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Subject: Healthy soil and sustainable growing

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  • From: "Lawren Pulse" <lawren@procast.com>
  • To: <livingontheland@lists.ibiblio.org>
  • Subject: Re: [Livingontheland] Livingontheland Digest, Vol 145, Issue 1
  • Date: Mon, 2 Jun 2008 11:12:14 -0700

Yes algae is the solution and doesn't need to take up valuable farm land.
My husband's company is developing technology to do just this! I have hope
too! Why not focus on solutions (vs problems)?

-----Original Message-----
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livingontheland-request@lists.ibiblio.org
Sent: Monday, June 02, 2008 10:21 AM
To: livingontheland@lists.ibiblio.org
Subject: Livingontheland Digest, Vol 145, Issue 1

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Today's Topics:

1. Re: Price of Ferilizer/fuel (anna Lorrai)
2. Re: we'll have to confront the farm-labor crisis (Dean)
3. Re: Wasted fertilizer (anna Lorrai)
4. Re: we'll have to confront the farm-labor crisis
(Ken Hargesheimer)
5. Re: we'll have to confront the farm-labor crisis (Liz)
6. Feeding frenzy (Tradingpost)
7. Re: we'll have to confront the farm-labor (elderberryjam)
8. Re: we'll have to confront the farm-labor crisis (BirdWalk)
9. Re: Price of Ferilizer/fuel (mdnagel@verizon.net)
10. Re: Feeding frenzy (Liz)
11. Re: Wasted fertilizer (Liz)
12. Re: we'll have to confront the farm-labor crisis
(Ken Hargesheimer)
13. Re: Wasted fertilizer (Ken Hargesheimer)
14. Re: Wasted fertilizer (BirdWalk)
15. Re: Wasted fertilizer (anna Lorrai)


----------------------------------------------------------------------

Message: 1
Date: Sun, 1 Jun 2008 09:56:01 -0700 (PDT)
From: anna Lorrai <cactusandquail@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: [Livingontheland] Price of Ferilizer/fuel
To: livingontheland@lists.ibiblio.org
Message-ID: <416128.28082.qm@web39108.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"

I'm not going to argue with you fellows. I just think you're not getting my
point. Biofuel from algae doesn't take away from our food source and it can
be grown on waste water. it's efficient in my opinion. So if that's your
reality, that's fine, but I would like to see a new reality. Anna

Ken Hargesheimer <minifarms2@yahoo.com> wrote: It is not "disenchanted"
but reality. Biofuels/agrifuels, in my opinion, will never compete with oil
because we must use the land and water for food; not to power vehicles.

There is enough oil in the earth and it can be taken without damaging the
earth if the corporations were willing but they do not care. Look what they
have done to the jungle and Indians in Ecuador.

Ken

anna Lorrai <cactusandquail@yahoo.com> wrote:
Most of the algae start ups are privately owned. Sorry to hear that you
are so disenchanted with the whole concept. Lot's of things take years to
get rolling. Anna _______________________________________________
Livingontheland mailing list
Livingontheland@lists.ibiblio.org
http://lists.ibiblio.org/mailman/listinfo/livingontheland




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Message: 2
Date: Sun, 1 Jun 2008 11:30:31 -0600
From: "Dean" <andeanfx@midrivers.com>
Subject: Re: [Livingontheland] we'll have to confront the farm-labor
crisis
To: "Healthy soil and sustainable growing"
<livingontheland@lists.ibiblio.org>
Message-ID: <00a301c8c40d$340e4af0$030aa8c0@travler>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"

We bought some seeds from Baker this past year and I cannot help but
contrast what he is doing as a 27 year old who has wanted to be a seedsman
and work with heirloom seeds all his life with a close relative who is a bit
older but has a truss plant that builds trusses from trees which took quite
some time to grow and often the buildings they go on have the life
expectancy of long term capital gains before they are torn down. A bit of a
difference in posterity. Dean


----- Original Message -----
From: Liz
To: livingontheland@lists.ibiblio.org
Sent: Sunday, June 01, 2008 6:57 AM
Subject: Re: [Livingontheland] we'll have to confront the farm-labor
crisis


At 02:30 PM 5/31/2008, you wrote:


Why do US citizens not want to do this kind of work? The work is
tedious and the pay is low, but it's honest labor for a good cause.


Well--as Dean pointed out, you can't feed your family on those wages.

But I think there's another answer too. There has been such an emphasis on
getting a college degree that pure and simple labor is not seen as dignified
any more. This is another example of unintended outcomes. The original
motivation was to increase the overall level of education, and to encourage
people who would benefit from it but whose families might not have a history
of higher education. But we Americans just go overboard with everything. If
a college education was good, then everybody ought to have one, right? Never
mind that some people really can't do college level work, or that many
people would far rather learn a trade than sit in a classroom. Working with
your hands became something you did only if you couldn't do any better, and
that's a real shame.

Perhaps we have an opportunity now to show that raising food is as
essential and dignified a job as any other. I certainly have good memories
of the days my family spent in the fields and orchards when I was young. It
also taught me that I could have things my family couldn't buy for me if I
earned the money for them. I badly wanted a camera, but there was no way
they could buy that for an eight-year-old. So I picked those prunes off the
ground (yes, that is how "prunes" are picked), and made enough money to buy
one myself. It was a lesson I never forgot, and probably contributed to the
fact that I've been self-employed most of my life.

Liz in SW VA
http://life-as-a-spectator-sport.com


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Message: 3
Date: Sun, 1 Jun 2008 10:54:54 -0700 (PDT)
From: anna Lorrai <cactusandquail@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: [Livingontheland] Wasted fertilizer
To: livingontheland@lists.ibiblio.org
Message-ID: <169600.73466.qm@web39105.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"

Shredded junk mail works too. Anna

Liz <liz@allslash.org> wrote: At 05:33 PM 5/31/2008, you wrote:

>I have been using humanure for the last 8 years with good success,
>but I know what
>went into it. I wouldn't want to use other people's sewage, no
>way! Incidentally, I
>use dried leaves instead of sawdust because we have plenty of dried
>leaves from
>the wooded part of our land. The advantage of dried leaves is that
>the crumbly
>structure of the leaves lets in more air than would be the case with
>sawdust.
>After the initial composting, I mix in some clay.

Thanks for this info. I've been holding off on a sawdust toilet
because I couldn't find a nearby source of free or low-cost sawdust.
We have a large manufactured-wood industry in the local area, and the
sawmills sell their sawdust and wood chips by the truckload. But I do
have a large section of hardwoods, and had wondered whether leaf mold
might work as well as sawdust.



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Message: 4
Date: Sun, 1 Jun 2008 11:45:45 -0700 (PDT)
From: Ken Hargesheimer <minifarms2@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: [Livingontheland] we'll have to confront the farm-labor
crisis
To: Healthy soil and sustainable growing
<livingontheland@lists.ibiblio.org>
Message-ID: <475015.95609.qm@web36508.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"

Last week I completed 13 years as a substitute teacher. I can't live on the
pay but I love to do it.

High schools promote going to college. Everything else is looked down on.
Here in Lubbock TX there is a need for welders [after the one year course in
the community college, by the third year they are making $40,000 per year
with their own truck].

There is an eleven letter dirty word in the English language:
A G R I C U L T U R E. The future in farming and selling locally grown
food, locally, is unlimited. Out of 125 students taking Vo-Ag this past
year only two are interested in production agriculture.

Now that school is out, I will be preparing and submitting a document to
the TOGFA about establishing The Future Organic Farmers of America in the
high schools.

Ken H




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Message: 5
Date: Sun, 01 Jun 2008 15:36:45 -0400
From: Liz <liz@allslash.org>
Subject: Re: [Livingontheland] we'll have to confront the farm-labor
crisis
To: Healthy soil and sustainable growing
<livingontheland@lists.ibiblio.org>
Message-ID: <1212349086_56015@mail2.swva.net>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed

At 08:03 AM 6/1/2008, you wrote:
>My wife is payroll officer at a company that repairs motors and
>transformers. Several employees will not get married [same woman
>and several children and together for many years] and will not work
>for more than 30? hours per week. Why?
>
>They would no longer have welfare checks, etc.
>

Why doesn't the company tell them they have to work 40 hours? It
sounds to me as though the company is complicit in this. Or are they
just not getting paid enough even if they did work 40 hours? They are
probably getting medical help too, and it's really hard to turn your
back on that when you have kids. I'm not defending abuse of the
system, but I know many people who hate being on assistance, but are
afraid that if they turned their backs on the food stamps and
medicare and rent assistance, and some calamity hit them (something
that might not seem like a calamity to people with money, like a
major car repair), they'd just have to apply for help again, and
they'd be that much farther behind.

Like everything else that has gone haywire with today's culture, the
welfare system that was meant to help people has also contributed to
dependency and irresponsibility. It doesn't work to decry just one
aspect of it, as though that existed in isolation from all the rest.
The whole system is screwed.

On the other hand, I suggested once to a person who was squawking
about the "shiftless people on welfare." that he should get together
with his wealthy friends and each family "adopt" one family from the
housing project. Help the parents find jobs, make sure the kids
understood their school assignments and did their homework, help the
older kids with decisions about work and/or further education--in
other words, do the things that would help get these folk off
welfare. He looked at me like I was nuts, and said that wasn't "his
problem." He didn't want government to help, but he didn't want to
put himself out to help either. He just wanted those dirty,
dark-skinned, criminal, baby-making people to go away. If not for
that kind of attitude, we wouldn't need government assistance. And
there are many people who are willing to help, but who don't know how
to go about it, or who assume that since government is taking care of
it that they don't need to. That's why I said the whole system is messed up.

I think we've gotten far enough away from the purpose of the list
that I'm not going to comment any further on this topic. We all have
different opinions, and I don't claim that mine is any better than
anyone else's.

Liz in SW VA
http://life-as-a-spectator-sport.com



------------------------------

Message: 6
Date: Sun, 01 Jun 2008 13:47:52 -0600
From: "Tradingpost" <tradingpost@lobo.net>
Subject: [Livingontheland] Feeding frenzy
To: livingontheland@lists.ibiblio.org
Message-ID: <200806011347520161.5D40EAFA@mail.lobo.net>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1"


For some time we've been warning that industral agriculture is headed for
trouble, and we can take steps to protect ourselves locally. Now it's
approaching critical. First excerpts, then whole article from the UK. Eight
more pages at that link.

paul tradingpost@lobo.net
------------------------------------------

... in the more than 3? decades he has been farming, he has never seen
anything quite like this. The prices of wheat, corn, soybeans and rice more
than doubled in value in the span of several months, sowing equal measures
of confusion and fear in the American heartland.in the more than 3? decades
he has been farming, he has never seen anything quite like this. The prices
of wheat, corn, soybeans and rice more than doubled in value in the span of
several months, sowing equal measures of confusion and fear in the American
heartland. ... At the same time, the costs of fertilizer, herbicides and
fuel - all crucial to agriculture - have skyrocketed to record heights: Mr.
Giessel's expenses alone jumped half a million dollars in the past year,
twice what they normally are.

One big culprit in the global food crisis has been overlooked: The money.
Pension and index funds used a loophole to plow hundreds of billions of
dollars into commodities markets. .. These funds have plowed tens of
billions of dollars into agricultural commodities as a way to diversify
their assets and improve returns for their investors. .. The amount of fund
money invested in commodity indexes has climbed from just $13-billion (U.S.)
in 2003 to a staggering $260-billion in March, 2008, according to
calculations based on regulatory filings.

Michael Masters, a veteran U.S. hedge fund manager, warned a Senate hearing
this month that this number could easily quadruple to $1-trillion ... "If
immediate action is not taken, food and energy prices will rise higher
still," he told the hearing. "This could have catastrophic economic effects
on millions of already stressed U.S. consumers. It literally could mean
starvation for millions of the world's poor."
-----

Feeding frenzy
May 31, 2008
http://www.theglobeandmail.com/servlet/story/LAC.20080531.RCOVER31/TPStory/T
PBusiness/America/

One big culprit in the global food crisis has been overlooked: The money.
Pension and index funds used a loophole to plow hundreds of billions of
dollars into commodities markets

LARNED, KAN. -- Tom Giessel rubs the heel of his palm against his forehead,
exhales a moment, and then begins again, trying to make sense of how the
global food market has suddenly descended into chaos.

He is seated on a couch in his modest white farmhouse, surrounded by acres
of wheat that in a few days will begin to flower, blanketing this central
Kansas town with millions of tiny green beards. Beside him, a sheaf of dried
wheat spills out of a vase, while across the room, a stylized crucifix looms
above the entrance to the kitchen, a solitary stem writhing on the cross.

For three generations, grain has been his family's lifeblood, a source of
sustenance and pride, reward and hardship.

Mr. Giessel, 55, lived through the Russian Wheat Deal in the 1970s, when a
sudden rise in exports to the Soviet Union sparked a boom in prices. He has
endured credit crises, political embargoes, and the vicissitudes of weather
and drought.

Yet in the more than 3? decades he has been farming, he has never seen
anything quite like this. The prices of wheat, corn, soybeans and rice more
than doubled in value in the span of several months, sowing equal measures
of confusion and fear in the American heartland. Commodities markets, where
these prices take their cue, have become so unpredictable that farmers now
liken them to blackjack tables in Las Vegas.

At the same time, the costs of fertilizer, herbicides and fuel - all crucial
to agriculture - have skyrocketed to record heights: Mr. Giessel's expenses
alone jumped half a million dollars in the past year, twice what they
normally are.

"It used to be that I could figure on things from year to year," shrugs Mr.
Giessel, a stout man with dark eyes, thick forearms and a weathered
countenance. "But now it's like driving down the road with no headlights.
You can look out the window and see the white lines, but you don't know what
the hell you're going to hit. This is the most risk I've been exposed to
since I started farming."

The problems here go well beyond the Kansas border. The record escalation of
food prices has played havoc with every link in the food chain, from grain
merchants to futures markets, from publicly traded food companies to
consumers.

Producers such as Mr. Giessel now find themselves on the front line of a
mushrooming global crisis, one that has sparked violent protests in some of
the world's poorest countries, prompting aid agencies to warn of a pending
humanitarian catastrophe.

In the search for answers, pundits have attempted to pin the blame on the
usual suspects: rising demand from China and India, bad crop conditions and
booming ethanol production.

Yet one major culprit behind these gyrating markets and unprecedented price
spikes has been largely overlooked: the deep-pocketed pension and index
funds upon which most Canadians and Americans depend for their retirements.

These funds have plowed tens of billions of dollars into agricultural
commodities as a way to diversify their assets and improve returns for their
investors.

The amount of fund money invested in commodity indexes has climbed from just
$13-billion (U.S.) in 2003 to a staggering $260-billion in March, 2008,
according to calculations based on regulatory filings.

Michael Masters, a veteran U.S. hedge fund manager, warned a Senate hearing
this month that this number could easily quadruple to $1-trillion, if
pension funds allocate a greater portion of their portfolio to commodities,
as some consultants suggest they are poised to do. Because agricultural
markets are small - relative to stock markets - the amount of cash pouring
in gives these funds substantial clout. Mr. Masters estimated that that
these big institutional investors control enough wheat futures to supply the
needs of American consumers for the next two years, and blamed the "demand
shock" from these recent entrants to the commodities markets as arguably the
primary factor behind the sudden take-off in food prices.

"If immediate action is not taken, food and energy prices will rise higher
still," he told the hearing. "This could have catastrophic economic effects
on millions of already stressed U.S. consumers. It literally could mean
starvation for millions of the world's poor."

Continued on Page 2?
http://www.theglobeandmail.com/servlet/story/LAC.20080531.RCOVER31/TPStory/T
PBusiness/America/?pageRequested=2
Page 1 of 9




------------------------------

Message: 7
Date: Sun, 1 Jun 2008 16:03:23 -0400
From: "elderberryjam" <elderberryjam@zippytech.com>
Subject: Re: [Livingontheland] we'll have to confront the farm-labor
To: <livingontheland@lists.ibiblio.org>
Message-ID: <001401c8c422$8c55bb20$ca0010ac@thewizkid>
Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1";
reply-type=original

"At first glance, New York would seem a particularly ripe state for a
midsized farm renaissance. It boasts a bustling metropolis -- the nation's
largest -- with a strong and growing locavore scene."

For some reason, this thread makes me think of the Drover's Trail, the old
trail from the west, to NY where animals were driven for food before the
RR's were put in. Yesterday we spent several hours beside it or on it, at
the mouth where Pipe Creek runs into the Ohio, at Dilles Bottom, OH. That is

where the Plymouth Reliant that belonged to my grandfather - a car that has
been resurrected several times for my children - was ditched when its fuel
line broke the night before. My kids got a ride home and left it there, for
me to take care of later.

My husband and I took them right back down, and made them help fix the fuel
line to get it home. As we were standing around, "helping," I explained to
them about how this used to be where the animals crossed the river ages ago.

The water was shallow at the bend at Dilles Bottom, before they put in the
locks way upriver. Now the old Drovers Trail is a county road that follows
Pipe Creek up to Key Ridge. We walked over to the ledge where the bank
dropped away below, and a mother duck and 5 ducklings were swimming
peacefully up-creek. The water was muddy from recent storms. This was also
one of the 2 creeks involved in the "Flood of Tears," in Shadyside, OH one
June the 1980's; a 100 year flood that dropped several inches of rain in a
short period of time on the ridges, creating a wall of water coming down
Pipe and Weegee Creeks. One person told me he had just built a new garage,
and it would have stood the flood just fine, if his sister's house hadn't
run into it. One of my grandfathers had told me years before he died of such

a flood. He was county commissioner, and he was angry that nobody was going
along with him in not permitting people to build along those two creeks. He
told me lives were going to be lost. They were, but he wasn't still alive to

witness it.

The animals first traveled along National Road/Route 40, but as it became
more populated, the uppity folks insisted that the animals be driven
eastward on a route further south. Hence the existance of the Drovers Trail.

Someone keeps a nice little boer goat farm near the mouth, with a blade
sharpening business, today.

And up in Key where the trail comes out onto the ridge, the only local
farmer who openly hired migrant labor has a big farm. Many people complained

about his bringing these kinds of people in, and it was a topic of
discussion for several years.

Historically, it seems to all tie together. The same sorts of contraversies
repeat themselves in different ways.

Gwen



------------------------------

Message: 8
Date: Sun, 1 Jun 2008 18:28:33 -0500
From: "BirdWalk" <birdwalk@frontiernet.net>
Subject: Re: [Livingontheland] we'll have to confront the farm-labor
crisis
To: "'Healthy soil and sustainable growing'"
<livingontheland@lists.ibiblio.org>
Message-ID:
<20080601232830.A9184ABF3B@relay01.roch.ny.frontiernet.net>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

Because 30 hours is part time - thus no benefit package the company saves
money with more 'part' timers


Why doesn't the company tell them they have to work 40 hours? It
sounds to me as though the company is complicit in this



------------------------------

Message: 9
Date: Sun, 01 Jun 2008 20:01:01 -0500 (CDT)
From: <mdnagel@verizon.net>
Subject: Re: [Livingontheland] Price of Ferilizer/fuel
To: Healthy soil and sustainable growing
<livingontheland@lists.ibiblio.org>
Message-ID:
<12699864.3501351212368461586.JavaMail.root@vms124.mailsrvcs.net>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8

The devil is in the details.

That waste water comes from where? And how far does it have to be pumped?
(NOTE: 10% of all of California's energy is consumed pumping water; this
isn't a small issue.) More infrastructure, means more long-term
maintenance.

What might be displaced by such facilities? Keep in mind that nothing truly
is "wasteland:" everything developed to a certain state as a result of
balance; what affects would any large-scale change on such "wasteland"
occur?

There is, and never will be, a concentrated energy source like fossil fuels
(unless you want to hang around for a few million years). Algae-based fuels
or any other non-mineral fuels, and even a combination of all, will not be
able to match existing and future demands. And keep in mind that the
workhorse, fossil fuels, will continue in decline, which leaves us facing an
inevitable and ever-increasing energy gap.

ALL energy sources were in some way, most in a large way, the product of
solar gain. One cannot speed up this process, be it mineral fuels or
otherwise, without it costing energy in the process: think tar sands
(speaking of which, they didn't think that their operations would have any
significant impact on the lands up there in Canada; well, they were clearly
wrong).

Algae would only perpetuate the faulty transportation-based/centralize food
system that we now have. Sure, one could advocate that such energy sources
be produced and used locally, but do you really think that that would
happen? Not as long as the current "free market" system is operating (and
is able to subsidize the externalized costs of scaling up such energy
sources).


-Mark Nagel
Everett, WA


From: anna Lorrai <cactusandquail@yahoo.com>

I'm not going to argue with you fellows. I just think you're not getting my
point. Biofuel from algae doesn't take away from our food source and it can
be grown on waste water. it's efficient in my opinion. So if that's your
reality, that's fine, but I would like to see a new reality. Anna


------------------------------

Message: 10
Date: Sun, 01 Jun 2008 20:18:05 -0400
From: Liz <liz@allslash.org>
Subject: Re: [Livingontheland] Feeding frenzy
To: Healthy soil and sustainable growing
<livingontheland@lists.ibiblio.org>
Message-ID: <1212374946_56212@mail2.swva.net>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed

At 03:47 PM 6/1/2008, you wrote:

>For some time we've been warning that industral agriculture is
>headed for trouble, and we can take steps to protect ourselves
>locally. Now it's approaching critical. First excerpts, then whole
>article from the UK. Eight more pages at that link.

Hm. My housemate has a federal pension. Wonder what that's invested
in. Wonder if they would even tell him if he asked.

Liz in SW VA
http://life-as-a-spectator-sport.com



------------------------------

Message: 11
Date: Sun, 01 Jun 2008 20:19:46 -0400
From: Liz <liz@allslash.org>
Subject: Re: [Livingontheland] Wasted fertilizer
To: Healthy soil and sustainable growing
<livingontheland@lists.ibiblio.org>
Message-ID: <1212374957_56215@mail2.swva.net>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

At 01:54 PM 6/1/2008, you wrote:
>Shredded junk mail works too. Anna

I've thought about that too, but I've been so aggressive in getting
off people's mailing lists that I don't actually get a huge amount of
it any more. But it would still be a useful addition to the other media.

Liz in SW VA
http://life-as-a-spectator-sport.com
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Message: 12
Date: Mon, 2 Jun 2008 04:51:00 -0700 (PDT)
From: Ken Hargesheimer <minifarms2@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: [Livingontheland] we'll have to confront the farm-labor
crisis
To: Healthy soil and sustainable growing
<livingontheland@lists.ibiblio.org>
Message-ID: <606013.2013.qm@web36501.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"

They get company benefits. Are considered "skill" labor.
Ken

BirdWalk <birdwalk@frontiernet.net> wrote:
Because 30 hours is part time - thus no benefit package the company saves
money with more 'part' timers


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Message: 13
Date: Mon, 2 Jun 2008 04:54:41 -0700 (PDT)
From: Ken Hargesheimer <minifarms2@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: [Livingontheland] Wasted fertilizer
To: Healthy soil and sustainable growing
<livingontheland@lists.ibiblio.org>
Message-ID: <299498.6919.qm@web36503.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"

To stop receiving junk mail, open every one. Those containing
self-addressed, postage paid, envelopes/cards, write on the portion with
your name and address "NO Thanks" and send it back to them. They pay 42?
postage and 50? handling. They will not send you any more junk mail.

Ken

Liz <liz@allslash.org> wrote:
At 01:54 PM 6/1/2008, you wrote:
Shredded junk mail works too. Anna

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Message: 14
Date: Mon, 2 Jun 2008 09:17:43 -0500
From: "BirdWalk" <birdwalk@frontiernet.net>
Subject: Re: [Livingontheland] Wasted fertilizer
To: "'Healthy soil and sustainable growing'"
<livingontheland@lists.ibiblio.org>
Message-ID:
<20080602141741.2810CABF58@relay01.roch.ny.frontiernet.net>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"

And those places that send checks for 50 cent to perhaps $5 asking you to
send them back with your added donation or rest of payment for sewing
machine etc. those are cashable. We deposit them. Those companies drop
you like a hot potato.



-----Original Message-----


"NO Thanks" and send it back to them. They pay 42? postage and 50?
handling. They will not send you any more junk mail.

Ken




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Message: 15
Date: Mon, 2 Jun 2008 08:32:11 -0700 (PDT)
From: anna Lorrai <cactusandquail@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: [Livingontheland] Wasted fertilizer
To: livingontheland@lists.ibiblio.org
Message-ID: <424050.97575.qm@web39105.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"

I've done all that. Sending mail back, opening and sending it back so they
pay postage. Writing and requesting no mail and it keeps on. Now, I shred it
and use it to raise worms, add in holes for trees and compost. I personally
think there should be a law that you can not contact a person for business
either by mail or phone without their written consent. I'm not talking about
businesses you choose to do business with. It's a violation of privacy and
a waste of energy. There's lots of places to advertise without invading
peoples mailboxes or homes on phones they pay for. Anna

Ken Hargesheimer <minifarms2@yahoo.com> wrote:
To stop receiving junk mail, open every one. Those containing
self-addressed, postage paid, envelopes/cards, write on the portion with
your name and address "NO Thanks" and send it back to them. They pay 42?
postage and 50? handling. They will not send you any more junk mail.

Ken

Liz <liz@allslash.org> wrote:
At 01:54 PM 6/1/2008, you wrote:
Shredded junk mail works too. Anna
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End of Livingontheland Digest, Vol 145, Issue 1
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