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["Lynn Wigglesworth" <lynnw1366 AT hotmail.com>]

If you recall, there was also a big stink about people accessing Joe the 
Plumber's records. People do things like that.  I assume if there had been 
any juicy information about Obama, we'd have heard. We sure got juicy trash 
about Joe.

The records might say how long Obama's had a US passport, but they don't 
record where you have been. I had a passport in the late 1970's, and 
travelled to several foreign countries...when I came back, they DID NOT 
record where I'd been (i.e. what stamps I had). Remember, everything was 
done by hand and paper then; no global databases. They just recorded that I 
re-entered the country and checked to make sure it was a legit passport.

You get a new passport when the old one expires; I assume most people throw 
the old one away, like old Drivers' Licenses (could you produce your 
Drivers' License from 28 years ago if you needed to prove something?). 
Your passport pages (the stamps, etc.) aren't, or at least weren't back 
then, recorded anywhere, so there probably IS nothing to show. And you 
ABSOLUTELY don't need a 'long form' Birth Certificate to get a passport; 
it's a federal document, so the rules are the same throughout the country. 
All I have is the 'short form', and I've gotten a passport, SS#, voter card, 
etc. It's all the proof I've ever needed that I'm a citizen..I wouldn't even 
know how to get my 'long form' birth certificate....the state only offers 
birth and death certificates.

I think many of these websites make a lot of assumptions, then build a case 
on assumptions.. The WDN says things like " It would have been easier for 
someone to enter Pakistan on an Indonesian passport." It snowballs from that 
to people saying  therefore he MUST have had an Indonesian passport, 
therefore he must have been an Indonesian citizen. I've seen no evidence of 
that, but I did read an article from that era that Americans were warned, 
but not prohibited, from visiting Pakistan in 1981.  I've also looked at 
Philip Berg's stuff. I see nothing that I would call 'evidence'.  As an 
aside, I wonder if Hillary or John McCain, or any of the other candidates 
from 2008 have ever been in Pakistan, and if so, did they mention it?

I don't know why I'm defending Obama, except that all this smacks of a witch 
hunt. People demand a Birth Certificate, and he gives them one, a legitimate 
one that is accepted by the federal government as proof of citizenship, but 
it's not good enough. I don't know if you trust any website, but 
Factcheck.org actually touched and photographed the birth certificate, and 
are convinced that it's real. Hawaiian officials have stated that it's real, 
and that they have the original. But there will never be enough proof for 
some people. There's no point in Obama wasting energy defending himself from 
people like that.

Lynn Wigglesworth
Tioga Co. PA

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "EarthNSky" <erthnsky AT bellsouth.net>
To: "Homestead List" <homestead AT lists.ibiblio.org>
Sent: Tuesday, July 21, 2009 6:58 PM
Subject: Re: [Homestead] Has anyone heard about this?


> Obama traveled to Pakistan in 1981 when he was 20 years old and in
> college. He 'slipped' and disclosed this information during his
> campaign-before that, no one knew about his travels in the Muslim
> world-odd for a Senator who served on the Senate's foreign relations
> committee during a time when we were involved in two wars in that part
> of the world-one of which Pakistan plays a crucial role in. It had not
> been listed in his books or his political bio-he just blurted it out
> when he was talking about foreign policy experience.  The question
> is, and it is a question that Obama has still not answered, is how was
> he able to travel to Pakistan? I have a friend who married a Pakistani
> woman at about that time-early 80's.  He could not even travel there to
> meet her family, even as her husband. Visas were hard to come by if you
> weren't a celebrity, a Moslem, or a member of the press or government
> official. Most people claim that the US forbade travel to Pakistan, I
> don't know about that-I don't think that is true, but I am saying that I
> don't think Pakistan would have allowed him in as an American student.
> Anyway, the conjecture began as to how Obama could have done this and
> why it was not known before.
>
> The Obama people/administration want you to believe that he used his US
> passport for those travels.  It would be a simple matter to make his
> passport pages public and that would nip the whole thing in the bud.
> However, his passport seems to be a closely guarded secret.  Remember
> the hoopla about 3 contract workers accessing his passport back in March
> of 2008?  You never did hear anything about that, what they were looking
> for, or why, other than curiosity, they would have accessed his
> documents.  I say that when information is accessed three times that it
> is more than just curiosity.  Who knew what, when, and why is it still
> under wraps?  Why no outrage of privacy violation or threats of
> prosecution by the 'victim' in this case, President Obama? Why don't the
> workers who breeched security say "I saw the passport and he traveled to
> Pakistan and India and Indonesia on his US passport, or conversely, I
> saw the passport and there were no travels to Pakistan..etc.   Why the
> secrecy?  Where are these people?  When was Obama's US Passport assigned?
>
> Assuming that he did not have a US passport in 1981, the logical answer
> is that he used an Indonesian passport and citizenship for his travels
> as he had previously done while traveling as a teen/pre-teen.  Indonesia
> is the most populous Muslim country in the world, and there would be no
> suspicion about an Indonesian visiting Pakistan.  The military
> government would have quickly granted a Visa to an Indonesian. Most
> people believe that per Indonesian law, Obama became an Indonesian
> citizen when he was adopted by Barry Soetoro. Apparently, there is a law
> that states an adopted child that is 5 or younger automatically becomes
> a Indonesian citizen.  It all just depends technically on when the
> adoption actually happened, when they actually moved back to Indonesia,
> and how long it took the beauracratic process to work.  Some sources
> claim he was 6 at the time and therefore the law would not have been in
> effect, but even so, Soetoro could have still made him an Indonesian
> citizen to ease his way into the country's public schools(Besuki).  At
> that time during the campaign last summer, Obama's website,
> FighttheSmears, did not refute Berg's allegations that he traveled on an
> Indonesian passport, and that blew the door wide open for investigators
> to nit-pick into Obama's past. BTW, last time I checked, that website is
> no more, which is kind of odd considering that the smear continues on,
> even as he is President. Anyway, IF he was an Indonesian citizen, he
> PROBABLY had an Indonesian passport for traveling back and forth from
> Indonesia to Hawaii....or so the thinking goes.
>
> I know you don't like World Net Daily, but their timelime discussion of
> all the variables in this particular article is sound, I think.
> http://www.wnd.com/index.php?pageId=72656
> They don't claim he is Indonesian as fact, the article I'm linking to is
> not really anti-Obama, just an article that attempts to suss out the
> facts and laws of the time.  It is complicated, and there is really no
> way to know without Obama sharing more of his life, which he has been
> reluctant to do.  Where did his adoption take place?  Was he 5 or 6 when
> his mother moved to Indonesia with Barry? Hawaii has open records in
> adoption, so why can't we see Obama's adoption papers? These things
> matter, but no answers are forthcoming from Obama.  If he would just
> answer the questions, the speculation would end, but in effect, he is
> pleading the 5th.  Baarrry, you gots sum 'splainin' to do! <g>  There
> are a lot of questions that need to be answered, but he still isn't
> talking, which is why it drags on and gains more speed.
>
> The whole situation was further aggravated by all kinds of people, all
> manners of statements and odd things, like Bill Clinton saying "I think
> everybody's got a right to run for President who qualifies under the
> Constitution."  That seems to be a weird thing to say about a candidate,
> don't you think?  And Hawaii has several different types of 'birth
> certificates' and the one Obama released to the public(even if it is
> genuine and not a fake as some claim) is not the long form, not the most
> detailed one that you would need to show for something important like
> getting a passport.  It would seem to me that if my citizenship was
> being questioned, I'd provide the document with the most proof of my
> birth and history, which in this case would be the Hawaiian long form
> that would show name changes, dates, times, etc. Unfortunately, Obama's
> own actions, or lack of action, have perpetuated suspicion, not the
> greatest thing for a President who promises transparency.
>
> I don't know why y'all are just now learning of this.  It was publicized
> well before the election.  It has been hashed and rehashed ad nauseum
> awaiting a response from Obama.  Lynda's tag line is indicative of this
> whole mess..."Facts do not cease to exist because they are ignored."  I
> suppose he is hoping that it will go away, and quite frankly, with this
> country's short attention span, I'm really surprised that it hasn't.
> Funny, just now I see a headline 'Obama Irks Dems By Declaring He Can
> Ignore Legislation like Bush Did'   LOL...SOP perhaps?
>
> Bev
>
>
>
> Lynn Wigglesworth wrote:
> > I'm pretty much non-political, and not particularly a supporter of
> > Obama. But I see things like this reported over and over without a
> > shred of proof. Where did the Indonesian passport rumor start? If
> > there was even a hint of evidence of that, wouldn't it have come out
> >  by now?
>
>
> --
> "Never expect magic from no where"  Baringo (Kenyan) working motto
> http://erthnsky.blogspot.com/
> EarthNSky Farm, NW Georgia, USA
>
>
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