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I have kept silent for a bit because I would love
to find the truth of the matter. But I read the article supplied by you Kate and
find there that they blame disappearance of this wooden house on the combination
of rising water levels. subsidence and erosion. Iow they don't know
either.
john
Here
is one of the best illustrations of sea level rise that I am aware of:
There was a really great story in the Washington Post last year, but it
is not free now. If anyone cares to pay to read it, here is the info for an
archive search:
 |
Buy
Complete Document Buy Page Print |
 |
 |
| Losing battle against the bay |
|
The Washington Post - Washington,
D.C. |
| Author: |
David
A Fahrenthold |
| Date: |
Oct
25, 2010 |
| Start
Page: |
A.10 |
| Section: |
A-SECTION |
| Text
Word Count: |
1290 |
|
|
|
[...]
the man gave up. I lie in bed and feel like I failed. [...] I
remember that I did everything that I could, said White, who had
first visited the abandoned island as a boy.
Reproduced with permission of the copyright owner.
Further reproduction or distribution is prohibited without
permission. |
|
| Buy
Complete Document Buy Page Print | |
No, I am not arguing for the sake of arguing. You believe that the
government reports are true. I want to know where the evidence is. Where is
it that one can go and see the irrefutable evidence? It's kinda like the
FEMA detention camps. They aren't there. Paul the Skeptic On
Jun 13, 2011, at 11:34 PM, "Tradingpost" < tradingpost@lobo.net>
wrote:
Disagreement is fine, but it's pointless when you
don't bother to read what you're replying to, or don't regard all these
government agencies as credible authorities in their own areas of
expertise reaching the same conclusions. You'd argue with a brick
wall.
paul tradingpost@lobo.net
*********** REPLY SEPARATOR
***********
On 6/13/2011 at 6:41 AM paul@oneseedling.com
wrote:
Well send me a link showing me where this is
happening cause I have been
going to see friends that live on Cape Cod for
the last 40 years and they
are living in their Great Grandfathers house on
the shore and the boat
rings sunk in stone are still in the same place
sea level wise.
Same deal on the West Coast. Slips built in
early 20's still at the same
height.
So where is the
evidence??
I believe what I can see.
I have been to Greece at the site of the battle
of Thermopylae and the
ocean is a mile away and 50' lower. I have stood
on poured concrete docks
in Italy built by the Romans a quarter mile from
the ocean and watched
excavation of a complete ship at those docks.
That is evidence.
I believe that global warming can raise sea
levels if enough ice pack like
in Greenland melts. Hasn't happened yet.
Paul the Skeptic
On Jun 11, 2011, at 10:44 PM, "Tradingpost"
<tradingpost@lobo.net>
wrote:
http://www.ncdc.noaa.gov/oa/climate/globalwarming.html#q9
states:
"Global mean sea level has been rising at an
average rate of 1.7
mm/year (plus or minus 0.5mm) over the past 100
years, which is
significantly larger than the rate averaged over
the last several thousand
years."
Not speculative. And I seriously doubt Al Gore
is dictating policy to
National Oceanic and Atmospheric Administration,
National Climatic Data
Center. Same goes for all the other links. I
welcome differences of views
but please research the subject and weigh the
credibility of sources and
who's paying them to say what. I do not support
the "look out the window
and see if the sea level is rising" approach to
the science.
And the U.S. Geological Survey
at
http://www.nwrc.usgs.gov/factshts/fs91_97.pdf
"The rate of global sealevel rise is expected
to accelerate during the
next century as atmospheric temperatures
continue to increase."
What's important in this IMHO is to use and
study and challenge the
science instead of just dissing it with
ideological blinders. I mean, we
still see some who demand we accept the sun goes
around the earth because
the Bible says so.
paul tradingpost@lobo.net
*********** REPLY SEPARATOR
***********
On 6/10/2011 at 11:26 AM paul@oneseedling.com
wrote:
The National Geographic link is mostly
speculating what would
happen
"if". There has been no rise of ocean 4-8in
in the US.
The second link is also speculating on
effects of rising levels
on
marshland in Louisana. The graph actually
shows the swamp rose
instead
of
fell.
The third link is also speculating on what
"if" however it is more
fact
based showing a very slight rise in sea
levels. However
archeological
evidence at least in the Mediterranean shows
a fall in sea levels
at
around 50 ft from Greek Classical era.
The fourth link is also speculative heavy on
the what if with some
nice
temperature charts thrown in. Gotta remember
we have only been
recording
accurate temperatures for around 200 years.
Sorry, the last two links didn't work on my
computer.
So I still say that as far as I can see the
ocean rise thing is
mostly
speculative. I looked at so old pictures of
Florence and compared
them
to
modern pictures and it was a mixed bad, some
higher some lower
which
leads
me to believe that those are foundation
problems.
Indications are that places like Bangladesh
are sinking but that is
due
to
subduction of their subcontinent. Some
islands in the Indian Ocean
and
in
the Pacific have lost coastline but this
appears to be related
to
natural
sinking of volcanic
islands
Climate change is good business, just as Al
Gore.
Paul the
Skeptic
On Jun 9, 2011, at 10:46 PM, "Tradingpost"
<tradingpost@lobo.net>
wrote:
They can always pay some "expert" who
isn't even a climate scientist
to
lie like no tomorrow, and the moneybags come
from the likes of
Exxon-Mobil
and other big polluters who stand to lose
money if climate science
is
taken seriously. But these are credible
websites:
http://news.nationalgeographic.com/news/2004/04/0420_040420_earthday.html
http://www.nwrc.usgs.gov/factshts/fs91_97.pdf
http://www.ncdc.noaa.gov/oa/climate/globalwarming.html#q9
http://www.nature.nps.gov/geology/coastal/gw_slr.cfm
http://www.britannica.com/EBchecked/topic/235402/global-warming/274850/Ice-melt-and-sea-level-rise
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/15774757
paul tradingpost@lobo.net
*********** REPLY SEPARATOR
***********
On 6/9/2011 at 8:35 PM paul@oneseedling.com
wrote:
I guess the only question is where is
the sea rising. No evidence
on
either coast of the US. Area around New
Orleans is sinking but
area
around
Corpus Christi the same.
Paul the
Skeptic
On Jun 9, 2011, at 4:53 PM,
"Tradingpost" <tradingpost@lobo.net>
wrote:
Qui bono. I'd question the source of
any such
"documentaries".
paul tradingpost@lobo.net
*********** REPLY SEPARATOR
***********
On 6/9/2011 at 9:26 PM John D'hondt
wrote:
That is one of the things that worry
me Paul. There should be
a
measurable
and fast rise in sea level but I
have seen whole documentaries
explaining/proving that exactly the
opposite is happening. I wish
I
were
certain myself but confusion
rules.
john
OK with me, I'm just judging from
the amount of sea ice
melting.
*********** REPLY SEPARATOR
***********
On 6/8/2011 at 10:14 PM John
D'hondt
wrote:
Just replying to the last
paragraph Paul. There is a hell of a
lot
of
confusion at the moment. It is
not easy to see whether sea
levels
rise
or
fall when the tidal differences
are huge in comparison. I
have
seen
scientific articles going in
either direction and the last
one
from
only
a
few weeks ago measured sea
levels with gps and satellites
and
found
a
drop.
Time will tell if we are still
around.
john
to the question "why panic if
we should move towards the
same
levels
of
green
house gas as in the
Carboniferous?"
it would destroy civilization
and most species adapted to
modern
climate
including humans of
course
sea water is rising slowly,
and if the sun was hotter
some
scientists
somewhere would be telling us
and others would be verifying
it
paul tradingpost@lobo.net
*********** REPLY SEPARATOR
***********
On 6/7/2011 at 7:42 PM John
D'hondt
wrote:
The models are based on
human emissions alone, and do
not
include
heat-amplifying
feedbacks from melting ice or changes
in
carbon
sinks.
When those are factored
in, it moves the timetable forward
so
that
"reaching four degrees
by 2060 is a plausible,
worst-case
scenario"
with
the median being 2070.
By 2100, 5.5 degrees is possible,
he
said.
If it only includes human
emissions and doesn't
consider
melting
hydrates, permafrost
decay, or feedbacks, then it isn't
even
close
to
the worst case
scenario.
Everyone is so afraid to
speak the whole truth on this
topic
because
the
whole truth is worse than
the
"alarmists".
Dan
C.
I could not agree more Dan.
Imo most people, even
scientists,
might
not
be
able to take the whole
truth. Our species is very good
at
extremely
over
simplified dichotomies. Most
are by now convinced climate
change
is
taking
place. Ice is melting
everywhere. But is that our fault? Or
is
the
sun
indeed putting out more
enery?
Worst case scenario is if
both are right at the same time.
There
were
times
on earth that CO2 levels
were higher than they are now and
life
was
abundant. So why panic if we
should move towards the same
levels
of
green
house gas as in the
Carboniferous?
If at the same time the sun
puts out more energy we may
very
well
all
get
fried is
why.
So many factors are still
uncertain, ice is melting and
sea
water
levels
should be rising. Instead we
seem to have had a sea level
drop
of
10
mm
in
just a few years according
to some research and this scares me
seriously.
If that research is correct
then where did all that water
(many,
many
cubic
miles of water)
go?
It is almost a certainty
that if both humans and the sun
are
responsible
that we may loose all water
on Earth eventually. Just maybe
this
is
what
is
happening already. And maybe
this is the reason that
serious
people
have
the
luxury to still be
discussing temperature rises in
single
digits.
Water
escaping the atmosphere
would have a serious cooling effect
for
a
while.
Nothing new here, at the
very moment the Turks
attacking
Byzantium
were
breaking down the gates of
that city the theologians
inside
where
discussing
with vigour the question of
how many angels could dance at
the
one
time
on
the point of a
needle.
In a real worst case
scenario we may be getting
temperature
rises
of
a
few
hundred
degrees.
John
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