permaculture

["Pierre Marx" <pierre@dalyellup-permaculture.com.au>]

Hi Dan,

Just to clarify, I'm not advocating Nick gets kicked from this list.  In 
fact, I decided against adding his email address to my blocked sender list 
on Outlook, however much I was tempted to do it.  Even he is doing great 
work which deserves acknowledgement - his website is great!

I totally agree that to expect the group to be making friendly chit-chat and 
shoulder slap all the time is quite unrealistic.  I'm not asking for that. 
But I am asking for civility.  Shouting matches and name calling rarely gets 
one anywhere.  "But nobody responsed..." you reckon.  I have an idea!  Let's 
give civility a try and maybe those responses might be more forthcoming?

Or is that too much to ask?

Cheers,
Pierre

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "danmk" <dankablaoui@gmail.com>
To: "permaculture" <permaculture@lists.ibiblio.org>
Sent: Wednesday, September 15, 2010 12:18 PM
Subject: Re: [permaculture] Enough!!!


> But nobody responded...
>
> I've only barely met Toby Hemenway, and I have to say I was really
> impressed.  I put a lot of stock into the impression I got then.  He
> seemed to me a careful, humble, intelligent person. I liked the effect
> he had on the group I was with at the time.  I didn't realize he was a
> big shot or whatever at that point - it wasn't more than a few months
> that I had heard of PC.
>
> Still, it's distressing that Nicholas' email could be so easily cast
> aside.  Leaving the list?  Blocking him (how are you supposed to know
> if he has decided to "rise above")?  Not one of us has bothered to
> comment on what he meant.  I suppose it feels as though the National
> Guard horse has been beaten badly enough, and honestly I have really
> appreciated seeing some of the more practically oriented discussion
> going on lately.  I agree wholeheartedly with Pierre in that you all
> are contributing rather unknowingly, and I'd like to acknowledge that
> again so you do.  Y'all are educating me better than just about
> anybody.
>
> Personally, I am interested in generating a "political economy".   We
> have the tools to design one, and it's a lacking that is bothering me
> as I learn and work with permaculture concepts day to day.  I don't
> have a permanent landbase, garden, bioregion, community, etc. I try to
> practice the design concepts in other ways, so reading the general
> literature is usually an act of translation.  Still gardening though.
> It's always gardening to me, and I have to admit I'm in love with that
> cluster of ideas.
>
> Who put that subject line designing a movement?  There will be no raps
> without design, by the way, that can be assured.  I am designing my
> life according to the wisdom obtained here more and more.  So how can
> these strategies be used to grow into a larger garden?  It seems like
> that's what Nicholas' links were getting at.  The earth has pressure
> points that could use addressing.  It seems like a fair line of
> criticism to me, and is something I remain personally torn.
>
> We have arranged a powerful tools drawn from deep insight into our
> primary realities.  Where are the words that elucidate the spirit
> behind what that means?  Every challenge from a disgruntled reader on
> this list is an opportunity to build.
>
> Opting out of a good faith internal conflict weakens the group. Did he
> really go too far?  Answer.  If not Toby somebody else.
> Outrage/silence doesn't do anything except reveal a weakness.
> Outrage/silence isn't exactly concession, but it is lame.
>
> Dan
>
>
> On Sep 14, 2010, at 8:48 PM, "Pierre Marx"
> <pierre@dalyellup-permaculture.com.au> wrote:
>
> > Nicholas,
> >
> > You have much to contribute, but this is not the way to do it.  I'm sure 
> > you can rise above these unproductive rants.  Until such time, I will add 
> > you to my blocked senders list.  I'm sure I won't be the only one.
> >
> > Thanks to others, including LL, Darren, Toby, Paul etc. etc. etc. for the 
> > positive contibutions you are (unknowingly) making to my learning.  If it 
> > wasn't for remembering -- and deeply appreciating -- the efforts of you 
> > all to volunteer your time in service of the PC community at large, I 
> > will have followed Kerrick's example and unsubscribed today.
> >
> > Towards harmony and respect,
> >
> > Pierre
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