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  • From: <shashi.pkumar@wipro.com>
  • To: <permaculture@lists.ibiblio.org>
  • Subject: Re: [permaculture] how to acquire land
  • Date: Sat, 12 Sep 2009 19:23:13 +0530

Can some one throw some light on this statement? Or provide a reference
to study material in this regard?

"With low capital I had to take Bill Mollison's warning in the PDM that
one must not go onto the land under capitalized and that he wrote the
one should expect it would take 7 years before a self supporting income
could be had from the land."


Regards
Shashi



-----Original Message-----
From: permaculture-bounces@lists.ibiblio.org
[mailto:permaculture-bounces@lists.ibiblio.org] On Behalf Of Harold
Waldock
Sent: Friday, September 11, 2009 12:53 AM
To: permaculture
Subject: Re: [permaculture] how to acquire land

I thought about acquiring land but realized that a solo project by me
was unlikely to be successful in the long run. As a human, I had to
accept that I had strong social needs that would be hard to meet in
rural areas given my background. As an urbanite (going back
generations) I would be at a huge disadvantage in the the
countryside. With tendonitis that does not go away I had
liabilities. With low capital I had to take Bill Mollison's warning
in the PDM that one must not go onto the land under capitalized and
that he wrote the one should expect it would take 7 years before a
self supporting income could be had from the land. Furthermore, here
in BC Canada we had the experience of the hippies who came from the
US to escape the draft or warrants for their arrest for other
things. Some went into the hills or coves and just subsisted for a
while. Some were part of communes with unreasonable ideas that were
usually spectacularly unsuccessful.

Finally, a story from my assistant PDC instructor Liz Richardson on
Cortez Island when I asked for the last name of some people living
nearby. "Oh, I don't know their last names. They come as couples to
the island, they buy a piece of land, they work to pay for it, work
to build on it a house and pay for the materials. When they finish
it, they divorce, selling the house of all that effort, of years of
blood, sweat and tears." It suggests that homesteading is not well
supported, not easily done and too hard for many who take it on.
There is also the 'hole in the woods syndrome' which is quite common
on this coast too. That is specifically not making sure the site is
sunny during the winter here which so dark, grey and rainy. There
had to be a better way, I thought.

Talk to friends get a group and develop together a neighbourhood and
call it an ecovillage only if you want. That is where I started.
That road is not easy or for everybody either but at least you have
the talents of others helping, capital in scale and the ability to
hire professionals. It does take a couple of extra years but you
learn about what you are getting into. I've not finished this road
either as I'm not yet on site, but other members are. When they need
help they ask. More members are buying or leasing homes at Yarrow
Ecovillage www.yarrowecovillage.ca every few months now.

Therefore, I'd suggest checking out ecovillages and just talking with
knowledgeable people in the areas you want to be in. I am always
surprised how many such ecovillage or ecohamlet type nieghbourhoods
exist and not well connected or known or networked or advertised but
successful. Just the other day I learned about one on Reid Island
just west of Cortez Island at a regular Thursday night monthly
Vancouver Permaculture Meet Up http://www.meetup.com/The-Vancouver-
Permaculture-Meetup-Group meeting. Ask around, go to meetings where
you might meet people who have this interest or background. You'd be
amazed how many different neighbourhoods there are. With a
community or neighbourhood of common interest you have a supportive
environment for permaculture.






On 9-Sep-09, at 1:04 PM, Toby Hemenway wrote:

> Notes from my own experience and observations: In acquiring land,
> think
> carefully and honestly about what your goals are. In general, I urge
> buying the best soil and water you can afford (having once had steep
> land with heavy, exhausted soil and not much water). Yes, soil can be
> rehabilitated, in 5-10 years. And water can be harvested and stored,
> after swaling and pond building. But you will get a big head start by
> beginning with good soil and access to water, and can invest your
> energy
> in producing and enhancing habitat, rather than rehabilitation.
>
> How much land do you really need? If your goal is self-reliant food
> production, an acre or three is more than enough; really, a half acre
> will produce vast amounts. Or do you want more land to have privacy
> and
> control? Those are two very different goals. I once thought I wanted
> lots of land to manage, but I really wanted solitude. You don't
> need to
> own the land for that, and it just makes more work and higher taxes.
>
> I'm familiar with Ran Prieur's project, and he spends most of his time
> working very hard on rehabilitation and dealing with the problems of
> acreage, and not so much, it seems, on actually improving (in the
> sense
> of building and planting) and producing on his place. He's been
> working
> there 5 years, lost and is still losing a huge proportion of his
> plantings, and doesn't have buildings up yet AFAIK. If just working
> hard
> on land is what you enjoy, that's fine. Or if rehabilitation is your
> goal, rather than production, get an exhausted or cut-over piece. But
> rehab is a lot more work, takes a longer timeframe before yields
> become
> apparent, and will take up a larger proportion of your time than
> growing
> food if you try to do both.
>
> Community is very important. Eventually you will start being
> affected by
> your neighbors, and many parts of the country where land is cheap have
> inhabitants who may not share your values. At some point that will
> probably get to you.
>
> I get a lot of consulting calls to look at steep, cut-over land in
> remote locations, and when I see how hard the people there have worked
> to get so little, my heart aches. Any savvy farmer wouldn't go near
> those places. City folk with dreams buy them. And my
> recommendation, if
> I'm blunt, is to move to better land.
>
> You get what you pay for. From my own hard-earned experience, I'd
> rather
> have a small piece of good, level land with ample water near a
> supportive community than a big piece of burnt-out land in an
> unsupportive area.
>
> Toby
> http://patternliteracy.com
>
>
> Justin Hahn wrote:
>> Hello all,
>>
>> Do any of you have any tips on acquiring inexpensively-priced
>> land? It
>> doesn't have to be the best land, nor does it have to be developed or
>> settled land. Just land to live and permaculture on. The author of a
>> blog I
>> read (Ran Prieur) acquired a few acres of logged out Idaho land
>> from a
>> logging company on the cheap. I'm wondering if there are any other
>> ways to
>> get land without taking out a mortgage or leasing it.
>> Degraded land (logged out, intensively farmed, etc) especially
>> would be
>> good.
>> I'm thinking about $10,000-20,000.
>>
>> Best regards and thank you for your wisdom.
>> _______________________________________________
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