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permaculture - Re: [permaculture] permaculture Digest, Vol 91, Issue 51

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Subject: permaculture

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  • From: "Nicholas Roberts, Permaculture.coop" <permaculturecoop@gmail.com>
  • To: permaculture@lists.ibiblio.org
  • Subject: Re: [permaculture] permaculture Digest, Vol 91, Issue 51
  • Date: Tue, 14 Sep 2010 10:22:21 -0700

Toby,

many look to you for leadership and guidance and I therefore its an
uncomfortable duty to challenge that authority

I am profoundly ignorant of what you do, yes, and all I have to go on is
your writings, which I imagine is representative of your work ?


I have absolutely no doubt your technical work is first class, your home
gardening book is excellent

but your political economy has none of the depth or subtlety of Mollison
("permaculture is more than a gardening system") or any of the grassroots
activists I have met doing permaculture or involved in other activism that I
have filmed or aggregated


as far as I can tell you are not engaging any of the powerful lobbies like
rural conservatives or agricultural movements like Doherty is doing with
RegenAG http://permaculture.tv/?s=regenag

you are not doing extreme permaculture in disaster or war zones like Uganda
or Aceh like Steve Cran http://permaculture.tv/?s=steve+cran

you are not engaged in international and interfaith public diplomacy like
Geoff Lawton in Jordan, Palestine and the Middle East

you are not building international activist and grassroots networks like
Tony Andersen of Klimaforum http://permaculture.tv/?s=tony+andersen

engaging royalty or dispossed farmers like Ali Shariff in the Amazon or
Africa http://permaculture.tv/?s=ali+sharif

young grassroots activists with a serious political economy
http://permaculture.tv/liberation-permaculture-design-course/



instead, you have a new age flat earth political economy like Holmgren or
Rob Hopkins, you live in a green ghetto in the heart of Empire and you
confuse your own general comfort and affluence with the general state of
your own country men and woman and more generally the very real desperation
and increasing anger in the world.


The Tea Party in the USA (and globally such as India) and the rise of other
ultra-right polpulist and crypto fascism is driven by this liberal
disengagement. In India there is more political and economic activism
http://permaculture.tv/freedom-ahead/


The general level of awareness, especially amongst the so-called elite in
the USA, the understanding of political economy is retarded, or is it you
just dont care ?


in Australia a renaissance in permaculture in the mainstream with a
sophistication and organisation http://permaculture.tv/?s=apc10 that
hopefully will one day come to the USA (I was going to say America, but I
think the El Salvadorian farmer-to-farmer teaching model is far more
sophisticated politically and culturally
http://permaculture.tv/tag/el-salvador/ )


fortunately permaculture has been an international peace movement from the
beginning and I think it will survive despite the implicit imperialism in
some of permaculture and transition's big name "leaders"






> "Let's not talk to each other like this" - Right on and
> Amen.....Please/Thanks
>
> Toby, you are so right on in what you say and, from personal experience I
> can say, even more right on in what you do and the incredibly-appreciated
> multiple places and ways and audiences where you do it. I'm glad that you
> seem to have a ducks back for this to roll off of and a tough enough skin
> with which to blunt the arrows. Bless you for what you do, for all that you
> teach, and all that we learn from you.
>
> I am going to try to avoid reading any more on this thread. It is souring
> me
> on the whole, mostly interesting/civil listserve. The shame of it to me is
> that the core of Nicholas' message is right on - one at a time, individuals
> trained and converted can influence organizations over time, etc. The core
> is right on - but the 1st paragraph and last sentence are off-topic,
> inappropriate, very un-necessary, and detract from the message and the
> communication.
>
> Let's do stop talking like this to each other, please. Perhaps it is time
> for some moderating/editing/ rejecting on the part of the listserve
> moderators or the listserve participants at large.
>
> Dick Pierce
> On Wed, Aug 25, 2010 at 11:39 AM, Toby Hemenway <toby@patternliteracy.com
> >wrote:
>
> > Nicholas,
> >
> > You are profoundly ignorant of where and how I work (I'm on the Blackfeet
> > Reservation at the moment) and your angry assumptions don' help anything
> .
> > Let's not talk to each other like this.
> >
> > Toby
> > http://patternliteracy.com
> >
>




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