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  • From: A Sampson-Kelly <april@permaculturevisions.com>
  • To: permaculture@lists.ibiblio.org
  • Subject: [permaculture] Market Gardening is NOT Permaculture.
  • Date: Thu, 30 Jan 2014 10:06:30 +1100

Market Gardens are wonderful, don't get me misquoted here,
but they are not the permaculture message.
Market gardens export nutrients and organic matter, they are constantly needing inputs to compensate for the exports.
as we all know Permaculture design aims to be a closed nutrient cycle,
so when something like a gorgeous market garden is branded as permaculture it muddies the message.
When you need to keep importing nutrients and minerals and organic matter you are starting to talk about extra "work" and extra management.

When I first came to this site in 1993 we spent 6 hours every second weekend in summer just mowing the lawns,
we definitely invest a lot less work and time on this site now.
So, there is no trouble with permaculture on my site and the reduced work load is clear here.
http://permaculturevisions.com/what-is-permaculture-2/905-2/the-difference-between-organic-gardening-and-permaculture/

--

*April S-Kelly*
Additional Email: aprilskellymtkembla@gmail.com
Write: Permaculture Visions Cordeaux Rd Mt Kembla Village 2526 Australia
Facebook: Permaculture Visions Fan Page
Google+: MotherGoosePermaculture A-S-Kelly
We are a carbon-negative business. http://www.permaculturevisions.com <http://www.permaculturevisions.com/>
*Please consider your environment before printing this email on old-fashioned paper.*

On 26/01/2014 2:22 PM, permaculture-request@lists.ibiblio.org wrote:
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Today's Topics:

1. Re: The Trouble with Permaculture ( Darrell E. Frey )
2. Re: The Trouble with Permaculture ( Darrell E. Frey )
3. New residential PDC for 2014: Permaculture Design, Deep
Nature Connection, and Natural Health (Lawrence London)
4. Re: The Trouble with Permaculture (Michael Pilarski)
5. 9th Annual PDC, MMRF, Belize, Feb 10-22nd (christopher nesbitt)
6. Re: The Trouble with Permaculture ( Darrell E. Frey )
7. Re: The Trouble with Permaculture (Koreen Brennan)


----------------------------------------------------------------------

Message: 1
Date: Sat, 25 Jan 2014 13:23:04 -0500
From: " Darrell E. Frey " <defrey@bioshelter.com>
Subject: Re: [permaculture] The Trouble with Permaculture
To: permaculture@lists.ibiblio.org, Holger Hieronimi
<holger@tierramor.org>
Message-ID: <20140125132304.99kczrwvfsowg8so@webmail.bioshelter.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format="flowed"

I have to confess I have had similar experiences as the article
describes, many times over the last 30 years. Many people have visited
my market garden farm, who, with a limited view of Permaculture Design,
offered numerous critiques? and questioned where the "permaculture "
was?
I have been teaching permaculture design since 1987, with many
different associates, in various venues. We always teach permaculture
as a design system applied land, buildings,? businesses, farms,
schools lifestyles and regions and so on. Permaculture encompasses all
aspects of our human relationship to our planet and draws on many
disciplines and resources to achieve our goals consistant with our
ethics. As I heard Bill Mollison say in person in 1981, it is not how
you garden, it is just where you put the garden that makes a
permaculture design .
As a permaculture design professional I help clients, starting from
where they are, to achieve their goals to live a more ecologically
sustainable lifestyle. Sometimes that includes a forest garden,
sometimes a biointensive garden, and generally a mix. Some may mulch,
sme may till. Generally they will do both in different gardens.?
Sometimes it is just about what they eat and where they buy it, and
what the do with "waste" But it also includes time management,
succession planning, resource conservation, and a goal to achieve the
yields the client seeks.

So, back to the article in question, I say bravo! Let us read such self
critique with an open mind and seek to broaden the view of our
associates. The experience the author describes predate the a
forementioned Vlad by decades, and comes from people short on
experience .

? A deep reading of Bill Mollison does not really promise no work
gardening. Do not confuse his promotion techniques with real advice.
Yes, such presentation by Mollison may have led to short sighted
comprehension by novices? of permaculture, but I do not think he, or
anyone else I have taught permaculture with promised a yield with no
work. And we did not think mollison really suggested that entirely. I
met Bill Mollison in 1981 and again in 1990 when he spent a day at my
fledgling farm. He wrote in my copy of the Designer's Manual. "Great
Work!" as he signed it for me. Work indeed!

Darrell E. Frey
Three Sisters Farm
defrey@bioshelter.com
www.bioshelter.com

Author; Bioshelter Market Garden: A Permaculture Farm. New Society
Publishing, 2011

On Sat, 25 Jan 2014 06:18:54 -0500, Holger Hieronimi
<holger@tierramor.org> wrote:
Why Bad? I think this article is a good one, althought it is very
critical with some expressions of PC-
the author is not uninformed, since she aparently read though some of
the basic literature plus seems to have considerable experience in
organic food production...

Its more than clear now that some of the "Mollsionisms" ("The
designer becomes a recliner"/ "The problem is the solution"/ etc.)
were great vehicles to draw atention back in the 80ies, but also
helped to build "cult permaculture" & a cadre of enthusiastic PC
illuminates described in the article. No problem...I have been one
after my first PDC back in 1996....and I?m happy for that, since
this motivated me (in my case) to actually try to establish some
systems and realize that not everything works as well in realiity as
described th the PC Designers Manual, a greant book but definitly not
the "bible" and/or ultimate expression of PC.

Every course of some PC celebrities (Geoff Lawton is one prominent
example) adds some more to this number (and I think nobody in thios
group wants to qualify him as some body who gives "bad courses"), and
its only through a few years of practice "on the ground",
establishing designs, getting dirtty, maintainig developing systems,
producing food, experiencing how systems actually work and evolve
over time in different climates & contexts, that the imaginative
power of PC concepts get grounded.

saludos desde Colombia (en este momento)

Holger


El 24/01/14 04:14, permaculture-request@lists.ibiblio.org escribi?:
The Trouble with Permaculture
http://www.resilience.org/stories/2014-01-23/the-trouble-with-permaculture

a very bad article; Vlad fodder, awful - just to see what the uninformed
are up to
-- Holger Hieronimi - holger@tierramor.org
TIERRAMOR - Dise?o Integrado
www.tierramor.org
Dise?o de sistemas ecol?gicos
Consultas y asesor?as
Facilitaci?n de conferencias, seminarios, cursos y talleres

_______________________________________________
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How to permaculture your urban lifestyle
http://www.ipermie.net Avant Geared http://www.avantgeared.com
https://plus.google.com/+Avantgeared
Permaculture: -- portal to an expanding global network of landtech
pioneers -- who are designing ecological land use systems with
integrated elements for synergy, sustainability, regeneration and
enhanced nature-compatible human habitat


------------------------------

Message: 2
Date: Sat, 25 Jan 2014 13:23:04 -0500
From: " Darrell E. Frey " <defrey@bioshelter.com>
Subject: Re: [permaculture] The Trouble with Permaculture
To: permaculture@lists.ibiblio.org, Holger Hieronimi
<holger@tierramor.org>
Message-ID: <20140125132304.99kczrwvfsowg8so@webmail.bioshelter.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format="flowed"

I have to confess I have had similar experiences as the article
describes, many times over the last 30 years. Many people have visited
my market garden farm, who, with a limited view of Permaculture Design,
offered numerous critiques? and questioned where the "permaculture "
was?
I have been teaching permaculture design since 1987, with many
different associates, in various venues. We always teach permaculture
as a design system applied land, buildings,? businesses, farms,
schools lifestyles and regions and so on. Permaculture encompasses all
aspects of our human relationship to our planet and draws on many
disciplines and resources to achieve our goals consistant with our
ethics. As I heard Bill Mollison say in person in 1981, it is not how
you garden, it is just where you put the garden that makes a
permaculture design .
As a permaculture design professional I help clients, starting from
where they are, to achieve their goals to live a more ecologically
sustainable lifestyle. Sometimes that includes a forest garden,
sometimes a biointensive garden, and generally a mix. Some may mulch,
sme may till. Generally they will do both in different gardens.?
Sometimes it is just about what they eat and where they buy it, and
what the do with "waste" But it also includes time management,
succession planning, resource conservation, and a goal to achieve the
yields the client seeks.

So, back to the article in question, I say bravo! Let us read such self
critique with an open mind and seek to broaden the view of our
associates. The experience the author describes predate the a
forementioned Vlad by decades, and comes from people short on
experience .

? A deep reading of Bill Mollison does not really promise no work
gardening. Do not confuse his promotion techniques with real advice.
Yes, such presentation by Mollison may have led to short sighted
comprehension by novices? of permaculture, but I do not think he, or
anyone else I have taught permaculture with promised a yield with no
work. And we did not think mollison really suggested that entirely. I
met Bill Mollison in 1981 and again in 1990 when he spent a day at my
fledgling farm. He wrote in my copy of the Designer's Manual. "Great
Work!" as he signed it for me. Work indeed!

Darrell E. Frey
Three Sisters Farm
defrey@bioshelter.com
www.bioshelter.com

Author; Bioshelter Market Garden: A Permaculture Farm. New Society
Publishing, 2011

On Sat, 25 Jan 2014 06:18:54 -0500, Holger Hieronimi
<holger@tierramor.org> wrote:
Why Bad? I think this article is a good one, althought it is very
critical with some expressions of PC-
the author is not uninformed, since she aparently read though some of
the basic literature plus seems to have considerable experience in
organic food production...

Its more than clear now that some of the "Mollsionisms" ("The
designer becomes a recliner"/ "The problem is the solution"/ etc.)
were great vehicles to draw atention back in the 80ies, but also
helped to build "cult permaculture" & a cadre of enthusiastic PC
illuminates described in the article. No problem...I have been one
after my first PDC back in 1996....and I?m happy for that, since
this motivated me (in my case) to actually try to establish some
systems and realize that not everything works as well in realiity as
described th the PC Designers Manual, a greant book but definitly not
the "bible" and/or ultimate expression of PC.

Every course of some PC celebrities (Geoff Lawton is one prominent
example) adds some more to this number (and I think nobody in thios
group wants to qualify him as some body who gives "bad courses"), and
its only through a few years of practice "on the ground",
establishing designs, getting dirtty, maintainig developing systems,
producing food, experiencing how systems actually work and evolve
over time in different climates & contexts, that the imaginative
power of PC concepts get grounded.

saludos desde Colombia (en este momento)

Holger


El 24/01/14 04:14, permaculture-request@lists.ibiblio.org escribi?:
The Trouble with Permaculture
http://www.resilience.org/stories/2014-01-23/the-trouble-with-permaculture

a very bad article; Vlad fodder, awful - just to see what the uninformed
are up to
-- Holger Hieronimi - holger@tierramor.org
TIERRAMOR - Dise?o Integrado
www.tierramor.org
Dise?o de sistemas ecol?gicos
Consultas y asesor?as
Facilitaci?n de conferencias, seminarios, cursos y talleres

_______________________________________________
permaculture mailing list
permaculture@lists.ibiblio.org
subscribe/unsubscribe|user config|list info|make a donation toward
list maintenance:
http://lists.ibiblio.org/mailman/listinfo/permaculture
message archives: https://lists.ibiblio.org/sympa/arc/permaculture/
Google message archive search:
site: lists.ibiblio.org/pipermail/permaculture [searchstring]
Permaculture Institute USA http://permaculture.org
How to permaculture your urban lifestyle
http://www.ipermie.net Avant Geared http://www.avantgeared.com
https://plus.google.com/+Avantgeared
Permaculture: -- portal to an expanding global network of landtech
pioneers -- who are designing ecological land use systems with
integrated elements for synergy, sustainability, regeneration and
enhanced nature-compatible human habitat


------------------------------

Message: 3
Date: Sat, 25 Jan 2014 16:45:20 -0500
From: Lawrence London <lfljvenaura@gmail.com>
Subject: [permaculture] New residential PDC for 2014: Permaculture
Design, Deep Nature Connection, and Natural Health
To: permaculture <permaculture@lists.ibiblio.org>
Message-ID:
<CA+j2Q+B3K_mu0ksRJ7o3X+BKKcmjp1z8U08Wtvq-J0oFbAGuJg@mail.gmail.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8

http://www.earth-ways.co.uk/pdc-2014/

New residential PDC for 2014: Permaculture Design, Deep Nature Connection,
and Natural Health

by Ludwig Appeltans on October 6, 2013

in Awareness <http://www.earth-ways.co.uk/category/awareness/>, Climate
Change <http://www.earth-ways.co.uk/category/climate-change/>,
consciousness<http://www.earth-ways.co.uk/category/consciousness/>,
Courses <http://www.earth-ways.co.uk/category/courses/>, Earth Ways'
Farm<http://www.earth-ways.co.uk/category/earth-ways-farm/>,
Education <http://www.earth-ways.co.uk/category/education/>,
Environment<http://www.earth-ways.co.uk/category/environment/>,
evolution <http://www.earth-ways.co.uk/category/evolution/>, Forest
Garden<http://www.earth-ways.co.uk/category/forest-garden/>,
Gardening <http://www.earth-ways.co.uk/category/gardening/>, Natural Pest
Control <http://www.earth-ways.co.uk/category/natural-pest-control/>, Nature
Connection <http://www.earth-ways.co.uk/category/nature-connection/>, News
& Events <http://www.earth-ways.co.uk/category/news-events/>,
Organic<http://www.earth-ways.co.uk/category/organic/>,
Permaculture <http://www.earth-ways.co.uk/category/permaculture/>, Survival
Skills <http://www.earth-ways.co.uk/category/survival-skills/>,
Tracking<http://www.earth-ways.co.uk/category/tracking/>,
Wilderness <http://www.earth-ways.co.uk/category/wilderness/>,
Wildlife<http://www.earth-ways.co.uk/category/wildlife/>

July 4th, 6PM? July 18th, 1PM 2014. Anam Cara, Inverness, Highland,
Scotland.

This holistic approach towards permaculture is a exciting new combination.
It reflects the pioneering permaculture vision that Earth Ways has
developed over the years.

Permaculture starts with nature connection and is only complete when people
are as healthy as they can be.

Permaculture is designing sustainable systems, modelled on nature.
Re-connecting with nature to better understand her is an essential first
step.

I?m pleased to tell you that the course will be of very high standards.
Even better than the last one with our new addition to our crew: Klaudia
van Gool. Ludwig Appeltans, Klaudia van Gool, Greg Sommer and Georgina
Richardson will offer a fantastic 14 day intensive course at Anam
Cara<http://www.anamcara.org>in Inverness.

Learn about natural systems and deepen your understanding of Permaculture
Design, Forest Gardening and ecosystems. Be(come) connected to nature and
learn how to design a permaculture diet with Georgina Richardson. She is a
natural health chef. She will show us how to design ?a permaculture diet?
and feed us this way for the full 14 days enabling us to experience how our
body and mind feels when fed so healthily. Food that is good for the planet
AND good for us!
You will also have the opportunity to spend some time foraging, relaxing
and exploring Scottish Highland?s nature, where you can discover the
magnificent wildlife present in this stunning location.

The delightful flavour of this Permaculture Design Course will be upheld by
the 4 awesome teachers working together, with the accents of Nature
Connection and Natural Health making it a PDC with distinction.

Upon successful completion you will be awarded a certificate in
Permaculture Design from the Permaculture Association Britain.

We?d love you to join us.

More pictures from the last PDC?s can be seen here:
http://www.earth-ways.co.uk/gallery/

or here:
http://www.flickr.com/photos/32369588@N07/sets/72157634771197666/<http://www.flickr.com/photos/32369588@N07/sets/72157634771197666/>

<>
FAQ

*- Why would I choose this course over other PDC?s? *

If you?re curious why I am so confident that this course is so wonderful,
please read on:

- Teaching quality is unusually high with 4 teachers and unusual yet
effective teaching methods. We each teach from our strengths, lifting the
level of the course higher, with more personal assistance. Please check
out
the biography of the teachers to see what excellence we have to share with
you.
- Perfect location; our venue is the beautiful Anam
Cara<http://www.anamcara.org>,
surrounded by the beautiful Scottish wildlife, which gives us excellent
nature observation opportunities.
- Our course gives you the opportunity to experience what life can be
like when we are treating our body to the healthiest and most balanced
diet
one can design on a normal household budget. We will also give you the
tools you need to develop a permaculture diet.
- The course will be taught on the premises of a beautiful new
permaculture garden, which gives you an -on site- example of how to change
an organic garden into a permaculture garden and practice the permaculture
principles you?ll learn.
- A wide variety of choice to make your practice design with a wide
variety of expertise available from the teachers.
- Most Permaculture Design courses offer only the 72 hours tuition
required for the certificate. We also offer many more optional learning
opportunities, making the course a holistic wonderful learning experience.


------------------------------

Message: 4
Date: Sat, 25 Jan 2014 15:43:19 -0800 (PST)
From: Michael Pilarski <friendsofthetrees@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: [permaculture] The Trouble with Permaculture
To: permaculture <permaculture@lists.ibiblio.org>
Message-ID:
<1390693399.39730.YahooMailNeo@web142301.mail.bf1.yahoo.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1

Darrell,? thank you for the comments. I concur with you completely.?

I too read the article being talked about and didn't think it was a bad
article at all.? She lambasted permaculturists who don't know how to garden,
and rightly so.? She poked at some holes in the PC ideology/dogmatism, and
rightly so.? We should all be alert for dogmatism and applying permaculture
techniques blindly (such as every pc design should include sheet mulch, a
hugelkultur and a food forest).

I went and viewed the youtube she was criticizing of Mike Feingold's pc
garden in the UK.? Mike's pc site looked good to me and his gardening . His
dialogue was good.? I am not sure what she was complaining about. Maybe it
was because Mike looked untidy. Perhaps it wasn't as productive as a wall to
wall garden at peak productivity.? But for the amount of time he put into it,
I suspect the cost/yield ratio was good.? I am perhaps biased since Mike
Feingold is a friend of mine and we taught a pdc in Nepal together.?

here is Mike Feingold's youtube if anyone wants to watch it, 9 minutes 37
seconds.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q3R1BZVnD4M


Michael Pilarski

?
Michael "Skeeter" Pilarski
Permaculture - Wildcrafting - Medicinal Herbs & Seeds


Sign up for my newsletter at www.friendsofthetrees.net
www.facebook.com/michael.skeeter.pilarski




On Saturday, January 25, 2014 11:55 AM, Darrell E. Frey
<defrey@bioshelter.com> wrote:
I have to confess I have had similar experiences as the article
describes, many times over the last 30 years. Many people have visited
my market garden farm, who, with a limited view of Permaculture Design,
offered numerous critiques? and questioned where the "permaculture "
was?
? I have been teaching permaculture design since 1987, with many
different associates, in various venues. We always teach permaculture
as a design system applied land, buildings,? businesses, farms,
schools lifestyles and regions and so on. Permaculture encompasses all
aspects of our human relationship to our planet and draws on many
disciplines and resources to achieve our goals consistant with our
ethics. As I heard Bill Mollison say in person in 1981, it is not how
you garden, it is just where you put the garden that makes a
permaculture design .
As a permaculture design professional I help clients, starting from
where they are, to achieve their goals to live a more ecologically
sustainable lifestyle. Sometimes that includes a forest garden,
sometimes a biointensive garden, and generally a mix. Some may mulch,
sme may till. Generally they will do both in different gardens.?
Sometimes it is just about what they eat and where they buy it, and
what the do with "waste" But it also includes time management,
succession planning, resource conservation, and a goal to achieve the
yields the client seeks.

So, back to the article in question, I say bravo! Let us read such self
critique with an open mind and seek to broaden the view of our
associates. The experience the author describes predate the a
forementioned Vlad by decades, and comes from people short on
experience .

? A deep reading of Bill Mollison does not really promise no work
gardening. Do not confuse his promotion techniques with real advice.
Yes, such presentation by Mollison may have led to short sighted
comprehension by novices? of permaculture, but I do not think he, or
anyone else I have taught permaculture with promised a yield with no
work. And we did not think mollison really suggested that entirely. I
met Bill Mollison in 1981 and again in 1990 when he spent a day at my
fledgling farm. He wrote in my copy of the Designer's Manual. "Great
Work!" as he signed it for me. Work indeed!

Darrell E. Frey
Three Sisters Farm
defrey@bioshelter.com
www.bioshelter.com

Author; Bioshelter Market Garden: A Permaculture Farm. New Society
Publishing, 2011

On Sat, 25 Jan 2014 06:18:54 -0500, Holger Hieronimi
<holger@tierramor.org> wrote:
Why Bad? I think this article is a good one, althought it is very
critical with some expressions of PC-
the author is not uninformed, since she aparently read though some of
the basic literature plus seems to have considerable experience in
organic food production...

Its more than clear now that some of the "Mollsionisms" ("The
designer becomes a recliner"/ "The problem is the solution"/ etc.)
were great vehicles to draw atention back in the 80ies, but also
helped to build "cult permaculture" & a cadre of enthusiastic PC
illuminates described in the article. No problem...I have been one
after my first PDC back in 1996....and I?m happy for that, since
this motivated me (in my case) to actually try to establish some
systems and realize that not everything works as well in realiity as
described th the PC Designers Manual, a greant book but definitly not
the "bible" and/or ultimate expression of PC.

Every course of some PC celebrities (Geoff Lawton is one prominent
example) adds some more to this number (and I think nobody in thios
group wants to qualify him as some body who gives "bad courses"), and
its only through a few years of practice "on the ground",
establishing designs, getting dirtty, maintainig developing systems,
producing food, experiencing how systems actually work and evolve
over time in different climates & contexts, that the imaginative
power of PC concepts get grounded.

saludos desde Colombia (en este momento)

Holger


El 24/01/14 04:14, permaculture-request@lists.ibiblio.org escribi?:
The Trouble with Permaculture
http://www.resilience.org/stories/2014-01-23/the-trouble-with-permaculture

a very bad article; Vlad fodder, awful - just to see what the uninformed
are up to
-- Holger Hieronimi - holger@tierramor.org
TIERRAMOR - Dise?o Integrado
www.tierramor.org
Dise?o de sistemas ecol?gicos
Consultas y asesor?as
Facilitaci?n de conferencias, seminarios, cursos y talleres

_______________________________________________
permaculture mailing list
permaculture@lists.ibiblio.org
subscribe/unsubscribe|user config|list info|make a donation toward
list maintenance:
http://lists.ibiblio.org/mailman/listinfo/permaculture
message archives:? https://lists.ibiblio.org/sympa/arc/permaculture/
Google message archive search:
site: lists.ibiblio.org/pipermail/permaculture [searchstring]
Permaculture Institute USA http://permaculture.org
How to permaculture your urban lifestyle
http://www.ipermie.net Avant Geared? http://www.avantgeared.com
https://plus.google.com/+Avantgeared
Permaculture: -- portal to an expanding global network of landtech
pioneers -- who are designing ecological land use systems with
integrated elements for synergy, sustainability, regeneration and
enhanced nature-compatible human habitat

_______________________________________________
permaculture mailing list
permaculture@lists.ibiblio.org
subscribe/unsubscribe|user config|list info|make a donation toward list
maintenance:
http://lists.ibiblio.org/mailman/listinfo/permaculture
message archives:? https://lists.ibiblio.org/sympa/arc/permaculture/
Google message archive search:
site: lists.ibiblio.org/pipermail/permaculture [searchstring]
Permaculture Institute USA http://permaculture.org
How to permaculture your urban lifestyle
http://www.ipermie.net
Avant Geared? http://www.avantgeared.com
https://plus.google.com/+Avantgeared
Permaculture: -- portal to an expanding global network of landtech pioneers
-- who are designing ecological land use systems with integrated elements for
synergy, sustainability, regeneration and enhanced nature-compatible human
habitat

------------------------------

Message: 5
Date: Sat, 25 Jan 2014 18:20:44 -0600
From: christopher nesbitt <christopher.nesbitt@mmrfbz.org>
Subject: [permaculture] 9th Annual PDC, MMRF, Belize, Feb 10-22nd
To: permaculture <permaculture@lists.ibiblio.org>
Message-ID: <7571FF21-5F54-4CB4-A0A6-D21647B2FFB2@mmrfbz.org>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252

This will be our 9th Annual Permaculture Design Course. MMRF has been
managed to agroforestry over the last 25 years and is one of the oldest
permaculture projects in Central America. Come take a PDC with great teachers
at a very well established permaculture project.


9th Annual Permaculture Design Course, February 10th through 22nd, 2014
February 10th through 22nd, 2014

Place: Maya Mountain Research Farm San Pedro Columbia, BELIZE

Instructors: Albert Bates, Marisha Auerbach, Nicole Foss and Christopher
Nesbitt with local guest instructors.

Cost:USD1250/Belize$2500 includes organic farm fresh meals, all course
materials and expeditions*, comfortable accommodation in the farm, and a
certificate of Permaculture Design upon completion of the course.

For Details, or to register, please contact Christopher at info(a)mmrfbz.org.

Through lecture, discussion, small groups, site visits and hands on
experience, participants will gain the tools to create sustainable,
ecologically based homes, farms, businesses and communities. Tucked into the
foothills of the Maya Mountains, two miles up river from the village of San
Pedro Columbia in southern Belize, Maya Mountain Research Farm is a working
demonstration farm and registered NGO that promotes sustainable agriculture,
appropriate technology and food security using permaculture principles and
applied biodiversity.

With over 25 years of organic management and conversion from an abandoned
cattle and citrus farm to a polyculture, MMRF is one of Central Americas
oldest permaculture farms. Students will get a chance to see decades worth of
design work applied at this venue. A fun video of the 2009 PDC is here, and
some footage from the 2010 PDC on Mexican TV, in Spanish is here, and here.

Teachers: Albert Bates is a former lawyer, paramedic, graphic artist and
author of eleven books on energy, environment and law, and produced two films
on ecovillages. He is the founder of the Ecovillage Network of the Americas
and was active in the creation of the Global Ecovillage Network. He has
lectured and universities and government agencies and worked on natural
buildings, village infrastructure, and permaculture landscapes on 6
continents. He has been teaching permaculture design courses since 1994.

Marisha Auerbach has been actively practicing, studying, and teaching
Permaculture in the Pacific Northwest for over a decade, specializing in food
production, biodiversity, seedsaving, ecology, and useful plants. Her
practical experience has been gained from living and working in both urban
and rural locations. She currently teaches permaculture courses at Oregon
State University, Pacific University, Bastyr University, and Portland
Community College. Marisha works with many organizations including The City
Repair Project, Aprovecho Education Center, Lost Valley Education Center,
Fertile Ground Community Center, and Planet Repair. Marisha holds an advanced
certificate in Permaculture Aid Work and has participated in permaculture
projects from the forests of Vietnam to the Rocky Mountains of the United
States to the stressed conditions of Haiti. She can be found online at
www.herbnwisdom.com.

Nicole Foss is Senior Editor of The Automatic Earth, a big-picture website.
Since January 2008, she and her writing partner have been chronicling and
interpreting the on-going global credit crunch as the most pressing aspect of
our current multi-faceted predicament. The site integrates finance, energy,
environment, psychology, population and real politik in order to explain why
we find ourselves in a state of crisis and what we can do about it. Nicole is
also an international speaker on energy and global finance. She has lectured
in hundreds of locations across North America, Europe, Australia and New
Zealand, and has made many media appearances in a variety of countries. In
addition, Nicole has been involved in teaching on permaculture design
certificate courses in Central America and Europe. Prior to the establishment
of The Automatic Earth, Nicole was Editor of The Oil Drum Canada, where she
wrote on peak oil and finance. She also ran the Agri-Energy Producers'
Association
of Ontario, where she focused on farm-based biogas projects, grid
connections for renewable energy and Feed-In Tariff policy development. While
living in the UK she was a Research Fellow at the Oxford Institute for Energy
Studies, where she specialized in nuclear safety in Eastern Europe and the
Former Soviet Union, and conducted research into electricity policy at the EU
level. She also has significant previous experience practicing as an
environmental consultant. Her academic qualifications include a BSc in
Biology from Carleton University in Canada (where she focused primarily on
neuroscience and psychology), a post-graduate diploma in air and water
pollution control, the common professional examination in law and an LLM in
international law in development from the University of Warwick in the UK.
She was granted the University Medal for the top science graduate in 1988 and
the law school prize for the top law school graduate in 1997.

Christopher Nesbitt is the founder and director of Maya Mountain Research Farm.
He is a farmer, and a pioneer in tropical agroforestry and permaculture, having
lived and studied agriculture in Belize since the mid 1980s. He has been engaged
in agroforestry, permaculture, renewable energy through his work on the farm and
elsewhere. Christopher worked for Green & Blacks, an organic chocolate
company, from 1997 to 2004 on issues related to organic certification, Fairtrade
certification and extension. He was a founding member of Belize Organic Producers
Association and has worked as a consultant for the Government of Belize?s
Ministry of Health, Ministry of Agriculture, Fisheries Department. He represented
Belize in workshops in Nicaragua, Panama, Costa Rica and Guatemala. He installs
photovoltaic and photovoltaic/wind hybrid systems in protected areas, schools,
village level photovoltaic water pumps, and teaches agroforestry.

A scholarship for this Permaculture Design Course is being offered by Maya
Mountain Research Farm in memory of Anne Bulford. Anne Bulford graduated from
Antioch College, was active in organic agriculture in Ohio, working at Ohio
Ecological Food and Farming Association, and died in November, 2008 of
cancer. She has two boys, Peter and Skyler, who live with Annes mother,
Sally. Applicants must be Belizean working in agriculture anywhere in Belize
or the communities adjacent to the Maya Mountains in Belize, and a farmer,
extension officer or community leader. To apply, please contact Christopher
Nesbitt with a description of the work you are doing, and a resume or CV and
explain why you would like to participate in this course.

*Fees for entry into National Parks or Archeological Reserves must be paid by
the students.





_____________________________
Christopher Nesbitt

Maya Mountain Research Farm
San Pedro Columbia, Toledo
PO 153 Punta Gorda Town, Toledo
BELIZE,
Central America

Country code 501-630-4386

www.mmrfbz.org
www.facebook.com/MayaMountainResearchFarm






------------------------------

Message: 6
Date: Sat, 25 Jan 2014 20:30:55 -0500
From: " Darrell E. Frey " <defrey@bioshelter.com>
Subject: Re: [permaculture] The Trouble with Permaculture
To: permaculture <permaculture@lists.ibiblio.org>, Michael Pilarski
<friendsofthetrees@yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <20140125203055.g34df5xpz448s8wo@webmail.bioshelter.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format="flowed"

Thanks Michael. Hawthorn has eatable leaves!. Who knew

Darrell E. Frey
Three Sisters Farm
defrey@bioshelter.com
www.bioshelter.com

Author; Bioshelter Market Garden: A Permaculture Farm. New Society
Publishing, 2011

On Sat, 25 Jan 2014 15:43:19 -0800 (PST), Michael Pilarski
<friendsofthetrees@yahoo.com> wrote:
Darrell,? thank you for the comments. I concur with you completely.?
I too read the article being talked about and didn't think it was a
bad article at all.? She lambasted permaculturists who don't know
how to garden, and rightly so.? She poked at some holes in the PC
ideology/dogmatism, and rightly so.? We should all be alert for
dogmatism and applying permaculture techniques blindly (such as every
pc design should include sheet mulch, a hugelkultur and a food
forest). I went and viewed the youtube she was criticizing of Mike
Feingold's pc garden in the UK.? Mike's pc site looked good to me
and his gardening . His dialogue was good.? I am not sure what she
was complaining about. Maybe it was because Mike looked untidy.
Perhaps it wasn't as productive as a wall to wall garden at peak
productivity.? But for the amount of time he put into it, I suspect
the cost/yield ratio was good.? I am perhaps biased since Mike
Feingold is a friend of mine and we taught a pdc in Nepal together.?
here is Mike Feingold's youtube if anyone wants to watch it, 9
minutes 37 seconds. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q3R1BZVnD4M


Michael Pilarski

?
Michael "Skeeter" Pilarski
Permaculture - Wildcrafting - Medicinal Herbs & Seeds


Sign up for my newsletter at www.friendsofthetrees.net
www.facebook.com/michael.skeeter.pilarski




On Saturday, January 25, 2014 11:55 AM, Darrell E. Frey
<defrey@bioshelter.com> wrote:
I have to confess I have had similar experiences as the article
describes, many times over the last 30 years. Many people have
visited my market garden farm, who, with a limited view of
Permaculture Design, offered numerous critiques? and questioned
where the "permaculture " was?
? I have been teaching permaculture design since 1987, with many
different associates, in various venues. We always teach permaculture
as a design system applied land, buildings,? businesses, farms,
schools lifestyles and regions and so on. Permaculture encompasses
all aspects of our human relationship to our planet and draws on many
disciplines and resources to achieve our goals consistant with our
ethics. As I heard Bill Mollison say in person in 1981, it is not how
you garden, it is just where you put the garden that makes a
permaculture design . As a permaculture design professional I help
clients, starting from where they are, to achieve their goals to live
a more ecologically sustainable lifestyle. Sometimes that includes a
forest garden, sometimes a biointensive garden, and generally a mix.
Some may mulch, sme may till. Generally they will do both in
different gardens.? Sometimes it is just about what they eat and
where they buy it, and what the do with "waste" But it also includes
time management, succession planning, resource conservation, and a
goal to achieve the yields the client seeks. So, back to the article
in question, I say bravo! Let us read such self critique with an open
mind and seek to broaden the view of our associates. The experience
the author describes predate the a forementioned Vlad by decades, and
comes from people short on experience . ? A deep reading of Bill
Mollison does not really promise no work gardening. Do not confuse
his promotion techniques with real advice. Yes, such presentation by
Mollison may have led to short sighted comprehension by novices? of
permaculture, but I do not think he, or anyone else I have taught
permaculture with promised a yield with no work. And we did not think
mollison really suggested that entirely. I met Bill Mollison in 1981
and again in 1990 when he spent a day at my fledgling farm. He wrote
in my copy of the Designer's Manual. "Great Work!" as he signed it
for me. Work indeed!

Darrell E. Frey
Three Sisters Farm
defrey@bioshelter.com
www.bioshelter.com

Author; Bioshelter Market Garden: A Permaculture Farm. New Society
Publishing, 2011

On Sat, 25 Jan 2014 06:18:54 -0500, Holger Hieronimi
<holger@tierramor.org> wrote:
Why Bad? I think this article is a good one, althought it is very
critical with some expressions of PC-
the author is not uninformed, since she aparently read though some
of > the basic literature plus seems to have considerable experience
in > organic food production... >
Its more than clear now that some of the "Mollsionisms" ("The >
designer becomes a recliner"/ "The problem is the solution"/ etc.) >
were great vehicles to draw atention back in the 80ies, but also >
helped to build "cult permaculture" & a cadre of enthusiastic PC >
illuminates described in the article. No problem...I have been one >
after my first PDC back in 1996....and I?m happy for that, since >
this motivated me (in my case) to actually try to establish some >
systems and realize that not everything works as well in realiity as
described th the PC Designers Manual, a greant book but definitly
not > the "bible" and/or ultimate expression of PC. >
Every course of some PC celebrities (Geoff Lawton is one prominent
example) adds some more to this number (and I think nobody in thios
group wants to qualify him as some body who gives "bad courses"),
and > its only through a few years of practice "on the ground", >
establishing designs, getting dirtty, maintainig developing systems,
producing food, experiencing how systems actually work and evolve >
over time in different climates & contexts, that the imaginative >
power of PC concepts get grounded. >
saludos desde Colombia (en este momento)

Holger


El 24/01/14 04:14, permaculture-request@lists.ibiblio.org escribi?:
The Trouble with Permaculture

http://www.resilience.org/stories/2014-01-23/the-trouble-with-permaculture
a very bad article; Vlad fodder, awful - just to see what the uninformed
are up to
-- Holger Hieronimi - holger@tierramor.org
TIERRAMOR - Dise?o Integrado
www.tierramor.org
Dise?o de sistemas ecol?gicos
Consultas y asesor?as
Facilitaci?n de conferencias, seminarios, cursos y talleres

_______________________________________________
permaculture mailing list
permaculture@lists.ibiblio.org
subscribe/unsubscribe|user config|list info|make a donation toward
list maintenance:
http://lists.ibiblio.org/mailman/listinfo/permaculture
message archives:? https://lists.ibiblio.org/sympa/arc/permaculture/
Google message archive search:
site: lists.ibiblio.org/pipermail/permaculture [searchstring]
Permaculture Institute USA http://permaculture.org
How to permaculture your urban lifestyle
http://www.ipermie.net Avant Geared? http://www.avantgeared.com
https://plus.google.com/+Avantgeared
Permaculture: -- portal to an expanding global network of landtech
pioneers -- who are designing ecological land use systems with >
integrated elements for synergy, sustainability, regeneration and >
enhanced nature-compatible human habitat


_______________________________________________
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subscribe/unsubscribe|user config|list info|make a donation toward
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Google message archive search:
site: lists.ibiblio.org/pipermail/permaculture [searchstring]
Permaculture Institute USA http://permaculture.org
How to permaculture your urban lifestyle
http://www.ipermie.net Avant Geared? http://www.avantgeared.com
https://plus.google.com/+Avantgeared
Permaculture: -- portal to an expanding global network of landtech
pioneers -- who are designing ecological land use systems with
integrated elements for synergy, sustainability, regeneration and
enhanced nature-compatible human habitat
_______________________________________________
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permaculture@lists.ibiblio.org
subscribe/unsubscribe|user config|list info|make a donation toward
list maintenance:
http://lists.ibiblio.org/mailman/listinfo/permaculture
message archives: https://lists.ibiblio.org/sympa/arc/permaculture/
Google message archive search:
site: lists.ibiblio.org/pipermail/permaculture [searchstring]
Permaculture Institute USA http://permaculture.org
How to permaculture your urban lifestyle
http://www.ipermie.net Avant Geared http://www.avantgeared.com
https://plus.google.com/+Avantgeared
Permaculture: -- portal to an expanding global network of landtech
pioneers -- who are designing ecological land use systems with
integrated elements for synergy, sustainability, regeneration and
enhanced nature-compatible human habitat


------------------------------

Message: 7
Date: Sat, 25 Jan 2014 19:22:25 -0800 (PST)
From: Koreen Brennan <cory8570@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: [permaculture] The Trouble with Permaculture
To: permaculture <permaculture@lists.ibiblio.org>
Message-ID:
<1390706545.88940.YahooMailNeo@web161004.mail.bf1.yahoo.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1

I think my main objection to the article is that the author seems to have interacted
with only the most ignorant armchair permaculturists and not looked at the positive.
It's not a very balanced article and comes across as a bit of sour grapes to me. ?I do
agree that there is dogma in permaculture and there are assumptions being made by some
in the movement. I agree we need to document our results and am happy that activity is
increasing. But I'm not ready to throw out the concept of "lazy gardening"
when I get such huge yields in the first year with little work from some small plots in
my yard, ?by using the old standbys of sheet mulch, hugulkulture, and unfamiliar (but
delicious) perennial and tropical vegetables (which are far more suited to my ecosystem
than lettuce and tomatoes). As Michael said, the work to yield ratio is very
attractive. Is it economically viable? It certainly cut down on my fresh food bill, but
I'm well aware that what I do in
my yard is not viable for a market garden. Using true cost accounting and measuring
inputs vs outputs, I made a very healthy net profit on it for the planet and my own
well being however. Am I "wasting good urban farm land?" My yard was Florida
sugar sand, til I transformed it with the local organic waste stream. Many urban plots
contain depleted and compacted soil not to mention heavy metals and chemicals - far
from ideal farm land! Am I growing greens and fruit instead of carbs? Guilty as
charged, but I eat greens daily. What would be the footprint for me to buy them instead
of grow them? I can buy rice in bulk once a month. I go to my garden daily for fresh
greens. Do I like food forests? Yes, love them (but in an urban area would call them
edible forest gardens as a more accurate term). Do I wait years for them to be
productive? That has never been my understanding of how to design an urban forest
garden, nor would it be the preferred way to do
commercial agroforestry when possible to do otherwise. Do I think that market
gardening is not "good permaculture?" I'm well aware of how much food my city
consumes and where a good chunk of that realistically is going to come from. We need
hundreds of market gardens that incorporate permaculture principles. ?I am doing my
part to make it easier for market gardeners to be successful. Meanwhile, I garden
because I love it and I love the yield from it. It offers balance and a regular
connection with the natural world.?

There is a place for both market gardeners and back yard food foresters. We
do not have to fight or put each other down. :-) ?There is so much good
happening amongst new urban permaculturists who haven't gardened much before
but nonetheless are turning their lawns into abundant jungles of edibles.
What are they doing right? How can that be improved upon? ? It's also really
exciting to see the work that Darrell Frey (I enjoyed your book, Darrell) and
other market gardeners and small farmers are doing as they combine the
principles of permaculture with their already substantial knowledge of
farming.?

Sometimes new designers pass judgment on the way I'm doing things too - I suppose it is
human nature to some degree. I just tell them - "I will be very interested in
seeing your project in 2-3 years. Be sure to let me know how it goes!" with a
friendly grin. :-) ?
?
?



On Saturday, January 25, 2014 8:31 PM, Darrell E. Frey
<defrey@bioshelter.com> wrote:
Thanks Michael. Hawthorn has eatable leaves!. Who knew

Darrell E. Frey
Three Sisters Farm
defrey@bioshelter.com
www.bioshelter.com

Author; Bioshelter Market Garden: A Permaculture Farm. New Society
Publishing, 2011

On Sat, 25 Jan 2014 15:43:19 -0800 (PST), Michael Pilarski
<friendsofthetrees@yahoo.com> wrote:
Darrell,? thank you for the comments. I concur with you completely.?
I too read the article being talked about and didn't think it was a
bad article at all.? She lambasted permaculturists who don't know
how to garden, and rightly so.? She poked at some holes in the PC
ideology/dogmatism, and rightly so.? We should all be alert for
dogmatism and applying permaculture techniques blindly (such as every
pc design should include sheet mulch, a hugelkultur and a food
forest). I went and viewed the youtube she was criticizing of Mike
Feingold's pc garden in the UK.? Mike's pc site looked good to me
and his gardening . His dialogue was good.? I am not sure what she
was complaining about. Maybe it was because Mike looked untidy.
Perhaps it wasn't as productive as a wall to wall garden at peak
productivity.? But for the amount of time he put into it, I suspect
the cost/yield ratio was good.? I am perhaps biased since Mike
Feingold is a friend of mine and we taught a pdc in Nepal together.?
here is Mike Feingold's youtube if anyone wants to watch it, 9
minutes 37 seconds. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q3R1BZVnD4M


Michael Pilarski

?
Michael "Skeeter" Pilarski
Permaculture - Wildcrafting - Medicinal Herbs & Seeds


Sign up for my newsletter at www.friendsofthetrees.net
www.facebook.com/michael.skeeter.pilarski




On Saturday, January 25, 2014 11:55 AM, Darrell E. Frey
<defrey@bioshelter.com> wrote:
? I have to confess I have had similar experiences as the article
describes, many times over the last 30 years. Many people have
visited my market garden farm, who, with a limited view of
Permaculture Design, offered numerous critiques? and questioned
where the "permaculture " was?
? I have been teaching permaculture design since 1987, with many
different associates, in various venues. We always teach permaculture
as a design system applied land, buildings,? businesses, farms,
schools lifestyles and regions and so on. Permaculture encompasses
all aspects of our human relationship to our planet and draws on many
disciplines and resources to achieve our goals consistant with our
ethics. As I heard Bill Mollison say in person in 1981, it is not how
you garden, it is just where you put the garden that makes a
permaculture design . As a permaculture design professional I help
clients, starting from where they are, to achieve their goals to live
a more ecologically sustainable lifestyle. Sometimes that includes a
forest garden, sometimes a biointensive garden, and generally a mix.
Some may mulch, sme may till. Generally they will do both in
different gardens.? Sometimes it is just about what they eat and
where they buy it, and what the do with "waste" But it also includes
time management, succession planning, resource conservation, and a
goal to achieve the yields the client seeks. So, back to the article
in question, I say bravo! Let us read such self critique with an open
mind and seek to broaden the view of our associates. The experience
the author describes predate the a forementioned Vlad by decades, and
comes from people short on experience . ? A deep reading of Bill
Mollison does not really promise no work gardening. Do not confuse
his promotion techniques with real advice. Yes, such presentation by
Mollison may have led to short sighted comprehension by novices? of
permaculture, but I do not think he, or anyone else I have taught
permaculture with promised a yield with no work. And we did not think
mollison really suggested that entirely. I met Bill Mollison in 1981
and again in 1990 when he spent a day at my fledgling farm. He wrote
in my copy of the Designer's Manual. "Great Work!" as he signed it
for me. Work indeed!

Darrell E. Frey
Three Sisters Farm
defrey@bioshelter.com
www.bioshelter.com

Author; Bioshelter Market Garden: A Permaculture Farm. New Society
Publishing, 2011

On Sat, 25 Jan 2014 06:18:54 -0500, Holger Hieronimi
<holger@tierramor.org> wrote:
Why Bad? I think this article is a good one, althought it is very
critical with some expressions of PC-
the author is not uninformed, since she aparently read though some
of > the basic literature plus seems to have considerable experience
in > organic food production... >
Its more than clear now that some of the "Mollsionisms" ("The >
designer becomes a recliner"/ "The problem is the solution"/ etc.) >
were great vehicles to draw atention back in the 80ies, but also >
helped to build "cult permaculture" & a cadre of enthusiastic PC >
illuminates described in the article. No problem...I have been one >
after my first PDC back in 1996....and I?m happy for that, since >
this motivated me (in my case) to actually try to establish some >
systems and realize that not everything works as well in realiity as
described th the PC Designers Manual, a greant book but definitly
not > the "bible" and/or ultimate expression of PC. >
Every course of some PC celebrities (Geoff Lawton is one prominent
example) adds some more to this number (and I think nobody in thios
group wants to qualify him as some body who gives "bad courses"),
and > its only through a few years of practice "on the ground", >
establishing designs, getting dirtty, maintainig developing systems,
producing food, experiencing how systems actually work and evolve >
over time in different climates & contexts, that the imaginative >
power of PC concepts get grounded. >
saludos desde Colombia (en este momento)

Holger


El 24/01/14 04:14, permaculture-request@lists.ibiblio.org escribi?:
The Trouble with Permaculture

http://www.resilience.org/stories/2014-01-23/the-trouble-with-permaculture
a very bad article; Vlad fodder, awful - just to see what the uninformed
are up to
-- Holger Hieronimi - holger@tierramor.org
TIERRAMOR - Dise?o Integrado
www.tierramor.org
Dise?o de sistemas ecol?gicos
Consultas y asesor?as
Facilitaci?n de conferencias, seminarios, cursos y talleres

_______________________________________________
permaculture mailing list
permaculture@lists.ibiblio.org
subscribe/unsubscribe|user config|list info|make a donation toward
list maintenance:
http://lists.ibiblio.org/mailman/listinfo/permaculture
message archives:? https://lists.ibiblio.org/sympa/arc/permaculture/
Google message archive search:
site: lists.ibiblio.org/pipermail/permaculture [searchstring]
Permaculture Institute USA http://permaculture.org
How to permaculture your urban lifestyle
http://www.ipermie.net Avant Geared? http://www.avantgeared.com
https://plus.google.com/+Avantgeared
Permaculture: -- portal to an expanding global network of landtech
pioneers -- who are designing ecological land use systems with >
integrated elements for synergy, sustainability, regeneration and >
enhanced nature-compatible human habitat

_______________________________________________
permaculture mailing list
permaculture@lists.ibiblio.org
subscribe/unsubscribe|user config|list info|make a donation toward
list maintenance:
http://lists.ibiblio.org/mailman/listinfo/permaculture
message archives:? https://lists.ibiblio.org/sympa/arc/permaculture/
Google message archive search:
site: lists.ibiblio.org/pipermail/permaculture [searchstring]
Permaculture Institute USA http://permaculture.org
How to permaculture your urban lifestyle
http://www.ipermie.net Avant Geared? http://www.avantgeared.com
https://plus.google.com/+Avantgeared
Permaculture: -- portal to an expanding global network of landtech
pioneers -- who are designing ecological land use systems with
integrated elements for synergy, sustainability, regeneration and
enhanced nature-compatible human habitat
_______________________________________________
permaculture mailing list
permaculture@lists.ibiblio.org
subscribe/unsubscribe|user config|list info|make a donation toward
list maintenance:
http://lists.ibiblio.org/mailman/listinfo/permaculture
message archives:? https://lists.ibiblio.org/sympa/arc/permaculture/
Google message archive search:
site: lists.ibiblio.org/pipermail/permaculture [searchstring]
Permaculture Institute USA http://permaculture.org
How to permaculture your urban lifestyle
http://www.ipermie.net Avant Geared? http://www.avantgeared.com
https://plus.google.com/+Avantgeared
Permaculture: -- portal to an expanding global network of landtech
pioneers -- who are designing ecological land use systems with
integrated elements for synergy, sustainability, regeneration and
enhanced nature-compatible human habitat
_______________________________________________
permaculture mailing list
permaculture@lists.ibiblio.org
subscribe/unsubscribe|user config|list info|make a donation toward list
maintenance:
http://lists.ibiblio.org/mailman/listinfo/permaculture
message archives:? https://lists.ibiblio.org/sympa/arc/permaculture/
Google message archive search:
site: lists.ibiblio.org/pipermail/permaculture [searchstring]
Permaculture Institute USA http://permaculture.org
How to permaculture your urban lifestyle
http://www.ipermie.net
Avant Geared? http://www.avantgeared.com
https://plus.google.com/+Avantgeared
Permaculture: -- portal to an expanding global network of landtech pioneers
-- who are designing ecological land use systems with integrated elements for
synergy, sustainability, regeneration and enhanced nature-compatible human
habitat

------------------------------

_______________________________________________
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subscribe/unsubscribe|user config|list info|make a donation toward list
maintenance:
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Google message archive search:
site: lists.ibiblio.org/pipermail/permaculture [searchstring]
Permaculture Institute USA http://permaculture.org
How to permaculture your urban lifestyle
http://www.ipermie.net
Avant Geared http://www.avantgeared.com
https://plus.google.com/+Avantgeared
Permaculture: -- portal to an expanding global network of landtech pioneers
-- who are designing ecological land use systems with integrated elements for
synergy, sustainability, regeneration and enhanced nature-compatible human
habitat

End of permaculture Digest, Vol 132, Issue 26
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