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[EarthNSky <erthnsky AT bellsouth.net>]

Moon, You said you had worked side by side with "unpapered Mexicans",
which to me sounds degrading, like they are dogs or something.  Are you
sure they were all Mexicans?  No Guatamalans or Salvadorans?  Let me
ask you this..
Say you are in a big barn full of race horses and you are working with
'immigrants' who speak Spanish(how's that for unlabeling due to race?)
Suppose you hear a group of those immigrants talking about a horse who
appears to be doped.  When you go to tell the barn owner what you have
heard, what do you say?
A. I heard the Hispanics talking of doping allegations?
B. I heard the immigrants who speak Spanish talking of doping allegations.
C.  I heard people talking about doping allegations
D.  I heard that there are doping allegations.
E. I heard the aliens talking about doping allegations.
F. I heard unpapered Mexicans talking about doping allegations.
G. I heard the illegal immigrants talking about doping allegations.
H. None of the above.

Now, if you choose C or D, the next question the owner asks you is going
to be 'what people?'.  If you choose G, that is threatening to the
owner.  If you choose E, the owner will call 911 for you.
  A seems most logical to me, but that would be labeling and
grouping-which you don't like, so perhaps you would say B.?  B just
seems awkward to me.

I am writing this to you in two parts because I wrote the above as a
draft this morning.  This evening, I see that we are having a
conversation concerning Spanish profanities.<G>
Moon, if you are working side by side with someone, how can you claim to
know them if you do not speak their language?  I can vacation in China,
ride the bus with a bunch of Chinese folks, but if I don't understand
them, I am not getting, what was your term, a 'broader experience'?
I know you are ticked at James and probably me right now, but he does
have a point that just traveling around isn't enough to understand and
have a grasp of a cultural situation.  You have to live in it, talk to
it, work with it, and become part of it in whatever way you are allowed
to.  When you said you had a better grasp on these types of things
because you have lived in various places, that is what was interpreted
as being arrogant, because in effect, you are saying that our
experiences don't count.  Yet, we are the ones who interact and live
with these peoples(Hispanic, African American(is that better for you?)
etc. etc.
Well, I'm probably not helping, so I'll shut up.
Oh, and I don't hold anything against you-just figure you are under a
lot of stress or something.

Bev










paxamicus AT earthlink.net wrote:
> I did not mean to twist your words, and if I did, I misunderstood
> you. Please feel free to correct.
>
> All "black people" are not the same. Period, full stop. We are all 
> individuals. Shall I call all poor white southerners "crackers"?  I
>  think not.
>
> The governor of Alaska IS a liar.
>
> I have lived abroad. I have worked side by side with illegal 
> immigrants, and celebrities. I have lived in the north and the south.
>  Yes, my cultural experience is slightly more broad than someone who
>  has spent their whole lives in one place.
>
>
> On Nov 6, 2008, at 12:57 PM, EarthNSky wrote:
>
> > This is not the Moon I knew.  The posts I have seen from you in the
> >  last day or so have shocked me.  You have twisted my words and
> > implied things that I have not even thought of, called me a bigot,
> > called the Governor of Alaska a liar, and now this. I don't know
> > how, nor do I have to time, to answer this post, only to say that I
> > am not substituting the phrase 'black people' for the n- word. In
> > addition, you claim to have a broader cultural experience?  Please.
> >
> >
> > Bev
> >
> > paxamicus AT earthlink.net wrote:
> > > Maybe they haven't down there because people still insist on 
> > > identifying people by colour. Substitute "nigger" for "black
> > > people" and you will see how offensive it is. I am willing to bet
> > > that I, little oil-sucker-downer-finger-on-the-bomb that I am
> > > have had slightly broader experience than you in this matter.
> > >
> > >
> > > On Nov 6, 2008, at 12:15 PM, Clansgian AT wmconnect.com wrote:
> > >
> > > > > > How many PEOPLE? PEOPLE! NOT BLACKS! They, like you, are 
> > > > > > INDIVIDUAL
> > > > > PEOPLE.
> > > > How utterly naive.  If we all just hold hands and sing a chorus
> > > > of "I'd like to buy the world a Coke" then all the racial
> > > > realities of our country will just disappear. 
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--
“Fear is the path to the Dark Side. Fear leads to anger. Anger leads to
hate. Hate leads to suffering.”        Yoda