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  • From: Justin Hahn <justin.hahn@gmail.com>
  • To: permaculture <permaculture@lists.ibiblio.org>
  • Subject: Re: [permaculture] how to acquire land
  • Date: Thu, 10 Sep 2009 12:12:35 +0900

Thank you all very much for your input. I appreciate the time and thought
you put into the replies, as well as the experience it took to arrive at
them. I'll be starting my land quest shortly and however it works out, I'll
keep the list posted for future reference.

On Thu, Sep 10, 2009 at 5:23 AM, Margaret L. Wilson <
booldawgs@frontiernet.net> wrote:

> Words from experience: Get your water rights legally and physically
> understood BEFORE you buy anything, anywhere. I bought a perfect 54 acre
> farming property with 36 acres of water rights. It cost a fortune to
> actually get the water here.
> Margaret
> http://www.farfarawayfarm.blogspot.com/
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: Toby Hemenway
> To: permaculture
> Sent: Wednesday, September 09, 2009 1:04 PM
> Subject: Re: [permaculture] how to acquire land
>
>
> Notes from my own experience and observations: In acquiring land, think
> carefully and honestly about what your goals are. In general, I urge
> buying the best soil and water you can afford (having once had steep
> land with heavy, exhausted soil and not much water). Yes, soil can be
> rehabilitated, in 5-10 years. And water can be harvested and stored,
> after swaling and pond building. But you will get a big head start by
> beginning with good soil and access to water, and can invest your energy
> in producing and enhancing habitat, rather than rehabilitation.
>
> How much land do you really need? If your goal is self-reliant food
> production, an acre or three is more than enough; really, a half acre
> will produce vast amounts. Or do you want more land to have privacy and
> control? Those are two very different goals. I once thought I wanted
> lots of land to manage, but I really wanted solitude. You don't need to
> own the land for that, and it just makes more work and higher taxes.
>
> I'm familiar with Ran Prieur's project, and he spends most of his time
> working very hard on rehabilitation and dealing with the problems of
> acreage, and not so much, it seems, on actually improving (in the sense
> of building and planting) and producing on his place. He's been working
> there 5 years, lost and is still losing a huge proportion of his
> plantings, and doesn't have buildings up yet AFAIK. If just working hard
> on land is what you enjoy, that's fine. Or if rehabilitation is your
> goal, rather than production, get an exhausted or cut-over piece. But
> rehab is a lot more work, takes a longer timeframe before yields become
> apparent, and will take up a larger proportion of your time than growing
> food if you try to do both.
>
> Community is very important. Eventually you will start being affected by
> your neighbors, and many parts of the country where land is cheap have
> inhabitants who may not share your values. At some point that will
> probably get to you.
>
> I get a lot of consulting calls to look at steep, cut-over land in
> remote locations, and when I see how hard the people there have worked
> to get so little, my heart aches. Any savvy farmer wouldn't go near
> those places. City folk with dreams buy them. And my recommendation, if
> I'm blunt, is to move to better land.
>
> You get what you pay for. From my own hard-earned experience, I'd rather
> have a small piece of good, level land with ample water near a
> supportive community than a big piece of burnt-out land in an
> unsupportive area.
>
> Toby
> http://patternliteracy.com
>
>
> Justin Hahn wrote:
> > Hello all,
> >
> > Do any of you have any tips on acquiring inexpensively-priced land? It
> > doesn't have to be the best land, nor does it have to be developed or
> > settled land. Just land to live and permaculture on. The author of a
> > blog I
> > read (Ran Prieur) acquired a few acres of logged out Idaho land from a
> > logging company on the cheap. I'm wondering if there are any other ways
> to
> > get land without taking out a mortgage or leasing it.
> > Degraded land (logged out, intensively farmed, etc) especially would be
> > good.
> > I'm thinking about $10,000-20,000.
> >
> > Best regards and thank you for your wisdom.
> > _______________________________________________
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> >
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