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  • From: loren luyendyk <loren@sborganics.com>
  • To: <permaculture@lists.ibiblio.org>
  • Subject: Re: [permaculture] waterboxx
  • Date: Sat, 4 Sep 2010 06:48:30 +0000


Hi Marjory-

It is true I have not tried one, but it looks really cool. I agree that it
would be worth it for us to try it out and see how and if it works. Any
competitive advantage for a little tree goes a long way! I guess its
effectiveness would be based on your climate, though there is a lot of
moisture in the air, even in the desert.

I am going to try some other junkyard versions and see how it goes. Let me
know how the thistle meditation goes as well :)

Loren Luyendyk
(805) 452-8249
www.sborganics.com
www.surferswithoutborders.org




> Date: Fri, 3 Sep 2010 16:53:58 -0500
> From: forestgarden@gvtc.com
> To: permaculture@lists.ibiblio.org
> Subject: Re: [permaculture] waterboxx
>
>
> Hi Loren,
>
> I totally agree that buying these things in quantity would not really be
> feasible. And I really appreciate your re-connecting the design to
> natural systems. I am going to have to sit by a thistle for a while.
> Um, not sure when I'll get the time for that, but I have the desire! LOL.
>
> It seems to me that something low teach like this could be 'just enough'
> extra shade and water to get some trees started. I am getting used to
> high failure rates at this point in my life, so even having just a bit
> of an edge could make the difference. I keep realizing it all comes
> down to the effectiveness of harvesting the dew, and the amount of
> atmospheric water to harvest.
>
> So it sounds like you never actually tried one? I agree the concept is
> alluring.
>
> Marjory
>
>
>
> loren luyendyk wrote:
> > Marjory and Lawrence-
> >
> > I looked into this technology and was impressed with the concept, but
> > disappointed at the cost of the unit ($27.50 each for a minimum of 10,
> > down to $8.50 if you can afford $62,000 for 7200 units). If people can't
> > afford to plant trees how will they afford this? It seems like a rich
> > man's scheme to get funding for his product though the guise of
> > humanitarian work. I do agree that this is a great idea and replicable
> > with the real world in mind.
> >
> > I think your idea for using old tires and soda bottles is great,
> > Lawrence. A design that uses waste products from local areas is always
> > preferrable to manufactured gizmos. I was thinking of a design using
> > corrugated tin roofing with
> > lots of nails like spines as condensers, or better yet steel tubes (maybe
> > not so readily
> > available). The donut shape is good, though it could be any shape as
> > long as the condensation is directed to the root zone.
> >
> > Surface area is an important part of the design. If you look
> > at the Waterboxx, it has ridges like a thistle leaf. Metal would be
> > the best material, as it tends to cool more and keep that temp longer
> > than plastic. Stones also work well, especially angular ones used as a
> > mulch or stacked high to the windward side of a tree seedling. Fog
> > screens made of shade fabric will also trap moisture in windy areas,
> > and serve as little micro-shelters for the plants.
> >
> > The concept is atmospheric moisture harvesting, which may be accomplished
> > through many techniques. The temperature differential between a material
> > and the air causes condensation, which then is trapped and fed to a
> > waiting plant or storage. Milk thistles have evolved to do this
> > wonderfully, along with 1000's if other dry coastal species. Recognizing
> > this pattern, we can plant nurse species that will condense dew, like
> > Casaurina and Acacia (small or needle like leaves= lots of surface area)
> > . Using nature's own design will be the best long-term solution.
> >
> > Still, I would take some Waterboxxes if he was giving them away!
> > Loren Luyendyk
> > (805) 452-8249
> > www.sborganics.com
> > www.surferswithoutborders.org
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >> Date: Fri, 3 Sep 2010 14:43:25 -0400
> >> From: venaurafarm@bellsouth.net
> >> To: permaculture@lists.ibiblio.org
> >> Subject: Re: [permaculture] waterboxx
> >>
> >> On 9/3/2010 2:16 PM, Rain Tenaqiya wrote:
> >>
> >>> Hey Marjory,
> >>>
> >>> I have a friend who was very excited about using these in southern
> >>> California, so I did a little research. As usual, a lot of new
> >>> technologies are overpromoted, with wild claims. This device would
> >>> definitely help if you have the right climate. In other words, if
> >>> you have any Summer rain or dew, this box would help collect and
> >>> release the water over time, plus shade the seedling and conserve the
> >>> water, acting like a mulch.
> >>>
> >> Maybe used small diameter vehicle tires (also wheelbarrow and hand truck
> >> -sized ones - they are around $4-5 or less new!) and used tin cans (with
> >> a hole in the bottom; many types and sizes, soda and beer cans of
> >> aluminum would be rust-resistant, possibly aiding collection of dew and
> >> providing longer service) could be recycled to make one of these
> >> devices. Using a hole cutter cut a ring of holes into one side of the
> >> tire, insert cans in holes, put around seedling; total cost, around $5,
> >> emminently reusable, durable, UV resistant. The bottom half of the tire
> >> would become a reservoir; the height of the tire above grade would
> >> provide shade for the plant in addition to conserving water and
> >> providing cooling in soil under the tire. You could adapt many different
> >> sizes of tires to serve this purpose; the larger diameter ones could be
> >> left in place permanently.
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> >
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