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  • From: Dieter Brand <diebrand@yahoo.com>
  • To: permaculture <permaculture@lists.ibiblio.org>
  • Subject: Re: [permaculture] Eucalyptus
  • Date: Thu, 10 Sep 2009 07:38:48 -0700 (PDT)

A neighbor used Eucalyptus (probably globulus) for poles and beams in a
largish rammed earth construction.  He took off the bark and let it dry for
one summer (probably not enough).  The poles are between 4 to 5 meters tall
and the beams are about 3 to 4 meters.  Especially the large poles did split
a good deal, which didn't seem to impede strength though.  Anyway, he put
some ion rings around some of the poles just to be on the save side..  I
think you have to take the bark off if you intend the structure to last for a
long time.
 
Dieter Brand
Portugal



--- On Thu, 9/10/09, Grifen <grifenhope@gmail.com> wrote:


From: Grifen <grifenhope@gmail.com>
Subject: [permaculture] Eucalyptus
To: "'permaculture'" <permaculture@lists.ibiblio.org>
Date: Thursday, September 10, 2009, 2:01 PM


Hola from Chile.
Has anyone out there used Eucalyptus globulus and / or E. nitens as round
pole for post and beam? Do you know if it´s possible to use it green, and
with or without bark? I have seen both species used all over Peru and
Bolivia in adobe, but have conflicting responses from locals. We have used
it here in light roof construction and it splits heavily as it dries in
sweltering summer heat. We want to use for post, beam, rafter and purlin in
cabins with light straw clay. Any advice and resources welcome.
Gracias,
Grifen 

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>From raincascadia@yahoo.com Thu Sep 10 13:24:19 2009
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Date: Thu, 10 Sep 2009 10:23:51 -0700 (PDT)
From: Rain Tenaqiya <raincascadia@yahoo.com>
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Subject: [permaculture] permaculture land
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I think Toby is right on with this issue.  I believe too much emphasis in
permaculture has been put on marginal and abused land without emphasizing how
much work and time it takes to live on such land.  As I've been working to
establish a permaculture on marginal land, I've realized that there are good
reasons for conventional land use practices. 
 
As the global population continues to grow and fossil fuels become more
scarce, more marginal and abused land is likely to come into use, and
permaculture strategies can help with this.  But a lot of this land is wild
and should stay that way.  Here, the permaculture movement could be enabling
the destruction of the last wilderness areas.  As much as possible, we should
use land that has already been significantly impacted by humun use, and which
is close to roads and urban areas.
 
Though a long-term and idealistic solution, I also think that the population
should gradually move back to the tropics and subtropics, where less energy
is required to live.  Even the contrast between California and Kansas in
energy use is profound.  Last Winter, we used hardly any wood to heat our
house, and food production is year-round, requiring much less food
preservation.  I have a friend who moved to South Carolina a few years ago
and is experiencing even more possibilities with all the water available
during the Summer.  Why fight Nature when you can work with it?
 
Rain



>From brent@gp.org Thu Sep 10 13:53:36 2009
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From: Brent McMillan <brent@gp.org>
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Subject: [permaculture] Appropriate Land Use
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One of the things that I will give Bill Clinton credit for when he was
president of the USA was his support of the Crop Reduction Program (CRP)

During the 1970's there was a lot of marginal land put into production
in the U.S. that should probably never have been put into production.

This included both highly erodible land (land of a certain degree of
slope or higher) and wetlands.

The CRP was utilized to take land back out of production.

There were some very rosy pictures put forward about the growth of
international markets for agriculture. A lot of farmers overextended
themselves financially in trying to expand. It made them vulnerable.

When the international markets didn't develop as projected,
well...instead what we had was a major consolidation in the ownership of
farmland. The small farms got themselves into financial trouble and got
bought out by the larger farms. I personally don't believe that this was
a coincidence.

For years, in Indiana we had an auction every weekend of some farm or
other that had gotten themselves into trouble. That didn't change until
the growth and demand from consumers for Organic.

Keyline management is an excellent way to address marginal lands. For my
farm I spent every other weekend for an entire summer removing field
tile from a former wetland area that a previous farmer had attempted to
put into production to grow potatoes. It is now back to wetland. My
father and I planted trees in the highly erodible areas that had been
used for soybean and corn production. Meanwhile the reforestation over
time is bringing back up the water table, tree roots are excellent for
holding water in the landscape. There is far more mixed use/diversity.

(I really like what the Bullock brothers have done on Orcas Island
(Washington State) with their wetlands, the annual bog toss!)

Many of the farmers, here in Indiana, have long since forgotten the
lessons of the dust bowl. When you drive the roads in Northwest Indiana,
where all the big corporate farms are, in the late summer when we
experience the most drought condition, there are literally dunes of
topsoil forming over the roads because there are no trees left.

In the northeast part of Indiana, where my farm is, this area was
originally settled by the various dissenter religions from Europe.
Ligonier is historically Jewish. Another town is Amish, another Quaker
and yet another Mennonite. These folks all have strong histories of an
ethic towards the land. They understand that the soil is a living thing
and have strong respect for soil tilth. The rest of the world could go
to hell in a hand basket and it would hardly phase them. Another
criteria for where to look to settle down.

Sincerely:

Brent McMillan, Steward of Woodhaven
Avilla, IN USA








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