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  • From: Patrick <forgeadams@yahoo.com>
  • To: permaculture listserve <permaculture@lists.ibiblio.org>
  • Subject: [permaculture] permaculture enlightenment for the military
  • Date: Fri, 27 Aug 2010 02:51:59 -0700 (PDT)

Lee sayth-The military is made up of
human beings, most of whom have a sincere  desire to serve - that is, to
provide a service that is actually  valuable to us, namely to defend us
in the event that we ever really

need it. 



No, the military is a purely offensive
force. When was the last time the United States was attacked by a
foreign military (1941 and before that 1812)? We need to figure out how
to eventually rid ourselves of the institution altogether.  



Lee-That politicians (let's not forget
that the military is ultimately directed by civilians) often send these
folks to give their lives for an evil cause doesn't change that.  So
supporting the military while opposing war is really not at all
contradictory.



Furthermore, the fact of the matter is
that we have troops occupying a lot of places right now. We can
certainly do everything in our power to change that as voters, as
activists, whatever means we have at our disposal... but the reality is
they're there right now.  So if any damage to the earth or the local
people, any at all, can be prevented by the troops having permaculture
training, are you /really /saying you

don't want that training to happen?  Over fear of sounding like an "apologist
for war?"  Really?



Please provide an example of civilian direction of the military. That's news
to me.



Really no one should train military personnel to do aid work in occupied
countries. Did you read my earlier posts? My position is clear.
Humanitarian interventionism is an ethically bankrupt concept. The US
needs to lose & leave ASAP. The military getting involved in Ag has
real life consequences, it's not a matter of implying or voicing support
one way or the other. Western troops doing development work will enable
dragging this war out as long as possible (the military leadership's
prerogative). The war will probably end when there's a sufficient
combination of military defeat and government fiscal instability.



Ending the war would do a lot more good than the sorts of lifestyle
politics that are so popular these days. Barry Sanders has a book out on
the ecological impacts of war. Check him out. Crunch the numbers
yourself.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/barry-sanders/the-green-zone-the-worst-_b_70173.html


He says-the DoD is the largest purchaser and consumer of fuel of any
agency or country in the world. It is--no surprise--also the largest
polluter

 

It creeps me out when people say "we" when referring to the US military
abroad.



Sorry to beat a deadhorse everyone! I promise next time I'll post about mulch
and weird berries or something.



Patrick O'Connor

http://oaklandsol.org/wp/



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On 8/26/2010 11:28 PM, Daniel Mazen Kablaoui wrote:

> I am lazy! And so are most and many of my youngs, sames, and olds.
> But we are rich. And so are the counted members of my family who know
> on me they can count. Rich rich richer than you are with a bigger
> burden to carry.
>
> Too much searching the Internet, not enough busting of heads and
> writing on the walls of the place I live. Not enough practice, not
> enough patience, not enough!

Nice! Full of meaning!

> But Killian's words were most right - until that time comes and
> somebody can make it clear - we live in fear that we're not giving
> enough light, that we don't actually have support, that.... Blah!

The ongoing challenge!

> Boomers!? Uh, thank you! An articulator not for you, or really for
> me anymore - but for kids and babies about to be washing onshore.
> More and more and more all the time asking with no answers to help
> them see out some grime.

What an image. I see people embracing permaculture, something new and
valuable to them, as kids and babies washing up on some ocean's shore, a
new crop each day, in the early morning light, standing as
the foamy seawater ripples around their ankles, brushing off the sand,
drying in the warm sun then heading into the deep forest ahead to
build their world and affect ours making it better.




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