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  • From: Tripp Tibbetts <slowfoodguy@yahoo.com>
  • To: permaculture <permaculture@lists.ibiblio.org>
  • Subject: Re: [permaculture] walnut guilding, was: walnuts from seed
  • Date: Wed, 8 Sep 2010 13:24:07 -0700 (PDT)

We already have the rats.  Might as well have the walnuts too.  The rats come
for the nuts of a mature pecan at the back, very low quality nuts
unfortunately, and they are still not convinced that this is really our house
now!  I had high hopes when I first saw the towering tree, perfect location
too - middle west of north property line.  It might have to come down one of
these days, (for cob oven fuel!), but not before I get something else
established.
 
We had walnuts in Washington, and most of your responses have come from
California.  Is the muggy southeast just not the place for English/Persian
walnuts?  I would say I'm leaning toward J. nigra at this point, which has
fine oily nutmeat, just requires a fine macho nutcracker too!!
 
So guild discussion:  I have, for all practical purposes, 4 mature
sugarberries around my 3000 s.f. goat and turkey paddock at the back of our
lot.  Originally I planned for them, or 2 of the most obstructive of them
anyway, to come down to make way for fruit trees around the paddock. 
Observation has pointed out, however, that my goats LOVE the sugarberry
leaves, that they rain down constantly on them all summer no matter which way
the wind blows, and that they provide some much needed dappled shade for the
paddock (you don't say).  So I want to save myself a lot of effort, money,
and imported feed by keeping them for the goats, as they are the priority in
this particular system.
 
But that brings up a couple of questions: Do sugarberries (Celtis laevigata)
behave in a walnut guild the same way hackberry does?  I know hackberry is a
synonym for sugarberry, but the hackberries discussed in Toby's book are
subcanopy shrubs, and these are 50' giants with a 20" dbh.  They would be the
overstory for decades, probably until they die.  The herbaceous layer back
there when we bought the property was a pure stand of Vinca major (which is
toxic to goats, they won't touch it, but apparently fine for chickens,
turkeys and guineas, just fyi), so apparently the sugarberries were doing
their grass-suppressing duty.  I would obviously like to grow grass and 
legumes inside the paddock for the goats, and it would seemingly require the 
simplest of biological transmutations to neutralize that allelopathic leaf
fall in a goat's rumen.  Not a single leaf within reach escapes their
attention, so I think that part is covered...unless I'm
mistaken, and the allelopathy manifests itself from the rhizosphere and not
just the leaf fall. 
 
But the remaining question arises from the change of plans.  If sugarberry
behaves the same way as hackberry, and we are leaving them all in place to
feed the goats, is the walnut element required to neutralize the Celtis toxin
outside of the paddock so that I can grow the other members of the guild? 
Added already, or on my to-add list, are mulberries, elderberries, wolfberry
(goji), black locust, goumi, and blackberries on the outer edge toward the
house (we just don't have even remotely enough chill hours for the remaining
currants in Tim Murphy's design, more's the pity).  I would love to have the
black walnuts, but I know they grow very fast and pack a deadly juglone punch
without the appropriate hackberry symbiont, so I want to get this one right.
 
Thanks to everyone who has assisted so far with this line of questions, and
I'm looking forward to hashing out the rest of this soon!
 
Tripp



The best fertilizer is the gardener's shadow.
-Chinese proverb
 



>From admin@pri-de.org Wed Sep 8 19:19:26 2010
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From: Killian O'Brien <admin@pri-de.org>
To: permaculture <permaculture@lists.ibiblio.org>
Date: Wed, 8 Sep 2010 17:55:16 -0400
Thread-Topic: [permaculture] double chamber cob oven video
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I'm getting an error on the URL. I am acutely interested as we have no heat
in our home and probably need to do one of these to get through the winter.

Cheers,

Killian O'Brien
PRI-De
admin@pri-de.org
(313) 647-4015

killiankob@yahoo.com
(760) 617-4693

-----Original Message-----
From: permaculture-bounces@lists.ibiblio.org
[mailto:permaculture-bounces@lists.ibiblio.org] On Behalf Of paul wheaton
Sent: Wednesday, September 08, 2010 11:03 AM
To: permaculture
Subject: [permaculture] double chamber cob oven video

A cob oven that burns much cleaner

http://www.youtube.com/paulwheaton12#p/u/0/TvrUrnEIQoo
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