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  • From: Marjory <forestgarden@gvtc.com>
  • To: permaculture <permaculture@lists.ibiblio.org>
  • Subject: Re: [permaculture] waterboxx
  • Date: Fri, 03 Sep 2010 16:53:58 -0500


Hi Loren,

I totally agree that buying these things in quantity would not really be feasible. And I really appreciate your re-connecting the design to natural systems. I am going to have to sit by a thistle for a while. Um, not sure when I'll get the time for that, but I have the desire! LOL.
It seems to me that something low teach like this could be 'just enough' extra shade and water to get some trees started. I am getting used to high failure rates at this point in my life, so even having just a bit of an edge could make the difference. I keep realizing it all comes down to the effectiveness of harvesting the dew, and the amount of atmospheric water to harvest.
So it sounds like you never actually tried one? I agree the concept is alluring.
Marjory



loren luyendyk wrote:
Marjory and Lawrence-

I looked into this technology and was impressed with the concept, but
disappointed at the cost of the unit ($27.50 each for a minimum of 10, down
to $8.50 if you can afford $62,000 for 7200 units). If people can't afford
to plant trees how will they afford this? It seems like a rich man's scheme
to get funding for his product though the guise of humanitarian work. I do
agree that this is a great idea and replicable with the real world in mind.

I think your idea for using old tires and soda bottles is great, Lawrence. A
design that uses waste products from local areas is always preferrable to
manufactured gizmos. I was thinking of a design using corrugated tin roofing
with
lots of nails like spines as condensers, or better yet steel tubes (maybe not
so readily
available). The donut shape is good, though it could be any shape as
long as the condensation is directed to the root zone.

Surface area is an important part of the design. If you look
at the Waterboxx, it has ridges like a thistle leaf. Metal would be
the best material, as it tends to cool more and keep that temp longer
than plastic. Stones also work well, especially angular ones used as a
mulch or stacked high to the windward side of a tree seedling. Fog
screens made of shade fabric will also trap moisture in windy areas,
and serve as little micro-shelters for the plants.

The concept is atmospheric moisture harvesting, which may be accomplished through many techniques. The temperature differential between a material and the air causes condensation, which then is trapped and fed to a waiting plant or storage. Milk thistles have evolved to do this wonderfully, along with 1000's if other dry coastal species. Recognizing this pattern, we can plant nurse species that will condense dew, like Casaurina and Acacia (small or needle like leaves= lots of surface area) . Using nature's own design will be the best long-term solution.
Still, I would take some Waterboxxes if he was giving them away!
Loren Luyendyk
(805) 452-8249
www.sborganics.com
www.surferswithoutborders.org




Date: Fri, 3 Sep 2010 14:43:25 -0400
From: venaurafarm@bellsouth.net
To: permaculture@lists.ibiblio.org
Subject: Re: [permaculture] waterboxx

On 9/3/2010 2:16 PM, Rain Tenaqiya wrote:
Hey Marjory,

I have a friend who was very excited about using these in southern
California, so I did a little research. As usual, a lot of new
technologies are overpromoted, with wild claims. This device would
definitely help if you have the right climate. In other words, if
you have any Summer rain or dew, this box would help collect and
release the water over time, plus shade the seedling and conserve the
water, acting like a mulch.
Maybe used small diameter vehicle tires (also wheelbarrow and hand truck -sized ones - they are around $4-5 or less new!) and used tin cans (with a hole in the bottom; many types and sizes, soda and beer cans of aluminum would be rust-resistant, possibly aiding collection of dew and providing longer service) could be recycled to make one of these devices. Using a hole cutter cut a ring of holes into one side of the tire, insert cans in holes, put around seedling; total cost, around $5, emminently reusable, durable, UV resistant. The bottom half of the tire would become a reservoir; the height of the tire above grade would
provide shade for the plant in addition to conserving water and providing cooling in soil under the tire. You could adapt many different sizes of tires to serve this purpose; the larger diameter ones could be left in place permanently.
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