Skip to Content.
Sympa Menu

permaculture - Re: [permaculture] permaculture Digest, Vol 91, Issue 51

permaculture@lists.ibiblio.org

Subject: permaculture

List archive

Chronological Thread  
  • From: Lawrence London <lfljvenaura@gmail.com>
  • To: permaculture <permaculture@lists.ibiblio.org>
  • Subject: Re: [permaculture] permaculture Digest, Vol 91, Issue 51
  • Date: Tue, 14 Sep 2010 17:09:26 -0400

On Tue, Sep 14, 2010 at 1:22 PM, Nicholas Roberts, Permaculture.coop <
permaculturecoop@gmail.com> wrote:

> Toby,
>
> many look to you for leadership and guidance and I therefore its an
> uncomfortable duty to challenge that authority
>
>
Why is there a need or is it important to challenge Toby's work?
If you have a problem then why don't you do work similar to his and do an
even better job?
Why not offer something different, whatever you think is missing?
Write a book. Teach courses. Do consultation.

I am profoundly ignorant of what you do, yes, and all I have to go on is
> your writings, which I imagine is representative of your work ?
>
>
> Then what qualifies you to criticize Toby's outreach work?

I have absolutely no doubt your technical work is first class, your home
> gardening book is excellent
>
> but your political economy has none of the depth or subtlety of Mollison
> ("permaculture is more than a gardening system") or any of the grassroots
> activists I have met doing permaculture or involved in other activism that
> I
> have filmed or aggregated
>

Different from Mollison, maybe. He has taken Mollison's teachings to new
heights.

>
>
> as far as I can tell you are not engaging any of the powerful lobbies like
> rural conservatives or agricultural movements like Doherty is doing with
> RegenAG http://permaculture.tv/?s=regenag
>
> you are not engaged in international and interfaith public diplomacy like
> Geoff Lawton in Jordan, Palestine and the Middle East
>
> engaging royalty or dispossed farmers like Ali Shariff in the Amazon or
> Africa http://permaculture.tv/?s=ali+sharif
>
>
Oh, well. That sure is a small list of folks involved in the field of
permaculture, working internationally.


> instead, you have a new age flat earth political economy like Holmgren or
> Rob Hopkins, you live in a green ghetto in the heart of Empire and you
> confuse your own general comfort and affluence with the general state of
> your own country men and woman and more generally the very real desperation
> and increasing anger in the world.
>
> You're so tactful!
And where do you live, Nicholas? How do you make your living? Do you work
for a living?
Depend on grants and donations?


>
> The Tea Party in the USA (and globally such as India) and the rise of other
> ultra-right polpulist and crypto fascism is driven by this liberal
> disengagement. In India there is more political and economic activism
> http://permaculture.tv/freedom-ahead/
>
>
Wild unfounded conspiracy theory.


> The general level of awareness, especially amongst the so-called elite in
> the USA, the understanding of political economy is retarded, or is it you
> just dont care ?
>

You're so tactful!

>
>
> in Australia a renaissance in permaculture in the mainstream with a
> sophistication and organisation http://permaculture.tv/?s=apc10 that
> hopefully will one day come to the USA (I was going to say America, but I
> think the El Salvadorian farmer-to-farmer teaching model is far more
> sophisticated politically and culturally
> http://permaculture.tv/tag/el-salvador/ )
>
>
> fortunately permaculture has been an international peace movement from the
> beginning and I think it will survive despite the implicit imperialism in
> some of permaculture and transition's big name "leaders"
>
> Interesting but completely insulting, tactless, unappreciative and untrue!
Give us a list of those leaders of the permaculture and transition movements
whom you think are imperialists. I'll bet you wuss out of that one.

You have a lot to contribute Nicholas. Don't compromise that by being so
tactless and contentious.
It falls on deaf ears.

>
>
>




Archive powered by MHonArc 2.6.24.

Top of Page