me know if you would like to make buy a WinterSweet next winter. Please let me know if you want a free sample (small) of the dried fruit. We will be sending these samples to a LIMITED number of people. Please send an email with WinterSweet in the subject line to tradelocally (that email symbol) yahoo.com to indicate your interests. Thanks, Alexis Zeigler __________________ nafex mailing list nafex at lists.ibiblio.org Northamerican Allied Fruit Experimenters subscribe/unsubscribe|user config|list info: http://lists.ibiblio.org/mailman/listinfo/nafex From alex at conev.org Tue Oct 27 15:44:42 2015 From: alex at conev.org (alexis) Date: Tue, 27 Oct 2015 15:44:42 -0400 Subject: [nafex] Wintersweet In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <562FD42A.30401@conev.org> RE: Wintersweet Well, not sure how to describe crunchy. It has more texture than the soft pears. Generally similar to a Bosc. I have not tried canning them. My family has eaten them all so far, though I have some in storage now. I imagine they would can well, because of the firmness and the sweet/ tartness. But that is only speculation. Alexis On 10/26/2015 04:07 PM, nafex-request at lists.ibiblio.org wrote: > Send nafex mailing list submissions to > nafex at lists.ibiblio.org > > To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit > http://lists.ibiblio.org/mailman/listinfo/nafex > or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to > nafex-request at lists.ibiblio.org > > You can reach the person managing the list at > nafex-owner at lists.ibiblio.org > > When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific > than "Re: Contents of nafex digest..." > > > Today's Topics: > > 1. Re: New Pear Variety for Self Sufficiency (Naomi Counides) > > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > > Message: 1 > Date: Mon, 26 Oct 2015 13:35:52 -0600 > From: "Naomi Counides" > To: "'mailing list at ibiblio - Northamerican Allied Fruit > Experimenters'" > Subject: Re: [nafex] New Pear Variety for Self Sufficiency > Message-ID: <005301d11025$885b1540$99113fc0$@oznayim.us> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" > > Do you mean crunchy like a bosc pear? Sounds very interesting. How does it can? > Naomi > > -----Original Message----- > From: nafex [mailto:nafex-bounces at lists.ibiblio.org] On Behalf Of alexis > Sent: Monday, October 26, 2015 10:05 AM > To: nafex at lists.ibiblio.org > Subject: [nafex] New Pear Variety for Self Sufficiency > > WinterSweet Pear > A Valuable New Crop for Food Self-Sufficiency > > PLEASE FORWARD > > Summary: > > The purpose of this document is to bring to the awareness of the reader a new variety of pear tree that I believe will be useful for those seeking food self-sufficiency, or simply a much better winter storage pear. See the end of the document if you wish to acquire one or more trees. > > The name of this pear tree is WinterSweet. I have been growing this tree in 3 orchards in Central Virginia for 5 years. The attributes of this tree and its fruit are as follows. > > Vigor -- This is the fastest growing pear tree of any I have ever planted, often growing twice as fast as other pear trees, even in mediocre soil. In August when other pear trees have yellowed and are readying for dormancy, this tree is still dark green and growing. > > Flavor -- This is the strongest flavored pear I have ever eaten. In the early ripening stage, it has a very strong tart-sweet flavor with bitter overtones. As it ripens fully, the bitterness disappears and the tartness diminishes somewhat. The ripening pattern could be comparable to (pear-flavored) Granny Smith apples -- very tart in the early ripening stage to finish with an excellent sweet-tart flavor as it ripens fully. This is a storage pear. The flavor is MUCH better then other late storage pears like Kieffer or Burford. > > Sugars (Brix) -- A friend of mine has a brix tester (he's a vegetable breeder). We tested a couple of Wintersweets. The highest brix was 15.7, with an average at 15.0. That is higher than most other pears. > > Ripening Time -- Late, harvest season begins in early October in Central Virginia, extending for at least several weeks. > > Size -- Medium, about the size of a Bartlett. > > Disease Resistance -- Some of our test orchards suffer extreme disease and insect pressure. The fruit of this pear is little bothered by insects. The tree has suffered no blight damage whatsoever after 5 years in an orchard with extreme blight pressure where other blight resistant pears have been killed or badly damaged. This does NOT constitute an conclusive blight resistance test. > > Texture -- In the early ripening stage, the texture is poor, fibrous, sawdusty. As the fruit ripens fully, the texture improves substantially to become a crunchy, sweet, dense pear. At full ripe, it is still the densest pear I have ever eaten. The texture of this pear probably means it has little value on the grocery store shelf (where people are used to delicate desert pears imported from afar). > > Storage Value -- Limited experimentation leads us to believe that this pear is an excellent storage pear. It is a very dense pear, which appears to help it store a long time without refrigeration. We have not done enough storage with our various varieties to make a conclusive comparison yet. > > Pollination -- All of our Wintersweets are in orchards with numerous other pear trees. I have no means by which to assess if WinterSweet is self-fertile to any degree. > > Further Commentary > > The mother of this tree was growing on a farm that belongs to a friend of mine in Central VA. The mother of the WinterSweet Pear tree was a massive tree, probably 16 inches or more in diameter, perhaps 50 feet tall. It was in a cow pasture, and produced a prodigious quantity of pears that we made into the most amazing cider I have ever tasted. I was impressed by this late, dense, sweet fruit, and started grafting it. I prize late fruit highly. I love my Seckle Pear, but in August, life is just too full of good things for the self-sufficient farmer. The mother of WinterSweet blew over in a storm a few years ago. > > I have planted WinterSweets in 3 orchards in Central Virginia. Orchard number 1 is in Charlottesville VA and suffers from extreme fireblight pressure. If you are familiar with fireblight, you know that is a /very/fickle disease that responds with extreme variability to environmental triggers (moisture and temperature, I think). A tree that shows no signs of blight for years may be devastated by the disease when circumstances change. The performance of other pear trees in regards to fireblight in orchard number 1 are as follows: > > Magness -- killed to the ground. > > Harvest Queen -- A Bartlett derivative that is supposed to be much more disease resistant than Bartlett (quoting Cummins Nursery). My Harvest Queen has produced some really delightful fruit, but it has been hammered by fireblight and appears to be in terminal decline. > > Kieffer -- Badly damaged by blight. (I cut it down after a few productive years because the fruit consistently tasted like damp styrofoam). > > Seckle -- Minor damage each year. > > Ayers -- I have only had this tree a few years and have seen no damage yet. > > Our number 2 and 3 test orchards have dozens of varieties of pears in them. The blight pressure is less extreme than the number 1 orchard (much better air movement). Some of our blight resistant trees have suffered at least minor damage in these orchards as well. To date Wintersweet has experienced no blight damage in our number 2 or number 3 orchards. > > The reason I believe this tree is valuable from a food self-sufficiency standpoint is that the tree is so incredibly vigorous, shows no signs of disease problems, produces a prodigious quantity of very sweet fruit, produces its fruit in the fall after the peak of the annuals harvest has passed, and probably will store for a long time in a root cellar or other appropriate environment. *Winter fruit without canning is highly valuable from a food self-sufficiency standpoint. * > > WinterSweet appears to be a European/ Asian cross. It has a an Asian growth pattern, with branches close together in a vertical orientation. > It does not spread naturally. It has thick stems and gives the appearance of an Asian pear. The flavor however is radically different than Asian pears. I have never tasted a pear with such tartness. > > I believe it would be helpful for the local food movement if this pear tree were widely disseminated, particularly for people aspiring to food self-sufficiency. WinterSweet is a dramatically better pear than other winter keepers like Burford or Keiffer, much sweeter and more flavorful. > Wintersweet has a later ripening time than any of the other desert pears, later than any pear with which I am familiar. Given its density and late ripening, it may store later into the winter than any of the other storage pears, though I cannot make that claim based on systematic comparisons with other pears. > > Plan to Disseminate > > We have a limited quantity of fruit at this time. We also have an excellent solar food drying system. I am part of an organization called Living Energy Farm that is building a farm and a community that will run without fossil fuel (see livingenergyfarm.org). I would like to propagate this tree and let the proceeds support Living Energy Farm. In the winter of 2015-2016, I will order roostock. (I teach propagation classes and get the rootstock for those classes.) I use OHxF pear rootstock. WinterSweet is the fastest growing pear of any we have planted on OHxF rootstock, which is a modern, blight-resistant rootstock. We use OHxF 333, a semi-dwarf rootstock, and OHxF 97, which produces a near full-sized tree. Our earliest WinterSweets are on 333 rootstock, and have a vertical orientation topping off at about 15 feet. > I don't think they are going to get any taller. So far our WinterSweets on OHxF 97 are wider, and perhaps 20 feet tall. I don't know what the final height of a WinterSweet on OHxF 97 might be. > > This winter, we are going to try to send dried samples of WinterSweet to as many people as we can (at no charge). We are going to propagate trees based on the number of people who say they are interested in purchasing trees shipped to them in winter 2016-2017 (about a year from now). If you want a tree, let us know now. Asking for a tree now will NOT commit you to buying one a year from now. We will ask for payment then, and you can decline at that time if you choose. But I don't want to propagate a lot of trees unless there is sufficient interest. Final cost will depend on what we can figure our for shipping. I would estimate something in the range of $30 - $40 for one tree, and an additional $25 for each additional tree. > > I will probably not disseminate scion wood this year as supply is limited. Please let me know if you would like to make buy a WinterSweet next winter. Please let me know if you want a free sample (small) of the dried fruit. We will be sending these samples to a LIMITED number of people. Please send an email with WinterSweet in the subject line to tradelocally (that email symbol) yahoo.com to indicate your interests. > > Thanks, > > Alexis Zeigler > __________________ > nafex mailing list > nafex at lists.ibiblio.org > Northamerican Allied Fruit Experimenters subscribe/unsubscribe|user config|list info: > http://lists.ibiblio.org/mailman/listinfo/nafex > > > > ------------------------------ > > Subject: Digest Footer > > __________________ > nafex mailing list > nafex at lists.ibiblio.org > Northamerican Allied Fruit Experimenters > subscribe/unsubscribe|user config|list info: > http://lists.ibiblio.org/mailman/listinfo/nafex > > ------------------------------ > > End of nafex Digest, Vol 159, Issue 2 > ************************************* > From mijwiz at yahoo.com Wed Oct 28 11:09:44 2015 From: mijwiz at yahoo.com (Melissa Kacalanos) Date: Wed, 28 Oct 2015 11:09:44 -0400 Subject: [nafex] New Pear Variety for Self Sufficiency In-Reply-To: <562E4F1C.5000007@conev.org> References: <562E4F1C.5000007@conev.org> Message-ID: <6DA2D13F-B855-4733-8D0B-1E8F4C9BF172@yahoo.com> Cool, I sent an email indicating my interest. From the description, it reminds me of Goldrush apple, which is so inedibly hard and sour in fall, even insects and squirrels won't eat it. After mellowing in storage for months, it's finally delicious in spring, with a good sweet/tart balance and lots of aromatic flavor. Am I right in thinking this pear is similar? If the tree is so vigorous, it must require a lot of pruning. I'd be concerned that a dwarfing rootstock might not be sufficient to anchor it properly if it's allowed to grow too big. I've requested mine on standard rootstock. I don't mind a big tree. Although I can imagine others would want it on the most dwarfing rootstock possible, to try to keep its vigor in bounds. I'd be curious to plant seeds from this tree. To me, pears tend to err on the side of blandness. I'd like to taste a pear with a classic dessert pear texture but a bit more oomph in taste. If this pear has been pollinated by more classic dessert pears, the seedlings may be interesting. I passed your post along to the NAFEX Facebook group. I wanted to also put it in the Gardenweb Fruit and Orchards forum, but it was too long. You could edit it down and post it there. Melissa From sam.brungardt at state.mn.us Fri Oct 30 12:32:00 2015 From: sam.brungardt at state.mn.us (Brungardt, Sam (MPCA)) Date: Fri, 30 Oct 2015 16:32:00 +0000 Subject: [nafex] Fanatical Botanical: Grow jujubes for a new fruit experience (Roanoke Times) Message-ID: <1268E36B214F7D4F968B0285BF5CF3E4057CBBA5@055-CH1MPN1-031.055d.mgd.msft.net> Fanatical Botanical: Grow jujubes for a new fruit experience (https://www.google.com/url?rct=j&sa=t&url=http://www.roanoke.com/life/columns_and_blogs/blogs/fanatical_botanical/fanatical-botanical-grow-jujubes-for-a-new-fruit-experience/article_81683c64-7e47-11e5-9d97-4b310b71b633.html&ct=ga&cd=CAEYACoUMTMwMzA0MDIwNDU4MTY2NTE3MTMyGmY0ZTdkZmFiYzFjOTM0NzY6Y29tOmVuOlVT&usg=AFQjCNHaCBHg1rc70xhNq_czFsE1p-Vl_w ) Roanoke (Va.) Times (blog) Jujube is a Chinese native that just happens to grow really well here in the US, and especially in southwest VA. Gardening.org states that the tree is ... From alex at conev.org Fri Oct 30 12:51:24 2015 From: alex at conev.org (alexis) Date: Fri, 30 Oct 2015 12:51:24 -0400 Subject: [nafex] Wintersweet Pear In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <5633A00C.6050905@conev.org> Melissa, I don't have enough experience with Goldrush to know if the comparison holds. As for rootstock, I have stuck with OHxF. The smallest OHxF is 333. I have grafted hundreds of trees on OHxF 333 and never seen any need for anchoring. It NOT like dwarfing apple rootstock that makes sickly trees that fall over in the breeze. The OHxF is perhaps better called a semi-dwarf. My Wintersweets on OHxF 333 are not small trees. They are narrow, but not short, and still very, very vigorous. When it comes to pruning, there is a wide range of technique that can produce acceptable results. I prune as little as possible, until a tree tells me it wants more. (They tell you if you watch them.) The Wintersweet would probably benefit from some spreading. It definitely bunches up like Asian pears often do. I have a friend who has a couple of Wintersweet trees and he has cut them hard. I will watch his trees. I suspect that, at least in the near term, my largely unpruned trees will outproduce his, but we will see. I will post a short description that can be forwarded to Gardenweb. Thanks, Alexis On 10/30/2015 12:32 PM, nafex-request at lists.ibiblio.org wrote: > Send nafex mailing list submissions to > nafex at lists.ibiblio.org > > To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit > http://lists.ibiblio.org/mailman/listinfo/nafex > or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to > nafex-request at lists.ibiblio.org > > You can reach the person managing the list at > nafex-owner at lists.ibiblio.org > > When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific > than "Re: Contents of nafex digest..." > > > Today's Topics: > > 1. Re: New Pear Variety for Self Sufficiency (Melissa Kacalanos) > 2. Fanatical Botanical: Grow jujubes for a new fruit experience > (Roanoke Times) (Brungardt, Sam (MPCA)) > > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > > Message: 1 > Date: Wed, 28 Oct 2015 11:09:44 -0400 > From: Melissa Kacalanos > To: mailing list at ibiblio - Northamerican Allied Fruit Experimenters > > Subject: Re: [nafex] New Pear Variety for Self Sufficiency > Message-ID: <6DA2D13F-B855-4733-8D0B-1E8F4C9BF172 at yahoo.com> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii > > Cool, I sent an email indicating my interest. From the description, it reminds me of Goldrush apple, which is so inedibly hard and sour in fall, even insects and squirrels won't eat it. After mellowing in storage for months, it's finally delicious in spring, with a good sweet/tart balance and lots of aromatic flavor. Am I right in thinking this pear is similar? > > If the tree is so vigorous, it must require a lot of pruning. I'd be concerned that a dwarfing rootstock might not be sufficient to anchor it properly if it's allowed to grow too big. I've requested mine on standard rootstock. I don't mind a big tree. Although I can imagine others would want it on the most dwarfing rootstock possible, to try to keep its vigor in bounds. > > I'd be curious to plant seeds from this tree. To me, pears tend to err on the side of blandness. I'd like to taste a pear with a classic dessert pear texture but a bit more oomph in taste. If this pear has been pollinated by more classic dessert pears, the seedlings may be interesting. > > I passed your post along to the NAFEX Facebook group. I wanted to also put it in the Gardenweb Fruit and Orchards forum, but it was too long. You could edit it down and post it there. > > Melissa > > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 2 > Date: Fri, 30 Oct 2015 16:32:00 +0000 > From: "Brungardt, Sam (MPCA)" > To: mailing list at ibiblio - Northamerican Allied Fruit Experimenters > > Subject: [nafex] Fanatical Botanical: Grow jujubes for a new fruit > experience (Roanoke Times) > Message-ID: > <1268E36B214F7D4F968B0285BF5CF3E4057CBBA5 at 055-CH1MPN1-031.055d.mgd.msft.net> > > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" > > Fanatical Botanical: Grow jujubes for a new fruit experience (https://www.google.com/url?rct=j&sa=t&url=http://www.roanoke.com/life/columns_and_blogs/blogs/fanatical_botanical/fanatical-botanical-grow-jujubes-for-a-new-fruit-experience/article_81683c64-7e47-11e5-9d97-4b310b71b633.html&ct=ga&cd=CAEYACoUMTMwMzA0MDIwNDU4MTY2NTE3MTMyGmY0ZTdkZmFiYzFjOTM0NzY6Y29tOmVuOlVT&usg=AFQjCNHaCBHg1rc70xhNq_czFsE1p-Vl_w ) > > Roanoke (Va.) Times (blog) > > Jujube is a Chinese native that just happens to grow really well here in the US, and especially in southwest VA. Gardening.org states that the tree is ... > > > > ------------------------------ > > Subject: Digest Footer > > __________________ > nafex mailing list > nafex at lists.ibiblio.org > Northamerican Allied Fruit Experimenters > subscribe/unsubscribe|user config|list info: > http://lists.ibiblio.org/mailman/listinfo/nafex > > ------------------------------ > > End of nafex Digest, Vol 159, Issue 4 > ************************************* > From alandhaigh at gmail.com Fri Oct 30 12:53:11 2015 From: alandhaigh at gmail.com (Alan Haigh) Date: Fri, 30 Oct 2015 12:53:11 -0400 Subject: [nafex] nafex Digest, Vol 159, Issue 4 In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: ." From the description, it reminds me of Goldrush apple, which is so inedibly hard and sour in fall, even insects and squirrels won't eat it." This is extremely subjective, even on the basis of squirrel opinion. I have found squirrels more than happy to eat it once it becomes fairly tree ripe- they do generally prefer low acid fruit, but humans vary in this regard. I and many folks I know love Goldrush right off the tree. I actually prefer their sharp taste than to the more basic flavor of a stored one. Insects tend not to bother any hard apple as much as softer ones- in unsprayed nursery trees I will get some decent Fujis as well as Goldrush. On Fri, Oct 30, 2015 at 12:32 PM, wrote: > Send nafex mailing list submissions to > nafex at lists.ibiblio.org > > To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit > http://lists.ibiblio.org/mailman/listinfo/nafex > or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to > nafex-request at lists.ibiblio.org > > You can reach the person managing the list at > nafex-owner at lists.ibiblio.org > > When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific > than "Re: Contents of nafex digest..." > > > Today's Topics: > > 1. Re: New Pear Variety for Self Sufficiency (Melissa Kacalanos) > 2. Fanatical Botanical: Grow jujubes for a new fruit experience > (Roanoke Times) (Brungardt, Sam (MPCA)) > > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > > Message: 1 > Date: Wed, 28 Oct 2015 11:09:44 -0400 > From: Melissa Kacalanos > To: mailing list at ibiblio - Northamerican Allied Fruit Experimenters > > Subject: Re: [nafex] New Pear Variety for Self Sufficiency > Message-ID: <6DA2D13F-B855-4733-8D0B-1E8F4C9BF172 at yahoo.com> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii > > Cool, I sent an email indicating my interest. From the description, it > reminds me of Goldrush apple, which is so inedibly hard and sour in fall, > even insects and squirrels won't eat it. After mellowing in storage for > months, it's finally delicious in spring, with a good sweet/tart balance > and lots of aromatic flavor. Am I right in thinking this pear is similar? > > If the tree is so vigorous, it must require a lot of pruning. I'd be > concerned that a dwarfing rootstock might not be sufficient to anchor it > properly if it's allowed to grow too big. I've requested mine on standard > rootstock. I don't mind a big tree. Although I can imagine others would > want it on the most dwarfing rootstock possible, to try to keep its vigor > in bounds. > > I'd be curious to plant seeds from this tree. To me, pears tend to err on > the side of blandness. I'd like to taste a pear with a classic dessert pear > texture but a bit more oomph in taste. If this pear has been pollinated by > more classic dessert pears, the seedlings may be interesting. > > I passed your post along to the NAFEX Facebook group. I wanted to also put > it in the Gardenweb Fruit and Orchards forum, but it was too long. You > could edit it down and post it there. > > Melissa > > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 2 > Date: Fri, 30 Oct 2015 16:32:00 +0000 > From: "Brungardt, Sam (MPCA)" > To: mailing list at ibiblio - Northamerican Allied Fruit Experimenters > > Subject: [nafex] Fanatical Botanical: Grow jujubes for a new fruit > experience (Roanoke Times) > Message-ID: > < > 1268E36B214F7D4F968B0285BF5CF3E4057CBBA5 at 055-CH1MPN1-031.055d.mgd.msft.net > > > > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" > > Fanatical Botanical: Grow jujubes for a new fruit experience < > https://www.google.com/url?rct=j&sa=t&url=http://www.roanoke.com/life/columns_and_blogs/blogs/fanatical_botanical/fanatical-botanical-grow-jujubes-for-a-new-fruit-experience/article_81683c64-7e47-11e5-9d97-4b310b71b633.html&ct=ga&cd=CAEYACoUMTMwMzA0MDIwNDU4MTY2NTE3MTMyGmY0ZTdkZmFiYzFjOTM0NzY6Y29tOmVuOlVT&usg=AFQjCNHaCBHg1rc70xhNq_czFsE1p-Vl_w> > ( > https://www.google.com/url?rct=j&sa=t&url=http://www.roanoke.com/life/columns_and_blogs/blogs/fanatical_botanical/fanatical-botanical-grow-jujubes-for-a-new-fruit-experience/article_81683c64-7e47-11e5-9d97-4b310b71b633.html&ct=ga&cd=CAEYACoUMTMwMzA0MDIwNDU4MTY2NTE3MTMyGmY0ZTdkZmFiYzFjOTM0NzY6Y29tOmVuOlVT&usg=AFQjCNHaCBHg1rc70xhNq_czFsE1p-Vl_w > ) > > Roanoke (Va.) Times (blog) > > Jujube is a Chinese native that just happens to grow really well here in > the US, and especially in southwest VA. Gardening.org states that the tree > is ... > > > > ------------------------------ > > Subject: Digest Footer > > __________________ > nafex mailing list > nafex at lists.ibiblio.org > Northamerican Allied Fruit Experimenters > subscribe/unsubscribe|user config|list info: > http://lists.ibiblio.org/mailman/listinfo/nafex > > ------------------------------ > > End of nafex Digest, Vol 159, Issue 4 > ************************************* > From mijwiz at yahoo.com Fri Oct 30 16:08:40 2015 From: mijwiz at yahoo.com (Melissa Kacalanos) Date: Fri, 30 Oct 2015 16:08:40 -0400 Subject: [nafex] Wintersweet Pear In-Reply-To: <5633A00C.6050905@conev.org> References: <5633A00C.6050905@conev.org> Message-ID: <7B95DB73-81EC-47CD-93E7-2CD660D4E99E@yahoo.com> Maybe the more relevant comparison would be to other winter storage pears. A bit of googling unearths things like the Passe Crassane, which apparently is succeptible to fireblight, so Wintersweet is an improvement in that regard at least. A bit about storage pears here: https://www.frenchgardening.com/tech.html?pid=1139483932219159 Melissa From ehilborn at mebtel.net Fri Oct 30 22:48:24 2015 From: ehilborn at mebtel.net (Elizabeth Hilborn) Date: Fri, 30 Oct 2015 22:48:24 -0400 Subject: [nafex] Wintersweet Pear In-Reply-To: <7B95DB73-81EC-47CD-93E7-2CD660D4E99E@yahoo.com> References: <5633A00C.6050905@conev.org> <7B95DB73-81EC-47CD-93E7-2CD660D4E99E@yahoo.com> Message-ID: <56342BF8.5000802@mebtel.net> Very useful article, Thanks! On 10/30/2015 4:08 PM, Melissa Kacalanos wrote: > Maybe the more relevant comparison would be to other winter storage pears. A bit of googling unearths things like the Passe Crassane, which apparently is succeptible to fireblight, so Wintersweet is an improvement in that regard at least. A bit about storage pears here: > https://www.frenchgardening.com/tech.html?pid=1139483932219159 > > Melissa >