permaculture

[<scott@permaculture.org>]

The very idea that you don't know what "care of people" means is a place to 
start.

This is the dharma that is missing in 21st century western culture.  Care of 
people is the opposite of what most of our governing structures are engaged 
in.  An increasingly militarized police force, using drones to kill people 
and then calling them collateral damages, children starving due to loss of 
jobs that have been farmed out to other families more willing to starve for 
less, no health care unless you can afford it (cultural triage), burden our 
youth with debt for education so they will become "wage slaves" to pay back 
such usury.  Turn our justice system into a cash cow of private prisons.  
Just basic goodness like don't steal, don't lie, don't covet, don't kill, be 
kind.  This is a conversation that is desperately needed and is barely 
touched on in pc classes.  Without a profound understanding of each one of 
the ethics one can not hope to design human settlement or to understand the 
basic principals of nature.

scott 

>  -------Original Message-------
>  From: Kathryn <elkatsan@gmail.com>
>  To: permaculture <permaculture@lists.ibiblio.org>
>  Subject: Re: [permaculture] Permaculture Invisible Structures
>  Sent: Jul 15 '16 18:21
>  
>  And with regards to the ethics of permaculture, I think that a discussion
>  of what "care for people" really means could be valuable... too often I
>  think "care" is confused with coddling others, or, in essence, enabling...
>  and that this can also manifest as being overly politically correct...
>  
>  We spend so much time in PDCs talking about how to care for the earth, but
>  really, what does it mean to care for people?
>  
>  Kathryn Ellen
>  San Luis Obispo, CA
>  
>  
>  
>  On Fri, Jul 15, 2016 at 4:52 PM, <scott@permaculture.org> wrote:
>  
>  > I  don't know how to make it any clearer: This recent thread is all about
>  > permaculture, it concerns the future of permacultaure and is much more
>  > important than instructions on how to prune a Pawpaw tree.  Without the
>  > ethics of permaculture there is no permaculture, just another gardening
>  > discussion.  Life is not "just" about how to sharpen colters to get 
> cleaner
>  > planting rows, nor how to make maple syrup it is also about how to
>  > deal  with greed, how to share resources and information and much much 
> more.
>  >
>  > Thanks,
>  >
>  >
>  > >  -------Original Message-------
>  > >  From: Lawrence London <lfljvenaura@gmail.com>
>  > >  To: permaculture <permaculture@lists.ibiblio.org>
>  > >  Subject: Re: [permaculture] Is it Satirical irony or
>  > >  Sent: Jul 15 '16 15:16
>  > >
>  > >  On Thu, Jul 14, 2016 at 11:08 AM, scrooge McDuck 
> <declan@planetmail.net
>  > >
>  > >  wrote:
>  > >
>  > >  >
>  > >  > Can I make an appeal for constructive discussion of PERMACULTURE?
>  > >
>  > >
>  > >  I just addressed this in several recent posts. Read and comment.
>  > >  I agree with you wholeheartedly. The list was formed in 1992 and
>  > >  PERMACULTURE was the only topic discussed and this wen n for many 
> years.
>  > >  After that valued poster began peeling off because of too much non
>  > positive
>  > >  feedback or too many off topic articles or whatever it was, maybe not
>  > >  enough PERMACULTURE discussion.
>  > >
>  > >  Can we have more hands on discussion about all aspects of permaculture
>  > from
>  > >  ethics ro earthworks to aquaponics now?
>  > >  If anyone is interested in holding forth about nutrition, food and 
> diet
>  > for
>  > >  permaculturists I have another list just for that,
>  > >
>  > >  pchealth posting address for subscribers: pchealth@lists.ibiblio.org,
>  > >  Permaculturist Health mailing list {} The Message Archives
>  > >  https://lists.ibiblio.org/sympa/arc/pchealth/
>  > >  The List Homepage
>  > >  http://lists.ibiblio.org/mailman/listinfo/pchealth
>  > >  Permaculturist Health is a forum for discussion and information
>  > exchange on
>  > >  a wide range of health and nutrition issues faced by those involved in
>  > any
>  > >  way with the global permaculture movement.
>  > >
>  > >  While looking for that I found a great website that Toby has created:
>  > >
>  > >  What Permaculture Isn’t—and Is November 28, 2012 By Toby Hemenway
>  > >  <http://tobyhemenway.com/author/tobyhemenway/>
>  > >  http://tobyhemenway.com/668-what-permaculture-isnt-and-is/
>  > >  And I quote without permission this amazing paragraph from Toby, right
>  > in
>  > >  sync with ongoing discussion threads, so to open yet another huge can 
> of
>  > >  worms:
>  > >  "Permaculture is notoriously hard to define. A recent survey
>  > >  <
>  > 
> http://liberationecology.org/2012/11/14/wait-youre-studying-what-again-part-2/
>  > >
>  > >  shows that people simultaneously believe it is a design approach, a
>  > >  philosophy, a movement, and a set of practices. This broad and
>  > >  contradiction-laden brush doesn’t just make permaculture hard to
>  > describe.
>  > >  It can be off-putting, too. Let’s say you first encounter permaculture
>  > as a
>  > >  potent method of food production and are just starting to grasp that 
> it
>  > is
>  > >  more than that, when someone tells you that it also includes goddess
>  > >  spirituality, and anti-GMO activism, and barefoot living. What would 
> you
>  > >  make of that? And how many people think they’ve finally got the
>  > politics of
>  > >  permaculturists all figured out, and assume that we would logically
>  > also be
>  > >  vegetarians, only to find militant meat-eaters in the ranks? What kind
>  > of
>  > >  philosophy could possibly umbrella all those divergent views? Or is 
> it a
>  > >  philosophy at all? I’m going to argue here that the most accurate and
>  > least
>  > >  muddled way to think of permaculture is as a design approach, and that
>  > we
>  > >  are often misdirected by the fact that it fits into a larger 
> philosophy
>  > and
>  > >  movement which it supports. But it is not that philosophy or movement.
>  > It
>  > >  is a design approach for realizing a new paradigm. And we’ll find that
>  > this
>  > >  way of defining it is also a balm to those in other ecological design
>  > >  fields and technologies who get annoyed, understandably, when
>  > >  permaculturists tell them, “Oh, yes, your work is part of 
> permaculture,
>  > >  too.”"
>  > >
>  > >  If someone feels we need warning about a certain dangerous 
> Permaculture
>  > >  > sharks references to online sources are a better approach than one
>  > sided
>  > >  > polemics.
>  > >
>  > >
>  > >  Another huge can of worms has been opened. May peop0le feel that it is
>  > >  important to maintain high quality standards for permaculture
>  > definition,
>  > >  education and practice. I think this is super important and that is an
>  > >  understatement. I could go on for pages why I feel this to be true. 
> Many
>  > >  maintain that there are certain businesses misrepresenting their work 
> as
>  > >  true permaculture when in reality they are poseurs out for money first
>  > and
>  > >  permaculture last. That is why warnings are posted from time to time. 
>  A
>  > >  bit off the edge analogy:
>  > >  As in Alien: Nostromo is committed to investigate any signals coming
>  > from
>  > >  an external source during our voyage..........
>  > >  ......Mother has analysed the signal and says that it is a warning, we
>  > >  should contact our friends and let them know......Ash: "well there's 
> no
>  > >  need to alert the exploration crew, they will know soon enough when 
> they
>  > >  get to their destination".
>  > >  Maintenance of permaculture standards gets more important every month
>  > and
>  > >  every year and for so many super important reasons.
>  > >
>  > >  We should all collaborate on a book to complement Scott's or write our
>  > own.
>  > >  Mine would be about permaculture standards and why they are important.
>  > >
>  > >  LL
>  > >
>  > >
>  > >  --
>  > >  Lawrence F. London
>  > >  lfljvenaura@gmail.com
>  > >  https://sites.google.com/site/avantgeared
>  > >  https://plus.google.com/u/0/b/116100117925365792988/+Avantgeared/posts
>  > >  https://ello.co/lflondon <https://ello.co/permaculture>
>  > >  https://ello.co/permaculture
>  > >  https://lists.ibiblio.org/sympa/arc/permaculture
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