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Subject: permaculture
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- From: Toby Hemenway <toby@patternliteracy.com>
- To: permaculture <permaculture@lists.ibiblio.org>
- Subject: Re: [permaculture] how to acquire land
- Date: Wed, 09 Sep 2009 13:04:03 -0700
Notes from my own experience and observations: In acquiring land, think carefully and honestly about what your goals are. In general, I urge buying the best soil and water you can afford (having once had steep land with heavy, exhausted soil and not much water). Yes, soil can be rehabilitated, in 5-10 years. And water can be harvested and stored, after swaling and pond building. But you will get a big head start by beginning with good soil and access to water, and can invest your energy in producing and enhancing habitat, rather than rehabilitation.
How much land do you really need? If your goal is self-reliant food production, an acre or three is more than enough; really, a half acre will produce vast amounts. Or do you want more land to have privacy and control? Those are two very different goals. I once thought I wanted lots of land to manage, but I really wanted solitude. You don't need to own the land for that, and it just makes more work and higher taxes.
I'm familiar with Ran Prieur's project, and he spends most of his time working very hard on rehabilitation and dealing with the problems of acreage, and not so much, it seems, on actually improving (in the sense of building and planting) and producing on his place. He's been working there 5 years, lost and is still losing a huge proportion of his plantings, and doesn't have buildings up yet AFAIK. If just working hard on land is what you enjoy, that's fine. Or if rehabilitation is your goal, rather than production, get an exhausted or cut-over piece. But rehab is a lot more work, takes a longer timeframe before yields become apparent, and will take up a larger proportion of your time than growing food if you try to do both.
Community is very important. Eventually you will start being affected by your neighbors, and many parts of the country where land is cheap have inhabitants who may not share your values. At some point that will probably get to you.
I get a lot of consulting calls to look at steep, cut-over land in remote locations, and when I see how hard the people there have worked to get so little, my heart aches. Any savvy farmer wouldn't go near those places. City folk with dreams buy them. And my recommendation, if I'm blunt, is to move to better land.
You get what you pay for. From my own hard-earned experience, I'd rather have a small piece of good, level land with ample water near a supportive community than a big piece of burnt-out land in an unsupportive area.
Toby
http://patternliteracy.com
Justin Hahn wrote:
Hello all,
Do any of you have any tips on acquiring inexpensively-priced land? It
doesn't have to be the best land, nor does it have to be developed or
settled land. Just land to live and permaculture on. The author of a blog I
read (Ran Prieur) acquired a few acres of logged out Idaho land from a
logging company on the cheap. I'm wondering if there are any other ways to
get land without taking out a mortgage or leasing it.
Degraded land (logged out, intensively farmed, etc) especially would be
good.
I'm thinking about $10,000-20,000.
Best regards and thank you for your wisdom.
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-
Re: [permaculture] how to acquire land,
Robert Waldrop, 09/08/2009
-
Re: [permaculture] how to acquire land,
Brent McMillan, 09/08/2009
-
Re: [permaculture] how to acquire land,
Scott Pittman, 09/08/2009
-
[permaculture] Eucalyptus,
Grifen, 09/10/2009
- Re: [permaculture] Eucalyptus, Dieter Brand, 09/10/2009
-
[permaculture] Eucalyptus,
Grifen, 09/10/2009
-
Re: [permaculture] how to acquire land,
mIEKAL aND, 09/08/2009
- Re: [permaculture] how to acquire land, John Thomas Naisbitt, 09/08/2009
-
Re: [permaculture] how to acquire land,
Scott Pittman, 09/08/2009
- <Possible follow-up(s)>
-
Re: [permaculture] how to acquire land,
Toby Hemenway, 09/09/2009
-
Re: [permaculture] how to acquire land,
Margaret L. Wilson, 09/09/2009
-
Re: [permaculture] how to acquire land,
Justin Hahn, 09/09/2009
- Re: [permaculture] how to acquire land, fdnokes, 09/09/2009
-
Re: [permaculture] how to acquire land,
Justin Hahn, 09/09/2009
-
Message not available
- Re: [permaculture] how to acquire land, Redding, Trudie A, 09/10/2009
-
Re: [permaculture] how to acquire land,
Margaret L. Wilson, 09/09/2009
-
Message not available
-
Re: [permaculture] how to acquire land,
woody~debris, 09/11/2009
- Re: [permaculture] how to acquire land, Redding, Trudie A, 09/11/2009
-
Re: [permaculture] how to acquire land,
woody~debris, 09/11/2009
-
Re: [permaculture] how to acquire land,
Brent McMillan, 09/08/2009
- [permaculture] Natural Succession in Community Building, lbsaltzman, 09/13/2009
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