permaculture

["Pierre Marx" <pierre@dalyellup-permaculture.com.au>]

Nick,

> but your political economy has none of the depth or subtlety of Mollison
> ("permaculture is more than a gardening system") or any of the grassroots
> activists I have met doing permaculture or involved in other activism that 
> I
> have filmed or aggregated

I can do with both quite frankly:  the expert writer/gardener giving and the 
grassroots activist getting his/her hands dirty in some African orphanage or 
whatever.  I gain inspiration from both.  Therefore, I recognise that if I'm 
looking for inspiration on community building, politics, economics etc. I'd 
be better off putting down Toby's book and contacting someone else.

> as far as I can tell you are not engaging any of the powerful lobbies like

I'm helping out on our local transition initiative 
(http://www.transitionbunbury.org.au) and I started an urban gardening group 
through which I can hopefully get more people to grow food locally and rely 
less on chemical inputs in their endeavours, etc.  None of these qualify as 
"powerful lobbies"...

Would you say all of that is in vain?  Are you suggesting that I should not 
be engaging with these ninkumpoop groups and sign up my time/energy with 
somebody else instead?  I'm not trying to be funny here, but as a budding 
permie I am looking for mentorship and direction.  What ACTION would you 
suggest to somebody in my shoes?

> rural conservatives or agricultural movements like Doherty is doing with
> RegenAG http://permaculture.tv/?s=regenag
>
> you are not doing extreme permaculture in disaster or war zones like 
> Uganda
> or Aceh like Steve Cran http://permaculture.tv/?s=steve+cran
>
> you are not engaged in international and interfaith public diplomacy like
> Geoff Lawton in Jordan, Palestine and the Middle East
>
> you are not building international activist and grassroots networks like
> Tony Andersen of Klimaforum http://permaculture.tv/?s=tony+andersen
>
> engaging royalty or dispossed farmers like Ali Shariff in the Amazon or
> Africa http://permaculture.tv/?s=ali+sharif
>
> young grassroots activists with a serious political economy
> http://permaculture.tv/liberation-permaculture-design-course/

Yes, all of them are doing admirable work.  But if Toby, me or the next 
person is not QUITE doing the same, does that make me/us lesser human 
beings/permaculturists?  Or are we not all part of the bigger picture that 
contributes, in a miriad of ways towards the common good?  Or do you think 
it is necessary that we all leave our families at home while we do battle 
with malaria in Uganda?

I honestly need to know, as I have been toying with the idea of working in 
Africa or Latin America...

> instead, you have a new age flat earth political economy like Holmgren or
> Rob Hopkins, you live in a green ghetto in the heart of Empire and you
> confuse your own general comfort and affluence with the general state of
> your own country men and woman and more generally the very real 
> desperation
> and increasing anger in the world.

Have you confronted David or Rob directly about their "new age flat earth 
political economics"?  Just asking.

As before, I'm holding your statements as mirrors in front of myself to gain 
a better insight into where I'm going with my life as a permie, and where I 
ought to be going.  Would you say we should abandon efforts like 
Transition/relocatisation initiatives in the 1st world and all move to the 
3rd world to copy a Steve Cran, Robyn Francis, Rowe Morrow etc.?  See my 
comment above.

You are obviously not implying something as simplistic as that, so would you 
give me an idea of the sort of ACTION you'd like to see?

> The Tea Party in the USA (and globally such as India) and the rise of 
> other
> ultra-right polpulist and crypto fascism is driven by this liberal
> disengagement. In India there is more political and economic activism
> http://permaculture.tv/freedom-ahead/
>
> The general level of awareness, especially amongst the so-called elite in
> the USA, the understanding of political economy is retarded, or is it you
> just dont care ?

Let's see what happens Down Under...  I live in the country with the biggest 
average house size, the most CO2 emitted per head, a polical system in dire 
need of an overhaul, a state government that is about to disown an 
Aboriginal community so they can rake in the royalties they'll be getting 
from Woodside's gas extraction, etc.  So I can identify wiht your statement, 
in a way at least.

At the same time your accusation(s) towards Toby in person does not serve 
any real purpose, not to me at least.  Please discuss these sorts of things 
with him in person.

> in Australia a renaissance in permaculture in the mainstream with a
> sophistication and organisation http://permaculture.tv/?s=apc10 that

Well organised, very exciting etc.  BUT note quite mainstream yet.  Far from 
it.

> fortunately permaculture has been an international peace movement from the
> beginning and I think it will survive despite the implicit imperialism in
> some of permaculture and transition's big name "leaders"

Sorry, you lost me.  Unless you've engaged with these "leaders" directly, 
you flinging these wild statements on this public forum is not going to make 
a difference at all.  Plus, if you can't back up these statements with 
credible examples, you detract A LOT from your own credibilility.

Please rise above that, let go of the wild accusations and assumptions about 
other people / the depth of their characters / their motives, and give us 
some ideas for action so we can collectively care MORE for the earth & 
people and developing surpluses so we can share more.

Best,
Pierre