permaculture

[Tripp Tibbetts <slowfoodguy@yahoo.com>]

We already have the rats.  Might as well have the walnuts too.  The rats come 
for the nuts of a mature pecan at the back, very low quality nuts 
unfortunately, and they are still not convinced that this is really our house 
now!  I had high hopes when I first saw the towering tree, perfect location 
too - middle west of north property line.  It might have to come down one of 
these days, (for cob oven fuel!), but not before I get something else 
established.
 
We had walnuts in Washington, and most of your responses have come from 
California.  Is the muggy southeast just not the place for English/Persian 
walnuts?  I would say I'm leaning toward J. nigra at this point, which has 
fine oily nutmeat, just requires a fine macho nutcracker too!!
 
So guild discussion:  I have, for all practical purposes, 4 mature 
sugarberries around my 3000 s.f. goat and turkey paddock at the back of our 
lot.  Originally I planned for them, or 2 of the most obstructive of them 
anyway, to come down to make way for fruit trees around the paddock.  
Observation has pointed out, however, that my goats LOVE the sugarberry 
leaves, that they rain down constantly on them all summer no matter which way 
the wind blows, and that they provide some much needed dappled shade for the 
paddock (you don't say).  So I want to save myself a lot of effort, money, 
and imported feed by keeping them for the goats, as they are the priority in 
this particular system.
 
But that brings up a couple of questions: Do sugarberries (Celtis laevigata) 
behave in a walnut guild the same way hackberry does?  I know hackberry is a 
synonym for sugarberry, but the hackberries discussed in Toby's book are 
subcanopy shrubs, and these are 50' giants with a 20" dbh.  They would be the 
overstory for decades, probably until they die.  The herbaceous layer back 
there when we bought the property was a pure stand of Vinca major (which is 
toxic to goats, they won't touch it, but apparently fine for chickens, 
turkeys and guineas, just fyi), so apparently the sugarberries were doing 
their grass-suppressing duty.  I would obviously like to grow grass and 
legumes inside the paddock for the goats, and it would seemingly require the 
simplest of biological transmutations to neutralize that allelopathic leaf 
fall in a goat's rumen.  Not a single leaf within reach escapes their 
attention, so I think that part is covered...unless I'm
 mistaken, and the allelopathy manifests itself from the rhizosphere and not 
just the leaf fall.  
 
But the remaining question arises from the change of plans.  If sugarberry 
behaves the same way as hackberry, and we are leaving them all in place to 
feed the goats, is the walnut element required to neutralize the Celtis toxin 
outside of the paddock so that I can grow the other members of the guild?  
Added already, or on my to-add list, are mulberries, elderberries, wolfberry 
(goji), black locust, goumi, and blackberries on the outer edge toward the 
house (we just don't have even remotely enough chill hours for the remaining 
currants in Tim Murphy's design, more's the pity).  I would love to have the 
black walnuts, but I know they grow very fast and pack a deadly juglone punch 
without the appropriate hackberry symbiont, so I want to get this one right.
 
Thanks to everyone who has assisted so far with this line of questions, and 
I'm looking forward to hashing out the rest of this soon!
 
Tripp



The best fertilizer is the gardener's shadow.
-Chinese proverb
 




>From forestgarden@gvtc.com  Wed Sep  8 19:22:14 2010
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Hi Loren, Lawrence, and everyone who is tagging along.

I am going to order a set of 10 and start experimenting with them.  I'll
need to organize some measurement tools also for tracking the soil temp
and moisture levels.  I'll use the waterboxx as a baseline and build
some of the other designs of recycled materials and see what is most
effective.  And if it is effective enough....    I'll also start with
the waterboxx recommended research procedure and take off from there as
the experiment unfolds.  thier program looks farily solid and seems to
be a good starting point for some good research.

If nothing else, this will take my research a step further with more
measurements and monitoring of what is going on.

I am very passionate about rediscovering and implementing the long term
cycle of perennial polycultures as I feel it humanity's best practice
going forward.  I wish I were younger....

Thanks everyone!  Oh I found the following article about the waterboxx
online.  Looks like they've done some experiementation in the Sahara.
Hmmm,  I would like to see more hard data.

Marjory


*WaterBoxx Grows Forest in the Desert*

/New Dutch Invention Wins Prestigious Innovation Technology Award/

A new Dutch breakthrough invention makes it possible to reforest large
desert and rocky areas on the planet in the coming years. Experiments in
the Sahara desert have shown that the WaterBoxx allows trees to grow
under harsh conditions and can provide them with sufficient water.

The invention of the Dutch businessman and inventor Pieter Hoff has won
the prestigious Beta Dragons Award during the annual Flying Dutchman
2008, Science & Technology Summit in Amsterdam. A board of scientists
and captains of industry proclaimed his design to be the most promising
and innovative project. Philips CEO Gerard Kleisterlee handed him the
corresponding amount of 10.000 euro.

The WaterBoxx looks like a plastic, rectangular bucket, with a hole in
the centre, allowing the tree to be planted in the soil. The
sophistically designed top catches water from condensation at night.
Together with the rainwater from rare showers, it is distributed in
small doses to the tree inside. Additionally the WaterBoxx prevents
water in the top soil layers from evaporating and protects the roots
against sun, wind, weeds or rodents. After a year the tree is strong
enough to grow by itself and the WaterBoxx can be removed.

"Trees can grow in arid areas but are not able to germinate. The
WaterBoxx gives them a head start", Hoff explains.

Recently, he successfully tested his invention in de Moroccan Sahara. 90
Percent of the trees planted with a WaterBoxx were alive and green after
a few months in the extreme hot summer. 90 Percent of the trees planted
without the WaterBoxx died however, although they had been watered every
week.

Hoff is convinced that, if the right species are planted, large parts of
the earth can be reforested, without sacrificing agricultural land. He
is seeking investors to apply his invention in the Middle East, India,
Africa and other arid territories. Hoff: "If we can reforest 2 billion
hectares, the trees consume more CO2 than men produces and the whole CO2
problem will be solved." His WaterBoxx will be available from July 1, 2009.

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