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  • From: "Pierre Marx" <pierre@dalyellup-permaculture.com.au>
  • To: "permaculture" <permaculture@lists.ibiblio.org>
  • Subject: Re: [permaculture] Enough!!!
  • Date: Wed, 15 Sep 2010 16:20:12 +0800

Hi Dan,

Just to clarify, I'm not advocating Nick gets kicked from this list. In fact, I decided against adding his email address to my blocked sender list on Outlook, however much I was tempted to do it. Even he is doing great work which deserves acknowledgement - his website is great!

I totally agree that to expect the group to be making friendly chit-chat and shoulder slap all the time is quite unrealistic. I'm not asking for that. But I am asking for civility. Shouting matches and name calling rarely gets one anywhere. "But nobody responsed..." you reckon. I have an idea! Let's give civility a try and maybe those responses might be more forthcoming?

Or is that too much to ask?

Cheers,
Pierre

----- Original Message ----- From: "danmk" <dankablaoui@gmail.com>
To: "permaculture" <permaculture@lists.ibiblio.org>
Sent: Wednesday, September 15, 2010 12:18 PM
Subject: Re: [permaculture] Enough!!!


But nobody responded...

I've only barely met Toby Hemenway, and I have to say I was really
impressed. I put a lot of stock into the impression I got then. He
seemed to me a careful, humble, intelligent person. I liked the effect
he had on the group I was with at the time. I didn't realize he was a
big shot or whatever at that point - it wasn't more than a few months
that I had heard of PC.

Still, it's distressing that Nicholas' email could be so easily cast
aside. Leaving the list? Blocking him (how are you supposed to know
if he has decided to "rise above")? Not one of us has bothered to
comment on what he meant. I suppose it feels as though the National
Guard horse has been beaten badly enough, and honestly I have really
appreciated seeing some of the more practically oriented discussion
going on lately. I agree wholeheartedly with Pierre in that you all
are contributing rather unknowingly, and I'd like to acknowledge that
again so you do. Y'all are educating me better than just about
anybody.

Personally, I am interested in generating a "political economy". We
have the tools to design one, and it's a lacking that is bothering me
as I learn and work with permaculture concepts day to day. I don't
have a permanent landbase, garden, bioregion, community, etc. I try to
practice the design concepts in other ways, so reading the general
literature is usually an act of translation. Still gardening though.
It's always gardening to me, and I have to admit I'm in love with that
cluster of ideas.

Who put that subject line designing a movement? There will be no raps
without design, by the way, that can be assured. I am designing my
life according to the wisdom obtained here more and more. So how can
these strategies be used to grow into a larger garden? It seems like
that's what Nicholas' links were getting at. The earth has pressure
points that could use addressing. It seems like a fair line of
criticism to me, and is something I remain personally torn.

We have arranged a powerful tools drawn from deep insight into our
primary realities. Where are the words that elucidate the spirit
behind what that means? Every challenge from a disgruntled reader on
this list is an opportunity to build.

Opting out of a good faith internal conflict weakens the group. Did he
really go too far? Answer. If not Toby somebody else.
Outrage/silence doesn't do anything except reveal a weakness.
Outrage/silence isn't exactly concession, but it is lame.

Dan


On Sep 14, 2010, at 8:48 PM, "Pierre Marx"
<pierre@dalyellup-permaculture.com.au> wrote:

Nicholas,

You have much to contribute, but this is not the way to do it. I'm sure you can rise above these unproductive rants. Until such time, I will add you to my blocked senders list. I'm sure I won't be the only one.

Thanks to others, including LL, Darren, Toby, Paul etc. etc. etc. for the positive contibutions you are (unknowingly) making to my learning. If it wasn't for remembering -- and deeply appreciating -- the efforts of you all to volunteer your time in service of the PC community at large, I will have followed Kerrick's example and unsubscribed today.

Towards harmony and respect,

Pierre
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