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  • From: Mary Dahout <naturalways@san.rr.com>
  • To: Healthy soil and sustainable growing <livingontheland@lists.ibiblio.org>
  • Subject: Re: [Livingontheland] Hydroponics & Soil Organisms
  • Date: Sat, 15 Aug 2009 21:16:32 -0700

Paul,
Can you tell us about the type of gardening you use? Do you have a website?
Mary
On Aug 15, 2009, at 8:25 PM, Tradingpost wrote:


You wrote
Its also important to remember that the purpose of soil is to hold up the
plants and to hold nutrients that are then taken up by the plants. In our
case, we use other substrates to hold up plants and supply the nutrients in
with the water.

Sorry but that's the old view promoted by all peddlers of hydroponic equipment and supplies, hundreds of them if Google is any indication. It's also the old philosophy of chemical agribusiness. The idea that soil is nothing but an inert way to hold up plants and hold nutrients for them has been discarded by decades of soil science. Soil is an active process nurturing an incredible microbial population that produces nutrients in symbiosis with plants. This process cannot take place in water. On this subject I'd suggest starting with The Soil and Health: A Study of Organic Agriculture, by Sir Albert Howard, 1947.

And I must add, the hanging gardens of Babylon and the Mayan civilization were not hydroponic - contrary to the claims of the peddlers. They grew on islands in soil.

We have customers who won't buy tomatoes unless we assure them it's not hydroponic. And we offer them samples on the spot, and they have their answer. Of course after you spend so much setting up hydroponic you can't say anything but how great it is. Otherwise ...

paul tradingpost@lobo.net


*********** REPLY SEPARATOR ***********

On 8/15/2009 at 4:38 PM Diane Kann wrote:

We have not had any brix testing done, though are considering. I know
that
some of the universities have done various tests (they have the $$ to do
so!) including brix. I believe Disney's Epcot has, too.

As I said, we have many happy customers who come here, bypassing farms
growing in the ground, to purchase our produce as they believe it is more
flavorful and nutritious than the other produce they can find (at
groceries,
but also farmers markets, coops, and area farms) Is hydroponics always
better? I doubt it. But it certainly can be very competitive. Expensive
to set up? In many cases, though there are those who have set ups that
were
low initial cost. And traditional? Actually, hydroponics is very old---
the hanging gardens of Babylon, the Mayan civilization,....there are
examples from long ago when hydroponics was successfully incorporated into
agricultural life.

Its also important to remember that the purpose of soil is to hold up the
plants and to hold nutrients that are then taken up by the plants. In our
case, we use other substrates to hold up plants and supply the nutrients in
with the water. Similar philosophy but different technique.

Diane K
very THANKFUL homeschool Mom to 9 blessings in
Christmas, FL
http://hocfarms.com

On Fri, Aug 14, 2009 at 1:39 AM, <realfood@wonderfulfarm.com> wrote:

Have you done brix testing on your veggies Diane?

Blessings,

Aliza


“Don’t ask what the world needs. Ask what makes you come alive, and go do
it. Because what the world needs is people who have come alive.” Howard
Thurman


-------- Original Message --------
Subject: Re: [Livingontheland] Hydroponics & Soil Organisms
From: Diane Kann <dianek59@gmail.com>
Date: Thu, August 13, 2009 12:22 pm
To: Healthy soil and sustainable growing
<livingontheland@lists.ibiblio.org>

We grow just about everything using hydro or aquaponics. Lettuce,
spinach, and most greens are naturals for water systems, but most plants
can
be grown very well, depending on how they are kept. A big advantage of
hydroponics or aquaponics is that we can completely control how much of
which nutrients a plant is offered and also the amount of water it
receives. Some plants do best with less nutrient, others more. Some
need a
lot of water, others less. Tomatoes, for instance, are heavy feeders and
fruit best when water levels are more consistant. We can monitor all of
that and ensure best conditions. By using separate timers, we can water
our
tomatoes more than our radishes. Everyone gets ideal levels. Our soil
here
in Florida needs a great deal of work to grow things well. Our pastures
are
good, but we would need to irrigate and heavily fertilize for vegetables.
Yes, we are able to grow more product in a smaller space (though that is
not
a huge benefit for us as we have 50 acres, except that we can use less
shade
cloth as needed).
Our big benefits come in the perfection of the product--our customers
come
to us because our product does have superior nutrition and flavor. That
comes with careful monitoring of the systems, of course and it is very
possible to water or feed at less or more than optimal amounts (water
logged
fruit and veggies are just not that flavorful!!). Soil grown in more
forgiving in some of this, as it allows for more drainage and plants
naturally pull in the nutrients they need (assuming they are there and
assuming that the pH levels are in proper range, etc) But properly done,
hydoponics is an important growing system that has been proven to be even
more beneficial in depleted areas.
As for organic, there are organic fertilizers that some of us use and
plenty of organic pesticide options. We maintain organic standards, in
additon to being hydroponic. It is actually easier in some ways-- since
our
plants are out of the soil, we avoid most soil born pests and disease.
Also, we can handpick the few windblown weeds that enter the system. The
set up cost is high for most types of systems and it can be more work
than
growing in the ground. But we see a greater yield and a longer growing
season than ground methods.
Is hydroponics for everyone? Probably not. But it can be at least as
good
as ground growing and in some areas, is far superior.

Diane K
very THANKFUL homeschool Mom to 9 blessings in
Christmas, FL

On Thu, Aug 13, 2009 at 1:18 PM, Tradingpost <tradingpost@lobo.net>
wrote:


But are you growing aquatic plants that naturally grow in water? I've
always wondered why people try to grow soil plants in water when the
produce
doesn't taste right or have the same nutritional value. And how the
downside
can justify all the added expense of hydroponics. If you're looking for
a
genuine space saving system of growing, I have it.

paul tradingpost@lobo.net


*********** REPLY SEPARATOR ***********

On 8/13/2009 at 5:30 AM Diane Kann wrote:

We do mostly hydroponics using a fish based fertilizer but are steadily
moving toward more aquaponics where living fish feed the plants and the
plants cleanse the water for the fish. A good aquaponics system can
be a
complete eco-system. For a school project, I might lean more toward
the
aquaponics model. Fish can be grown for food (tilapia are popular) or
simply for nutrient production (some use goldfish or koi for straight
production)

Diane K
very THANKFUL homeschool Mom to 9 blessings in
Christmas, FL
http://hocfarms.com

On Tue, Aug 11, 2009 at 9:00 AM, Marty Kraft <martyk@allspecies.org>
wrote:

I have been helping a school start a no-till organic garden. Now they
are applying a for a grant doing hydroponics. Are there hydroponic
systems that use various beneficial microorganisms to feed the
plants? I must admit to some prejudice about avoiding soil to produce
plants but have a small window of open mindedness on the subject. I
know most are busy but experience or references i would be
appreciated.

Marty Kraft
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