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livingontheland - Re: [Livingontheland] Hydroponics & Soil Organisms

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Subject: Healthy soil and sustainable growing

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  • From: Diane Kann <dianek59@gmail.com>
  • To: Healthy soil and sustainable growing <livingontheland@lists.ibiblio.org>
  • Subject: Re: [Livingontheland] Hydroponics & Soil Organisms
  • Date: Sun, 16 Aug 2009 17:46:24 -0400

I'm not trying to argue with you and I agree that there are those that hold your philosophy as to soil grown is best.  But there are those, including myself, who hold that hydroponics can be just as good as soil grown.  Soil in itself is inert but it does hold a huge amount of nutrients, including microbials.  There we agree.  However, water is also capable of handling the job.  I've studied hydroponics and aquaponics for several years before making the jump and for us, it was the right move.  Is it the best for everyone?  Probably not. 

History that I have studied does show the hanging gardens and Mayan cultures to have been truly hydroponic.  If you have proof that they were not, I'd certainly be open to learning. 

Again, Paul, I'm not trying to argue with you.  We obviously have differing viewpoints, although I think we agree on trying to keep our soils as natural and healthy as possible.    Our pastures are kept naturally fertilized and we use rotational grazing to keep them well.  For produce, we prefer hydroponics.  It works for us.

Diane K
very THANKFUL homeschool Mom to 9 blessings in
Christmas, FL
http://hocfarms.com

On Sat, Aug 15, 2009 at 11:25 PM, Tradingpost <tradingpost@lobo.net> wrote:

You wrote
>Its also important to remember that the purpose of soil is to hold up the
>plants and to hold nutrients that are then taken up by the plants.  In our
>case, we use other substrates to hold up plants and supply the nutrients in
>with the water.

Sorry but that's the old view promoted by all peddlers of hydroponic equipment and supplies, hundreds of them if Google is any indication. It's also the old philosophy of chemical agribusiness. The idea that soil is nothing but an inert way to hold up plants and hold nutrients for them has been discarded by decades of soil science. Soil is an active process nurturing an incredible microbial population that produces nutrients in symbiosis with plants. This process cannot take place in water. On this subject I'd suggest starting with The Soil and Health: A Study of Organic Agriculture, by Sir Albert Howard, 1947.

And I must add, the hanging gardens of Babylon and the Mayan civilization were not hydroponic - contrary to the claims of the peddlers. They grew on islands in soil.

We have customers who won't buy tomatoes unless we assure them it's not hydroponic. And we offer them samples on the spot, and they have their answer. Of course after you spend so much setting up hydroponic you can't say anything but how great it is. Otherwise ...

paul tradingpost@lobo.net


*********** REPLY SEPARATOR  ***********

On 8/15/2009 at 4:38 PM Diane Kann wrote:

>We have not had any brix testing done, though are considering.  I know
>that
>some of the universities have done various tests (they have the $$ to do
>so!) including brix.  I believe Disney's Epcot has, too.
>
>As I said, we have many happy customers who come here, bypassing farms
>growing in the ground, to purchase our produce as they believe it is more
>flavorful and nutritious than the other produce they can find (at
>groceries,
>but also farmers markets, coops, and area farms)  Is hydroponics always
>better?  I doubt it.  But it certainly can be very competitive.  Expensive
>to set up?  In many cases, though there are those who have set ups that
>were
>low initial cost.  And traditional?  Actually, hydroponics is very old---
>the hanging gardens of Babylon, the Mayan civilization,....there are
>examples from long ago when hydroponics was successfully incorporated into
>agricultural life.
>
>Its also important to remember that the purpose of soil is to hold up the
>plants and to hold nutrients that are then taken up by the plants.  In our
>case, we use other substrates to hold up plants and supply the nutrients in
>with the water.  Similar philosophy but different technique.
>
>Diane K
>very THANKFUL homeschool Mom to 9 blessings in
>Christmas, FL
>http://hocfarms.com
>
>On Fri, Aug 14, 2009 at 1:39 AM, <realfood@wonderfulfarm.com> wrote:
>
>> Have you done brix testing on your veggies Diane?
>>
>> Blessings,
>>
>> Aliza
>>
>>
>> “Don’t ask what the world needs. Ask what makes you come alive, and go do
>> it. Because what the world needs is people who have come alive.” Howard
>> Thurman
>>
>>
>>  -------- Original Message --------
>> Subject: Re: [Livingontheland] Hydroponics & Soil Organisms
>> From: Diane Kann <dianek59@gmail.com>
>> Date: Thu, August 13, 2009 12:22 pm
>> To: Healthy soil and sustainable growing
>> <livingontheland@lists.ibiblio.org>
>>
>> We grow just about everything using hydro  or aquaponics.  Lettuce,
>> spinach, and most greens are naturals for water systems, but most plants
>can
>> be grown very well, depending on how they are kept.  A big advantage of
>> hydroponics or aquaponics is that we can completely control how much of
>> which nutrients a plant is offered and also the amount of water it
>> receives.  Some plants do best with less nutrient, others more.  Some
>need a
>> lot of water, others less.  Tomatoes, for instance, are heavy feeders and
>> fruit best when water levels are more consistant.  We can monitor all of
>> that and ensure best conditions.  By using separate timers, we can water
>our
>> tomatoes more than our radishes.  Everyone gets ideal levels.  Our soil
>here
>> in Florida needs a great deal of work to grow things well.  Our pastures
>are
>> good, but we would need to irrigate and heavily fertilize for vegetables.
>> Yes, we are able to grow more product in a smaller space (though that is
>not
>> a huge benefit for us as we have 50 acres, except that we can use less
>shade
>> cloth as needed).
>> Our big benefits come in the perfection of the product--our customers
>come
>> to us because our product does have superior nutrition and flavor.  That
>> comes with careful monitoring of the systems, of course and it is very
>> possible to water or feed at less or more than optimal amounts (water
>logged
>> fruit and veggies are just not that flavorful!!).  Soil grown in more
>> forgiving in some of this, as it allows for more drainage and plants
>> naturally pull in the nutrients they need (assuming they are there and
>> assuming that the pH levels are in proper range, etc)  But properly done,
>> hydoponics is an important growing system that has been proven to be even
>> more beneficial in depleted areas.
>> As for organic, there are organic fertilizers that some of us use and
>> plenty of organic pesticide options.  We maintain organic standards, in
>> additon to being hydroponic.  It is actually easier in some ways--since
>our
>> plants are out of the soil, we avoid most soil born pests and disease.
>> Also, we can handpick the few windblown weeds that enter the system.  The
>> set up cost is high for most types of systems and it can be more work
>than
>> growing in the ground.  But we see a greater yield and a longer growing
>> season than ground methods.
>> Is hydroponics for everyone?  Probably not.  But it can be at least as
>good
>> as ground growing and in some areas, is far superior.
>>
>> Diane K
>> very THANKFUL homeschool Mom to 9 blessings in
>> Christmas, FL
>>
>> On Thu, Aug 13, 2009 at 1:18 PM, Tradingpost <tradingpost@lobo.net>
>wrote:
>>
>>>
>>> But are you growing aquatic plants that naturally grow in water? I've
>>> always wondered why people try to grow soil plants in water when the
>produce
>>> doesn't taste right or have the same nutritional value. And how the
>downside
>>> can justify all the added expense of hydroponics. If you're looking for
>a
>>> genuine space saving system of growing, I have it.
>>>
>>> paul tradingpost@lobo.net
>>>
>>>
>>> *********** REPLY SEPARATOR  ***********
>>>
>>> On 8/13/2009 at 5:30 AM Diane Kann wrote:
>>>
>>> >We do mostly hydroponics using a fish based fertilizer but are steadily
>>> >moving toward more aquaponics where living fish feed the plants and the
>>> >plants cleanse the water for the fish.  A good aquaponics system can
>be a
>>> >complete eco-system.  For a school project, I might lean more toward
>the
>>> >aquaponics model.  Fish can be grown for food (tilapia are popular) or
>>> >simply for nutrient production (some use goldfish or koi for straight
>>> >production)
>>> >
>>> >Diane K
>>> >very THANKFUL homeschool Mom to 9 blessings in
>>> >Christmas, FL
>>> >http://hocfarms.com
>>> >
>>> >On Tue, Aug 11, 2009 at 9:00 AM, Marty Kraft <martyk@allspecies.org>
>>> wrote:
>>> >
>>> >> I have been helping a school start a no-till organic garden. Now they
>>> >> are applying a for a grant doing hydroponics. Are there hydroponic
>>> >> systems that use various beneficial microorganisms to feed the
>>> >> plants? I must admit to some prejudice about avoiding soil to produce
>>> >> plants but have a small window of open mindedness on the subject. I
>>> >> know most are busy but experience or references i would be
>appreciated.
>>> >>
>>> >> Marty Kraft
>>> >> _______________________________________________
>>> >> Livingontheland mailing list
>>> >> Livingontheland@lists.ibiblio.org
>>> >> http://lists.ibiblio.org/mailman/listinfo/livingontheland
>>> >>
>>> >
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>>
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