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  • From: Stephanie Gerson <sgerson@stanfordalumni.org>
  • To: <pcplantdb@lists.ibiblio.org>
  • Subject: Re: [pcplantdb] synthesis[20][9.8.04]
  • Date: Wed, 08 Sep 2004 17:34:28 -0700

"Yes Chad start PROGRAMMING!"? "Yes Chad start PROGRAMMING!"? "Yes Chad start
PROGRAMMING!"? "Yes Chad start PROGRAMMING!"? "Yes Chad start PROGRAMMING!"?
"Yes Chad start PROGRAMMING!"? "Yes Chad start PROGRAMMING!"? "Yes Chad start
PROGRAMMING!"? "Yes Chad start PROGRAMMING!"? "Yes Chad start PROGRAMMING!"?
"Yes Chad start PROGRAMMING!"? "Yes Chad start PROGRAMMING!"? "Yes Chad start
PROGRAMMING!"? "Yes Chad start PROGRAMMING!"? "Yes Chad start PROGRAMMING!"?
"Yes Chad start PROGRAMMING!"? "Yes Chad start PROGRAMMING!"? "Yes Chad start
PROGRAMMING!"? "Yes Chad start PROGRAMMING!"? "Yes Chad start PROGRAMMING!"?
"Yes Chad start PROGRAMMING!"? "Yes Chad start PROGRAMMING!"? "Yes Chad start
PROGRAMMING!"? "Yes Chad start PROGRAMMING!"? "Yes Chad start PROGRAMMING!"?
"Yes Chad start PROGRAMMING!"? "Yes Chad start PROGRAMMING!"? "Yes Chad start
PROGRAMMING!"? "Yes Chad start PROGRAMMING!"? "Yes Chad start PROGRAMMING!"?
"Yes Chad start PROGRAMMING!"? "Yes Chad start PROGRAMMING!"? "Yes Chad start
PROGRAMMING!"? "Yes Chad start PROGRAMMING!"? "Yes Chad start PROGRAMMING!"?
"Yes Chad start PROGRAMMING!"? "Yes Chad start PROGRAMMING!"? "Yes Chad start
PROGRAMMING!"? "Yes Chad start PROGRAMMING!"? "Yes Chad start PROGRAMMING!"?
"Yes Chad start PROGRAMMING!"?

!
*s

Chad Knepp <pyg@galatea.org> wrote:

Stephanie Gerson writes:
> Oi gente,
>
> Sorry if I,F"(Bve been a bit of a stranger lately$B!D(B
>
> So here,F"(Bs the scoop:
>
> -POST TO PC LISTS $(G!9(B
>
> <snipped>
>
> -SHARED WEB WORKSPACE $(G!9(B
> Ok, so does the website Chad,F"(Bs been working on and folks have been
adding to
> (thank you! I dig the stephaniegerson.org idea) satisfy our need for a
shared
> web workspace? Because isn,F"(Bt this also going to be hg,F"(Bs
homepage?
> Hmmm$B!D(Bdo we want our workspace and homepage to be one and the same?
For
> instance, I don,F"(Bt know if I want to be posting grant-seeking info for
all
> the public to view$B!D(Bthen again, if it,F"(Bs going to be a _shared_
web
> workspace, might as well share it all the way?
>
> Needing some clarification: is permaculture.info going to be our shared
web
> workspace, our homepage for the public, or both? And if not both $(G!9(B
since
> people seem to be happy with the format, why not use this format (instead
of a
> wiki) for our shared web workspace?

Yes, this is the current look/webpage of permaculture.info, but it can
be however we want it to be. I was hoping to present something that
looked a little more professional, demonstrated some of the power of
zope, and hopefully was useful in the process ;-) Since I just *went
out and did it* before getting a group take on it, I'm sure that it
will need to to change. More importantly than url and layout is
content IMO, and I'm surprised that no one has shown interest in
changing my [opinionated] one paragraph super summary... musta been
the stunning effect of seeing one's name in a bulleted list ;-)

> -WEBSITE $(G!9(B
> Speaking of the website, Chad wrote: $B!H(BJust a quick clarification.
The site
> is set up so that EVERYONE who has an account can add/change stuff. You
don't
> have to wait for me to do if you have a little time to figure out how it
all
> works... little more complicated than a wiki and WAY more
powerful.$B!I(B
> Esta bien. Let,F"(Bs all add/change stuff, but we (er, I) need to learn
how.
>
> So, Chad wrote, $B!H(BI found the interface quite intuitive, but that's
me.... I
> will post good howto docs if I run across them. One thing that is optional
but
> helpful is to learn STX (structured text) which is the markup language for
> plone. You can also use plain text or html, but stx is pretty powerful,
> intuitive, and fast. This is a pretty good howto
> <http://plone.org/documentation/howto/UsingStructuredText>. Actually,
> the whole first section of <http://plone.org/documentation/howto> is
> pretty good info for learning how to use it.$B!I(B
> Not intuitive to me, and I will probably need the how-to docs.

Well, let me suggest just messing around with it. Intuitive for me
means that I messed around with it for a bit and figured it out
without becoming completely frustrated in the process. You cannot do
anything really bad so don't worry about breaking it, although I
recommend not deleting things other people have done.

> Chad also wrote, $B!H(BActually I think it's best to start stuff
including news
> articles in 'my folder' (your user folder)$B!D(BDocuments that you create
should
> either be started in the documents folder or be cut and pasted
there.$B!I(B
> Can we please discuss the scope of what we will be posting up there? Are
they
> going to pertain to the logistics/technicalities of this project, to
> information about relationship between plants, or to Permaculture in
general?
> Because I fear that if we don,F"(Bt define our scope now, it will become
a
> mishmash of Permaculture information (many of which already exist $(G!9(B
and
> although it might be useful, it wouldn,F"(Bt be distinctive). Thoughts?

Good question. I guess that my thoughts is starting it were that it
would function as the project whiteboard which is what I thought we
were aiming for with a *shared web workspace*. I think the confusion
creeps in where the obvious capabilities of plone show the
possibilities of using it *as is* for a web portal/wiki/groovy
permaculture website. I think I've confused the issue more by not
being clear that the product we are creating is distinct from this.

Even though it's fun to make it happen, I'm not convinced that we need
a *shared web workspace*. Unless we can discern real benefits from
using it and make ourselves transition from the email list to the
webspace I suspect that much of our group work will continue to take
place on email.

> In this vain, Rich wrote, $B!H(BNot really relavant at this stage, but a
personal
> bug-bear about this sort of site is having an overloaded front page, with
the
> latest news on it, and all sort of other stuff.$B!I(B
> I completely agree. I would rather have less information that is more
> relevant (to whatever theme $(G!9(B logistics, guild information, or
otherwise $(G!9(B
> we specify) rather than a larger quantity of information that is less
> relevant, and more general.

I think you are reacting to some of the navigational elements and
layout, which can be easily customized (aka removed). There actually
isn't much information in terms of content. I think more content will
diminish the sense of imbalance of between theme/navigation and
information.

> Rich also wrote, $B!H(BAs a new user the first thing I want to know is
what is
> this site about and is it worth me spending any more time exploring the
site,
> often you need to explore a few links just to get that basic info.$B!I(B
> Basically, why is this site different from all other sites?

In this regards, currently permaculture.info is a rock bottom
contentless site. Anybody want to write some boilerplate about our
project? I nominate Steph!... actually, you could just use some of
the stuff you've already written.

> -PROJECT PLAN$(G!9(B
> Updates anyone?
>
> Also, in synthesis[19], I (re)raised the topic of Phase 1 goals and sent
out
> Johns,F"(Bs working doc. Scott also asked about a timeline. Should we
attach
> dates to the Phase 1 goals? I know that you,F"(Bve preferred the task
lists
> without dates/weeks, but perhaps we should attach (flexible) dates to the
> major milestones. I,F"(Bve re-pasted the Phase 1 goals below. Please
review,
> and make suggestions for a timeline if the goal pertains to you!
Otherwise, I
> will make an arbitrary timeline and then ask for edits (more work for me).
>
> I,F"(Bve added tasks to the task list and new questions below. They are
> condensed, meaning there,F"(Bs less shtuff to wade through, meaning
please check
> them! And send me any new tasks you see yourself performing.
>
> About the Sunday task updates: these are also for fund distribution
purposes
> (to determine who did what, how long it took, and how to compensate them).
So
> please be clear with what you did and how long it took you to do it.
Also,
> please send these to me as Word attachments, so I can start archiving them.
I
> know that $ is an incentive$B!D(B

All good except for sending them as Word attachments. I and several
others in this project do not or cannot use Word for a variety of
reasons and I suggest going with a more platform neutral format.
Plain text is the best IMO, but .rtf is ok by me.

> -ZOPE/Ibiblio $(G!9(B
> Thanks for reminding us about this issue, Scott! We,F"(Bd completely
forgotten
> it! hahaha$B!D(Byes, we are still waiting to hear from Chad and Rich.
But
> whenever you decide whatever you decide on, I definitely give you the
> go-ahead!

Yes Scott this is a good question. Actually Rich and I talked about
it over a week ago and made a decision. I'm not sure about Rich's
reasons, but I myself have been rather nervous about the potential
reactions/drama following the announcement that we decided to use
Zope. I think this has been a contributing factor to some of the lull
on the list.

> -MISCELLANEOUS $(G!9(B
> ,A`(B oy ve, how is your foot Chad? Sounds painful$B!D(B

All better.

> ,A`(B Responding to my ramblings regarding Biomimicry in software
development,
> Rich wrote, $B!H(BI supose this is applying permaculture to website
design!$B!I(B
> Exactly. I will soon send links to the branch of Industrial Ecology I was
> referring to $(G!9(B super fascinating.
>
> That,F"(Bs it for now.
>
> hasta luego
> *s
>
>
> p.s. If it takes you a long time to read, it took someone longer to
write...

No kidding. I appreciate the effort ;-)

> $B!D!D!D!D!D(B.
> LATEST TASKS
> ,A7(B Everyone $(G!9(B now
> o Make an account on bugzilla, create bugs, check Johns,F"(Bs docs
> (has
anyone
> done this, Johns?)
> o Add/change stuff to/on permaculture.info website $(G!9(B do we want
photos of
> ourselves up there?

I think it's optional, but check out JohnH's. You rock!

> <snip>

> ,A7(B Chad and Rich
> 1. create a working database (with no real data) with php connection and
> simple front end (basically just checking that the different bits can work
> together)

So Rich has said I can get started on creating the basic Zope
framework of this, following Phase 1 specifications. Can people say,
"Yes Chad start PROGRAMMING!"? I'm ready. I've been ready for 6
weeks. Please, please, please...

> 2. Rich $(G!9(B start doing whatever needs to be done in order to get
> the
latest
> version of PFAF that is under the CC-BY-NC-SA (2 weeks to complete)

> <snip>

> ...
>
> QUESTIONS
> 1. Is permaculture.info going to be our shared web workspace *and* the hg
> homepage?

I can easily make our web workspace different than our homepage if we
had an actual homepage. I personally think that plone can do both
very nicely and I am open to feedback on how to make it more
friendly. So far, I've heard/interpreted that I need to tone down
some of the navigational/layout stuff which I will do in the next
couple of days.

> ...
>
> PHASE 1 GOALS
> <snipped, read it on the web
<http://www.permaculture.info/documents/phase1>>
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+++++++++++++++
Stephanie Gerson
sgerson@stanfordalumni.org
(c) 415.871.5683


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