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  • From: "Lynn Wigglesworth" <lynnw1366 AT hotmail.com>
  • To: <homestead AT lists.ibiblio.org>
  • Subject: Re: [Homestead] Has anyone heard about this?
  • Date: Tue, 21 Jul 2009 23:01:04 -0400

If you recall, there was also a big stink about people accessing Joe the Plumber's records. People do things like that. I assume if there had been any juicy information about Obama, we'd have heard. We sure got juicy trash about Joe.

The records might say how long Obama's had a US passport, but they don't record where you have been. I had a passport in the late 1970's, and travelled to several foreign countries...when I came back, they DID NOT record where I'd been (i.e. what stamps I had). Remember, everything was done by hand and paper then; no global databases. They just recorded that I re-entered the country and checked to make sure it was a legit passport.

You get a new passport when the old one expires; I assume most people throw the old one away, like old Drivers' Licenses (could you produce your Drivers' License from 28 years ago if you needed to prove something?). Your passport pages (the stamps, etc.) aren't, or at least weren't back then, recorded anywhere, so there probably IS nothing to show. And you ABSOLUTELY don't need a 'long form' Birth Certificate to get a passport; it's a federal document, so the rules are the same throughout the country. All I have is the 'short form', and I've gotten a passport, SS#, voter card, etc. It's all the proof I've ever needed that I'm a citizen..I wouldn't even know how to get my 'long form' birth certificate....the state only offers birth and death certificates.

I think many of these websites make a lot of assumptions, then build a case on assumptions.. The WDN says things like " It would have been easier for someone to enter Pakistan on an Indonesian passport." It snowballs from that to people saying therefore he MUST have had an Indonesian passport, therefore he must have been an Indonesian citizen. I've seen no evidence of that, but I did read an article from that era that Americans were warned, but not prohibited, from visiting Pakistan in 1981. I've also looked at Philip Berg's stuff. I see nothing that I would call 'evidence'. As an aside, I wonder if Hillary or John McCain, or any of the other candidates from 2008 have ever been in Pakistan, and if so, did they mention it?

I don't know why I'm defending Obama, except that all this smacks of a witch hunt. People demand a Birth Certificate, and he gives them one, a legitimate one that is accepted by the federal government as proof of citizenship, but it's not good enough. I don't know if you trust any website, but Factcheck.org actually touched and photographed the birth certificate, and are convinced that it's real. Hawaiian officials have stated that it's real, and that they have the original. But there will never be enough proof for some people. There's no point in Obama wasting energy defending himself from people like that.

Lynn Wigglesworth
Tioga Co. PA

----- Original Message ----- From: "EarthNSky" <erthnsky AT bellsouth.net>
To: "Homestead List" <homestead AT lists.ibiblio.org>
Sent: Tuesday, July 21, 2009 6:58 PM
Subject: Re: [Homestead] Has anyone heard about this?


Obama traveled to Pakistan in 1981 when he was 20 years old and in
college. He 'slipped' and disclosed this information during his
campaign-before that, no one knew about his travels in the Muslim
world-odd for a Senator who served on the Senate's foreign relations
committee during a time when we were involved in two wars in that part
of the world-one of which Pakistan plays a crucial role in. It had not
been listed in his books or his political bio-he just blurted it out
when he was talking about foreign policy experience. The question
is, and it is a question that Obama has still not answered, is how was
he able to travel to Pakistan? I have a friend who married a Pakistani
woman at about that time-early 80's. He could not even travel there to
meet her family, even as her husband. Visas were hard to come by if you
weren't a celebrity, a Moslem, or a member of the press or government
official. Most people claim that the US forbade travel to Pakistan, I
don't know about that-I don't think that is true, but I am saying that I
don't think Pakistan would have allowed him in as an American student.
Anyway, the conjecture began as to how Obama could have done this and
why it was not known before.

The Obama people/administration want you to believe that he used his US
passport for those travels. It would be a simple matter to make his
passport pages public and that would nip the whole thing in the bud.
However, his passport seems to be a closely guarded secret. Remember
the hoopla about 3 contract workers accessing his passport back in March
of 2008? You never did hear anything about that, what they were looking
for, or why, other than curiosity, they would have accessed his
documents. I say that when information is accessed three times that it
is more than just curiosity. Who knew what, when, and why is it still
under wraps? Why no outrage of privacy violation or threats of
prosecution by the 'victim' in this case, President Obama? Why don't the
workers who breeched security say "I saw the passport and he traveled to
Pakistan and India and Indonesia on his US passport, or conversely, I
saw the passport and there were no travels to Pakistan..etc. Why the
secrecy? Where are these people? When was Obama's US Passport assigned?

Assuming that he did not have a US passport in 1981, the logical answer
is that he used an Indonesian passport and citizenship for his travels
as he had previously done while traveling as a teen/pre-teen. Indonesia
is the most populous Muslim country in the world, and there would be no
suspicion about an Indonesian visiting Pakistan. The military
government would have quickly granted a Visa to an Indonesian. Most
people believe that per Indonesian law, Obama became an Indonesian
citizen when he was adopted by Barry Soetoro. Apparently, there is a law
that states an adopted child that is 5 or younger automatically becomes
a Indonesian citizen. It all just depends technically on when the
adoption actually happened, when they actually moved back to Indonesia,
and how long it took the beauracratic process to work. Some sources
claim he was 6 at the time and therefore the law would not have been in
effect, but even so, Soetoro could have still made him an Indonesian
citizen to ease his way into the country's public schools(Besuki). At
that time during the campaign last summer, Obama's website,
FighttheSmears, did not refute Berg's allegations that he traveled on an
Indonesian passport, and that blew the door wide open for investigators
to nit-pick into Obama's past. BTW, last time I checked, that website is
no more, which is kind of odd considering that the smear continues on,
even as he is President. Anyway, IF he was an Indonesian citizen, he
PROBABLY had an Indonesian passport for traveling back and forth from
Indonesia to Hawaii....or so the thinking goes.

I know you don't like World Net Daily, but their timelime discussion of
all the variables in this particular article is sound, I think.
http://www.wnd.com/index.php?pageId=72656
They don't claim he is Indonesian as fact, the article I'm linking to is
not really anti-Obama, just an article that attempts to suss out the
facts and laws of the time. It is complicated, and there is really no
way to know without Obama sharing more of his life, which he has been
reluctant to do. Where did his adoption take place? Was he 5 or 6 when
his mother moved to Indonesia with Barry? Hawaii has open records in
adoption, so why can't we see Obama's adoption papers? These things
matter, but no answers are forthcoming from Obama. If he would just
answer the questions, the speculation would end, but in effect, he is
pleading the 5th. Baarrry, you gots sum 'splainin' to do! <g> There
are a lot of questions that need to be answered, but he still isn't
talking, which is why it drags on and gains more speed.

The whole situation was further aggravated by all kinds of people, all
manners of statements and odd things, like Bill Clinton saying "I think
everybody's got a right to run for President who qualifies under the
Constitution." That seems to be a weird thing to say about a candidate,
don't you think? And Hawaii has several different types of 'birth
certificates' and the one Obama released to the public(even if it is
genuine and not a fake as some claim) is not the long form, not the most
detailed one that you would need to show for something important like
getting a passport. It would seem to me that if my citizenship was
being questioned, I'd provide the document with the most proof of my
birth and history, which in this case would be the Hawaiian long form
that would show name changes, dates, times, etc. Unfortunately, Obama's
own actions, or lack of action, have perpetuated suspicion, not the
greatest thing for a President who promises transparency.

I don't know why y'all are just now learning of this. It was publicized
well before the election. It has been hashed and rehashed ad nauseum
awaiting a response from Obama. Lynda's tag line is indicative of this
whole mess..."Facts do not cease to exist because they are ignored." I
suppose he is hoping that it will go away, and quite frankly, with this
country's short attention span, I'm really surprised that it hasn't.
Funny, just now I see a headline 'Obama Irks Dems By Declaring He Can
Ignore Legislation like Bush Did' LOL...SOP perhaps?

Bev



Lynn Wigglesworth wrote:
I'm pretty much non-political, and not particularly a supporter of
Obama. But I see things like this reported over and over without a
shred of proof. Where did the Indonesian passport rumor start? If
there was even a hint of evidence of that, wouldn't it have come out
by now?


--
"Never expect magic from no where" Baringo (Kenyan) working motto
http://erthnsky.blogspot.com/
EarthNSky Farm, NW Georgia, USA


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