permaculture

[Jacque Greenleaf <jacque@book-woman.net>]

You are hardly alone in your feelings. We just have to keep on keeping on. 
There's literally nothing else to do!


On Aug 26, 2010, at 9:50 AM, Steven & Margaret Eisenhauer wrote:

> I agree that my statement that Boomers are sell outs is a gross
> generalization and for that I stand corrected. 
> I am at the tail end of the boomer wave and have interacted with my peers my
> entire life (Boomers), as a business person, artist/designer and a farmer.
> I have witnessed the destruction of civil society, the loss of culture and
> the rank lies that have constructed the current gestalt we live in here in
> the USA.  I have seen one war after another that has led me to believe that
> we are in endless wars for profit.  I have witnessed the loss of our
> nation's physical health due to a policy of food as a weapon and
> unbelievable greed (value added anyone?).  I have witnessed my nation become
> a gulag much like the police state we were told to fear in the old Soviet
> Union.  I have had success and been punished for it by those that wish to
> maintain a corrupt status quo.  I also am aware that many Americans are
> dependent on prescription drugs in order to deal with the morass that we now
> find ourselves in. I also bear no ill will towards boomers, just a
> resounding sadness for where we find ourselves now and the resolve to not
> put any of my pennies in the wrong cups.
> 
> 
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: permaculture-bounces@lists.ibiblio.org
> [mailto:permaculture-bounces@lists.ibiblio.org] On Behalf Of Jacque
> Greenleaf
> Sent: Wednesday, August 25, 2010 9:25 PM
> To: permaculture
> Subject: Re: [permaculture] Nicholas permaculture generation gap
> 
> This is a gross overgeneralization. 
> 
> First of all, most boomers were not countercultural. I graduated from a
> fairly large high school in 1965, and I would bet that the wildest things
> most of my classmates ever dreamed of doing was smoke a joint or two (and
> then spend years hiding that fact from their kids) and have sex before
> marriage. To be fair, that was indeed extremely wild, if you were the child
> of midwestern or southern depression babies, believe me. Families fractured
> permanently over these actions.
> 
> For the minority of us who were genuinely countercultural, we thought
> changing the world completely would only take a decade or so. Wrong then,
> and still wrong. 
> 
> I personally have never stopped working for the values I espoused when I was
> young. I was a huge disappointment to my right-wing mother until the day she
> died. It didn't stop me.
> 
> I'm really curious, what experience have you had with people my age that has
> led you to be so sour and judgmental?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> On Aug 25, 2010, at 5:11 PM, Steven & Margaret Eisenhauer wrote:
> 
>> 
>> Boomers sold out.  They did not demand the kind of change they really
> wanted
>> and settled for the status Que. As a reward they have been ripped off and
>> side lined, ultimately settling for rank materialism and prescription feel
>> good drugs.  The boomers should get off the couch, get their heads out of
>> their behinds and work for the values they espoused as young people. Or
>> perhaps they can't remember what it was they wanted.  Or have the real
>> visionaries been liquidated? Have the rats ate the grain and all that is
>> left is the chaff?
>> 
>> 
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: permaculture-bounces@lists.ibiblio.org
>> [mailto:permaculture-bounces@lists.ibiblio.org] On Behalf Of Rain Tenaqiya
>> Sent: Wednesday, August 25, 2010 2:15 PM
>> To: permaculture@lists.ibiblio.org
>> Subject: [permaculture] Nicholas permaculture generation gap
>> 
>> Thanks, Nicholas, for one of the more thoughtful and solution-focused
>> messages of late.  I have been thinking about the generational differences
>> between Boomers and younger folks, especially as they relate to
> permaculture
>> efforts, and I do feel they are significant.  I largely agree with your
>> analysis, however I feel there is one important aspect that you left out. 
>> Boomers may have had it easier in some ways, but many were truly
>> hard-working pioneers in other ways, creating options for later
>> generations.  We now have easy access to vegetarian and vegan food,
>> renewable energy, ecobuilding techniques, community land ownership models,
>> permaculture design, etc.  Many also worked harder than I think most
> younger
>> folks are willing to work.  The stories I have read and listened to about
>> the original back-to-the-landers make me feel like a wimp.  The current
>> generation has a sense of entitlement and an expectation that things
> should
>> be easy.  They are
>> also even more alienated from physical labor.  I speak from personal
>> experience.  Younger people also have more educational, entertainment, and
>> other opportunities and the society is more mobile, so it is hard to get
>> younger folks to commit to a place or project.  Whole segments of society
>> seem adrift. 
>> 
>> Your comment about rent-seeking retirees seems right on, however.  I feel
>> too many otherwise progressive folks too easily accept the idea that it is
>> okay to take money you didn't earn yourself.  The lack of questioning of
> the
>> capitalist, class-based system makes me squirm.  On the other hand, I
> cringe
>> when I see how few of my well-intentioned friends have means to create
>> sustainable systems without using the property they have access to to
>> generate money through renting it out.  We need to come up with more ways
> to
>> raise immediate funds while still giving equity to those paying "rent."
>> 
>> 
>> Rain
>> 
>> 
>> 
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