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pcplantdb - Re: [pcplantdb] platform revisited - * suggestion for revised project name

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  • From: "Lawrence F. London, Jr." <lfl@intrex.net>
  • To: pcplantdb@lists.ibiblio.org
  • Subject: Re: [pcplantdb] platform revisited - * suggestion for revised project name
  • Date: Sun, 15 Aug 2004 22:07:47 -0700

Chad Knepp wrote:


I think the domain name is something that has far more assurance of
being permanent. If Bush is re-elected ( ;-) we could spiral into an
economic recession,

I hope that does not happen.

funding could be cut to ibiblio, and they could
dump us in the street. Sure this is unlikely but there are really no
guarantees other than what we collectively manifest. I am still 100
percent behind trying to be a part of ibiblio but regardless we can't
really be certain that it will be the forever home of
permaculture.info.

Very true. I agree.

I have a different analogy for Zope. I think it is kind of like
XEmacs. It has a point and click gui that is [sort of] easy to use if
you need it but underneath it is a super powerful highly customizable
platform. Rich's comments about Zope where largely his first
impression of the point and click gui of Zope called ZMI. Zope is
really a very serious piece of software with a highly active
development community. Zope 3 will feature a complete rewrite that
will better performing and easier to develop for. Zope is to python
what Linux is to Open Source.

Interesting!

I don't mean to imply that I am unwilling to go with something other
than Zope if the group chooses it. I think the best technical choice
for the project is Zope for the reasons above. I started Eden with
the same goals I have now, just with less information. If the group
really wants to go with an RDBMS I still think I'm the best programmer
for your buck... in Missouri anyway ;-).

Sorry for my terse and seemingly unreasonable comments. In a few words,
the software platform is up to you and Rich and I will go with what you all
decide,
and be grateful that you all will be doing this work.

The consensus process is really about communicating all the issues
involved and although the decision about platform has been fairly
laborious I think we have most of them on the table. Lawrence feels
very strongly about this issue and has effectively stated that he will
block consensus on this issue if we do not choose ibiblio for our

I wouldn't do that, sorry if I gave that impression. I meant to say before
that
if the project wasn't done on ibiblio I would just put my energies elsewhere,
i.e. my own
work on ibiblio. Now I can see that making HG happen is all important. Though
I would prefer ibiblio,
I will contribute wherever it is located as long it provides features and
resources that I think it ought to
and that we (the core group, PI, the programmers, an HG non-profit, etc.)
will continue to control its fate.

hosting. I am reluctant to make a technical decision that is not
based solely on technical merits, but this is not a blocking issue
for me. I feel like I've expressed my concerns and that people
understand them.

Sounds like a winner.

Furthermore, Lawrence, I don't know if I can say this in a way that is
easy to hear, but I'm concerned that you feel this strongly about an
issue and have such a high degree of attachment to a particular
outcome. Blocking is pretty heavy trip to lay on the group and I hope
that this is a unique situation that you happen to feel particularly
strong about and is atypical for you. On other decisions we've made

See above. I would not block consensus. My concerns for this project can be
summed up in these words from a previous post:
"I have seen this happen before where a promising project gets coopted by
a pressure group who subverts its mission to serve their own ends. "
I think you made comments about this sort of thing before.

you, for the most part, have been very open to difference and willing
to compromise. In the future I would appreciate if you could express

.... and will continue to.

your concerns about the decision and allow some discussion before
presenting your decision. You did do this in your 'Aug 11th Re:
platform revisited'. This is the kind of info. that is helpful in our
discussions.

I'll continue to do that.

Well, I'll let someone else generate a platform proposal. If 'said
proposal generator' wants to just use my numbers I would like to
recommend 3) over 4). It doesn't really add much time to the
development and increases portability (could use MySQL or
PostgreSQL...) as well as enables cleaner OO model.

Why don't you and Rich decide what you want to do; you'll know more to help
make that decision as soon as I post Fred's reply
here. My suggestion to the group would be to go along with the decision you
all arrive at.

Ack! update: So I've gotten parts of Ack! working in Zope, but for
data entry I much prefer the CLI to a browser interface. There are
still things I don't understand and I haven't been able to 'reverse
engineer' the object layout in Zope's ZODB instance in Data.fs in
order to have the CLI and the web based interface access the same
objects in Data.fs. Since we have stepped up the platform discussions
I haven't been working on it as much against the possibility that we
might not choose Zope after all.

Sorry this is taking so long. We will get going here one of these and
then stuff is REALLY going to happen! Hang in there y'all.

Sure will and THANKS!

Cheers,

Lawrence
--
L.F.London
lfl@intrex.net
http://market-farming.com
http://www.ibiblio.org/ecolandtech




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