permaculture

[Tripp Tibbetts <slowfoodguy@yahoo.com>]

We already have the rats.  Might as well have the walnuts too.  The rats come 
for the nuts of a mature pecan at the back, very low quality nuts 
unfortunately, and they are still not convinced that this is really our house 
now!  I had high hopes when I first saw the towering tree, perfect location 
too - middle west of north property line.  It might have to come down one of 
these days, (for cob oven fuel!), but not before I get something else 
established.
 
We had walnuts in Washington, and most of your responses have come from 
California.  Is the muggy southeast just not the place for English/Persian 
walnuts?  I would say I'm leaning toward J. nigra at this point, which has 
fine oily nutmeat, just requires a fine macho nutcracker too!!
 
So guild discussion:  I have, for all practical purposes, 4 mature 
sugarberries around my 3000 s.f. goat and turkey paddock at the back of our 
lot.  Originally I planned for them, or 2 of the most obstructive of them 
anyway, to come down to make way for fruit trees around the paddock.  
Observation has pointed out, however, that my goats LOVE the sugarberry 
leaves, that they rain down constantly on them all summer no matter which way 
the wind blows, and that they provide some much needed dappled shade for the 
paddock (you don't say).  So I want to save myself a lot of effort, money, 
and imported feed by keeping them for the goats, as they are the priority in 
this particular system.
 
But that brings up a couple of questions: Do sugarberries (Celtis laevigata) 
behave in a walnut guild the same way hackberry does?  I know hackberry is a 
synonym for sugarberry, but the hackberries discussed in Toby's book are 
subcanopy shrubs, and these are 50' giants with a 20" dbh.  They would be the 
overstory for decades, probably until they die.  The herbaceous layer back 
there when we bought the property was a pure stand of Vinca major (which is 
toxic to goats, they won't touch it, but apparently fine for chickens, 
turkeys and guineas, just fyi), so apparently the sugarberries were doing 
their grass-suppressing duty.  I would obviously like to grow grass and 
legumes inside the paddock for the goats, and it would seemingly require the 
simplest of biological transmutations to neutralize that allelopathic leaf 
fall in a goat's rumen.  Not a single leaf within reach escapes their 
attention, so I think that part is covered...unless I'm
 mistaken, and the allelopathy manifests itself from the rhizosphere and not 
just the leaf fall.  
 
But the remaining question arises from the change of plans.  If sugarberry 
behaves the same way as hackberry, and we are leaving them all in place to 
feed the goats, is the walnut element required to neutralize the Celtis toxin 
outside of the paddock so that I can grow the other members of the guild?  
Added already, or on my to-add list, are mulberries, elderberries, wolfberry 
(goji), black locust, goumi, and blackberries on the outer edge toward the 
house (we just don't have even remotely enough chill hours for the remaining 
currants in Tim Murphy's design, more's the pity).  I would love to have the 
black walnuts, but I know they grow very fast and pack a deadly juglone punch 
without the appropriate hackberry symbiont, so I want to get this one right.
 
Thanks to everyone who has assisted so far with this line of questions, and 
I'm looking forward to hashing out the rest of this soon!
 
Tripp



The best fertilizer is the gardener's shadow.
-Chinese proverb
 



>From admin@pri-de.org  Wed Sep  8 19:19:26 2010
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From: Killian O'Brien <admin@pri-de.org>
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Date: Wed, 8 Sep 2010 17:55:16 -0400
Thread-Topic: [permaculture] double chamber cob oven video
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I'm getting an error on the URL. I am acutely interested as we have no heat 
in our home and probably need to do one of these to get through the winter.

Cheers,

Killian O'Brien
PRI-De
admin@pri-de.org
(313) 647-4015

killiankob@yahoo.com
(760) 617-4693

-----Original Message-----
From: permaculture-bounces@lists.ibiblio.org 
[mailto:permaculture-bounces@lists.ibiblio.org] On Behalf Of paul wheaton
Sent: Wednesday, September 08, 2010 11:03 AM
To: permaculture
Subject: [permaculture] double chamber cob oven video

A cob oven that burns much cleaner

http://www.youtube.com/paulwheaton12#p/u/0/TvrUrnEIQoo
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